From the diaries by Erick.
The Russian bear is awake from its hibernation. Russia’s response to the conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia was typically Russian – “disproportionate” – in the words of the Bush administration.
The conflict, killing thousands and dsplacing tens of thousands in just a weekend’s short time, has serious implications for the United States, its newer friends among the former Soviet republics and older friends around the world:
Sure the Georgians got themselves into this conflict by launching a bid to recapture South Ossetia. But it wasn’t unprovoked — the Russians have been building up the government and armed forces of the breakaway province for years, and have been applying every kind of pressure to stop Georgia joining NATO, including aggressive measures like shooting down a Georgian aircraft earlier this year. And the Russians are in no position to criticize Georgia’s efforts to recapture breakaway territory given the tens of thousands the Russians killed to reverse Chechnya’s attempts to break free.
As Russian bombs rain down on key Georgian military bases, Ukraine and the Baltic states know all too well that they are next on the list for Russian invasion — probably with the same pretext of protecting Russian citizens — if the Kremlin gets away with crushing Georgia.
Also watching what happens in the Caucasus with one eye on the U.S. will be allied countries like Taiwan (it knows that U.S. corporations have long been pushing successive U.S. administrations to abandon Taiwanese democracy), Pakistan (it’s been dumped before), India, Turkey, the Gulf states, Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, Japan, Australia, and Colombia… the list goes on.
The Russians are as aware of this as anyone else. Which begs the question:
Will the United States put real pressure on Russia to stop? In a news analysis on Sunday, the New York Times reporter Helene Cooper accurately captured what I gather is the prevailing view in our State Department: “While America considers Georgia its strongest ally in the bloc of former Soviet countries, Washington needs Russia too much on big issues like Iran to risk it all to defend Georgia.”
But Georgia, a nation of about 4.6 million, has had the third-largest military presence — about 2,000 troops — fighting along with U.S. soldiers and marines in Iraq. For this reason alone, we owe Georgia a serious effort to defend its sovereignty. Surely we cannot simply stand by as an autocratic aggressor gobbles up part of — and perhaps destabilizes all of — a friendly democratic nation that we were sponsoring for NATO membership a few months ago.
For that matter, consider the implications of our turning away from Georgia for other aspiring pro-Western governments in the neighborhood, like Ukraine’s. Shouldn’t we therefore now insist that normal relations with Russia are impossible as long as the aggression continues, strongly reiterate our commitment to the territorial integrity of Georgia and Ukraine, and offer emergency military aid to Georgia?
In a throwback to the cold war, the Pravda headline insisted, “War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA”:
Russian officials believe that it was the USA that orchestrated the current conflict. The chairman of the State Duma Committee for Security, Vladimir Vasilyev, believes that the current conflict is South Ossetia is very reminiscent to the wars in Iraq and Kosovo.
“The things that were happening in Kosovo, the things that were happening in Iraq – we are now following the same path. The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. South Ossetian defense officials used to make statements about imminent aggression from Georgia, but the latter denied everything, whereas the US Department of State released no comments on the matter. In essence, they have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals. They are responsible for this. The world community will learn about it,” the official said.
Along with using Pravda to blame the U.S. for the conflict, the Russians are threatening Georgia’s allies among the former Soviet states:
Russia’s ambassador to Latvia Monday warned the Baltic states and Poland that they would pay for their criticism of the Kremlin over the conflict in Georgia, the Baltic news agency BNS reported.
“One must not hurry on such serious issues, as serious mistakes can be made that have to be paid for a long time afterwards,” Alexander Veshnyakov was quoted as saying by BNS.
Contacted by AFP, a spokesman for the Russian embassy in Riga confirmed the ambassador’s comments but declined to elaborate.
Despite the fact that Georgia called for a ceasefire and started pulling its troops out of South Ossetia, Russia continues to take the war deep inside Georgia, even bombing the capitol city of Tbilisi. Is the severity of the Russian response payback for Kosovo?
One of the triggers for the conflict exploding now, however, occurred outside the Caucuses when western countries recognized Kosovo, formerly part of Serbia. This diplomatic manoeuvre upset the Kremlin, which has refused to recognize the new entity. It has also not forgotten that a weak Russia had to watch helplessly in 1999 as an American-led NATO bombed its historical Balkan ally into submission.
Now in retaliation, Russia sees the opportunity to inflict the same fate on America’s Caucasian ally. It reasons that if Serbia is divisible, then so is Georgia. Like the Albanians in Kosovo, the Abkhazians and South Ossetians should have the right to secede if they do not want to remain part of Georgia. And they don’t. As proof, many people in these two rebellious areas, as many as 90 per cent according to one report, have taken Russian citizenship.
Georgia’s desire for NATO membership was also a factor in this weekend’s Russian response. Putin has spoken very strongly against Georgian entry into the western alliance, seeing it as a threatening attempt to encircle Russia as well as an western intrusion into its traditional sphere of influence. This is also how the Kremlin regards the American military bases in Central Asia and NATO’s eastern expansion to its borders.
By attacking Georgia, Russia may have crushed its neighbor’s NATO hopes. The ruthless Russian invasion showed Europe’s more reluctant members they may eventually wind up in a bloody Caucasian war if they accept Georgia into their organization.
In reality, Russia wants the United States out of the Caucuses completely and probably regards its Georgia invasion as the first step toward this goal. America has built a pipeline from oil and gas-rich Kazakhstan through Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey that breaks Russia’s stranglehold on supplying energy to Europe, lessening Europe’s dependence on Moscow. And it plans to build another.
So what is the United States to do? We don’t have the energy security, the miliary assets nor the political will to send troops, armor or airstrikes into the region to come to the aid of the Georgians. So focused have we been on the threat of militiant Islam, we have allowed the once familiar potential threats of Russia and China to fall off of our national radar, something I recall Fred Thompson warning about in his stump speeches while still a candidate for the GOP presidential nominaton.
Thompson, in his speech at the Citadel last November, argued that:
We have major shortcomings in U.S. defense capabilities. To confront these shortcomings, we must address several key priorities:First, we must spend more on defense, and we must do so carefully and wisely. Spending today as a percent of GDP is estimated at 4.1 percent – and that includes funding for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
According to the Office of Management and Budget, defense spending is expected to decline down to 3.1 percent in 2011. I believe we must be prepared to increase defense spending to at least 4.5 percent of GDP, not including what it takes to fund operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. When it comes to matters of budgets with Congress they say all numbers are fungible. But in this area of appropriation, there should be little room for negotiation.
Second, we must admit to ourselves, as Iraq and Afghanistan have demonstrated, that our military is simply too small. Too many commitments today leave our Armed Forces capable of meeting too few contingencies tomorrow. I propose today that we build a “Million-Member” ground force. We should increase Army end strength to 775,000 organized into 64 brigade combat teams and increase active duty Marine Corps forces by 50,000 to 225,000. Half-measures and small increases will no longer do. We need the best all-volunteer force that can meet the security needs of this country, and they must be organized, trained and equipped to deal with tomorrow’s threats as well as today’s.
Third, we must modernize our Armed Forces. The average age of our military aircraft is 24 years; some are over forty years old…twice the age of most of you. The Army’s main battle tank and fighting vehicles were designed in the 1970s and 80s. And the entire fleet of vehicles is not aging gracefully either, with an average age of 13 years, made worse by years of tough use.
We must fully field and fund the next generation of military systems to ensure U.S. forces retain dominance in the full battle space: On the battlefield, in the skies above it, and in the waters surrounding it. The investments we make today provide the means to defend our nation tomorrow. They will make our military personnel more effective and safer. We need sustained technology development, and we need the best and brightest working on our defense programs.
Finally, and most importantly, we must take better care of our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. They are the life-blood of our defense establishment. Whether they are active duty, Guard or Reserve, they are entitled, as well, to expect the best pay and benefits our country can afford, including a modern GI Bill with educational assistance that will help us recruit and keep our nation’s finest in uniform. They also deserve the best healthcare and the best support possible for their families.
And for those who have already served, we need to fix the VA system and implement many of the recommendations of the Dole-Shalala Commission and the Veteran’s Disability Benefits Commission report.
These four pillars of a revitalized national defense are part of a much more detailed plan that must include, among other initiatives, enhancing the capabilities of our Special Operations Forces to hunt down terrorists; rebuilding the Navy to show American resolve, full time, in trouble spots; strengthening our intelligence gathering and analysis; procuring modern long-range cargo aircraft to project power anytime, anywhere; building a robust missile defense system to defend our homeland, our troops and our allies from ballistic missiles; and ensuring the means to protect our space-based assets and cyber systems
Some will say that this plan is “too much,” or “too big.” Others will say that building a large military will encourage our involvement in more conflicts. But these views are out step with reality, out of touch with our nation’s needs, and overlook our nation’s history.
The fact is, we can and must do this. The world, our foes and friends alike, will not allow us to do otherwise. We can either build up and deter war, or we can allow our forces to wither and risk conflict.
Even with the strong military that Thompson advocated, the U.S. would still likely not want to get involved in a ground war right in the Russians’ back yard. But it would give us the bite to back up our diplomatic bark when we speak about the situation. We would at least possess the military assets we need in the event of any hostile action which may be taken against us or our allies. As for political will, that’s another matter:
The Bush administration is said to be obsessed with loyalty. But at the same time, it is habitually disloyal to America’s friends and allies. None of the over 30 countries that have sent troops to take part in the invasion and reconstruction of Iraq have been economically or politically rewarded in any way. Indeed the administration has taken them so much for granted than it hasn’t barely acknowledged their contribution, still less thanked them. This has damaged the administration because it plays into the myth of “unilateralism.” But much worse than that, it has also damaged American interests. Our allies have realized that America is neither grateful nor reliable. If the Poles had got anything for their stalwart support in Iraq — even something as cheap and easy as more visas to the U.S., the Kaczinsky government might not have fallen and the Poles might not be taking their troops out. If Tony Blair could have pointed at a single major defense contract from the United States — say a small aircraft carrier to be built in one of Britain’s desperate shipyards — he could have replied convincingly to charges of being “America’s poodle.”
But Georgia is a bigger test.
We don’t have to go to war for her (fortunately for irresolute Western governments, Georgia’s not in NATO) but we must back her in every other way: diplomatically, economically and with military technology and advice, now and after any ceasefire that is called.
If we don’t, if we let our ally be defeated and humiliated by the Russians, everyone will know that friendship with America carries more risk than rewards. Moreover it will genuinely signal a new age of American isolation. The diminution and weakness described or predicted by so many “declinist” authors will become a reality.
The whole world is watching. Friend and foe alike.
- JP
Moe Lane
Dan McLaughlin
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
It's a tough time
jarrod21 Monday, August 11th at 2:30PM EST (link)I don’t mean to go all Michelle Obama on anybody, but this is the first time in my adult life that I’ve been truely ashamed of my country.
The lack of any sort of substantive response is killing me. I’m not going to pretend that I know what the proper response is, but much like the Supreme Court and pornography, I’ll know it when I see it, and I haven’t seen a thing.
A bit of small assistance..
HerbC (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 2:41PM EST (link)The US is doing -something- by returning the
Georgian troops from Iraq.
Note the AP-penned article.
NATO countries need to wake up
pilgrim (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 2:43PM EST (link)NATO countries need to work together to stop this Russian bear from being the sole supplier of their energy needs. Russia will rob international oil companies like BP and Shell of oil fields and they will try to take ownership of all the pipelines between the Caspian Sea and Europe. They are also making deals with African nations like Libya for them to sell to them instead of on the open market.
NATO countries have not worked hard enough in the area of energy production because they are blocked by environmental groups. This has got to change.
Dept of State = Dept of Treason
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 2:52PM EST (link)No surprise that State would take the wuss way out.
PS — Fred Thompson STILL rocks!
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
well that's *something* I suppose
jarrod21 Monday, August 11th at 3:13PM EST (link)It still stops way short of “Hey Georgia, I know you helped us in Iraq when most of the rest of the world refused so we got your back, good buddy.”
It just feels wrong.
well that's *something* I suppose
jarrod21 Monday, August 11th at 3:15PM EST (link)It still stops way short of “Hey Georgia, I know you helped us in Iraq when most of the rest of the world refused so we got your back, good buddy.”
It just feels wrong.
Dept of Treason?
dt (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:17PM EST (link)In what universe is Condoleezza Rice a traitor? We shouldn’t be throwing these terms around so loosely. It cheapens them; they should be reserved for those that truly deserve them.
well that's *something* I suppose
jarrod21 Monday, August 11th at 3:18PM EST (link)It still stops way short of “Hey Georgia, I know you helped us in Iraq when most of the rest of the world refused so we got your back, good buddy.”
It just feels wrong.
Georgia feels betrayed by the United States
BatMasterson (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:20PM EST (link)http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/11/europe/11scene.php
Georgia feels betrayed by the United States
BatMasterson (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:22PM EST (link)http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/11/europe/11scene.php
Not Rice
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:27PM EST (link)Rather, the entrenched bureaucracy that she was supposed to clean up.
This term is not being thrown around loosely, dt. The State Dept has for the entirety of the Bush Administration worked strenuously to undermine every aspect of Bush’s GWOT, the Iraq liberation and rebuilding, pretty much any Adminsitration policy. They have leaked national secrets to WaPo and the NYT. It is routinely thought by most Republicans in Washington that State is a festering, America-hating crap-hole.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
FDT for SecDef!
Canthros (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:31PM EST (link)This all blew up three-four days ago. I know people have talking about stuff happening ‘all week’, but I don’t think there was [i]anything[/i] being said about it until Friday. Before the Russian ground invasion began, it seems to have been SOP over there.
I sincerely hope that the White House is just weighing its options right now. It’s a touchy and complicated situation.
This too shall pass.
I agree
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:32PM EST (link)People throw terms around too easily, particularly negative ones. We need to be very careful.
Georgia vs. Russia: both allies
Charles Marean (Jr.) (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:33PM EST (link)Right? Russia’s a democracy. Their Communist Party won a few elections, and the British made some James Bond movies against them. The Russians helped us win WWII. People quick for us to join a fight probably don’t have to go themselves.
Chuck
Let them talk to their therapist, then.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:44PM EST (link)When you provoke giants, you get stepped on.
You may say that.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:48PM EST (link)but I hope the Georgians understand the current situation here in America.
Georgians are fighting against Communist Russia. America is fighting against Communist Democrats and unfaithful Americans. Democrats strangely think that those who supported the Bush Administration in Iraq War are enemies. The political atmosphere in America is worse and Pres. Bush has only 5 months in the WH.
Meaning, it’s not really Pres. Bush who is lameduck. It is the divided American people who are inutile at present.
Russia is neither democracy nor friend
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 3:54PM EST (link)The USSR was no more our friend for fighting the Nazis in their self interest as OBL was for fighting the USSR in his self interest.
Could you slop more caricatres/trop/cliches into your comment?
You never lived outside the freedoms of the West, so you have no appreciation for what is is like to lose those freedomes. The people in Georgia know, as to the other Eastern Europe recently emancipated peoples.
Why don’t you move to Russia and speak out there–get yourself thrown in the Gulag.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
BUSH TO SPEAK AT 5:15
Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:10PM EST (link)I think the response has seemed delayed only because everything unfolded so quickly. I do not think rash actions were warranted in the inter-Ossettia conflict. But Putin’s brazeness is beyond the pale. Georgia has repeatedly offered to sign a ceasefire, while Russia plays dumb and pretends they never got it. Then Russia basically invades the whole country including the remote port cities that have nothing to do with South Ossetia. On top of it all, Putin justifies his actions by claiming the Gerogian president is akin to Hussein – a weak attempt to turn American “aggression” against us. Russia is being petty, vindictive, heinous and dangerous. Also note the verbal slap towards Poland the Baltics. To state that those countries were going to pay for criticizing Russia just shows how arrogant they’ve become. Is there any question regarding who poisoned the Pro-Western Ukraine Preisdent now
We haven't rewarded Georgia??
Darin_H (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:16PM EST (link)The Bush administration is said to be obsessed with loyalty. But at the same time, it is habitually disloyal to America’s friends and allies. None of the over 30 countries that have sent troops to take part in the invasion and reconstruction of Iraq have been economically or politically rewarded in any way.
That’s just not true:
A visionary coward says that anger can be power, as long as there’s a victim on TV – Flat Top, Goo Goo Dolls
Russian Democracy a Farce
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 4:23PM EST (link)Refresh my memory but didn’t the Russians cut a deal called the Iron Pact with Adolf Hitler whereby Nazi Germany was given Poland in exchange for the Baltic States and then come crying to the West after Hitler reneged on the deal and invaded Russia???
Anyway, Russian Democracy is a farce. The elections are rigged and there is no real free media and politicians who dare to speak out against their government are arrested or worse. Let’s not forget that Putin had a critic murdered via poison in London a year ago. If anyone wants to support Russia, be my guest, but please don’t insult our intelligence and try to persuade anyone that Russia is a democracy.
Amusingly, Chuck, people who don't understand the concept of civilian government...
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:28PM EST (link)…don’t get to stick around on this blog. Ta, chickenhawker.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
to bad you are wrong....
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:29PM EST (link)OK I had written this very long response and then accidentally lost it because I navigated away from this page…lesson learned…compose in notepad
Careful??? Are you serious?
I believe we have not been forceful enough in denouncing the political correctness and the inherent confusion it brings with it. I say it is high time that we call good good and evil evil. I believe it is time to bring back McCarthy – minus the alcohol which was used to discredit a man who in essence had it right.
Now is the time for bold colors and stark contrast. We have allowed the communists and socialists to gain safe passage into the inner realms of our government, which is the bureaucracy, all under the guise of political correctness.
From the environmental agencies active subversion in not allowing OUR nation to explore it’s OWN resources, to the State Dept., which as noted by EPU has been duplicitous to its duties by leaking classified information to the press, we have seen the effect of the communist and socialist sympathizers within our midst.
All this “we need to be careful” talk only feeds these evil men who have come to control our government and take it away from the people. You have ceded the premise and in that secured your defeat.
I will not be silenced into an autumn slumber all for the sake of comity™, bipartisanship™ or political correctness.
NO, I SHALL CALL A SPADE A SPADE!!!!!!
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
"Rewarding" Georgia Not the Point
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 4:35PM EST (link)Whether the US and NATO should confront Russia militarily over Georgia because Georgia is owed something is not really the point. NATO has a direct interest in seeing a free and democratic Georgia because the ONLY alternate pipeline from the Caspian Sea to Europe runs through Georgia. Russia knows this and has been looking for an excuse to control ALL pipelines to Europe.
Russia’s ultimate goal is to control Europe’s energy supply. It should be recalled that Russia has recently claimed all the oil and gas reserves in the Arctic. If Russia controls Europe’s energy supply, then Russia can blackmail Europe into supporting Russian policies. Essentially, Russia will make Europe dependent and a satellite of Russia by economic blackmail.
This is why confronting Russia militarily in Georgia is not just an option but the only appropriate response. Russia only understands and respects military might and does not take diplomacy seriously unless the veiled threat of military action lies behind such diplomacy. Maintaining a free and independent Georgia through which Europe’s energy supplies flow will ensure Europe’s independence from Russian blackmail.
NATO ships were at GEORGIAN COAST PORT CITY just 2 weeks ago
BatMasterson (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:36PM EST (link)link
Friends don't drag friends into unnecessary wars.
nod90 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:37PM EST (link)I don’t know what the Georgians thought they were doing when they blew away those Russian peacekeepers but I think the Russian response is rather predictable. Having 2000 troops in Iraq comes nowhere near making up for the trouble that they have gotten us into. War between major powers, armed with nuclear weapons, is a very serious business. It’s something we work hard to avoid.
The Georgian operation was reckless, poorly planned, and may well have involved killing civilians in order to force Ossetian submission.
Now, if the Russians try to take over the whole of Georgia it will put America in a very awkward position. There will have to be some kind of response. Hopefully the Russian are smarter than that and realize that Georgia will be even worse than Chechnya if they try to occupy it.
Gee, that's not oversimplified at all
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:43PM EST (link)–nt
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Right on!
Alberta (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:44PM EST (link)fight the good fight
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right.
Abraham Lincoln
Russia Purports Provocation
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 4:45PM EST (link)President Mikhail Saakashvili could have recited Psalm 23 in the town square of the capital city of South Ossetia and Russia still would have used the foregoing as an excuse to invade Georgia anyway.
Stay Away
John_Louisiana Monday, August 11th at 4:46PM EST (link)We should stay clear of this conflict. Our interests are at stake here.
The pipeline is owned by 3 US companies that represent a total of 13% of a pipeline that produces 1% of Europe’s oil.
Of course Georgia would help us fight in Iraq, they’d know soon enough that they’d need our help when Russia woke up.
The US should stay clear of this one.
Georgia was part of a UN peace keeping force. They lost 3 people as a UN peace keeping force. Get real. They weren’t in the fight like the Brits.
If anyone on this board this we should help Georgia in any other way than provide intelligence then ask your congresssman to put a “war vote” before congress. Let the people decide.
John
Republican – Louisiana
“Liberalism is the transformation of mankind into cattle.” – Friedrich Nietzsche
Stay Away
John_Louisiana Monday, August 11th at 4:47PM EST (link)We should stay clear of this conflict. Our interests are at stake here.
The pipeline is owned by 3 US companies that represent a total of 13% of a pipeline that produces 1% of Europe’s oil. So, US interests are 13% of 1% of a pipleline that feeds oil to Europe.
Again…the US should stay clear of this one.
Georgia was part of a UN peace keeping force. They lost 3 people as a UN peace keeping force. Get real. They weren’t in the fight like the Brits.
If anyone on this board this we should help Georgia in any other way than provide intelligence then ask your congresssman to put a “war vote” before congress. Let the people decide.
John
Republican – Louisiana
“Liberalism is the transformation of mankind into cattle.” – Friedrich Nietzsche
Video of Georgian President he says Russia wants to ethnically cleanse some areas
BatMasterson (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:51PM EST (link)LINK TO VIDEO
Russia has gone way too far
Nice, wrong, armchair analysis
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:55PM EST (link)So Georgia brought the invasion on itself? Russia had no hand in funding and instigating all the unrest and outright rebellion going on in South Ossetia?
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Video of Georgian President he says Russia wants to ethnically cleanse some areas
BatMasterson (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 4:57PM EST (link)LINK TO VIDEO
Russia has gone way too far
Well played, Satan!
crankycon Monday, August 11th at 5:02PM EST (link)Putin had one card, oil, and has played it brilliantly. He has rendered NATO an empty uniform, neutralized and neutered the EU. He will recover the lost territories of the USSR. He will form an Axis of Oil with a Greater Iran, and then pay us back for wrecking his precious Soviet Union. Well played, Esteemed Mr Putin!
And us? Let me count the times we stiffed the countries that made the mistake of believing in our bs. Hungary 56, Taiwan. The last chopper out of Saigon. The time we told the Iraqis to overthrow Saddam. And now Georgia.
There are many valid reasons why we can’t help Georgia. All the same tonight I feel like puking from shame.
No one is going to risk nuclear war over 70,000 people in South Ossetia
BatMasterson (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:02PM EST (link)with that said Russia has gone way too far but in the end we must have at least a cordial relationship with Russia if we ever want to win the war on terror and stop IRAN from from going nuclear.
Well played, Satan!
crankycon Monday, August 11th at 5:02PM EST (link)Putin had one card, oil, and has played it brilliantly. He has rendered NATO an empty uniform, neutralized and neutered the EU. He will recover the lost territories of the USSR. He will form an Axis of Oil with a Greater Iran, and then pay us back for wrecking his precious Soviet Union. Well played, Esteemed Mr Putin!
And us? Let me count the times we stiffed the countries that made the mistake of believing in our bs. Hungary 56, Taiwan. The last chopper out of Saigon. The time we told the Iraqis to overthrow Saddam. And now Georgia.
There are many valid reasons why we can’t help Georgia. All the same tonight I feel like puking from shame.
Georgia Not to Blame
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 5:03PM EST (link)Russian “peacekeepers” were placed in harm’s way by…Russia. South Ossetia is to Georgia like Palestine is to Israel so if Russia wants to insert its troops in the crossfire then it really shouldn’t be surprised if some troops happen to get killed. Russia should know better given its experience in Chechnya…or I daresay its genocide in Chechnya.
That said, Russia is beyond expelling Georgia from South Ossetia. It is using this whole episode as an excuse to crush a democratically elected government that, heaven forbid, decides it prefers to be friends with the West instead of Russia.
Unfortunately, Putin only respect military force. Accordingly, US and NATO must respond with military force. At the very least, the Mediterranean Sixth Fleet should be steaming toward the Black Sea to provide air cover along with sorties from Turkey for Georgian ground troops. A conventional confrontation between the US and Russia will not escalate to a nuclear confrontation so long as the US does not fly into Russian airspace or hit targets within Russian territory. However, Russian targets in Georgia and South Ossetia are fair game.
Well played, Satan!
crankycon Monday, August 11th at 5:04PM EST (link)Putin had one card, oil, and has played it brilliantly. He has rendered NATO an empty uniform, neutralized and neutered the EU. He will recover the lost territories of the USSR. He will form an Axis of Oil with a Greater Iran, and then pay us back for wrecking his precious Soviet Union. Well played, Esteemed Mr Putin!
And us? Let me count the times we stiffed the countries that made the mistake of believing in our bs. Hungary 56, Taiwan. The last chopper out of Saigon. The time we told the Iraqis to overthrow Saddam. And now Georgia.
There are many valid reasons why we can’t help Georgia. All the same tonight I feel like puking from shame.
Well played, Comrade!
crankycon Monday, August 11th at 5:09PM EST (link)Putin had one card, oil, and has played it brilliantly. He has rendered NATO an empty uniform, neutralized and neutered the EU. He will recover the lost territories of the USSR. He will form an Axis of Oil with a Greater Iran, and then pay us back for wrecking his precious Soviet Union. Well played, Esteemed Mr Putin!
And us? Let me count the times we stiffed the countries that made the mistake of believing in our bs. Hungary 56, Taiwan. The last chopper out of Saigon. The time we told the Iraqis to overthrow Saddam. And now Georgia.
There are many valid reasons why we can’t help Georgia. All the same tonight I feel like puking from shame.
Russia is entitled to its own security
pennington Monday, August 11th at 5:09PM EST (link)We fight for oil, the Russians fight for oil. Really it’s all legitimate because oil is the lifeblood of industrialized nations. This is Georgia’s fault, and ours. Moving Nato east disturbs the Russians. They’re a bit paranoid, it’s true. But history has made them that way. What I don’t get is all this nonsense about “disproportunate response” and condemnation of military strikes outside of South Ossetia. It’s the Georgians who are fond of bombing South Ossetia, not the Russians. The Russians are just making sure that the Georgians can’t or won’t attack South Ossetia again. They have stated that they won’t cease hostilities until the Georgians give a security guarantee that they will leave South Ossetia alone.
Bottom line is, no one can or will stop them.
Except that the Russkies are doing *just that*
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:17PM EST (link)Risking nuclear war to conquer that territory, that is.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Ivan
avnmedic Monday, August 11th at 5:19PM EST (link)If you think that the Russian are going to stop at the border of the “contested area”, then you just don’t know Ivan.
And if you think that once the Russians have taken Georgia, it will be the end of their “assistance to help local seperatists”, then you need to take a good look at their history.
The Risk/Benefit outcome for this is on Putin’s side. Unless we (and the rest of the world) change that balance. But something measurable has to be done…….and soon. Now.
The KGB does not like to lose, especially in public.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
festering America-hating crap-hole != treason
dt (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:21PM EST (link)Even if you’re right that “[i]t is routinely thought by most Republicans in Washington that State is a festering, America-hating crap-hole[]” (and I note the absence of a link in support of your sweeping statement), such a statement is a far cry from accusing the State Department of treason. And as much as I may disagree with such a sentiment, one can hate America and still not be guilty of treason. I won’t belabor this point any further. Back to your regularly scheduled program, and apologies for the threadjack . . . .
you are so wrong comrade pennington
pilgrim (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:34PM EST (link)Russia could not care less about South Ossetia. They have already rolled their tanks way past that region to wipe out cities in Georgia like Gori and Poti and on to Tbilisi. The Russians want their empire back. If no one can stop them in Georgia then what about the Baltics, the Czech Republic, Poland? Russia puts ‘this is for America and NATO’ on the bombs they drop in Georgia.
bottom line is, Russia can be stopped.
good points
streiff (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:36PM EST (link)except there is no polity as “South Ossetia.” It is part of Georgia.
Russia may be entitled to its own security, but so too are its neighbors. Were Russia’s actions against Georgia, again you might arguably have a point. But Russia has been cultivating Russophile minorities is the Baltic States, Ukraine, and other former parts of the USSR. As they showed in Georgia, they are perfectly willing make ciitzens anyone who wants to be one in order to establish a “factual” basis for intervention.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
Traitor is carefully defined.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:42PM EST (link)When you simply sling words around, they lose their meaning. It’s one thing to call them wrongheaded, which they are, it’s another thing entirely to accuse them of crimes that have careful definitions.
You’re not calling a spade a spade. You’re calling everything a spade, even a tricycle. When you do that, “Traitor” means nothing. It’s just something to call someone.
Everyone says the other guy...
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:46PM EST (link)Wants to Ethnically Cleanse places. It’s how you get attention. Why should I believe the President of Georgia over the Russia Foreign Minsiter, who says Georgia tried to massacre Osettians? Quite frankly, I don’t believe either, and neither should you.
If Georgia surrenders South Ossetia to Russia...
CSUFBomb (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:47PM EST (link)…it will open the door for Russian aggression at any time.
South Ossetia is critical to Georgia’s security – that’s the only reason why it’s so valuable to Putin. His claim that Russia is acting to protect poor, displaced Russians is a handy bone to distract gullible Euro leftists from his true intent.
–
“We want great men who, when fortune frowns, will not be discouraged.” – Colonel Henry Knox
Prove It.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:49PM EST (link)THe only people who say that Georgian cities are under attack are the Georgian government. Reuters sent a reporter and saw nothing but Georgian soldiers.
Though, I suppose you’ll just tell me Reuters in the bag for Moscow.
Roki Tunnel.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 5:51PM EST (link)Close it down, and it doesn’t matter if Russia controls South Otessia or not. And, really, Georgia’s security has been compromised since 1992. They haven’t had S Otessia in 16 years- now, I’m supposed to believe they own it?
IHT reporter Andrew Kramer in Gori, Georgia
pilgrim (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:00PM EST (link)LINK
which is why I mentioned those troublesome *other* things
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:04PM EST (link)Because this :
certainly IS treason.
Don’t stop now, dt. Keep trying.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Nothing matters . . .
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:07PM EST (link)until it does.
The mountains of Czechoslavakia didn’t matter . . . until they did.
The mountains of Afghanistan didn’t matter . . . until they did.
So what the heck, why not just let a fledging democracy buy the farm. I mean really, when is the next Hollywood award show?
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
obviously you don't understand the word treason....I'll give you a clue, it is not nuanced.
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:11PM EST (link)Treason, as defined by dictionary.com is:
Sorry but I believe the State Dept. passes muster on at least the third accepted definition.
You are correct that words have meanings, unfortunately where you fail is that you don’t understand those meanings. What a pity.
Now I suggest you wake up and smell the coffee. Their are many in this government who are treasonous and have gone on unopposed because of people being too afraid to stand up for themselves due to political correctness.
You should really look up what a word means before you go accusing someone of incorrect or dangerous usage.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Neither Aaron nor I used the word 'traitor' in this thread
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:13PM EST (link)Only you and ‘dt’ have used that word here.
So for starters, when you are trying to tell somebody he is wrong, it helps to faithfully reproduce what that person said. And in point of fact, the word ‘traitor’ is loosely defined.
Specifically I used ‘treason’, which is of course well-defined in the Constitution. Both Aaron and I have mentioned the State Dept leaking national secrets to the press – specifically for the purpose of defeating a United States military effort against an enemy that declared war on the United States.
IMHO, that qualifies as ‘adhering to their [the United States'] Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort’. That works for alot of other folks besides me too, sport.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Are you kidding me?
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:20PM EST (link)One of the two countries you mentioned has a free press, the other does not.
One of the two countries you mentioned has free elections, the other does not.
One of the two countries you mentioned has a history of “opportunistic military ventures”, the other does not.
Why would you treat the Russian foreign minister with anything but suspician and contempt?
This is a new strand of the blame America first virus–blame the Westernised country first.
Freedom in the world will either increase or decrease, nothing stays the same. What kind of world do you want to live in?
I can’t believe you actually believe the things you write.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Should US send tanks/troops in Germany
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:20PM EST (link)to Poland and Czech Republic?
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
My point simply was
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:26PM EST (link)Everyone’s claiming things. No one has any real proof of anything.
In case you didn’t notice, I said I didn’t believe the Russians, either.
But, hey, I’m on the enemies list now, so I guess it doesn’t matter anymore. Shrug
Red Storm Rising? nt
Daniel Glenn (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:30PM EST (link)nt
———————————–
“In an insane society, reality is outside of the mainstream.”
“If people are not free to trade with each other, all other freedom is meaningless.”
Don’t blame me. I voted for McCain.
Tighten the noose.
NickLevi86 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:31PM EST (link)H*ll Yes. Reinforce the USEFUL countries of NATO. Re-Arm Alaska while we’re at it.
“Any love letter is incomplete without a Ronald Reagan quote”
–my sophomore year roommate
www.robbinsblog.wordpress.com
My point being...
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:32PM EST (link)This security situation was suddenly untenable, even though it was fine since 1992?
I mean, if you want to fight the Russians, I can understand that position. Just don’t tell me that a status quo ante is suddenly untenable, either.
Now, that's Evidence.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:33PM EST (link)Which is all I’ve wanted all along.
That's a pretty big escalation
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:38PM EST (link)I’d wait for the French mission to try and make progress in Moscow.
You could put them on alert while the Russian attache to Germany makes a visit, though. You know, let them know we care. Maybe see if the Turkish Air Force wants a wargame against the F-22 squadrons.
Sorry but I am calling BS....
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:43PM EST (link)….I looked over your content for the last week and five days of your existence here and from what I have seen you seem to be one of the best mobys on the planet….got all the key words right but your positions are way off base.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I'm not so sure about that.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:44PM EST (link)No one’s throwing around bomb threats yet. Other than the implied possibility of maybe two nuclear powers getting in a tangle.
Even then, I tend to support the late Cold War analysis that said that nuclear threats would be the “Sit down and talk” threat from the losing side in conventional wars.
Hey EPU I did a quick search for JKH1232...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:50PM EST (link)…I found his myspace page and apparently he may be conflicted.
This is the name he has listed as his on on a survey:
Ivan Petorvich Hendrenyvia
‘Nough said.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
*snickers* the french?
NickLevi86 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:52PM EST (link)Seriously?
< /uncontrollable laughter>
IF you thing anything about this was sudden, other than Russia’s sledge-hammer response, you haven’t been paying attention to this at all.
There’s never been a Status Quo really, and they’ve(whoever “they” are/were will always be up to debate) been taking pot-shots at each other from day one in 1991. One should also note that it was Russian puppet President Sheverdnadze, who was ousted by Sakashvili, that allowed the ambiguity in the first place.
“Any love letter is incomplete without a Ronald Reagan quote”
–my sophomore year roommate
www.robbinsblog.wordpress.com
actually JKH1232 it seems everyone has been providing you proof while you claim we are all as ignorant as you.
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:53PM EST (link)I don’t think it’s working….you should try a different strategy.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Yeah, he's a one-week wonder.
NickLevi86 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:53PM EST (link)nt
“Any love letter is incomplete without a Ronald Reagan quote”
–my sophomore year roommate
www.robbinsblog.wordpress.com
I didn't say fighting made sense
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:53PM EST (link)and I didn’t say that any particular form of escalation made sense.
I did say that the “moral equivalence” card was innappropriate in this circumstance, and that people should support the Georgians without reservation.
Georgia was much praised by Bush and sent more soldiers to Iraq per capita than anyone else except the US.
They had 2,000 troups from a country of 4.5 million.
What I am saying is:
(1) Why do people who question the press in other contexts buy the unfair criticism of the pro-US/pro-Western party?
(2) Does the US want to have allies in the future? Because if we do, we need to support in some meaningful way, the Georgians in this.
I am not formulating a policy here and I am not supporting WWIII.
I am saying that the comments on this site are far more disappointing that I would have expected.
Is there anything about Putin that resembles rule of law, individual rights, free elections, etc.?
Do we presume the KGB person is just as honest as a Western-leaning US educated political and philosophical idealist (in the best sense of the word).
Our enemies have over time convinced the people of the world that the US is useless as an ally unless you are France or England.
Maybe in those instances, our enemies were speaking the truth?
This is not the first time that the US encouraged heroic pro-democracy efforts in a foreign land only to let them be smashed with barely a word from the President.
Munich, all over again.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Yes, the French, Seriously.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:58PM EST (link)They’re the one’s trying to mediate the conflict. See what they say. See if they can get a compromise. The proposal seems to be multi-national forces in S. Otessia.
There’s no need to off half-cocked here.
Russia Has No Excuse for Being Paranoid
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 6:58PM EST (link)Let’s see…Russia is the largest country in the world in terms of land size at over 17 million square kilometers and spans 12 time zones. By comparison, Georgia is just under 70,000 million square kilometers and resides within one time zone. Russia has no excuse for being paranoid since it has more than enough land to trade away for time to defend itself…which it has done brilliantly against Napoleon and Hitler in the past. Russia doesn’t need additional buffer space (“lebensraum”), nor does it deserve any.
As much as I think of myself as an idealogue
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 6:59PM EST (link)comparing our “fighting” with democrats to the fighting in Georgia is just insensitive.
Words to mean things, and hyperbole is the first step to simply losing perspective.
A nation is in the process of being physically crushed.
We are in a battle of speech for the direction of our country.
No comparison.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Proof of genocide?
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:01PM EST (link)All we have are both sides claiming the other side is doing it. I simply don’t find either one of them very credible.
Make your own decisions.
I would push for immediate entry of Ukraine
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:05PM EST (link)into NATO.
Have Poland and Czech conduct referendums on the missile defense systems . . NOW.
Joint navy exercises with Ukraine.
and send Georgia all of the equipment and supplies that they can possibly use.
Anti-tank and anti-air missiles being high on the list.
Free use of our spy satellites.
Announce that the G-8 no longer includes Russia unless the status quo from last week is quickly gone back to
Start praising Russian dissidents like Kasparov.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Russia Has Blackmailed Ukraine Over Energy
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 7:06PM EST (link)Let’s not forget that Russia has tried to bully Ukraine in the past. First, it tried to assassinate current President Viktor Yuschenko via…poison…no suprise there. Second, Russia has a history of blackmailing Ukraine by withholding natural gas at the height of winter to extort more money from Ukraine. Based on the foregoing, there is no question that by seizing Georgia, or installing a pro-Russian puppet government, that Russia will use its ability to control all natural gas from the Caspian Sea to Europe as a means for future blackmail. It is imperative that NATO commence military action against Russian troops that are illegally on Georgian soil.
So, because we don't agree...
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:06PM EST (link)I’m a moby? I just think we happen to be conservatives who disagree. I don’t think there’s One True Conservatism, just like I’ll bet you don’t think the Roman Catholics are The One True Faith.
Unless you’re a Catholic. Maybe you do, then.
I just so happen to think that a full scale war with one of the world’s major powers in their own backyard isn’t something to just jump into blindly.
I'm all for supporting the Georgians
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:11PM EST (link)The question is, largely, how. I’m not sure that rapid escalations that we can’t control is the best method- though, I’m hearing a lot of people think that’s the way. In fact, the only way. There’s a lot of all or nothing flowing around here. Either you’re for total war with Russia over Georgia, or you want to sell them down the river, and that’s the end of the world.
All I’m saying is that we need to be careful- I think we can preserve an independent, democratic Georgia just fine without sending in an airborne corps and the Sixth Fleet.
Which is exactly the logic people use
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:11PM EST (link)to justify staying neutral with regards to Israel/PLO or US/Iraq.
One side respects the rule of the law, the other doesn’t
One side has freedome of speech, the other doesn’t
One side values human rights, the other doesn’t
One side has a history of military aggression, the other doesn’t
So go stick you head in the sand and say “hey, nobody has clean hands here.” Very Obama-like.
Blame the West first, or at least treat Western governments as equivalent to Dictatorships.
Thanks
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Hyperbole is the internet's greatest danger.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:13PM EST (link)From any side, really.
I have, you seem to be the one trying to play both sides of an issue....n/t
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:14PM EST (link)n/t
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
If you give the KGB the same credibility
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:14PM EST (link)as a pro-Western democratically elected government, you are either being foolish or acting on bad faith.
I haven’t decided which one yet, so I am not calling you an enemy.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Russkie Agent
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 7:16PM EST (link)So we have a Russkie agent in our midst. Why am I not surprised.
No, There's a difference
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:21PM EST (link)Israel’s been proven to be credible. I have enough evidence to know what’s going on- that the Palestinians want to kill all the Jews. That’s easy.
Most anti-US reporting from Iraq lacks credibility. They’ve been proven wrong time and time again.
The Russian state press lacks credibility. It’s a mouthpiece for Putin.
The problem is, I’m not seeing the Georgian government playing it straight, either. Not that they should- they have a dog in the fight, after all. I’m just saying that I’d like independent confirmation that such things are going on.
this comment is a good reason to call you a moby...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:21PM EST (link)…I haven’t said anything about going to war with Russia as you assert. What I would like to see is a response from America in the lines of an attack on a potential NATO member and ally in the GWOT will not be tolerated. This twisting of words by you all to express your overwhelming concern is what classifies you as a Moby…
Hinz Rule being enacted now.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
And why would Russia ever want to listen?
NickLevi86 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:21PM EST (link)Negotiations only work from a position of power. (i.e. nukes being tho only reason we’ve even considered talking to Iran and the NorKoms.)
Let us list our(including the EU) positions of leverage:
1)Diplomatic-”We won’t like you any more.”
Clearly, they never liked us in the first place.
2)Economic-”Take our ball(and our money) and go home”
Embargoes only work on tin-horn thugs, and even that’s in doubt, not historic World Powers. Russia is self sufficient in food and energy, and is trying to make us DEpendent on them for the latter.
3)Physical-”Mine’s bigger!” Size may matter, but not when what you do with it is nothing that counts. Theirs is in use, ours isn’t. Moot point.
So you see my friend, Russia had a free hand (in more than Georgia) unless we dig our (courageous piece of anatomy of choice) out of Grampa’s attic and do more than Chamberlain-esque whines for peace.
“Any love letter is incomplete without a Ronald Reagan quote”
–my sophomore year roommate
www.robbinsblog.wordpress.com
I am
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:22PM EST (link)Because I don’t have enough information to make a decision yet. There’s too much he said/she said.
yet you tell me in the previous commetn to make my own decisions...heh...convienent...n/t
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:35PM EST (link)n/t
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Hey, I'd like to believe them.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:36PM EST (link)Ethnic Cleansing is a really, really big charge, and it’s one that gets levelled very casually. If you want someone to pay attention, just say the other guy’s trying to wipe you from the earth. I’d need some evidence.
Also, their claims of 50 Russian aircraft destroyed is quite hard to follow.
Do I think Putin would like very much to force the Georgian government out? That’s more believeable.
Russia has track record for Genocide
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 7:36PM EST (link)Russia has quite a track record in committing genocide — against its own people no less. Generous assessments indicate that Russia exterminated at least 20 million of its citizens during WW2, which is more than Nazi Germany exterminated. Arkady Schevchenko, who formerly reported to Andrei Gromyko, once estimated that Russia exterminated at least 50 million various peoples in the name of communism. Finally, if one is Polish, who can ever forget the Katyn Massacre at the end of WW2. There very well be no genocide going on at this moment, but if there was, I would bet the farm that Russia is deliberately committing genocide instead of Georgia.
It depends on what they want...
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:40PM EST (link)And what price they think they’ll have to pay to get it.
You seem to be assuming that I support handing it all over. I don’t. We should make it clear that we back Georgia. Do it backchannel rather than in the open, since you have to give them a chance to save face. Make some noise about the G-8. Have our UN ambassador say some unkind things.
Basically, privately show we support the Georgians, let them know this might just get out of hand, and see how they react.
"Not ready to decide yet" is, essentialy, a decision. (n/t)
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:42PM EST (link)n/t
And you seem to assume
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:48PM EST (link)That I’m all for selling out the Georgians. So, assumedly, we’re both making foolish assumptions about the other, aren’t we?
no it's inherently not a decision...in fact it is the complete opposite....n/t
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 7:56PM EST (link)n/t
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
quote where I ever assumed your position on Georgia...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:08PM EST (link)You can’t because I haven’t….the only things I have commented on are your comment on Treason and the subsequent posts of EPU and myself. I have attack your position or assumed your position because you have yet to state your position, only opposition to the position of others.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I've decided...
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:10PM EST (link)Not to decide yet and wait for more evidence. We can go ’round this tree all night, and not get anywhere.
NATO's Military Intervention is Necessary
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 8:14PM EST (link)Putin has no respect for diplomacy or harsh language. He was behind the assassination attempt on Ukraine’s Viktor Yuschenko and was certainly behind the assassination of Alexander Litvenenko. Putin respects only raw, unadulterated military force.
Accordingly, NATO must respond to Russia with military force. No one is advocating all out war…unless that is what Putin wants. NATO’s ultimatum to Russia must be clear and unequivocal: either remove all Russian forces out of Georgia and South Ossetia or else any Russian forces on or over Georgia will be subject to destruction by NATO forces. NATO has numerous military assets at its disposal in the local region such as the Mediterranean Sixth Fleet, Air Wings based in Germany and Turkey, and US divisions in nearby Iraq that are no longer needed now that Iraq has stabilized.
Give the French a chance
David Hinz (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:23PM EST (link)after all, since we took down Saddam Hussein the poor French have been forced to do without all that Arms-For-Oil money that he was funneling to them.
Now they have a change to make a little graft money off the Russians and it is not fair for us to try to take it away from them.
The Minority Report — The HinzSight Report — TMRB.tv — MFOB “Miss Tagart, do you know the hallmark of the second-rater? It’s resentment of another man’s achievement.”
Military Force may mean all out war.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:32PM EST (link)When militaries from opposing nations in tense situations occur, bad things tend to happen. The possibility that that A Russian might shoot an American becomes very serious when there are Russians and Americans looking at each other on the ground.
Putin seems to be taking what he can get. Speaking softly while conspicuously cleaning our shotgun will probably get us what we want in the most controlled way possible.
now that's funny!
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:32PM EST (link)although it must be said here that everybody, no matter who it is, is allowed to put forth and defend points.
His failing is not that he may be both Boris and Natasha – but that he is attempting without success to counter our charge that the U.S. State Department is deeply, deeply infested with America-hating bureaucrats who have acted materially to commit treason.
But in the meantime I say…
GO GEORGIA!
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
again this "from any side"
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:35PM EST (link)Do you think of yourself as at least generally being on the side of freedom?
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Sounds like you are solidly in the
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:36PM EST (link)“do nothing” side.
The opposite of hyperbole is just as ridiculous.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Got another broker in mind?
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:37PM EST (link)It’s easy to be flip, but both sides seem to be willing to talk to each other through France. Perfect? Probably not. Better than nothing? Yeah.
Russia Must Apologize for 100 Years of Theft, Rape, and Murder
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 8:40PM EST (link)In addition to the above ultimatum, NATO should also demand of Russia the following: “Lower your flags and march straight back to Russia stopping at every Georgian home you pass to beg forgiveness for a hundred years of theft, rape, and murder. Do that, and your men shall live. Do it not, and every one of you will die today.”
No.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:41PM EST (link)I’m not. Do you want to know what I’d suggest doing? Or would it be just in one ear and out the other?
In other words, would you like a serious conversation, or just the two of us crossing our arms at each other and trying to win an internet fight?
I'm pulling for OSU myself.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:44PM EST (link)Well, them and the Caucasian republic.
All I'm assuming...
NickLevi86 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 8:44PM EST (link)is that you’re wrong that there is no side to choose. Moraly, no, but is there ever in war(yes, I lean theologicaly pacifist)? That leaves the choice up to our own best interest, which is clearly NOT Russian Power Trips.
Sure Georgia stepped in it, and is now having their nosed rubbed in it by Russia. The issue at hand is no longer who’s fault, but who’s victory works better for us. Again, clearly not Russia’s.
Catholic France joined the Protestants in the 30-Year’s War just to counter the Habsburgs.
“Any love letter is incomplete without a Ronald Reagan quote”
–my sophomore year roommate
www.robbinsblog.wordpress.com
I'm not saying there's no side to choose
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 9:07PM EST (link)What I am saying is let’s give the French mission a chance to produce a compromise we can live with.
France is peddling a demilitarized S. Ossetia with a multinational peacekeeper force. At least, that’s what I read. Georgia would accept that- and, really, considering the conditions, that’s a net plus for us.
Talk is Cheap
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 9:07PM EST (link)NATO has been speaking softly while continually cleaning its shotgun for over 50 years. Apparently, that is insufficient for Russia to desist from invading a small, tiny democracy simply because it is too thin skinned to tolerate a democratically elected leader who doesn’t kiss Kremlin ass. No…the time for talk is over…it is time for NATO to begin destroying hostile Russian forces for the sake of humanity.
amen, but how about my question
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 9:21PM EST (link)US/NATO tanks from Germany forward to Poland/Czech Republic?
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Our leverage over Russia.....
nod90 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 9:54PM EST (link)…is probably political and economic. The G8 can become the G7 very quickly. Russia never really belonged in that group.
Another issue is that the Russian have shown interest in buying stakes in Europeans companies such as Airbus and some others in the energy field. Banning them from buying stakes in US or European companies probably makes sense anyway.
Then there is the question of things like Boeing’s design center in Moscow. We could impose punitive tariffs on non-commodity exports. Russia’s non-oil economy is still quite weak and it needs to be able to trade with the West.
We could discourage investment in Russia by giving unfavorable tax treatment to earnings from Russian investments.
All these things would work much better if the US and EU act together.
Russia Now Threatening Baltic States and Poland
Octavian Monday, August 11th at 10:03PM EST (link)Yesterday I indicated that allowing Georgia to fall with nary a feeble protest from NATO would embolden Russia to begin looking toward devouring the Baltic and former Eastern Bloc nations. Now, there is a report that Russia is threatening to make Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland pay. Their crimes — allowing their citizens to publicly criticize Russia.
Friends, I have been accused of being shrill. I plead guilty and will continue to be shrill in sounding the alarm about Russia and Vladimir Putin.
On a personal note, I recently visited Poland a couple of months ago. It was my second trip and my wife’s first trip to her grandmother’s homeland. I first visited Poland in 1999. Ten years after the fall of communism, the Polish were still struggling to shake off the stench of communism. Now, nearly twenty years later, Poland is vibrant and alive. I WILL BE DAMNED IF I AM GOING TO SIT BY SILENTLY WATCHING RUSSIA DESTROY 20 YEARS OF DEMOCRATIC PROGRESS IN EASTERN EUROPE simply because it has a thin skin and is habitually paranoid.
The time for NATO to confront Russia with military force in Georgia is NOW. Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of young men may die on the barren fields of Georgia and South Ossetia but that will be a far smaller price to pay now than millions of lives on the fields of Eastern Europe in the near future if Russia is not stopped NOW.
links?
dt (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 10:24PM EST (link)Since you invited me to continue, could I trouble you for links on the first point (I’ll trust you on the second, though my few minutes of googling didn’t turn up anything obvious beyond the Plame story, which I assume you don’t mean)? In fact, I know of members of the department of state serving in posts in Iraq and Afghanistan as we speak, not to mention diplomats serving all over the world faithfully carrying out U.S. policy, regardless of whether they agree with it.
Even if you’re correct on both points (and that’s obviously not something I’m prepared to grant), it still wouldn’t amount to treason. I challenge you to find a U.S. Attorney who would be willing to prosecute any employee of the department of state for treason on the grounds you’ve mentioned and with the evidence available.
because the disease is deep and spreading...n/t
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 10:55PM EST (link)n/t
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
So what is that you call "Democracy"
One_Russian_guy Monday, August 11th at 10:59PM EST (link)I wonder how you all blind and stupid…
Esp the man who’s name is octavian.
I was just surfing inet and couldn’t stay away and do not register and tell you my opinion when I saw all this b*llshit.
What do you know about us, about our country? I think nothing that you know is true… Have you ever been there?! Not!
While I’ve been In United States
Do you know anything else except your own language?! NOT!
Does your country has your own culture?! NOT!! Because your country consist of all nationalities and people of the world!
Why do you think that u have any right just to judge anybody?!!! Go and learn your place!
Instead of that you are telling things that are not going to stop all this nightmare! You want this war? We NOT!
We are saving our people, our citizens.
So what is that you call "Democracy"
One_Russian_guy Monday, August 11th at 11:01PM EST (link)I wonder how you all blind and stupid…
Esp the man who’s name is octavian.
I was just surfing inet and couldn’t stay away and do not register and tell you my opinion when I saw all this b*llshit.
What do you know about us, about our country? I think nothing that you know is true… Have you ever been there?! Not!
While I’ve been In United States
Do you know anything else except your own language?! NOT!
Does your country has your own culture?! NOT!! Because your country consist of all nationalities and people of the world!
Why do you think that u have any right just to judge anybody?!!! Go and learn your place!
Instead of that you are telling things that are not going to stop all this nightmare! You want this war? We NOT!
We are saving our people, our citizens.
So what is that you call "Democracy"
One_Russian_guy Monday, August 11th at 11:01PM EST (link)I wonder how you all blind and stupid…
Esp the man who’s name is octavian.
I was just surfing inet and couldn’t stay away and do not register and tell you my opinion when I saw all this b*llshit.
What do you know about us, about our country? I think nothing that you know is true… Have you ever been there?! Not!
While I’ve been In United States
Do you know anything else except your own language?! NOT!
Does your country has your own culture?! NOT!! Because your country consist of all nationalities and people of the world!
Why do you think that u have any right just to judge anybody?!!! Go and learn your place!
Instead of that you are telling things that are not going to stop all this nightmare! You want this war? We NOT!
We are saving our people, our citizens.
So what is that you call "Democracy"
One_Russian_guy Monday, August 11th at 11:04PM EST (link)I wonder how you all blind and stupid…
Esp the man who’s name is octavian.
I was just surfing inet and couldn’t stay away and do not register and tell you my opinion when I saw all this b*llshit.
What do you know about us, about our country? I think nothing that you know is true… Have you ever been there?! Not!
While I’ve been In United States
Do you know anything else except your own language?! NOT!
Does your country has your own culture?! NOT!! Because your country consist of all nationalities and people of the world!
Why do you think that u have any right just to judge anybody?!!! Go and learn your place!
Instead of that you are telling things that are not going to stop all this nightmare! You want this war? We NOT!
We are saving our people, our citizens.
Sorry for multiple posting
One_Russian_guy Monday, August 11th at 11:14PM EST (link)It’s just a problem with my browser..
Awaiting for your comments, guys
Right, an 'accident'
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 11:32PM EST (link)Just like you imperialist conquerors accidentally attacked the Georgian Internet lines?
And how your ‘peacekeepers’ are pushing toward the Georgian capital?
Give me a break. Just have the courage to admit that you have no respect for human life, or the rule of law, for anyone but Russians.
Sieg Heil!
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Actually, we do call it Democracy.
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 11:40PM EST (link)e’ve been doing it for a good couple of hundred years. We’re actually so good, people look to us to figure out how to do it. We’ve inspired constitutions since the Declarations of the Rights of Man in 1791, and many more since then.
We don’t have a culture because we have many nationalities? Brother, we have a vibrant culture because of those nationalities. Where else can you hear music from classical to country to rock to rap to reagge, all produced by artists in the same country? Most of which were, I might add, invented or perfected here. Because of our multi-national makeup.
Don’t like music? Our films are renouned the world over for their complexity, cinematography and acting, even today. And we don’t even thing they’re very good anymore! But still, it’s very hard to find as vibrant and interesting a film or television spectrum outside of the United States.
Or perhaps you’d like to discuss physical culture? The United States produces the best atheletes in the world, hands down. You may think we’re a country of fat slobs. How many gold medals have you won this Olympics?
We don’t speak other languages? Well, as for myself, I’m decent in German, French, Spanish and Latin. Heck, I can fake Italian. But I admit I’m unusual. But it doesn’t matter. No matter where you go, people know English. Why? Because it’s just that important. English is the world’s lingua franca. A real tribute to the importance and power of the US in the world economy and world culture.
What do I know about Russia? Not as much as I could. I know Russian novels are pretty good. I know Russian women are beautiful, but crazy. I know you have good vodka, but, honestly, Finland and Canada do it better.
And I know you’re lead by a petty thug.
we judge your country by its freedoms
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 11:49PM EST (link)or lack thereof.
Voted for any non-gangsters lately?
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Rice has made statements about the "Palestinians"
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 11:54PM EST (link)that are pretty gosh darn questionable.
Calling them resistance fighters?
I don’t recall a Democratic Secretary of State uttering such nonsense.
She needs to go–it can’t be soon enough.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
THere's a vetting process
JKH1232 (Diary) Monday, August 11th at 11:54PM EST (link)I don’t think they let non-Gangsters run in Russia, EPU. I’m pretty sure there’s a “Made Your Bones” clause in the Constitution, such as it is, in Russia.
LOL 5!!
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 1:50AM EST (link)Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I know quite a bit about your country
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:03AM EST (link)its history, and culture.
I like the culture, and many of your citizens (I went to law school with 2 of them), but the history is hardly flattering. Definitely nothing to strive to imitate. The U.S. has done more good for other nations and civilization at large in one year than Russia does in 100 (it is only due to Russia’s rich culture that the ratio is not further out of whack).
Stalin is the second most successful mass murderer in all of human history. True, he was a Georgian, but the USSR was not possible without Russia so you can take the “credit” for that.
Be a big boy and take it. The US gets criticized all the time. When you were reaming Bush a new one because of Iraq, I’ll bet the one thing you didn’t hear here was (1) whining; or (2) protestations about not judging us.
Grow up. There are many in this country who proudly call ourselves Americans who know exactly what Russia has done to its neighbors. The good news is, we have learned many lessons from history and for the most part, are teamed up to resist Russia.
You are not going to see disputes in the future between a Poland and a Ukraine, or a Czech and a Slovenian. We know where the threats/enemies are and will distinguish between disagreements between friends and threats by “gentlemen” such as Mr. Putin.
Who am I to judge the situation? I am a free man given rights by God to exercise my heart, mind, and soul in the pursuit of being the best person I can be. In that vane, I condem the Russian aggression against Georgia with every ounce of my 100% soul. In this country, you cannot shut me up, threaten me, burn down my house, etc. to shut me up. In your country, well . . . you know the drill.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
"Wrong information always shown by the Media, negative images are the main criteria" (c)
Alexaandra Tuesday, August 12th at 2:10AM EST (link)Guys…it’s pity watching that again people are separated by politics…misunderstanding…dirty games of politicans…
I am russian. And I love my homecountry. I love America also, its my second home. There are stupid and smart in every country! What’s the point of fighting?? Most of the people just want to LIVE, bring up their kids, go to work, BE HAPPY! I am one of them..
Th problem in this situation is – you do not see how much Georgia is agressive.
1. They trained their soldiers 10-6 months prior to the events of August;
2. They have been buying weapons,etc from 15 of european contries + U.S.
3. If your relatives, U.S. citizens who live in the neighbourhood – Mexico, f.e. – were killed in their houses, with their kids – WHAT WOULD YOU DO??? Stay aside and watch??? The same is with South Osetia..50% or even more people leaving there are Russian citizens..
And..I do not understand – how it is possible to raise a war during Olympiad??? It’s been prohibited centuries ago…It’s very easy to kill 10,000 people leaving in South Osetia and annex that territory to the Georgia, empty & nice!!!
Between America and Russia..Now it’s more than Information war.. In Georgia they stopped broadcasting Russian channels, banned .ru zone…to hide real facts..My american friends are calling me to ask “Hej, what’s goin’ on???”
Remember: “Wrong information always shown by the Media, negative images are the main criteria” (c)
Don’t let yourselves to be BRAINWASHED!!!
Right back at you buddy
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:19AM EST (link)Compare the western press to Pravda,and ask again who is brainwashed?
In the West, we get exposed to all sides.
In Russia, Pravda is telling all sorts of fictions unworthy of a modern country in the 21st Century.
If the rule is the opposite of what the Media says, then after reading Pravda, I conclude that Putin is the one in the wrong here.
P.S. Please don’t try to intervene in any other countries to “help” them—tney don’t want it.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
South Osetia
Alexaandra Tuesday, August 12th at 2:19AM EST (link)A nation has right to define itself in a separate country – it is said in the Constitution of Rusiia.
You think, after Georgia killed almost whole city Tshinvali, osetians will be happy to be the part of a country-killer???
No offense, but I take the side of the country
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:21AM EST (link)that does the following:
preserves free speech and freedoms of the press
has free elections
enforces the rule of law
doesn’t have a history of military aggression
So, yes, I take Georgia’s side on this one.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Pravda?
Alexaandra Tuesday, August 12th at 2:26AM EST (link)But somehow America is still “helping” Iraq…
Contradiction? ))) ok, you may say its another situation, ok.
You know, I do not even know what “Pravda” you are talking about..It is a Newspaper?
I do not read newspapers, because I was working as a journalist and I know how the news ARE MADE UP.
the real source – Internet, international and russian blogs, news, to see the whole image, as you see.
Th Truth is somewhere there…
Discuss, speak out – its the only way not to get lost!!
Yes---but we tell Russia they have 24 hours to stop
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:27AM EST (link)otherwise, we move
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
You fail to acknowledge a basic
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:34AM EST (link)difference between the US and Russia, the difference between a Western democracy and an authoritarian state.
Name one country that the US has taken over the past 100 years.
Compare West Germany in 1975 to East Germany in 1975.
Compare Greece in 1965 to Poland in 1965.
Where Russia goes, people are oppressed.
Where the US goes, people prosper.
We fought Japan, look at Japan now.
Russia built the Berlin wall to keep people in. So many people want to come to the US that we need to build a wall to keep them out.
If you do not see the fundamental difference between the way the U.S. applies force and the history of Russia, then you are blinding yourself.
Whether intentionally or not, I cannot say.
The idea that Georgians, a people who have spent 90% of the cultural history occupied by Russia, are somehow aggressive is laughable. I am not a Pravda reader–I don’t believe anything you tell me because KGB says thats the way I should be.
P.S. and don’t even think about Poland
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Ideal country
Alexaandra Tuesday, August 12th at 2:35AM EST (link)Are u kidding me? )))
- Free elections? do u know the story with Georgian elections??? ))))
- freedom of the Press…I am telling you, they cut off all the international channels, russian as well. the only one is pro-official Voice of America…It is not Freedom of press, I suppose!
- Georgia had history with military aggression, check it out, with Abkhasia.. And you forget that Georgia IS THE AGRESSOR in this war…
I know, neither my country, nor yours are ideal! Remember lack of true information about Iraq & Chechnya; Aggression in Vietnam,in Afganistan; re-writing history after that…loud words of politicans,….
I also want to be the citizen of such a good country! but the reality is far from that…
we need to live in peace!!!
Read about 1938
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:41AM EST (link)and if you can tell me something in support of Russia’s actions in 2008 about Georgia that aren’t quotes from what the Germans said in 1938 about the mountainous regions of Czechoslavakia, I will be impressed.
Armed ruffians? Check
Formenting unrest? Check
Proclaiming the right to use force in the sovereign territories of other nations? Check
Alleging unfair treatment of its own “citizens”? Check
Short madman orchestrating events? Check
So, will Putin grow a mustache?
I mean, can’t Russia at least try to be unique and creative? What happened to Russian culture? Literary talent? Make a new playbook for heaven sake. People read the 20th Century book of totalitarian moves, and we are familiar with them.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
poor georgia
Alexaandra Tuesday, August 12th at 2:45AM EST (link)I know how the Japanese were prosperious after U.S. fought them…Hirasima…Nagasaki…
ok. clear. But Bad peace is better that good war. You know it perfectly, I guess.
If you think Georgia is small – I agree. But South Osetia is even smaller.and Agression was towards Osetia.
It’s all about money..gaspipe in Georgia…oil in Iraq..guys..oildollars make killing
P.S. Russia does not need Poland. You know, we don’t even need Ukraine. ) Let them go. We can cope without them. I feel pity for Poland, I mean, historically it’s been divided by Austria or by Germany, or by Russia.. It’s good they are now separate.Now we need to forgive and live in peace!!!
On the scales of rule of law and freedom
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:47AM EST (link)Russia isn’t even close to Georgia.
How many Georgian political candidates get arrested during the campaign?
How many foreign leaders and journalists are poisoned by Georgian intelligence officials?
How many countries as Georgia taken over in the past 100 years?
THe bottom line is this: Putin thinks the fall of the USSR was a tragedy. That makes him as anti-freedom as they come.
Do you want the USSR to come back? Do you consider the fall of the USSR to be a tragedy?
No country is idea/perfect. Of course you are correct in that. However, some nations and governments are closer to good than others.
The US isn’t perfect, but I’ll take the US on its worst day over the Russia at its best.
Ditto for Georgia, Ukrain, Baltic States, Poland, Czech, etc.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
So you admit that countries where the US is involved
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:53AM EST (link)actually become better places to live, and places where Russia gets involved become pits where people get shot trying to escape.
US:
Japan
West Germany
Italy
Russia conquers, the US assists
The US leaves voluntarily when asked, Russians stay and use tanks against civilians, build walls, etc.
The only reason why places like Poland are free is because the USSR collapsed.
Japan is free because the US was determined to help Japan implement a Western style rule of law democracy.
You don’t need Georgia either. Leave them alone. Russia has more land than any other country. Georgia is a dot on the map.
If you want peace, leave Georgia be.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
People in Japan are very Pro-US
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 2:59AM EST (link)People in Poland and Western Ukraine never want to see another Russian again.
Even with the dropping of two atom bombs on Japan, the US is very much in friendship with Japan.
Makes you realize how much bad blood Russia has generated with its neighbors over the past 500 years.
You ask for peace, yet you aren’t asking Putin to stop the violence.
You ask for peace, but you haven’t renounced Putin’s statement on the USSR.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
we just can not stay and watch innocent people being killed
Alexaandra Tuesday, August 12th at 5:22AM EST (link)Again, let me remind you, Georgia is agressor. Or not? Really, I need to know!
What’s your opinion – they were right, I mean, killing Osetins and forcing them to surrender, because South Osetia is not official country, therefore, is considered as a part of Georgia – so Georgians can do whatever they want?
Yep, its like in Kosovo conflict. Peacemakers stayed aside while croats went and killed thousands and thousands serbians..What is correct? To stay along our border (North Osetia) and watch mass murdering with american weapon, ukranian planes, etc?
And please answer not being politican, but HUMAN. because human life is the most precious thing ever!
You quoting Solzhenisyn..But even he loved his country and till the last breath has been thinking on “How to arrange everything in Russia” …And reading him and all other writers repressed during Soviet times I felt ashamed of country who had lost its HUMAN face!!! Because the Leaders followed false targets!We must avoid this in future. And the real target is HUMANISM.
But, again, you think Russia has not learned anything from past? Learned, I am sure, I see it. There are a lot of people, smart, intelligent and well-informed in Russia. But mass media continues calling Russia “bear”,etc…
nothing has changed for them since Cold war… same prejudices..
:::while being in America I was asked if we have electricity and if I know how to use PC?
)))))):::
Resume: to save 1000 of innocent lives in Tshinvali was more valuable than political correctness, don’t you think? Because when you can save someone’s life and you don’t – it’s a sin.
I am sure, if Georgians would try to negotiate with Osetins,- not go and kill – if they tried to do it in other PEACEFUL CIVILIZED way, there would be no tragedy, Russia would not react this way.
p.s. u r not askin’ for peace, but Saakashvili is treated as a hero. Absurd. Agressor, who started invasion, is treated as a poor thing!
I can not ask Putin to stop violence, because it is protective measures. We stopped now, but Georgia – not.
I agree reg. bad blood, only time can treat it and free communication between nations! I believe in that. If not – our world as bad as we deserve.
P.S. nobody needs Georgia. we just can not stay and watch innocent people being killed.
About USSR
Alexaandra Tuesday, August 12th at 5:49AM EST (link)You know, my parents were born in USSR, lived, believed in the Party, were building this communism, whatever! They’ve been brainwashed 70 years. Of course, it affects now…You can not just put in trash everything you believed in! They used to be proud of their country and for this Belief they had forgiven a lot of crimes, too much.
But there were a lot of good things too!Development of sport, care about retired people, abandoned kids,… It’s always like this – you can not say: this is totally wrong, and this is 100% right. It’s all mixed..
I don’t care much about USSR. I read about it from the books. It’s not my story. I believe in new Russia. Something goes wrong, something’s good. We have beautiful nature, women, better education (by comparison), mind and strength.
You are telling about bombs in Japan..Let me tell you one thing: you could invest hundreds of billions in japanese economics but THEY WOULD NEVER FORGET. Have you seen reports describing those days? Books? spoke with people?Reason why they developed after War – in order to be able to compete in this new world. To be able to protect.To kill and then be nice – its go*damn hard to imagine!!!
In the 21 century everybody, every country is trying to get involved in international affairs, to have influence, power. Power, money, fight for resourses – that’s the problem, the main target.
And a small man is forgotten in his tiny flat trying to live his own life honestly and peacefully, to raise kids, give them education, etc
But the state, country and all these politics are created in order to serve that small man!!! to make his life better!
And if it’s opposite, leaders should be shanged.
I may tell you – life in Russia goes better, by little steps, but better.
Typical Russian Propoganda
Octavian Tuesday, August 12th at 6:29AM EST (link)Dobroya Utra, Alexaandra,
I have read your posts spouting Russian propanda with great amusement. Please spare me the propoganda that Russia is somehow now the champion of little peoples in places like Abkhazia or South Ossetia given that Russia executed anywhere from 20 Million to 50 Million of its own people under Vladimir Putin’s beloved communism for the glory of the Rodina. Please spare me the propoganda that Russia is not trying to eliminate President Mikhail Saakashvili when Putin has quite a sordid history of assassinating or trying to assassinate political leaders like Viktor Yuschenko and Alexander Litvenenko. Please spare me the propoganda that Russia’s invasion of Georgia was a “protective measure” because it clearly was not given that the Russian Foreign minister admitted that the goal was to remove the democratically elected President Mikhail Saakashvili from office. Putin may believe that the Russian people are gullible enough to fall for his transparent lies but you are sadly mistaken if you think the free peoples of the West are just as gullible.
Dos Vedanya,
Octavian
Comparing?
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 6:52AM EST (link)I am just stating the fact.
A. Is Russia a Communist Country?
B. Besides logistics due to the continuing US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, who will be first to antagonize Pres. Bush if he makes a drastic action against Russia?
C. Are US Democrats Communists (socialist, progressive, whatever)?
C. Am I making a comparsion here between the Georgia-Russia and US GOP-Democrat conflicts?
D.. Is it wrong and DANGEROUS (as mentioned by another follow up comment) to use ideological adjectives like “Communist” with regards to the principles of the Democrats, especially at the Internet?
On another matter: McCain can never win this election if we cannot prove to many of the Americans (especially the swing voters) the fact that BO is a lying subtle Communist… a worst kind of Leader for America.
Occam's Razor . . .
dt (Diary) Tuesday, August 12th at 8:00AM EST (link)doesn’t support such a grandiose conclusion.
the facts
Della Morte Tuesday, August 12th at 9:20AM EST (link)I am just stating the fact. Youre facts sound more like opinion then anything else. You even admit that the “facts” you publish can at times be false to others in every way. Thats not really a fact if its only true to you. Get a dictionary and look up “opinion”
Uhh.. If knowing things was correlated to distance traveled… You would have only taken a walk around the block around youre house! russia is more like a mobocracy.. they give the russians some turkey and everyone is happy..
Are you M.A.D. man? Whats Bush gonna do? I don’t think republicans will want to take any direct military action either. This isnt some third world nation where we can stomp on in a few weeks like when we invaded iraq. Its a Third world nation with a thousand nukes still pointed at us and are still keeping up with us in military hardware.
Look up the word communist.. If you are saying FDR, JFK, or LBJ where communists. Please go buy a dictionary. Or just goto dictionary.com and look it up. Since “technically” you don’t even know what the word pertains to or means.
So uhh C #2 check out like A, B, and C#1. And btw you do compare as in youre whole second paragraph. Come on now! You say you arent comparing them then went on a huge comparison list. The only people who dont want dialogues with countries with nukes are terrorists.. and as we seen with what happens to those terrorists that “terrorize” in either russia or the usa.. They get dead fast.
Conservatives are afraid of calling people communists but not affraid of confronting the right to privacy and Roe Vs Wade? You should get out more. Conservatives and republicans have more… how you say? balls.. then you give them credit for. If they didnt have such guts to stand on issues that are explosive like that then they would not be in DC at all. The reason why republicans are relevant instead of say the green party or the libertarian party is because republicans have guts to stick on thier issues no matter how controversial to the MSM they are. Thats a sign of leadership and voters don’t vote for weaklings who wont fight tooth and nail for the issues that the voters and the candidate believe in.
BTW if you think witch hunts on americans by americans for “though crimes” or because of association are a good thing. Then you woulda made a perfect fit working under “uncle joe”. He shared youre same ideas like mccarthy did.. Mccarthy was a stalin lite.. luckly we live in the usa and got rid of paranoid fools like him before more serious damage could happen.
Uhhh McCain won’t win it that way.. Since most Americans know the cold war is over… That communism is OVER and that all those countries that claim to be communist are more capitalist then western europe. Also you use “fact” and “communist” like you dont even know what those words mean..
calling him a “socialist” would be more appropriate since well.. socialists senators already cacuses with the democrats… lemme give you a lil plan of something that could work.
1)socialist senators Bernie Sanders cacuses with the democrats..
2) the fact that he votes in line with most democrats could then be brought up if obama has socialistic tendencies in his voting record
3) connections if any exsist with the two
4) ???
5) profit!
why this would work better then calling obama a communist and praising mccarthy? well you see… in america.. the impact of the word “communist” changed into a bunch of nothing to main stream america. however the word “socialism” is a very loaded word and a very dirty toxic word right now.. get it?
“It’s our daunted restraint that keeps us silent in shame.”
Please do not pick at my grammar. I suffer from dysgraphia which makes writing extremely difficult.
Dear Octavian,
Alexaandra Wednesday, August 13th at 12:09AM EST (link)If you don’t speak Russian, then do not
it’s hard to learn the spelling: Dobroye utro! and
Do svidaniya!
Anyway thank you for being polite.
Again, let me remind you that Georgia has started aggression, not us. We reacted according rules for Peacemakers agreed in Organization of United Nations.
I was watching CNN yesterday… Guys, you are shown only Georgia…peanuts..images of Georgia and South Osetia differ so much! yes, the military airport was destroyed by us, but without that they would kill much more people in Osetia. If you could only see what South Osetia looks like now..Ruins. 13,000 people had to run away to the North Osetia, to Russia. Why? Because only Russia protected them. Just think – 13,000 people. In my native city (far from Moscow) lots of donation organizations like “Red Cross” are now gathering clothes, food, medicines in order to HELP that abandoned people.
Why Georgia is not helping their (de jure) citizens?
Even if I was not Russian, I would judge every country, every state (Russia itself, USA, Georgia) that fight against peaceful people, destroy their houses, kill helpless kids and women, etc. If you are human, you have family, etc you will agree.
I understood you opinion. Thank you.
Russia does not need Georgia.Or Saakashvili.He is ambitious and cruel, and if georgians want such President, let it be! Each nation deserves its President, haven’t you heard?
Our Minister as you mentioned said, being exactly, that “Saakashvili has to leave”. But that does not mean that Russia will replace him with “our” person. You know, our contry is so big, that without Georgia it is very hard to be ruled. Nation of Georgia elected him, it’s enough reason. But you must probably know how these elections were “made”. But it’s their business, not ours. If true leader, Saakashvili has to consider and respect wishes and needs of his nation. But now it’s clear that it’s naive to expect this from him…
I suppose that Georgia did this agression in order to get involved in NATO before Mr. Bush is gone from White house and (in my opinion) to boost election process in USA.
It’s just terrible that innocent people are dying for such ridiculous reasons.
More I think about this situation more I understand that de jure Russia, of course, did not have any right to help South Osetia. But in order to save lives of 120,000 people in Tshinvali de facto it should have been done.
And…it’s not a “propoganda” as you said. if you do not want to read – then do not read. This is what we call “Freedom of Press”. If you call it “propoganda” – it’s only your opinion, nothing else.
Interesting how when you talk about the
JSobieski (Diary) Wednesday, August 13th at 12:23AM EST (link)USSR, nothing is 100% bad, but when talking about Georgia, there seems to be a different rule.
The phrase “Georgia started it” ignores all of the events that happened before last, before 1991, and before 1930.
If the two of us go to a bar, and I throw 10 punches at you after which you throw a punch at precisely 12 midnight, can I fairly say “you started it”? Only if we ignore everything that preceeded it.
Nothing is 100% bad, but the USSR was as bad as it gets. The fact that Putin is sad about the passing of the USSR speaks volumes.
Lets try an experiment.
The US will grant 80,000 US passports to some disgruntled Russian citizens in a Russian city. The US will hand out money to become popular, provide weapons, and encourage separist aspirations. We will encourage the “US citizens” to launch rockets into a Russian city. When the Russians respond, the US invades to protect the US citizens in jeopardy?
How would that fly with Mr. Putin?
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Dear Friends,
Alexaandra Wednesday, August 13th at 12:23AM EST (link)The reason I spent 2 days posting these articles is that I just wanted to diclose some more information that you probably are not aware of. If you don’t believe – then don’t!!! But check my words in different sources, see the pictures of ruined South Osetia, just in case. Just to be objective. To undertake impartial assessment if you claim you want to be objective.
If you do not want to be objective, you are sure you know the “true-Truth” – so forget my words, I did it probably in vain, there was no dialogue.
As for me, I understood many things in this discussion, thank you very much for your kind attention and time.
PEACE!
in 21st C every country wants to get involved
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, August 13th at 12:57AM EST (link)Russia’s government is “involved” in aiding terror state Iran and bombing Georgia. And Georgia did what? Attack twin towers? Fund suicide bombers? Are the Russians in the flats cool with being terror’s sponsor?
good?
evil?
mean anything?
or is being involved the be all, end all?
Do the Russian people have souls for OTHERS!?
Or is the oil money what moves them?
values?
read Dostoevsky and the Bible and then get involved
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
'ski, I agree with most of your criticisms
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, August 13th at 1:08AM EST (link)of Bush, but he reasons I am reluctant to attack him are:
1) He is the only President we have and we are a great country. The only thing standing between a world of darkness and the light that flickers as an aberration in 5000 years and that bush gets the good v evil thing.
2) He has won two wars his way and seems to be winning the ideological war as moderate Muslims seem to be rejecting al qaeda.
3) He has been the best in not flinching among all pols since 911. never showing weakness to the enemy
His positives so outweigh the negatives and to attack him is to weaken the US. I think we need to accentuate the positives, which are many.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
wise decision
Alexaandra Wednesday, August 13th at 1:31AM EST (link)That’s wise – to gather more information, evidences and then make your own opinion.
I agree. In politics it’s always like that.
Oks.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Thursday, August 14th at 8:11AM EST (link)Before anything else, I would like the two of you to KNOW that I am a conservative. It didn’t even cross my mind that Conservatives (like me) are coward; but sometimes, we forget the essentials by thinking too much. I wrote this to affirm my courage as rep/con to preserve Reagan’s victory against Communists during the Cold War (currently being discredited by the Democratic Party).
But I will focus on the issue of MAD that you accuse me of, which is most important to this Diary.
Believer of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction)
Let me get it straight: I am not advocating America to go to War against Russia especially if there are other available options. Some of my comments here at RS3.0 and even at RS2.0 will prove that. I believe in the power of negotiation up to extent possible, especially in the case of Georgia. I was even glad to see Putin secretly whispering something to Pres. Bush while I was watching a clip from the Beijing Olympics. But there must be some sort of demand to hold Russia responsible in its actions. This behavior reminds us of the Communist USSR. Just recently, Georgia was complaining that Russia is not really true to its “ceasefire”. Thanks to Pres. Bush for the immediate reliefs and for sending Condi Rice to Russia to immediately resolve the issue.
But I will support the President (Bush or the next) if the only option in the end is a actual confrontation (assuming things escalate, which I pray not.) Does that mean I am a terrorist now to you? *But I am not *[a believer of] *MAD *[I assume you mean the above, not the other way.] This comment of yours concerns me most. MAD means that we will surely lose if we meet the our opponent/s in battle [or I am wrong again?] Your MAD theory has deep implications. Are you technically saying that:
If Item 1 is true, then Democrats would be right in saying that we have become more vulnerable due to Iraq War because our hands are still tied to it. Pres. Bush and McCain’s statements that mean “We e are safer today than before 9/11” would be false. In this respect, I totally disagree with the item I and your MAD. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (very small) are not the totality of US Armed Forces’s capabilities. We’re far more superior to that if need be.
Item 2 means that a Communist Russia (i.e., Russia acting like the old USSR) could continue to coerce the new democracies in Eastern Europe without worrying about US retaliation. Russia could even forge stronger ties with Iran on the latter’s nuclear ambitions. Putin and Medvedev would think that America is NOT STUPID enough to do a “MAD” action against Russia. This may be reasonable to you but, for me, *something is not right. * Among others, MAD theory is the same argument against Bush’s Iraq War by the Democrats and the rest of the modern Communists (Reagan’s antithetical nickname to pacifists). If your MAD Theory is correct, then the following foreign policies of The Left (EE’s term) would be deemed correct:
* Talk, Talk, and never stop Talking”. * Talk means negotiation, or I am wrong again? As you said, stopping negotiation with Russia is technically a terrorism. But I have read so many conservative bloggers who believe that negotiation not supported by “action” is futile.
*Unilateralism is wrong. * Always leave everything to the United Nations, the hallmark of international negotiation. But history tells us that UN has failed its mandate.
*World Government. * This is the called the new International Communism according to the experts (I’m not one of them). The Left argues that the World problems of climate change, terrorism, racism, inequality and poverty can only be addressed by “one” communist world government. One has to renounce the spirit of “nationalism” since it represents narcissism and conflicts among race. [Later, religion.] As conservative, I don’t buy this crap. I will not give up my patriotism because July 4 is the most special day to my family.
But what if negotiation fails? That’s always the question of foreign policy. Should our leaders continue to go on and on… just talking – threatening and condemning? In the end, the last option for Americans in you MAD Theory would be “just bear and accept it” because the other option is just MAD… and I don’t buy that. I will die trying and fighting, which is more honorable to me. And in war, winning is everything. I therefore truly support John McCain by making sure that we win Iraq.
If there is a faint truthfulness in your MAD theory, then it will point us to the reality that we are still “not fully secured” as a nation and we need to do something immediately to ensure the full protection of America in every way. In such case, I support GC’s idea that we must have ‘war plan” for every potential conflict/threat around the world. On a minus side, that may be too costly and may give the idea that Castro is correct in his opinion of US being fascist and imperialist by showing too much dominance.
Other Points
As for the rest of your lectures, I say no more but thanks anyway. My use of the term Communism is not hyperbole. There’s nothing more I can do to exaggerate communism or its evil consequences. I remain in my belief [with some clarification] that:
Communism is [the end goal of] Socialism. Cue here. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catId=11&type=group. For me, Reagan’s meaning of communism is more precise: they are those who are reading Marx’s Communist Manifesto”.
I did not compare the two conflicts, I relate them; and my use of “communist” is just to draw the inconsistencies.
Russia as a society is still Communist? At least in psychological makeup of the people and leaders because it will take time before they fully “unlearn” communism (though they never actuall reached the goal of communism).
Democrats are [subtle lying] Communists. Socialists or what have you; It’s you who should know more…BO is a concrete example of such Democrat. It’s a windy explanation that deserves one whole diary. Suffice to say that Most communists (reading Marx) are inside the Democratic Party. Democratic Party’s principles fully fits the so-called New (International) Communism ideology.
McCarthy [was not witch-hunting because he] was Right with respect to the growing Communism in America in the second half of the 20th Century. AIM made several reports on this. I question your sincerity as a conservative/republican if you remain blinded by the MSM and continue to accuse McCarthy of communism.
[Yes, the Great President Reagan defeated Communism in the Cold War but the] Communist Movement did not die in early 1990s… it is still alive, is more tempting, and is growing more stronger every day. There are people around the world working for the integration of communismI. If the Republicans stop telling about communism today, then one day we will forget about Reagan’s heroism and legacy. Soon we will be like the Dems who welcomed the ideologues that Americans had fought for about half a century.
Despite McCain’s being right on every issue, there is a barrier to half of the youth, the “working class”, and the Dem’s labelled “poor”. Beside’s BO’s moving to the center, the promise of communistic idealism is still there… and these people are still entralled to BO, hoping he will change to his original position again.
And for me, the first 6 items are facts. “As I know them” means that elaborating the issues will be lengthy and is no longer related to this diary. It will be a disrespect already on the author. I know the erudites’ differentiation among data, facts, information, and knowledge. But don’t you know the truism that: Facts are Facts? Some facts need not require supporting facts. Your name is a fact and doesn’t require elaborative sub-facts to make it a fact, in fact!
Please forgive my stubbornness. And I’m still your friend, since I’m hoping that you’re really a conservative/republican and if you’re really voting for McCain, I’ll consider you as brother.
On the rest of your accusations, FINE!
Erratum.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Thursday, August 14th at 8:43AM EST (link)Replace “McCarthy of communism” by “McCarthy of witchhunting.”