I’ve often wondered just how tied to religion the Republican base is. When moral issues come up, it certainly seems to be a very high percentage of the makeup. One of the problems, however, is that our other argument is the Constitution. For instance, the possession and use of a naturally growing plant (apparently created by God) gets more and more strange the more one considers it. Where in the Constitution does it say that I can’t grow one of these plants *for any reason*? Or any plant that even resembles it. This, to the point of outlawing marijuana’s cousin, the hemp plant. Are we *that* scared of marijuana that we would outlaw anything that even looked like it? Apparently we are. Even as someone who doesn’t smoke anything of any kind, I find this beyond strange.
But it’s not just that. We seem to like to meddle, nationally, in the right to die, gay marriage, flag burning and things that Thomas Jefferson would say “neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg”. If Ted Kennedy were in incredible pain and wished to pull the plug a little early or if Ronald Reagan, in a moment of clarity, decided he didn’t want to go back to where he was, are we really good judges to say they shouldn’t do that? Is this not something between man and his maker? Do I need someone like Rick Santorum forcing me to live my life as he wishes? If Catholics, for instance, think that assisted suicide is evil, does that not, then, only apply to actual Catholics? What if Muslims come to power? Will I be forced to add a few dozen more illegal things to the long list of things I can’t do to myself?
Pondering out loud, I’m asking if this is a necessary part of conservatism or Republicanism? Would it cause a splintering of religious conservatives? Or would they hang in there and be okay with the “it’s unconstitutional” argument. I respect Republicans for trying to make a flag-burning amendment rather than simply trying to outlaw it, but if we were to outlaw flag burning, what is next? Not coincidentally, the fact that it is legal to burn a flag has all but completely destroyed the desire to burn them. Maybe there’s a message for us in there somewhere.
As a married person, I honestly don’t feel diminished if Bob and Steve get married. Politicians say my marriage is diminished, but I’m not feeling it. I don’t really care. Of course, some might say that homosexuals shouldn’t be exempt from the stresses and strains of marriage either. But it is it a national issue? Moreover, is it an *important* national issue, compared to the economic disaster we face?
Now, I can see how the federal government may have an interest in the trafficking of highly addictive drugs. I have seen these drugs take away the freedom of will of friends and acquaintances and it is a brutal affair. Certainly we can regulate the sale of these, without punishing the sad user further. We have seen that humans like to intoxicate themselves one way or another. If not marijuana, alcohol. If not alcohol, adrenaline. If not cocaine, huffing some chemical that is 100 times more dangerous.
One of the things that has annoyed me more than all of this, however, is “Click it or Ticket”. Aside from the annoying rhyme, seeing these signs and the associated taxpayer expensive every few miles. I have no idea why this bothers me so much, since I feel naked without my seatbelt, but in my fantasies, I have one of the many interesting weapons from Halo2 as I come upon one. Yes, it’s a good idea to wear a seatbelt, but why are we spending 100s of $millions to threaten and fine people?
The question becomes, if we really profess to believe in the Constitution, why do we get involved in these things at a national level? Is it possible to explain to those who do like these laws that it’s a state or local issue? Do we gain more voters than we lose? Or do we simply lose the base? These are interesting questions that would be interesting to poll. For instance “if the same interpretation of the Constitution that prevents ObamaCare also throws out all national, but not state or local, drug use laws, are you for this interpretation?” Are we capable of separating our moral lives from our legal lives? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Victoria Coates
Daniel Horowitz
Morality and the Law
Loren Heal (Diary) Tuesday, September 1st at 12:35AM EST (link)If I can untangle some of your basic problem, it isn’t religion per se that defines the base, it’s a certain world view.
In that world view, the ownership of a house in the suburbs, on a clean, quiet street in a settled neighborhood, is an unmitigated good. Included in that world is a sense of stability, of raising children not with the community’s direct assistance, but specifically without the community’s interference. On that street, one needn’t worry about gangs, drugs, graffiti, or the homeless, because that never happens there. Everyone goes to church on Sunday, and everyone knows right from wrong, except for a few quiet foibles. It’s a utopia, and like all utopias it is unreal.
What you want to do with that street depends on whether you value liberty or order more.
Libertarians would leave the street as it is, but allow government no role in preserving it, since once state of affairs is as good as another.
Conservatives would ask the government to enforce the conditions on that street.
Barack Obama hates that street.
You are asking two questions: 1) Should the government actively keep things the same on that street and 2) Can it. Or maybe those are reversed.
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Complicated Question Socrates
clowngirl (Diary) Tuesday, September 1st at 2:04AM EST (link)Socrates,
You’re comment spurs a couple of divergent associations for me:
1. With regard to graffiti – I heard ( I guess it was under Guiliani) they decided to crack down on graffiti so first they cleaned up all the cars but – of course the taggers were just going to start over again – but it takes three nights to paint a subway car. The first to prime them, the second to paint the outline, the 3rd to add color and details. So rather than guard the cars with cops – they left them out in the lot like sitting ducks. The taggers came & nobody prevented them from painting the cars, the first night, the second or the third, They were allowed to work on the cars totally undisturbed all night for three nights.
The morning after the 3rd night the cars were repainted.
Some of the taggers were in tears after investing three nights then seeing their artwork was never seen outside that yard.
Graffiti problem solved. (For the most part)
That, to me, is really smart government. No arbitrary punishment – no wasted energy – a thought out strategy on what would be most effective carried out with minimal effort.
2. With regard to the drug war – I don’t really agree with the idea that because marijuana is a natural substance it should therefore be legal but I do think that cracking down on drug crime raising other Constitutional issues with regard to the 4th ammendment, no knock warrants, etc. There have been cases of police officers planting drugs to fill quotas … what I’m getting at is that the illegality of drugs opens the door to abuse of power and corruption. I wonder if there might be a way to let natural consequences take effect (as in the graffiti example) and make that the focus more than use of the police force. (for example, phasing out the welfare state and therefore not enabling drug or alcohol use/abuse)
I’m not quite in favor of drug legalization but I do think it’s one of those issues that’s complicated.
And I got the questions wrong.
Loren Heal (Diary) Tuesday, September 1st at 4:34AM EST (link)This is a rich area for us, because it involves competing values.
I should have asked which aspects of life on that street should the government try to enforce, knowing as we do that the very act of enforcement will alter conditions on the street in ways we cannot predict ahead of time.
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But I would suggest...
john_ashman (Diary) Tuesday, September 1st at 10:27AM EST (link)That the neighborhoods are exclusively a local affair. And that the feds have been utterly inept at saving neighborhoods and, in fact, seem to only make things worse.
Remember, it is not government’s job to create a great society, it is government’s job to create the conditions under which a great society can create itself.
Socrates, thanks for that
ColdWarrior (Diary) Tuesday, September 1st at 1:56AM EST (link)Besides laying out the differences in philosophy between libertarians, conservatives and post-modern leftists, you also took me back to my hometown. I grew up in that world you described.
I want it for my kids.
Obama and the Debtocrats have, as that nice young stay-at-home mom told Arlen Specter at the town hall, awakened a sleeping giant, the good people of America. Now that they are awake, we need to channel as many of them as possible who are conservative into the Republican Party as precinct committeemen, following your footsteps.
Then we’ll have a chance at reestablishing and preserving that America to which we all yearn to return.
Thank you.
ColdWarrior
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