Promoted by Erick
Now the primary is over and the votes are in, it’s time we all join together to throw Jon Corzine out of New Jersey for good.
Mayor Steve Lonegan ran a hard fought race, brought in far more votes than the party leadership expected, and garnered support from an electorate that does not traditionally support staunchly conservative candidates. I’ve personally volunteered for Mayor Lonegan in a previous run for office. I know him to be a man of great leadership and for that reason, and so many more, I hope Mayor Lonegan quickly comes to the aide of Christie in his run against Corzine, and I hope those who supported Lonegan’s candidacy will do the same. If we don’t work together in this election, our party will surely fail.
Christie’s for smaller government, fiscal responsibility, high ethical standards, and he’s pro-life. But just as importantly, he’s the candidate who can win the general election in the Garden State. He can restore confidence in a state plagued with political scandal; and with a proven track record over the last eight years as U.S. Attorney, he would restore New Jerseyans’ faith in their statewide leader. But that being said, it will take any candidate awhile to restore what has been lost under the Democrats rule in my beloved home state.
Most importantly, Chris Christie is a born and bred New Jersey Republican, and let me assure you that matters in a state that is frequently the butt of jokes and unfair stereotypes. In a state like New Jersey where people are fiercely proud and loya, and the Republicans are few and far between, it’s wonderful to know a committed leader who is also a New Jersey native. (As if you need reminding, the current governor most definitely is not.)
One aspect of New Jersey politics that tends to go unrecognized in national reporting is the level of power held in the governor’s office. The New Jersey Governor is the most powerful governor in the Union, and responsible for appointing EVERY state cabinet secretary, including the attorney general and the secretary of state. And he (or she) appoints all members of the boards and commissions members and all judges except the municipal types. Let me say that again – nearly EVERY judge in the state is appointed by the governor.
We NEED a Republican governor in Trenton.
New Jersey is a complicated state for the Republican Party. While it’s fiscally conservative, the electorate is decidedly more moderate on social issues. We clearly can’t change all that today, but we can take a hard look at our political priorities and back the man who will best fight for them.
Let’s face it; Jon Corzine is in DIRECT OPPOSITION not only to our party, but to all of our principles. And he will stop at nothing to win.
Corzine is a liberal Democrat who played a hand in the fall of Wall Street and the decimation of our 401Ks. He is appointing judges and state board members (to the HUNDREDS of PAYING boards and commissions in the state) and making decisions that are most certainly NOT in line with our principles, or the best interests of any of the voters.
New Jersey needs Chris Christie. And if I were still registered there, as a solidly conservative Republican, I’d vote for Republican Chris Christie. But since I can’t vote in my home state anymore, I’ll give every spare ounce of time and effort to helping him get elected and convincing those conservatives who backed Lonegan that Christie is now the best pick for the job. My friends and family who still reside there deserve a leader who will fix what has been broken for so long.
Please join me in supporting Chris Christie.
Moe Lane
Dan McLaughlin
Neil Stevens
Steve Maley
Christie Count on me!
tedpomeroy (Diary) Friday, June 5th at 11:28AM EST (link)I am in Bergen County
Where are you?
Morris County, here
Chemical Sam (Diary) Friday, June 5th at 12:40PM EST (link)I would be voting Republican down the line if Elmer Fudd were running for Governor here. Anything to get rid of John “still blaming Bush” Corzine.
“Dump the Democrats!”
Criterion Chemical was in the black for FY2010!
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Christie
Dencal26 Friday, June 5th at 1:58PM EST (link)I initially supported Christie but became disenchanted with his negative ads and lies about Lonegan on taxes. Lonegan is a Flat Taxer . Moving to a different system would cause some to pay more and some to pay less. But anyone is better than Corzine so this Manalapan NJ resident will be voting for Christie.
Party Unity time!
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Friday, June 5th at 2:19PM EST (link)As the diarist said, the primary is over. It’s time for ALL Republicans to come together to support OUR candidate. Christie may not be your chosen candidate in the primary, but is FAR better than Corzine or any other Democrat. Time to put interparty rivalry aside and start working to get your party’s candidate elected.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
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I'm dissapointed
paul_yankees Saturday, June 6th at 12:49AM EST (link)Now you say something about NJ governors race. We had such a great chance to win with a hard conservative, but so many of you people with a voice bigger than the average citizen didn’t take advantage of it.I have heard to many people say how great Lonegan is, but were not there for him during his campaign. I listened to too many people rave about Lonegan and back Christie. I really wish Lonegan had won, because plain and simple Christie is a Liberal Republican, he moved right for the campaign and still wasn’t far enough. That being said we do need to get Corzine out of here. It will be a direct slap in the face to Obama because we all know he will be supporting him..
Christie is Pro-Life and Pro-traditional marriage
its_a_right_wing_thing (Diary) Saturday, June 6th at 11:50AM EST (link)According to his campaign website
http://www.christiefornj.com/on-the-issues
if this is what makes Mr. Christie liberal, then I guess I’d like to see more liberals like him run under the Republican label. I don’t know a thing about Lonegan but if he’s so great, than maybe Gov. Christie can put him in his cabinet.
In NJ’s case, I think it will take a “liberal” Republican to win office in this traditionally blue state. You can’t (and I don’t) expect Christie to be a true hardline conservative otherwise someone like that couldn’t get elected in a progressive state like NJ. From the MSNBC article I read, he was the only Republican leading all the polls in head-to-head competition including the only one beating Corzine.
Update: http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2009/06/poll-corzine-still-trailing-christie.html
Christie holds a 51-38% advantage over Corzine in the latest poll…..
Know what I think? I think he’s a guy that could turn blue states red in 2012 or 2016 if he’s first successful at winning Gov. in a typically liberal blue state of NJ. He talked about campagining in NJ about the differences between the Democrats and Republicans from what I read from this link:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/front_page/20090603_Christie_wins_N_J__GOP_gubernatorial_primary.html
Christie is the Republicans best chance in 12 years to get the Gov. back. He’s the one Republicans needed to win since he gives them that best chance to win. He had more money and more support (Romney) than Lonegan so it was just a matter of time that he’d have won the nomination.
I think he could be the start of a 2010 comeback that begins with him and includes Portman and Kasich in Ohio and concludes with the defeat of Reid in NV and Dodd in CT and maybe with luck (and NO ACORN) Toomey over Specter the Defector in 2010.
It is possible. From what I can tell so far, Republicans are putting out more qualified candidates than Dole and her unsuccessful run as NRSC chair in 2008 or the Republians run in 2006 when this mess started.
NJ needs a Conservative, not a Republican
tomphelan Sunday, June 7th at 9:56AM EST (link)The last “Republican” didn’t work out so well, did she? Chris Christie comes from the same social circle, is backed by the same people, says the same things as Whitman said during the primary, and has a similar history so there is no reason to expect anything different from him in the unlikely event that Corzine doesn’t rip him to shreds and he manages to win the election. I drank the liberal NJ Republican establishment kool-aid and voted for Whitman on the grounds that she was not as bad as the Democrat. I won’t drink that kool-aid again.
NJ is like a drug addict who keeps coming back to the same thing that is killing him. And like a drug addict sometimes the only thing that works is letting him hit rock bottom. Perhaps what NJ needs is another 4 years of Corzine to really hit the bottom and then perhaps Republicans and the rest of the state will be ready to elect someone who can really solve our problems instead of merely cycling cronies in and out of Trenton swapping “R”s with “D”s and vice versa as we’ve been doing for decades.
I call on all Conservatives and people who care about NJ to vote for the 3rd party candidate of your choice or just write your own name in for Governor in November. And then, prepare for the next battle a few years from now (if you don’t move out of the state before then).
This kind of thinking will only move the party farther left.
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 10:27AM EST (link)And lose more elections. The more we lose the the lefties the more the party will prop up candidates like Crist in Florida and Specter (before he switched). The only way we can reverse the trend is to win elections! We can’t do that if people continue to follow your advice. It’s a long term losing strategy.
The only way we can get this party and the country back is to win elections. That means we fight a good fight in the primary supporting good conservative candidates. Then in the general, we back the party’s choice even if they weren’t our favorite. Then go on to fight for the soul of the party in the next primary.
Splitting the ticket by voting third party will only guarantee that Corzine wins this election and will guarantee that the party pics someone even more Democrat-litish for the next election.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
Yeah it is well past time for Republicans to stop "punishing" the Republican Party
Beaglescout (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 2:51PM EST (link)All it does is punish everybody to make a point that could be made by putting your lips together and blowing in a bronx cheer. To change the Republican Party requires joining it and changing it from the inside. So gather together like-minded conservatives and join your local NJ Republican Party organization. Help change the balance of the Republican Party in your state from socialist-lite to true-red-white-and-blue conservatism. Read the link for Paul Ryan’s speech on the true meaning of conservatism and the real difference the Republican Party can make locally, in the states, and nationally.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
Good thing we don't all think like you Tom Phelan
its_a_right_wing_thing (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 7:10PM EST (link)In case you didn’t notice, my comments regarding Mr. Christie on his Pro-Life and Pro-Traditional Marriage stance come from right off his campaign website meaning should he fail to live up to these supposed values of his, the voters can point directly to the lies he promised.
As for you falling for Christine Todd Whitman, yes I remember her, and a quick look at her stances on the issues should have raised red flags.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Christie_Todd_Whitman.htm
Dec. 2000 Supports Abortion Rights
Fight “bias crimes” based on gender or disability. (Dec 2000)
Supports affirmative action. (Dec 2000)
Supports gay rights. (Dec 2000)
Economic opportunity regardless of gender or ethnicity. (Sep 2000)
Do not allow president’s power to corrupt feminist values. (Oct 1998)
If you think Corzine is “going to rip him to shreds” then you haevn’t seen the latest polls have you? The ones that already showed Christie beating Corzine prior to the nomination have him comfortably up 13% points in the latest USA today poll. Perhaps you need to re-read my comments or this poll.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2009/06/poll-corzine-still-trailing-christie.html
So you are conceding Corzine another 4 years until NJ “hits bottom” I got news fior you, he aint gonna get another 4 years and Christie is the best candidate to come along for your state in oh, 12 years or so.
As for your 3rd party advice, that is just giving away votes for Corzine which you seem okay with doing. No one is gonna listen to that defeatist crap and they should have to throw a vote away. If you don’t want to vote for Christie stay home.
Stop drinking the liberal Republican's kool-aid.
tomphelan Sunday, June 7th at 1:29PM EST (link)Electing liberals with an “R” after their name is making things worse. Electing moderately liberal Republicans to office merely strengthens the liberal Republicans and ensures there is no opposition party just a very liberal Democrat party and a moderately liberal Republican party.
Conservatives have to start electing conservative Republicans not just people with an “R” after their name. What if Gerald Ford had won in 76, would we have had Ronald Reagan? If Ford had won the conservative wing of the Republican Party would have been marginalized. The loss of the moderately liberal Ford was the key to turning around the Republican Party for years and putting real conservatives in positions of power in the party.
Electing Christie will be disastrous for the Republican Party in NJ because it will further cement the liberal Republican’s control of the NJ Republican party. A loss will help loosen the liberal Republican’s grip and is the only way a true conservative has a chance of winning a state-wide race in NJ. The same is true in other states and nationally. Electing moderately liberal Republicans does nothing but strengthen them and marginalize conservatives.
Have you listened to the party leaders?
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 1:56PM EST (link)Our battle with Cornyn is a prime example of what happens when people follow your advice. We don’t like the NRSC getting into the primary process. The NRSC is so terrified that they will lose the Senate seat, they are willing to back a squish in the primary in order to get someone they think is electable. Cornyn has given as his justuifcation for selecting a lib the fact that Republicans have been losing too many elections.
We are not being marginalized because of our ideology. We are being marginailized because we are losing elections. We are losing elections because people won’t support the candidates that win the primaries. We have to stop the cycle of election losses before we can take back the party. If that means backing a squish who won the primary, so be it. The time to fight ideological battles is in the primary. But we have to win enough general elections to survive to fight in the next primary.
Start playing the long game or lose forever.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
So, your solution
Wayne (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 2:02PM EST (link)is to vote for a third party candidate, insuring another Corzine win?
That’s a great strategy. One that will insure more dem victories, in fact, one that insured the election of Obama.
So, if your idea is to give each candidate “your” litmus test and they don’t pass to your satisfaction, we should make sure the real, true liberal(democrat) gets elected, I think I’ll pass.
“Hell, these are Marines. Men like them held Guadalcanal, and took Iwo Jima, Baghdad ain’t s–t”. Maj. Gen. John F. Kelly, USMC, Deputy CG, First MEF
What about Ford?
tomphelan Sunday, June 7th at 2:32PM EST (link)You both ignore my Ford argument. If it were 1975 you’d be telling me to vote for Gerald Ford. The Republican Party was even worse shape then and desperately needed a win so your argument would go.
So tell me, should we have voted for Gerald Ford against Jimmy Carter in 1976? Answer this question please. And while your at it, please tell me what Reagan’s future would have been had Ford been the President in 76-80. The economy under Ford would have looked little different than it did under Carter which would have guaranteed a Democrat victory in 80 probably by Ted Kennedy.
My argument is that we face the same situation now. Let Corzine win and the double wammy of Obama in Washington and Corzine in Trenton will lead to much stronger victories 2 and 4 years from now. Sometimes a strategic retreat to regroup is best. Given what’s going on in Washington, and short of major reforms which Christie is not prepared to implement, the economy in NJ is doomed for the next few years. Given that the NJ economy is doomed for several years regardless of who is governor, isn’t it better that Corzine be in power and take the blame? The key to future victories is not winning a few battles now, but clearly laying the blame for the disaster that is to come at the feet of the Democrats. This is what Republicans need to do from Washington DC to every state capital. Everything we should do should be about laying the blame as it justly belongs on Democrats feet. Electing liberal Republicans that will share the blame does nothing but weaken us for the future.
Four more years of Corzine and Democrat control of the state house and not only will conservatives have a shot at Governor, we might also make significant gains on the legislative side.
You need to join the Republican Party instead of punishing it
Beaglescout (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 2:56PM EST (link)Join and advocate your positions for conservatism within the party. Voting against it is destructive of liberty, the Republican Party, and conservatism in general. Anyone who says you need to get the votes first, before making changes, is also wrong. The way to make changes is to join the party. There is no reason you can’t do that while you also vote for the liberal Republican. But at least the liberal Republican is at worst a socialist-lite and won’t go charging into full-fledged fascism with both barrels blazing like others that could be named.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
Reagan didn't abandon the party to punish it.
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 3:41PM EST (link)Which is what you’re asking us to do. Instead of fighting Ford after losing the nomination, he decided to back Ford. It was that act that kept him in the game until the next election cycle.
Let’s try doing the same.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
Ford's loss was a GOOD thing!
tomphelan Sunday, June 7th at 4:51PM EST (link)Reagan’s backing of Ford was just for show. A political necessity to keep himself viable for a run in 4 years. But let’s not pretend that elected Ford would have aided Reagan. Had Reagan’s backing of Ford resulted in a Ford victory, Reagan’s political career would have been over. What sealed Reagan’s victory was Ford’s DEFEAT which lead to a disastrous 4 years under Jimmy Carter. I put it too you all again, if Ford had won what would have happened?
The goal is not merely to elect people with “R”‘s after their names, the goal is to elect people that both share our conservative principals and have the conviction to stand by them when in office. Electing “moderate” Republicans hurts our cause because these “moderates” wind up caving to “bi-partisan” pressure to enact liberal or liberal-lite policies that the Republican Party eventually gets blamed for. Look at George H Bush’s administration. He was a “moderate” (and selecting him was Reagan’s biggest mistake) who caved to his conservative promise of no new taxes. What happened? Republicans were blamed for the economic downturn and we wound up with 8 years of the Philanderer In Chief. I could go on ad nauseam with examples of Republican “moderates” caving to liberal pressures leading to disastrous policies that Republicans got blamed for.
It’s time we stopped showing loyalty to every politician who runs under the Republican moniker.
I stand by my assertion that at this point in history our best strategy is to act like the minority party we are. Minority parties don’t have illusions of instituting policy changes. Instead, we should block the most radical changes if possible, but most importantly we should clearly articulate our ideals and make it absolutely clear who is to blame when the economy free falls. This will position us as the party with the plan to get us out of the mess we are headed for (you think it’s bad now, just wait). Electing “moderate” Republicans works completely against this and will do nothing but allow the Democrats to spread the blame and muddy the waters for future elections.
555+ nt
Danielle Davis (ocleverone) (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 4:53PM EST (link)To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher
Reagan knew enough to use political necessity.
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 5:10PM EST (link)That’s what I’m asking too. It’s political necessity to back the winner of the party nomination in order to remain enough of a force within the party to win the primaries in the next season.
I stand by my assertion that splitting the vote is always guaranteed to get you the worst outcome in an election.
OK, I’ll play a little of your game. It’s all hypothetical anyway and it wasn’t likely that Ford would win because he pardoned Nixon….
Had Ford won the election, we probably wouldn’t have the Iranian situation that we’re still dealing with 30 years later. Had Ford won the election, we probably wouldn’t have had the economic malaise than Carter induced. Had Ford won the election the Soviets probably wouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan which lead eventually to the rise of the Taliban and Al-Queda. Elections have consequences….
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
Victory requires risks
tomphelan Sunday, June 7th at 10:37PM EST (link)Gerald Ford would have done all that. You’ve got to be kidding. Ford would have stood up to the Soviets? Just like he did to the communists in Southeast Asia? I don’t for a moment think Ford would have stopped what was pretty much the inevitable collapse of the corrupt Shah of Iran nor the Soviets 60 year quest for warm water ports. The only thing that stopped the Soviets was Reagan’s massive increase in defense spending and his willingness to take risks and support the Soviet’s enemies both overtly and covertly. Would Ford have had the resolve and political strength to do these things? Would Ford have laid down the gauntlet and called the Soviet Union an Evil Empire. The Soviets understood Reagan very well, and they feared him. There would have been no such fear of a feckless Ford.
“Had Ford won the election, we probably wouldn’t have had the economic malaise than Carter induced…” Give one shred of evidence to prove that Ford was anything but a Democrat-lite when it came to domestic policy. Recall that Nixon had the bright idea to impose wage and price controls and Ford was cut from the same mold only slightly less corrupt. You can be sure that Ford wouldn’t have been able to get the Reagan style tax cuts that is what started almost 30 years of virtually uninterrupted prosperity.
A Ford presidency would have been slightly less of a disaster than Carter’s and we would be FAR worse off today because Reagan would have never been President.
I’m not saying that one should never vote for a moderate Republican. I have plenty of times. When conservatives were in power this made sense to strengthen our numbers. But it doesn’t take a Machiavellian scholar to know that helping a stronger adversary achieve victory is assuring your own defeat. Conservatives have lost control of the Republican Party to the “moderates” and the only way we’re going to regain control is by not strengthening the liberal wing of our party. In 2009 RINOs are more dangerous than liberal Democrats because RINO victories prevent any hope that conservatives can mount a real counteroffensive.
mbecker908 – you spent your whole post refuting one thing I said? Sorry, I forgot to put “a” in front of Ted Kennedy. Of course Kennedy himself was unelectable, but you can be sure that someone equally liberal would have trounced Ford in 1980 if Ford had won in 76.
Lastly, you’re wasting your breath preaching to me how bad Carter’s administration was. Of course it was awful, I lived through it too. But I still maintain that it took the truly awful years under Carter to shift the entire political spectrum from the flower child 70′s to the conservative 80′s. Reagan changed everything. He changed the very debate itself. This titanic shift would never have happened without Ford’s loss in 76.
Go ahead and vote for your RINOs just to get a pyrrhic victory while you watch both the country and the Republican party slide into socialism. I prefer real victories and am prepared to take risks to achieve real goals. The risk we must take now is to let the RINOs lose and Democrats win so we can retake control of the Republican party and eventually the country as people identify the economic collapse with the Democrat policies.
Alternate histories are fun......
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 7:31AM EST (link)Carter mishandled the Iranian situation. I doubt the Shah would have survived in any case, but Carter’s mishandling of the collapse was epic. The US embassy probably wouldn’t have been targeted if Carter had handled it well. Most of the revolutionary’s anger at the US was due to our overwhelming support for the Shah during the period. With Ford in power, the Islamists would have still taken over the country, but we would have remained more neutral in the internal politics and probably would have more friendly relations with Iran today.
It’s likely that the Soviets would not have invaded Afghanistan at all if the US hadn’t been distracted and shown to be entirely ineffective with the problem in Iran. These 2 events are linked. Ford may not have called the Soviets an evil empire, but it’s likely that they wouldn’t have committed to the conflict with a stronger US president (even Ford). Unfortunately, since the soviets didn’t invade, their military and economy wouldn’t have been weakened to the point of collapse by their involvement in Afghanistan and we might still have a Soviet Union to deal with today.
Of course I can’t prove that Ford would have handled the economy better, but this is an alternate history… Let’s say Ford won and had not appointed Volker. Fed funds rates would never have reached 20% and we never would have had the recession of 1980-1982. He MAY, however, have not spent as much money that we didn’t have and which may have been an alternate way to shrink the money supply to control inflation. If not Reagan probably would have won the nomination in 1980 anyway. Then he’d have given us the Reagan tax cuts that drove the largest economic expansion in history.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
You know, there's a good reason your initials
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, June 7th at 7:24PM EST (link)are T.P.
I can’t wait for your hypothetical response to Brian’s likely correct analysis of a Ford victory. Oh, and another log on the fire, Ford likely would not have pardoned draft resisters and forced the Pentagon to review less than honorable discharges from the Vietnam era. In which case, John Kerry would simply be an old gigolo instead of an old gigolo AND a US Senator.
While I’m at it, if you actually think that T. Kennedy could have won a national election in 1980 you are either too young to have been paying attention or you’re stupid. Those are the only two alternatives. Kennedy’s popularity peaked on the day he announced against Carter – who was a tremendously unpopular Democrat and could have been beaten in the primary by a credible candidate. Kennedy can win in MA. He couldn’t get elected cat catcher in any other jurisdiction in the US. He never could have won a national election, his candidacy would probably have made Walter Mondale’s run look pretty good.
Thanks for acknowledging I'm right
tomphelan Monday, June 8th at 12:07AM EST (link)Q: How do you know you’ve won an argument?
A: When the other side resorts to infantile ad hominem attacks.
Thanks for acknowledging I’m right on this one.
Sorry, we don't allow participants to declare themselves winners by a TKO
civil truth (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 12:36AM EST (link)You’re going to have to get back in the rink and knock him out – since right now the judges have you on their cards as decisively losing on points.
Or concede defeat…
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
I would agree he's only shooting par.
gekster (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 12:54AM EST (link)And one of reasons I think Ford lost in 76 is when he forgot Poland was a Communist state at the time..
He blew it then because everyone thought he was as stupid as Chevy Chase portreyed on SNL.
Kind of like Mrs Palin today.
Carter went smiling like the Chesire Cat and lusted in his heart and got elected.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
Since when is the following an ad hominem attack???
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 8:34AM EST (link)From my comment…
And from Brian’s comment above,
Deal with those issues in something resembling a thoughtful way. And, just for the record I don’t expect a comment from you that deals with any of the issues raised by either Brian or I because you haven’t demonstrated the ability to assemble a rational argument anywhere in this thread. I do hope you try though, I’m sure it will be both fun and funny.
Stop setting up straw men...
tomphelan Tuesday, June 9th at 6:04PM EST (link)Perhaps you missed my earlier post regarding Carter.
“Lastly, you’re wasting your breath preaching to me how bad Carter’s administration was. Of course it was awful, I lived through it too. But I still maintain that it took the truly awful years under Carter to shift the entire political spectrum from the flower child 70’s to the conservative 80’s. Reagan changed everything. He changed the very debate itself. This titanic shift would never have happened without Ford’s loss in 76.”
tomphelan, don't use ad hominem until you understand what the term means.
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 10:07AM EST (link)Link is here: please be checked out on the concept before you post here again.
Hint: there’s a difference between “you’re wrong because you’re stupid” and “if you believe that, you’re ignorant/stupid” – and a difference between that and “I’m going to make fun of you now.”
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
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If you're going to be a pedant, you could at least try being correct.
tomphelan Tuesday, June 9th at 6:14PM EST (link)mbecker908 wrote: “You know, there’s a good reason why your initials are TP”
This is an attack directed at me personally that had nothing to do with the substance of the argument. And far worse, it wasn’t even clever–I always enjoy a clever ad hominem, even directed against me. Perhaps mbecker908 overheard it at a middle school playground and thought it sounded catchy.
Therefore, “infantile ad hominem” is completely correct.
Oh tomphelan...
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 12:36PM EST (link)Are you planning on responding to Brian and me or have you simply crawled back under your rock? Oh, and just so you know we’re paying attention, you not only haven’to “won” an argument, you haven’t even made one.
A little more originality please.
tomphelan Tuesday, June 9th at 6:26PM EST (link)mbecker908, you bore me. You have no sense of humor and your arguments consist of telling me to respond to other posts. Feel free to attack me, but please get a sense of humor and try coming up with an original thought or two. Until then, you’re just not worth the time it takes to respond.
Back to Chris Christie
tomphelan Monday, June 8th at 12:41AM EST (link)This thread got a little off topic. Recall the topic was about voting for Chris Christie. Full disclosure here, I spent MANY hours working for the Lonegan campaign as a volunteer. Lest there be any doubt, I was a foot soldier and never talked to Steve besides a few words at several events so everything I write here is entirely my own opinion. Anyhow, I saw Christie on a number of occasions and he is an arrogant nasty politician of the worst sort. He was disrespectful of the other candidates and at the events I attended he didn’t even take a few seconds to say hi to his own supporters. Christie will say or do anything to get elected including pretending to be a conservative because he thinks being governor is his birthright. Lonegan didn’t have the money nor the will–he preferred to stick to debating policy questions for the most part–to reveal this nasty side of Christie. Corzine will show no such restraint.
The piece below about how Christie’s political goons tried to keep Merkt out of the race is classic and right in character for Christie.
http://www.politickernj.com/matt-friedman/30360/dems-want-feds-probe-threats-against-merkt
I’m sure you’ll be hearing a lot more about this.
For the NJ governor’s race this whole argument is really moot because Christie is going to lose regardless of whether conservatives go out and vote for the RINO as you suggest or vote 3rd party as I recommend.
Thank you for your work on Lonegan's campaign.
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 7:53AM EST (link)But that’s only half the battle. Now you have to start building some coalitions for the next election cycle. Especially if Christie has no chance, you MUST do a 180 and start supporting him. (this is the political necessity that Reagan saw). Your battle is not for the people who whole heartedly support Christie though this will get some help from them too, but for the people who are working for the party.
Look, we need those people to support US when we win. It’s very difficult to argue for their support when we aren’t willing to support them. People will remember how your faction reacts when they start picking candidates at the next primary. Which do you want them to remember:
1. Lonegan’s people aren’t reliable. They won’t help the party win and abandon the party whenever they don’t get their way. F*** em, they won’t help us and we won’t help them.
2. Lonegan’s people are pretty vocal and passionate, but when the chips are down, they’re going to be there to support the party. They won the primary this time and they helped us out when we needed it. We owe them one and have to help them.
You might think this is a little simplistic (and it is) but it’s really the core of the matter. What help do you want from the other side when YOU win?
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
NJ conservatives need to change strategy
tomphelan Monday, June 8th at 8:52AM EST (link)Brian,
We both agree on the goals I’m sure, but I profoundly disagree on the strategy especially in NJ. NJ conservatives have been doing as you suggest in #2 above literally for decades and what has it done for us?
Did the moderate wing get behind Jeff Bell in 78? Did the moderate wing get behind Schundler when he pulled off an upset more recently? The moderate/liberal wing of the Republican party in NJ takes our votes for granted and when we manage to pull off an upset in a primary they sit on their country club hands and let the Dem win.
I say in NJ it’s time to change the game. I think the only way to wrestle control of the NJ Repbulican party from the liberal wing is if the weakness and bankruptcy of their leadership is revealed and will only be accomplished by a loss. If they can’t beat Corzine, who can they beat?
Had Lonegan won the liberal wing would NOT have lined up behind him so why should we line up behind Christie? I don’t know if my strategy will work, NJ might indeed be hopeless. But one thing I do know, continuing the decades long strategy of supporting the moderate is absolutely certain to fail if our goal is getting conservatives in state offices.
Sincerely and with genuine respect,
TP
Christie is OK
tedpomeroy (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 9:07AM EST (link)I was there before Reagan’s inauguration working as an intern on some of the formative policy documents prepared by the NJ faction in the Reagan Treasury Dept under Regan (NJ guy near Morristown.) Noone is more conservative than I am.
Face this! Jeff Bell was an outsider, when he was not going to win he left NJ.
Schundler went on for too long talking about vouchers and the rights of the fetus. Although Schundler was correct on everything it was out of sync with the typical selfish NJ voter.
Christie is Morris County with real world credentials. Not some born lucky elitist from Somerset County like we have been cursed with in the past
Get behind him!
Christie a Whitman?
tomphelan Tuesday, June 9th at 6:35PM EST (link)“Christie is Morris County with real world credentials. Not some born lucky elitist from Somerset County like we have been cursed with in the past.”
I obviously disagree. I think the two are cut from the same cloth, backed by the same people, etc. etc. I believe you can best know a politician’s true beliefs by looking at how he attacks his opponent. By this measure Christie is little different from the Dems.
Nonetheless, we’re not going to settle this argument here. The only way we’ll know is if Christie wins which I think will only happen if things get much worse.
I know liberals aren't reliable, but conservatives are.
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Monday, June 8th at 9:36AM EST (link)Or we should be. As to the moderates you have to hold them to their own party unity pledges. Let them know that you are ALWAYS there for them and that you expect the same from them. If possible, get candidates to sign party unity pledges as soon as they announce for office. Unless you get a nutball like David Duke, you should expect all Republicans to support the candidate that wins the primary.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
My last post
tomphelan Tuesday, June 9th at 6:46PM EST (link)Brian,
We’re going around in circles so I’m going to end with this post. FWIW, I’ve supported moderates in NJ for 25 years and the results have been disastrous. It’s time for a different strategy. Liberal Republicans have broken promises over and over so what’s the point of asking for more promises? Promises from liberal Republicans are about as worthwhile as UN resolutions.
Lastly, “unity pledges” sounds creepy. The only political loyalty I have is to my principals, not to a party. I’d vote Democrat in a second if there were such a thing as a conservative Democrat.
It’s been nice sparring with you and perhaps I’ll see you on another thread, preferably on the same side