Remember the flap over the “nuclear option”? You’ll love this from Politico.
A year ago, Barack Obama was elected to bring change to America. But his efforts to transform Washington are being stymied by one of the capital’s oldest of political traditions: the Senate filibuster. Ten months into Obama’s presidency, Democrats have passed just one major piece of legislation, February’s stimulus package.
But from judicial and executive branch nominations to health care, labor and financial reform, the very threat of the filibuster and other obstructionist techniques by Senate Republicans has stopped President Obama’s ambitious political agenda in its tracks.
Reforming the way Washington operates is hardly the sexiest of topics, but from a policy and even a political perspective, there are few more important issues on which Democrats should be focusing their energy. Quite simply, the filibuster has become the single tool that is undercutting everything Obama and the Democrats were elected to achieve.
Didn’t take long did it.
The real difference is that Republicans wanted to stop the filibuster of judicial and cabinet level nominees. I happen to still support that. The Democrats want to stop filibusters period.
I know I should not be amazed by open demonstrations of hypocrisy from the Democrats but this one, this soon, surprises me.
Daniel Horowitz
Neil Stevens
Steve Maley
Jake Walker
it's the usual double standard
bk (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 9:38AM EST (link)Democratic filibusters are an important Constitutional tool to protect the minority from being steamrolled by the majority, much like civil rights laws protect blacks, gays, women, etc. from the obvious hatred of the evil rich white Republicans.
Republic filibusters are an outrageous attempt at obstruction by the “party of ‘no’” who can’t win elections and are just using loopholes to stymie the will of the people.
He gave it away in the final sentence.
Flagstaff (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 6:23PM EST (link)(My emphasis added.)
If anything is undemocratic, it would be something Republican.
Filibusters for Democrats only!
And the Politico claims to be unbiased. LOL. Lame Stream Media.
I have been wondering why the Libtards who call the BIG fat hEaD show keep complaining that Republicans are obstructing them from doing what Democrats want to do. Now it’s clear.
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964
What makes the article even more stupid
Darin_H (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 9:59AM EST (link)is that the democrats have a FILIBUSTER PROOF MAJORITY.
A visionary coward says that anger can be power, as long as there’s a victim on TV – Flat Top, Goo Goo Dolls
Remarks on the Fillibuster proff majority.
twally (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:11PM EST (link)Haha Oh so true.
So this shows that even some democrats in question favor no health reform. Or personally makes sense to me aim to be like the recent John McCain who is a liberal conservative who used to be a member of the democrat party.
Everything sways Republican sooner or later. Even the majority of presidents on the past were republicans.
The farther left the liberals politically show over time and moderates allow, the more right the majority public lean and the farther right the republicans counter.
Not quite, as the Republicans discovered a few years back.
The_Gadfly (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:03AM EST (link)Yeah, we never had 60 Rs, but even at 57 there were still enough squishes that at times it was difficult to get even a simple majority approval for moving forward. The Ds now face the same problem.
Personally, I blame Senator Byrd. He came up with the two track system they currently use. In the old days, mounting a filibuster meant actual work. Oh, you could read the phone book from the floor of the Senate as part of your filibuster, but you actually had to be on the floor reading the phone book. But Byrd came up with the idea of the two track system where all the filibuster stuff gets parked on the inactive track so the Senate could continue to function. The old way took stamina and ran the very real risk of alienating people whose support you were likely to need later. It could block bad ideas, but needed to be used sparingly, so it was primarily used to block really bad ones. The new way is simply obstructionist.
Wish I could remember where
gunnerbs (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 10:21AM EST (link)but the other day I saw an article in a MSM publication that was advocating changing filibuster rules to only 56 or 57 Senators. Then he lamented that it takes 2/3 majority to change Senate rules.
Dang, pesky, minority party protection.
I start with the premise that NO ONE has a right to my Life, Liberty, or Property. Beyond that I’m open to discussion.
———————————
When you send a contribution to the candidate you support, send a copy of the check, or at least a note to his or her opponent, telling them why your money didn’t go there!
Mbecker, Gotta agree with you here
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 10:31AM EST (link)If a duck walks like a hypocrite and quacks like a hypocrite, then it’s a hypocritical duck.
I also agree with the distinction you made between up or down votes on appointees (those who fill positions) and legislation (the actual work product of those who filled the positions and the administration that picked them).
However, I do wish that there were more actual filibusters, ala “Mr. Smith goes to Washington” instead of the threat serving as a defacto filibuster.
And LibRick, I absolutely agree with you.
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:12PM EST (link)Filibusters should be filibusters and should take up real time on the Senate floor.
LibRick
makemyday (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:15PM EST (link)Are you sure you are a liberal and not a LINO?
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
LINO...Well that's new
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:50PM EST (link)I pretty much have liberal views. However, on guns, abortion, and American tradition, I lean to the right. But I’m definitely one of those “bleeding hearts!”
Outed ;) nt
mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:52PM EST (link)usque ad finem
Lots of y'all really liked that nuclear option when it was ours.
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 10:44AM EST (link)There’s a good rule in politics: If the enemy is in range, so are you. Every new crop of elected and appointed officials has all these brave “new” ideas but they’ve never thought about what the other guy might do with that new toy. We might be about to find out; the other guys don’t just talk about this stuff for mental exercise.
In Vino Veritas
Maybe better to get this out in the open and resolved
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:04AM EST (link)Right now, the Republicans play by an unwritten “bipartisan” rulebook when they are in charge and the Democrats play by an unwritten “one-party” rulebookwhen they are in charge, with the shifting arguments that bk observed above.
If the Democrats go nuclear on judicial appointments and cabinet officials, it will be a hard pill to swallow – but then our folks will be able to play by the same rules because they will be “written”.
Just like the Republicans should be insisting that Pelosi’s changes in House practice be codified (rather than her just ignoring them), so that they can do the same when they get in power. Otherwise you’ll here the lying bleating about how the Republicans are trampling established procedure, etc if they try to behave like Pelosi.
And yes, there is a definite danger that the Democrats could effect their one-party state this time around with these changes, But their misteps to date have somewhat reduced that probablility – or at least given us a chance in 2010 to keep us from going over the cliff and push the pendulum back toward the right.
In brief, better that we get more in writing and less “comity” given that only Republicans play the comity game. Otherwise, a second pendulum swing to the Democrats (if the Republicans get aother swing first) will be fatal because they won’t foul up the next time for sure.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
I don't think Art is
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:23AM EST (link)lying or bleating. From my read, he is pointing out the consequences of a short-sighted strategy. In some of your post it appears you are in agreement.
You misread me if you thought I was saying that Art was "bleating"
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:32AM EST (link)Art is telling it straight; I fully agree that when the enemy is in range of your guns, vice versa.
It’s primarily the MSM and punditocracy – and lots of bloggers and lots of personal acquaintancesw – who speak out of both sides of their mouth, depending on which side is in charge. Which is what bk was implying above, if I read him correctly.
Which is why you and leftylurker are my two favorite RSers on the left, because you both try to view things from principle and consequence and long-term rather than ther prevalent practice of too many (on both sides of the right-left divide) going for tactical advantage and demonizing opposition.
(That said, at least from my vantage point and what I read, the left is a significantly violator at present. Won’t try to go back in history – doesn’t really matter at this point anyway.)
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
thanks for the clarification
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:04PM EST (link)You’re always straight up so I was initially a bit confused by your post. And, you are correct that the left is the significant violator…but, after all, they’re in power and more focused on keeping that power than helping America….. Status Quo.
Won't matter whether it is written or not, they'll say the same things
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:29AM EST (link)and the stupid old men will still mutter about comity. I don’t know the answer, but I know we have to find another kind of candidate and operative; the “hail fellow well met” types have let our Party and our Nation nearly to destruction.
Interestingly, Palin talks a bit about the problem as it is reflected in her relations with the McCain Campaign staff; the only thing those people were interested in was the next job. I’ve seen it too. A disturbing number of the bright young lads and lasses that Murkowski brought in with him were talking about a lobbying contract before they had their desk arranged.
The Democrats on the other hand live in a political culture. First, they have the bureaucracy where they have little wannabe directors, commissioners, and secretaries from clerk and janitor on up. Then they have their whole shadow government of think tanks, unions, law firms, lobbying firms, and non-profits.
I’m not advocating the shadow government approach, but we have to have a way to recruit candidates, appointees, and operatives that can actually run a government and aren’t just compelled to be liked by the adversaries and the media. It really is OK to be virulently hated so long as it is the right people that hate you. Sometimes I think our Republican officeholders get confused about who the right people are.
In Vino Veritas
Of course we have to clean out those of the old guard who can't change
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:43AM EST (link)…and follow Cold Warrior’s advice to gain more control of party structures – and elect more conservatives, we hopefully can get new blood into Congressional leadership and clean out the “mosquito swamps” before another season of Potomac Fever claims them as victims.
The lesson of 1994 is that you need to move quickly or get captured. We didn’t move quickly enough to do enough of a housecleaning (or actually, a better metaphor is to sell the house and downsize permanently – the house didn’t get sold).
And of course, the whole political infrastructure that you’ve talked about that preserves leftist power such that each swing of the pendulum moves the tidal line further up the beach (to mix metaphors) – which is why looking over the past 80 years that we’ve seen such a net shift to the left/ expanding government despite several conservative countercoups that haven’t had the staying power of the leftward advances.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
I count four counter-revolutionary movements since FDR.
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:14PM EST (link)The ’48 Republican Congress’ clipping of communist union wings with Taft-Hartley; you can get a tear in a union goon’s eye over Taft-Hartley even today. The anti-communism of both Republicans and conservative Democrats in the mid-fifties that kept them under some control and throw in the Landrum-Griffin Amendments to the National Labor Relations Act which further addressed both union communism and corruption. Even though the left attacked him like he was Attilla, Nixon was pretty much Democrat lite and then his fall turned the Country over to the Left until the next counter-revolution in Reagan’s election. Unfortunately, Reagan had to deal with the Congress that was the legacy of Nixon’s fall so in order to face the USSR and re-arm, he had to let them spend a lot of money and grow social programs. Then we get another D-lite in GHWB except in foreign affairs Then the left takes over again. Until the Gingrich Revolution. I think the pivotal event was the failure of the government shut down and it failed because of fecklessness on the Republican side and new, innovative strategy on the D side. For the first time we saw Alinsky/Union tactics at the National Party level; they used the “virtual strike” strategem of the big public employee unions on the Republicans and they not only caved but ran scared ever after. Never again were they willing to confront the Ds on smaller government, never. Then GWB finishes the capitulation with his “compassionate conservatism.” The wave of conservatism in the res publica still ran strong and we controll the Congress too, but the officeholder were so scarred from the shutdown and the impeachment debacle that they just went on a spending spree and let the Democrats have one too. And here we are on the verge of becoming the USSA.
In Vino Veritas
Regarding that Republican "fecklessness"
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:40PM EST (link)I would like to think it was “Potamac Fever” that infected Gingrich and crew rather than inherent weakness of American politicians.
If electoral office means you can’t persevere and carry out a conservative pruning of the federal government back to its delegated sphere of action, then we’re at best just engaging in a prolonged rear guard action against inevitable Federal supremacy.
On the other hand, if it was Potomac Fever, then perhaps we can find an antidote the next time around. And Cold Warrior and others here at RedState I think are coming up with that.
And if we don’t soon stop or fracture that Federal snowball rolling down the hill, it will gather too much snow before much longer.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
Oh C'mon
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:35PM EST (link)You have Heritage, Cato, etc. You also have lobbying firms and some compelling media figures. I suspect that you must know that there is actually a Republican “political culture.”
Conservative candidates will emerge, they will be vetted and they will be contenders. You’ve been around long enough to know that the pendulum always swings.
Art is talking about something much larger than a few non-profits
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:51PM EST (link)He’s talking about government bureaucracy positions and government-funded groups & consultant contracts – whereas most Republicans play Cincinatus when the other party takes over the reins. Not to mention that too many Republican adminstrators leave Democratic holdovers in place who (no surprise) undermine changes.
If you’ve followed Art here for a while, he’s outlined this multiple times; this “shadow government” structure is not symmetrical but definitely tilted toward Democrats (and more particularly big-government advocates). This is one of the long-term difficulties with keeping government limited.
And it’s risky to argue from past history that “the pendulum always swings” – Marxists by definition don’t believe that, and when they take full harge, it usually takes bloodshed to dislodge them. But again, whether the Marxists in today’s Washington will go all the way to make a move for one-party rule this time around remains to be seen.
The important thing is that they’re capable and ideologically willing to try to stop the pendulum – so we need to keep alert – without becoming unhinged.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
So, CT
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:31PM EST (link)by your post at least I’m not a Marxist!
My view is that the Republican party is healthy and will regain power. The media (Liberal if you wish to go there) likes the narrative of a conservative demise. It sells ratings and papers.
I do think the pendulum will swing. I think that is already happening. In that sense, it puts me in a weird position arguing that conservative ideology will gain traction, and sooner than many think.
I’m a Lib, yet,sometimes I think I’m more hopeful about conservative prospects than many conservatives.
LibRick you Marxist! ;^)
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:51PM EST (link)Had too, sorry.
Sorry to hear about your families health problems. Will keep you and your’s in my prayers.
Glad to have you back, the trolls have been destroying your good name.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Thanks Aaron..
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 2:02PM EST (link)for your support. Actually no trolls at all. You guys keep a very sharp eye on that…believe me I know!
so true Achance
kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:25PM EST (link)I wouldn’t necessarily want a conservative version of that ridiculous A-hole Grayson. But I sure DO want some people in the congress who understand that the Democrats are not their “dear friends” and who are not afraid of giving them a bloody nose.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Here! Here!
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:09AM EST (link)When jerking with the rules you would think that one would consider the long term ramifications. Sadly, it has devolved into a 2 year plan.
You're getting to the issue of integrity
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:24AM EST (link)Which too many have abandoned in the political field.
I see a correlation between long-term thinking and principles (integrity) vs. short-term, tactical (expediency) thinking – if we take a more high-minded view.
Or how Art phrased it if you want to get gut-level about it.
The only way to evade karma in politics, the consequence of short-term thinking – is to permanent change the political landscape by annihilating the opposition.
And although some of this may be partisan bias on my part, I really do see a contingent n key Democratic leadership positions (especially Pelosi) who do want to reach for that ring of permanent rule.
While I’m a bit more confident they won’t succeed than I was six months ago -as I see more resistence – I don’t know if these folks will raise the ante to go for it all now, or settle for incremental change – pushing the boundaries to minimize the next pendulum swiing to the right,
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
They almost have to go "all in" now and try to pass
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:36AM EST (link)their whole agenda. Failure on healthcare now will doom all their grandiose schemes just as it did for Bill and Hill. And backlash from passing healthcare will be so great that they will have to mute the opposition with Card Check and Cap and Trade. If I were in the House D leadership right now, I’d start making very ominous noises about Card Check and if it looked like they could pass it, every business of any size in America would bow down before the crocodile in hopes of being the last one eaten.
In Vino Veritas
Which is where we'll now see what mettle our opponents are made of
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:03PM EST (link)For the first few months, they had essentially an uncontested field to carry out the coup, intimitating many of the Washington, lobbyist, and large corporate powers. It’s easy to lead the Wehrmacht into the Rhineland if your opponents are like France and Britain.
And Obama has always had others sweep the fields ahead of him, so he has been tested until the last few months.
But now that resistance is developing, we’ll have to see what Obama and crew (and their Congressional allies will do). Nancy seems the most Stalinist in mindset; don’t know in the push whether Reid and Obama are equally ruthless. Reid is the weakest, and Obama is a cryptic factor.
Yes, the Ayers and others behind the scenes (and the Clintons in their way) are ruthless and know the Alinksy and Lenin playbook, but whether they will be given full charge remains to be seen – after all, Obama is a flawed vessel as a revolutionary, he wants to be liked and admired as well as to get his way.
And we also don’t know how far they really are willing to go, or whether they are misreading their assets. For instance, they have had the unprecedently allegiance of most of the media, but they may overreach with that and push too hard, too fast.
So again, we don’t know their competence now they’re inside and on the throne rather than outside the palace walls.
Or world events may upset the apple cart – since they can’t control those players – which is one of the major reasons (but not the only one) – ideological sympathies are another) they’re in such an appeasement mode – to try to buy time to keep foreign affairs quiet while they try to ram through an irreversible domestic agenda.
But in not underestimating the current Washington gang, we must not overestimate them either and throw in the towel either.
I really think we’re going to come to the knife’s edge of whether we stay free or whether tyrrany prevails and don’t know which way we will land. Again, external realities may upset the plans of both sides.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
Healthcare first was a mistake caused, I believe, by UAW
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:26PM EST (link)and other union greed to get H&W liabilities off their plate and on the taxpayers’ plate. They should have done Card Check first and no business interest in the Country would have dared oppose them on anything else. Doing healthcare first and Republcan delay has given time to organize oppostion to Comrade Obama. We’ll see; it will be a close run thing.
In Vino Veritas
You could have a point here
makemyday (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:34PM EST (link)Prior to GM’s bankruptcy, GM negotiated a deal with the UAW to take on the health care for retirees. At first this looked good on paper to get health care costs off GM’s books. Part of the agreement was that GM would fund the medical coverage with a lump sum payout to the UAW. A second funding was requested by the UAW sometime later as the original agreed to amount was deemed not sufficient. Now it appears that with the money GM has given the UAW for health care is not enough and they want more from us.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
That GM deal was not done in good faith by either party.
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:48PM EST (link)All it was was foreplay to either go bankrupt under a Republican and pitch retirement and retiree H&W to the taxpayers or “work with” a Democrat to pitch the whole liability to the taxpayers. UAW won and not only got the liability off the company’s back, they own the company now.
In Vino Veritas
There is enough blame to go around
makemyday (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:19PM EST (link)I can’t argue against GM dumping health care onto UAW and wholeheartedly supported the move but why UAW would accept it is beyond me. I believe had that been successfully done that others would have followed suit and used it as a roadmap to get company sponsored health care out.
I believe that company sponsored health care is wrong to begin with. It started during WWII when wage and price controls were enacted. Companies had a shortage of workers and could not offer cash incentives to get workers to choose one company over another. Non-cash incentives (benefit packages) were used to entice workers to join a company. Over the years it has been widely accepted that offering benefits to employees was required and even mandated by law in some cases as it was thought as being a right. IMO benefit packages is just another unfunded entitlement. It started as a simple understanding between an employer and employee that this was wink wink payment for work in kind and has evolved into government protected entitlements.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
Particularly agree it will be a "close-run thing"
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:02PM EST (link)Agree that Card Check would have been match point. But they took their eyes off the ball momentarily.
And they didn’t ram through ObamaCare as soon as they wanted, so they’ve chewed up alot of time and capital. It at least looks plausible that on healthcare they might not win, or might have a “face-saving win” or end up with a Pyrrhic victory – or they might win if key Republicans once again turn feckless again to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.
So we have a better chance than it looked back in the spring.
Though a lot – economy/jobs, foreign events – can effect the best calculations, not to mention the truly unpredicted event. And a nuclear detonation could run the day for a lot of us.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
I thought it was a done deal back in the spring, really did.
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:16PM EST (link)No matter how proud and brave the Tea Party and Founder, etc. contingent may be, private individtuals and small business people cannot overcome the might of the US if the US has the will to prevail. In the spring, it seemed that Comrade Obama had the entire big business community and what’s left of production and manufacturing as well as the private sector interest groups in the Country cowed, literally rocked back on their heels and scared to death of what the Government might do to them next.
The Tea Parties, Glenn Beck’s revelations, a few spines being discovered in Congress bought time and showed that you could oppose the regime. Then we started to get the money and organization of the big interests back in to oppose socialized medicine. We’ll just have to wait and see.
In Vino Veritas
The irony is that PDS may have slowed down the railroad beyond the critical point
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 2:32PM EST (link)Showing the power of celebrity and the axiom that in that realm, even bad publicity is usually a good thing.
Sarah went and talked about “death panels” in her Facebook page, and if the media had ignored it, probably few outside of her followers woudl have paid attention, and it would have sunk beneath the wave like all the other efforts hitherto to wake people up about ObamaCare.
But no, our leftist friends decided to broadcast it all around the blogging world and then all over the MSM and tried to ridicule it as a way of trying to drive another stake in her heart – which was a critical error that may have tipped the balance. They just had to pick up that tar baby.
Because, what happened instead is that the media picked up on that phrase “death panels” and raised people’s level of attention. Unfortunately for the left (and fortunately for us) that phrase “death panels” inadvertently was one of those advertising coups that happened to be what grabbed people’s attention and kept it and crystallized their previously inchoate fears about ObamaCare – and proved rather impervious to the attempts to debunk it – and indeed then the smoke made more people look for the fire and suddenly people started paying attention to the rest of the bill and started listening to the criticisms, and the cork popped and the genie got out of the bottle.
And this happened right about summer recess so people started coming out to town meetings and started to raise a ruckus (and the left thugs could help themselves), and the ObamaCare timeline went south for the Democrats.
This wouldn’t be the first time in history that an obsession ruined an otherwise impregnible plan.
Of course, the Marxists may stil regroup and they’ve still got a big numbers advantage, but at least we’ve got a fight going on now rather than abject surrender.
Finding our Henry V would be a nice touch. The anti-Newt, if you will.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
And this is by no means advocating her for elected office
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 2:38PM EST (link)But to get lightning to strike, someone has to be the one standing upright in the field during a thunderstorm.
Sarah at least puts herself in that locale. That is good for a mobilizer and celebrity rouser of the base – not so good for someone running for higher office.
And better she should capture some of those celebrity bucks instead of it all going to leftists like Al Gore, etc.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
Can't deny that her "death panel" statement was probably the turning point. nt
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 3:08PM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
Maybe the mods can, like, build a little shrine around this post
CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 3:25PM EST (link)Or are you just not feeling well, Art? Don’t worry, I’ll never tell.
Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)
soli Deo gloria
You must've missed his post about a week and a half ago
Finrod (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:53PM EST (link)It was At Least Sarah Palin Listens to Me and made the top of the Recommended Diaries list.
Many people were astonished.
Personally, I’m glad to have him on our side; we may disagree and butt heads occasionally, but we’re both fighting on the same side and for the same things.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
What a despicable point we have reached.
nessa (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:13PM EST (link)To think that politicians in America have come to blackmail the entire population with their legislation. We are in the midst of a political coup, it will be the economy saying “Et tu Brute?”
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Contributor to Unified Patriots
teh twitter
On one front
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:48AM EST (link)you seem to agree that integrity and long term thinking is an important value. But then you move into advocacy for rules that codify a short term perspective.
I would argue that the only way to to evade karma in politics is to champion good karma, fueled by one’s integrity. I feel that’s a tenable long term strategy.
Not advocacy - just don't agree with a suicide pact
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:29PM EST (link)A republican government like ours need adherence to unwritten codes and traditions that all parties agree to and that they successfully transmit to the next generation – changes to which are incremental by consensus. I’m referring to procedures and the “rules of the game”.
So as far as the “nuclear option” – I am sympathetic to the arguments that there shouldn’t be filibusters – but it needs to be codified one-way or the other so that it’s not just one-sided (“Fillibusters for me but not for thee”). The bigger problem is when to start – after all, after Bush had so many nominees blocked (both judicial and executive appointments) it doesn’t seem right to simply lie down.
The resolution I think would be to pass the “nuclear option” now (if that’s the way that most want to go) but make it effective after the 2010 elections – that at least gets us off the dime of immediate tactical gameplaying.
And if you were referring my Pelosi comment – the issue is that Pelosi preserves that form of the rules while violating their contents, as in reading the laws, allowing debate, and many other blatant abrogations that are ignored. That is a huge problem, because you know that if the Republicans get into power, all these violations will become “never happened” and the Republicans will be charges with “unprecedented abuses of power, ad naseum if they do the same.
So in frustration, I was saying that if the rules are going to get violated routinely, just do away with the hypocrisy and change the rules – so that both sides can do the same things. But that’s not going to happen because the whole intent is hypocrisy.
Though again, I still advocate my first paragraph as to how things should be.
So what do you do if the high road is a suicide pact? How do you deal with someone like Pelosi who wants to be dictator when she’s in power and play victim if the Republicans get a House majority again when most of the media will play along? (And if you don’t agree with the formulation of this last question, please tell me where I’m erring.)
It’s a real conundrum, one that comes up in moral ethics all the time in various forms: personal purity vs. societal evils.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
You know CT
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:07PM EST (link)you really make a convincing argument. But it’s predicated on the assumption that those in power (maybe your guys) will vote the will of the people.
I like it that even with the Dems in charge and with a majority cannot run roughshod over the will of the people.
It’s funny, at this point I’m arguing for the Republicans. Maybe I fore see a change down the road and I think you might see that long term view too.
I would hope
makemyday (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:13AM EST (link)that we all understand that the nuclear option denegrates us to the tyranny of the majority (democracy) as opposed to a concensus of majority (republic). When the majority party says that the will of the people really mean a majority of people and not all of the people. The minority party in a republic represents the will of the people who are not in the majority. Whoever is in power at any given time must be brought back to the notion that they govern at the behest of all citizens and not just those that voted them in. They must be held accountable to the Constitution and not just the will of the majority. Individuals are represented in Washington, not groups.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
While I agree Art, I also am a firm believer in the idea
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:18PM EST (link)that electionsshould have consequences. Thus, I favor a time limit to move nominees out of committee to the floor for an up or down vote. No more “Senate holds” by an individual, usually unnamed, Senator on a nomination and no filibustering the final up-or-down vote.
I still favor the filibuster on legislation, but I think they should be “real” filibusters.
I wonder what all the GOP's "bipartisan" "moderate" "compromise" fans of the Gang of 14 have to say now? [nt]
Martin Knight (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 10:49AM EST (link)Precisely, what he said. (n/t)
Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:03AM EST (link).
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Gang of 14 are ducking for cover.
antisocial (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:00PM EST (link)..
Obama Doctrine – Boot On The Throat
—————————–
What is to be done?
——————————
No. You can’t – Moe Lane
——————————
The Emperor has no clothes!!!
There is no cover to duck behind when a nuke goes off. (nt)
The_Gadfly (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:19AM EST (link)There is a story in my town.
antisocial (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 8:48AM EST (link)When a pigeon is confronted by a cat what does it do? It closes eyes to make the cat disappear. What happens then is very logical. Only If the pigeon knew logic and reality.
Obama Doctrine – Boot On The Throat
—————————–
What is to be done?
——————————
No. You can’t – Moe Lane
——————————
The Emperor has no clothes!!!
hijack librick
mom2oneson (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:59AM EST (link)It’s good to see you!
I miss your posts when your not around.
Thanks mom!
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:11PM EST (link)Family health issues have taken up all of my time. But things are better now. so I have some time to post.
LibRick, second the motion. Glad to see you.
penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:22PM EST (link)I know Janis will be pleased too. Folks here care about the members. Take care.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
Thanks penguin
LibRick (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:09PM EST (link)That’s what makes this site so great!
Yes, janis is very glad to see LibRick again.
janis (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 8:44PM EST (link)Sorry that you’ve had family health issues and I’m glad that things have righted themselves to some degree. Was asking folks not long ago where you went and no one knew. So it’s lovely that you have walked in the door again for a good chat.
Have also had family issues, some health issues, and, wouldn’t you know, several vehicles here on the farm picked this time of the year to have heart attacks and hissy fits. Life, it’s a wonderful thing when it’s not so stressful that you feel threatened every day!
So, I won't ask you if you've finished it.
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 8:46PM EST (link)Figured you had something going on.
In Vino Veritas
Janis, I left the farm 30 years ago but still remember...
nessa (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 9:04PM EST (link)…all the machinery breaks down during planting or harvest. Never in-between. Good luck and keep driving on! This Nation needs ever Farmer we can lay our hands on!
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Contributor to Unified Patriots
teh twitter
Janis...
LibRick (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:49PM EST (link)Thanks for the nice post. I look forward to you and so many others here holding my feet to the fire defending my liberal views.
And wouldn’t you know, just when you don’t need it, everything breaks just when you don’t need it. I totally know what you went through. My honey-do list is starting to look like the national deficit!
Before or after ObamaCare and Cap-and Trade pass?
civil truth (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:55PM EST (link)Usually around Christmas time we end up having to give an unexpected Christmas present to our house.
One year it was the water main, for instance, another year the oven failed when we started to cook the Christmas turkey…
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
I hear you CT
LibRick (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:18PM EST (link)Our personal Christmas gift, not by choice, is a new cook top. Yeah, it broke just in time for the holidays.
Not as concerned about ObamaCare but Cap and Trade could turn our utility bill into a Cadillac health insurance payment.
P.S. My keyboard is so broken …all the left keys stick…need to fix that too!
I forgot: this year's "unexpected" gift is a new kitchen microwave -nt-
civil truth (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:42PM EST (link)The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
My first microwave lasted 14 years.
janis (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:59PM EST (link)Thereafter, each one lasted no more than 4 years at the outside. And each one featured ever more functions and was harder to operate. To this day, I have yet to be able to set the clock on the latest one and have it keep accurate time. The most satisfactory appliance I have bought seem to be the battery-operated wall clocks in different rooms in the house.
Just to be on the safe side, though, I’m not saying that out loud around any of them.
Yes, LibRIck, I've taken to not mentioning
janis (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:40PM EST (link)their age when discussing the appliances around the house. Afraid they’ll hear me and give up and die, too, just like my transmission in my 6 year old car with less than 50,000 miles on it. That was two weeks ago while enjoying the family sinus infection festival and shortly after the tractor’s hydraulics went belly up.
I blame George Bush…..
Blame GB....Touche!
LibRick (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 3:33PM EST (link)What, not Obama and us Libruls? Hate to see you lose any frequent “FOX” points on that statement but I”ll try to make it up and get our guys to exempt you from our Librul plan to destroy all conservative transmissions.
Check’s in the mail — as soon as it clears TARP.
Well, Rick, I figure that with everything
janis (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:08PM EST (link)that O and the Librulz are busily screwing up this very moment, I’ll have innumerable opportunities to Pin the Blame on the Donkey. Just name a subject, anything from warts to crabgrass to CNN— all the Donks’ fault. And that doesn’t even count how expensive cat and dog food have become, nor does it speak to the issue of those wretched phone tree things that you get when you’re sick and trying to make a doctor’s office appointment.
The sinus infection was more enjoyable than that last one. And I blame Obama……. ( Part One of 2 Trillion)
Yep, it's GWB's fault for not embracing AGW that my snowblower won't start
Achance (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 3:46PM EST (link)with all this Climate Change laying all over my driveway today.
In Vino Veritas