FBI raids Christian militia group. What’s up with this???


FBI Makes Arrests in Midwest Raids

Mike Householder

AP

ADRIAN, Mich. (March 28) — The FBI said Sunday that agents conducted weekend raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio and arrested at least three people, and a militia leader in Michigan said the target of at least one of the raids was a Christian militia group.

Federal warrants were sealed, but a federal law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said some of those arrested face gun charges and officials are pursuing other suspects.

FBI spokeswoman Sandra Berchtold said there had been activity in two southeast Michigan counties near the Ohio state line. She wouldn’t say whether they were tied to the raids in the other states.

FBI spokesman Scott Wilson in Cleveland said agents arrested two people Saturday after raids in two Ohio towns. A third arrest made in northeast Illinois on Sunday stemmed from a raid Saturday just over the border in northwest Indiana, both part of an ongoing investigation led by the FBI in Michigan, according to a statement from agents in Illinois.

George Ponce, 18, who works at a pizzeria next door to a home raided in Hammond, Ind., said he and a few co-workers stepped outside for a break Saturday night and saw a swarm of law enforcement.

“I heard a yell, ‘Get back inside!’ and saw a squad member pointing a rifle at us,” Ponce said. “They told us the bomb squad was going in, sweeping the house looking for bombs.”

He said another agent was in the bushes near the house, and law enforcement vehicles were “all over.” He estimated that agents took more than two dozen guns from the house.

Michael Lackomar, a spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, said one of his team leaders got a frantic phone call Saturday evening from members of Hutaree, a Christian militia group, who said their property in southwest Michigan was being raided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.



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SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, March 28th at 11:56PM EST (link)

I don’t know the details, but there is another article up on the Detroit Free Press that gives a bit more detail, here.

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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests

 

This needs some scrutiny....

merryj1 Monday, March 29th at 12:25AM EST (link)

There may be some kind of a CAIR link, not to the alleged militia group(s), but serving as FBI informant(s) about the alleged militia. The operative word here is “may;” I don’t have nearly enough information yet to draw my own tentative conclusion, let alone to be passing it on — but there are some good ‘diggers’ on this site (so start digging).

According to one report (might’ve been linked from Drudge), a Muslim militia member in Michigan claimed he received a call for help from another militia-group leader but that he did not comply with the request; then a statement was issued by CAIR, ostensibly to reassure Muslims and urge them to “keep practicing their faith,” ie, ‘in spite of the (alleged) threats.’

I have a problem with any such scenario: A practicing Muslim would not join a Christian militia (according to the FBI report, this or these militia orgs is/are Christian), and a converted Muslim would not likely report Christian activities he’s part of to an Islamist outfit. Something just doesn’t make sense.

Any CAIR connection is troubling, no matter their protestations and pretenses – that organization is very much pro-Islamist, dedicated to seeing “the Koran replac(ing) the Constitution,” and “Sharia as the only law in America;” (see any Daniel Pipes material on CAIR). As CAIR head Ibrahim Hooper put it, “Islam does not seek to be equal to every religion, but to be the only religion.”

These raids, incidentally, seem to have been a joint FBI-AFT-Homeland Security operation. Can anyone say “Janet Napolitano thinks the biggest terrorism threat is from Christians, the American Right, and former military service members?”

Get the facts first

SteveLA (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 7:52PM EST (link)

merryj1

Well seems these folks who were arrested are maybe a few fries short of a happy meal.

From the Detroit Free Press

“Alleged militia members indicted for plotting attack on police”

There is no general case to be made, ether as pro or anti religion, just a bunch of folks who are out on the fringe it would seem. Maybe you can make a case that Big Sister Janet is up to something, but I think most folks would probably think anyone targeting police officers are not good people. Give them a fair trial and then lock them up for a very long time.

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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests

 

Not much scrutiny needed

opendna Monday, March 29th at 7:54PM EST (link)

You’ve confused two different groups, mixed up their ideologies and religious character.

The Hutarees are a Christian millenarian paramilitary which hoped to start a war by assassinating a local cop and ambushing the funeral. The Michigan Militia is a patriot militia preparing for martial law and the suspension of the Constitution. Different groups. The first one has a religious test, the second one doesn’t.

When the Hutarees got raided they asked the Michigan Militia to shelter them from the Feds. The Michigan Militia, quite reasonably, said “hell no! We don’t want to get wrapped into your warped conspiracy by aiding and abetting”. The “Muslim militia member” belonged to the Michigan Militia, not the Hutarees.

 
 

Exactly!!

medamorphus (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 1:31AM EST (link)

“These raids, incidentally, seem to have been a joint FBI-AFT-Homeland Security operation. Can anyone say “Janet Napolitano thinks the biggest terrorism threat is from Christians, the American Right, and former military service members?”

Really?

SteveLA (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 8:22AM EST (link)

Why do you make this assertion? Just because the name Christian appears with this group does not change the behaviors of the group one way or the other, or at least that’s the way it should be.

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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests

Because his statement is true

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 12:50PM EST (link)

The DHS released a report in January of last year stating that Right-Wing extremism was a national security threat. No mention of left-wing extremism and no real mention of Islamic extremism, so the statement is provably true. Janet does believe the greatest threat is from the American Right. It’s official even – all laid out in a report.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 
 

It's that Napolitano and ilk want to demonize Christians

renny (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 8:42AM EST (link)

and the entire middle class of the US.

This is a warning shot across the bow of the tea parties to tell the average Joe not to join a tea party or risk being labeled a right-wing militia member and having his home raided.

Napolitano did issue that report spring a year ago that our biggest terrorist threat is military veterans, anti-abortionists, and evangelical Christians. They have been champing at the bit to find right-wing militias ever since McVeigh and Oklahoma City. Don’t you see the blogs and “news” articles that ALWAYS mention McVeigh, so they can “balance” reports on Muslim jihadists?

The left, stupidly, doesn’t fear the jihadists, looking at them as allies against Israel and the West. But “Christian militias,” they are a real threat to the thugs in DC and their fascist party in Congress.

Frankly, Christians do a good enough job of demonizing themselves

mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 8:46AM EST (link)

by defending wackos like this that Janet could retire.

as do Republicans

conservativecounsel Monday, March 29th at 9:23AM EST (link)

Christians have the same battle as Republicans – the media lumping any negative fringe in with the whole group. Until we are able to define core values for both Christians (politicaly) and Republicans, get the message across, and denounce the fringe – we lose.

Christians should not have core political values.

mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 12:59PM EST (link)

Christians should be concerned about the kingdom of God. That should transcend politics.

Bottom line, politics is about dealing with the masses. Christianity is about dealing with people individually, one at a time. Politics – even conservative politics – is about control in one form or another. Christianity is about personal (not necessarily political) liberty.

5!

leftylurker (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 1:01PM EST (link)

well said

 

Keep preaching it, mbecker.

CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 1:55PM EST (link)

At least on the evangelical side of the American political spectrum, one of the bad seeds that was sown–and watered–during the conservative uprising of the 80s/90s was the conflation of the kingdoms. It was a heady time for many of us as the nascent neo-evangelical movement had grown not only in ranks with young boomers, but also with solid transdenominational publishing, and had become recognized as a significantly distinct movement away from both mainstream liberalism and pietistically ingrown fundamentalism. To then find ourselves, with our young families, sitting on top of a massive piece of the political power pie for the first time as well, was simply to good for many to pass up.

The impossible algorithm for the politically power-hungry Christian–or church–to solve is, how can the kingdom of God, which not only the Scripture but ~1700 years of history have repeatedly shown to necessarily be ruled differently than the kingdom of this world, be advanced by political means, when political power must aim to attract a majority but the preaching of the Gospel of Christ by definition frequently divides and drives away all but a minority. Only one of the two means of advancement is ever left intact, and too frequently for churches the message of the Cross has been the first casualty.

Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)

soli Deo gloria

Kowalski

CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 2:07PM EST (link)

1st line should have “American theological spectrum” lest it ironically contradict the entire comment.

Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)

soli Deo gloria

 
 

Seeing as Jesus Sacrificed Himself For All Mankind

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 4:01PM EST (link)

Your statement makes no sense. To be Christian is to be poltically involved. As a huge majority of people in this country are Christians, would you have them all stop voting? That would allow the evil of Socialism to take hold and make the lives of hundreds of millions of people in this country worse – far worse. Is that Christian? I think not.

Live as a Christain, vote as a person to maximize freedom and liberty. You do not have to conflate the two if doing so means you subject yourself to groups whose rhetoric does not match the message of Christ. Although he we known to get a little angry himself on a few occassions. Remember the money-lenders?

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Misread much?

mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 4:18PM EST (link)

I didn’t say or imply that Christians should not be involved in politics. Nor did I say or imply that values resulting from a relationship with Christ should not effect one’s worldview or politics.

The OP said “Until we are able to define core values for both Christians (politicaly)…”

My point, apparently not clearly made, is simply that “WE” don’t define the core values of Christianity. They were very well defined by Jesus and communicated clearly – to those who have an ear to hear and an eye to see – by the writers of the New Testament.

The problem in Christianity today – and for the last 2010 years or so – is “WE”.

That said, the OP also indicated that Christians should denounce wackos like this “militia group”, and on that point I agree 200%.

Misread all the time

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 6:03PM EST (link)

I’ll go back and have another read. It could be me.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 
 
 
 
 

Home Raided? Because I am a member of a Tea Party

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 12:53PM EST (link)

Maybe because I live in Texas and know local law enforcement, but that sure as heck is not going to happen here. Raiding a group that has ties to terrorism – sure. Raiding a person because they are a member of the Tea Party? Down here in Texas we have a name for that. It’s called a really stupid idea.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 

I'm not defending whakos, but I don't even know

renny (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 9:00AM EST (link)

who these supposed militias are and to call them “Christian” is a pejorative in itself today. Academics call people of faith “Christianists,” like jihadists. Would you prefer they call them right-wing extremist militias? That’s the default setting.

But the US is 78% Christian, according to church membership. It should be self defeating for the left to attack Christians, because if they voted en banc, they could elect a monolithic political party across the entire nation. That hasn’t stopped Sears and Target from trying to eliminate “Merry Christmas” as store greetings each season until they are embarrassed into a retreat.

The left wants to demonize the “average” American, scare such away from pol. involvement, and opposing little o and his henchmen in DC.

If you don’t see the media spin behind these raids, you must think they are also after Atheist militias or Shi’ite militias, the latter of which really exist.

a problem of militant identity politics

opendna Monday, March 29th at 8:08PM EST (link)

The Hutarees declared themselves a Christian army, relied on religious tests for membership, drew on Christian symbolism and texts, and then planned terrorist attacks using some kind of Christian millenarian prophecy. That’s the box: Christianity was as core to their ideology and Islam is to Hamas.

IMHO, the talk about a “Chrisitan militia” actually *protects* both mainstream Christians and mainstream militias from being painted with the same brush as the Hutarees. Christians can say “violence isn’t Christ-like” and patriot militias can say “they were a cult”; both groups can say “we aren’t like those nuts”. This certainly serves to discourage mergers of religious and paramilitary groups, but I’m ok with that. Theocracy never sat well with me.

Who cares what they call themselves

SteveLA (Diary) Monday, March 29th at 8:11PM EST (link)

People who target police in the name of anything are Terrorists….pretty much full stop.

Note to those defending Terrorists because they self identify as “Christians”….when in a hole, stop digging.

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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests