Dems didn’t lose because of Truthers, we aren’t going to lose because of Birthers.

I know that is a minor point in your post, but the subtitle is a bit overboard.

6 of those with a GOP Congress, conservative people got used to having some say in government. Now, they have no say, and are reacting badly. They want things to be back to the way they were and, as the OP points out, that is not going to happen through anything but the ballot box. These nuclear tactics are simply pipe dreams.

At a minimum, fringe movements like the Birthers take time and energy and attention away from the good stuff that the GOP is doing and trying to do.

I mean, we can use all the votes we can get. And I can’t help but worry that there may be some number of “moderates” out there who are scared by Obamacare and maybe feeling some regrets about their 2008 vote and maybe willing to listen to us again . . . and then they see this Youtube and think “the GOP is still too out there for me. Obama and the Dems are the safer choice.” That’s a potential vote lost for 2010.

Good post, Leon.

t’s NOT about WHERE Obama was born… the fact is that Obama’s father was a Kenyan, a foreign British Colonial, in 1961. This means that Obama was a DUAL CITIZEN. There is no way that “natural born citizen” can be construed to mean dual. The whole purpose of singling out the requirements for President to include the language, natural born citizen, as opposed to citizen (every other electable position) is because the President MUST not have allegiance to any other country than the USA.

THIS is why Obama is ineligible to be President of the United States. It has nothing to do with his birthplace… We are not “birthers”… it is not theory and no conspiracy. The Constitution is being smashed to smithereens and we simply want to have a legitimate President and, therefore, legitimate government…

Please… please… please stand up for the Constitution.

Justawhoaman

I agree with everything in your diary, Leon. This is not worth pursuing legally. Do I think it has been proven conclusively that Obama is indeed a natural-born citizen, no. But for the reasons you stated, this issue as an issue is closed.

However, ignoring this issue and dismissing the ‘trufers’ as lunatics or, worse, Pauliacs, is NOT a successful strategy. In my everyday conversations and my attendance at GOP events, I have observed that this is not just a ‘kook’ phenomenon like the 9-11 trufers. Right or wrong, there are a HUGE number of folks, most of them ordinary citizens & party regulars and many of them elderly, who are convinced that Obama is a usurper. Is there some element of this that is racial? Probably. But the vast majority are just suspicious based on the Obama campaign’s reaction to the lawsuits.

At some point, the leadership of the GOP (Steele,etc.) need to step forward (like, actually LEAD) and basically say what you say in your diary. This is a losing issue for us, but it is much like a festering wound. We need to aggressively clean out the existing infection so the wound can heal. Ignoring it will lead to gangrene, or worse.

If it is such a non-issue then why not just produce the damn thing?

I say keep bringing it up because it adds to the perception that Obama is a pretender and helps keep his agenda bottled up.

If my son wants to play little league he has to produce a birth certificate. If I can’t or won’t he is not allowed to play. It’s pretty simple.

This may not be a sophisticated policy debate but there are millions of Americans who understand this kind of thing.

If we trivialize the citizenship requirement in the constitution, don’t we trivialize the entire document?

If they happen to be right and there is a smoking gun, maybe the courts will do nothing as will the Congress, but I assure you the American people will feel hoodwinked over their vote in 2008 and will take it out on Democrats in 2010 and 2012.

But our candidates cannot allow their campaigns to be infiltrated by these groups. Weak management of the campaign can only lead to disaster.

Perhaps these are merely people who want to see the Constitution enforced. Am I to infer from this article that (just like the liberals) we can pick and choose which parts of the Constitution we agree with based on our current desires? In my 62 years (actually it did not take me that long), I have learned that when someone goes to the trouble and expense to hide something to the extent that BHO has (college transcripts, birth certificates), there is always a reason. P.S., contrary to your article, we do not know what the result would be if he were discovered to be a non-citizen…this has never happened before. Perhaps the fallout from such a Constitutional crisis would help to wake up this country. What I do know is that all the people in Congress took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Let’s see them do it for a change. They had no problem investigating McCain’s eligibility. There are certainly many issues out there that need to be defeated/resolved. This is one of them. Perhaps it just makes some people feel smarter and more sophisticated to put down the many people who want to see this resolved.

Stipulating that Zero was foreign born, you wouldn’t think that would be worth fighting over? Really?

I can understand people on our side who don’t want to have the discussion because they think it’s a trap — once enough people are in, he will show a ligitimate birth certificate from Hawaii, and our folks will be embarrassed. But I cannot understand someone who will stipulate a sitting POTUS is a foreign agent, and then actually say, in front of God and everybody, “What on earth do [people the author stipulates for the sake of argument are right] think will be done about it?”

The military refusing his thus by-definition-unlawful orders is the obvious place it starts. That part is a no-brainer.

We must know. Personally, I’d give him the benefit of the doubt, but when they recinded that guy’s orders rather than fight about it with actual discovery on the line, …no. I don’t buy it anymore. Nobody who had the proof in hand would ever do that. You just can’t run a military having a get-out-of-war card like that out there. And yet, he did just that rather than show his da** birth certificate.

No. I don’t buy it. Let’s see the paper. You can call whatever names you like, but I say that someone who calls names rather than present case-closed proof he supposedly has, doesn’t.

I do not believe the conspiracy…however I did notice during the election that state-after-state-after-state basically said ‘its not my job’ to check a presidential candidates credentials..and everyone at the federal levels said ‘the states hold the elections’.

So basically, you can be from mexico, russia, or mars and still run for president in the us and not a single person will ever ask you for proof of citizenship or any other documentation to backup the requirements as outlined in the Constitution.

The states need to get some balls and demand the same documentation from federal office candidates on their ballots as the do for the dog catchers.

THAT IS A HUGE ISSUE, with our election system if you ask me.

You are exactly right about what is and is not going to happen if the ‘birther’ movement succeeds Joe Biden would be (already is?) the President. However, I think you overlook a few things that I will illustrate.

1. If 0 actually wasn’t born in the US (as alleged) AND if a sufficient number of States pass a law (which some are doing as we speak) requiring a candidate for President to surrender a copy of his original birth certificate before his name can appear on the ballot, then 0 won’t be on the ballot in enough states in 2012 to win, and therefore probably won’t even run for President again. In fact, even if only one large state passes such a law, rather than reveal his birth certificate, he won’t run. That will likely mean that Hillary will be the Dem’s likely candidate in 2012, now she is someone the GOP can defeat.

2. Biden would be a better President than 0, no question about it. He has experience in both domestic and foreign affairs, and is conservative or moderate on a couple of issues and most importantly, he is not a communist. So that’s a plus for him already (as you can see, 0 has forced me tp drop my standards drastically) Now, of course a conservative Republican would be ideal, but in a choice between the evils, of an empty suit acting as a front man for the Red Army Faction and a doofus liberal, I’d rather have the doofus liberal.

3. If the ‘birthers’ were successful in documenting that 0 was not born in the US, AND the GOP took control of the House in 2010, the House could hold hearings on the subject and the ensuing media circus/ liberal outrage/ conservative counter outrage, would likely force the man to resign as President because he would be hounded to death, one, because he lied to get the job; two, because he covered it up after he was in office; and three, because its a juicy scandal that would sell papers.

4. Regarding the Castle incident; As they say in Hollywood, ‘Any publicity, even bad publicity, is good publicity.

Well…what do I mean that it’s a real and non-issue at the same time? Simple. To me, it’s a real issue, considering the Constitution is the source of legitimacy, and since it is also a legal document, wouldn’t it be prudent of us to make sure all qualifications of a presidential candidate are legal and eligible to run for president? If it’s not so, then we should call him on that one. Though in Obama’s case, it looked like nobody cared where he was born. All of that shows us how little knowledge most Americans have of their supposedly “sacred” Constitution. So, it’s a real issue and a grave concern for our country’s future.

At the same time, it’s a non-issue, because as you have pointed out, it’s too late to do anything. Moreover, considering the fact that both chambers of Congress are Democratic majorities, it’s not like they will do anything to impeach and remove a Democratic President. We are much better off fighting Obama’s agenda, and make sure he’s a one-time wonder president…just like Carter.

I have to confess to you, Leon, that Obama refusing to produce the actual birth certificate and other original documents (like college transcripts) does raise some questions about his background. However, neither of us, nor anybody else, can do anything about it. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but that is between Obama and God. Only God knows what is real or not, we’re only human beings, and limited in knowledge and power. Therefore, I would rather spend my energy on fighting on other issues that we know to be true and in every way more important than where Obama was born.

That is all I will say on this subject. May God be with you in your fight to slow down Obama’s liberal agenda. We need every good man and woman to fight the good fight.

Besides, the DNC made this document public months ago. Did you all miss it?
.

In that Town Meeting at all. He got booed when he claimed that he had read Cap & Tax before he voted for it. No one in the room believed him. He claimed he would never vote for a health care bill without reading it. No one in the room believed it. He claimed that CO2 was a threat to the planet. Very few in the room believed that. He was rightly booed when he stated that he knew Obama was a US citizen, without offering any proof.

If the MSM focuses on the “birther” clip without showing his other stupidities, that’s not going to bring opprobrium on the GOP base, only on the MSM and Castle.

Since.. we don’t care about that silly Constitution and all..

This is what makes us different than the Democrats.

These folks… this woman… gets up in a meeting and says what she says… and you guys want to muzzle her.

Whoopie goes on The View yesterday and says that the moon landing was a hoax. Nothing is said about her being bat shit crazy, derailing health care and throwing her out of the Democratic Party.

Let it go.

Let every GOP leader issue their own ‘and the people spoke’ statement, let the birthers do what they do and let Obama stay up late worrying about it… whatever ‘it’ is.

As the wise once said:

‘Bye boys! Have fun storming the castle!’
Thank they’ll make it?
It would take a miracle!’

I’m off to have a MLT

Don’t you think that if there was anything true to this Birther nonsense that Hillary Clinton would have brought it up during the primary? Does anyone doubt that? Furthermore, if you want to argue that “no, she wouldn’t cause they were in the same party,” (although I doubt that would have stopped her presidential ambitions) do you honestly think that John McCain’s campaign would have said nothing about it? If there was any scintilla of proof that Obama wasn’t born in this country John McCain’s campaign and Republican operatives would have been on that like white on rice.

This “Birther” conspiracy is really sad and pathetic. Whats even sadder is that actual, “legitimate” newsmen like Lou Dobbs are giving credence to this garbage. The man was born in Hawaii on Agust 4, 1961. He has posted his birth certificate online and many fact check organizations have looked at the issue, and every single time found that the birth certificate is legitimate. I think there is a lot of racial undertones to this whole thing and it makes the GOP base look like loonies when crap like what happened at Mike Castle’s town hall meeting gets plastered all over the internet and the media.

To those who believe this crap: GET A GRIP ON REALITY!

I agree with Leon that the Birther issue is a dumb one. It’s not something we want to encourage.

In fact, I don’t even think they’re worth reprimanding. Most of the Birthers I’ve met are not going to stop just because you tell them to grow up. Criticizing them is a waste of our time and energy. Let’s quit worrying about Birthers/Truthers/LaRouchers/freakazoids and just promote our own ideas.

After all, a knock is a plug…

Never have. It’s pretty certain that Barry was born in Hawaii. But even if he wasn’t, as long as his mother had not renounced her American citizenship prior to the birth, Barry was BORN A CITIZEN, which by my reading of the constitution means that he can run for president. Am I missing something here? The constitution says nothing about where someone needs to be born in order to run for the top elective office, as long as they were a citizen when they came into the world. I am in the military and my youngest daughter was born while I was stationed in Italy. She was BORN an American citizen so don’t tell me that she can’t run for president some day.

It took me a grand total of like 15 seconds to locate a link to Obama’s actual birth certificate. Case closed.

Besides, if Obama isn’t President, do we REALLY want Biden in the role? Are you KIDDING me? I’d take Obama over that moron any day. Biden is the best life insurance policy a president could ever have. Every time Biden opens his mouth, a nutjob scratches Obama off his list.

(And America is too important to advocate the assassination of any public official, just in case anyone construes otherwise of my humorous comment above. I wish Obama a long and happy life, with the same outcome, but less busy than Jimmy Carter’s)

We could have a terrorist organization operating in this Country and they could put up a candidate that was actually born in afghanistan, but “they say” he was born here, no one checks and we elect him.

Then said President plots to destroy our great Country from within, would that be ok “because he was elected by the people”. Why do we have these rules if no one is going to bother following them.

Let’s run Charles Manson next time, I’m sure there’s a rule against murderers holding public office, oops, sorry strike that.

Oh, TankerTodd the 15 seconds you took to find a birth certificate on factcheck.org was proven 10 months ago as being fake, there was even a story about it, and also for your information since you bothered to take those 15 seconds to research it, Factcheck.org is funded by the Annenberg Challenge whom Bill Ayers and Barack Obama worked for, so any information coming from them would, in any normal human’s eyes would be suspect.

I would take “Don’t Mess With Joe” Biden over Obama if Obama is not a legal U.S. citizen. Biden may be dumb, we’ve had dumb Presidents before, Lord knows, but I’d rather have dumb than an evil one that is purposely trying to destroy this Country.

If the constitution means what it says, not just sort of suggests, but actually means something, then of course the “birthers” are right to be concerned. You can’t be just a little bit pregnant, and you can’t just be a little bit of a natural born citizen. Part of the reason we have so many of the problems we face today is nobody stood up in the past and forced liberals to show what justification the constitution made for most of the programs they want to inflict on the American people. Should this be a primary concern for the GOP? Nope, but I can’t see how you can denigrate the “birthers” as being like the 9-11 conspiracy nuts. The truthers had absolutely no evidence, the birthers have the evidence of all the money Barry has been spending to fight all the court cases aimed at getting his birth certificate released.

BTW, WHAT movement is being lost thanks to “these people”? If you think that showing what liars the democruds are at every turn is not helpful, you are naive. And to what singular “movement” do you refer???

I will only agree that screaming out in a public forum may not be the best way to represent your interest in constitutionality [rolling my eyes to the sky and taking a deep breath] but showing this Obama guy to be a fraud can only help make more people mad enough to call their congressmen and threaten the democruds to think about NOT passing Crap and Tax and ObamaCare. After all, didn’t Mike Castle support these bills???

That is why I am involved in the movement to show that Obama is not a natural born citizen. It should bother EVERYONE that he has so completely scrubbed all of his records from public view… and I do mean ALL.

Meanwhile, I AM calling my Congressmen to vote NO on all these socialist measures. I don’t mention the birth certificate NOR the NBC issue… that is not being voted on yet!

Justa

For all the people out there who still think the birth certificate is an issue, let’s ignore the facts for a moment (since you all seem to be so willing to do so :-/ Is the issue of the birth certificate the best weapon we have to go after Obama? He wasted almost $800 billion dollars on a “stimulus” bill that’s done nothing to revive the economy, he’s poured billions more down the GM and Chrysler memory holes as a sop to his union buddies, he’s currently pushing legislation that will nationalize 1/7 of the US economy and put government in control of our health care and he’s waiting to sign a cap-and-tax bill that will cost the American people trillions of dollars based off the scientifically flimsy idea that human carbon dioxide emissions are warming the planet. He’s doing all that and the best we can come up with is a crackpot unsupported notion he might not have been born in Honolulu? I’d like to think we’re better than that. I’d prefer to beat the left in the arena of ideas. Lord knows they’re making it easy for us.

is not losing. We can’t just pick what parts to uphold. The Founders were crystal clear about being a ‘Natural-born citizen’. They had a reason for doing this. Maybe Obama is a citizen and maybe he isn’t. This could be settled quickly and easily. WHY DOESN’T HE JUST RELEASE THE DOCUMENT IN QUESTION AND BE DONE WITH IT? WHY FIGHT SO HARD TO KEEP IT HIDDEN?
The danger is if we ignore this part of the Constitution, what part is ignored next? Will it be the 1st amendment? 2nd? 22nd ( presidential term limits)? How about the 24th (poll tax)? Can’t you see an ‘emergency’ where they declare a need for more money that results in a fee to vote based on your income, ethnicity, or even party affiliation? Don’t laugh. As we have seen, anything is possible with this administration.
THINK ABOUT IT.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist. Just putting a thought out there for you to think about.

My quick two cents. I respect the truth and those that seek. Is it a winning or even important political issue, no.

And I think there are two issues. 1) The Constitution; and 2) Obama as a ‘Manchurian’ Muslim.

The former is legit. The latter is stupid. That’s what really makes birthers look silly. Plus it de-legitimizes Obama’s real subversive nature, as a neo-Marxist. You can’t be a Muslim and a liberal or a Marxists. That just makes Right Wingers look zany, when they throw every negative label under the sun on him.

He’s a product of Harvard and Hyde Park, not Kenya or Jakarta. He’s not a disciple of Mohammad. He is a disciple of Bill Ayers. And that’s bad enough.

this subject seems to have out distanced most other more “serious” topics.

As such, I just want to note that the dumbest, most slobbery, tinfoil hat wearing “birther’s” vote counts exactly the same as yours.

This is a political reality.

But this article and a great number of the comments strike we as going after the “birthers” like LGF goes after “creationists.”

I don’t “belong” to either group but I find such “attacks” offensive.

I have a lot of other thoughts and things I might like to say but since I may be overreacting, I won’t.

People referred to as “Birthers” suspect that BHO may not be legally a natural-born citizen, as required of the POTUS by the Constitution.

People who think “Birthers” are stupid, think that we should focus on republican wins, rather than issues that make us sound like we’re nutjobs when the media interview us on TV.

I’m sorry, I’ll take constitutionality over popularity any day.

Oh, darn, proving he’s not a natural born citizen won’t get him removed from office, you say? Well, heck, no point in getting all up-in-arms about strictly sticking to our Constitution, then. Lets focus our efforts on winning, because that’s more important!

Republicans are losers because 1) they care more about being popular and not “sounding crazy” in the media, mostly because they don’t know how to get directly to the people, 2) because they aren’t willing to play hardball with the opposition, and let SWSNBN get run over by a steamroller without saying boo to a goose, and 3) because they only want to “win” so they can implement their policies, not because they actually have principles, like a steadfast adherence to the US Constitution.

Neither one has a birth certificate.

I tell that joke for a reason, and having said that, here is what I believe the difference is between “birthers” and “truthers”.

1) The above joke is kinda funny, and it sticks.
2) The truther’s claims were implausible on their face, and made them look like unpatriotic idiots. The birther’s claims have really not been disproven, and stick due to the simple unwillingness of Obama to produce what normal people consider a birth certificate. Sort of a “hell, if I can do it, why can’t he?” And getting back to the joke, I am here to tell you it works at the water cooler,and if it works at the water cooler, it’s not good for the subject of the joke.
3) The reason he doesn’t produce what would be deemed satisfactory is probably the same embarrassing type of reason Kerry didn’t produce his Yale records (worse grades than W), which only adds fuel to the fire.

In conclusion, as GC has said the mother’s nationality is the controlling factor *legally*, and that issue is settled. Obama won the election, period, and nothing can or should be done about it other than working our butts off for 2010.

But this is not a legal issue, so I must disagree with Leon. The issue is easily understood by the huddled masses and just lends credence (believe it or not) to the perception that Obama is some hologram that came from nowhere and is a product of the press and a great marketing campaign. I don’t see where that is harmful to us in the long run provided we….

….distance ourselves from the birthers (like Castle did), concentrate on the big things, but benefit from whatever damage they inflict. Americans really love a good conspiracy theory, and from the very heated reactions to the Castle thing on left wing TV tonight, this is a bit of a thorn for Obama.

Hey – I thought of another one. You know why Obama doesn’t want to enroll in government run health-care? He’s not a citizen.

Gotta go. There’s a joooo looking in my window.

There seems to have been a lot of energy spent here arguing over the adverse impact birthers may be having on the chances of a Republican winning Joe Biden’s seat. That’s all well and good, but based on Leon Wolf’s own observations about Mike Castle in the original post, I’m having a hard time understanding how he can win that seat anyway – birthers or no birthers.

He’s a RINO. How the GOP sees the benefit in running a RINO (even in Delaware) is beyond me. That fact alone could seriously cripple his candidacy because the base will not unite behind him.

Seems to me the birthers could do little more to hurt Mike Castle’s candidacy than he’s already done to himself with his own record.