Throwing Down the Gauntlet: House GOP Accepts Obama’s Empty Offer to Debate Budget Proposal


Boehner, Ryan, GOP Answer the Challenge from President "I Won" to Provide Alternatives to Spendtaculous Maximus

Just hours after the House Democratic leadership forced President Obama’s $3,600,000,000,000.00 budget for fiscal year 2010 through the House Budget Committee, the House GOP unveiled their alternative to the president’s astronomical spending bill (the GOP document can be seen here, courtesy of good friend and RS contributor Dan Spencer).

President Obama has pulled out all the stops in pushing his multi-trillion-dollar budget, which even USA Today has called “unprecedented in size [and] breathtaking in scope.” He has returned to campaign mode, mobilizing as much of his Obama/Organizing for America volunteer force as possible (a number which, it turns out, is significantly lower than that which was willing to help him get elected in the first place) and sending them door-to-door to evangelize for a document they haven’t read (and which will saddle them, their children, and their grandchildren with ridiculous amounts of debt). He has called for public input and participation in a TeleTownHall held today.

And, last night, in a move reminiscent of his actions during the actual campaign, Obama threw down the figurative gauntlet to detractors from his $3,600,000,000,000.00 spending plan, sayingTo a bunch of the critics out there, I’ve already said, show me your budget! I’m happy to have that debate.”

If this sounds familiar, it’s because he repeatedly made such bold declarations while on the campaign trail. Of course, he always made sure he was a safe distance from Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), his opponent for the office, when doing so, as he never had any intention of actually following through on his own tough-talking challenge.

As I wrote at the time:

If John McCain wants to meet me anywhere, anytime, to have a debate about our respective policies in Iraq, in Iran, in the Middle East or around the world, that is a conversation I am happy to have,” said Obama to an adoring audience of “reporters” in Waterstown, South Dakota. “I believe that there is no separation between John McCain and George Bush…and I think their policy has failed.”

Of course, the McCain campaign responded to this with an immediate call for ten town hall-style “debates” — a style and quantity unheard of in recent presidential campaigns, when most candidates want to be able to limit the damage that can occur as a result of going off-script at any time.

The Obama campaign responded with a North Korea-style offensive, refusing to participate (clearly, they too have heard Obama speak without a TelePrompTer — it is not pretty) but claiming that it was the McCain campaign that actually declined the opportunity.

In true Brave Sir Robin fashion, Obama didn’t stop there; just weeks after weaseling out of the opportunity to make good on his challenge to debate McCain “anywhere, any time,” he repeated the challenge he had no intention of living up to, saying at a Missouri campaign stop, “I’m ready to duel John McCain on taxes right here, quick draw.”

There was a time in our country’s history where opponents who had a genuine beef with each other were not only unafraid to debate the issue (see Lincoln-Douglass), but were willing to actually do battle over it (see Sumner-Brooks). Heck, we’ve even had a sitting Vice President kill a former Treasury Secretary in a duel!

How fortunate it is for President Obama that he lives in an age in which the virtue of manhood as once understood and revered has been utterly depleted; an age in which we not only have nonviolent disagreements (which are largely — and sometimes unfortunately — governed by the rules of comity), but where out-and-out challenges like those he repeatedly made to McCain during the campaign, and like that he made to the House GOP last night (during what is, for all intents and purposes, simply an “extended campaign”), are treated as being a sign of all the toughness a Democratic president needs, even when they are nought but rhetorical devices he has no intention whatsoever of backing up with actual action.

However, should President Obama decide to actually live up to his own words and engage on the topic of his budget and sensible alternatives, the House GOP is waiting in the wings to “have that debate” the chief executive claims to be “ready” for. As Rep. John Boehner said in a press conference this morning:

Two nights ago, the president said, “We haven’t seen a budget yet out of the Republicans.”

Well, that’s not true, because here it is, Mr. President

The video is below:

The GOP has proposed their alternative to President Obama’s multi-trillion-dollar spending plan. The question that must now be answered is this: Will the president live up to his challenge and promise to debate those with alternative budgetary proposals? Or will he remain in smug “I won” mode as he flees the field to escape the challenge put forward by those who won’t take his tough but empty talk lying down?

I’m pretty sure what the answer is, though I’d like to hope that I’m wrong.


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sheba Thursday, March 26th at 2:58PM EST (link)

I’m not sure how to react yet. It will hopefully be more clear when numbers come out. That huge tax cut sounds great to my personal budget, but it seems like such a large change all at once to be absorbed. I’m curious to see where they will find so much to cut out to make up for all the lost revenue. (not that there isn’t tons of waste in there, but you gotta actually make it happen). Anyways, just curious to see what others have to say…..

 

This isn't a budget!

LiberalInterloper Thursday, March 26th at 3:05PM EST (link)

Is this the best you’ve got. The only solid number is a surprise a massive tax cut for the wealthy and a smaller cut for everyone else. There’s no hard numbers on spending cuts. There’s no numbers on the projected deficit. There’s nothing to address the ballooning costs of health care.

Quite right, LiberalInterloper: it *does* make your guy look bad.

Moe Lane (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 3:21PM EST (link)

Please explain how,

LiberalInterloper Thursday, March 26th at 3:33PM EST (link)

President Obama has offered an actual budget that includes both revenue and spending. The house republican leadership continues to offer comments from the peanut gallery rather than making any proposal of substance.

Bush’s huge tax cuts for the wealthy sure don’t seam to have done much for the economy, but they did manage to balloon the deficit. I look forward to the debate about why this proposal is so much better this time around.

Oh, THIS is RICH

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 3:43PM EST (link)

“Bush’s huge tax cuts for the wealthy sure don’t seam (sic) to have done much for the economy, but they did manage to balloon the deficit.”

First of all, Bush’s tax cuts did not balloon the deficit. They actually increased total revenue. Any cursory examination of the data shows that, Try it.

Next – Dear Lord in Heaven, did an Obama supporter actually say what I just read? “Balloon the deficit”? As opposed to Obama’s “nuclear detonation of the deficit” or a “deficit which, mathematically, will bankrupt the country”?

Please do not insult our intelligence by pretending that you do now, or ever have, given a crap about budget deficits.

Here's a cursory examination for you

LiberalInterloper Thursday, March 26th at 4:00PM EST (link)

Budget deficits ballooned under Reagan and his years ended in a financial sector collapse and a recession. Deficits declined under Clinton and his term ended with a 1 quarter contraction.

Bush policies led to increased deficits and once again a financial sector collapse. Sure revenue temporarily rose under Bush but those gains were primarily in the financial services and health care sectors. The financial services gains have now evaporated and health care “gains” means health care is now dramatically more expensive.

From the chart it appears republicans only care about deficits when they are out of power.

I also appreciate your sighting “facts” with out ever actually sighting the fact.

It doesn't look like my inline image worked

LiberalInterloper Thursday, March 26th at 4:02PM EST (link)

The link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USDebt.png

 

Deficits 101

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 4:12PM EST (link)

OK, I am typing real slow. Keep up.

Budget defecits increased during the Reagan years because our defense capabilities were turned to rubble under Carter. The result of Reagan’s buildup was the end of the Cold War. Send the thank-you card to the Reagan Library.

Deficits decreased under Clinton because Republicans took over the House and Senate in 1994.

Deficits increased under Bush because he was fighting a couple of wars – remember? Clinton’s view of terrorism as a minor law enforcement problem was pretty inexpensive, I must admit.

Take another look at your data, and tell me how things were going before the Democrats took over in 2006. That’s right – you may be surprised to learn that you guys have actually been in charge for two years.

Again, I am looking for a little evidence that you libs have ever been concerned about deficits. Wait – we have very recent and compelling evidence that you are not…Obama’s budget.

And I was just going to suggest the interloper

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 4:20PM EST (link)

just compare his debt line with the party in control of congress at the time. It’s more telling since it’s congress that’s in charge of the purse strings.

You’re is better.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
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I appreciate your condesention

LiberalInterloper Thursday, March 26th at 4:43PM EST (link)

I hope you use that when you try to convince independents that republican solutions for the economy make any sense.

The soviet union collapsed because they spent massively on the military and ran up huge deficits, while enduring widespread unemployment. The US was spared that fate because we have a much stronger economy, yes on the whole free markets run better than centralized ones.

Increased military spending would have been better paired with a tax increase to support the effort rather than a tax cut, a financial crisis, and a recession.

But to say we “won” the cold war when we now have Putin in charge of the Russian nuclear arsenal and fed by our dependence on oil overstates the gains by a long shot.

Like wise we “won” the Iraq war and now have an Iraqi government strongly allied with Iran. The soldiers did their job, but the strategists in the whitehouse didn’t do theirs. In the meanwhile Bin Ladin is still free.

The deficit went down under Clinton because he increased taxes in 1993 using budget reconciliation without a single republican vote. This was followed by 8 years of job growth in spite of republican predictions that the end of the world was coming.

Democratic majorities in congress from 2006 on where meaningless as republicans simply filibustered every democratic proposal as seen by the 100 % increase in filibusters during that period.

President Obama inherited a huge structural deficit, a crumbling infrastructure, a woeful education system, two wars, and a global financial collapse in a scale not scene in generations. The fact that his deficits decline, during his term rather than increase shows a real concern for putting this country on sound economic footing.

In any case I’m out. This is your site so you can have the last word.

I’ll close by saying that I was really hopeful yesterday when the house republicans said they would release their budget today. But instead we just get more talking points and no substance.

So that's what people think in bizarro world

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:08PM EST (link)

Got it. Whatever gets you through the night. I won’t bother responding to your alternate universe because I am fresh out of tinfoil, but I will make a few statements and ask a few questions:

1) Obama inherited his current situation from a Democrat House and Senate. Just learn to live with that fact. George Bush didn’t cause your toast to burn this morning, and the Democrat majorities blocked any meaningful reforms for the past two years. Behold the results. And didn’t Obama *want* the job he is so busy whining about?

2) You guys won a tremendous, earth shattering, all-time world class victory in 2008. Why are you so worried about what Republicans think? I mean, the country’s all yours now – you don’t need a single vote from us. You really should be more confident. Buck up, little buckaroo.

3) And last but not least – assuming for the sake of argument that every penny of every budget deficit there has ever been is solely the fault of Republicans:

If little Johnny jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you jump off too?

Thanks for reassuring me that Republicans are doing the right thing. Have a nice night.

I love how liberals look at history

robmikpet (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 6:17PM EST (link)

They define tendentious reasoning. Anything good happens when a Republican is in office THERE ARE ALWAYS OTHER reasons why this happened. Something good when the Dems were in office ALWAYS BECAUSE OF THE DEMS.

The information they leave out would fill the Grand Canyon. Clinton raised taxes and THAT ALONE cause the budget deficit to drop. No Republican landslide in ’94, did I dream it?

It really is an alternate universe

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 6:30PM EST (link)

That’s why W is relying on historians not yet born to determine his legacy – liberals can’t be trusted for an honest analysis of what happened yesterday.

 
 
 

Wait a second

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:56PM EST (link)

I missed this at first.

“The fact that his deficits decline, during his term rather than increase shows a real concern for putting this country on sound economic footing.”

Did he really say that? Is Timothy Leary posting? Or worse, do these people really believe this?

 

Your views on the Soviet Union's collapse are...

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 6:22AM EST (link)

interesting. But wrong, or rather they are leaving out a great deal.

You did mention that the USSR collapsed partly due to high unemployment. But did you stop to think that the unemployement was so high because the government was trying to control the economy? The USSR was probably richer than we are in naturual resources (or close to us of they aren’t). They SHOULD have been able to outspend us and out build us and outman us militarily. But they couldn’t. It was primarily due to the fact that state run economies can’t provide the correct goods and services for their people (or their militaries for that metter). They always distort markets which leads to shortages, waste, etc.

As for winning the cold war…. are you for real? Haven’t you noticed that the USSR collapsed? Haven’t you noticed that we now have dozens of FREE countries who are allies with us instead of being part of the USSR and sworn enemies? Did you learn your view in school or did you come up with this on your own?

And one more note…. the deficit went down under Clinton because
1. We had a huge boom in the economy built on a false belief that anything related to the internet was golden. Huge amounts of economic activity occured and people made (and paid taxes on) fortunes in the internet bubble. This belief collapsed at the end of Clinton’s term and would have lead to economic conditions similar to what we have now if Bush hadn’t cut taxes.

2. A Republican majority swept into congress at Clinton’s first midterm and FORCED Clinton to do things like welfare reform to get the budget under control.

As for the “inherited a huge structural deficit” line. That’s PURE BS. He spent more money in his first 2 months than Bush did in YEARS and he’s going to continue spending at a ever increasing rate.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots

 
 

Reagan Budget Deficits were Caused By Congress, Not Him!

reddog53 (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 9:32PM EST (link)

Were largely caused by the Democratically controlled Congress (Tip O’Neill) which increased spending by 41% when revenues increased by about 27%. (See National Review, “The Reagan Years”).

Can we once and for all end the charade of calling the budget by the President’s term rather than the Congress? Congress makes the appropriations based on a request from the Executive Branch. Congress levies the taxes that develop the revenue. The President loses control of the process when he submits the budget after the State of the Union address.

“Reagan Deficits” were caused by Congress declaring “This budget is dead on arrival” and passing their own massively altered plan.

The Clinton Surpluses were delivered by the Gingrich led Congress which eliminated the annual budget shortfalls (“the deficit”) in about 3 years instead of the 7-9 years promised by President Clinton.

 
 
 
 

Sure! It's scaring you enough...

Moe Lane (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 4:47PM EST (link)

…to get you to try to pushback.

I’m sure that you hate trying to have to do it while pretending your guy is anywhere near fiscally responsible, but that’s not really our problem, is it?

Moe Lane

PS: Obama is going for a broader state-secrets privilege, by the way. Just in case you were busy trying to tell yourself that he hadn’t betrayed you on that front, either.

What the hell is condesention?

redware Thursday, March 26th at 5:02PM EST (link)

Is it a mixture of scorn and water vapor?

It is that exactly

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:10PM EST (link)

And is otherwise known as “The Democrat Budget of 2009″. Scorn and water vapor.

 
 

Oh my

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:54PM EST (link)

Looks like Bush wasn’t that far off base after all.

My favorite comment from Hot Air:

Communist mentors
Marxist college pals
Unrepentant terrorist colleagues
Indicted Chicago enablers
Multiple anti-American “spiritual mentors”
Twenty-year membership in racially divisive church

How could we have known it would go so bad so fast?

 
 
 
 

Free education

sconklin (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 4:49PM EST (link)

I am fascinated by those who think the recent economic down turn and deficit is the results of tax breaks. I am going to give you some sound knowledge you can take over to Kos and Huffpo and share with your friends and actually sound really smart

Government Spending is reason for the deficit and the reason we are broke. Nothing more, nothing less

Actually

LiberalInterloper Thursday, March 26th at 4:57PM EST (link)

deficit is the difference between spending and revenue. I’m surprised you didn’t realize that.

You dont say

sconklin (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:40PM EST (link)

I guess we should probably spend less than our revenue then……shouldnt we?

No WAY

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 6:28PM EST (link)

That would mean that they ARE serious about the deficit.

 
 
 
 

I'd respond, but...

JLenardDetroit (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 1:48AM EST (link)

I can’t get my eyes to un-roll from the back of my head from when I read your comment

The “general concept” of a strategy that actually has succeeded at some point in history (opposed to his preferred TAX, SPEND, BACKRUPT the country method, that has Failed each and every time a nation takes it to its fullest as the ObamaBinBiden bunch will) just isn’t within his grasp!

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(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (message) (Warning: Children Will Die!!)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
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Joke

Thomas_Hauber Thursday, March 26th at 3:35PM EST (link)

Their “budget” is a joke. I mean has anyone looked at what they put out?

Come on guys, you cannot put out a campaign brochure and call it a budget!

There are enough smart Republicans out there, why couldn’t they use some of them and come up with a serious alternative budget?

Nah

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 3:38PM EST (link)

We’d rather play your game and let you squirm for a few years actually trying to govern.

Nah

Thomas_Hauber Thursday, March 26th at 4:25PM EST (link)

I watched the president’s news conference and heard him make the comment about their not being an alternative budget. I thought to myself, great here is a challenge the Republicans should take up.

Then today I see the headline and hoped that they put forth a serious effort. They didn’t.

Do they not realize how unserious they look when they put so little effort into their budget plan?

I have been a lifelong republican and frankly some of the actions I have seen being done in the past few years have made me cringe. This is one of them.

Assuming you are a Republican

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 4:40PM EST (link)

You shouldn’t worry about Democrats actually having to make decisions and reaping the consequences of their actions now, should you?

Remember – “they won”. The focus needs to be exactly where it is – on THEM.

Ummmmm

sheba Thursday, March 26th at 5:03PM EST (link)

We all have to live in this country and deal with the results of this whatever they be. We can’t just be all “well if the country goes down the toilet they’ll blame the democrats. haha!” The end result is still the country in the toilet!!! Anyways, I’m hoping that so far this is just a preview and there is a serious workable plan with details coming soon….

Yes we do, don't we?

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:11PM EST (link)

And we will have an opportunity to fix it in 2010. In the meantime, I am not interested in going along with this little socialist movement. Are you?

 

No, no, no, no, no

nivlem (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 1:11AM EST (link)

We already know what their plan is, and we say NO!! And shortly, we will
say “NO” loudly.
We see the preview and their “workable” plan. We know if we do not act
now, it will be to late.
The details are here, and we reject them. Waiting will put this country in the toilet. We will change the results by acting, not by waiting.

 
 
 

Your missing the point

Thomas_Hauber Thursday, March 26th at 5:13PM EST (link)

If they put out a shoddy product, no one will take them seriously. Not the MSM (which of course I expect), but more importantly the electorate won’t take them seriously. Voters want to see leadership and ideas, not this half a$$ed campaign brochure.

You watch they will get next to zero coverage on their alternative. And whose fault will that be, their own because they put out a poor competing product.

Hey, we lost - remember?

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:16PM EST (link)

The competition is over. What are you so bent out of shape about?

Not bent out of shape

Thomas_Hauber Thursday, March 26th at 5:20PM EST (link)

I am not bent out of shape, but I am irritated. To me it is obvious what needs to be done, but the Republican leadership appears as tone deaf as usual.

Oh, Thomas, were you under the impresson that the MSM

janis (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:41PM EST (link)

would have covered the R version of a budget in any event? It could be the greatest, most innovative budget of a budget since money was invented and they still wouldn’t give it any attention. Matter of fact, if it were THAT great, they would bury it as deeply as it could go and then throw some fresh cement on top of it to be sure.

 

Do you not understand?

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 5:41PM EST (link)

That Republicans are not in charge of anything? And that the only way anyone would pay attention is if they screwed up? Exactly what do you propose – putting forth a budget that actually addresses, say, entitlements, tort reform and budget cuts?

My memory is not that short. Been there, done that, got eviscerated.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

It's as substantive

red4ever (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 4:30PM EST (link)

as anything Obama has offered. Everything he offers is idea first, specifics later (much later). His budget is based on completely unrealistic expectations of what the economy will do.

This is what a budget is supposed to be. Spending fit into projected revenue, not projected revenue tarted up to meet wishful spending.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
Dante

 

There will be no debate

bk (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 4:45PM EST (link)

Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and their minions (which includes the MSM) will run around saying some variation/combination of:
- “There is nothing to debate since the Republicans haven’t offered a single idea to debate. Not even one. They are the party of ‘no’.”
- “The only so-called ‘idea’ the Republicans have offered is just more of the same old Bushonomics that got us into this mess to begin with. We had that debate before the American people last November.”

Maybe some public debate at least

sheba Thursday, March 26th at 5:08PM EST (link)

It seems that this budget proposal (or the prospect of one) has gotten a good amount of airtime so far. If a more detailed version complete with more numbers and analysis could be released, I think it could at least spark some prominent public debate. With the economy as it is people seem to be really paying attention this time around. Congress listens to the court of public opinion if only to save their own skin

You're right

Thomas_Hauber Thursday, March 26th at 5:14PM EST (link)

But will they do the WORK?

 

What is that "bird singing" I hear in the background

nivlem (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 1:19AM EST (link)

Get real……the debate has already begun…..people are paying attention because they don’t have jobs or their businesses are being taxed to death….
the deficit has ballooned beyond comprehension and is killing our children
and grandchildren’s future while our President is yuking it up on Leno and
laughing while he is shredding our Constitution.
let’s get real and see the daylight….this is reality not “hope”, and most of us are living it…

 
 

IMHO, bk has a point.

Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 1:30AM EST (link)

It’s really a debate for the sake of having a debate whether or not there is a dire need for a debate as if there’s still such a thing as a statesman-like debate in a Democrat-run Washington.

The Rs and Cs are just fooling themselves. Obama and the Ds only need at least 3-6 RINO votes to finish any debate.

 
 

"Assuming you're a Republican"

syd Thursday, March 26th at 7:14PM EST (link)

Looks like the Obamatons & Mobys (sorry, “lifelong Republicans”) are out in force again. Pathetic.

They always show up when the Obama campaign is worried

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 10:31PM EST (link)

Someone took a look at the alternative budget (which is more detailed than the trolls and mobys claim) got nervous and activated the nutroots. They’ll be all over us for a few days.

God help us if Obambi’s approval rating drops below 50 in Rasmussen.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

 
 

The Detractors Are Correct...in one sense

youthgrunt (Diary) Thursday, March 26th at 10:29PM EST (link)

that the “budget” is not a budget. It is a priority and framework. But here is what is not acknowledged: the modern federal budget requires a huge bureaucracy in both the Executive branch and in the Legislative branch to generate. Right now, the Republicans control neither of them. It is fiscally unrealistic to create a full budget–particularly when you know that it will not see the light of day and will only be used by your party to make a point. Anyone want to spend a couple million dollars on that?

That is just one of the problems with our runaway federal government.

Of course, I would like to see a 5 page budget that looked something like:

Military-Army $x
Military-Navy $y
….
NPR $0
National Endowment of the Arts $0
Education Department $0

 

What’s wrong with saying the Republican budget could have been much better? Do you fear discussion?

Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 9:01AM EST (link)

I have been here long enough that you folks know I am not some troll or person who opines without thinking first. However, this budget proposal is good start- that is all. Witness that when people such as Laura Ingraham start to say the Republican budget proposal is weak- you have to listen.

What needs to be done is continuing the detail associated with our proposal. I understand that reviewing this budget is a monumental task and Obama now has an army to perform his handiwork. However, all our resources should be put against providing more details. Throwing out big ideas such as tax cuts instead of tax increases and general philosophy is a commencement point, not a complete proposal.

We should have the budget debate with Mr. Obama and force this issue. But he knows that would take time and shine the light on his ignominious and almost unconscionable proposal- especially on these hard times. Mr. Obama will ultimately not have this debate and therefore win the will or backing of an informed American public. This type of spending and posture is doomed to miserable economic failure. In following, we should make Obama point to an example where this approach has been tried and succeeded; there are none and the sooner our public understands that, the better.

You will not find a bigger proponent of the idea that people such as Paul Ryan represent our future. But if we are unable to consider criticism and determine if it has merits (upstream, wandering, contra intellectual trolls excluded) we will never return to a majority. This country was founded on principals that included tolerance and respect for dissent. What made our founders successful was their ability to focus on a core set of principals and put aside their disagreement to pursue them- no matter the cost.

Republicans, on the other hand, have acted as a collection of groups with parochial interests on which they focus without respect for grander considerations. That has been proven a fleeting coalition, not a movement. That posture failed to recognize the more holistic principals which represent our core values and ultimately provide cohesion. Those basic principals are more appealing, recognizable, relevant and instructive to the public than individual issues which are used to divide us, confuse and obfuscate citizens about our beliefs.

The comprehensive embracement of all our values and accompanying idea that some sacrifice needs to be considered by all will help us achieve future success as a party. That does not mean we become “more like them” as some suggest. It simply means we become “more like us’- a group identified by steadfast fealty to the Constitution, capitalistic economic principals, respect for family values and smaller government that serves the people, not one that dictates and confiscates their livelihood. This, my friends is the key to success. Without such basic thoughts and pursuits we are destined to live a life in the wilderness.

Sorry to be so prolix.

“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson

I don't think there is a reason

youthgrunt (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 9:15AM EST (link)

not to ask that the Republicans do a better job with a counter-proposal, though I don’t know that a full budget is realistic or useful. I guess what I think they should propose is a high level budget with real numbers by broad category.

It starts with a successive strategy youthgrunt

Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 9:32AM EST (link)

Republicans have said this will be followed next week by additional details. But those hign level details of which you speak, and perhaps they speak, needed to accompany this original document.

I would therefore have to guess the modus operandi was expediency, not completeness of thought. That, in my opinion, is a flawed approach. It gives the impression that saying something, albeit incomplete, was preferred to having a comprehensive starting point with more detail- a little later. So once again in the rush to show competency we substituted with brevity. That leads to the incorrect impression we are not well prepared or familiar with the issues. I suspect this is a byproduct of obedience to news cycles, especially weekend network tête-à-têtes.

I understand the time criticality, but sometimes waiting to be better prepared and discuss details helps display unquestionable competency.

“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson

 

It starts with a successive strategy youthgrunt

Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 9:32AM EST (link)

Republicans have said this will be followed next week by additional details. But those hign level details of which you speak, and perhaps they speak, needed to accompany this original document.

I would therefore have to guess the modus operandi was expediency, not completeness of thought. That, in my opinion, is a flawed approach. It gives the impression that saying something, albeit incomplete, was preferred to having a comprehensive starting point with more detail- a little later. So once again in the rush to show competency we substituted with brevity. That leads to the incorrect impression we are not well prepared or familiar with the issues. I suspect this is a byproduct of obedience to news cycles, especially weekend network tête-à-têtes.

I understand the time criticality, but sometimes waiting to be better prepared and discuss details helps display unquestionable competency.

“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson

Agreed

youthgrunt (Diary) Friday, March 27th at 10:55AM EST (link)

I don’t think this was a BAD thing to do. I’m not even sure that putting this out before more specific numbers is ok. But if it is presented as a “budget”, it falls flat and harms your credibility.

This document is equivalent to the talking points that Obama has been giving regarding his “budget priorities”. That is a good place to start.

We SHOULD have a discussion if our budget should control if “only clean energy is profitable” or if we should try to help our economy by promoting ALL forms of energy. That would be a good public debate which the Republican document puts a focus on. Quite frankly that is the level that public debate CAN happen on the budget.