Fiscal conservatism should have won


but neither party was offering it.

Trot on over to the Club for Growth website. They have a very interesting election poll conducted on Sunday before the vote. It is commissioned by CfG so take the results with that grain of salt. Even so, the numbers are eye-popping. In my own opinion, it can be summed up as the following: the majority of voters favor fiscally conservative policies but they believe that the Republican party has strayed far from this foundation.

Political panic from the financial meltdown also played a big role. (This is my opinion, not from the poll.) Panic, by definition, is an irrational response to fear. The poll shows that the irrational response was to vote against their beliefs. They voted for the one who confidently offered easy solutions and against the guy who wasn’t confident.

Unfortunately, McCain is not a fundamental fiscal conservative. He said a lot of the right words and advocated some good policies, but it was based on gut feelings instead of a solid intellectual foundation. He didn’t understand enough to properly counter Obama’s pitch and the market meltdown. He could not close the sale.

Hat tip: Instapundit


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As a follow up to that excellent poll

izoneguy (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 9:34PM EST (link)

Citizens Against Govt Waste

If Washington, D.C. were to export a commodity, it would be rhetoric. Politicians especially love to talk about fiscal responsibility. On March 13, 2008 the Senate had an opportunity to test that rhetoric when Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) offered an amendment to impose a one-year moratorium on earmarks. Pork beat talk as the measure failed by a vote of 29-71

A few porkers:

Republicans are as guilty as the Dems when it comes to pork:

$7,556,660 for grape and wine research. Wine is a popular beverage. In fact, in 2006, per capita U.S. wine consumption was 2.39 gallons while the U.S. exported 404.5 million liters of wine. Total wine sales in 2006 were $27.8 billion. There is no pressing need for taxpayers to pay for this research.

$4,840,875 for wood utilization research in 10 states requested by nine representatives and 16 senators. Among the research areas is “refinement of processing technology for laminated veneer lumber for furniture, flooring, and other specialty industries.” As if no one has ever done that before. This research has cost taxpayers $90.8 million since 1985.

$1,648,850 for the Shedd Aquarium by Senate appropriator Richard Durbin (D-Ill), Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), House appropriator Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) and Rep. Danny Davis (D-Ill.). The aquarium’s website says the facility was a “gift to the people of Chicago from John Graves Shedd, president and chairman of the board of Marshall Fields & Company.” This aquarium receives 2 million visitors per year and has 36 corporate benefactors. At the end of 2004 (the last year for which information is available), the aquarium had a fund balance of approximately $200 million. Those are some liquid assets.

$705,000 by House appropriator and CAGW 2007 Porker of the Year recipient John Murtha (D-Pa.) for Concurrent Technologies Corporation Corrections Learning Environment. According to a January 14, 2008 article in The New York Times, “In 1991, Mr. Murtha used a $5 million earmark to create the National Defense Center for Environmental Excellence in Johnstown to develop anti-pollution technology for the military. Since then, it has garnered more than $670 million in contracts and earmarks. Meanwhile it is managed by another contractor Mr. Murtha helped create, Concurrent Technologies, a research operation that somehow was allowed to be set up as a tax-exempt charity, according to The Washington Post. Thanks to Mr. Murtha, Concurrent has boomed; the annual salary for its top three executives averages $462,000.”

$121,400,000 for 44 projects by House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee Chairman John Murtha (D-Pa.), including $23,000,000 for the National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC). Rep. Murtha became infuriated by Rep. Mike Rogers’ (R-Mich.) motion to remove the NDIC earmark. According to Rogers, Rep. Murtha warned, “I hope you don’t have any earmarks in the defense appropriations bills because they are gone and you will not get any earmarks now and forever. … That’s the way I do it.” Since 1992, more than $509 million has been used to fund NDIC, which is administered by the Department of Justice (DOJ.). But DOJ has asked Congress to shut the NDIC down because its operations are duplicative. This project helped Rep. Murtha win CAGW’s 2007 Porker of the Year award.

$246,100 by Sens. Joe Biden (D-Del.) and Thomas Carper (D-Del.) for the Grand Opera House in Wilmington. On June 25, 2007, the Opera House announced its 2007-2008 season, featuring performances from artists such as comedian Lewis Black and rock and roll legends David Crosby and Graham Nash. Ticket prices, not tax dollars, should be raised to pay for additional work on the facility.

$1,950,000 by Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) for a library and archives at the Charles B. Rangel Center for Public Service at The City College of New York. This “Monument to Me” has caused some problems for the 19-term representative. The project was challenged on the House floor on July 19, 2007 by second-term Rep. John Campbell (R-Calif.), who said, “You don’t agree with me or see any problem with us, as members, sending taxpayer funds in the creation of things named after ourselves while we’re still here?” Rep. Rangel responded, “I would have a problem if you did it, because I don’t think that you’ve been around long enough that having your name on something to inspire a building like this in a school.” Ego and taxpayer dollars clearly do not mix.

$49,000 by Rep. Howard “Buck” McKeon (R-Calif.) for construction of a National Mule and Packers Museum in Bishop. Defending his earmark, Rep. McKeon stated, “One thing we forget is the people in Bishop pay taxes…they have gotten very little back from the federal government.” There are 3,575 people in Bishop. If they each pay just $13.71 to a local museum fund, all of the other Americans who pay taxes would not be forced to support a museum few are likely to visit.

The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.

Too true

Kyle-MI (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 9:42PM EST (link)

The 2006 election should have been a wake-up call for fiscal responsibility, but the Republican leadership only blamed it on the war. To his credit, Bush made the right move on the war with the surge, but the Republican leadership never got it on fiscal responsibility. I hope they get it now, but I am worried that they will try to scapegoat Palin and social conservatism.

 
 

That was always the problem with Mack

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 9:45PM EST (link)

Mack was not strong on the economy, just as he said, and just as he proved when he suspended his campaign to pass the Paulson-Goldman-Sachs bailout. The failure of the bill to pass without pork for the Dems added insult to injury. Mack never recovered from that.

What are the fiscally conservative issues that would sell? Fair Tax is one of my favorites, but I am not sure how easy it is to explain. I had to read a book about it. Repeal of Sarbanes Oxley would be a good one. Repeal of McCain-Feingold would be a good one since it’s dead anyway, and good symbolically too. Drill, Baby, Drill is a powerful economic issue. So is Coal, Baby, Coal and Nuclear, Baby, Nuclear. Making the Bush tax cuts permanent is a good one. Punishing Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac is a good one.

That was easier than I thought.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

Check the poll at CfG

Kyle-MI (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 10:02PM EST (link)

They don’t have anything about the fair tax, but you can see just about any fiscally conservative policy is supported by a majority, sometimes a plurality but it still beats the liberal policy.

FairTax is a loser.

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 10:21PM EST (link)

For a variety of reasons, all relatively unrelated to the actual program.

  1. It is complicated as hell. There is no simple way to either explain it or enact it.
  2. It would require, at a minimum, a repeal of the 16th Amendment. That won’t happen.
  3. In it’s “pure” form it does away with payroll taxes (FICA), which would forever enshrine social security as a government mandate and handout. Some of us fools want to see SS privatized and the only hope we’ve got for that is to have the cost in front of folks in the hope that one day they’ll get pissed off about their cash going down the drain.
  4. Prebates. Yeech. Talk about a way for Congress to pass out cash.
  5. The law of unintended consequences. I fear everything this complicated. Stuff happens and really complicated solutions make it realistically impossible to act or to react.
  6. There’s no way the IRS goes away, no matter what anybody says.
  7. Consumption taxes would appear – to me at least – to be really easy to “tinker with” by Congress.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Too complicated. And it would never survive the “legislating”.

Personally, I like the Flat Tax better. Kill off exemptions, do away with corporate taxes, file on a post card. Keep the new regulations to one page, 12 point type, one inch margins.

Good points, but...

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 10:33PM EST (link)

When you tax something you discourage it. So when you tax earnings you discourage earnings. When you tax capital gains you discourage investment. When you tax consumption you discourage consumption and necessarily encourage investment. There is no faster way to make the economy grow than to encourage investment.

That’s why I like consumption taxes like the Fair Tax. I agree with your points, and want to find a way past them.

I hope this helps you understand where I’m coming from.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

You caught me out

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 10:35PM EST (link)

I didn’t read the poll until after you replied. It reminds me of Gingrich’s Real Change site with all the popular conservative plans.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

So, with a consumption tax you will discourage

mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 11:12PM EST (link)

consumption? Encourage savings? Encourage investment?

Don’t think so. Even the authors of FairTax go to great lengths to point out that all they are doing is changing the method of collection and that FT will be not just revenue neutral, but revenue neutral across tax brackets. That’s the whole point of the “prebate”.

Heck, if all you want to do is encourage investment you only have to make a couple of relatively small (not easy and not inconsequential, just relatively small) changes to the current tax code. First, eliminate corporate income tax. Second, eliminate or dramatically reduce (like to 10% or less) capital gains.

 
 
 
 
 
 

Yeah, and everyone hates congress

I was previously Tlaloc, and I was banned last year. (Diary) Thursday, November 6th at 11:17PM EST (link)

but they like their own congresscritters. You gotta realize when most people talk about fiscal conservativism they don’t mean anything remotely philosophical or ideological. They mean cut money going to the other guy but don’t you dare touch their earmarks.

I really don't believe that

Kyle-MI (Diary) Friday, November 7th at 12:00AM EST (link)

In their hearts, most people know that it is fundamentally wrong to rob Peter to pay Paul. This definitely holds for conservatives and is weaker but still strong for swing voters. At the very least, the poll shows that people’s instincts lean toward fiscal conservatism (and it is not just on earmarks). This should mean that fiscal liberals have to work hard to sell their policies. The most damning answer in the poll is one where the majority of voters say that the Republican party is no longer fiscally responsible. Even I as a strong supporter have to agree with that assessment. It is not that they think Democrats are better. At best they think there is not enough difference between the parties to bother voting.

I know. There's more.

Beaglescout (Diary) Friday, November 7th at 12:25AM EST (link)

The Fair Tax guys do say that it will encourage investment because it taxes consumption. But there’s more. It also encourages investment because it increases take-home incomes. It’s revenue neutral to the government, but it is not payment neutral to taxpayers.

Anyway, I’ll stop preaching the Fair Tax for now.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

I'm not necessarily opposed to FairTax.

mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, November 7th at 12:25PM EST (link)

I am, however, opposed to anything that will take an inordinately long time to implement and be complex in the calculation of revenue streams. That is my inherent problem with FT.

For starters, without a repeal of the 16th Amendment FT is is a non-starter. Don’t repeal the 16th, and do it in a way that forever precludes an income tax, and we will certainly have both a consumption tax AND an income tax.

I am very concerned about the calculations and how revenue is projected. The Congress is famous for using static models that are not just wrong (every time), but fabulously wrong.

And then there’s the “prebate”. In the universe of things I just simply hate, it’s in the top five. That whole concept is a license for Congress to create a new welfare program.

I have a bunch of other concerns about FT, but those are really the knockouts.

You should write a diary about FT, and focus on how it gets implemented.

It's the despair

Beaglescout (Diary) Friday, November 7th at 5:07PM EST (link)

And the prisoner’s dilemma. Fred is well aware that Barney is leaching from the public treasury. Despairing that Barney may never stop, Fred takes to leaching from the public treasury himself in retaliation, and in anticipatory retaliation. Barney takes his own vengeance. There are no emotions leading to more human evil than vengeance and despair.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton