Comments on: Dealergate 3: Targeting GOP Districts http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/ Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:51:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: wesmorgan http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5578 wesmorgan Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:09:53 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5578 ...I'll certainly apologize for misquoting you. As you can see, I thought you were referring to the two main questions, not the WV remark. You have my apologies. …I’ll certainly apologize for misquoting you. As you can see, I thought you were referring to the two main questions, not the WV remark.

You have my apologies.

]]> By: Moe Lane http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5305 Moe Lane Fri, 29 May 2009 17:58:09 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5305 You wrote, referring to me. <blockquote>You mentioned that “Little West Virginia is getting hammered.” </blockquote> I did not. Again, if you can't pay attention, don't participate. You wrote, referring to me.

You mentioned that “Little West Virginia is getting hammered.”

I did not.

Again, if you can’t pay attention, don’t participate.

]]> By: wesmorgan1 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5304 wesmorgan1 Fri, 29 May 2009 17:54:52 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5304 "the question is not What is the statistical likelihood that a car dealer contributes to Republicans? It’s Did the White House save Democratic contributors from being closed?" At least, it says "Moe Lane" in the comment...I merely suggest that we should work through the first question before approaching the second. “the question is not What is the statistical likelihood that a car dealer contributes to Republicans? It’s Did the White House save Democratic contributors from being closed?”

At least, it says “Moe Lane” in the comment…I merely suggest that we should work through the first question before approaching the second.

]]> By: Moe Lane http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5298 Moe Lane Fri, 29 May 2009 16:42:55 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5298 ...please don't engage in the discussion. This is something like the I think the third time this week that I've had comments, statements or posts attributed to me that I didn't make or write, and it's starting to get annoying. …please don’t engage in the discussion. This is something like the I think the third time this week that I’ve had comments, statements or posts attributed to me that I didn’t make or write, and it’s starting to get annoying.

]]> By: wesmorgan1 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5297 wesmorgan1 Fri, 29 May 2009 16:35:30 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5297 If, as the raw data from FiveThirtyEight suggests, almost 90% of car dealers are (or lean) Republican, then even a randomly generated list of closings would be slanted toward Republicans, yes? (Given a bag with 90 red balls and 10 blue balls, pick 40 balls - do the math.) Your question of whether government influence was used to "save" Democratic contributors may well be valid. I've seen several reports that indicate that the list of "saved" dealerships is being reviewed by folks in the blogosphere, but I haven't seen any results. The third question--and one that is being largely ignored--is how <i>other business concerns</i> came into the decision-making process. For instance, a dealer who owns multiple dealerships in multiple cities might be a better "save" than would be individual dealers in those same cities. (Economies of scale, right?) We'd also probably want to look at their business results; obviously, sales volume is the most likely tiebreaker, and that would tend to favor larger dealers over the single-location folks. Another factor is the size of the population being served. You mentioned that "Little West Virginia is getting hammered." My count is that 17 WV dealers are closing, while 25 are remaining open. Given that West Virginia's population is only 1.8 million (37th of the 50 states), and that 21% of the population is under 18, that leaves roughly 1.4 million people in the likely "car buying" age group. Does that small population warrant 42 dealerships? Heck, the 25 that remain provide one dealer per 57,000 people...and only 10 WV cities have a population of more than 15,000. I would think it entirely reasonable for a car dealer facing closure to be told the specific reasons for their selection. I don't think it reasonable to assume government interference in that decision without some serious evidence. If, as the raw data from FiveThirtyEight suggests, almost 90% of car dealers are (or lean) Republican, then even a randomly generated list of closings would be slanted toward Republicans, yes? (Given a bag with 90 red balls and 10 blue balls, pick 40 balls – do the math.)

Your question of whether government influence was used to “save” Democratic contributors may well be valid. I’ve seen several reports that indicate that the list of “saved” dealerships is being reviewed by folks in the blogosphere, but I haven’t seen any results.

The third question–and one that is being largely ignored–is how other business concerns came into the decision-making process. For instance, a dealer who owns multiple dealerships in multiple cities might be a better “save” than would be individual dealers in those same cities. (Economies of scale, right?) We’d also probably want to look at their business results; obviously, sales volume is the most likely tiebreaker, and that would tend to favor larger dealers over the single-location folks.

Another factor is the size of the population being served. You mentioned that “Little West Virginia is getting hammered.” My count is that 17 WV dealers are closing, while 25 are remaining open. Given that West Virginia’s population is only 1.8 million (37th of the 50 states), and that 21% of the population is under 18, that leaves roughly 1.4 million people in the likely “car buying” age group. Does that small population warrant 42 dealerships? Heck, the 25 that remain provide one dealer per 57,000 people…and only 10 WV cities have a population of more than 15,000.

I would think it entirely reasonable for a car dealer facing closure to be told the specific reasons for their selection. I don’t think it reasonable to assume government interference in that decision without some serious evidence.

]]> By: Moe Lane http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5291 Moe Lane Thu, 28 May 2009 05:14:29 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5291 ...was merely to get people's attention: I could care less about the sensibilities of a three-year sleeper account holder. For everybody else planning to dive in - and merely repeating the link will earn a ban; I'm already seeing it being used as an apotropaic symbol - please be advised: the question is not <I>What is the statistical likelihood that a car dealer contributes to Republicans?</I> It's <I>Did the White House save Democratic contributors from being closed?</I> Besides, now <a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2009/05/18/daily62.html">it's a matter for the politicians</a>, anyway. …was merely to get people’s attention: I could care less about the sensibilities of a three-year sleeper account holder. For everybody else planning to dive in – and merely repeating the link will earn a ban; I’m already seeing it being used as an apotropaic symbol – please be advised: the question is not What is the statistical likelihood that a car dealer contributes to Republicans? It’s Did the White House save Democratic contributors from being closed?

Besides, now it’s a matter for the politicians, anyway.

]]> By: Moe Lane http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5290 Moe Lane Thu, 28 May 2009 04:54:29 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5290 Sparky, free hint: when you're trying to play 'objective observation,' don't use the guy who writes things like "they have obvious reasons to be pro-business, pro-tax cut, anti-green energy and anti-labor. " Silver has his own agenda, which pretty much involves telling Democrats what they want to hear. And, surprise! - what you want to hear right now is not "the White House may have used campaign contributions to determine who lived, and who died." Hope that was worth burning an account over. Sparky, free hint: when you’re trying to play ‘objective observation,’ don’t use the guy who writes things like “they have obvious reasons to be pro-business, pro-tax cut, anti-green energy and anti-labor. ” Silver has his own agenda, which pretty much involves telling Democrats what they want to hear. And, surprise! – what you want to hear right now is not “the White House may have used campaign contributions to determine who lived, and who died.”

Hope that was worth burning an account over.

]]> By: ddstrain http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5289 ddstrain Thu, 28 May 2009 04:35:27 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5289 By: techsan http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5288 techsan Thu, 28 May 2009 04:27:54 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5288 they <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN">often</a> <a href="http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03272009/profile2.html">do</a>. they often do.

]]> By: sukwoo http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5287 sukwoo Thu, 28 May 2009 03:30:44 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5287 The vast majority of ALL auto dealer political contributions go to Republicans. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html The vast majority of ALL auto dealer political contributions go to Republicans.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html

]]> By: Josh Painter http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5285 Josh Painter Thu, 28 May 2009 02:57:39 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5285 You don't have to show that Dems were rewarded in order to show that Republicans were punished. All you have to show is that Republicans were punished. If, for example, the majority of closing dealers who donated to political campaigns donated to the GOP (which appears to be the case), then all you have to show is that the majority of dealers who will remain open are *NOT* GOP donors. They don't have to be Dem donors. - JP You don’t have to show that Dems were rewarded in order to show that Republicans were punished. All you have to show is that Republicans were punished. If, for example, the majority of closing dealers who donated to political campaigns donated to the GOP (which appears to be the case), then all you have to show is that the majority of dealers who will remain open are *NOT* GOP donors. They don’t have to be Dem donors.

- JP

]]> By: itrytobenice http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5284 itrytobenice Thu, 28 May 2009 02:24:09 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5284 Thanks for your efforts. Thanks for your efforts.

]]> By: Section9 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5283 Section9 Thu, 28 May 2009 01:48:03 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5283 ...for BOTH General Motors and Chrysler dealerships. Remember that, at bottom, the people in the WH are thugs, and they do things the Chicago Way-pay to play. So, if your theory is correct, an overwhelming majority of the dealerships that stay open for both GM and Chrysler will be dealers who donated to the DNC and the Obama Campaign. The evidence has to be overwhelming and convincing to the lay person. The media won't investigate this because of the implications of the data. Some Republican politician, like Palin or Romney, has to be able to hang their hat on this, so you can't be screwin' around here. …for BOTH General Motors and Chrysler dealerships.

Remember that, at bottom, the people in the WH are thugs, and they do things the Chicago Way-pay to play. So, if your theory is correct, an overwhelming majority of the dealerships that stay open for both GM and Chrysler will be dealers who donated to the DNC and the Obama Campaign.

The evidence has to be overwhelming and convincing to the lay person. The media won’t investigate this because of the implications of the data. Some Republican politician, like Palin or Romney, has to be able to hang their hat on this, so you can’t be screwin’ around here.

]]> By: Josh Painter http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5282 Josh Painter Wed, 27 May 2009 23:00:55 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5282 - JP - JP

]]> By: oldgeezerguy http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5281 oldgeezerguy Wed, 27 May 2009 22:42:40 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5281 http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rdU8Q_Kp6MlB1F2ia72RPtQ&single=true&gid=0& http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rdU8Q_Kp6MlB1F2ia72RPtQ&single=true&gid=0&

]]> By: larueladue http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5280 larueladue Wed, 27 May 2009 21:57:45 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5280 If this is true and is absorbed by the people affected, it will be the start of the "Neo-War Between the States." People in these areas will not take this sitting down. And it will be a shooting war.... If this is true and is absorbed by the people affected, it will be the start of the “Neo-War Between the States.” People in these areas will not take this sitting down.

And it will be a shooting war….

]]> By: skorrent1 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5279 skorrent1 Wed, 27 May 2009 21:22:14 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5279 Isn't that the normal function of a "community organizer"? Isn’t that the normal function of a “community organizer”?

]]> By: Josh Painter http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5278 Josh Painter Wed, 27 May 2009 20:13:09 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5278 about one GM dealership in particular. - JP about one GM dealership in particular.

- JP

]]> By: civil_truth http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5277 civil_truth Wed, 27 May 2009 19:58:27 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5277 This goes beyond mere corporatism, where the government becomes a dominant player in so-called private businesses. Or beyond using taxpayer dollars to benefit government favored groups This is economic war against political entities who didn't vote for Obama, destroying their economies in order to give money and resources to states who did vote for Obama. The hope evidently is either to intimidate the remaining businesses to play ball and/or discredit the state Republican adminstration by blaming them for the failing economies in their states and rising unemployment. This goes beyond mere corporatism, where the government becomes a dominant player in so-called private businesses. Or beyond using taxpayer dollars to benefit government favored groups

This is economic war against political entities who didn’t vote for Obama, destroying their economies in order to give money and resources to states who did vote for Obama. The hope evidently is either to intimidate the remaining businesses to play ball and/or discredit the state Republican adminstration by blaming them for the failing economies in their states and rising unemployment.

]]> By: izoneguy http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/2009/05/27/dancing-with-the-dealers-3-targeting-gop-districts/#comment-5276 izoneguy Wed, 27 May 2009 19:09:06 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/josh_painter/?p=1154#comment-5276 And that is how Obama sees business. A tool to use to extend his political reach. This goes beyond even Marxism.... Maybe we should start calling it Obamism. And that is how Obama sees business. A tool to use to extend his political reach. This goes beyond even Marxism….

Maybe we should start calling it Obamism.

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