In terms of your arguments. You have included many false statements. I definitely agree that we should not reward behavior we don’t want. But, our current incentive structure does exactly this.

Like it or not, your poor, you want medical care, committing a crime is a viable option, especially if you have a record. I talk to prisoners everyday, they have not reason to lie to me, they’re responses are confidential. I’m like, “why the hell did you do this, break a window and get busted for small amount/”. They’re like, “I needed bout six months, had to have a some work done on my mouth, summer job does start for a while so I got no place to be. Jails ok, meals, lifting weights, chillin, drugs are cheaper, and connections that sometimes pay-off on the outside”.

Yeah, our prisons are defacto welfare/criminal training programs. They sound good but don’t function.

In terms of most doctors offices, they love government programs. Its a guaranteed pay-out and they know how to game the system. You might be thinking of hospitals, who become ER facilities, and whose administration is relatively antagonistic towards g-programs. But, the real opposition, for obvious reasons, is the insurance and medical rep industry. Both thrive off private relations and are damaged by public funds.

And yes, the government needs to make people get check ups. You, nor do I, have the right to walk around like a disease spreading machine. Yes, as population size grows this became a national security issue. If the government can incarcerate, conduct domain acquisition, and draft warriors, they can administer some pills and shots.

What, you think when peeps join the military they don’t get the works. Government knows, the quickest way to lose a war is illness.

2. It’s government I worry about pocketing money. Talk to somebody who operates a doctor’s office. Many would take $.60 on the dollar if the person would pay cash instead of medicare/medicaid.

3. You’re talking about required medical visits? Are we cattle? Are we going to have required appointments yearly? Monthly? Weekly? Whenever the SS notices someone with a cold? What’s the sentence for missing a visit?

Also, I COMPLETELY disagree with you on the role of government. They are supposed to protect and possibly provide infrastructure to large populations, not control them.

4. If there is an ebola outbreak somewhere in the U.S., do you think the government would sit idly by? “Well, you voted down universal healthcare. You can all just get ebola and die as far as we’re concerned.”

5. I’m not saying, “Let’s let anyone who has made a mistake die.” I’m saying, if I fell on hard times and had to move home, I would pay rent. If I couldn’t afford rent, I would pay it back when I could in any way I could. Why are we giving free room and board to people who haven’t fallen on hard times but have thrust hard times on to others? Why shouldn’t prisoners make their own way?

Operant conditioning says that when you reward a behavior, that behavior is more likely to occur in the future. I don’t think violent people need coddling.

2. Are you not aware that we already pay for their health care? These are cost which are already being transferred to the public. Its not a matter of whether we are going to pay for health care for the poor. We already do. How would you like to pay? Your story about your friend is laughable because you are making up numbers. Find me an example of hospitals legally pocketing 22,000 in administrative cost.

The pdf I provided covers payments made to the hospital, so it is an accurate reflection of what is spent. What you and I pay for

3. Yes, people are inconsiderate and responsible. That is a fundamental aspect of my argument and government can’t make them considerate. So, do want to get a cold or not? Medicine can prevent a cold, but not make people responsible. The role of government is to govern and control large populations. It can do some things and it can not do others.

4. Doctors administer medicine. Disease goes away. Person does not spread disease to others.
Really dude, you don’t get it.

5. Yeah! Jails are great! Thats exactly what I am saying. And we should provide universal TV!

Do you really not understand how basic governmental regulations and services are organized?

Jail has free doctor
poor people poor
doctor cost money
poor people commit crime to get free doctor.

Taking doctors out of the jail is not an option. Nor is taking away TV’s. Because criminals are angry violent people and if you piss them off and treat them like shit then they will start breaking shit and killing each other. Now your paying to put them 6 feet under. That cost more than doctors and TV. Politics is about the lesser of two evils, not an ideal society. You leave with 302 million other people, its not going to be ideal.

2. This is possible, I don’t know the actual figures. Irregardless, universal healthcare transfers the responsibility for the debt from the one receiving services to their neighbors who don’t necessarily gain from those services (by force, I might add.) One of my former roommates broke his jaw in college and didn’t have insurance. The emergency room fixed him up on the taxpayer’s dime (might have been the hospital’s, I don’t remember.) HOWEVER, his estate is responsible for the $32,000 he was unable to pay. We may have given him a loan, but his estate will pay it back in the end, unlike universal healthcare which would have bargained the price down to $10,000 and pocketed $22,000 somewhere in the bureaucracy.

3. I think most people are just inconsiderate. However, people can go to minute clinics if it really is something communicable that is easy to fix – oftentimes for about the price of a co-pay.

4. I don’t understand how universal healthcare will alleviate this national emergency. People will get treated? People will get treated anyway, especially in the case of a national emergency. I don’t think someone would be denied access to a medical facility if they had been exposed to anthrax…

5. If jails are so nice and the healthcare so good that people would give up all their rights and privileges for months at a time to sit in them, we need to reexamine the facilities, not the healthcare system. Should we subsidize cable TV because prison has cable TV? No, we should take away cable TV from the prisons. If the prisoners aren’t as responsible for the costs of healthcare in prison as they are outside, then that is an oversight that should be corrected.

The cigarette tax is just a way for liberals to tax something most people don’t like to the detriment of those that do like it. Alcohol seems evil, so we have higher taxes on that as well. Hey, at least these taxes equally impact those who pay income tax and those who don’t.

Second, it will save us money. 32 billion over a few years is cheap. Florida spends 4.4 billion a year on Emergency Room visits, which is where uninsured children end up. The cost are extreme. Getting tonsils taken out is over 4 g’s alone. The majority of E visits are white women, (pregnancy), and 58% of hospital visits are to the E room. We have socialized medicine a long time ago, folks, and in the most expensive and crude way.

This is for anyone who wants to check out the cost.
http://www.floridahealthfinder.gov/researchers/documents/Emergency%20Department%20Utilization%20Report%202006.pdf

Third, our disorganized health system screws us all. I’m tired of getting a cold because someone else can’t get basic meds. Trust me, its happened to you more than you know. I served tables for years and on any given shift people are serving food who are sick. Then you get sick. Im tired of paying for some expensive treatment for something that could have been prevented with a simpler procedure at an earlier date or meds.

Fourth, this is a national security issue. If you think terrorist have not considered spreading disease as a means to disrupt economic activity, kill millions, and create a general sense of fear then you are a more optimistic person than I. Disease spread is extremely effective because the terrorizing takes on a life of its own. People become reluctant to leave their houses. Large sections of the population become infected quickly. Knowledge of the attack is slow to emerge as the uninsured are not regularly seeking healthcare. The damage a well placed disease to life and economic activity could make 32 billion look like a drop in the bucket. Our rapidly increasing transportation capabilities present challenges as we come in contact with objects that originated far away from us. This a reality that can not be ignored.

Fifth, we build jails based upon literacy scores in elementary school. Can’t read, go to jail. Poor health, can’t learn. I’m tired of paying so much money to house someone who does nothing. You know that poor people will vandalize property just to get a couple months to get illness dealt with, usually dental. So, the way we are doing know means someone’s property loses value, we pay for someone to go to jail and have a public defender, and then give them healthcare services. We spend a lot of money expect people to be responsible. When they don’t, we foot the bill eventually. Out of 302 million people , why would we not assume that people would act irresponsibly. Like it or not, we are trapped. Fix them up when they fall down, put them in jail when they break laws. Either way, we pay. So, how are we going to pay for it, in denial as if one day everyone is going to be responsible. Its almost like we are more concerned with “appearing to give undeserving people handouts” then concerned with the fact that we are giving undeserving people handouts.

note to the author-its a progressive tax, not regressive. progressive-rich pay. regressive, poor pay. The argument that the poor are somehow going to account for 32 billion is a massive stretch. Sure, they might pay some, but we all know where the money’s coming from. And yes, cig taxation is problematic, but decreased smokers mean decreased health care cost. The working class and poor are slightly more likely to smoke, but the middle class and rich spend more money on cigs. Also, the research findings regarding social class and smoking are somewhat misleading because youth in college are officially poor, have high rates of smoking, but predominately middle to upper class. Additionally, the decrease in smoking is only marginally tied to increased taxation and is moreso explained by population dynamics. Its like the gang/incarceration/drug war of the 80′s, the largest population group was 18-35. Now, we are old and tired.

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