More on DC Voting – “Let’s do something” is the problem with Washington


In response to my first post, there were too many issues raised to deal with all of them, but several merit a response.

First, and most importantly – the phrase “let’s do something” raised in one comment is precisely the disease that too often engulfs Congress and the rest of Washington. It is almost never necessary to “do something.” It is almost always VERY BAD to “do something.” The Banks are failing – “do something.” The economy is in trouble – “do something.” A museum is needed for Woodstock – “do something!!!!!” The idea that we cannot survive without Congress “doing something” is the biggest problem we face today…

With respect to this issue – DC representation – it’s hard to believe that with terrorists running amok (many more soon thanks to Democrat control), an economy in bad shape, a completely broken immigration system, and a looming Social Security and Medicare crisis, that the DC representation issue is the most pressing matter… particularly considering it is not exactly a new issue!

Speaking of… and to my second point, the “taxation without representation” line is tired and overused in this context. Besides the obvious point that only a small portion of the residents even pay taxes in the first place, consider that this issue is not new and was addressed by Chief Justice John Marshall in an 1820 opinion:

The difference between requiring a continent, with an immense population, to submit to be taxed by a government having no common interest with it, separated from it by a vast ocean, restrained by no principle of apportionment, and associated with it by no common feelings; and permitting the representatives of the American people, under the restrictions of our constitution, to tax a part of the society…which has voluntarily relinquished the right of representation, and has adopted the whole body of Congress for its legitimate government, as is the case with the district, is too obvious not to present itself to the minds of all. Although in theory it might be more congenial to the spirit of our institutions to admit a representative from the district, it may be doubted whether, in fact, its interests would be rendered thereby the more secure; and certainly the constitution does not consider their want of a representative in Congress as exempting it from equal taxation.

Third, ok… you caught me. You are correct that the better analysis re: the overall federal spending issue is the relative per capita expenditure vs. per capita tax burden. So, according to the Tax Foundation, the federal-spending-per-dollar-of-taxes in DC in 2005 (sorry I didn’t find more current) was $5.55. The next closest? New Mexico with $2.03… placing DC at almost 3X the next highest… and almost 10X the lowest (New Jersey).

Fourth, and finally. Sure, Heritage points out the “unassailable premise of government by consent.” Yes. We all know. Government “of the people, by the people, for the people.” The plight of the residents of the District of Columbia is not exactly the saddest story I have ever heard, however. They do have a free will (i.e. they can move). They do have the benefit of massive tourism. They do have the entire Congress looking out for them in the end. They do vote for President. They do get a national defense. They do get a ton of money.  They do enjoy the rule of law and the protection of the same freedoms as the rest of us.  The list goes on and on.

What precisely is it they are missing? The idea that the “people in power” are not accountable discounts the provision of home rule to DC (for better or worse), and the aforementioned Congressional oversight of, and provision to, DC.

And even if one does get wound up about the principle of it all – the Constitutional question remains.

  1. The statute option being pushed by Democrats (and Orrin Hatch) is unconstitutional. If you disagree, fine – but you ignore the text of the Constitution.
  2. To amend the Constitution to simply add a representative for DC – as I suspect the Republicans will foolishly propose in an attempt to prove they care but also show they want to “do it the right way” – is to, as I stated above, undermine the fundamental premise that we built our nation upon the existing sovereign states. The language of the Constitution purposefully and necessarily reflects that fact in its federalist structure. In short – to provide for representation outside of the states is to turn the Constitution on its head.
  3. Retrocession also raises some Constitutional concerns.

My main point about all of this is that Republicans should not seek some solution for the sake of having a solution. This is the “let’s do something” mindset that destroys our nation on a daily basis. They can, and should in contemplating any resolution to this situation, consider the intent of the framers in creating an independent capital city and guaranteeing representation for the citizens of the several states.


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23 Comments Leave a comment

amen and GC highly recommends - more later on letting the free market work

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 8:57AM EST (link)

I will link to this in my next diary.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

Take back Alexandria

lapert Friday, February 20th at 9:45AM EST (link)

How about undoing the questionable retrocession of Alexandria to Virginia? Not only is that clearly a constitutional option, it would turn solve the broader problem faced by DC which is the lack of a sustainable tax base to operate an actual city and could avoid the political issues by turning Virginia back to red.

 

My biggest problem with Washington DC, the city...

scottbomb (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 11:22AM EST (link)

…is that it’s so far removed from the rest of America. The founders wanted the capitol to be somewhat centrally located in order to provide for access by all Americans. They were afraid that a capital that’s geographically removed from most Americans would become “out of touch” and pehaps even tyrannical.

Welcome to 2009. I think if the founders were alive today, they’d insist it be located in Omaha, Kansas City, or Des Moines.

www.HowObamaGotElected.com

“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” – Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

 

"do something" is an endemic failing of DC

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 11:31AM EST (link)

Indeed you are right, hogan. Reagan was right about this too. In most situtations facing us today, things will improve to the extent you remove government tampering. More layers of regulation and oversight just add to the bloat and further gum up the free market’s ability to fix itself.

The Dems have used the “do something” meme to stampede foolish people (Specter et al) into rash and destructive action.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

 

Make'em pay

owise1 Friday, February 20th at 12:07PM EST (link)

It occurs to me that the passage of this bill has created opportunities for the Republican Party – and for America – that perhaps haven’t yet been considered. The Stimulus Bill was passed without a single Senator or Congressman (or the President himself) reading the thing or knowing what is in it. At least part of the reason it was passed was that a lot of Americans – and elected officials – had the bejeebers scared out of them and as this article suggests, just wanted to “do something.” They were willing to load everything imaginable into the gun in hopes that when they squeezed the trigger the chances of actually hitting at least one target might be improved. We can’t go back undo the thing. We didn’t have the votes to prevent it, we won’t have the votes to repeal it. At least not in toto. But the way to swallow an elephant is to take one bite at a time.

There are many provisions of the Stimulus Bill that would never have been able to pass had they not been buried in this massive boondoggle. Some of these have already come to light, and as they do Americans will be righteously indignant at the snake oil the Big Government liberals have sold them. One strategy for the Republicans would be to constantly remind the voters that they opposed this thing from the beginning. I would call this the “I told you so” plan. In some ways it has merit, but it makes them come across as victims… victims of the hyper-partisan Democrat majority. The “I told you so” strategy might allow Republicans to feel smug about themselves, but those who are hurt by the Bill (and that will be most Americans) will know by that time that they were wrong to have trusted the Democrats and they will not be comforted to hear someone else tell them “I told you so.”

A better strategy it seems to me, would be for the Republicans in Congress to scour the Bill and identify those individual components that are especially egregious. Rank them from worst to just bad. Call it the “low hanging fruit.” These would be those items of the Bill that would not have had a snowball’s chance in Phoenix of passage if they had been offered on a stand-alone basis. The public would not have stood for them. Beginning immediately, the Republicans should take one of these items every week or every month for the next 1-2 years and offer up bills to repeal that particular section of the larger Stimulus Package. This has the advantage of (1) reminding the country that they are trying to be good stewards with public funds; (2) reminding the country that the Democrats, in their rush to just “do something,” allowed some real stinkers get through; (3) removing the excuse that “I didn’t know that was in there” from the Democrats; (4) forcing the Democrats to go “on the record” for each and every individual piece of this Bill that was passed; (5) keeping the issue before the American public until either they vote the scoundrels out or until they peel enough Blue Dog Dems away from marching lock-step with their Party. When everything’s said and done, the Republicans will not have just one issue (the Stimulus Bill) to run on in the next election, they will have scores of different issues – the various pieces of the Bill that the Democrats refused to repeal. True, the Democrat leadership in the House and Senate are not likely to allow these kinds of bills to come to the floor for a vote. But even that is good for the Republicans as it will give them nowhere to hide in the next election.

 

Using the DC schools as an indicator

johnt Friday, February 20th at 12:38PM EST (link)

along with the overall performance of city managed services, one would think that rather than Congressional representation declaring the city a mental emergency ward would be more appropriate.
Vote? They can’t even think, not that that is a qualification any more.

Of course if there was any chance that DC would send an occasional Republican to Congress talk of representation would vanish into thin air, which is where all liberal principles wind up.

“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville

 

“That government is best which governs least”

farstar99 (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 12:51PM EST (link)

One of the few things Thoreau said with which I agree. (I know, people attribute to Jefferson, but unfortunately, it appears Thoreau said it.)

Here is the strategy I think we should follow as a party. Make the Democrats and Obama own what they are doing. It’s obvious they don’t know what they’re doing unless it involves corruption or theft.
So flood the world with the name Obama. Use it in every day conversation in place of other words. Every plan is the Obama plan. Every obstruction or theft of rights, every attack on the Constitution is the Democrat obstruction, the Obama attack on the Constitution.

The guy is obsessed with himself, his Brand, as he calls it. Flood the market. Make people SICK TO DEATH of his name, sick to death of our complaining about him. Make them wish he’d just go away. Make them sick of the Democrats by extension.

We know it works.
They did it to us.

 

Gross oversimplification

mallcopsaysno Friday, February 20th at 1:21PM EST (link)

First
This DC voting rights issue is an injustice only the government is going to be able to correct. And so it should.

You know what else wasn’t a new issue, nor was it likely the biggest problem facing the nation or the world in 1919 and 1920? Women’s suffrage. We got that solved though.

Second

Besides the obvious point that only a small portion of the residents even pay taxes in the first place…

I have no idea where you’re pulling that from. I pay federal taxes here. I have no voting representation in Congress. That’s not ok. Not in this country.

Here’s something to think about in response to Justice Marshall:

Federalists argued that exclusive legislative jurisdiction over the seat of government was needed so the federal government would not be dependent on a state for security in case of mutiny or disruption. Samuel Osgood, a member of the Board of Treasury, said, “It has cost me a sleepless night to find out the most obnoxious part of the proposed plan, and I have finally fixed upon the exclusive legislation in the Ten Miles Square. What an inexhaustible fountain of corruption are we opening?” James Madison argued that the Constitution should be adapted despite concerns because District citizens “will have had their voice in the election of the government which is to exercise authority over them; as a municipal legislature for local purposes, derived from their own suffrages, will of course be allowed them.” Alexander Hamilton proposed an idea that wasn’t adopted – to let DC residents vote in the state from which they had previously belonged (Maryland and Virginia) until their population grew, at which time Congress would give DC voting representation in that body. The historical record indicates that the founders were concerned about the rights of District citizens and left open the possibility that future generations could address the inequity. However, at the time, getting approval for the federal Constitution was more important than assuring national representation for District citizens.

link

Third
I’m not sure what I should be impressed with here. The federal government obviously spends a lot of money here… on itself. And it doesn’t pay taxes as I pointed out before.

About 31 percent of all property value in the District is exempt from property taxation due to the federal and diplomatic presence (21 percent) as well as other tax-exempt properties (10 percent).

link (very informative)

Fourth
You say:

They do have a free will (i.e. they can move).

Some people are born here (not me). How about them? Just pack up and go like the Joads or something? Should we just make everyone in this area commute in from VA or MD? That’s impractical in the extreme.

Then you say:

They do have the entire Congress looking out for them in the end.

Should I be reassured by that? Seriously?

With regard to the Constitutional question, if the Constitution was a perfect document, we’d not have any amendments.

Fun fact: If I lived in Iran, I’d have more of a voice in Congress than I do now.

My point in all this is that this issue affects me personally, and I’d like to see some Republican leadership here. It would be an act of justice and not self-interest. Rare in politics, I know, but possible.

I do appreciate you raising the issue. It is worthy of discussion here and elsewhere.

You don't live in a state, so it is OK.

Moe Lane (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 1:27PM EST (link)

“I pay federal taxes here. I have no voting representation in Congress. That’s not ok. Not in this country.”

Actually, it’s perfectly fine. You don’t like it? Move three miles.

Quick follow-up: personally, I'd like to hand...

Moe Lane (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 1:29PM EST (link)

…everything except the actual portions of DC that are federal buildings back to Maryland, but the Democrats love having those extra three EVs, so it isn’t going to happen.

Such is life.

I'd be fine with that

mallcopsaysno Friday, February 20th at 1:51PM EST (link)
 

Me and the other 581,832 residents?

mallcopsaysno Friday, February 20th at 1:55PM EST (link)

We could all move three miles I suppose, but I’d rather have the vote come to us.

 

Is that really an answer?

lapert Friday, February 20th at 1:55PM EST (link)

I happen to agree with your suggestion below. But is ‘they can move’ really an acceptable answer? If the Brits had said the colonists can move to french territories would that have, philosophically, refuted Jefferson? I don’t see how.

Yup!

Moe Lane (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 2:15PM EST (link)

At least, it’s acceptable to *me.* As somebody who lives about halfway between Baltimore and DC, I’m pretty much unsympathetic to the entire ‘taxation without representation’ argument. Price they pay for three largely undeserved EVs which continuously threaten to put us into a deadlocked Presidential election every four years.

Mind you, if the District started voting Republican I might change my mind. Because I’m a hypocrite that way.

Well I can respect that

lapert Friday, February 20th at 2:19PM EST (link)

As long as one is honest about their hypocrisy I’m all for it.

I live closer to the district than halfway and have no particular affinity for it – but conceptually I do think there is a broader question of how we square this with our underlying political philosophy (not at the same moral equivalency, but similar to slavery as issue postponed for the sake of pragmatism until it could no longer be).

 
 

See the arguement made by Chief Justice Marshall 1820 quoted in the diary...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 2:31PM EST (link)

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/us/18/317.html

mallcopsaysno…
“About 31 percent of all property value in the District is exempt from property taxation due to the federal and diplomatic presence (21 percent) as well as other tax-exempt properties (10 percent).”

Federal Property is just that, federal property, if they are not exempted from DC taxes on property, then DC controls the tax payers of the US (since the Federal Gov gets its income from taxpayers, it would be one a double whammy to citizens of DC. No, I do not want DC to have that power.

Number two because Arlington was returned to Viriginia is fine, but returning DC to Maryland or Viriginia would violate the constitution again it specifically talks to the “District”

One other interesting thing about Article I Section 8, DC “To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.”

Pretty much seals the fate of DC. “seat of Government” “Cession of particular States” and “exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be”.

So forming the state of DC would also again violate Article IV Section 3:

“New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.”

because the creation of DC from another state (that happened 200+ years ago does not apply as a reason here) is specifically addressed. So again, we need an ammendment to correct this issue, and in it a smaller area needs to be given up by DC to the federal government to form the new Seat of Power. District of the District of Columbia

Taxes

mallcopsaysno Friday, February 20th at 2:46PM EST (link)

I understand the reasoning behind not subjecting federal buildings to local District taxes. What you should understand is that this doesn’t happen in other cities. Not that other cities don’t have federal buildings, but no other city has so many, so concentrated in the very best commercial real estate. Why aren’t we more financially self-sufficient? That’s one reason right there.

 
 
 
 

When I lived in NOVA ...

skorrent1 (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 2:12PM EST (link)

I used to tell disgruntled DC residents that they were sacrificed to the greater good as an object lesson of the type of government we might all expect as Congress assumed more and more control over local affairs.

Unfortunately, the rest of the country refused to learn by the example. As a result, a great many of us beyond the Potomac have the same feeling of being taxed, regulated and controlled without representation.

As to the net flow of taxes and services, does DC have any viable industry other than as the Federal seat and associated tourism?

does DC have any viable industry other than as the Federal seat and associated tourism?...

Attack Mode (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 2:22PM EST (link)

Crack Cocaine?

/snark

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

 

Depends on how broad

lapert Friday, February 20th at 2:28PM EST (link)

Depends on how broadly you define ‘federal seat’. It has a lot of private industries that exist primarily to serve government (publishing is a big one often forgotten, obviously defense contractors, technology services, etc. not to mention the lawyers working on behalf of every company, association, country or constituency that is potentially impacted by government action).

The vast majority of DC residents do not work directly for the federal government.

 
 
 

A very simple look, and it may be wrong...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 2:34PM EST (link)

DC’s representation is the entire representation of the United States of America.

 

Restore and strengthen the Hatch Act

Achance (Diary) Friday, February 20th at 2:41PM EST (link)

to include proscribing participation in any activity intended to influence a state or federal election and extending it to officers and employees of any organization having a contract or receiving a grant from the federal government. Then and only then I might consider additional political rights for residents of the District.

And just to be clear, I strongly support the same sort of limitations on the rights of ANY public employee to influence the government for which they work and likewise any contractor or grantee of a state or local government.

In Vino Veritas

 

If a DC resident & no vote

johnt Friday, February 20th at 3:28PM EST (link)

then what priorities have been freely chosen? An individual choice of some sort has been arrived at, no vote but what other convenience or advantage? You take your pick and you pay your price and apparently not having the vote is not a problem sufficient enough to cause moving.
Therefore it ought not to be a sufficient reason to amend the Constitution.

“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville