Comments on: Obama pledges $1 trillion for Chinese economic, labor stimulus

By: zuiko

zuiko — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:03:29 +0000

So the government can’t lay people off in bad times. And we know they’ll never lay people off in the good times… instead they will be adding headcount like the good times will last forever. What happens to the size of government under your plan?

By: lilnev

lilnev — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:50:10 +0000

Infrastructure dollars generally stay at home, and economists will tell you that the “multiplier” is pretty good (roughly, the number of times it circulates before dying out). The problem with using infrastructure as economic stimulus is the lead time required. You can’t simply declare, “we’re going to spend X billion dollars next month on infrastructure”.

Broad-based tax cuts/stimulus checks are easy and fast, but they do “leak”. I’ve seen estimates for the marginal propensity to import of around 0.2 to 0.3.

One other good channel for stimulus is aid to local and state governments. Most of them have balanced budget constraints, and their revenue suffers and public assistance rises in a recession, which means they’re looking at raising taxes or cutting public employees. I know that the mantra around here tends to be, “Less government is always better.” But I would submit that now is not the time to be laying people off, when the private sector is also contracting.

peace,
lilnev

By: zuiko

zuiko — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:47:29 +0000

Sure, gravel isn’t important. But we do import just about everything else. like steel and thermostats and light fixtures, etc. There’s a lot more that goes into a community center or light rail line than gravel.

You are also a fool if you don’t think there won’t be any money spent on things like computers in this trillion dollar boondoggle. There will be money to spend on everything. I’m sure there will be a few million to study the mating habits of frogs. Congress can’t spend $5 without attaching unrelated spending to the bill. You expect them to spend a whopping trillion dollars on nothing but roads? You are dreaming.

By: JLenardDetroit

JLenardDetroit — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:16:28 +0000

lol…. to that small little town of “Nowhere” …

Not gonna get into that whole thing again…. Was going to an area with an AIRPORT, which would have then been expanded and spawned Economic development/growth … yes, the project was over-blown and over-priced… but NOT completely out of what “could” or “should” be considered…. but paid for by the peeps of AK!

NO INFRASTRUCTURE BAILOUT… Let the States come up with their own funds… We did this in MI under REPUBLICANS (Gov Engler) years ago… to fulfill decades of Promises Made… Engler made them Promises Kept (after Democrat admins ignored them)…. Fixed crumbling roads, bridges, etc….

Like I’ve discussed with DeVine.. I am NOT out-of-hand dismissive of such projects, just that we throw money NOW… these things can/should be done when in an UP Economy and they can best be afforded! I can be “persuaded” for some, but we all know this is more about UNION PAYOFF and PORK than anything else by Democrats!

By: bobojake

bobojake — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:13:23 +0000

Obama slept through economics 101 and alot of other classes. It time to call Senators-Congressman both Democrats and Republicans, all of them whether they are from your State or not and tell them don’t pass a darm bill for 90 days until its been vetted and let them know we want our manufacturing base back. We have had it with the Senator and Congressman and the sloppy jobs they have been doing asleep yes sir ee. Let them start working for $1.00 a year and no free lunches.

By: Menlo

Menlo — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:09:17 +0000

“The problem with that, of course, is that America no longer manufactures the products necessary to be self-sufficient to such a degree that Chinese imports can be forsaken.”

Chinese imports need to be banned, and the people in businesses who make the ultimate decision to take their imports need to be put in federal prison. They are not good people, and they don’t belong in any position above a janitor.

By: JLenardDetroit

JLenardDetroit — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:07:28 +0000

If it is OK now to fill light-bulbs with Mercury to “save the Planet” (huh?) by that same logic we should not only have lead-paint toys but solid lead toys again so THEY LAST LONGER and therefore don’t have to be tossed (landfill) for other toys when they break, the paint chips, etc…. Huh? yep… exactly… but it does indeed match the same warped logic…

and won’t a return to lead based paint in our homes help insulate and save energy? …. yep… I know…

Save the Planet…. launch an Enviro-Terrorist into space….

By: JLenardDetroit

JLenardDetroit — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:52:52 +0000

from China?

By: Yil

Yil — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:22:07 +0000

Hmm… I think the material for those roads and bridges tends to come from, uh, here. I can’t know where steel for large suspension types bridges come from since that might require specific high quality blends, but this isn’t about building those kinds of huge bridges expensive bridges. It’s about overpasses, small rivers bridges, etc. That uses concrete, wood, labor, and civil engineers. I’m also under the impression that regular road work was considered a really good “pork” project entirely BECAUSE it created local jobs and used local materials and when done correctly made things better for drivers in the long run which made voters happy. Concrete and asphalt are just too heavy to ship anywhere, so you get it from local quarries and mixing plants which again employ people who are hurting right now as new construction is rapidly falling off and states are going to be forced to stop road work to pay other bills since state revenues are dropping off. I’m not saying that they deserve to be helped out more than any other industry suffering, but to argue that building physical infrastructure of this type helps Asia more than us seems like a bad argument.

You mentioned schools. I think a lot of the school work being proposed is to revitalize really old buildings which uses labor, and, uh, building materials. Now perhaps some wood might be coming from Canada, but I bet the bulk is made in the US. Oh, and probably tons of paperwork on planning, permits, etc which isn’t great but certainly isn’t going to be done in Asia.

You highlight air conditioners and computers. I don’t think this plan will be used to buy computers at all, but I’ll give you air conditioners. Of course a lot of schools don’t even have them, and of those which do the cost of the labor to install them is a good portion of the total especially if adding or replacing duct work is involved. Give the effects of free trade I don’t think you can pick any large scale public project and not have some portion of the materials come from outside the US.

Schools and roads tend to last a long time, they are a good investment. Only other thing I’d suggest would be more high speed internet access. I think local governments should get awards to run fiber from every house to the local street, development, whatever junction points and from there to perhaps a few distribution points or something. At that point any ISP, phone company, etc can setup shop and compete for customers. Letting companies like Verizon lay the fiber is a bad long term move as that’s just another monopoly being formed. Even if a competitor came into the area and had the money to compete they’d have to tear up yards and roads again to lay new fiber. Lay it once and be done with it I say since I think fiber has a long lifetime.