USPS Style Health Care


Americans are expressing serious reservations about the direction of health care reform. The President did little to assuage those fears when he compared the controversial ‘public option’ to the Post Office. Concerns about the administration’s handling of economic matters continues to grow, and citing the USPS as model government program when it is facing serious financial trouble fuels concerns that the administration’s math is not adding up.

Obama Goes Postal, Lands in Dead-Letter Office by Caroline Baum of Bloomberg.

Aug. 18 (Bloomberg) — “UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.” — Barack Obama, Aug. 11, 2009

No institution has been the butt of more government- inefficiency jokes than the U.S. Postal Service. Maybe the Department of Motor Vehicles.

The only way the post office can stay in business is its government subsidy. The USPS lost $2.4 billion in the quarter ended in June and projects a net loss of $7 billion in fiscal 2009, outstanding debt of more than $10 billion and a cash shortfall of $1 billion. It was moved to intensive care — the Government Accountability Office’s list of “high risk” cases – - last month and told to shape up. (It must be the only entity that hasn’t cashed in on TARP!)

That didn’t stop President Barack Obama from holding up the post office as an example at a town hall meeting in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, last week.

When Obama compared the post office to UPS and FedEx, he was clearly hoping to assuage voter concerns about a public health-care option undercutting and eliminating private insurance.

What he did instead was conjure up visions of long lines and interminable waits. Why do we need or want a health-care system that works like the post office?

What’s more, if the USPS is struggling to compete with private companies, as Obama implied, why introduce a government health-care option that would operate at the same disadvantage?


Obama’s Health Care/Post Office Comparison


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Obama made a gaff in his analogy

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 5:03PM EST (link)

but the comparison offered in the quote you posted is not telling the complete story.

Lets cut the Post Office some slack here. Fedex doesn’t offer a service to send a letter across the country for 44 cents and it most likely never will. And to be fair the US Postal Service was subsidized because private companies would not be offering affordable mail delivery to rural areas of the country. The US Postal Service also is responsible for carrying mail to US service men and women around the globe. The construction of Post roads was initially an investment by Government for the delivery of mail and they are still in use today.

Obama’s analogy is simple private and public can coexist. If I can afford it and its important I might go with Fedex, if I can’t afford it then I’ll take the USPS over nothing at all.

cclive...if USPS disappeared tomorrow...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:10PM EST (link)

by Friday there would be dozens of private sector companies ready to step in.

The reason UPS and FedEx don’t offer a service to send a letter across the country for 44 cents is because they are not allowed to, by law.

You and Obama are correct though…public and private can coexist as long as citizens don’t mind picking up the tab. I am sick of picking up the tab though. Especially when I still have to pay for a fricken PO box because the Post Office direclty below my apartment doesn’t do home mail delivery…at all.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Not too sure about that

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 5:18PM EST (link)

“The reason UPS and FedEx don’t offer a service to send a letter across the country for 44 cents is because they are not allowed to, by law.”

So if I walk into a Fedex office with a letter and tell them I want to send it across country, they’ll refuse to? Or are you saying there is a law that forces Fedex to charge me more than 44 cents?

It is unlawful to compete against the post office

Leopard1996 (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:25PM EST (link)

Which is what Aaron is trying to get through to you. Fedex, and UPS have to charge more, than the post office and they could not just mail a letter like you can stick it in a mailbox, and it will get there when it gets there. They have to charge more than the post office, and make sure they are differentiated in any way from any service that the post office offers and charge more for it, example Overnight delivery, 2nd day delivery, etc.

“The accumluated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, “Save Us!”….and I’ll look down and whisper, “No”…The Watchmen

 

Can UPS or FedEx deliver to you mailbox...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:34PM EST (link)

No they can’t.

There is a “mailbox restriction” law on the books from back in 1934…it was brought to the SCOTUS and affirmed as constitutional in 1981.

Google mailbox restriction, there will be plenty for you to read.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


I think the current law requires that home delivery competitors with the USPS charge at least double

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:42PM EST (link)

the current rate for a stamp equivalent. The fact is that no private company could deliver the equivalent universal service absent the subsidy by taxpayers, but

The bottom line for me is that I am in favor of this constitututionally mandated service for several reasons. It is a unifying institutution for all Americans wherever they choose to live within the US and it fosters self reliance and commerce for buyers and sellers no matter their residence. It furthers the pursuit of happiness in a way that I deem quite cost effective.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

but let me be clear that I am in no way endorsing the false analogy

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:44PM EST (link)

implied by the obamadems. A public option in health care is a whole nother ball game, worse even than the GSE’s in housing mortgages

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

I actually agree with you GC...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:50PM EST (link)

I am not getting on the “Close the Post Office” bandwagon….I just don’t want people walking around acting like it is a successful govt program and further proof of how great a public option would be in health care.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


555 - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 6:03PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 

USPS postage paid

RoguePolitics (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 6:37PM EST (link)

That is the requirement for private delivery according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Express_Statutes.
Any private person can start their own postal service but they have to pay USPS the proper postage for every piece they carry even though it never touches the USPS system.

They used to say the same “unifying things” about big three network TV.
So glad those days are gone.

Lysander Spooner did compete with the post office and forced them to drop postage from $.12 to $.05 before they forced him out of business with laws and courts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company

The constitution doesn’t mandate a monopoly. It just says they will build post offices and post roads. A responsibility somehow got turned into an exclusive right.

We don’t really know how cost effective private postage could be. We should try it and see.

“So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don’t even know that fire is hot.” George Orwell

“Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate, now what’s going to happen to us with both a House and a Senate?” Will Rogers

When the American spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different: Liberty, sir, was the primary object. Patrick Henry

http://theprecinctproject.wordpress.com
Because the Republican Party is NOT going to fix the Republican Party.

http://americanamendment.com/
Because Washington is NOT going to fix Washington.

5 Rogue...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 6:40PM EST (link)

especially the last 2 sentences.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

Thats really interesting thanks for the post

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 9:23PM EST (link)

and linked information.

You are welcome

RoguePolitics (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 10:37PM EST (link)

“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.” Milton Friedman

“So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don’t even know that fire is hot.” George Orwell

“Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate, now what’s going to happen to us with both a House and a Senate?” Will Rogers

When the American spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different: Liberty, sir, was the primary object. Patrick Henry

http://theprecinctproject.wordpress.com
Because the Republican Party is NOT going to fix the Republican Party.

http://americanamendment.com/
Because Washington is NOT going to fix Washington.

 
 
 
 
 
 

I loved Johnny Carson, but I have to say that I cringed a bit

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:46PM EST (link)

at his post office jokes, although the ones about the long lines were true. After the military, the USPS is my favorite govt entity!

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 

better analogy for Zero for Private vs Public...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 10:50PM EST (link)

is PBS versus Fox, ABC, NBC etc. I think you would agree the product produced by the commerical enterprises is far superior. Plus PBS depends on donations from private persons and production donations, BBC?

As was said below, FEDEX and UPS do not really compete against the USPS for mail service. Plus FEDEX delivers your letters to your door while the USPS can use group boxes to unload all of your mail at one spot here in PWC VA. Not much of a fair comparison in keeping costs equal for delivering letters.

 
 

Its only unlawful to compete with their specific services

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 5:42PM EST (link)

which is first class mail which has a specific weight and form (letters) I don’t believe Fedex and UPS are forced to charge more though.

Funny thing about those services cclive...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:45PM EST (link)

While not allowing UPS or FedEx to compete in those services on the one hand, they are subcontracting those same services on the back end to UPS and FedEx…seems silly to keep USPS in that line of service if they ar e subcontracting it out to private corps.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


ok, I have my reasons for retaining the Constitutionally mandated USPS, but now

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:49PM EST (link)

I will have to do the research to see if the reasons for its establishment in the first place are consistent with my own.

To me, the USPS seems a huge bargain, akin to to interstate highways and other public works.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

It is only a bargain because you aren't seeing the hidden cost...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 5:56PM EST (link)

and it has no competitors.

Let me relate a story to you…I literally live above the post office in Quechee [kwe-chee] Vermont. 20 feet separate me from my mail. ~5 people work in that office, they close down for 2 hours during lunch. They don’t do home delivery at all. I have to pay for a P.O. Box just to collect my mail. Does that sound anywhere close to efficient or a bargain?

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


I guess I look at the total cost of the program as so puny compared to the

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 6:08PM EST (link)

awesome service of being able to send a letter anywhere in the country for such a low cost and the benefit to commerce as being such an incalculable maybe “hidden” benefit, that I don’t think its a close call.

It does sound like you have a localized complaint that seems to contradict an aspect of universal delivery, but still think that the cost of a POB doesn’t change the overall equation, but I must admit that if I were in your shoes I would lobby for a change.

I am against going to a 5 day delivery week. That would hurt the e conomy.

I would say this, and I know this is not an adequate remedy for the POB charge, but one can get mail via “general delivery”…

I know, I am dodging the thrown plates at my head…

smile

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 

They are only subcontracting air transport

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 8:31PM EST (link)

from airport to airport to Fedex. Fedex is not doing the door to door delivery at least that is my understanding of the deal.

But I still don’t think there is a law or any regulation that requires Fedex to charge a particular amount of money. You may not be able to send “first class letters” but you can send documents via Fedex, you can send a single piece of paper as long as you use their packaging. Its semantics really. So why don’t they offer a 44 cent service to anywhere in the US?

I just don’t think you’d get a private company to offer that type of service for that price particularly to very rural areas.

cclive...I never said they were doing door to door delivery...pay attention please...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 8:39PM EST (link)

In fact in the thread above this we already stated that FedEx and UPS are not legally allowed to do so, which you conveniently ignored.

What I said is that the back end was being sub-contracted the backend being the airfreight stuff that you just talked about.

Please don’t be disingenuous with me…I really despise that.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Back end is fairly general term

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 9:03PM EST (link)

it could imply sorting or perhaps transport from airports to local post offices before door to door but it doesn’t, it just refers to air transport in this case. Just trying to clarify.

If it is illegal to compete with the Post Office then either Fedex and UPS are operating illegally or they are not competing with them in any way, which is it?

cclive....

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 9:24PM EST (link)

If it is illegal to compete with the Post Office then either Fedex and UPS are operating illegally or they are not competing with them in any way, which is it?

Is that really the response you want to stick with?

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


I actually think RoguePolitics made it clear

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 9:32PM EST (link)

with his very informative post above but if you want to answer feel free.

cclive...I know he made it clear...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 9:38PM EST (link)

that is part of the reason I was getting frustrated with you…that comment has been up for 3 hours. Can you see how you might have come off as being a bit disingenuous?

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


I wasn't being disingenuous at all

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 9:47PM EST (link)

And I can’t see how you would take my comments as such. But it does seem like we were both wrong.

Uh...no cclive...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 9:52PM EST (link)

Those links he provided didn’t make anything I said wrong. Try again.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Weren't you suggesting it was illegal to compete

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 10:03PM EST (link)

with the US Postal Service?

“In fact in the thread above this we already stated that FedEx and UPS are not legally allowed to do so, which you conveniently ignored.”

Because that seems to contradict RoguePolitics findings that “any private person can start their own postal service but they have to pay USPS the proper postage for every piece they carry even though it never touches the USPS system.”

Context is your friend cclive...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 10:12PM EST (link)

That quote was about mailbox delivery….which is not allowed except for the USPS.

Here is some reading for you

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


And parsing words is yours -nt

cclive Wednesday, August 19th at 10:25PM EST (link)

Sorry cclive...words have meanings...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 9:30AM EST (link)

I won’t allow you to misrepresent mine, thank you very much.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat