Revolution or Civil War: The choice is ours!


We are nearing a crossroads in America at a very high rate of speed, and the brakes have failed! A decision will have to be made to yank the wheel to the Right or the Left. Either choice will have serious, long-lasting consequences, and the result will be felt around the world. “We the People” are in the drivers seat, and unfortunately, most of us don’t have a license to drive. It is our collective fault that we have allowed each other to “drive” through life without a license, and “we” have limited recourse at this moment in history. Will enough of us reach-up, grab the wheel, and with one concerted effort, steer this nightmare ride back onto a true course? God willing, we will.

From the moment that President Obama was sworn into office, there was a rift forming in America that started to open in a hurry. Within weeks, the euphoria and novelty of electing the “first black President” began to wane, and reality was setting in quickly. “We the People’s” eyes began to open, and what we were seeing was not Hope and Change, but Despair and Anger. The Tag-Team-Trio of Obama, Pelosi and Reid were aggressively taking strides to turn our nation into some third-world, Banana Republic, tin-pot dictatorship. The bailouts and take-overs of the Auto Industry and the Banks, the smack-down on Wall Street, the Health-care Deform, the Czars, and the endless list of atrocities, have taken their toll on ‘We the People”. We took to the streets to protest peacefully, we swarmed town-halls to the point that members of Congress didn’t want to show-up. We called, we faxed, we emailed, we got in their faces; but they have failed to listen to us.

The Tea Parties were born. Groups of like-minded, freedom-loving, patriotic Americans of all races, religions, and political parties, rose up to collectively voice their disapproval of the Federal Government and its policies. They failed to listen. We have taken back some prime Congressional seats in special elections, and hammered incumbent politicians in primaries. They failed to listen. We have begun to grab hold of the wheel, but will it be enough? We have the momentum, but do we have the political will, the fire in the belly, to fight the onslaught of Liberal hatred that is about to besige “We the People” in the coming months leading up to that fateful day in November?

I believe that we have two choices:

Revolution – Yank the wheel to the Right…

The Founding Fathers gave us the perfect form of term limits and regime change - the ballot box. Unfortunately, “We the People” have not been good stewards, or students, of history, and we have neglected our civic duty for far to long. Pitiful, painful, pathetic politicians have been elected and re-elected, over and over, to the point that our Representative Republic is a hollow shell of its former glory. That tide has begun to turn. I pray that it is not too late, and that our momentum does not wane. “We the People” have begun to rise-up and take back our country, and by doing this at the ballot box, the Revolution will be mostly peaceful, albeit very vocal. The Left will not go quietly into the night, and they have not even started to drag their artillery up to the front lines of this battle. We must be prepared to fight, to the death if necessary, because this “war” is going to get nasty…  The Purple People Beaters, the Progressives, the ACLU, and the MSM will yell, scream, fight and lie till they’re vanquished. When we are at our darkest moment, with all the hatred spewing our way, will we light the torch of Liberty and stay in the fight? The good news is that we have our B-52′s loaded with truth and reality, ready to rain-down hell on the opposition. We have learned Alinsky’s rules well. We have studied the opposition. Will we take the fight to them and keep them on the defensive? Time will tell…

It will take decades of persistence to roll-back the Progressive, Statist mess we find ourselves in. Those in the general population who have had their hands out for generations, are going to be really, really angry when we start to trim-back and eliminate all the government programs, agencies, and regulations that have created the government-teat-sucking cycle of dependency. The road to self-reliance will be littered with the bodies of everyone who is unwilling to “change” or adapt to their new reality. We must be willing to step-over, go-around, or drive over anyone who stands in our way of re-taking our Republic! With the Online Right and God’s Might, we can win this war peacefully. There will be bloodshed, but it will be caused by them as they realize the DOOM they are facing. “We the People” will have begun the onerous task of righting this ship. No Liberal or RINO will be safe from our reach!

Failure to win this November leaves us only one other choice… 

Civil War – May God have Mercy on their Souls…

If we fail to re-take at least one house of Congress, the peaceful Revolution will not happen. The match will be lit. We will be forced into a very ugly, bloody, Civil War that will make the first one look like a Sunday stroll in the park. The extreme Left will have at least two more years to cram-down Socialist legislation that will destroy America at her very core. All the crap that has already been passed will begin to take effect. Our taxes will skyrocket, our health care as we know it will vanish. The unions will have their Card Check and all businesses will be taken-over. “We the People” will not be able to afford gas for our cars, or electricity for our homes and businesses. Fifteen million illegals will be granted amnesty (health care, social security, education, etc.) and the border will still be wide-open. Our National Debt will roar past our GDP, and our country will be bankrupt. Life as we know it will cease to exist, and the dark-days of a dying socialist experiment will be our reality.

The Americans who still have some semblance of reality (and fight left in them) will begin to organize into small, then huge militias in the various States. The skirmishes will start out small in fly-over country, and there will be serious bloodshed as the Government attempts to quell the uprisings. Remember that match being lit? The Governments’ use of deadly force on her citizens will ignite the rage that will sweep across the nation, like a wildfire on a hot, dry prairie in August. A lot of very good men and women will die fighting for our Liberty and Freedom, but as Thomas Jefferson wrote…

“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all and always well-informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had thirteen States independent for eleven years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each State. What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon, and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”

At the very least, the major metropolitan areas will be isolated (they are already surrounded by Red) and there will be no escape. To get anything in or out of a Blue county, it has to go through Red at some point. Good luck with that. When the Blue areas are sufficiently starved, they will come looking for food, and they will either be set right to the facts, pardoned or pacified. If not, we will refresh the tree of liberty with their blood!

Time will tell how things turn out. I pray every night that November rewards all of our hard-work and perseverance. We have an opportunity to change Americas’ course, and we must be good students and stewards of history. We must not let the radical Left retain power, and we must be dutiful to ensure that those we put in power, keep their word, and fight for us. Anything less than one-hundred percent commitment from our elected representatives is unacceptable. We know that power corrupts and it is our duty as citizens to keep their feet held close to the fire at all times. Serving “We the People” is not a career, it is a responsibility, and one that should not be taken lightly. They will listen to us or be sent home!

A few closing thoughts. For those of you that know me, I abhor violence and civil unrest. I like to be allowed to live my life as I see fit, and allow others to do the same. However, I will not stand idly by and watch my Liberty and Freedom be taken from me by our Government. I spent way too many years becoming an American citizen to watch her go down in flames. I will defend my God, Country and Family from all enemies, foreign and domestic. They can pry my gun from my cold, dead hand, as they step over the first half-dozen or so that try!

May God Bless America in her darkest hour.

Gary Bentley


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Excellent post! [nt]

LaborUnionReport (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 1:50AM EST (link)

“I bring reason to your ears, and, in language as plain as ABC, hold up truth to your eyes.” Thomas Paine December 23, 1776

In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit.-Ayn Rand

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News & Views on Today’s Labor Unions.


Thank you [nt]

Gary Bentley (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 8:58AM EST (link)

“If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn’t thinking.” – General George Patton Jr

Sr. Systems Analyst by Day, Political Activist by Night!

It's More Dire Than That

GJ Merits (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 4:23PM EST (link)

IMF and economists now agree that U.S. debt will exceed GDP by 2012-2014 depending on the source. CBO puts it in 2020, but who trusts them anymore.

Lame duck Congress will pass immigration reform and cap-and-trade. Look for the possibility of the DISCLOSE act to pass by late August to early September.

You leave out one very real possibility: nullification. It is reaching a critical mass now with a tour beginning in September by the Tenth Amendment Center with Thomas Woods the main speaker. Major publications and organizations are beginning to talk about it as it gains traction in the populace. Here is something from Human Events (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37967&page=2&viewID=1486311):

“The rebirth of nullification is not welcome news to everyone. MSNBC and the New York Times do not want us to say or do these things. They like the situation just the way it is: we make lots of noise, and they rack up the victories. They are happy if we persist in the same failed and flawed strategy that has gotten us exactly nowhere. I for one would prefer not to give them the satisfaction.

It’s fine to hold conferences, write letters to the editor, and sign petitions. But at some point it becomes morally (and practically) necessary to do more than just wring our hands about the behavior of the federal government. At some point we in our states must say: we are not going to do it. Never did I suspect that the American people would grow angry and politically aware enough to put these great principles back on the table. Ideas I once covered as a historian I am now discussing as a commentator on current events. This is the healthiest development in American politics I have seen in my life. Everyone reading these words owes it to the cause of freedom to be a part of it. We have been played for fools long enough.”

Think of what will happen if the above situations come to pass – particularly the lame duck strategy which is looking more and more real every passing day. The length of time required to address these situations using standard tactics (elections and lawsuits) are far to long to stop the economic damage these policies will create. Action will need to be swift and coordinated. From “Whether They Want us to or Not” (http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/07/09/whether-they-want-us-to-or-not/):

“To be sure, it could turn out that, short of the financial day of reckoning that is surely coming, slowing down the federal government is simply impossible. But if we are to make any inroads against it, they are probably not going to come in the form of tidy legal briefs whose persuasive force overwhelms the judicial branch. They are unlikely to come through legislation, as generations of failure to roll back the federal government should have made clear enough.

Ultimately, a coordinated response by as many states as possible, in which those states declare that they will not comply with, and will work to prevent the enforcement of, a federal edict seems like the only realistic way the federal government might be forced to retreat. We would be way beyond court decisions at that point. Court decisions would be like Politburo speeches in 1991. The states would be carving out a new modus vivendi with the federal government, inspired by a long-dormant Jeffersonian tradition whose wisdom cannot seriously be doubted in 2010.

Times of economic turmoil can put options on the table that might have been dismissed under other circumstances. The best we can hope for in the coming years is a lengthy period of economic stagnation, followed by serious social upheaval when the entitlement programs inevitably collapse. Is it so unthinkable that a few governors, anxious to preserve some kind of livable economic conditions for their people, could begin defying unfunded mandates from the federal government in the name of the prosperity of their state? A financially strapped federal government will hardly be able to stop them. What supporter of the market economy and the free society would oppose a development like this? No one, right? So why not prepare the ground for it? That’s why I decided the time was right for a book that would set forth the most persuasive historical, constitutional, and moral arguments for a once-despised remedy that may turn out to be the last functioning defense mechanism of a decaying republic.”

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 
 

I choose Revolution. It's important that it's the

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 6:46AM EST (link)

Good Guys wearing the badges.

Same here, Vassar.

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 7:33AM EST (link)

Let’s just “hope” the revolution is allowed to occur, or the “change” won’t be welcome with open arms, but with open fire…… and I’m of the complete belief that our side will not be the ones to start the avalanche…… their crisis to o good to waste – a combination of everything taken to a single ‘go’ moment in time.

————-

Will somebody – anybody – finally ask our POTUS the direct question: Sir, less than a week before the election in November 2008, you stated “In five days, we will begin to transform The United States.”….. Transform it into what ?

"The Overton Window"

BlueStateSaint Tuesday, July 13th at 7:59AM EST (link)

In real life. Or something along those lines.

 

They will not willingly submit to the results of November 2

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 5:23PM EST (link)

But I don’t think they are *yet* entrenched enough to steal everything they would have to steal to make their side have even an argument for legitimacy.

It will be very, very interesting November, 3,4,5 and following.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

If the Donks lose big, watch out starting about

texasgalt (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 8:08PM EST (link)

March 2011. The shock will have worn off, the new Congress will be about its work and it will be warm enough for the anarchists.

Twitter Button from twitbuttons.com

 
 

Reflecting on Your Comment

OccamsRazor (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 1:58AM EST (link)

While reading the KosKids, for some time (time is relative) before they introduced me to RedState.com, they were so frightened of what was within themselves, they’d project upon Bush W. such a vile nature as to see him organize the perfect storm for Marshall Law-in hindsight it seems like a telegraphing of their feathers flocking together.

I’m coming to the conclusion that the liberals have become impatient with boiling the frog, see victory in sight and are rushing their perceived ending ‘without and exit plan’. Perhaps ‘[they] should enjoy the rest of the war, because peace will be hell’. ;)

 
 

The Good Guys

Gary Bentley (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 8:37AM EST (link)

Need to be wearing badges – Texas Ranger Style.

“If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn’t thinking.” – General George Patton Jr

Sr. Systems Analyst by Day, Political Activist by Night!

I don't wear a badge, but I do have a few t-shirts.

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 10:44AM EST (link)

I’ve had a few ‘interesting’ things occur when I wear one of the shirts too.

Can’t figure out why though.

All the shirts have printed on them is, “Typical bitter Jewish God-clinging gun owner and barking-mad-insane NASCAR fan….. Any questions ?”

Must be the font I chose to use….. Yeah, that must be the problem.

Great Post!

clarkeusmc Friday, July 16th at 3:58PM EST (link)

Shalom Patriot!

 
 

I thinking Frontier Justice as well, Gary

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 7:31AM EST (link)

VB

 
 
 

I'll be the one with the pitchfork.

Loren Heal (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 10:49AM EST (link)

.


Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.

 

All of this can be avoided if we UNITE politically

ColdWarrior (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 11:58AM EST (link)

We conservative Republicans haven’t even really begun to organize effectively yet. A good gauge is the level of participation in the Republican Party itself. I’m not talking about voter registrations. I’m talking about actually showing up at your local GOP committee meeting and becoming a voting member of the Party – it’s called precinct committeeman in most states, ward captain in others, associate in others, etc. Whatever it’s called, HALF of these slots, these nuts-and-bolts, “bottom” positions that DEFINE the Party, because they, and only they, are eligible to elect the Party leaders, were unfilled in the 2008 election cycle. Are you one? If not, why not?

Have you signed up, yet, with any campaign to help Get Out The Vote for that candidate? Do you know the name of your precinct (they all have names or numbers)? The name of any Republican Party precinct committeeman in your precinct? His address? Do you even know the Republicans who live near your? Do you know where your local GOP committee meetings are held? Ever been to one of the meetings?

Watch this video:

If most of that was new to you, you’ve got some work to do, no?

Have you developed your citizenship responsibilities?

If you want to learn more, go to my little blog before. But don’t bother if you aren’t interested in going to your local GOP committee meeting, as you’ll just be wasting your time.

For Liberty,
ColdWarrior, PC (that’s “precinct committeeman,” not “political child!”)
Conservatives, UNITE! CHANGE the Republican Party and save the world by UNITING INSIDE the Party as precinct committeemen. NOW! (112 days until Nov. 2 — what are YOU DOING to help get out the vote in your precinct?)

In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?

Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and Unified Patriots.

I agree, it is not enough to talk and be concerned...

tapout Wednesday, July 14th at 9:21PM EST (link)

We need to vote with our pocketbooks and personal time and support candidates that will fight for what is right. I am new to politics, and have become active for the first time in volunteering for a candidate I truly believe in, but I’ve become very disillusioned by the internal machinations of the Republican party. I could gnash my teeth and lament about why things are the way they are, or as ColdWarrior points out, I could step into the Party and help change it from within.–I think I’ll keep fighting.

5 Every little bit helps.

gekster (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 9:30PM EST (link)

I posted this in a diary to let people know that every little bit does help.

When Building a Dam.
If you can bring a large rock for the dam,
that will help get the dam built.
If you bring a few pebbles for the dam,
That too will help get the dam built.
Does it really matter who brings what and how much they bring?
The dam still gets built.
And when building a conservative dam to stop the flood of liberalism,
Every piece of rock helps.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

 
 
 

Sure makes it easier knowing that there aren't any urban conservatives, real or potential -nt-

CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 1:04PM EST (link)

Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)

soli Deo gloria

It's just that most urban conservatives are disarmed and divided

Beaglescout (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 1:14AM EST (link)

Yes, conservative outreach needs to go into the cities. How?

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

Speak to the values of the city

hickorystick (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 1:45AM EST (link)

The game is representation. The person elected needs to represent what the city is really all about. Scott Brown did this. It won’t be Rush Limbaugh stuff, but it will be the cities values, with conservative solutions.
Most cities are struggling with their budgets. Point out this failure, and offer solutions that are more practical, and achieve the same thing. Dino Rossi took charge of balancing the budget, and didn’t cut programs for the most dependant i.e. handicapped or foster kids. Praise what the city values, do it more practically.
I have been working on getting funding for a bridge to the southern part of the city. They say they have a budget crisis, but they can afford a $3.8 billion tunnel to the northern, richer part of the city. I called BS, and were now 3/4′s funded, and not a dime from the Federal Treasury (yet). Try to be useful for what the People need. Be part of solutions, and care about people. You don’t have to win all of the city, just a part. The rural areas will gladly take care of the rest.

Yours is of course right on the top-down side

CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 6:00AM EST (link)

Mine is bottom-up, but may there be motion in both directions!

Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)

soli Deo gloria

Bottom-up is a good way to go as well

hickorystick (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 7:33PM EST (link)

Check out some of my stuff on South Park Bridge, which is really about South Park, a much maligned, too often ignored section of the City of Seattle. I do a lot of bottom up work as well, although in truthful reality, it is the section of the best people in Seattle.

http://www.redstate.com/hickorystick/2010/07/01/i-saw-real-america-tonight/

 
 

The Cities are Dying...

jcincy Friday, July 16th at 4:37PM EST (link)

I researched this list after pulling the America’s worst cities from Fortune or maybe it was Business Week last year.

The thread that runs through all these cities is clear. Look at the mayor of the city (and the party that controls the city):

Dayton – Democrat
Detroit – Democrat
Cleveland – Democrat
Buffalo – Democrat
Youngstown – Independent (former Democrat)
Flint – Temporary Mayor (former mayor Democrat)
Charleston, W.Va – Republican
Scranton – Democrat
Springfield, MA – Democrat
Canton – Democrat

“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation, to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” — John Jay

Note that Chicago didn't make the list.

acat (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:24PM EST (link)

Chicago is both surrounded by the “collar counties” that tend to be conservatives of one suit or another, and had the good fortune of a Chicago Dem Governor (Blagojevich, of whom you may have heard) of Illinois as well as a Dem or kleptocrat-Repub-lead state legislature who helped Chicago pad over its’ fiscal woes with state loans.

The bills are just starting to come due… Peter is coming over to collect, and Paul has taken to carrying a baseball bat.

Mew

——
self-portrait

Caveat Suffragator

 
 
 

Any way possible, Beaglescout

CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 2:50AM EST (link)

Not said flippantly, either; I appreciate your asking, although I disagree with the premise of title, so perhaps reconsidering that would be a good place to start.

Disarmed? there be more types of weapons than those listed upthread, and
Divided? one might be surprised, if one be willing to see it.

How to reach the cities?

Boots on the ground, faces in the bodega, voices in the classroom.

But first one has to believe that real people live here.

People for whom a neighbor-modelled life would do more to persuade to right thought and action than the most brilliant campaign ads every 2 years or even the untiriing efforts of Erick, Neil and Moe.

But how silly of me to talk like that! Unreal people are so much easier to starve out and use for liberty manure.

Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)

soli Deo gloria

 
 
 

Either one is OK with me

Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 8:28PM EST (link)

Let’s roll.

 

So...

zroxx (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 9:10PM EST (link)

What you’re saying is either (R)’s win congress in November or we’ll have Thunderdome to deal with? And you’re going to make damn sure you have the biggest chainsaw when you confront the American citizens you disagree with?

Thanks for injecting some seriousness into the discussion. [rolls eyes]

 

Interesting diary, Gary

texasgalt (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 9:28PM EST (link)

In 1957, my uncle was a colonel with 1000 paratroopers in Little Rock. They were there to protect the Little Rock Nine, enforcing an integration order. This was a tense confrontation. A lot of bloodletting was avoided only because of an overwhelming display of force (10,000 Guardsmen were there too). I believe him when he says they were prepared to do what was required, as ordered by President Eisenhower.

Do you think American soldiers would fire on their fellow Americans? If you do, are Americans prepared for what just a company of airborne, armed with Squad Automatic Weapons and a few 50 cals can do- not to mention a full out armored assault? I’m not saying our citizens can not be pushed over the edge, but how would you see that going?

If we win the day against the statists a bunch of militias running around in the hills won’t be the reason. If we fail at the ballot box, then we have failed. If real tyranny ensues, only a stout backdoor resistance and non violent civil disobedience hold out hope. Still, I’m personally buying more ammo, just in case.

We better get this right on November 2nd. . . and be brave in the face of the blowback.

http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=old&doc=89

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At first, they will follow orders

Gary Bentley (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 9:49PM EST (link)

But as the American Military continues to get their “orders”, I think that many will break ranks. Afterall, they will be part of the oppressed people as well. A lot of those .50 cals will find themselves changing sides. Orders coming from a Dictator-in-Chief of a nation spiraling out of control, and will not carry much weight with the military brass. I’d lay odds on the military turning their guns on the politicians and not the citizens. Your uncle was following orders that were just and right, despite their unpopularity with the locals.

I do agree that if we fail this November, we will have failed. I do not want to visit the consequences of that failure. We must prevail.

“If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn’t thinking.” – General George Patton Jr

Sr. Systems Analyst by Day, Political Activist by Night!

Agreed TexasGalt we already know the answer from

cactusjack Tuesday, July 13th at 10:30PM EST (link)

history: when ordered to level arms against their home towns, home states and families (literally), about half the graduates of West Point in the country resigned their commissions in 1861. As has been stated in RS threads before, the American Civil War did not begin for certain until Mr Lincoln called for 75,000 troops to invade the South. It was then, not Sumter (which had lingereed on for months), that made war a sudden, sure thing. Also speaking locally, I have to believe that with 36 electoral college votes, about 10% of Americans under arms, are from Texas. ” Let me be clear” – Obama hates the State of Texas and it would be a prime target. But if 10% of his military goes on strike, he has an effectiveness problem. Texans will not shoot on their families when it comes down to it. Neither will South Carolinians, Missourians…you get the picture. To every smug sneer from libs that TX, OK or LA, for example, could “never” secede, consider the import of the following phrase: “oil credits, with guaranteed delivery bbls into NYC, can be arranged.” It’s all O would care about in his newl-y founded, newly- bankrupt 25 Blue States of America.

How did we ever come to this

texasgalt (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 11:39PM EST (link)

that we now discuss such things. I hope a big majority can tear themselves away from their HD TVs long enough to save themselves and all of us from a soft tyranny that is trending towards hard core statism. We get the first part of the answer in November.

The real long term answer is upthread with CW. Take control of the party, people.

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Note in my post I said nothing advocating violence, use of arms, etc.

cactusjack Wednesday, July 14th at 7:38PM EST (link)

Or put another way, imagine if President McCain (like I said, imagine), based on one fire at a logging camp, slapped a statewide moratorium on all logging in Washington State, knocking its already tough unemployment rate of 12% to 18%, driving all the jobs in that industry up to Canada to boot. Then began suing every state in the US that imposes no state income tax, under alleged constitutional – revenue sharing grounds, AND threatening to withhold federal money back to states for Medicare, medicaid. In other words, not secession, but federal “exclusion” – ask the people in Louisiana right now if they don’t feel like theyre getting run over and pushed out by the imperial federal government. If you’re the Governor of a Red State, you have to be preparing legally, constitutionally and fiscallyto protect your state and people, and considering heretofore unthinkable things, because we are all having that strange feeling of seeing things we never thought we’d see in America happening right now in front of our eyes – and it’s mostly on the fed vs. local level with the feds playing the role of bankrupt, out of control, foaming at the mouth Destroyer.

Nullification is a good middle ground

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 12:18PM EST (link)

I often find it odd this approach is often dismissed. The results will be scary, it’s illegal, something bad might happen to me. I can’t put it any better than Martin Luther King, Jr did, and look at what a success he was using non-violent civil disobedience:

“If you have never found something so dear and so precious to you that you will die for it, then you aren’t fit to live. You may be thirty-eight years old, as I happen to be, and one day, some great opportunity stands before you and calls upon you to stand up for some great principle, some great issue, some great cause. And you refuse to do it because you are afraid. You refuse to do it because you want to live longer. You’re afraid that you will lose your job, or you are afraid that you will be criticized or that you will lose your popularity, or you’re afraid that somebody will stab you or shoot at you or bomb your house. So you refuse to take the stand. Well, you may go on and live until you are ninety, but you are just as dead at thirtyeight as you would be at ninety. And the cessation of breathing in your life is but the belated announcement of an earlier death of the spirit. You died when you refused to stand up for right. You died when you refused to stand up for truth. You died when you refused to stand up for justice.”

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

The Democrats are hoping we follow you on this

Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 12:21PM EST (link)

The best th ing we could do for Democrats would be to turn into fringe, freako nullifiers.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

 

Still on that nullification crud?

Richard Mullins (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 12:25PM EST (link)

I thought you started to read history for a change. I guessed wrong.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

He wavered? Shocker! -nt-

Christine (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 12:49PM EST (link)

The primary process is FLAWED. Two states should not decide our candidate.

“I would be a poor Commander in Chief”
– Barack Obama, July 3 2008

Well we does the same thing every time

Richard Mullins (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 12:52PM EST (link)

So nullification is normal for him to talk about but he flunked history.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

Which part did I flunk?

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 3:54PM EST (link)

Where do you want to start? With the constitution? The federalist and anti-federalist papers? The tacit admission by federalists that states are supreme? The real cause of the War Between The States?

Past nullification uses? Current nullification uses? The details of how government grew even under Reagan? The absurdity of believing that shrinking government growth is the same as cutting costs? The complete absence of any historical point of reference that would make one believe that electing your type of politician to office at the federal level will reduce government size?

How about the Marshall court? The historical foundations and understanding by our founders of the Commerce Clause, the Supremacy Clause, and the General Welfare Clause? How the recent ruling by the Supreme court in McDonald v. Chicago used an incorrect means to a correct end?

Or how about we start with how you intend to reverse Statism if by appealing to a centralized power triumvirate? Take back the White House and Congress? What about the Supreme Court, which rules based on precedent cases which can be shown to be based on ridiculous and twisted logic vs. actual constitutional principles?

How do you plan to re-educate the Justices? How do you now who you get to replace the bums in DC won’t be bums themselves?

Tell me where and we can begin there.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 

Ah, but read why

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 3:40PM EST (link)

I “wavered”: http://tinyurl.com/2atqdoq

Word of the day: Realpolitik

I’m amazed at the textbook example of the concept of group think. Somebody differs from you in opinion and the result is a group attack that attacks the person and provides no counter-argument. It’s actually a bit neurotic.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

what are you talking about?? you virutally called Mullins a rapist

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:04PM EST (link)

in your little “I hate Red State” rant at your blog.

yeah, dude. internet has a very long memory.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh Please

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:43PM EST (link)

That’s a stretch of the imagination even for you Veronica. A metaphor used in an argument does not equate the target of that metaphor with any referent in the metaphor unless the connection is explicitly stated. And it was not an I hate Redstate rant. I never mentioned Redstate or Mullins. You did. It was you who obviously wants the connection to be made. I was using one example among many without making references to sites or people because I was making a generic point.

Keep stretching. Again, it all plays in the groupthink I am beginning to note here, and it always seems to be the same group of people.

Why can’t the points themselves be addressed? Ask yourself that.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

you liar

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:48PM EST (link)

you’re a mofo.

you know you cut Mullin’s comment from one of your last posts and said “a conservative site,” meaning Redstate.

“It was you who obviously wants the connection to be made. ”

Plain as day, you freak.

Quit trying to kiss ass, ball up and fess up!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Read my comment again

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:56PM EST (link)

I did not deny the reference. I stated I did not put the reference in words. You are making the connection explicit, not me. I never mention a name or person explicitly. You do.

Quit jumping to conclusions.

And I never kiss up. Ever.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

typical progressive spin -- you take your readers for numbnuts?

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:10PM EST (link)

wow, you’re just like them — it’s verifiable and certifiable.

And just like your using the Austin Chronicle as a source against Perry, you’re trying to weasel with symantics.

You called out RedState, you moron.

You could have said “someone’s effing mother whom I really, really hate” — anyone could have GOOGLED THE PHRASING and seen it was back-linked to RedState!!

-SO-

Since we’re not as conservative as you think, we’re obviously a sucky conservative site that doesn’t know its Constitution, we’re worthless as a community to help spread democracy — what the hell are you doing here?

.. aside from getting your chops busted so you can change your mind about Perry?

Did you reference RedState for your conversion?

To be honest, I wouldn’t know if you did — I quit reading your brand of trash.

Save yourself. Edit now and insert credit to RedState while you have a chance.

I’m bored .. moving on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Streeeetching.

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:12PM EST (link)

n/t

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

for the hubby only

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:17PM EST (link)

jackoff.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Where the heck is Thomas?

Tbone (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:52PM EST (link)

He wouldn’t have put up with this.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

what is it

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 10:06PM EST (link)

Tbone?

You need a little “attention” too?

Guys around here can say “WTF” in a fit of passion and what? You won’t offer a woman the opportunity to “measure up”?

I think we just moved beyond Merits’ asinine theory of group think, doncha think?

He has a problem moving beyond his own blog, FB pages and nullification forums — he deserves every smack he gets.

Like I tell my children: Don’t Interrupt!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm sure your hubby is well versed. nt

Tbone (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 10:09PM EST (link)

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

 

My God

GJ Merits (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 12:32AM EST (link)

You literally must be about 10 years old. Jackoff? My teenage niece has more class and could comeback with a better putdown than that. What’s next, a strawberry with your tongue sticking out followed by nah-ne-nah-ne-boo-boo?

And smack? I have yet to feel a single one of what you may think is a smack.

Don’t interrupt? What, are we supposed to all bow down to your commands? There but by the grace of God goes God, is that it?

Tbone, I do have a habit of allowing myself to be dragged into the sandbox with the children sometimes. Never allow someone to shut you up or back down unless it is your own decision. I play the game until I grow tiresome of it. Every now and then I check back with a simple comment about nullfication and it does not take a genius to pick out who will attack and in what order. There are some who are interested in actual debate on the subject and see its utility. Others just point and namecall. I’m beginning to think its some kind of odd neurotic psychosis. It’s like high school cliques but with adults. Funny actually and a bit entertaining if not a little odd.

There is probably a sociological case study here for some grad student or PhD candidate. It’s like a single word is uttered and the usual suspects lose their senses in a predictable and highly irrational manner. I mean the comment below “GJ puts down mirror and picks up toilet wipe” is probably one of the most childish things I have ever seen uttered or written by an adult. It almost defies explanation.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

We'd like to be nicer to you but this seems being nicer to you would never work

Richard Mullins (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 12:39AM EST (link)

So we have to be honest about how about you. Sort of like my late Grandmother that would tell those that she didn’t like to their face. Brutally honest is the only way to go.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 

I'm sorry, Merits.

Veronica (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 1:39AM EST (link)

When I said you were still on the pot, I was referencing what you publicly said about Perry. I thought you’d remember:

http://www.facebook.com/TexasTenthAmendmentCenter?v=wall&story_fbid=124024894307837

“forget about me buying into any “promise” that after the election he’ll stand up for Texas crap….Crap or get off the pot. I’ll buy the Perry nullification argument when I see him act, … I say girlie-man until proven otherwise.”

“.. it just won’t matter if Perry or White are in power..”

So, girlie-man for Perry ..and you can’t handle “jackoff” in response to your sort of smearin’.

I think you don’t like being told off by a girl.

You’re excuse for not getting out of the sandbox doesn’t work because experience with you tells us you ALWAYS like to have the last word. Even on your little FB threads.

Have at it, bub.

Happy hatin’.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh please Veronica.

mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 1:48AM EST (link)

I haven’t paid much attention to this but you’ve got bigger brains and bigger balls than GJ Meritless.

Then It's Obvious

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 4:15PM EST (link)

That by your conclusions and your own admission that you have not paid too much attention to this.

And did you come up with Meritless all by yourself? Very impressive and orgininal. I’d like to leave you with one thought … but I’m not sure you have a place to put it.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Credibility out the wazoo.

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:00PM EST (link)

http://www.wolvesofliberty.com/2010/07/07/redistribution-of-power-not-wealth-part-i/

I re-posted my article on a major conservative website and was stunned to see the parallels between what Obama thinks the Constitution allows him to do and what many conservatives believe the Constitution says about state’s rights vs. the federal government. This YouTube video exposes Obama’s complete ignorance of the Constitution as he clearly states his belief the founding document does not tell the federal government what it must do on your behalf. Contrast this with a comment on the “conservative” website in question to my post concerning Perry:

I’ve been tired of you for quite a while now. Since [this] is a Federal vs State Issue, he has to defer to the Feds to stop it. The issue of the EPA killing TCEQ permits only now shows something else and the answer is not send the EPA packing but to work with them… [Mullins' comment, taken from Merits' post]

When I read that last comment I almost suffered a case of whiplash. While it certainly can be tiresome for some to hear the truth, that was not the statement that grabbed my attention. Rather, I was taken aback when I read the words defer to the feds


Other feedback attacked my references as dated, accused me of being a liberal, called me a troll, an idiot, and the usual general attacks one receives when their intellectual guns dwarf the tiny pistols of their detractors. It would be funny if it were not so sad that some conservatives have no inkling of what the constitution actually says and insist on following the same tired old tactics of the past that never work and never will work.

..
I guess the author of the above comment believes a victim of rape should be accommodating and work with the rapist.”

***

Merits, you’re a big baby, a liar and maybe unstable.

So, I’m done, but not before reminding you that it’s YOU who are sullying the nullification argument.

You’re turning it into backwater.

Nullification needs something other than your corrupt voice.

I see you’re also pro-Perry now:

“A Second Look At Rick Perry And Why I Will Vote For Him”

http://www.wolvesofliberty.com/2010/07/14/a-second-look-at-rick-perry-and-why-i-will-vote-for-him/

You were adamantly against him, slandering him in your posts and now you’ve flip-flopped.

We could probably expect much the same from you and nullification.

Again, your credibility is shot.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Credibility intact and doing just fine

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:11PM EST (link)

I changed my mind as far as how I attacked Perry and found it was over the top. I was never not a Perry supporter. Read the article.

The mark of intelligence is the ability to see your errors and admit them. My error was being a bit over-the-top in my critique of Perry. It was a conclusion I came to, so don’t pat yourself on the back thinking you had anything to do with it. Wouldn’t want to bust your bubble.

Read what you call the pro-Perry piece. I am not showering affection Perry’s direction, but stating he is the best choice. Again, jumping to conclusions. You do that a lot.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 

BUA-HAHAHA!

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:14PM EST (link)

I lied — I just read the first two lines of your “I really like Perry now” post:

“It’s not often that I find myself admitting I’m wrong. Not because I don’t want to – I believe one must be as honest in critiquing themselves as they are others – but because I actually am rarely wrong. ”

oh, GAWD!

The groupies are assembling!

You’re so full of it! You’re channeling George Castanza!

Thanks for the laughs, Merits!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And The Second Sentence Reads:

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:55PM EST (link)

The reader is encouraged to read the end of the previous statement with a little tongue-in-cheek – sort of.

Having a little trouble with that grasping a little intellectual wink-wink, nod-nod are we?

It’s only two sentences. Come on, you can do it. You know you can. Just. One. More. Sentence.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

History?

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 3:35PM EST (link)

Awwww. You guys just hate the fact nullification is picking up steam and is the only way to really win back power from the Federal government.

With IMF predictions of our debt to exceed GDP in 2012, you think winning elections is going to actually shrink the size of government fast enough to save us? Some good stuff your smoking there.

While there are too many examples of nullification to list here, your statement that “The best thing we could do for Democrats would be to turn into fringe, freako nullifiers” is a little late – its already happening. Oklahoma, Arizona, and Florida have constitutional amendments on the ballot in November to nullify the ObamaCare mandate, and that is just the start. The horse is out of the gate and a far truer statement is “The best thing we could do for Democrats would be convince everyone to stick to a strategy that has never worked and label those who push for a strategy with actual historical utility as frekos”. Plays right into their hands and they don’t have to lift a finger or break a sweat. You can do all the work for them.

History?:

Alien and Sedition Acts that lead to the principles of ’98

Use of principles of ’98 by states that originally resisted Jefferson’s nullification document during the Embargo of 1807–1809

Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 – Abolitionists favored nullification

Military Conscription of Minors

South Carolina’s Nullification Ordinance voided the Tariffs of 1828
and 1832

Calling up the militia to invade Canada during the War of 1812

Medicinal Marijuana

Real ID

Montana’s “Firearms Freedom Act”

And a whole lot more. Nullification – its the new cool.

Redistribution of power – not wealth. That is what works.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

*GJ sets down mirror, picks up toilet-wipe*

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:05PM EST (link)

You still haven’t gotten off the pot.

yuk.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Let me be clear, Merits

Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:10PM EST (link)

We’re not laughing with you.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

The Right To Nullify This Government

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:13PM EST (link)

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37967

“The rebirth of nullification is not welcome news to everyone. MSNBC and the New York Times do not want us to say or do these things. They like the situation just the way it is: we make lots of noise, and they rack up the victories. They are happy if we persist in the same failed and flawed strategy that has gotten us exactly nowhere. I for one would prefer not to give them the satisfaction.

It’s fine to hold conferences, write letters to the editor, and sign petitions. But at some point it becomes morally (and practically) necessary to do more than just wring our hands about the behavior of the federal government. At some point we in our states must say: we are not going to do it. Never did I suspect that the American people would grow angry and politically aware enough to put these great principles back on the table. Ideas I once covered as a historian I am now discussing as a commentator on current events. This is the healthiest development in American politics I have seen in my life. Everyone reading these words owes it to the cause of freedom to be a part of it. We have been played for fools long enough.”

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Look, the idiot is at it again

Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:20PM EST (link)

I propose we team up and watch out for this guy. Every time he posts this idiocy, we reply and let people know we think he’s a Grade A Moron.

He’s genuinely an embarrassment to the Red State commentariat.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

Ah, that groupthink again

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:36PM EST (link)

Case closed: http://www.redstate.com/garybentley/2010/07/13/revolution-or-civil-war-the-choice-is-ours/#comment-98

Don’t dare disagree with us. We might actually have to sustain a line of argument with facts.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Go back to Russia (nt)

Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:41PM EST (link)

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

Huh?

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:45PM EST (link)

That supposed to be clever or something.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Greetings Comrade

Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:49PM EST (link)

I know to Communists like you, the American way of having elections is hard to understand and may look like “groupthink,” but it’s much better than a Politburo of nullifiers.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

Sigh

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:57PM EST (link)

No rebuttals. It’s like debating my dead grandmother.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 
 
 
 
 

Here is a crazy idea, Mr. Merits

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 6:15PM EST (link)

Why don’t we win some elections? Then stick to conservative principles when it is our turn to govern?

I mean, heck, we ought to try it at least once…

Because Jack

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 4:07PM EST (link)

Statism is due to three branches of government – not one. Elections don’t help when the Supreme Court – even its conservative members – base their opinions on precedent that can be traced back to very seriously flawed “interpretations” of the constitution – namely the Marshall Court.

Elections don’t fix Statism. Unless the SCOTUS decides to actually look at the constitution and apply it based upon the actual constiution then you are basically screwed no matter who you put in. The strongest arm of the government is not the Congress or the President, but the SCOTUS who serve for life.

Exit question: What was wrong with the recent Chicago gun law majority opinion? The end result was good, but the means to that end – the way the conclusion was reached, was very flawed. Research it and tell me what it is. Then tell me you feel comfortable that Statism can be reversed by elections – which, by the way, have never happened in the past. You can’t point to a single time government shrank. Even under Reagan.

You want to change the chess pieces on the board. I want to change the rules of the game as well as the pieces. Your approach has been tried – over and over and over. It has never worked. Nullification has worked in the past and present. Look at my comment above that starts with the Principles of ’98 and then moves through to modern times. Nullification works – elections don’t. It could not be put any simpler than that.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Nullification works

Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 4:56PM EST (link)

Sure it works. Here is my problem. You propose to use a nuclear weapon, with the only caveat being that as soon as you use it, the other side gets one to use against you. I prefer detente’ in lieu of Mutual Assured Destruction at this point in the game.

Will elections reverse statism? I believe they can, but history is no guide – reversing statism has never been a real issue in a national election before, and the closest that we came was when Ronald Reagan was elected in two landslides.

We are winning. When our ideas are articulated confidently, we win. There is an appetite in this country for what we propose, and I prefer to see what choices the American people make in the next two elections.

The time for nullification may come, but in my view it will be the end of this country as we know it. There may be a day when that is not a bad thing, and I am not afraid of that day if it comes, but that is what using the nuke of nullification means. It is that serious, and we should not discuss it in any other terms.

Well said, Jack_Savage

JSobieski (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 5:25PM EST (link)

It is not conservative to quickly dislodge all that has been built in choosing the option of nullification. Frankly, as long as people are still free to talk online about nullification, I don’t think it is appropriate to talk about it.

All earthly things end, but I would rather try and fail to save things then succeed in undoing so much of what is good.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

I could not say it better than this

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 6:17PM EST (link)

Whether they want us to or not: http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/07/09/whether-they-want-us-to-or-not/

As I stated below, keeping what is good equates to keeping Statism – which is not good. To dislodge Statism will be painful, but the end result will more liberty. This is a good thing.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Most revolutions end badly. The American Revolution was unique.

JSobieski (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 8:40PM EST (link)

Our odds are far better working within the system then to tear the system down. Ever read a Man for all Seasons? Sir Thomas Moore (patron saint of lawyers) had some insightful things to say about tearing down all of the laws in order to pursue good ends. He thought it better to die than to do so.

Its not the “unknown” I fear—history makes clear who tends to prevail in periods of lawlessness, its the loud punks who protest G-8 meetings, not the parents and grandparents who attend tea party rallies.

We had a period of upheaval in the 60s, and that was a period of advancement for the other side—NOT US.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

It Does Not Tear The System Down

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 11:49PM EST (link)

I am not talking about revolution. I am talking nullification. The principles of ’98 were used many times in the past without breaking the system down. It is almost as if we are talking about two different things. I can’t seem to break the mental picture that nullification is not the some civil war or armed conflict.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Because nullification could easily become the beginning

JSobieski (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 11:55PM EST (link)

of something far more shocking to the system.

Remember, that there was nothing inherently violent in the South wanting to nullify its ties to the US and that there was nothing inherently violent in the colonists wanting to nullify their relationship to England.

Nullification is a can of worms I would prefer not to open.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

What if it turns out to be the only solution?

GJ Merits (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 1:35PM EST (link)

The reality is that in order to reverse Statism you can’t just win elections. You must have all three branches of the federal government agree to abrogate power back to the people, the most powerful branch being the judicial under the SCOTUS. This is just not going to happen. If the IMF is correct and we are heading towards a fiscal cliff in 2012, then if I had a choice to face that cliff or open that can of worms, I’d open the can. What do you have to lose? Fiscal collapse or nullification? Why not give it a try or at least give it a serious look.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Is this bozo still yammering on?

Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 1:37PM EST (link)

Guys, email me if he gets especially stupid and gets openly traitorous, will you?

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

 

Its not the only solution, and I did give it a serious look

JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 1:45PM EST (link)

nt

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

 
 
 

I favor civil disobedience before states attempt actual nullification

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 12:17AM EST (link)

Have citizens act en masse rather than a state. Citizens are the flesh and blood victims of demlib econ and other policies and are more easily identified with and seen as such than an amorphous “Vermont”, for example. The suffering of the people of a state get personified in the media with a Governor that has a job. The GOP needs to learn the use the moral high ground card, present real victims and favor the underdog. Americans love all that.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

I favor using the right tool for the job.. not grabbing a hammer when what I need is a typewriter...

acat (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 12:41AM EST (link)

Yes, nullification – both via statehouse law and via civil disobedience have their places.

Many changes in our country were brought about by civil disobedience – boycotts and sit-ins and strikes – we can use these tactics just as effectively (I suspect more effectively…) than the libs – and I think they know it.

That’s the hammer – and there will be a time to reach for it. For example, the funds and “chatter” Red State and other conservative web sites raised this year have helped get solid conservative candidates into a number of races. Without us, Charlie Crist would be taking his victory lap in Florida, Bob Bennett would be taking another victory lap in Utah, and Scott Brown would be a historical footnote in Massachusetts.

What’s needed right now are the keen eyes and sharp minds that can help the rest of us (and I’m just another “rest of us”) know where to drop our individual hammers for maximum impact.

Mr. Gamecock, what general type of civil disobedience are we hypothetically talking about here?

Mew

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GC on civil disobedience

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 11:33AM EST (link)

http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Atlanta-Law–Politics-Examiner~topic549477-civil-disobedience?selstate=allcat#breadcrumb

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

see also Manhattan Declaration

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 11:37AM EST (link)

http://www.manhattandeclaration.org/home.aspx

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

I called for cv re oil drilling 3-4 years ago when Dems filibustered

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 11:38AM EST (link)

expanded oil drilling under Bush

And I favor mass refusals to pay ObamaCare tax

more to come

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Thank you, GC - much to read.

acat (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 12:57PM EST (link)

My question on not paying the Obamacare tax is whether it can be determined, ahead of time, how the IRS is likely to react…

Mew

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Caveat Suffragator

A Good Amount of Reading

GJ Merits (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 1:20PM EST (link)

Great stuff. Lot’s of material.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 

Mike

GJ Merits (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 1:40PM EST (link)

I’m right there with you and have written about civil disobedience a great deal. To me it is a viable approach. American Spectator just did an interview with Thomas Woods: http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/20/just-say-no/

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

thx GJM' - I'll read yours this week - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, July 21st at 10:46AM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Mike DeVine

GJ Merits (Diary) Wednesday, July 21st at 3:23PM EST (link)

There is a video floating around FB and on the Manhattan Declaration site that you refer to above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkf1N1Ro3Sc. Interesting start. Here is a good companion article that I believe extends the argument further: http://tinyurl.com/y9j6nue.

The article begins to make the case that would extend the Manhattan Declaration to include more than just the First Amendment. Just as Paul appealed to Caesar under Roman law, the case is made that, given the Supremacy of God, the belief that Christians must passively follow the rules even if those very rules are oppressive is contradicted in many biblical cases and a Christian, in the execution of their duties as Christians, can and should appeal to earthly laws (in our case the Constitution).

The video’s reference to MLK provides an excellent example. This Declaration looks like it is heading in the right direction but is fairly limited in scope at this time. Your thoughts?

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

great find - will review - looks like what I have been hoping for, for 3 years and esp

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, July 21st at 4:28PM EST (link)

the last 18 months

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Detente' Equates To Business As Usual

GJ Merits (Diary) Monday, July 19th at 5:40PM EST (link)

From a guy who was right there with Reagan (policy advisor) and worked to get the Reagan Tax cuts passed by putting them inside a fishing excise tax bill (genius) and helped write a great swath of the Contract with American, Dr. Larry Hunter has two very interesting posts on the subject that do not even bring into the equation the issue of the Supreme Court. These two posts alone in dealing with the Congress throw cold water on any belief that detente’ will do anything other than alternative between the slow and quick march towards socialism.

PastNullification did not did not end the world as we know it. This idea that this is some nuclear button is something being pushed around by the detractors of this very strategy. I like what Barry Goldwater has to say about Thomas E. Woods’ book on Nullifiction in the 21st century: “This book is a must read for all who respect and cherish liberty. During these times that challenge our freedoms there is no one more qualifed to make U.S. history relevant to the fight against big government than Thomas Woods”

Nullification the the boat that is sailing and its people’s understanding of the process that is making this a reality. It is not easy, but neither is it the boogeyman everyone is trying to make it out to be.

You are right – it will be the end of this country as we know it. It wil be the end of Statism, it will be the end of the meme of federal supremacy and the return to constituional governance. It will be the end of a federal judiciary that legislates from the bench. It will be the free market of governing principles spread across fifty states. It will be liberty and freedom the likes of which we have not seen for over two centuries. I implore you to read the book. Refute the facts if you find them wanting. Look at what our founders intended in their wisdom and look forward to that day when this country ends as you know it. I don’t like what this country has become and will continue to become.

We’ll be better off – not worse. This is real change, with real hope. It is the end of the other people deciding what to do with your money. It is the brining of power back into the hands of the people. Sure, there will be some states that won’t fit our conservative ideology, but guess what – look at California and look at Texas. What better way to show which approach to governing is best? It will be there for all to see. Liberal states can only continue to exist because conservative states are there to pay for them. Here are the links from the Social Security Institute:

The Soft Despotism of Democratic Fascism: http://www.socialsecurityinstitute.com/blog_post/show/505

Who Lost Healthcare?: http://www.socialsecurityinstitute.com/blog_post/show/487

Throw into the mix his monumental effort with special interest groups and look at the DISCLOSE Act and ObamaCare (AARP, AMA, and Pro-life groups) and you begin to get the following sense: All three branches and most special interest groups cannot be trusted as allies to the cause of reducing the size of government. How, in your opinion, and the legislative branch, acting on its own or in tandem with the executive branch, reduce the size of govenrment absent the SCOTUS?

P.S. Thank you for debating this issue in a serious manner. It is greatly appreciated. The best way to forge a strategy is to hear detractors who require you to defend your position. It helps me to move forward. In the process, it may be that I convince you to give it a serious look. I ask you keep in mind the following: IMF predicts our debt to exceed GDP by 2012. Large entitlement programs have a great deal of intertia and momentum and are very hard to reverse. It’s never be done in fact. More accurately, any large government program is hard to reverse once set in motion. Time is not on our side and electoral politics take time. That, coupled with the understanding that government cannot shrink unless all federal branches agree to shrink it is what lead me to finally understand why nullification is so critical and important.

The goal is not more Statism under our ideology, because that won’t last, soon their ideology will win the day. Even if the SCOTUS somehow restores state powers, it will not always be the same SCOTUS. The same applies to all three branches. That is why our founders intended the states to have the powers we no longer have. The second chapter in Dr. Woods book describes very cleary just how the Supremacy, Commerce, and General Welfare Clauses were usurped to fit the need for greater federal supremacy. He smashes apart any argument that any current or precedent setting ruling on any of these clauses in any way meets the sprit or the letter of what our founders intended.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

OK, let's go over some "what if's"

Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, July 20th at 6:13PM EST (link)

What if Phoenix, Arizona is attacked by armed drug dealers from Mexico, who then seek and are given refuge in California?

What if Wyoming decided to allow condo development in all parts of Yellowstone National Park, including the edge of Old Faithful?

What if Virginia enacts a $100 per vehicle toll on I-95?

What if all guns are completely outlawed in Illinois, and late term abortions are allowed in Delaware?

What if married gay couples are jailed automatically in New York?

Unintended consequences and catastrophe. Remember, as far as being States United as opposed to fifty little fiefdoms, “If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.”

 
 
 
 
 
 

Ridicule is the first and last argument of the desperate

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:03PM EST (link)

“First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.”

“Ridicule has historically proven itself a rickety fence for great ideas.”

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Alinsky would disagree with you on that...

acat (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 5:19PM EST (link)

He advised fixing a target and mocking the {excrement} out of it, IIRC.

Mew

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Ah, only works with people who can't fight back

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 6:00PM EST (link)

And I take it your comment is tongue-in-cheek and not representative of some new conservative tactic. Or is it? Bwahahahahahah!

Kidding. No I’m not. Yes I am – sort of.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Just pointing out that you're mistaken about when to resort to mockery, GJ.

acat (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 9:55PM EST (link)

The beauty of the Alinsky tactic is that it can be used by conservatives as well as liberals – in fact, since liberals have no sense of humor (and as evidence I cite Al Franken) conservatives can do even better.

In your case, though, your whole “nullification” thing is not gaining traction, and your efforts to keep flogging it around here are actually reducing its’ ability to gain traction later on. Ground’s getting all soggy from the blood from that dead horse, if you will….

Have a nice day.

Mew

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acat

GJ Merits (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 12:10AM EST (link)

It will gain traction and already has. The day will arrive when the dead horse that is being beaten will be recognized as the tired old tactics of the past. When people begin to realize that government has never shrank and to stop the growth of government – which differs only by degree between the parties – would require the Congress, Executive Branch, and Supreme Court to magically wake up on day and hand power back to the states. That is never going to happen no matter who you put in office. And time is running out. With projections of the debt/GDP ratio exceeding 1 by 2012-2014, the slow march of electoral politics, coupled with the sheer lack of depenency of elected officials will make it very clear a course correction is required. I can only hope it will not be too late.

This is not something I can give up on.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

GJ, while I can respect dedication, I can also mourn for Don

acat (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 1:00AM EST (link)

You know, tall guy, kinda skinny, expert horseman. Usually has his right hand guy around somewhere. Has a thing for lost causes.

Nullification is only effective if enough states decide to ignore a law, and even then it doesn’t get rid of the law, it just effectively removes the punishment.

For example, right after the national experiment with a 55 mile per hour speed limit ended, I was asked if it would affect how fast I could get from my home to my college. I laughed, and said that it wouldn’t matter a bit as I never drove the speed limit.

There are similar stories from every national experiment in law enforcement. My aunts and uncles talked about Prohibition – the Chicago side of the family – and how they always knew who had the best booze brought in from Canada, and the police paid to look the other way.

There’s a couple ways to implement a nullification.

The first is to overwhelm the enforcers, i.e. if everyone is doing 70 in a 55 zone, the cops have to pull *everyone* over or get nailed themselves for selective enforcement. This works reasonably well at laws where the crime is popular, enforcement is spotty, and where the punishment is tolerable. Had the punishment for breaking the speed limit been seizure of vehicles or amputation of drivers’ toes, it would be a different story.

The second is to bribe the enforcers. Prohibition proved this works very well where there’s a profit to be made breaking the law, and especially if the law is seen as unfair or foolish.

None of this has the power to obviate, for instance, Obamacare. Why? Because the enforcement is via the IRS – and that means the punishment isn’t spotty, nor is it tolerable.

Finally, nullification at the state level is not something the Fed is going to tolerate – just watch the Fed cut off the education block transfers, or the highway fund, all the while enforcing IRS penalties against the citizens.

So, while the word nullification sounds good, I’m afraid you’re after a windmill.

Mew

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Here's some good followers for you, GJMerits:

Achance (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:09PM EST (link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAGdoBcnjWQ&NR=1

Some supporters of the officially Red State endorsed candidate for Senator from Alaska. ‘Course, if he wins, the nobody that the Ds were running will be off the ballot in a millisecond and the Ds will substitute Knowles or Ulmer and the Red State ambition of two Democrat senators from Alaska will have been realized.

In Vino Veritas

Wow, that's a hard game to play

GJ Merits (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 4:33PM EST (link)

Let’s see if I’m any good at it. Requires intellectual strain: no. Rational thought: no. Rebuttals to arguments: no. Oh, it’s too easy.

Here are some followers for you: http://tinyurl.com/269llbs

Did not even break a sweat.

Man, that group think label is right on target:

1. Illusion of invulnerability –Creates excessive optimism that encourages taking extreme risks (like assuming elections will lead to smaller government when they never have and thereby dooming us all to a socialist hell).

2. Collective rationalization – Members discount warnings and do not reconsider their assumptions.

3. Belief in inherent morality – Members believe in the rightness of their cause and therefore ignore the ethical or moral consequences of their decisions.

4. Stereotyped views of out-groups – Negative views of “enemy” make effective responses to conflict seem unnecessary (right on the money there)

5. Direct pressure on dissenters – Members are under pressure not to express arguments against any of the group’s views. (Seen that one).

6. Self-censorship – Doubts and deviations from the perceived group consensus are not expressed (except by those daring enough to do so).

7. Illusion of unanimity – The majority view and judgments are assumed to be unanimous. Yep, check that box as well.

8. Self-appointed ‘mindguards’

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

Hmmm...brilliant - let's see if I can play

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 8:40PM EST (link)

Acting Like A Jackass

1) Proposes a notion that on its best day, is only barely within the farthest fringe of a school of thought and would be a catastrophe should, say, the right win an election or two and enact policies unpopular with semi-socialist blue states like CA because – duh – if Texas can do it, so can California

2) When many others disagree, because of – well, see #1 – accuse them of “group think”

3) Ride that horse, looking a lot like Napoleon, until you are banned

4) Whine on personal blog regarding fascists on RedState

5) Suddenly begin to look an awful lot like the libs we are all supposed to be fighting

Wow I go to my day job for a day, come back

cactusjack Friday, July 16th at 10:17PM EST (link)

and hardly recognize the place. I guess it’s time to clean up the bar and pay the owner for the damage. Anyway, what I was trying to conclude yesterday evening, I think while we are having a theoretical discussion, on shall I call it, political dissociation and other acts of sovereign governments, – which is fine and necessary, it makes us examine the heartstrings of the Constitution – something we don’t quite understand because it doesn’t have a formal name, is happeneing through Obama. I have been trying to coin a name for it:
maybe “inverse secession”? or “federal exclusion”? it is the federal govt, not the state, which initiates political and financial action which have the effect of disenfranchising a targetted state in comparison to the other states in the Union. To the point they must respond with fiscal or constitutional action on their own to maintain status quo. Whatever it’s called, Obama is doing it, and he has started with two Gulf States as object lessons for the rest to watch and learn.

 

California already has

GJ Merits (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 12:42AM EST (link)

And the whole purpose of nullification is to have 50 states exercised their right to self governance. Call it the free-market idea. 50 experiments. Is that not the best system? And yes, states should have the right to resist right or left policies. That’s how our founders intended it. It is not a fringe idea – it is a forgotten idea.

Who wins. Progressives or conservatives? Which states do most people end up wanting to live in? My money is on conservatism.

Nullfiication is not partisan. Physican assisted suicide – already exists. Medicinal marijuana – already exists. ObamaCare type health care systems in some states – already exists.

Your missing the entire point of nullification.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

What you're describing isn't nullification, but the Laboratories of Democracy [nt]

acat (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 1:04AM EST (link)

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You are an idiot

conservativecrusade (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 1:38AM EST (link)

and that has been proven many times and I am sure you will try the “group think” crap, but outside all all that has been said here your nullification idea may be legitimate, but void of reality.

And here are just a few issues with it.

In order for nullification to work, you would not only have to have a vast majority of the states join in the effort, you would have to have enough agreement inside the state in order to be able to bring enough support behind a troop movement. If just one thing fails, the process fails. If the states National Guard does not follow the order to defend the state against fed invasion, you fail. This is not even accounting for the possible dissent among the ranks due to political sway or the refusal to raise arms against fellow state citizens, fellow Americans, and the fed government. This is most likely on of the biggest hurdles to jump.

A glaring example of states actions not backing up their mouths is the Nullification crisis. The 1828 and 1832 Tariff was pissing off the entire south and much of New England. The states talked a good game, sort of like you, yet when it came down to actually doing something, ie nullification, only SC stood up and backed up their words. Jackson made it clear this action would not be tolerated, would have took action had not cooler heads prevailed, and in the end SC took the best way out by agreeing to the compromise. The compromise was not much better than the original beef. Now how would history refer to that time had Jackson not backed off his hard line and had SC not backed off as well. It would have been a disaster for SC and this country.

Now this was the reaction to SC’s actions from it most ardent supporters when talk was talk.

The Alabama legislature, for example, pronounced the doctrine “unsound in theory and dangerous in practice.” Georgia said it was “mischievous,” “rash and revolutionary.” Mississippi lawmakers chided the South Carolinians for acting with “reckless precipitancy.”

The next “nullification” came with the civil war. And to keep this long post as short as possible, I will only say we all know how that turned out and how much it cost this country, But what is most important about the civil war, is we lost. And many a good man died for that nullification attempt.

Plain and simple, nullification is not an option in any way shape or form. It is a fools desire and a fools direction. Way too many things would have to happen in perfect unity in order for it to even have a chance and that would never happen. No way you get enough states to support it and even if you did, no way each states militia or NG unifies in action against the feds, no way they have the resources the fed has, no way a majority of the troops would raise arms against the fellow state and country citizens (as the fed government would force all states reg enlisted to fight with the feds), no way the states would get a majority of support amongst its own states citizens or politicians, etc etc etc .

The only thing nullification would bring is a useless show of disent and eventual backing off by the states when it gets ready to blow. And even if the states involved had the desire and readiness to not back off, it would end in total chaos and the destruction of the states involved. All states involved would come under fed control as soon as the rebellion is ended.

The only thing you are doing here is stating pipe dreams. You are doing nothing but showing your arrogance, ignorance, and unwillingness to back down off a stupid argument. Reality is, nullification is not the answer, it is not even a valid thought.

There may come a day where we have to raise arms, and if that day comes many will die, but it will not be through nullification, it will be through many different groups coming together with no state to call home.

The answer for now is to use the voting booth to take out the dems one by one. The next step is to force our republican reps to do the right thing and if they do not, get rid of them. And as it says on most shampoo bottles, repeat as often as needed. That is the only way out of this mess and the only words anyone needs to know are vote them out and accountability.

“The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” — Alexis de Tocqueville

If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting. — Curtis LeMay

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington

Apathy and a lack of historical perspective

GJ Merits (Diary) Sunday, July 18th at 11:41PM EST (link)

Nothing you wrote fits the historical precedent of nullification – past or present. You don’t even make a reference to state tax escrow accounts. You lack any understanding of the issue and yet call me an idiot. You must like to think a lot – it seems to clear your mind.

Nullification is picking up steam – a lot of it. Three states with constitutional amendments on the ballot in November is pretty serious stuff.

As Thomas Woods, the author of Nullification – How to Resist Tyranny in the 21st Century writes:

“So far, most conservative radio and television hosts have shied away from the issue. That’s a shame, to be sure, but it doesn’t change much. The Tea Party folks are going to nullify with or without them. Within six months these same media personalities will be huffing and puffing to catch up with what has been going on right under their noses.”

Perhaps you should read the book before oversimplifying the concept and leaving out the success (SC did it all by its little lonesome with no help at all) of past nullification attempts, you would be far less likely to call someone an idiot.

This is a post about possible Civil War for crying out loud. Am I the only one who sees the disconnect in logic here? If you think your dissertation and personal insult concerning a debate about a method to avoid civil war somehow makes you an asset, I can only say you are off by two letters.

Nullification is the middle ground before such a drastic step is taken. It sounds more to me like the ones who are the drum beaters of outright rebellion are the detractors of nullification who have spent about 10 minutes looking into what exactly it is and how is has been, is being, and will be used.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 

Let me say this

Jack_Savage (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 9:53AM EST (link)

In my view, secession would be more legitimate than nullification.

The dilemma is valid, however – what do states who have been disenfranchised DO? Sadly, the reason that we haven’t had this discussion before is that the federal government and its leaders did not treat states differently depending on how they voted in the last Presidential election.

 
 

Wow

GJ Merits (Diary) Sunday, July 18th at 11:47PM EST (link)

Drinking somebody’s Kool Aid. I never called Redsate facist on either of my blogs – EVER. I never mentioned Redstate by name except to praise Erick – http://www.wolvesofliberty.com/?s=redstate&x=0&y=0

Use Google cache search to convince yourself I did not change anything.

I merely used an example of a comment directed at me to make a point without calling out the commenter by name or identifying this site.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison

If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.

To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

5! to Texasgalt for "If we win ... If we fail ..."

CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 9:52PM EST (link)

In the meantime–and this is a plea to the general readership–there is still opportunity for old-fashioned persuasion at the point of a … handshake* … a lot more opportunity in some places than some folks** are even aware of.

* h/t VB
** irrespective of side

Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)

soli Deo gloria

Thanks for the h/t, Cinco..

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 7:54AM EST (link)

I’ve enjoyed this line of talk very much. Interestingly, what most people haven’t noticed, is that beginning with the action in Little Rock, the race game beginning moving north of the Mason-Dixon line. It allowed the “handshake” as you use so effectively to begin working its magic.

There is a deeper reason in that, which touches on something txgalt wrote about the effective show of power in Little Rock. There is a branch of animal behavior science called ethology, Konrad Lorenz one if its early founders. They concluded that there is a kind of “primal guilt”, based mostly on territory, so that when an animal is doing something his instincts says is wrong or tabu, suhc as invade the territory of another, he will not fight with the same ferocity as he would 1) on common ground and especially 2) in defending his own turf. Dr King convinced me, by invoking God, that a majority of southerners simply could not summon the 125% outrage required to fight back against Ike’s National Guard. The scene was therefore repeated, at ole Miss and Alabama.

Let the handshaking commence, for the Chicago born black comedian in that period said, when he was still doing stand up, that in the South they didn’t care how close you got just so long as you didn’t get too big, while in the North they didn’t care how big you got just so long as you didn’t get too close.

Of the two philosophies, it’s easy now to see which is more amenable to the handshake and a slow, deliberate declaration of peace.

IN answer to Txgalt’s point, it remains to be seen if our love of the Liberty is of the lukewarm variety of most old southern Jim Crow institutions, or indeed is at that 125% percent fever pitch. I pray such confrontations never occur. But you poignant is as salient. I know there are bases for handshakes in the inner cities, but so very few, and how to exercise them? I hope greater minds than mine are inquiring as well. America will never be complete until it is done.

 
 

Tactics

edintexas Wednesday, July 14th at 8:08AM EST (link)

Let’s hope the worst possibilities never occur. But should the worst happen, you are correct that any militia (organized or otherwise) would not fare well against the regular military’s ability to bring firepower to the fight. But that assumes the militia is stupid enough to try and fight as if it were a “regular” force. We have ample examples of the difficulties regular forces have with insurgencies. And those examples come generally from countries in which the citizens have been disarmed (Afghanistan being an exception, at least in part). It would not be as easy as Little Rock, not by a long shot (no pun intended). The “Arkies” didn’t plan on armed resistance, no matter the ramblings of Orville Faubus and other racists.

 
 

This could be a rough one

handprop Tuesday, July 13th at 10:32PM EST (link)

At one point in my life I thought people shared the same thoughts and concerns as I did. I used to think it was a majority of the population who would stand up with me and fight. Over time I have learned a few lessons, people do care and they see our country going down the tubes but how many will stand up and fight? It pains me to say this but we are very, very far away from a revolution. Modern America is nothing like it was in the past….as far as emotions are concerned. The demographics have changed and it’s not in our favor. Yes, people want prosperity but few will pick up a pitchfork and fight back.

As some of you know I’m a business owner and a volunteer for a political campaign. I could write a book on what I have observed in the field of battle. When I go door to door 1 out of 20 or so people actually want to fight back and do something for America. It’s a sad state of affairs to be sure. What happened to the America my Grandpa told me about, what happened to the America he went to battle for during WWII? This was back in the day where everybody had a central concern for the health of our nation. What we have today is much different, we have citizens who choose to be disconnected to it’s government.

OK, so we have TEA parties and other Patriot groups but that’s not so easy either. I talk with a lot of these leaders and they are passionate and I love all of them…but is it enough?

The fact is, a revolution of any sort usually happens because circumstances have become unbearable. Is that where we are at? I doubt it.

As I walk door to door each and every person will complain….that’s a given, but again, they simply don’t see the problems as we do. Here on Redstate we have a high concentration of very passionate Patriots, and I would go to battle with all of you but we need to be carful in assuming everybody thinks like we do. I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand politics nearly as well as Vassar, EPU, Labor Union Report, Jaded, and the list keeps going and going, but what about the average Joe or Jane? After talking to hundreds maybe even thousands of people I believe they don’t have a clue as to what is really happening in our country.

We do have some light at the end of the tunnel though. Of all the people I talk with business owners seem to be the most active of the group. The see the problems first hand and because business owners are natural leaders they want to lead in greater numbers than the general population.

I grew up understanding marketing, nothing can trump good marketing. What I see as our biggest threat is the Democrats ability to market their cause. The can lie, and get away with it. They can talk about false hope and people buy it, they are able to do this because people are hurting and Obama can stand up and say the right things to his sheep.

As conservatives, what do we market? Are we able to sell it? Are people buying it? November could easily be just another month, we need to take this new leadership and force them to make real changes because they wont do it by themselves.

Marketing 101.

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, July 13th at 11:00PM EST (link)

As conservatives, what do we market?

The Constitution and Bill Of Rights of The United States.

a.k.a Freedom of the individual.

————-

Are we able to sell it?

It’s not for sale…….. Ever.

It’s also not free for anyone who wants it – not by a long shot…….. However, in truth, it’s the root essentials of free.

It’s also not subject to any alterations – ’tain’t a cheap suit we’re talkin’ about here.

————-

Are people buying it?

Many think it’s simply free for the taking, because the contractors to the marketing department are having a 300 martini expense-account lunch and while they’re out, almost the entire marketing department itself is taking a deep-r.e.m. nap.

————-

November could easily be just another month, we need to take this new leadership and force them to make real changes because they wont do it by themselves.

We could also very easily be sent a memo by Upper Management (probably hand-written on a Post-It Note) to skip November and go straight to a dead of winter lasting four score and seven years.

 

You're right that we are the early adopters

Common_Cents (Diary) Thursday, July 15th at 10:32AM EST (link)

For most people the best way to get their attention is the pocketbook. That is waking up many now to thinking something just isn’t right and they’ll be open to seek out “new” ideas like the constitution. Recession is people losing jobs, depression is losing your job. Many are in denial and will continue to rearrange the deck chairs and play on. I don’t see America in a long slow decline like Europe, we have short attention spans and little patience, coupled with a propensity to take action when things get bad enough. It might take a few years of misery but I am confident long term.

Obama will be called out soon as the emperor with no clothes and it will turn the tide and make it socially acceptable to call him out.

Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from, behind, the Back Nine.
Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.

 
 

Well

handprop Tuesday, July 13th at 11:51PM EST (link)

That’s the problem, we do not market the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc, we market a brand of leadership and the quality of the brand is determined by perception…..perception of the public.

Your answer to “can we sell it” has nothing to do with anything. Are the people buying into our brand of leadership?

It’s kind of like Harley Davidson, they don’t sell bikes, they sell a lifestyle.

I understand what you mean by freedom etc but that is not a product, freedom is a result of great leadership. One of the biggest problems we face with the public, as it concerns leadership, is they don’t trust politicians……many of them have decided to seperate themselves and go about business as usual. In my opinion we need to have solutions, package it up, brand it, and sell it.

In order to do this conservatives need to unite around a central platform and sell the whole system.

To simply go around and preach freedom and the Constitution isn’t a plan that average people can relate to, they see a failed brand from both sides…..and they don’t trust it. Because of this we run into the danger of them voting for people who tell them what they want to hear and truth has nothing to do with it……as we have learned and are still learning from the Obama administration.

Again, selling the Conservative brand is not the solution, we still have to get the work done.

handprop

 

Conservatives also need to patrol the polls in Nov.

renny (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 8:02AM EST (link)

You can go to local Rep. headquarters and volunteer to be challengers, poll sitters, and judges. We need them especially in places like Philadelphia and other cities. The New Black Panthers charade would not have taken place with active Rep. challengers in place.

If local police don’t respond to election illegalities, call state police. If you have friends and allies active on election day, you can call them to “mob” your “street corner”. Use phone video and still pix for evidence. Call the “press.”

Today, email or call Brown, Snowe, and Collins, as tomorrow is the Frank-Dodd vote, another measure to cripple US business, bring about more recession in 2011 and longer, and corral another industry in Obama’s socialist barn.

Kagan’s vote has been postponed. Mob your senators so that NOT ONE Rep. votes for her. If she’s not filibustered, she’s going to pass on Dem. votes alone.

I Wish

edintexas Wednesday, July 14th at 8:24AM EST (link)

I wish contacting Brown, Collins and Snowe would be all that it took to get them to vote against the bill. But each of them would rather vote with the Democrats than stand with the Republicans on most issues. They obviously believe that is the key to their continued re-election prospects, and it must be so – for the Maine sisters keep getting re-elected. It seems the days of Maine being a particularly “conservative Yankee” state are long gone, and we know that Massachusetts is far, far from being a conservative bastion. There is little hope Brown will help, he apparently thinks if he votes like a Democrat he will keep his seat (and he probably is the typical “Rockefeller Republican” who believes in the Statist program anyway). Well, these 3 probably will help the Rs to take control of the Senate some day, the Rs just shouldn’t try and count on their votes after that.

And you are “whistling Dixie” that none of these three, plus Lindsey (at least) will vote for cloture. One, or all, will go for cloture, and probably vote to confirm.

oops

edintexas Wednesday, July 14th at 8:27AM EST (link)

“…get them to vote against the bill.” Obviously that should have been vote against CLOTURE. They have already stated they will vote for cloture and end any filibuster. Whether they then vote for the bill, or against, is immaterial as passage is guaranteed by their prior vote.

 
 
 

Anyone who believes actual armed conflict is possible...

ssshannon1026 (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 10:28AM EST (link)

simply knows nothing about the military. It really isn’t even a question of being able to conduct combat operations, it would be a question of logistics. There is simply no way that you could keep a military force in food, ammunition and equipment. Hell, all the government would have to do is to stop food from getting to the local grocery store and the civil war would be over. How many men would stay in the field when their wifes and children are starving in their previously comfortable little suburbs? The government would not have to fire a shot.

And even if that problem could be overcome, modern combat is far more complex than it was in the 18th and 19th century, It takes years to get a person trained enough to have any hope of surviving on a modern battlefield. 99% of any force would be dead in the first few minutes of combat. Guarenteed. So unless you are willing to be the next Timothy McVeigh, any notion of actually armed conflict should be immediately abandoned. It ain’t gonna happen.

I certainly think armed conflict is possible,

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 11:30AM EST (link)

though unlikely to be with the uniformed military. At some point the regime will not be able to keep the balls in the air. Just as with the Wiemar Republic, Washington runs out of the money necessary to keep dependent constituencies sullen rather than mutinous. When there’s not enough in Comrade Obama’s “stash” to keep the urban population happy, they first burn the cities, we’ve seen that before, they then turn on the suburbs and that’s when the gunfire erupts. The people who organize these “actions” only do them in nice safe blue places where they expect the cooperation of the cops and the city/state administration, and they will get it at first. Like most things that go badly awry, it will seem business as usual until the SEIU or the NBPP or some other group picks the wrong place for their riot. A Blue city government will not be able to handle it, won’t be willing to make the necessary real arrests and show of force for fear of the poltical consequences and the thing will spiral out of control.

At some point the city has to ask the state for help with either state police or NG. If state resources can’t quell the disturbance, then the governor has to decide if s/he is willing to allow it to be federalized. If the governor is willing to make the declaration that the event is beyond state resources, then it is the President’s choice as to whether he would federalize more Guard and bring them in or whether he would use the active duty military as a show of force. I would assume that being of sound mind, those on our side of the poltical ditch would simply melt into the woods or back into suburban life rather than confront either NG or Active Duty troops. I don’t know that the other side would because they would not be expecting true oppostion and either rioters or nevous Guardsmen could do something very dangerous, see, e.g., Kent State. I’ll guarantee you that at the time of KS, no demostrator would have expected the NG to do more than make a show. In any event, nobody will be planning for armed conflict and nobody will expect it when it happens. Consequently, local government certainly won’t handle it well and will either contribute to the incitement by over-reacting or encourge the rioters and looters by failing to act resolutely. Either way, you get helter-skelter in and around some city(ies). Then state authority gets their chance to handle it and if they can’t or won’t, the President has a crisis that might be too good to waste.

In Vino Veritas

I Think It's Increasingly Inevitable

IJB Wednesday, July 14th at 11:37AM EST (link)

The first poster is just wrong about this.

Social collapse is increasingly inevitable.

ssshannon1026 (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 8:38PM EST (link)

Any armed effot to put things back in order is simply not possible. Or, at least, there is no historic precedent for it. If it happens it will be like nothing in our cultural or historic memory. It will be orders of magnitude more difficult than our Revolution or our civil war and will necessarily be waged by people orders of magnitude softer and less self reliant than was the population that fought those earlier conflicts.

 
 

The best course of action

ssshannon1026 (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 6:42PM EST (link)

is to defeat them at the ballot box and let the other side worry about starting a civil war – after we have legitimate control of the millitary. I am very curious to see what will happen when their power begins to slip through their fingers. They have waiting generations for just the opportunity they have had with Obama/Pelosi and company. To see it so easily destroyed democratically will likely force them to rethink their long term strategy of trying to promote change from within and take more direct actions.

Of course it is. This isn't the first time this subject has come up.

Achance (Diary) Thursday, July 15th at 3:57AM EST (link)

Several of us have written about it before. Should it come to armed conflict in any general sense, I don’t know that the US could survive as a nation. I’ve maintained that the next two or three elections decide the future of the US. I’m not convinced that Comrade Obama can be beaten by ANY Republican in ’12, so it is vitally important that we win as many Congressional, state legislature, and gubernatorial seats as possible in ’10 and ’12. We can expect massive fraud in both elections and a concerted effort to reapportion the opposition out of existence through manipulation of the census; it ain’t for nothin’ they wanted the Census run from the WH.

I have also maintained that it is vitally important that it be a Democrat constituency that brings about armed conflict; we really, really should be finding ways to reach out to the guys wearing camoflage and convince them to stand down, even if it means taking some technically unnecessary casualties. If the Right fires the first shots, there will be Waco after Waco and Ruby Ridge after Ruby Ridge while the government and the government run media marginalizes and demonizes the people being killed – and the Country approves of it as at least a necessary evil.

As to the uniformed military, they’ll follow orders and they WILL shoot into an unarmed crowd if ordered to do so, at least at first. We’re not that far from where the Romans were with their legions that weren’t from Rome. A “volunteer” military that isn’t all that reflective of the demographics of the Country is its own issue. I think at some point if it really got out of control the military might well mutiny, but not in the early stages. Their mission would be to restore and maintain “order” as the government defines order, so they really wouldn’t be taking sides, they’d just be keeping the peace. That wouldn’t inspire much thought of mutiny among any but the most cerebral.

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 

You Forget the Oath Keepers

klesb Wednesday, July 14th at 5:05PM EST (link)

You forget the Oath Keepers! We have sworn oaths to defend our Constitution, not our Commander-in-Chief! Those who commit treason to our Constitution need to be defended against as the domestic enemies they are!

Taking an oath

ssshannon1026 (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 8:30PM EST (link)

doesn’t equate to fielding an effective military force. Even assuming that you are in the peak physical condition required to take the field, how many days can you go without food and water? How about your family? How many families do you think are prepared for the break down in food delivery that would certainly accompany any sufficiently extreme social disorder? I’m better prepared than anyone I know, and I could make it maybe for two years if I put the family on near starvation rations. But I wouldn’t be able to join any fight against the government because I would have to commit myself to defending my home from my starving neighbors.

 
 
 

Hear! Hear!

klesb Wednesday, July 14th at 4:56PM EST (link)

Hear! Hear!

There are just two choices….

 

Y'all, I'm going to admit it

lolercoasters Wednesday, July 14th at 6:18PM EST (link)

I HATE freedom like whoah. LIKE WHOAH I TELL YOU.

 

Really? [G'bye - NS]

godspeed Wednesday, July 14th at 9:33PM EST (link)

This is the most violent thing I’ve ever heard. The only comforting thought in all of this is that you all sound like you’re playing a fantasy role playing game. You cannot possibly be serious.

Well, enjoy your fantasy.

 

Thank you!

eagleburns (Diary) Wednesday, July 14th at 10:13PM EST (link)

n/t

 

Welcome to To the No-Fly List [G'bye – NS]

alexanderwyld Thursday, July 15th at 6:49PM EST (link)

[We are not here for your special time. Put your pants back on.]

Hi everyone,

I hope you realise you’ve invited yourself for consideration on the no-fly list, for warrant-less wiretapping (there’s that patriot act in action!) and other forms of surveillance by suggesting armed revolution.

This is the kinda insurrectionary discussion Glenn Beck criticised in the radical left.

No Fly

Gary Bentley (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 12:11AM EST (link)

I’m sure Big Sis already has me on a list already…

“If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn’t thinking.” – General George Patton Jr

Sr. Systems Analyst by Day, Political Activist by Night!

 
 

Firing on our troops is treason. That is unacceptable.

Tbone (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 6:04PM EST (link)

If there is to be a refusal of orders it has to be at the Joint Chiefs level or just below. That would keep the troops out of the streets in the first place.

As much as I might come to hate our government, I would never kill an American soldier who joined to protect me from what he thought would only be a foreign government..

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

 

Google, Yahoo, and Impeachment

Ausonius (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 10:40PM EST (link)

For some months now I have not had the time to visit RedState like I did: I have all kinds of ideas for diaries, but Life is sabotaging me at every turn.

After skimming through this diary, I thought that one way to avoid the alternatives is simply impeachment!

Since I have a wee bit of time tonight, I returned to something I began last summer: tracking the number of hits on the phrase “Impeach Obama.”

At one point, it reached over a million on Google, but then settled down – rather mysteriously, I thought – to a constant 500,000, despite the continuing drop of MAObama in the polls.

Yahoo always showed more hits than Google, sometimes 2 or 3 times more.

Tonight, for the first time in months, I returned to this little curiosity:

“Impeach Obama” – 6.7 million hits on Google.

Over 17,000,000 on Yahoo!!! Both of these are an incredible increase over what I was finding back in the winter.

As Arte Johnson said on Laugh-In: “Verrry Interestink!” :)

Ausonius: 310-395 A.D. Teacher, Poet, Consul, General, Farmer.

Personal Tutor to the future St. Paulinus of Nola and to young Gratian, heir to the throne during the turbulent final years of the Western Roman Empire. When his former student Gratian was assassinated, Ausonius threw up his hands and retired to his farm in Gaul. Rome was captured by barbarians 14 years after his death.

Cato@rock.com

2 House Committees having jurisdiction over filing impeachment articles

cactusjack Saturday, July 17th at 12:17AM EST (link)

House Rules and House Judiciary. That is why it is so important to take the house. The new speaker will pick these committees’ chair(wo)men. Law of averages says they both won’t be RINOs or sleepers. If he does the executive order granting amnesty, I would expect the House to file and vote on articles of impeachment.

 
 

Based on TV's treatment of the Tea Parties and Obama making oil spill coverage illegal...

H (Diary) Friday, July 16th at 11:30PM EST (link)

I would predict that “The revolution will *not* be televised.”

 

The Audacity Of A Presidential Proclamation......... Captive Nation's Week.

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 12:19AM EST (link)

Not worth my penning a full diary, but I’m of the mind this little ditty from our Dictator In Training Pants fits right here.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/presidential-proclamation-captive-nations-week

In 1959, President Eisenhower issued the first Captive Nations Proclamation in solidarity with those living without personal or political autonomy behind the Iron Curtain. Since that time, once-captive nations have broken free to establish civil liberties, open markets, and allow their people access to information. However, even as more nations have embraced self governance and basic human rights, there remain regimes that use violence, threats, and isolation to suppress the aspirations of their people.

snip

In partnership with like-minded governments, we must reinforce multilateral institutions and international partnerships that safeguard human rights and democratic values. We must empower embattled civil societies and help their people connect with one another and the global community through new technologies. And, with faith in the future, we must always stand with the courageous advocates, organizations, and ordinary citizens around the world who fearlessly fight for limitless opportunity and unfettered freedom.

==================

C’mon now, just how out of it does this administration think American’s really are ?

Da noiv o’ da bum…… What an imm-bess-ill……… What an ultra-maroon.

 

All this is over my head, guys, and I admit, I don't know which strategy will prevail

jdw4america (Diary) Saturday, July 17th at 4:58PM EST (link)

I hope, and indeed I pray, for only a fool would suggest that we must rely upon Divine Assistance to save “the last, best hope of earth” (A. Lincoln) from the devastation of our current siege can be resisted by the ballot.

I do know, however, that whatever form our restoration takes, I am committed to being part of it. I will not allow my birthright as an American, and that of my children to be stolen by evil, vicious people bent upon our nation’s destruction.