No, I don’t mean being pro-choice, I mean surrender:
Rep. Bart Stupak said he expects to resume talks with House leaders this week in a quest for wording that would impose no new limits on abortion rights but also would not allow use of federal money for the procedure.
“I’m more optimistic than I was a week ago,” Stupak said in an interview between meetings with constituents in his northern Michigan district. He was hosting a town hall meeting Monday night at a local high school.
“The president says he doesn’t want to expand or restrict current law (on abortion). Neither do I,” Stupak said. “That’s never been our position. So is there some language that we can agree on that hits both points — we don’t restrict, we don’t expand abortion rights? I think we can get there.”
I have long said that once you reach the United States Senate, there is no such thing as a pro-life Democrat. However, it used to be true, even within this decade, that honest-to-goodness pro-lifers existed among the Democrat caucus in the House. IN fact, I personally felt so strong about preserving their existence that I voted for Marion Berry (D-AR) in 2004, despite his incorrigible record on spending. However, if Stupak isn’t able to hold together enough people to defeat this bill on this issue – not just abortion, but public funding of abortion, then the myth of the pro-life Democrat is officially dead, and the Democratic party will have officially become the first monolithic party on this issue in America.
I suppose it’s possible that Stupak and the rest still believe in their hearts that they are in fact pro-life, and that their pro-life instincts have just been overridden by the much deeper Democrat instinct to surrender. However, in this political environment, with the current resident of the White House calling the shots, being a surrender monkey is going to effectively mean being pro-choice until there’s no one left who remembers the difference.
Steve Maley
KnightsofMalta
Dan Spencer
Moe Lane
Dan McLaughlin
There is nothing new in Stupak's stance here
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, March 8th at 11:52PM EST (link)There is absolutely nothing new in this article. Stupak has consistently been optimistic in reaching an agreement on “language” that prohibits federal funding of abortion. Stupak has consistently said he won’t vote for the Senate bill.
I am not saying he won’t cave, but nothing in the cited article suggests that anything has changed in terms of Stupak’s position, i.e. that he (1) wants to work out a HCR law and (2) that the Senate bill is not acceptable.
Until he actually says something suggesting a side-bill strategy, this is all premature stuff. The guy does choose his words quite carefully if you focus on his exact words instead of the reporters/commentators talking about what it all means.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
I disagree.
aruges Tuesday, March 9th at 2:07AM EST (link)Last week he was saying that nothing had changed that make him support the larger bill. Now he says he’s confident they can come up with “language” that will satisfy him.
He’s gonna vote “yes”.
Again.
Remember, he was always in favor of socializing medicine in this country. He’s found his fig leaf to hide his shame.
Stupak has always said that he thought reaching mutually agreeable language was possible
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 8:50AM EST (link)and the article referred to doesn’t say that Stupak will vote for the Senate bill.
The reason why so many conservatives keep jumping up and down every time that Stupak does/says anything is because you refuse to see things from his point of view
The following have been consistent throughout this process:
(1) Never said he could or would vote for the Senate bill
(2) Always said that he couldn’t vote for a bill that subsidizes abortion
(3) Wants HCR–he wants his issues to be addressed so that he can vote in favor
(4) Always willing to engage in discussion to reach mutually agreeable abortion language
These 4 things have been true throughout this process.
When it comes to the Senate bill, he wants to start from scratch and has recently said that this process should not be “rushed”
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Stupak, The GOP, and Pro-Life Groups - The President’s Useful Idiots?
GJ Merits (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 11:03AM EST (link)I am not hopeful. We have been here before folks.
http://www.redstate.com/gman2008/2010/03/09/stupak-the-gop-and-pro-life-groups-the-presidents-useful-idiots/
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison
If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.
To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.
Call
GJ Merits (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 11:03AM EST (link)Call pro-life groups, your Representative and Senator now. Tell them to resist strengthening ObamaCare and facilitating its passage. Let them know you are aware that if ObamaCare passes it is only a matter of time before federally funded abortion is a reality and that you will hold them personally responsible.
Stupak’s contact info:
2268 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225 4735
(202) 225 4744 – Fax
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison
If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.
To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.
The logic is flawed, you should "game theory" it
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 11:28AM EST (link)The Stupak amendment so gummed up the works that both the House and the Senate were a lot slower than they otherwise would be. Moreover, the abortion funding issue is probably “the” big monkeywrench now.
Let us first assume that Stupak will cave when it comes down to Abortion funding vs. HCR:
If the Republicans vote against the Stupak amendment, we have HCR WITH federal funding of abortion–worse than mere HCR because Stupak is someone who caves when forced to either kill HCR or fund abortions. Thus, the original house bill would have passed without the Stupak language, and there would be even less incentive for Landrieu and Nelson to raise any kind of stink.
Let us now assume that Stupak will not cave when it comes down to abortion funding:
If that’s the case, we don’t have a problem because Stupak will vote down the Senate bill.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
This is how Pelosi passed it the first time
GJ Merits (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 12:32PM EST (link)Republican’s, with pro-life backers, vote for the Stupak language. Stupak gets on board. Pelosi identifies which Blue Dogs she can allow to vote no (free pass) so they can have political coverage. The rest are identified by her as yes votes. When she holds the vote, she knows ahead of time it will be a few votes in favor of passing. No surprises for her, although many of us thought it was a nail biter. No need to game this one – it already happened once.
A number of conservative groups – after the above occurred – realized Pelosi’s political calculus and new Reid would borrow from her playbook. Letters were sent that told Senators how key votes would be scored. Anything that improved ObamaCare’s chances in the Senate would be scored a vote for ObamaCare. Therefore, GOP Senators were told to vote present for items such as a public option (or even for for it). When the final cloture vote came the bill would not have passed (there probably would not have been a vote).
This is a game of chess and often what you want to happen or think will happen or would be a bad thing to do is quite the opposite. This is how the game is played. Working with the SSI and the now defunct Tea Party Support, along with a Senate insider, the strategy to score key votes in the way described came into being.
If Stupak language is passed, we lose Stupak. If we can afford to lose Stupak, then it’s of no difference. If we can’t afford to lose him and his mini-caucus then we had better be prepared to vote strategically. The GOP is not very good at this sort of thing and it is why it is imperative we buck them up.
Even more important is letting the pro-life groups know we are quite aware they understand that government controlled healthcare will lead one day to federally funded abortion. Expediency will not be tolerated and we expect them to take a hard stance and do the right thing. They must be forward looking and know that a vote for Stupak like language aids the passage of the bill which ensures federal funding for abortion at some point in the future. They know this because they have been told this for months. There is not excuse for any action at this time that will pressure members to vote in such a way as to push ObamaCare over the finish line so they can temporarily please their donors now only to play the faux shock game when liberals get their way in the future and legislate in the federal funding of abortions.
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison
If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.
To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.
One thing I learned
GJ Merits (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 12:46PM EST (link)During the entire process above is that pressure is wasted unless it is leveraged pressure with utilitarian value. Just holding up signs shouting “You better not vote for this or else” is really rather useless. Identify those who can hurt you and do so in a way they believe it is possible to get away with – identify the fig leafs – and then remove the fig leafs. Once you have those, find out which special interest groups can lean on them and figure out how to mitigate that pressure. One way is to expose the interest group as someone who is not acting like an ally from a “big picture” point of view, and then let them know you are going to out them. Pressure them by aiming for the pocket book. That relieves the pressure on your legislators who have been informed by organizations how key votes will be scored.
It really is a simple game, but it takes a great deal of effort to actually get things done. However, this game is played behind the scenes by think tanks and conservative advocacy groups (and liberal ones too) all of the time. It’s behind the scenes stuff that we rarely see. However, if we become knowledgeable in how to play the game, our ability to shape events increases.
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison
If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.
To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.
They made Massa an example
Raven (Diary) Monday, March 8th at 11:52PM EST (link)Now they have a bunch of the “No”s running scared that they’ll not just lose their jobs Before Nov, but be “outed” as “gay” too.
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
Massa's an idiot fool and not a victim.
joayn (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 2:13AM EST (link)All that “they’re coming after me” hooey. He actually HELPS Pelosi/Rahm/Obama by quitting and depriving us his no vote. The guy’s a total tool and deserves everything he gets.
America is an idea; a noble idea that essentially boils down to the shocking belief that the masses are in fact not asses. John Nolte
sorry, isn't that redundant...
nivlem (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 2:19AM EST (link)afterall, he is a Democrat.
Private lives...
larryp Tuesday, March 9th at 6:59AM EST (link)I thought that affairs or gay or ho;s wre all part of private lives acc to the democrats. Besides everyone lies about sex anyway, they say….
NEVER trust a Democrat
DerKrieger (Diary) Monday, March 8th at 11:53PM EST (link)“I voted for Marion Berry (D-AR)” – you shoulda knowed better
Move up here to NWA – we never elect Democrats up here. I hope our Congressman (Boozman) kicks the crap out of Lincoln in Nov.
“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison
Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690
Business as usual at the Waterloo Men's Club..
speciallist (Diary) Monday, March 8th at 11:54PM EST (link)I'm getting this feeling of deja vu....
bk (Diary) Monday, March 8th at 11:55PM EST (link)We’ve been discussing this the past 2-3 hours.
LOL my thoughts exactly
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, March 8th at 11:59PM EST (link)If it weren’t for the fact that I am in the process of backing up 3 PCs, I would have stopped posting comments hours ago
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
It is not an abortion issue....
nivlem (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 2:12AM EST (link)I understand that the us Pro-life advocates hold strong to this point, however,
in doing so, we miss the main point.
This whole bill is a freedom issue. The abortion portion is an appendage to the main issue. We have allowed them to frame this bill’s rise and fall on
a pro-life issue.
We also have allowed them to demonize the insurance industry. Certainly they have made mistakes, but let us compare them to the mistakes of the government.
As a result, we have let the true concern of the bill slip through our fingers and now have to “piecemeal” each issue as it comes up. It places us in a defensive position. Maybe that is where they want to be…I would have done it differently.
We are allowing them to paint an unreal picture of our present health situation. Everyone knows improvements need to be made, but we need to
paint a picture of reality, not of fear of the present situation.
Sorry
nivlem (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 2:13AM EST (link)should read “that us” not the “that the us”
Kinda makes you wonder if there aren't skeletons in Stupak's closet ala Massa. nt
TNJim (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 2:41AM EST (link)He can hope all he wants
Mayhem (Diary) Tuesday, March 9th at 5:48AM EST (link)But I still see no viable way of him getting this done. Reid and Pelosi will have to pass a separate bill before the healthcare bill vote, and there is good reason to believe such a bill would lock up in the Senate. The only way this issue goes away is if he well and truly caves. If he values the healthcare issue more than the abortion issue, he’s gonna have to vote yes on the Senate bill, despite all his comments heretofore.
James Madison, Jim DeMint, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan… You get the picture.