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	<title>Comments on: Democrat HC Townhalls &#8211; a chance to directly report the specific Democrat Talking Points and refute them&#8230; [Updated]</title>
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	<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/</link>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-275</guid>
		<description>also a good/quick reference: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=19319&quot;&gt;HTML version (click here)&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also a good/quick reference: <a href="http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=19319">HTML version (click here)</a></p>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-273</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-273</guid>
		<description>and I look forward to anyone/everyone to pile additional specifics lies they hear at any Townhall from anywhere across the country into this debate so we can directly refute them with the FACTS over the WH &quot;Planted Questions from the Fringe that supposedly represent us angry Mob folks&quot; distortions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and I look forward to anyone/everyone to pile additional specifics lies they hear at any Townhall from anywhere across the country into this debate so we can directly refute them with the FACTS over the WH &#8220;Planted Questions from the Fringe that supposedly represent us angry Mob folks&#8221; distortions.</p>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-274</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-274</guid>
		<description>and I look forward to anyone/everyone to pile additional specifics lies they hear at any Townhall from anywhere across the country into this debate so we can directly refute them with the FACTS over the WH &quot;Planted Questions from the Fringe that supposedly represent us angry Mob folks&quot; distortions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and I look forward to anyone/everyone to pile additional specifics lies they hear at any Townhall from anywhere across the country into this debate so we can directly refute them with the FACTS over the WH &#8220;Planted Questions from the Fringe that supposedly represent us angry Mob folks&#8221; distortions.</p>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-272</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-272</guid>
		<description>posted while in mid typing of thought... anyway.. to complete the thought....

The Bills from Democrats are purposely complex and often even VAGUE! One section will &quot;suggest&quot; one thing while another section contradicts or implies a correction/clarification. It will NOT and does NOT specifically say &quot;Abortions will be paid for under this plan.&quot; It DOES NOT SAY THAT ... BUT... when it is an allowed/qualified Health Care &quot;treatment&quot; it WILL BE PAID FOR by/from Tax dollars that are extorted from everyone in order to cover the &quot;Public Option&quot; many of those procedures will be paid for under/by!!!!! In that case, it really is SIMPLE in principle but purposefully COMPLEX under the Democrats&#039; plan in order to be able to MISLEAD far too many Americans that have no real clue how Government works.

Further, with so many not having a clue how government works.... They want to cram through a Bill... ANY BILL... it doesn&#039;t really matter because once their cronies who infect/infest every level/layer of Government positions in each and every Department of Govt. (as Liberals who believe in Govt. are the ones that fill all the Govt. jobs Democrats make available every time they INFLATE the size of Govt.) will then be the ones who put in place the RULES AND REGULATIONS to implement the Plan under the cover/backing of the Law passed. Then they allow/make it do whatever they want above and beyond any initial intent of the Program!

WE MUST EDUCATE THE COMPLETELY UNINFORMED AND OTHERWISE IGNORANT TO HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>posted while in mid typing of thought&#8230; anyway.. to complete the thought&#8230;.</p>
<p>The Bills from Democrats are purposely complex and often even VAGUE! One section will &#8220;suggest&#8221; one thing while another section contradicts or implies a correction/clarification. It will NOT and does NOT specifically say &#8220;Abortions will be paid for under this plan.&#8221; It DOES NOT SAY THAT &#8230; BUT&#8230; when it is an allowed/qualified Health Care &#8220;treatment&#8221; it WILL BE PAID FOR by/from Tax dollars that are extorted from everyone in order to cover the &#8220;Public Option&#8221; many of those procedures will be paid for under/by!!!!! In that case, it really is SIMPLE in principle but purposefully COMPLEX under the Democrats&#8217; plan in order to be able to MISLEAD far too many Americans that have no real clue how Government works.</p>
<p>Further, with so many not having a clue how government works&#8230;. They want to cram through a Bill&#8230; ANY BILL&#8230; it doesn&#8217;t really matter because once their cronies who infect/infest every level/layer of Government positions in each and every Department of Govt. (as Liberals who believe in Govt. are the ones that fill all the Govt. jobs Democrats make available every time they INFLATE the size of Govt.) will then be the ones who put in place the RULES AND REGULATIONS to implement the Plan under the cover/backing of the Law passed. Then they allow/make it do whatever they want above and beyond any initial intent of the Program!</p>
<p>WE MUST EDUCATE THE COMPLETELY UNINFORMED AND OTHERWISE IGNORANT TO HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS!!!</p>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-271</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-271</guid>
		<description>and it is up to all of us to correct them.

Obama, over and over and over again, pops up on soundbites talking about how in HIS HEALTH CARE PLAN ... blah, blah, blah.... yadda, yadda, yadda... &lt;b&gt;There is NO Obama HC plan in consideration! The only Bill submitted for consideration is HR3200 PERIOD!&lt;/b&gt; Oh sure, 3 Republican Senators have teamed up in a new Gang Of Six (we keep hearing about) to put together a Senate version for consideration -- another usual diversion technique, whereas they then put all the bad stuff back in later in RECONCILIATION COMMITTEE -- but there is absolutely, positively, NO PLAN FROM OBAMA it is all about WHAT IS ACTUALLY IN THE HR3200 BILL AND NOT OBAMA&#039;S DISHONEST ATTEMPTS TO DISTORT THAT!!!

As for that Gang Of Six.... Snowe is one of them, so we know exactly where this is heading. Yet another shuffling of the numbers to pretend it is more palatable - another NO REAL COMPROMISE - COMPROMISE!

We also have to remember to inform friends, family, neighbors, and/or total strangers how we tried to (actually) REFORM Health-Care back with Welfare Reform (as part of the Medicare reform needs) and Democrats, as usual, blocked/stopped ALL Free Market SOLUTIONS opting instead for their usual KILL REAL SOLUTIONS so they can lay in wait to pounce with a retread of their prior attempts to SOCIALIZED MEDICINE whether it is by that name or not! It&#039;s always the same -- It&#039;s not Card Check now, it&#039;s the same thing under a different name... It isn&#039;t Fairness Doctrine, it&#039;s the same thing under &quot;Localism&quot;... We&#039;ve seen this script from the Democrats time after time  BUT  there are so many that do not pay attention they see only dots and are unable to connect them without our help -- and we MUST help them to see what they always miss right under their noses!!!!

I&#039;ve gotta tell you my favorite Obama soundbite... it&#039;s the one where he says about HC (but it can be any issue with him) how he&#039;ll say blah, blah, blah (as the supposed opponents of his plan&#039;s perspective - read: Strawman) and then knocks it down with &quot;It&#039;s SIMPLY not true!&quot; ... And he can say it with a straight face because he&#039;s (in some sense) RIGHT! ... HOW??? Because it isn&#039;t SIMPLY true as the Bills are purposefully worded in such a complex yet convoluted fashion that they do NOT outright say</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and it is up to all of us to correct them.</p>
<p>Obama, over and over and over again, pops up on soundbites talking about how in HIS HEALTH CARE PLAN &#8230; blah, blah, blah&#8230;. yadda, yadda, yadda&#8230; <b>There is NO Obama HC plan in consideration! The only Bill submitted for consideration is HR3200 PERIOD!</b> Oh sure, 3 Republican Senators have teamed up in a new Gang Of Six (we keep hearing about) to put together a Senate version for consideration &#8212; another usual diversion technique, whereas they then put all the bad stuff back in later in RECONCILIATION COMMITTEE &#8212; but there is absolutely, positively, NO PLAN FROM OBAMA it is all about WHAT IS ACTUALLY IN THE HR3200 BILL AND NOT OBAMA&#8217;S DISHONEST ATTEMPTS TO DISTORT THAT!!!</p>
<p>As for that Gang Of Six&#8230;. Snowe is one of them, so we know exactly where this is heading. Yet another shuffling of the numbers to pretend it is more palatable &#8211; another NO REAL COMPROMISE &#8211; COMPROMISE!</p>
<p>We also have to remember to inform friends, family, neighbors, and/or total strangers how we tried to (actually) REFORM Health-Care back with Welfare Reform (as part of the Medicare reform needs) and Democrats, as usual, blocked/stopped ALL Free Market SOLUTIONS opting instead for their usual KILL REAL SOLUTIONS so they can lay in wait to pounce with a retread of their prior attempts to SOCIALIZED MEDICINE whether it is by that name or not! It&#8217;s always the same &#8212; It&#8217;s not Card Check now, it&#8217;s the same thing under a different name&#8230; It isn&#8217;t Fairness Doctrine, it&#8217;s the same thing under &#8220;Localism&#8221;&#8230; We&#8217;ve seen this script from the Democrats time after time  BUT  there are so many that do not pay attention they see only dots and are unable to connect them without our help &#8212; and we MUST help them to see what they always miss right under their noses!!!!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve gotta tell you my favorite Obama soundbite&#8230; it&#8217;s the one where he says about HC (but it can be any issue with him) how he&#8217;ll say blah, blah, blah (as the supposed opponents of his plan&#8217;s perspective &#8211; read: Strawman) and then knocks it down with &#8220;It&#8217;s SIMPLY not true!&#8221; &#8230; And he can say it with a straight face because he&#8217;s (in some sense) RIGHT! &#8230; HOW??? Because it isn&#8217;t SIMPLY true as the Bills are purposefully worded in such a complex yet convoluted fashion that they do NOT outright say</p>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-270</guid>
		<description>E.A.R. while not making as much sense (as you so eloquently pointed out A.R.E. does follow the life-cycle) either one leads much more to putting it into a slogan with E.A.R. as in lend me your ear, can be sloganized somehow perhaps by someone a tad more clever in doing those sorts of things. 

While my question is obviously unrealistic it does force the issues/points of some of the main protestations of the Bill and my hopes that folks will get it into the questions anywhere/everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E.A.R. while not making as much sense (as you so eloquently pointed out A.R.E. does follow the life-cycle) either one leads much more to putting it into a slogan with E.A.R. as in lend me your ear, can be sloganized somehow perhaps by someone a tad more clever in doing those sorts of things. </p>
<p>While my question is obviously unrealistic it does force the issues/points of some of the main protestations of the Bill and my hopes that folks will get it into the questions anywhere/everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: penguin2</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>penguin2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-269</guid>
		<description>Reading your additional comment, that sums it up.  I would rearrange the three to; Abortion, Rationing, Euthanasia, flows with the life cycle.  Also, we can make it be:  A.R.E.

This Healthcare bill represents not only the takeover of our health care, but the take over of our lives.  Totalitarian government.

JLenard, congratulations on the Highly Recommended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading your additional comment, that sums it up.  I would rearrange the three to; Abortion, Rationing, Euthanasia, flows with the life cycle.  Also, we can make it be:  A.R.E.</p>
<p>This Healthcare bill represents not only the takeover of our health care, but the take over of our lives.  Totalitarian government.</p>
<p>JLenard, congratulations on the Highly Recommended.</p>
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		<title>By: CincoSolas_del_Bronx</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator>CincoSolas_del_Bronx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-268</guid>
		<description>End of Life? It&#039;s not alive!

EVERYBODY knows that! They PROVED it!

Get real, man.



Thanks for the great post.
Double negative in title intended literally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>End of Life? It&#8217;s not alive!</p>
<p>EVERYBODY knows that! They PROVED it!</p>
<p>Get real, man.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great post.<br />
Double negative in title intended literally.</p>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-267</guid>
		<description>That one question about sums up the majority of the issues with the HR3200 boondoggle....

Abortion - is a legal and approved &quot;Care&quot; under the Bill and while NO direct funding is provided (the dodge they use in their non-Answers) anyone with a brain and uses it can easily/clearly see/understand that Abortions will therefore be Paid for with our Tax Dollars under the Universal Care system they are trying to force down our throats.

Euthanasia - This is the favorite planted question of Democrats as they can easily DENY IT and the carefully worded response is truthful because they purposefully ensure the question is asked in the fashion it is. NOWHERE in the Bill is Euthanasia addressed, of course!!! However, it effectively the same thing if you exclude certain treatments (one thing Dingell admitted to, see this Diary for details) from folks.

Rationing - providing a list, any list, of either ALLOWED or DISQUALIFIED for coverage treatments -- is rationing despite any of their carefully worded non-answers otherwise. Nowhere in the Bill, again, does it specifically mention &quot;rationing&quot; and they therefore try to FOOL (the easily duped Liberals/Democrats) with the BS they spew in response to this part of the Bill&#039;s issues/consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That one question about sums up the majority of the issues with the HR3200 boondoggle&#8230;.</p>
<p>Abortion &#8211; is a legal and approved &#8220;Care&#8221; under the Bill and while NO direct funding is provided (the dodge they use in their non-Answers) anyone with a brain and uses it can easily/clearly see/understand that Abortions will therefore be Paid for with our Tax Dollars under the Universal Care system they are trying to force down our throats.</p>
<p>Euthanasia &#8211; This is the favorite planted question of Democrats as they can easily DENY IT and the carefully worded response is truthful because they purposefully ensure the question is asked in the fashion it is. NOWHERE in the Bill is Euthanasia addressed, of course!!! However, it effectively the same thing if you exclude certain treatments (one thing Dingell admitted to, see this Diary for details) from folks.</p>
<p>Rationing &#8211; providing a list, any list, of either ALLOWED or DISQUALIFIED for coverage treatments &#8212; is rationing despite any of their carefully worded non-answers otherwise. Nowhere in the Bill, again, does it specifically mention &#8220;rationing&#8221; and they therefore try to FOOL (the easily duped Liberals/Democrats) with the BS they spew in response to this part of the Bill&#8217;s issues/consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: penguin2</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator>penguin2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-260</guid>
		<description>You sound like you had quite an experience.  Amazing how they are trying to hide what the bill really says.  Our Representative, Glenn Nye VA-02, has refused to hold a Townhall.  He is meeting with &quot;selected groups&quot; and by invitation only.  I don&#039;t think I&#039;ll appear on the invite list.

Let us know if you get famous and show up on TV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You sound like you had quite an experience.  Amazing how they are trying to hide what the bill really says.  Our Representative, Glenn Nye VA-02, has refused to hold a Townhall.  He is meeting with &#8220;selected groups&#8221; and by invitation only.  I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ll appear on the invite list.</p>
<p>Let us know if you get famous and show up on TV.</p>
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		<title>By: ColdWarrior</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>ColdWarrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-259</guid>
		<description>Here is a handy summary of what’s in the House version of Obamacare.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/8851473/The-Health-Care-BillWhats-In-It

Someone at Redstate.com took the time to verify that it’s accurate:

http://www.redstate.com/ljmiller96/2009/07/30/we-scare-because-we-care-an-obamascare-roundup/#comment-777

I’ve been sending this out to just about everyone I know in preparation for the Recess Rallies:

http://recessrally.com

Socialized medicine kills people.

Obamacare: Call 1-800-IT-KILLS

Thank you.

ColdWarrior</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a handy summary of what’s in the House version of Obamacare.</p>
<p>http://www.docstoc.com/docs/8851473/The-Health-Care-BillWhats-In-It</p>
<p>Someone at Redstate.com took the time to verify that it’s accurate:</p>
<p>http://www.redstate.com/ljmiller96/2009/07/30/we-scare-because-we-care-an-obamascare-roundup/#comment-777</p>
<p>I’ve been sending this out to just about everyone I know in preparation for the Recess Rallies:</p>
<p>http://recessrally.com</p>
<p>Socialized medicine kills people.</p>
<p>Obamacare: Call 1-800-IT-KILLS</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>ColdWarrior</p>
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		<title>By: Mike gamecock DeVine</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/08/07/refute-townhall-propagand/#comment-258</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike gamecock DeVine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/?p=478#comment-258</guid>
		<description>By citing specific provisions of the bills that are rotten.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By citing specific provisions of the bills that are rotten.</p>
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