Christian “Sharia,” a Fear without a Foundation


There are covenants and then there are slaves. This to me sums up the difference between the Bible and Sharia law. So when I hear someone bemoaning the possible onset of Christian “Sharia” or fretting about legislating the Bible, I can only conclude that he is not well schooled in Judeo-Christian Theology.

A covenant is a lot like a contract, but unlike a contract, which pertains to mere business agreements, a covenant enters deeply into the territory of the familial. A covenant involves honor and love, whereas a contract is limited to a profit motive. A contract is but a pale shadow of all that a covenant is. Contracts are for commerce, whereas covenants are for families.

Throughout the Bible, God makes covenants with man, the specifics of which are dependent on where man is at in his long walk back to God. Covenants of old are different from the covenants of new, culminating with the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. In order therefore for the Bible to be properly understood, it must be understood as both a progression and a story of a developing relationship between a reluctant, barbaric, and habitually sinning man and his Creator. It should also be noted that the relationship theme throughout the Bible is not suitably described as master-slave. Rather, better analogies are father-child and bride-bridegroom. Again, covenantal agreements are born of love and commitment, which are alien to the master-slave relationship.

Are the covenants of the Old Testament applicable to the modern era? This is a lot like asking whether or not the rules you lived by as a 5 year old are also applicable to you as an adult. As a full grown adult, do you have a mandated bedtime? Are all your meals determined for you? Is dessert contingent on whether or not you finish your broccoli? Are you at risk of being spanked and sent to the nearest corner should you misbehave? These questions are quite obviously silly. Of course not is the answer in each case. You, as an adult, live by different standards and expectations than you did as a child. Covenants in the Bible, which are the stories of how God has lovingly interacted with His unruly creature, man, are best understood as a loving father raising a delinquent child and then eventually as a loving bridegroom betrothing a bride.

The critic, however, fearing the phantom of Christian “Sharia”, is apt to make an accusation not unlike the following:

“Leviticus is part of the Bible too, isn’t it? How can you then pick and choose what should and shouldn’t be emphasized? If you embrace the Bible, wouldn’t you as a Christian politician want to legislate these mandates of God? No . . . the case is clear that Christian politicians should expunge all Christian influence from their decision making as public servants.”

In the context of a covenantal understanding of the Bible, it’s patently absurd to accuse a Christian of wanting to legislate specific biblical laws like, for example, the dietary restrictions found in Leviticus. Again, the appropriate retort to the critic’s accusation is to ask him whether or not he lives by the same rules as he did when he was 5 years old and in the care/dependency of his parents.

The overarching virtues and the moral principles laid out in the Bible through various covenants are eternal, even if the expression and enforcement of them were specific to man’s level of spiritual development. For example, it is as wrong for a 5 year old to lie as it is for a full grown adult to lie. There is a vast difference, though, in how the lesson (i.e. lying is bad) is taught to a 5 year old compared to an adult. Different too are the consequences at each age. The timeless element, in either the case of child or adult, is the mandate to not bear false witness.

If a politician’s character, judgment, and civics were formed from a deep love and embrace of their Christianity, then non-Christians should not fear a legislative onslaught of Christian “Sharia”. As a matter of fact, I think it is precisely this kind of politician that would be the most wise, effective, fair, prudent, temperate, and just . . . because that is precisely what God asks humanity to be throughout the Bible. A politician who really lives the virtues of God is one worthy of public trust.  Fear not the devoutly Christian politician. He is not a slave to Allah wishing to impose an archaic penal code on a modern society. Rather, he is a lover of God and therefore a lover of virtue. He is a brother in Christ and dares to pray, “Our Father, Who art in Heaven.” If faithful to his calling as a human being, as willed and originally intended by God, then he will be a true champion of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. He will not seek power for power’s sake (which I believe is epidemic among the Democrats), but will instead foster the common good while trying to minimize government oppression. The dignity of man, man’s personal responsibility, and his call to charity will be cornerstones of a Christian politician’s judgment.

So, as in the days of old upon the founding of our country, I encourage a culture and a body politic influenced by Judeo-Christianity. May Obama’s post-Christian era never befall the United States . . . and I pray this from my keyboard to God’s ear.


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57 Comments Leave a comment

Outstanding as always.

Steph C (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 3:27PM EST (link)

Why is that so hard for nonbelievers to understand?

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

Steph,

mailloux (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 4:10PM EST (link)

Thank You!

In my opinion, a lot of the animosity toward Christianity has to do with the oldest of sins . . . aka Original Sin. It is the attempt by man to be gods. In a Godless society there is free license to engage in any vice imaginable. The result? I present to you Europe, the dying civilization.

Take Care, mailloux

amen 'lloux, Christian "sharia" is another name for freedom - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 11:17AM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Mike, now that's a way to pistol whip them with their own gun . . .

mailloux (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 3:28PM EST (link)

“Christian ‘sharia’ is another name for freedom” is an extremely effective statement. It declaws the accusation and spotlights the great promise of Christianity . . . and all in one sentence. Well done!

Thanks for reading, commenting, and the reco.

Take Care, mailloux

You would also loce Prager and Medved's Jewish take on just how

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 3:54PM EST (link)

wonderful it is to be a non-Christian and to live in Christian America vs all other venues ever on Earth!

and thanks guy

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

love not "loce" but truly, Judeo-Christian values are what produced the tolerance West Eur and the US have - see Pope's 2006

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 3:57PM EST (link)

speech at Regensburg that was delivered to make this point to the left in Europe that were all about cultural relativism

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=46474

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Mike, now that's a great speech . . . thanks for the link! (nt)

mailloux (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 4:08PM EST (link)
 
 
 
 

Eh

blood_star (Diary) Friday, June 12th at 3:41PM EST (link)

My “Animosity” if you want to call it that stems from being assaulted repeatedly in high school because they felt it would help me believe in god.

Of course, this extends to all religion in general so I’m not picking on Christianity in particular. But if someone want to preach to me and try to convert me, Well, if they get too aggressive, that’s why we have the second amendment :) Helps protect my right to enjoy the First.

“The bass, the rock, the mic, the treble, I like my coffee black, just like my Metal.” – MSI

Nice, etiquette states when using a small "g" in God you are insulting...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Friday, June 12th at 3:48PM EST (link)

Christian beliefs, next the last two sentences were in poor taste eventhough you used a smiley face meaing, you said it in jest. I am definitely not trying to yell at you I am just pointing out that Christians consider the small “g” in God as refering to idols and we do not much care for that treatment. Maybe it was an accident or you did it on purpose, either way it is free country after all.

 

First, I think you're lying. Second, perhaps you're in the wrong place. nt

Achance (Diary) Friday, June 12th at 3:51PM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

 

define "assaulted" and "too aggresive" - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, June 12th at 3:53PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

This isn't going to work out.

Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Friday, June 12th at 3:59PM EST (link)

It’s not us, it’s you.

Blam.

————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.

I suspect that the alleged assault and aggressiveness were neither - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, June 12th at 4:18PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

Leon, Achance, Mike, & DONTREADONME, thank you . . .

mailloux (Diary) Saturday, June 13th at 12:10AM EST (link)

for the assistance. I was away from the computer all day and I really do appreciate the RedState Cavalry dealing with a disingenuous attack such as that from blood_star.

Take Care, mailloux

No prob...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Saturday, June 13th at 12:40AM EST (link)

I do like being the cavalry, especially when people come by just to wear their manure covered dirty shoes on our nice clean floor. I also get very perturbed when I see God used with a small “g” when the topic of the diary is about Christianity.

 
 
 
 
 
 

I'm going to have to compile...

EvanWeeks (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 3:37PM EST (link)

…the progression of articles and comments of our (RedState’s) ongoing discussion of Christianity in politics into some contiguous form. There really has been, and continues to be, a wealth of wisdom being poured out here among those of us blogging and commenting on the issue, and it deserves to be shared.

5, reco and well done as usual, mailloux.

EvanWeeks – Dad. Conservative. Patriot.

need help?

molybdanthan (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 4:05PM EST (link)

I was interested in doing something like that too. It’s necessary to get a unified message, and win the arguments. I’d hate to still be hearing the same old debate 30 years from now.

 

EvanWeeks, such a compilation would be . . .

mailloux (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 4:20PM EST (link)

a most welcome resource.

Lukewarm Christians are widespread (admittedly, my opinion). Politically speaking, this is akin to the low hanging fruits. Step 1 in winning them to conservatism is showing them that their Christianity and politics are not oil and water. RedState is a great central resource . . . and from there it’s onto the Churches, the catechism lessons, the Sunday schools, the Church picnics, etc. Political correctness be damned . . . our culture is at stake.

Thanks for all that you are doing and for your own excellent writing. I assure you that evanweeks.com is now a bookmarked site on my computer.

Take Care, mailloux

Not just your opinion

fishbreath (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 3:20PM EST (link)

It’s the truth.

Recommendation, and good read.

fishbreath,

mailloux (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 4:17PM EST (link)

Thank You!

Take Care, mailloux

 
 
 
 

I had not heard of this concept of Christian "Sharia" law.

penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 3:40PM EST (link)

The left continues to say anything to undermine Christianity in this country.

There may be politicians with deep Christian convictions, but they must not be in an influential position of leadership.

Wonderful writing as always, Maillux. Thank you.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

penguin2, I forgot where I heard the term recently, but

mailloux (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 4:27PM EST (link)

it was on the web and was being blathered by some lefty. As an attack, however, it’s just more of the same message, which is for Christians to keep their faith bottled up . . . hermetically sealed at that!

Thanks for reading, commenting, and the reco too!

Take Care, mailloux

 
 

What a great explaination

wayneinnh (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 3:59PM EST (link)

I have tried several times to explain the difference between dietary, ceremonial, and moral laws in witness encounters. The 5 year-old analogy is perfect. I am going to borrow it, giving proper credit of course so I don’t have to head straight to repentence corner.

Jon 14:6 –
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”

It’s not intellectual to believe we evolved from hydrogen gas.

wayneinnh, please feel free to use it at will . . .

mailloux (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 4:31PM EST (link)

and don’t worry about credit. As far as I’m concerned, this is a team effort and I appreciate that you engage people in witness encounters.

Thanks for reading, your comments, and the reco too.

Take Care, mailloux

 
 

The "Christian Right" or "Bible Thumpers"

Common_Cents (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 4:15PM EST (link)

flows off the tongues of libs routinely, almost automatically. They generalize about the entire group. It’s etched into their minds and don’t even think about it.

But they would never dare do that with a terrorist linked to other faiths.

When you ask them they can never tell you one specific incidence of their lives being impacted by Christians. Similar to the politicizing of Bush’s assault on the constitution via Patriot Act. Mindless conformist demogurgitation.

Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from, behind, the Back Nine.
Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.

Common_Cents, great points and a fair challenge . . .

mailloux (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 4:36PM EST (link)

It supports the notion that Christianity is no “threat” to the body politic . . . for there is no evidence of it. Christianity is not being spread with the encouragement of an AK-47.

Take Care, mailloux

 
 

Excellent work mailloux

Matthew Morris (Diary) Tuesday, June 9th at 4:48PM EST (link)

Reco’d, of course. We need a longer Reco list, for your diaries alone.

While I have not heard the phrase used, I have encountered it at every turn in lefty land. Years ago I became fascinated with the strange reality that we live in, where the faithful and those hostile towards God almost always find themselves on opposite sides
of a dividing line…. the center aisle in the House Chamber. It is a big task wrapping your mind around the peculiarity of this fact, with all of its intricacies and implications.

I like to fall back on one of Thomas Sowell’s great works, A Conflict of Visions. The constrained view of man versus the unconstrained view of man sums it up pretty well.


“I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Ipsum esse subsistens

MrMosis,

mailloux (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 3:26PM EST (link)

Thanks for the reco and the too kind compliment.

There does seem to be that party of death quality to the Democrats. If it’s contrary to Christian ethics, it’s likely supported by the Democrats. That’s almost a sure bet.

I’m guilty of not being too well read concerning Thomas Sowell’s writings. He’s been on the to-read list, but something else always seems to edge him out. This summer I should correct that.

Take Care, mailloux

 
 

555-nt

RedWhite_and_Truth (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 9:00AM EST (link)

Coersion, after all, merely captures man. Freedom captivates him.
– Ronald Reagan

“Anyone that wants the presidency so much that he’ll spend two years organizing and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office.”
—David Broder

RedWhite_and_Truth,

mailloux (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 3:27PM EST (link)

Thank You!

Take Care, mailloux

 
 

A matter of faith

wordsarepower (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 9:18AM EST (link)

What non-believers don’t “get” is faith. It’s illogical. Before I was born again I didn’t get faith either, but now I wouldn’t live any other way. Living by the principals laid out in the Holy Bible is living in total freedom. There is no way for a non-beliver to understand that.

Pray for those you love, but pray harder for the lost.

The crazy thing about faith...

EvanWeeks (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 9:36AM EST (link)

…it’s most often a choice rather than some inexplicable feeling or dead-to-rights intellectual certainty. There are some days I wake up and don’t feel particularly faithful, but I make the choice to behave as though I am, and faith often surprises me.

And I agree on the characterization of faith as freedom. The comfort of knowing my path is defined, and was before I was born, that my choices are clear regardless of my attempts to fog the issue with humanistic drivel, is incredible. I don’t have to worry over choosing my own path or avoiding big pitfalls. And that’s to say nothing of the liberating power of grace.

EvanWeeks – Dad. Conservative. Patriot.

 
 

I fear I'm going to start a Natural Law debate again, but...

Slightly_Askew (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 3:14PM EST (link)

I would maintain that a law based on biblical principles (such as “Don’t murder!”) stands just fine on its own without necessarily defending it by pointing out it is in the Bible.

I think that when people fear faith based legislation, whether it be Sharia or Christian, they are fearing a law that flies in the face of our founding document. I’ve personally never worried that there would ever be any type of “Christian Sharia”, since most Christians I know understand that their faith is a personal thing, not something to be forced onto others, unlike Sharia law in Middle Eastern countries.

If I have any fear of a Christian Sharia, it is from the left. Distribution of wealth could be sold to naive Christians as doing Christ’s charitous work on a national scale. I’ve even heard that argument when I’ve argued against nationalized healthcare. “Doesn’t God want us to care for the sick that can’t care for themselves?”

and to add to what you said Askew

kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 3:44PM EST (link)

I have spoken with some people who were turned off, or frightened away from embracing the founder’s doctrine of natural rights, on the basis that they thought it meant you had to embrace religion.

I, of course, berated them for such a silly view point, but there you have it, some people have such knee jerk anti-religion sentiment that they become idiots whenever the subject comes up.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 

Slightly_Askew, Christianity is a total body (and soul) experience . . .

mailloux (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 3:58PM EST (link)

Sure, there are private elements to its practice, such as which church you attend and your prayer life, but Christianity was never meant to be a practice almost entirely divorced from the rest of one’s life.

Even if a Christian is not actively in the business of evangelizing by speaking of the Gospel, he can still quietly evangelize by living a pious life characterized by love. Either way, the Christian is expanding his Christianity from just Sunday into the rest of the week.

As far as “legislating” the Bible goes, I still stand by the post. It’s a misnomer.

The rest of the post has more to do with encouraging politicians who happen to be Christian to go ahead and allow their Christian-formed consciences to aid in their judgment of legislation and policy. God enlightens the mind . . . after all He is omniscient. Before any big decision, I pray about it. What’s wrong with that?

Christianity has a whole system of virtues and ethics (these are more general principles rather than specific laws of any one particular covenant). Why can’t a Christian politician use that to help judge the prudence of some policy?

If I were a Christian politician (I’m at least half of it . . . a Christian, but not a politician), I would not hesitate to admit that I pray for to God for good judgment and that I look to the millennia of Judeo-Christian thought to help me make good decisions. If a voter was bothered by that, I’d simply recommend he don’t vote for me.

Thank you for taking the time to comment!

Take Care, mailloux

Slightly_Askew, a short P.S.

mailloux (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 4:14PM EST (link)

Thanks too for the reco!

I also wanted to mention that I agree that one can make a case for penalizing murder without religion. One can do the same for abortion as well as traditional marriage. So, I unreservedly agree that an appeal can be made to the non-Christian voter using other, more secular justifications for conservative policies.

For example, regarding traditional marriage, I could make a secular case that traditional marriage is the best, most reliable means of securing a law abiding future population. Therefore, government has an interest in protecting it and encouraging it. On the other hand, I would also not hesitate to admit that I am mightily influenced by my Christianity when it comes to my position on traditional marriage. Again, if this is unappealing, the voter could simply choose someone else. I’d be lying if I tried to say I’m not influenced by my Christianity and I’d be a hypocrite if I lived one thing on Sunday and something else for the rest of the week.

Finally, one thing the Christian politician can rely on is the truth. God is the author of it. If something is true, then proofs will be found in both the Bible and in natural law . . . the two have the same author.

Thanks again for raising very interesting questions.

Take Care, mailloux

That's the crux of my argument

Slightly_Askew (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 4:52PM EST (link)

You have a perfectly reasonable secular argument against same sex marriage that can be argued logically. Whether I agree or not, we can debate the issue. Religion is, as you said, faith based. It does not rely on logic. You cannot have a reasonable discourse on the merits of a law if your defense is “’cause God said so”.

From that, I would simply do the math. You’re not going to alienate any Christians by explaining the secular case for a cause they already believe in, but you will alienate secularists by saying you’re passing a law based on your Christian faith. I would wager that a large number of people who are against a law supporting traditional marriage only oppose such a law because some Christians have made it a religious issue instead of a social one.

That is why I have no problem with prayer in the Senate, no issues with pastors supporting candidates, no worries that a Supreme Court Justice attends Midnight Mass, don’t really care if the Governor prays five times a day toward Mecca, but will stand up and say, “Wait just a gol’ durned minute!” when people start talking about how “Jesus would want X law passed” or “It’s Allah’s will that Y be done”.

Oh, and thanks for the civility!

Slightly_Askew (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 4:55PM EST (link)

Slightly_Askew, civility is a given . . .

mailloux (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 6:05PM EST (link)

among friends and fellow conservatives.

I think it’s too simplistic an image of Christianity to say a devoutly Christian politician would say, “Jesus would want X law passed.” Christianity doesn’t so much supply a set of rules (as does Sharia in Islam), but an ethic . . . or, in other words, an entire way of being. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s but give unto God what is God’s is not a line espousing separation of church from civic life. It’s a message that you are, as a Christian, expected to be fully transformed as a human being into a saint. The details of civics will follow naturally. It need not be a primary or separate focus. It’s the old cart before the horse warning.

So, I still stand by my assertion that a Christian politician is a credit to politics if he works diligently on his Christian character. This will naturally affect his judgment, which he uses when determining public policy. To me you cannot bottle up Christianity . . . a politician can claim so, but I would find it not quite believable.

Thank you for an excellent discussion.

Take Care, mailloux

 
 
 
 

A very insightful observation about the Christian left

civil truth (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 5:49PM EST (link)

It is indeed the Jim Wallis’ and others on the Christian left who want to enact their vision of a Biblical mandate of social justice by utilizing the coercive power of the state to taken money from one group of people to redistribute to another, rather than voluntary behavior. At the same time, as soon it comes to lifestyle, sudden the Christians need to retreat into a closet. (Though to be fair, many of the evangelical Christian left do hold a pro-life position in terms of unborn children – unlike liberals from mainline denominations who celebrate and bless abortion.)

And the next step, as we’ve seen with “Christian Marxists” in power in other nations is to downright confiscate the property and businesses of citizens because they believe they can do a better job, and then to imprison or “reeducate” (or liquidate) those who disagree with their vision of God’s demands for a society. And the more the economy collapses, the more they blame people’s greed and laziness and counterrevolutionary thoughts as the cause and clamp down even harder.

And sooner or later, they always end up prescribing lifestyle and sexual behavior too.

Whereas from my viewpoint, my greatest motivator on social issues is to take out of the hands of the courts and return them back to the legistlative process at the lowest level feasible. And once it’s in the hands of legislators, then we engage in that democratic process of enacting laws to reflect the prevailing views of the governed by consent of the governed.

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

http://www.gmsplace.com/

 
 

Constitutions

DonPMitchell (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 9:50PM EST (link)

When it comes to laws, I perfer our constitution to any kind of religious covenant. Christian or muslem, I don’t want anyone telling me that I have to obey them because they claim to speak on behalf of god.

I was very concerned by Huckabee’s statement last year that the constitution should be amended to bring it in line with biblical law. I’m concerned when people try to teach creation science in public schools. And let’s be clear, we are not talking about mainstream christianity here, we are talking about fundamentalist theology. If you’re a methodist or a lutheran, they still feel that your child has to be taught fundamentalism.

This conflation of conservatism and the Republican party with fundamentalist christianity is narrowing the appeal of the party and leaving many of us with a feeling that nobody represents our priorities for science, education and capitalism.

Goldwater: In your heart, you know he’s right

In point of fact, those instances aren't examples of "fundamentalist Christianity"

aesthete (Diary) Wednesday, June 10th at 11:23PM EST (link)

Christianity’s “fundamentals”, if I had to give you the abridged version, are freedom from spiritual bondage (and freedom in general, to secularize it) and selfless love. Those two are exemplified most clearly by Jesus sacrificing himself so that we could live free from sin, and choose to have a relationship with him. Again, extremely abridged, but if these are Christianity’s fundamentals, I think it’s difficult to argue that any of the examples that you mention are representative of them. I would also say that such ideas are, fortunately enough, not the mainstream in the Republican party.

I agree with you regarding both Huckabee’s statement and the idea of teaching creationist science in public schools (I don’t think that a required class full of impressionable kids is the appropriate venue for a discussion on origins), but I would argue that there are few who fit the classic political caricature painted of religion in politics. For example, most apologists for “creation science” don’t advocate the exclusive teaching of same in the classroom, and not many argue for even a presentation of both evolution and intelligent design. What I hear most often is that textbooks should not have fraudulent or discredited evidence to promote evolution, and that it should not all be presented as being equally factual, or lumped in with other theories to construct an origins narrative (i.e., microevolution has more proof than macro, evolution as an origin has less proof than macroevolution as a general theory, and macroevolution has more proof than the Big Bang).

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

The separation, to me, needs to fall along the following lines...

EvanWeeks (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 11:38AM EST (link)

First, science is and has been a separate discipline from philosophy, which is the sister to theology. Science seeks hard, concrete facts in a quest to answer the question, “How?” Whereas philosophy and theology seek through logic and debate to answer the question “Why?” Combining either philosophy or theology with the hard sciences results in a muddying of the objective as well as a corruption of both logic and the scientific process. It is best, in my opinion, to keep these things separated. Now, this is not to say that the objectives of science cannot be motivated by religious conviction or philosophical beliefs.

Separating philosophy and theology, however, is a much more difficult proposition. The former has, since Grecian-Roman times been concerned with the latter, and vice-versa. It is very often that we see Aristotle, Plato and others quoted by Augustine, Aquinas, etc. and these relationships built upon themselves throughout European history, with such philosophers as Heidegger and Kant drawing the inspiration their examinations of reality and being from theological conclusions drawn by men who came before.

This relationship, of course, coupled with the Roman Catholic Church’s direct involvement in government throughout the11th-14th centuries, ensures that religion is inseparably intertwined with a very great deal of the political thinking that led directly to the creation of our current form of government. Religious freedom, for instance, was a Baptist idea brought over by the theologian/governors Roger Williams and John Clarke, co-founders of the Rhode Island colony in early-to-mid 17th century. John Milton, who served under Oliver Cromwell, was a major proponent of Freedom of Expression, and yet his masterpiece Paradise Lost is an epic about Christian heroism.

To be quite frank, I don’t know that the ideals we so love to discuss and dream about are even possible apart from the grace of a loving God, and the willingness of a group of godly, faithful men to defend them. I find, as I write and read others, that true moral courage (which requires stark honesty with oneself) rarely, if ever, exists outside of that realm.

EvanWeeks – Dad. Conservative. Patriot.

 
 
 

Reco'd as always

Lammo (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 12:11AM EST (link)

but for some reason when I click the reco button here at home nothing happens. When I do it from work the You have recommended this diary dialogue box pops up and my name is added to the list. Not so here at home. Maybe a Firefox (home) v. IE (work) thing? Anyway, brilliant and insightful as always. Thanks!

Mark

Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)

Done at work -nt-

Lammo (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 1:31PM EST (link)

Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)

 

Lammo,

mailloux (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 2:37PM EST (link)

Thank you for going the extra mile on the reco!

Admittedly, I’m not the most computer literate guy. Sometimes I too haven’t been able to reco and had to wait several hours to try at a later time or place with eventual success. I never bothered to figure out why, but again, I’m not a very technical fellow. To tell you the truth, I’d rather be in the kitchen cooking than figuring out all the intricacies of computers and the Internet . . . and that’s probably the result of having an Italian mother (both of her parents were immigrants . . . legal ones too!). Good food (chased down with a little Chianti) trumps the computer any day.

Take Care, Mark (mailloux)

 
 

Partly disagree with your diary, mailloux

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 12:11AM EST (link)

As a Christian, I would agree that there is no fear that a “Sharia lite” would be enacted by a mature Christian who has no shame in his Christianity, or in making decisions based on these beliefs. In truth, is impossible to be a committed Christian without it affecting one’s worldview, and the politician who says that he can compartmentalize the two is either confused or disingenuous. The fact that we as a culture have embraced the Judeo-Christian ethic is evident, so much so that even committed leftists/atheists do so without noticing (“End Violence in Rwanda”, “Stop World Hunger”, etc).

That said, I can’t agree that there is no fear of a “Sharia-lite” ever becoming part of the political landscape. Indeed, many examples of religious authoritarianism color America’s political landscape, from prohibition to Sunday Blue laws, and even recently, in attempts to legislate online gambling out of existence and to frame the social net, “free” healthcare, NCLB, etc. as “compassionate Conservatism”, i.e., Christian.

Examples of “Christian” authoritarianism are even more evident when one expands his scope beyond the US, which has remained relatively free of such things. For example, Venezuela’s current leader, Hugo Chavez, allied himself with and proclaimed himself to be Christian, and many of his policies have been justified with his saying that the is a “devout Catholic”. He even ushered in some of the toughest laws on abortion in Venezuela as part of his campaign for his first (and only, IMO) election. Paraguay’s current President is the “Bishop of the Poor”, Fernando Lugo, whose “Christian principles” led him to run on a socialist platform. It’s certainly not hard to find examples of overreach in Medieval Europe :)

To me, it’s clear that there is a tradition of religiously-influenced statism, and in that regard, I would say that there is some cause for alarm when it comes to some politicians. I would say, as you so eloquently do, that it is not because of Christianity, but instead such examples are oftentimes a result of an immature or incomplete understanding of Christianity. Not to step on anyone’s toes, but that to me was one of the many things that bothered me about frmr. Gov. Huckabee, and comments like the one that he made to the effect of replacing the Constitution with a “God-approved” version of the same truly disturb me. Given that we just came off of “compassionate conservatism”, and the subsequent muddling of the social conservative brand, I think that wariness from libertarians and the less religious is justified, even if a little unfair.

To conclude, I agree with your conclusion that a mature Christian guided by the Holy Spirit will not impose religious mandates on others (and I reco’d the diary for that reason), but I think that we have to be aware that there is a strain of Christianity intent on doing that very thing, even within our own ranks, and that as such, we have to acknowledge that there is some foundation for such a fear, even if such fear is misdirected, and work on ways to educate those who believe this meme in good faith. Cheers!

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

The ideal that the world can be changed into some

Vaughn Harold (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 7:55AM EST (link)

utopia be Christian, libertarian, secular, etc in concept, is a lie that even some Christians have historically bought into, but as long as “sin” exists there can be no such utopia, for mankind does not have to power to remove this evil from his very being, no matter how hard he may try to teach, liberate, or legislate it out of society.

The best a society can do is try to restrain its influence in ways such as our own constitution has done, but even our constitution requires that the people acknowledge and understand in some way sin’s power over themselves, in order to frame, execute, and judge legislation correctly. Apart from this shared view of mankind’s condition our nation will splinter, as we are seeing, and eventually like other societies fail.

 

aesthete, your commentary might as well be a follow-up diary . . .

mailloux (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 10:13AM EST (link)

As always, you’ve added insight and enriched our understanding of the topic.

I concede that there is a nearly inexhaustible litany of religious abuses, of which you pointed out a few. There have been many who have attempted to use Christianity as just another political tool in their arsenal. It is precisely this sort of behavior that gives atheists, agnostics, and folks of all other religious persuasions pause when they run across a diary such as mine. So too, Huckabee did make statements in that same vein (by the way, I was and still am a Fredhead . . . how I wish and pray that Fred Thompson was our current president!).

To a certain degree, I think it is true that the abuse of religion has fueled the kneejerk societal reaction to encourage the private compartmentalization of Christianity. Other reasons also add to this phenomenon, including, I believe, the fact that Christianity crimps hedonistic tendencies, which our culture seems to be engaging in with fervor.

The current situation with Christianity and politics reminds me greatly of humanity’s propensity for extremes. I think reacting to abuses of religion in politics by moving to completely eradicate every vestige of religion from civics is a prime example of such an extreme reaction. It’s the old, “throwing the baby out with the bath water,” reaction. On the other hand, there really are some fundamentalist preachers who would advocate legislating very specific laws of the Bible (also, there’s an aside here that I wanted to note . . . in no way am I advocating the legislation of biblical covenants instead of specific biblical laws; the nature of a covenant is not really amenable to legalization. A covenant is more accurately described as a relationship rather than merely biblically based do’s and don’ts. A relationship in all its richness and nuances is an awfully hard thing to legislate.).
The better solution (and I think we do agree on this) is what I hoped to have communicated in my diary, even if my effectiveness as a writer is lacking. What I hoped to say in my diary is all of the following:

1. It’s best to understand the Bible as a story of covenants between God and man rather than simply a list of God-given do’s and don’ts. Hence, fears of legislating the Bible are unwarranted so long as one has a more in depth and accurate understanding of Christianity.

2. Christian politicians should not be afraid to live their Christianity openly. It’s OK to say grace before a meal in public. It’s OK to pray for wisdom when making important decisions both in your personal and professional life. It’s OK to wear a cross in public. In other words, the diary was a call to Christians not to hide their Christianity and attempt to compartmentalize it from their daily life. A devout person is being disingenuous if he believes he can un-Christianize his secular life. We are not machines, we are persons and such a separation is plainly impossible.

3. Finally, the diary was also a call out to non-Christians. It was meant to be somewhat of an assurance that a devout Christian, genuinely trying to do his Christian duty, will make for a good public servant. He will be someone that treasures liberty, wisdom, and justice. Sure, his Christianity will influence his values and judgment, but absent Christianity, something must influence our values. The Christian politician is, therefore, no different than any other and does not deserve to be brow beaten by his own Bible and cowed into apologizing for and hiding his Christianity.

Thanks so much again for your commentary!

Take Care, mailloux

 

aesthete

Wing Zero (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 12:34PM EST (link)

I agree mostly with what you have said, and my take on this is that they misunderstand or deliberately pervert the nature of Christ.

You should see some of the pictures of Jesus I have seen. They paint him as some kind of Third World revolutionary in the vein of “Che.” How sad for people that don’t really understand Jesus.

1-21-09 – We are so screwed… Wait… maybe not just yet.

But don't you see?

EvanWeeks (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 1:08PM EST (link)

That’s the same mischaracterization of Jesus’ ministry and mission that has been going on for millenia. The Jews thought the messiah would be a King, to lead them to victory against their enemies and secure their freedom and primacy in God’s eyes. Crying “God wills it,” Pope Urban II declared the first Crusade to reclaim the Holy Land.

People will always be willing to pervert the beliefs of a people to secure support for whatever expansion of power they’re after. See Islamic radicalism for a mirror-image of this tendency.

EvanWeeks – Dad. Conservative. Patriot.

Totally Agree EvanWeeks

Wing Zero (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 2:08PM EST (link)

I eagerly await Christ’s return to set all this garbage straight. I hope there’s a History class in Heaven where everything taught is through the eyes of God. Until then I scrape through books here trying to discern what really happened (difficult) and great historical figures intentions (even more difficult.)

That’s what gets me angry at people that claim religion is to blame for all of man’s ills. MAN is to blame for all of man’s ills. Anytime we stray from the guide lines God has set before us, disaster falls.

1-21-09 – We are so screwed… Wait… maybe not just yet.

 
 
 

Another thought: The imposing of one's beliefs on others is not a strain of Christianity;

Vaughn Harold (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 3:16PM EST (link)

it’s just another strain of sin that is self evident throughout history. We must not confuse Christianity with the works of the flesh by grouping terms together like “Christian” authoritarianism. We must as a society learn to discern a persons character by the works they have done whether they are Christian or un-Christian instead of the titles that they carry (R), (D), Christian, Muslim, Black, White, Hispanic, etc, for we are all prone to the same vices because we are “man”.

 
 

You've nailed it

Wing Zero (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 11:12AM EST (link)

Once again you’ve nailed an idea I’ve had floating around in my head for a while. To me the most definitive sign of the Holy Spirit at work is when I run into Christians that don’t know each other coming to the same conclusions or having the same ideas within days, or sometimes hours of each other.

I really believe God wants Christians involved in government, as we are the salt of the earth. I in my humble opinion believe He will ask us why we didn’t vote, or run for office, or get more involved in defending our rights and freedoms when we are judged.

1-21-09 – We are so screwed… Wait… maybe not just yet.

Wing Zero,

mailloux (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 2:45PM EST (link)

Thank you for the comment and the reco too!

I think you are quite correct in terms of our accountability. We, in our earthly life, live in but a tiny sliver of reality, the present. Each and every moment of the present that we are afforded is an accountable moment where we get to exercise our free will to either serve God or something else. Serving God doesn’t end on Sunday and it isn’t just something we do in our private life. It’s every bit as pertinent to our professional and civic lives too. God will indeed judge each Christian as to whether that Christian’s time was time well spent.

Take Care, mailloux

 
 

This is Freedom

Wing Zero (Diary) Thursday, June 11th at 5:25PM EST (link)

Freedom.

When God says in the 7th Commandment, “Thou shalt not commit adultery” It really is freedom.

By not committing adultery and staying faithful to my wife, I have freedom from any problems that might cause in my marriage. I have freedom from any strange diseases I would otherwise pick up. I have a clear conscience when I deal with my wife during difficult issues. I don’t have to worry about having kids with another woman, or the problems that brings up.

When God tells me in Proverbs 20:10 that Differing weights and measures are an abomination to Him, he frees me from bigotry, poor business dealings, racism, and a slew of other poor behaviors and choices by telling me to treat everyone one the same in my dealings. He tells me to charge properly for goods and services. He frees me from man’s sinful nature and any inclination to cheat anyone.

When God tells me in the second chapter of James to treat the rich and poor the same, he gives me freedom to love everyone that walks in the Church doors with the love of Christ. I’m free to build the Church (Church as in body of Christ) one person at a time meeting their individual needs. I’m free from class warfare, and the hate and resentment it brings.

These are just some of the examples. I’m sure other RedStaters could come up with even better examples, as I consider myself a “noob” writer when I read the diaries on this site.

Bottom line – There is freedom in the boundaries God has set in his word. Problems only arise when Man tries to apply his boundaries on another man, or worse, God.

1-21-09 – We are so screwed… Wait… maybe not just yet.

Wing Zero, your comments here qualify as both beautiful and insightful . . .

mailloux (Diary) Friday, June 12th at 11:57PM EST (link)

Thank you for sharing this. It should be a diary in and of itself!

Take Care, mailloux