McCain may get primaried…


Actually he will. There are a couple of guys who’ve already announced. Chris Simcox and Jim Deakin. Simcox is marginally well known as a founder of The Minuteman Civil Defense Corps and has some baggage that he will bring to the primary. He also has the ability to raise some funds outside of Arizona. Deakin is basically unknown to all but his immediate family and hasn’t got two cents and can’t raise much more than about a nickle.

Today, John Fund reports that JD Hayworth is thinking about running. I got the clip from NRO and try as I might I couldn’t find it at the WSJ.com.

He may have been his party’s presidential nominee last year, but John McCain could still have to endure a primary challenge from the right when he runs for a fifth term in the U.S. Senate next year. Conservative radio talk show host J.D. Hayworth, who was a Republican member of Congress for a dozen years until losing his seat in 2006, is mulling running against Mr. McCain.

Mr. McCain has always had a tenuous relationship with the grassroots of his party in Arizona. Many GOP voters remain genuinely angry with him for cosponsoring a comprehensive immigration bill with the late Senator Ted Kennedy in 2005. A new Rasmussen Reports poll finds that 61% of Arizona Republicans think Mr. McCain has lost touch with the base of his party. In a general election, however, Mr. McCain remains a shoo-in since his approval rating among moderates is a striking 64% and he also wins approval of a surprising 41% of liberals.

Please note the last sentence in Fund’s quote. The bottom line is that John McCain is absolutely unbeatable in the general election unless Janet Napolitano comes back and runs against him, and then it’s a contest.

With respect to JD Hayworth, he’s simply worn out his welcome as a politician in Arizona. The guy is perceived by most people, quite rightly IMO, as a loudmouthed jerk. That is what cost him his seat in the House, not his immigration stance. JD might be able to raise a few bucks outside of the state, but he won’t raise much in state.

Without regard to who runs, or if they all run, in the primary, McCain will win in a walk. The 61% number doesn’t mean much given two things. One, I doubt that anybody thinks any of the three is a reasonable candidate. Two, McCain (absent Napolitano’s return) can spend $10MM in a primary which only has two media markets. He could probably spend more if he thought he had to because he can certainly raise all the money he needs to win the primary. He won’t have spend $50.00 to beat any Democrat but Napolitano.

I know it sucks. But that’s just how it is.


Category: ,

RSS feed

93 Comments Leave a comment

I read something really interesting earlier

SirGladiator (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 2:03AM EST (link)

I read an article from the politico website detailing how McCain is going all out to help ‘moderates’ defeat Conservatives in GOP Primaries next year, they named a bunch of specific candidates, and talked about how unusual it is for a guy who lost a Presidential run to be so involved in the next cycle at all. Of course it didn’t really surprise me, Ive been assuming for months now that McCain is planning to run again in 2012 if it looks like Obama is beatable (as he clearly is right now). Its interesting to note how McCain is going all out to be THE guy on the center-left of the Republican Party next time, pretty much like he was this time once Guliani dropped out. He has learned quite correctly, as we have to our dismay, that a center-left candidate CAN win a GOP Presidential nomination, so long as the Conservative vote is divided. So anybody who thought that McCain would try to move to the right to finally win those Conservative votes in the next election, I think that ship has pretty much sailed. McCain is going left for 2012, and it’s going to be really interesting to see how well Palin can keep the other minor candidates from dividing up the Conservative vote next time, that will determine whether McCain or Palin is our 2012 nominee.

Please.

mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 8:39AM EST (link)

1. Rudy was always arguably one of the two most conservative candidates in 08. He got painted into a box by the flakes in “Values Voter” coalition.
2. Sarah Palin will be DOA in ’12 in the General. I’m at a total loss as why a Conservative would vote for a candidate who has absolutely zero accomplishments on her legislative record, made a name for herself by knifing Republicans and who is about as fiscally conservative – on her record – as Obama. The only thing she actually DID as Governor was to cut and run when the going got tough. And I keep waiting for Gary to post a diary that points out that she is campaigning for and raising money for guys like Toomey and Marco.

There will be no difference between McCain and Palin. They’ll sound different, but it’s the same result in a different suit.

I continue to be surprised that people ignore Rudy for 2012

red_oakster (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 10:37AM EST (link)

Contra the earlier post, McCain has said there’s “not a chance” he’ll run in 2012 (WSJ interview).

If McCain is out, the two leading candidates are Romney and Huckabee. Palin and Pawlenty are longer shots. You have to do well in either Iowa or New Hampshire to stand a chance of winning the nomination. Rudy could focus on New Hampshire. Without McCain, he could do quite well there, with an excellent chance to win the state. And he would be off to the races after that, with an excellent chance to beat either Romney or Huckabee (or both) in the rest of the primaries..

I'm not at all focused on '12...

mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 10:53AM EST (link)

but, given just a quick thought, I find substantially more negatives than positives for Rudy in ’12 than in ’08, although on the whole “I” still like him much better than ANY name currently in the mix. I just don’t see it happening. And I don’t see McCain in the mix either. Maybe I’ll ask Franz tonight and get an authoritative opinion.

If McCain ran again, I would attend a rally...

Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 10:55AM EST (link)

…but only to point and laugh loudly.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

I'll join ya on that Neil...LOL

AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 3:23PM EST (link)

Give me a call if he runs…I’ll buy tickets and fly to you wherever yo decide to attend…LOL

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 

His child protection and adoption things are horrible

mom2oneson (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 10:58AM EST (link)

and he should be accountable for what he did but that being said I like Rudy and hope he does run in 2012. He just seems like an honest man and he knows how to get things done. I hadn’t read Achance’s stuff before I liked him but having read it now he seems more like what Achance writes about like I think Rudy would be one that understands how the government and stuff works. He seems trustworthy too, like the uncle that always makes you laugh or talks about interesting things, some of them even on tv give me the creeps.

Be more specific.

jeffreywturner (Diary) Saturday, October 10th at 10:16AM EST (link)

We are all for gay right, the same rights as everyone else has.

What Rudy & most liberals are for, are SPECIAL PRIVILEGES for gays.

“Life is too short, can’t we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?”

See below.

jeffreywturner (Diary) Saturday, October 10th at 10:18AM EST (link)

This was meant as a reply to the comment below, not above.

“Life is too short, can’t we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?”

 
 
 

Rudy is a non starter woith too many people because he's pro Choice and pro Gay rights...

AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 3:21PM EST (link)

I compromised on McCain this last time to my utter shame because of Palin…but Rudy is poison for a winning coalition…the same as McCain was…the same as Romney would be…we need someone who is goiung to unite us all…and all Rudy can do is divide us

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

Who has those qualifications?

aesthete (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 7:31PM EST (link)

I ask that question of you seriously, Ace. For crying out loud, you supported Huckabee last time around (to your credit, reluctantly), and his coalition surely wouldn’t have “winning”! Not that I care about ’12 too much, but if we’re gonna have that discussion, then we have to recognize that there’s absolutely no one who can unite all of the members of the coalition of the 80s. Personally, I think that although some of the criticisms of Rudy were and are valid, he is still far and away the best candidate for last time (though he sucked at campaigning in the primary), and the best potential POTUS, even arguably on the socially conservative front. Personally, I can’t think of anything that isn’t symbolic that Huckabee would have done on the socially conservative front that Guiliani wouldn’t have done. Oh well, it’s all spilt milk IMO, and the only thing that’s important right now is 2010. The legislative branch is in charge of the pursestrings, after all, so that’s where we should focus our energies as a party and as a coalition.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

Rudy wasn't bad but he didn't seem to want

Richard Mullins (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 10:41PM EST (link)

to be president bad enough. He seemed to busy to running the law firm that he didn’t but enough effort into wanting to be president. To me I hope he doesn’t try again unless he get some enthusiasm when it comes to the primaries. Otherwise forget the whole thing. No repeats of 2008 and half hearted running.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

Agreed nt

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:45AM EST (link)

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

 
 

In all seriousness...I wish I knew....

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 10:42AM EST (link)

Who has those qualifications?

Fred has those qualifications…and is someone I think we could all rally to…but if he’s going to get in and half assed run like he did last time…He doesn’t fit either…

What I’m driving at is this…Libertarians need to get over Rudy because he won’t fly with SoCons. SoCons need to get over Huckabee because he’ll never fly with Fiscons and anti SoCon Libertarians….I think we’re at a point were Romney has lost credibility with all three legs of the stool…so we need to be working right now at finding a consensus and stop eating our young or it’s going to be a long 7 years going forward

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

True dat

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:28PM EST (link)

Wish that wasn’t the way life worked, and that we could get a good candidate for ’12. At any rate, it’s extremely doubtful that we’ll take back the Presidency until ’16, so it’s still probably an unfruitful discussion until ’16.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

 
 

To be clear on one thing you say...

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 10:58AM EST (link)

I can’t think of anything that isn’t symbolic that Huckabee would have done on the socially conservative front that Guiliani wouldn’t have done.

The answer is JUDGES!!!

This is the sole reason you’ll never get SoCons to even look at a libertarian like Rudy….because Roe V Wade goes to judicial philosophy and the root of the problem we have with our government. SoCon’s look at this from a wide spectrum because without a court who is willing to find Justice Blackmun’s many varying “auras, penumbras” and “emmanations” to bestow rights on individuals not even conceived of at the founding…as well as upon the central government which were specifically prohibited by the founders…this country wouldn’t be where it is…One doesn’t have to oppose abortion to oppose a politician who hasn’t got a problem with Roe V Wade and Rudy poses a problem for SoCons for that very reason.

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

I'd rather not get into an argument about '08

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:16PM EST (link)

as that sort of thing tends to be quite divisive and unproductive in moving forward. It’s doubtful that Rudy will run in ’12, anyways, so in that sense, there’s nothing for you to worry about. That said, there really wasn’t much that social conservatives had to fear from a President Rudy; he campaigned for Scalia, Roberts, and Alito (particularly Alito) in the early phases of their nominations, had a top-notch team of advisors for judges, made remarks in a prepared speech to the Federalist Society that were very much in line with originalist thought, and had an admirable record working in Reagan’s DoJ. As far as I’m aware, the only controversy surrounding Rudy on judges concerns a statement that he made where he states his belief that stare decisis is a valid tool for the Supreme Court to use, which some took to mean that he wouldn’t appoint judges who would overturn Roe vs Wade.

Huckabee, on the other hand, has a moderate to terrible record on judges and SC decisions, and based on my findings, seems to prefer a more results-based method of Constitutional interpretation more at home in the progressive side of politics than among conservatives. He, for example, thought that Lawrence vs Texas was correctly decided (http://archive.redstate.com/blogs/mahler/2007/dec/09/huckabee_and_judges), and appointed a rather lacklustre judge to the 8th circuit described as “left of center” (http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1940006/posts).

I understand how a social conservative would have had qualms about electing a social moderate like Rudy, but I can’t for the life of me think of why one would prefer Huckabee’s record on judges to Rudy’s. TBH, Rudy had, by far, the most conservative record on judges out of all of the major candidates (with the exception of Fred Thompson, of course). At any rate, it’s all over now… on to 2010!

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

I agree...no reason to fight old battles...unless these guys run again...

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:40PM EST (link)

I’m just explaining why Rudy was and always will be a non starter.

and I’m well aware of why the others are/were as well…I shared most of the conserns.

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

concerns nt

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:40PM EST (link)
The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 

This is exactly the point.

jeffreywturner (Diary) Saturday, October 10th at 10:28AM EST (link)

You don’t even have to be pro-life to see that Roe v. Wade is both asinine and extremely dangerous.

It is ridiculous that the courts can just “make up” stuff, and pretend it is in the Constitution, in order to impose their personal values on the public.

“Life is too short, can’t we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?”

 
 
 
 
 

Even the squishy middle and "independent" women

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 11:17AM EST (link)

might be looking for an adult male as President by ’12. Rudy is not a SoCon but he’s a lot more friendly to SoCons than Comrade Obama or any other Democrat. I don’t think the SoCons can elect anyone, but they can UN-elect someone or make someone unelectable, so perhaps backing someone who won’t allow the Left to do anything TO SoCons is the best they can hope for.

We’ll see how the Sarah Palin myth holds up over the next couple of years. It has become increasingly evident that her highly touted Gas Pipeline is nothing but a pipe dream and SouthCentral Alaska is screaming mad over potential natural gas shortages should they have a cold winter. It is beginning to be said out loud that the Eeeevul Murkowski’s gas line deal DID actually have gas and gas producers, provided for a spur line to SouthCentral and the Interior, and would be well into permitting by now. The only thing Palin’s AGIA has done is let the Canadians play with half a billion dollars of Alaska’s money. Likewise, her ACES revenue scheme has completely alienated the Industry and now some adult is going to have to undo it and try to undo the ill will it engendered.

The Governor’s race here in ’12 will be very interesting. Gov. Parnell has a tough choice; Palin’s favorables here have dropped like a stone and he is stuck with her administration and her programs. I don’t think he’s the sort of guy who’ll kick her stuff to the curb and try to establish an identity separate from Palin. If he runs on “stay the course,” the election will become a referendum on Palin, one that I don’t think he can win.

In any event, at many levels, ’12 looks like a good year to run as a stable, accomplished adult rathere than a “maverick,” a “rogue,” or a chimera.

In Vino Veritas

Errata: Gov's race here is '10 not '12. nt

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 11:19AM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

 
 

I've gotta part ways with ya ther beck...Palin isn't McCain...and Values Voters aren't Flakes...

AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 3:19PM EST (link)

That’s the kind of crap that sunk us last election…You’re sounding about Palin the way Brooks and McCain’s lackey who tried to sink her during and just after the election.

Besides…name me one other prominent Republican out there who has consistently scored point after point on Obama the way Sarah has…I haven’t seen Rudy do it…or the Huckster…or Romney….or the now flavor of the month…McCain’s favorite governor Pawlenty!

They haven’t so much as Scratched Obama and Palin has made him back track consistently on death panels and other issues.

As for the values voter crack…the Party has pissed down values voters legs in two election cycles in a row while the Dems have gone after them…and look at the result…2004 proved the Republicans will win with Values Voters every time they have them with them…and 2006 and 2008 proves you disregard them at your own peril. I’m begging you…and the rest of the party…let’s stop attacking that part of the party…or we’re toast no matter who we put at the top of the ticket!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

Sarah is an excellent commentator.

mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 3:43PM EST (link)

She has absolutely no worthwhile experience doing anything that even remotely looks conservative. I don’t consider knifing Republicans in the back, raising the spending levels of her state, refusing to consider pro-life legislation, and running out the back door when things are starting to come to a head as experience I want to see in a POTUS candidate.

Sarah talks a good game. And that’s where it ends.

I’m not for a second quibbling that any of the folks you’ve mentioned have actually done squat. Pawlenty is the closest to actually having an “accomplishment” to point to at the state level.

As far as VV are concerned, let’s be clear. It’s the VV who are threatening to take their ball and go home. Gee, they love Huckabee. The one candidate who I would offer is measurably worse than McCain.

The “problem” Ace, is that we have zip for real leaders in the party right now.

Whether they took their ball home or not....or whether they do so in 12

AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 4:24PM EST (link)

matters…because without the ball…there’s no way to play the game…right or wrong…whether they’re just taking the ball and going home…or if the anti V Vs are chasing them home with the ball in their hand it matters little…unless we work together in this…and unless we can rally all three legs to a consensus candidate…we’re through…

You and I agree on far more than we disagree on…but your tone where values voters is concerned is what I’m calling you on…it’s not helpful and is the kind of thing that had us going at each other during the primaries…Let’s work on finding a candidate we can both be happy with…you don’t like Huckabee or Palin…fine…let’s move on to someone else…I don’t like Rudy, Romney , Pawlenty are any of those guys…fine…let’s find someone else…but let’s not trash each other because there are things about all those candidates one or the other of us can’t reconcile ourselves to…and put the name calling and recriminations aside…because if we don’t…we’re looking at a second time for the wunderkind…and neither of us want that…

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

Id also add...Palin is showing far more than an ability as a commentator...

AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 4:57PM EST (link)

She’s actually showing herself to be an astute tactician because every time she opens her mouth…Obama steps into a trap she has set for him…

and let me anticipate your argument to that:

Maybe she’s not a brilliant tactician…but has been successful laying her taps because someone is telling her how…which doesn’t phase me a bit…because if that’s the case…SHE is the one that hired whoever is advising her…which shows an ability to lead that I admire far more than those who micromanage those they hire….she is showing an ability to find good people and delegate to them those responsibilities she’s not as qualified to carry out…to me…that is the true essance of leadership and I believe is what made Reagan the greatest president in the twentieth century

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

She's a brilliant tactician and a gifted orator

aesthete (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 7:41PM EST (link)

Her record as an executive sucks, end of story. TBF, Ace, I’m not buying the “woe is me” story of the values voters: relative to any of the other members of the coalition on domestic issues, they most definitely have had the most bones tossed their way by leadership. True, they’ve been treated as the red-headed stepchild of the GOP since Bush’s popularity started to wane (partly without reason), but in terms of actual results, they got a fair amount done for them on a federal level. I don’t begrudge them that (I’m rather glad that we got good judges and the Partial Birth legislation passed), but I won’t lie for them and say that they got shafted by Republicans, when quite the opposite is true. I would love for social conservatives and fiscal conservatism to get back together, as their interest coincide more often than not, but for that to happen, social conservatives need to stop acting like they were the victims.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

Since when?

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 10:11AM EST (link)

relative to any of the other members of the coalition on domestic issues, they most definitely have had the most bones tossed their way by leadership.

They, (WE) have had a lot of promises and platitudes sent our way…but you tell me what bones have been thrown our way since 2004? With the exception of the Terry Schiavo thing, I would argue there wasn’t a whole hell of a lot thrown our way before that…and most of us didn’t like the things that were done on Schiavo and the faith based initiatives…we wanted the underlying problems we were trying to point out fixed…but the majority of us were horrified at the idea of the Congress passing a law that applied to one citizen in this country and didn’t like the idea of a faith based initiative because we knew the government would use the money given as an excuse to regulate the church.

ALL THAT is compkletely besides the point anyway…my point is…Rudy is unacceptable to values voters. Huckabee is unacceptable to FisCons, Romney is becoming increasingly unacceptable to both. Now I’m hearing the same insults and cutting rhetoric from the libertarian wing of the party that trashed Huckabee aimed at Palin…an all they have to show as a standard bearer is Ron Paul…and noone takes him seriously at all…

My whole point is…We….(and I mean all of us) have to stop attacking each other…The Republican Party can’t win squat without SoCons…and the party has proven that in the last two elections…we’ve consciously down played social issues…The Party can’t win if they do likewise to FisCons…(a group which includes most SoCons)…and the Party definitely can’t win without national security Conservatives…We all have to pull together and stop attacking each other.

That said, name for me one single other Republican that has been as effective as Palin at scoring on Obama in the last year and let’s talk about coalescing around him/her…but right now…Sarah is it! If there are policy issues we need to discuss about her…let’s talk about them by all means…but let’s leave the snobbish insults about her lack of a political pedigree, or her lack of an ivy league education where they belong. and as far as the pure as the wind driven snow Republicans she took down in AK…my question is…was there cause or not? Stevens may have been a bridge too far it can be argued…but what about the rest of those you seem to be mourning?

and before I am barraged with poop from the peanut gallery…let me put the arguement that I attack fellow Republicans as much as anyone to bed before anyone wastes time making it.

I am on a crusade against a specific Demographic of the Republican Party which is an active fifth column …specifically the RMSP is an example of one organization among many others in the party who is the favorite of Acorn, SEIU, George Soros and the Rathke brothers….recent recipients of a fat $50,000 contribution from Andy Stern and the SEIU. They are the Republicrats like Snowe, Kirk, Collins, McCain, Specter (before he switched), etc who enable the Democrats and always pull the trigger at the worse possible moment when they decide they’re going to betray the party!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

I already mentioned a couple

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 11:48AM EST (link)

Partial Birth Abortion ban and judges and are issues that social and cultural conservatives hold pretty dear to their hearts. Granted, they are important for Fiscal conservatives, also (I’m glad that both passed), but the way they were promoted was definitely tailored towards SoCons. Also, you may not agree with or like them, but Bush’s NCLB bill, faith-based initiatives, and others were promoted as socially conservative. If you can name something more that Bush could have realistically done for social conservatives, I’m all ears. There’s certainly a lot he could have done for FisCons. Regardless, it has to be noted that, at the very least, Bush held the line on the social conservative agenda, and in fact pushed forward many of their initiatives. The same cannot be said for the Fiscal/libertarian side, and in fact, I would argue that not only was the line not held, but it was intentionally forgotten about in the Republicans’ rush to try to be Dem lites, not only in the monetary aspects of government, but also in increased regulation of the private sphere (Elizabeth Dole’s online gambling bill, anyone?). I agree fundamentally that we have to get the party in unison, and that that will involve the members of the conservative coalition to agree to disagree. That said, a revisionist recounting of the events of the Bush administration doesn’t help in promoting amicable disagreement.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

I'm not interested in historical revisionism either...

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 1:03PM EST (link)

but of the things you mention…only the PBAB was the only thing I agreed with the way it was handled…and it’s been whittled away it by the judiciary ever since….I would argue the FBI and other things he did were more damaging to SoCons than helpful…most of what was done was in the first term and was all geared to keeping us in line…I drank the kool aid and as far as I’m concerned when it all came out it the wash…it all amounted to lip service and little else.

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 
 

She's a good "presenter". And the one thing she isn't

mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 10:26PM EST (link)

and will NEVER be is Ronald Reagan redux. Reagan never micro-managed – that was a Carter thing – but Reagan was an excellent executive and he never ran away from a tough situation.

Sarah Palin is about as far from being a “leader” as our Party is going to get. She took over as chief executive of a state where her party controls both houses of the legislature and she did… oh yeah, pretty much nothing but increase spending. Hell, even Mike Huckabee finished his terms.

fair enough...and I wouldn't argue that...my issue is with the smearing of her when she's the only one out there knocking down threes from the top of the key

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 10:22AM EST (link)

while the rest of the Republican team in playing footsie with the other team under the basket and refusing to even shoot the ball let alone pass it out to someone who will!

Let me be clear…I’m not a Sarah Sycophant…and I’m not about to go all in on her yet…but two things bother me on this…first is the Brookes and Schmidts in this party who are be-clowning themselves and sound like Democrats in their petty and vindictive caterwauling about how unsophisticated and under educated Palin is…and I’m doubly concerned seeing people I admire and normally agree with on 98% of issues taking up the call of the Brookes and Schmidts.

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

Tired of this point

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:30PM EST (link)

If Mike Huckabee, or any other Republican governor in the history of the Party, had gotten half the flack and grief from crazed liberals and moonbats that Palin got, every single one of them would have bailed too. You can’t show me any R gov that’s gotten anywhere near that kind of crap and stuck it out. So give the ‘quitter’ line a rest already, it just makes you sound like you’ve got Palin Derangement Syndrome.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

Besides the point

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:53PM EST (link)

She bailed. I probably would have, too, but it is what it is, and it leaves us with two salient points to consider:

1: She didn’t really do much in her first two years, and now that she’s not in office anymore, she most definitely has no real accomplishments that she can point to in the future.

2: If she quit now, what’s to stop her from doing so again, or at least, from having whatever it is that caused her to quit to not cause her problems with job performance in the future?

If, with that and all, you still think she is a viable and acceptable candidate for president, that’s fine, but it can’t really be said that her quitting isn’t a negative. (Of course, this assumes that she will run in ’12, which may not necessarily be the case.)

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

No real accomplishments?

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 1:32PM EST (link)

She changed the tone of the entire health care debate with two words on Facebook: “death panels”.

That’s more than almost anyone else has been able to do on our side in this debate.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

Rephrase:

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 2:08PM EST (link)

“no real accomplishments” as an executive.

I like Sarah right where she’s at right now: as an influential gadfly on the right. Her rhetorical instincts are very good, but I don’t see her as performing well at all in an executive role, given her record in AK.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

As I replied below

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 2:55PM EST (link)

Alaska is one of how many states that isn’t having a budget crisis? Who would you give that credit to?

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

Correlation ? causation

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 3:08PM EST (link)

Can you prove to me that Sarah Palin’s policies are what achieved this result? Have previous governors done as well, or at least as well, on this issue? Would this have happened if petroleum prices had been at a “normal” level? Lastly, is this the result of her policies, or was it rather the result of a Clinton-like gridlock in the AK government? From what I’ve been able to ascertain, Ms. Palin has done very little in AK, and considering that she was only Governor for about 2 years, I think we would be remiss not to at least consider the idea that the Murowski administration had something to do with this state of events. I’m not at all opposed to Sarah Palin (my opinion is slightly negative, largely as a result of all the Palinistas), and if I found out that the surplus was the result of her policies, I wouldn’t mind it at all, but implying that correlation equals causation is a serious breach in logic.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

Proofs are for mathematicians

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 5:03PM EST (link)

I speak as one. In other words, you’re asking for the impossible, unless you can somehow create an alternate universe in which Sarah Palin was never elected governor of Alaska so that we can compare how she did with whoever was elected in the alternate universe.

You remind me of the religious academic that refused to believe that Jesus Christ actually existed, and set up a set of rules of evidence that proved conclusively that Jesus never existed; except that another academic took that same set of rules and proved equally as conclusively that Napoleon Bonaparte never existed either.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

Alaska happens to be the only state that has

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 6:57PM EST (link)

revenue from oil, as in DIRECT revenue, as their source of revenue. They also have a “rainy day” fund from previous oil revenues that were well in excess of the state budgets.

“Proof” isn’t necessary here, an understanding of the facts is. You fall way short in that regard.

 

And you

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 9:35PM EST (link)

sound like one of those socialists who, upon having similar questions asked of socialism’s record, get defensive and claim that you can’t “prove” that capitalism works. I’m not asking for proof; I’m asking for a reasonable argument on why you think that Sarah Palin’s policies are responsible for the given outcome. You’re better than ad hominem, Finrod. Prove it by telling me why you believe that the legislation and policies sponsored by Palin balanced the budget, rather than gridlock or soaring oil revenues.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

 
 
 

Oh, lets see, let's give credit to the Constitutional Convention,

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 7:28PM EST (link)

Governor Egan who negotiated the Prudhoe Bay lease, Gov. Hammond who was the Governor through the Pipeline Boom, didn’t let all the money get pissed away on pet projects, and was one of the architects of the Permanent Fund, Governors Cowper, Hickel, and Murkowski who got us through the era of low prices and revenues without doing anything stupid and set the stage for the last few years’ high prices and revenue, and Republican Legislatures who held Tony Knowles in check. You can give Sarah Palin credit for being Governor when all that bore fruit a couple of years ago with extraordinarily high revenue which she pissed away an alarming amount of with a half billion for her vaporware pipeline, over a billion in the Palin Pander Payment when the money should have been saved. Then you can give her credit for sending a budget to the Legislature based on totally unrealistic revenue and making the Leg take the heat for the cuts, for fracturing the Republican Party in what had been one of the Reddest of Red states, for totally alienating the oil industry with her windfall profits tax, and then quitting. Well, thank God she quit!

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 
 
 

Finrod you're not hanging out in the real world.

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 1:44PM EST (link)

First of all, she got lots of flack. Her family was attacked. It was bad. OK. So what.

Secondly, with respect to the crap she got, if she didn’t know it was coming she’s really, really stupid (and I don’t happen to think she is).

In point of fact she did quit. In point of fact, do you think for one moment that if she runs for President that the crap storm will stop? She refused to stand up to it once, what makes you think she won’t cut and run again?

Now then, with respect to my other issue with her, she was governor for about two years and she accomplished just what? Her budgets raised spending in AK pretty dramatically and the only real initiative she championed was the “pipeline” and frankly that pretty much looks like vaporware now. So, she got elected to a job, accomplished basically nothing for the people who elected her and ran away when the going got ugly.

Color me seriously unimpressed. We’ve already had to live through eight years of run off hide from the fight with Bush, I don’t want to do that again.

With respect to “every single one of them would have bailed too”, so what? I’d level the same charges against them. As a matter of fact I criticized Romney a whole bunch in the Primaries because he ran off after his first term in MA.

And dead men do bleed, mbecker.

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 2:51PM EST (link)

Show me any government anywhere where if tax revenues suddenly tripled like they did in Alaska, that government spending wouldn’t go up at least some. Alaska was rolling in money when oil hit $150/barrel, and at least she was able to direct a large chunk of that into a rainy day fund. Or did you not notice how Alaska is one of about three states that isn’t having a budget crisis now? Would it kill you to actually give her a tiny bit of credit for that? Or are you just going to sit there and say “Dead men do bleed!”

Her biggest mistake as governor was pushing through ethics rules that allowed for a legal denial of service attack on the governor’s office via bogus ethics complaints. But is that so horrible, that she couldn’t anticipate that a year and a half later she’d have the George Soros-funded goon squad trying to personally destroy her? That shoehorned her into either leaving the governor’s office or having to file for bankruptcy. Yet to you that’s a mortal sin, that she could see that her presence as governor was causing more harm for her state than good. Do you also blame rape victims for being raped? Get a bloody clue, man.

If the 535 Congresscritters on Capitol Hill had the good sense to leave when their presence is causing more harm than good, like Sarah did, we’d eliminate 98 percent of our country’s problems right there. But according to you, that would be a bad thing.

I have absolutely no use for your phony moralism; you can take it and stick it where the sun don’t shine, cause it stinks.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

Heh. So, Sarah was causing more harm that good.

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 6:54PM EST (link)

Interesting.

And for the record, if 100% of the Congress resigned I’d celebrate. I would also never want to see any of them in elected office again.

With respect to your phony charge that she was going to be forced in to bankruptcy because of the ethics charges, that is absolute, utter crap. Worthy perhaps of Gary and the Palinbots, but you should know better. All she had to do was ask the AG to certify that she acted within her responsibility as Governor and the liability resulting from the charges goes away. Get a new excuse for her cut and run, that one won’t survive even cursory examination.

With respect to her spending money like a drunk sailor, she was doing it long before oil hit $150 a bbl. And even if it was related directly to that, NOBODY thought oil was going to stay there long, including her. Her budgets were based on oil priced – as I recall – in the low $50′s.

You really need to get a better understanding of facts before you make a complete fool of yourself.

 
 
 
 
 

She has an ability as a spoiler; that's all.

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:39AM EST (link)

She’s very good at being the UN-whoever. She really doesn’t have any philosophical or political framework of her own, she’s just against stuff. She became Governor by being the Un-Murkowski. Once she became Governor, she was clueless and turned the government over to a bunch of high school buddies and holdover Democrats. Her gas line is a fantasy and her revenue scheme has all but chased the Industry out of Alaska. She cannot stand the thought of anyone competent around her and unless it is on something destructive of someone she views as an enemy simply will NOT take advice.

It is real easy to be the UN-Obama, and she’s landed a few rounds. She has no clue what the US is or what it should be doing. The Lefties are right, the most intellectual thing she’d done since college was read People magazine. You people need to get over She Who Was Once Governor. She’s now a millionaire on a sweet book deal; just let her go. She’s too good for Alaska, she’s too good for you.

In Vino Veritas

There you go again Art...

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 10:30AM EST (link)

We can find agreement on the first paragraph you wrote…and I’m still waiting for you to write a substantive, thoughtful and substantive piece detailing the thinks you’ve given us glimpses of over the last 9 months…but then you do what you always do…you let your contempt for her pour out in a snobbish rant about how unsophisticated she is…and how she didn’t go to all the right schools to get her philosophies from a bunch of under worked, over paid, bubble headed Ivory tower professes.

I’m begging you…and have for months to lay out your case and leave your personal animosities out of it…because I’m hungry to know more. I don’t want the polished version of who she is to sway me…I want to see the tarnish and blemishes in all their glory so I can decide on her from an informed position…but that last bit does nothing but push me toward her because snobbery is so offensive to me and those like me.

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

Specifically this....

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 10:35AM EST (link)

You people need to get over She Who Was Once Governor. She’s now a millionaire on a sweet book deal; just let her go.

I’m tempted to say your envy is unbecoming but I won’t go there…I want you to make your case Art…I couldn’t be more sincere in saying that…make your case in a calm, rational and reasoned way and leave the rebid foaming at the mouth insults to the KOSites!!!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

I've made it over and over, Ace; the woman never had a clue

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 11:17AM EST (link)

about how to run a government nor did she ever have any positive program; she’s merely an “aginner.” She left the government mostly in the hands of holdover Democrats and brought in some high school buddies and malcontents from the Murkowski Administration who drove what little agenda she actually had.

As to the rest, it’s a tired meme already. I’m just a country boy from Georgia with a high school education. I’ve had lots of college classes, but I was never willing to either stay in long enough or do stuff I didn’t want to to get a degree. So, Palin is nominally much better educated than I am. That said, I’ve spent my whole adult life reading, thinking, and learning and I can keep up with most anybody on most any subject and there are very few in the Country that can keep up with me in my specialty. Sarah Palin is not a thoughtful or inquisitive person. She couldn’t answer questions because she didn’t know the answers. She kept up with the news as it related to her. Remember, I’ve heard her talk when she didn’t have a script or hours of preparation. She got sold as some oil and gas expert because of her AOGCC appointment. She knew a little more about oil than my cats because her husband works on the Slope so she knows the vocabulary a bit. An AOGCC Commissioner is not a job, it’s a patronage position and the only qualification is “friend of the Governor.” Her gas line was cooked up by some malcontents from the Murkowski Administration some of whom had connections to TransCanada. Now TC has a half billion dollars of Alaska’s money and there is no sign of any activity on a gas line. ACES was from the febrile mind of some other malcontents from the Murkowski Administration and if anyone else did it, it would be an extortionary windfall profits tax. Additionally, there was a good reason the State had never based its oil taxes on profits; these are vertically integrated companies that can move the profits to wherever the tax regime is most favorable. But, it is relatively easy to measure the production and base your taxation on that. Along the way, those malcontents got themselves appointments and brought their buddies along as “Tax auditors.” Alaska will be in court for decades trying to sort out those taxes and dollars to doughnuts in a few years some cash-strapped governor will tell the AG to settle for pennies on the dollar because we need the money. I can go on, and on, and on about things that woman and her lackeys did wrong in running my state and, frankly, the day she left office was one of the happier days in Alaska’s history. Go back and find some of my old posts, I said long ago that by ’10 governing Alaska was not going to be happy for her and she would need to get out. There aren’t billions to throw out in Palin Pander Payments like she did last year. The price of oil is stagnant, production is declining, and there is NO HOPE of new development because of National politics and the damage done to relations with the Industry by ACES. Good time to be selling your book rather than pretending to be Governor.

And, yes, I am contemptuous of her; her whole career is based on lying and backstabbing. I am very impressed, though not envious because I like to be able to face myself in the mirror, by her ability, second only in my experience to Obama’s, to get people to just accept and even worship her on faith. 99% of the people who tout her couldn’t tell you a thing about her except the myth she propagated for herself when campaigning for VP.

In Vino Veritas

Art, most of the Palin supporters aren't thinking about that

Richard Mullins (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 11:22AM EST (link)

It’s all about feelings and nothing more. I can think of many more people that are qualified than She that was once Governor.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 

and again there is this...I was with you, especially the country boy and why I never got a degree...till here:

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 11:59AM EST (link)

Sarah Palin is not a thoughtful or inquisitive person. She couldn’t answer questions because she didn’t know the answers. She kept up with the news as it related to her.

Where have I heard that before? Clue: it wasn’t a Republican/conservative talking point…but is was a talking point…all I’m getting at is…let’s stop using Democrat talking points against each other….

I am glad for the rest of the post and it’s going in my archives so keep in mind I’m not mindlessly supporting her…and agree in part where you say:

I am very impressed, though not envious because I like to be able to face myself in the mirror, by her ability, second only in my experience to Obama’s, to get people to just accept and even worship her on faith. 99% of the people who tout her couldn’t tell you a thing about her except the myth she propagated for herself when campaigning for VP.

This is where you could play an important roll because I know I’m not the only one out here that was taken in by the propaganda about how great W was and I’m not in a hurry to rush in and swallow the kool aid without testing it first….my only quibble in what you’ve done to this point has to do with the way you go at her using Dem smears…most of us were conditioned to recoil at that kind of rhetoric during the campaign and by repeating it you come off as a bitter old man who lost patrons to the great moral champion we were all told she was and no-one takes you seriously because it all looks like sour grapes.

Keep in mind…I mean this as a critique and not an attack and hope you’ll take it that way.

Finally..where you say:

her whole career is based on lying and backstabbing.

Please don’t say that and leave it hanging…give specifics or don’t say it because if that part of her character is real…I’ll be banging the drum right along side of you….but as of yet…I haven’t seen you describe what it is she did to deserve that characterization.

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

Ace, I don't think you understand what she did to him

Richard Mullins (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:04PM EST (link)

so he does have a right to be angry. Anyways, she could do some good if help raise some funds for conservative candidates, but I don’t see that happening.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

I'm not questioning whether he's got a right to be angry...

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:13PM EST (link)

if you’ll read what I’ve written in a couple replies to him you’ll see that I’m interested in knowing what his problems are with her…and from what I’ve heard in his less angry moments…there is plenty to be concerned about. but noone is listening right now because all it takes is for someone to throw out a talking point from the lefties about here…and we shut down…I know…I do it. We all know why the tea and raised pinky cocktail crowd despise her…and could care less…

Art has important incite that the cocktail crowd doesn’t have and I want to hear it…and others as well…but noone will listen when he’s lobbing the same bombs at her that the left is..

and believe me…the irony of me making this argument to Art isn’t lost on me since I am as guilty as anyone on this site of doing it…but as such…I can speak from a position of experience on it as well

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

You know, maybe the lefties are right, Ace.

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:48PM EST (link)

You’ll note that I’m rarely one of the people here tossing out stuff about the Lefties being idiots and crazy and such. Plenty of them are, but at the leadership level there are some very, very smart and capable people who make formidable enemies. They see the World differently from us, but they are observant and they do know what to do with their observations.

Now I’m tired of talking about Sarah Palin. I hope she takes her millions and buys an island somewhere and just leaves public life; she’s got what she wants: money. Now, we’ll see if money is enough when power beckons.

In Vino Veritas

yeah...I'm thinking this discussion has run it's course...

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 5:45PM EST (link)

I just want to reiterate…I’m not a blind follower…I wouldn’t be the village idio…err…malcontent if I were….so don’t take what I’ve said here as a defense of Sarah…I really do want to know all the gory details…

from there…I’m off the subject…for now anyway…LOL

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 

Great Freudian slip there, Ace

civil truth (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 2:07PM EST (link)

“Art has important incite…” I believe you meant “insight”.

But “incite” works too, because Art does a great job of inciting us here at RedState to intelligent action.

So what you wrote is fine either way. :)

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

http://www.gmsplace.com/

LOL...again...sometimes I hate the english language...and that's one of those I could proof read over a thousand times and not catch...nt

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 5:42PM EST (link)
The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 

What she did, Richard, was not to me specifically.

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:17PM EST (link)

It was bad enough when she peed all over the Administration I had been a part of in order to get elected but she added insult to injury when her claim to fame on the National stage was how she “cleaned up” all us corrupt old boys in Alaska. With all my friends on the Union and Democrat side, if there were a corrupt bone in my body, I’d have been in jail long ago. She had nothing to do with the FBI corruption investigations yet she rode those. The Ethics Bill she touted wasn’t hers.

This is one of those “where do you go to get your reputation back?” things. Hell, I was gone well before even the Primary because I’d had it with the Murkowski Administration because the wheels had fallen off and I didn’t want to either ride it down or whore to be appointed by the next administration. Nevertheless, I get tarred with all the stuff she says about the “corrupt old boys” that she cleaned up. And she had or let her minions threaten me with an Ethics Act complaint for which I WILL have revenge.

In Vino Veritas

Well she seemed a bit two faced when it can to being a snob

Richard Mullins (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:28PM EST (link)

personally that doesn’t make look good to me. I want someone that doesn’t have a it’s all about me syndrome and that sort of what some of us saw in her. I’d rather have a candidate that doesn’t have a lot of groupies and is a real common person(it didn’t seem to happen in 2008). I don’t we even need to think of revenge but more on have a good set of ideas. In some cases, I would mind a an Andrew Jackson like candidate(sans all the parts about him).

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 
 
 

Ace, it ain't a talking point. I didn't read it in the paper

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:19PM EST (link)

or hear it on TV; I know her. I’ve talked to her. It’s true.

In Vino Veritas

I'm referring to the "she isn't thoughtful or inquisitive"

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:33PM EST (link)

it may be true…but the use of that phrase causes a reaction the same as if he’d said she’s an air headed bimbo…it may be true…but it’s been used so much by unhinged leftists that it means nothing any more…

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

Art is not calling Sarah a bimbo or stupid like the leftists do

civil truth (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 2:19PM EST (link)

…as well as our 5th-column punditocrats like Noonan, Frum, etc.

Art has state on several times that Sarah is quite intelligent and has a native cunning.

Rather, what Art is referring to is a frame of mind or a basic character trait, how one approaches the world – which has nothing to do with formal education or what degrees one hold.

It’s whether one is intellectually curious, approach with a questioning mind to understand the world better – or whether one as a pattern just goes along living without really inquring or trying to gain a deeper knowledge, just trying to have a good time or at least avoid pain.

Plenty of people with high degees from formal education are in that latter category, whereas many others who for whatever reason didn’t pursue higher education are in the former category.

So this has nothing to do with the intellectually snobbery position and tribal rite from which the left (and the Vichyites on the right) has hurled its accusations to those such as Sarah who don’t belong to their tribe.

Rather, it’s about her basic character, and Art from his personal knowledge of her and here actions has a basis on which to make that assessment. Which is what he has shared with us, along with some of the basis for that assessment.

But to some degree, this is also an inductive conclusion on his past too.

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

http://www.gmsplace.com/

they're his words...not mine...

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 12:17PM EST (link)

and I’ve consumed as much as I can of what he jas to say about her….so I know what you’re saying as well…my issue is with using terms from leftists to describe her…or on a more general note…Republicans attacking Republicans using Democrat talking points…

Art has a lot of useful info to pass on about Sarah…but there are many that won’t hear it because of it.

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

Lefties use words like a, and, and the, too, Ace.

Achance (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 12:36PM EST (link)

Maybe they were my words first and the lefties picked them up from me. Frankly, I don’t give a tinker’s damn what the Palin supporters think. Most of them are just as mind-numbed as the people who bought into that other empty vessel with no experience, Comrade Obama. The woman isn’t a leader, she isn’t a conservative in any philosophical sense, and she’s barely a Republican. You guys can think the World of her if you want. The only way I’ll ever support her for anything is if it is the only alternative to voting for a liberal Democrat and, frankly, there are Democrats I’d vote for first and that’s a hard thing for me to say.

In Vino Veritas

Why do you insist on lumping me in with the sycophants?

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 5:36PM EST (link)

You guys can think the World of her if you want.

Haven’t you read anything I’ve said above?…I want to know more…specifics…details…your insights free from the spiteful attacks you use on anyone who doesn’t automatically bow to you’re wisdom…

I want to learn what I can about her from you so I can make an informed decision…and I want you to be able to communicate those insights effectively to others who might otherwise listen to you but won’t because you use the terms lefties use to define Palin…

and again…the Irony of me, of all people, being the one to ask someone to tone down their rhetoric so they can be taken more seriously isn’t lost on me and I’m grinning from ear to ear as I write this.

I guess what I’m asking you to do is to do a comprehensive piece laying out what your problems are with Palin including specifics on policy and her behavior but to do it in such a way that you don’t set up a knee jerk reaction against what you’re saying by sounding like Politico’s Simple Simon in his petulant and pathetic snobbery toward Sarah.

I’m a Palin fan mainly because she was the only ray of sunshine I could find in what was a very dark election cycle for me…and it was Palin and only Palin that got me to mark my ballot at the top level…If she’s as bad as you say she is…and we’re all crazy for continuing to rally to her…then I want top know…and I want others to know…and you’re the only one here that can swing it…so…please don’t read anything I’ve said here as a mindless defense of Palin…and take it for what it is

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

Because you act like one, Ace.

Achance (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 7:41PM EST (link)

Same old Palinbot crap; if you don’t like her, you’re a misogynist. You’re envious. You’re a disgruntled job seeker. You’re afraid of strong women. You’re just using Lefty words. Same s@#t, from you, Gary, whoever.

I don’t like here because she’s a fake, a fraud, and a phony and she squandered billions of my State’s money trying to make herself popular then quit because she could only do that book deal if she wasn’t subject to the Ethics Act. I’m contemptuous of her and most of the people around her because they don’t know their a#$ frin their elbow.

Now you can come back and tell me I’m a misogynist.

In Vino Veritas

Does the Hinz Rule apply to SWSNBN?

nessa (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 7:46PM EST (link)

They had been quiet since early this morning, now you had to go poke them with a stick again. Gary will be posting another “Palin Quit For Your Sins” diary any minute now.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Contributor to Unified Patriots

teh twitter

 

and with that you confirm you haven't read anything I've said...

AceInTX (Diary) Sunday, October 11th at 2:49PM EST (link)

Same old Palinbot crap; if you don’t like her, you’re a misogynist. You’re envious. You’re a disgruntled job seeker. You’re afraid of strong women. You’re just using Lefty words. Same s@#t, from you, Gary, whoever.

I didn’t say any of the above and to the contrary am encouraging you to write about specifics. The bloom has worn off the rose for me and I know there is much more to her that we’re not being told…but you want to disparage everyone and lump me in with those who refuse to consider the possibility that she’s not what she’s been sold to us as being…

With that I’m done…no sense belaboring the issue further

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 
 

Now that I can heartily second, Ace

civil truth (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 12:43PM EST (link)

my issue is with…Republicans attacking Republicans using Democrat talking points…

which goes hand-in-hand with the absolute delusion that too many “moderate Republicans” view conservatives as a greater threat than the leftist Democrats who are trying to create a Communist regime.

NY-23 is just one of the most dramatic examples of that – along with the tribal attacks on Sarah and others speakers for conservatism who are viewed as déclassé.

Well they are right, I suppose – if you define “threat” as “I may lose my office and my perks”. So like the Ancien Régime they cowardly play the same territorial games heedless of the tumbrils awaiting them to escort them to the Place de la Révolution and the guillotine hungry for their necks.

And if our nation does go down the tubes, history will hold in high reprobation those who were in a position to stop the plunge into the abyss and instead greased the path.

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

http://www.gmsplace.com/

 
 
 
 

Yeah when you've meet a politician in real life

Richard Mullins (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:46PM EST (link)

you are much more able to know them than the people that the people that think they can do no wrong.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

You couldn't be more wrong on Palin.

jeffreywturner (Diary) Saturday, October 10th at 10:14AM EST (link)

McCain is a tree-hugger who thinks caribou are more important than people.

McCain is barely even pro-life, even though he pretended to be pro-life for the campaign.

McCain didn’t even support EITHER ONE of Bush’s two major tax cuts, even though he pretended to for the campaign.

Palin on the other hand, is as right-wing as they come on all three of those critcally important issues.

As far as 2012 goes, it is very unlikely that our candidate will matter, as far as determining our chances in the general election. If things continue the way they are, then ANY Republican will trounce Obama. On the other hand, if anything improves and the media can convince Americans that Obama isn’t as terrible as he really is, then NO Republican will defeat him.

I am always amazed at the dismissive attitude toward Palin. As I recall, there was ONE and ONLY ONE point in the General Election in 2008 that McCain had a lead in ANY of the polls, and that was right after Palin was added to the ticket. That lead only evaporated when the credit crises boiled over and was blamed on Bush & all Republicans by extension, despite what the liberal media tries to claim, by assigning the defeat to Palin’s supposed inability to perform.

You may think that “values- voters” are flakes because they are just a bunch of fundamentalist Christians with guns. You may also forget that this country was founded by fundamentalist Christians with guns.

Finally, the idea that legislation is the only type of accomplishment that qualifies one to be President hardly strikes me as a conservative one. In case you didn’t know it, executives do not write legislation. They only sign legislation written by others. Is Reagan, who clearly was the greatest President in the 20th century, remembered for being a legislative policy wonk, or for being a bold and visionary leader?

“Life is too short, can’t we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?”

 
 

Yeah...well...he's pretty much keeping his mouth shut in public

AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 3:09PM EST (link)

because he’s running this year and letting Meghan and Little Miss Lindsey be his mouth pieces…just look at Graham’s high profile right now…He’s stepping up to fill the vacuum McCain is losing and I can guarantee you once the 2010 elections are over…he’ll be out there spitting in our faces with a vengeance…he’s pissed at conservatives for their less than enthusiastic support for him….and let’s not forget McCain’s legendary propensity to spiteful vindictiveness. I guarantee you there is a wound he’s concealing right now because he can’t go for payback during an election year….but after next November…he’s going to be ready to ride on us like the four horsemen of the apocalypse!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 

Why surprising...

AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 2:49PM EST (link)

Mr. McCain remains a shoo-in since his approval rating among moderates is a striking 64% and he also wins approval of a surprising 41% of liberals.

he’s always shunned conservatives and pandered to liberals…why wouldn’t he pull 41% support from them?

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

And that is precisely why he's unbeatable. nt

mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, October 7th at 10:27PM EST (link)

In a *General*

IJB Wednesday, October 7th at 11:26PM EST (link)

He could still be beatable in a Primary, under the right conditions.

The "right" conditions don't, and won't, exist.

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:24AM EST (link)

1. There is no even remotely credible competition for him in the Democratic Party in Arizona unless Janet Napolitano comes back to run against him. None.
2. There is no Democrat in the state who is capable of self funding a campaign against McCain. Eddie Basha already tried that for Governor and got massacred.
3. No Democrat would be able to raise the funds necessary to take on McCain in the General election. The DNC and DSCC aren’t about to throw money at a sacrificial lamb with no statewide name recognition when they have seats to defend.
4. Given 1-3 McCain can spend an unlimited amount of money in a primary contest.
5. Neither Simcox or the “other guy” can raise enough money to be competitive and neither can come close to McCain’s name recognition.
6. Hayworth would have to raise money outside of Arizona because he won’t get it in-state.
7. Hayworth’s negatives are most likely higher than McCain’s.

Now then, draw me a picture that shows me how McCain is beatable short of him getting caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl.

Are we talking about the presidential primaries? nt

mom2oneson (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:48AM EST (link)

You're Putting Words In My Mouth

IJB Thursday, October 8th at 1:01AM EST (link)

I didn’t say any of the above.

I simply said that he can be beaten in a Primary under the right conditions.

Mom2... Senatorial Primary in '10. IJB, no I'm not.

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 8:46AM EST (link)

I am not putting words in your mouth.

I wrote this diary to point out that – IMO, based on what I see on the ground here in Arizona – John McCain is unbeatable in ’10 and that no primary challenge will even dent him, for the reasons I’ve cited. I’ve made this case on a number of occasions over the last year or so and the only difference this time is the report that JD Hayworth may be considering a challenge. I’ve listed my reasons why I don’t see JD as a serious contender.

My reasons are pretty straightforward and they should be fairly easy to argue against because I didn’t really split any hairs.

You bounced in and made a totally unsubstantiated statement. You offer no factual information and no assumptions to support your point. I asked you for a scenario by which your point might become reality, in other words what conditions do see happening that would lead to a McCain defeat?

All I’m asking you to do is to do what I did. I stated a premise – McCain is unbeatable in ’10 – and supported my argument. I don’t care if you agree or not, heck, I’d love to be wrong – it would really make my day. You’ve stated a premise, just support it with an argument.

Thanks.

 
 
 
 

Come on becker is another R next to someone's name worth that knife in our back for another 6 years?

BlackConservative (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 12:50AM EST (link)

McCain is not content to simply exist as another liberal Republican in the Senate, he wants to completely remake the GOP in his own liberal image. We can all sit around and wax about why this guy adn that guy are not conservative enough, while patiently the liberals line up to destroy the conservative coalition and drag the party through the mud again. Once again, they will leave us to hope that a democrat wins so then the liberalism can be blames on the opposition. McCains R next to his name has not meant much to him the last decade; it would be better for this to be a possible loss in the Senate with a conservative than to allow the Charade of John McCain (McCain Party) to continue to permeate the Senate.

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven.-Jesus Christ

Read a bit more closely; mbecker is absolutely not a McCain supporter

civil truth (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 1:25AM EST (link)

His imprecations against McCain are legendary here at RedState

However, he is a realist and lives in Arizona. His key point is that no other Republican – conservative or otherwise – can run a credible primary against McCain.

If you can come up with a scenario that can defeat McCain in the primary, given the factors mcbecker has listed, I’m sure he’d be glad to read it. But he’s certainly listed very high hurdles.

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

http://www.gmsplace.com/

Oh I know beckers feelings on McCain

BlackConservative (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 1:52AM EST (link)

I was simply stating that it seems a lot like the Rubio/Crist scenario, where we get a sure R seat, but at what cost? Another liberal in R clothing…and in McCain we get even worse-a liberal intent on liberalizing our party. At least make him spend some of his money he wants to use to dole out to the liberal Rs across the country saving his own senile you know what,

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven.-Jesus Christ

Re: spend his own money.

The_Gadfly (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 7:45AM EST (link)

If I recall correctly, like most liberals, McCain doesn’t have much of ‘his own money’ to spend. It’s all either tied up in trust funds or belongs to their wives. I believe that was precisely the excuse he used when he didn’t know how many houses he owned: the house was for one of the kids and his wife set it all up through legal entities over which he has no control.

Spending his own money...

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 9:01AM EST (link)

He’s more than willing to put Cindy’s money into his campaign if he needs to. He just won’t need to. He’ll get all he needs from the K Street crowd and the DC insiders. He won’t need to raise $10 here in AZ.

Oh I get that Becker. Just emphasizing the point

The_Gadfly (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 5:14PM EST (link)

that these bleeding heart types tend to make sure their money is safely ensconced elsewhere before they go hitting the middle class with tax hikes to assuage their guilty consciences. Any money that comes from Cindy has to come from her voluntarily, unlike us with taxes.

And I know if there were an even marginally tenable candidate against McCain, you’d be heading up the RedState blogs promoting him. And if the more conservative candidate had a ‘D’ behind his name, at least hesitating for a moment before pulling the ‘R’ lever.

 
 
 

McCain/?? is nothing like Crist/Rubio. At all.

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 8:59AM EST (link)

Marco Rubio is the only contender v Crist. Rubio has a current elected platform in the state of FL. He can raise money in-state and he’s got well honed, conservative positions that he presents extraordinarily well (see the videos from the RS Atlanta Gathering) that will both increase his name recognition in FL and give him the ability to raise serious cash outside of FL. He’s got the attention of the in-state media and a pretty good national media attention quotient as well.

In Arizona we’ve got exactly nobody like Rubio. What part of “there is no contestant for McCain here” isn’t getting through. Please note that we’ve got a fair number of Arizona posters here and not one of them has ever disagreed with my basic premise or underlying rationale.

Trust me on this BC, I really hate being right on this point.

 

what becker is driving at though...isn't what we'd all like to see happen..."MCCAIN PRIMARIED OUT OF OFFICE"!

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 11:08AM EST (link)

it’s about the reality of how unlikely that is…sad to say I agree with him as much as I wish it weren’t so

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 

BlackConservative...

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 8:52AM EST (link)

I have never voted for John McCain in a statewide election and I’ve been in AZ since ’93. I’ve never given any of his campaigns a dime. I’m hard pressed to remember any “nice” things I’ve written about him (I’m sure there a couple). I won’t support him or vote for him this time around either.

Please reread the diary – and my comments. I happen to pretty much agree with you right down the line. My point is, however, he won’t have a general election struggle (absent Napolitano) and he can spend whatever it takes – literally – to win a primary against a candidate(s) that has no money, no ability to raise money and no real net-positive name recognition statewide. I’m not happy about it, but it is what it is.

This is a little like supporting Tom Carper in DE.

I have to go vomit now.

LOL

AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 8th at 11:12AM EST (link)

This is a little like supporting Tom Carper in DE.

I have to go vomit now.

Me to….why’d I copy and quote that…

LOL….aww…there goes the carpet!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

Becker, what about the Precinct Committeeman Project?

nessa (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 2:55PM EST (link)

This is the entire point of that project, taking our party back from the squishes, Rinos and “go along to get alongs.” Granted, there are alot of ifs. If we fill the ranks with like minded conservatives, If they are less susceptible to television advertising, then throw in If the AZ primaries are open to independents, etc.

In the immortal words of my father, “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts it’d be Christmas every day!” (quote edited to conform to site posting rules) But, if this project is successful it could eliminate the power of television/print advertising from the equation. A candidate supported by a true grassroots movement wouldn’t need it to reach supporters. None of the Tea Party’s have used a significant amount of advertising. The internet, the decline of print media, the obvious leftward bias of television has combined to create a climate where the power of money could be eliminated, at least for the primary.

McCain may be too big a target to pick off first but faced with the prospect of enduring him for another six years it would be worth a shot wouldn’t it?

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Contributor to Unified Patriots

teh twitter

We're a long way from any incumbent senator needing us.

Achance (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 3:03PM EST (link)

All the money in the World can be focussed on those 100 seats. The ONLY states where an incumbent could be primaried are those with closed Republican primaries and even then it would be tough.

In Vino Veritas

 

Well nessa, in point of fact the AZ GOP in Maricopa County

mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 8:04PM EST (link)

has a small tilt against McCain. His guys got effectively tossed from the leadership of the county GOP in favor of folks who pretty much sound like me.

It will have essentially no effect on the ’10 election.

With respect to TV, Arizona is effectively a tiny state. We have two TV markets, Phoenix and Tucson. The rest of the state basically feeds off those markets. McCain can flood both markets and nobody can touch him. In addition, there are essentially two newspapers, the AZ Republic in Phoenix and the AZ Star in Tucson. The AZ R is a WaPo wannabe and the Star would be considered a leftist rag in Berkeley.

IF Hayworth decides to run, there will most likely be 4 names on the R primary ballot. I don’t much see Simcox leaving for any reason and the other jerk will just siphon off a couple of thousand votes. I’m pretty sure all the Tea Party attendees will vote against McCain. That’s probably less than 1% of the likely voters in the R primary.

Is it worth a shot? Sure. But it won’t even be the shot heard ’round my neighborhood let alone the country.

A shame becker, I've been disgusted by McCain for years.

nessa (Diary) Friday, October 9th at 9:06PM EST (link)

And I’ve only flown into AZ once. Watching and hearing him refer to Ronaldus Maximus as if McCain was ever a conservative has always nauseated me. Reagan’s introduction of him in his Shining City on a Hill speech always makes me cringe.

I think we’ll learn alot as we go through the 2010 election cycle. The power available to us through the Precinct Committeeman Project is a new variable. At least for us. Membership in the local county GOP is growing by leaps and bounds, most of the people I talk to get their news and daily info from the net. Those who don’t get links in their emails and exposure to the vast array of info here, and other places like this. The ability to sway opinion, plan and compare courses of action on the net could result in completely unforeseen results. If we can figure out how to use it. I have no doubt Cold Warrior is going through the MDMP right now on exactly these ideas. This is just the “conduct necessary reconnaissance” step in my TLPs so I’ll be ready.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Contributor to Unified Patriots

teh twitter