Comments on: Maine marriage referendum betrays small “r” republican principles

By: AceInTX

AceInTX — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:15:32 +0000

By: Mike gamecock DeVine

Mike gamecock DeVine — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:20:27 +0000

By: Mike gamecock DeVine

Mike gamecock DeVine — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:19:55 +0000

I definitely would have been for the public vote. I think its a close call in any event.

By: pilgrim

pilgrim — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:09:00 +0000

This process that Maine has in place to have a referendum on major controversial things they do is more important in a state where the lame duck legislators have no fear of voter backlash. This is just another reason that I oppose strict term limits on legislators. The term limit they have should be the next election. They should always have a fear of backlash from voters whenever they do anything. That fear is not there for lame ducks.
I would be in agreement with you were it not for the strict term limit rules in Maine.

By: Mike gamecock DeVine

Mike gamecock DeVine — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:55:07 +0000

later

By: civil_truth

civil_truth — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:37:47 +0000

Referenda* are a response to legislative dysfunction – a citizen “veto” of the legislature. The mitigation is that these truly are rare – and as such still represent a safety value when the legislature runs too afoul of popular opinion.

Although referenda are not law-making, I do recognize the slippery slope if referenda become the norm and scare the legislature out of peforming its duty on controversial topics. So while I’m not thrilled with the precedent, the trade-off at this point seems acceptible.

(And no, I’m not speaking from a results orientation, but from a balancing of evils – a runaway legislature vs. a runaway citizenry.)

Overall, we have a breakdown in republican government because the spirit is dying and we try to cover that over with more structures that offend the original design, ending up with a monster.

When too few of our citizenry (and legislators) understand what a republic is about, much less subscribe to the compact, we have a sickness unto death.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

*Note on definitions. Referendum is a popular vote on overturning a piece of legislation. Even in California, these are still quite rare.

The distinction is vis-a-vis Initiative, which represents citizen law-making, which has been shown to carry all your fears about subverting republican principles and leading to legislative abdication (not to mention poorly constructed laws).

So briefly, Initiatives have proven themselves to “betray” republican principles. Referenda are a two-edged sword, but so long as they remain a rarely-used procedure, they have value as safety valves to preempt a slide to civic rebellion.

By: AceInTX

AceInTX — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:19:35 +0000

The same-sex marriage law in Maine was originally supposed to have have taken effect on September 11, 2009. On September 2, 2009, however, Secretary of State Matt Dunlap announced that opponents had successfully petitioned for a referendum on the issue and the law was put on hold.[3] On November 3, 2009, the law was repealed by referendum.[4] Maine’s domestic partnership law remains in effect.

By: AceInTX

AceInTX — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:11:39 +0000

It appears I was mistaken.

By: AceInTX

AceInTX — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:01:42 +0000

but didn’t the Maine referendum reverse a vote by the legislature that was ordered by a court to conduct.

If I’m not mistaken, there was a court order…I’m not sure if it was from a State or Federal circuit court…anyway…there was a court order that the state legislature had to pass a law allowing for same sex marriage…and another thing I think I heard was that that same court order required this referendum vote as well…I’ll look into that…but as I understood the issue…this vote was to correct an over reach by the courts