I believe Rep. Ron Paul is correct about the unconstitutionality of the debt-limit supercommittee, although I found his particular reasons for saying so a little hazy.
Normally, and quite naturally, a bill must be introduced by a member of the House or Senate for it to be taken under consideration by that chamber; the process must begin in one or the other chamber, by an action taken by a member of that chamber. The bill can then go through committee, go to the chamber floor, be debated, amended, voted on, and, if passed, then sent to the other chamber, where it can again be debated, amended, voted on, and if passed, then reconciled with the other chamber’s version, voted again by both chambers, and if they then both agree on the same version, then sent to the President for his/her signature or veto. But the bill must begin its life in one or the other of the two constitutionally mandated chambers.
But with this supercommittee, a bill will not be introduced into either the House chamber or the Senate chamber, but will entirely be a construct of the supercommittee. Both chambers will then be forced to vote on the legislation determined by the supercommittee. We will have legislation being voted on by both chambers, of which neither chamber is the author or orginator. And while neither chamber is the author of the bill, both chambers will have no choice but to vote on the bill, as is, with no amendments allowed. This supercommittee is not therefore providing the chambers a recommendation, it is handing out a decree: accept this bill, or enact pre-determined “triggers.”
What the debt limit extension bill created then was not a “supercommittee,” but a new “superchamber” of the Legislative branch. It has powers conferred on it that neither the House or Senate has. It can proscribe, prescribe, and constrain the options of the constitutionally mandated chambers; it can decree which of two legislative options the Legislative Branch is allowed to produce. Even in the act of doing nothing it can force the other two chambers to take a prescibed course of action.
In additon, the constitution mandates that all revenue bills must originate in the House. This committee, however, also has the power to “recommend” revenue increases. The House and Senate will then both be forced to vote on these revenue increases irrespective of what the other chamber has done. This is not how the constitution prescibes the process: the House is supposed to vote on and pass a bill relating to revenue increases, and only then can the Senate take up, vote on and amend such a bill. There is not a provision for another “superchamber” to force the introduction of revenue bills into the other two chambers simultaneously.
This supercommittee seems not only unconstitutional in spirit, but unconstitutional in fact. I’m surprised this hasn’t raised more alarms among conservatives. House Republicans pledged to site the constitutional authority for all legislation when they took power in January; I wonder what section of the Constitution was sited in the Boehner bill in order to justify the creation of this new extra-constitutional entity?
Victoria Coates
Daniel Horowitz
Yes, it's unconstitutional..
traversecityconservative (Diary) Thursday, August 4th at 11:28PM EST (link)It doesn’t represent the states accurately. There’s not equal population representation or geographical representation. And WE haven’t voted for any of these 12 people to do this. It’s ridiculous. The Rino sell outs for this bill (including Allen West) had better watch out come election time. We don’t have to agree with everything that they vote on but this vote was a BIGGIE and they screwed it up. In fact, the Republican party screwed up the whole negotiation process. Still true that Dems are evil and the Republican party is spineless.
i thought so too
dudette Friday, August 5th at 6:45AM EST (link)but what do we do about it? I have Schumer and Engel for my reps, might as well save my breath. there are SO MANY unconsitutional things going on, the misuse of executive orders, the czars not being vetted, blah blah, when is someone going to stand up to this little dictator?
The short answer is yes, it is Constitutional
Kyle-MI (Diary) Friday, August 5th at 9:58AM EST (link)The long answer is also yes. No matter what the super committee creates, it still will have to go through the legislative process. It might bypass some legislative committees and is not subject to the filibuster in the Senate, but those are all legislative rules, not laws and definitely not in the Constitution.
The House will still vote on it first satisfying the requirement that all budget bills originate in the House. There is no requirement that budget bills can only be written by House members. That would be ridiculous and unenforceable because many of the House members have staff who have helped write budget bills in the past. Also, in the past many Presidents have proposed budgets that the House takes up and modifies.
Mark Levin rejected the constitutionality argument of a caller
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, August 5th at 10:37PM EST (link)a few days ago.
I’m a laymen, but it seems to me that if something exists at the will of the House or Senate, and can be changed at will by those with the authority to delegate, then it would be constitutional.
But this has gone further, as the House, the Senate, and the President have bound each other. Perhaps that’s the out. The House votes to change the rules back, and then challenges any claim by the Senate or the President that it cannot do so.
Legislation written by a staffer
Joe Cor (Diary) Friday, August 5th at 12:12PM EST (link)must be introduced by a member of the House or Senate, not the staffer. Legislation proposed by the President must still be introduced by a House or Senate member.
Even if a House member technically introduces the legislation, he/she is being compelled by law to introduce a piece of legislation, as written. Legislation is being imposed on the House/Senate. Not only is filibuster now allowed, amendments as well are not allowed. The House/Senate is being forced by an outside body to take up legislation, not amend it, and only vote yes/no. Hardly seems like a normal legislative process to me.
Still not seeing any difference or unconstitutionality
Kyle-MI (Diary) Friday, August 5th at 5:33PM EST (link)The Constitution does not guarantee a right to filibuster.
It does not guarantee a right to amendment.
It is not the normal legislative process but that is up the rules established by both chambers. As long as the rules are within the boundaries of the Constitution, it is fair game.
Do you really think they can’t find anyone in the House to propose this bill, like, say one of the members of the super committee? It is hardly being forced by an outside body. It they have the majority of votes to pass the legislation, then it is ridiculous to argue that they are being compelled. If they don’t like it, they can vote against it, and it won’t pass.
You could pass a law
Joe Cor (Diary) Friday, August 5th at 8:58PM EST (link)forcing every town in America to buy at least one Chevy Volt. Even if you could find a person in every town to buy a Volt, it would still be a forced requirement. The law says the House and Senate must take up the recommendations of this committee. Even if some members would voluntarily introduce the recommendations without coercion, this is still an imposition, not a recommendation.
And let me quote from Article I, Section 7 of the US Constitution (more commonly known as the Best Deal We Could Get Under the Circumstances circa 1787):
“All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.”
Clearly, the Senate may propose or concur with amendments “as on other Bills.” The Senate is specifically authorized to offer amendments not only on House revenue bills, but all other bills. So even if a supercommittee revenue bill passes the House first, with someone who voluntarility introducing it into the House first (though it would be introduced whether or not someone was found to voluntarility do so), the Senate still has the constitutional authority to offer amendments. This authority is being denied under the supercommittee arrangement.