I recently cross-posted one of my blogs here on Facebook, and inevitably the one person I knew would comment did. “M,” as I’ll call him, used the following to deride my view that taxes are a dis-incentive to work:
My question is whether any proposed tax cut on businesses would constitute a large enough amount of money to permit the hiring of new workers. Surely, some would be hired, but I’m reluctant to buy fully the idea that all economic ills are cured by tax cuts.
Reason being: There’s been a perversion of the idea that tax cuts yield benefits. Like the way the Laffer curve is used by politicians to say, without any qualifications, that lower taxes cause increases in revenue. Well, in that case, let’s lower them to 0% and watch the cash stream in. It’s a pathology that consumes much of the right: lower taxes will in all cases yield a stronger economy.
So let’s talk about this liberal talking point: That if the Laffer Curve is true, we could lower taxes to 0% and watch the money roll in.
M sees this as a critical failure of conservative/libertarian thinking, but in reality only shows how specious is liberal reasoning. Mathematically, if you multiply something by zero, you have zero. If you add zero to zero, you have zero. If you subtract zero from zero, you have zero. Zero is by definition nothing, and you cannot get anything from nothing.
Liberals don’t understand that mathematics and economics also have limits. These are not limits to capabilities to describe the universe, which is the purpose of both of these sciences, but rather limits are boundaries within the science. Why can’t we divide by zero? Because dividing by zero gives you infinity. In calculus, we learn that the point where a function (math term for result of an equation) reaches infinity, there is a “limit.” This limit indicates that, no matter how big or small the number placed in the variable, it will never reach that limit. The speed of light is an example of limits: No matter how much energy one expends, one can never propel a spacecraft to the speed of light (let’s ignore quantum theories for the time being: I’m talking “big particle” physics).
Economics also has this type of limit. Many call it the “law of diminishing returns.” Economists call it “diminishing marginal utility.” Whatever the name, the concept is that eventually for each unit of resources (amount of money or time) expended or invested, the return on that expenditure or investment is zero, perhaps less.
Think of it this way: I might spend one dollar on a chocolate bar. I enjoy this chocolate bar tremendously. So I spend another dollar and eat another chocolate bar. I still enjoy it, but the sweetness of it isn’t quite as nice. Still, I spend another dollar and eat another chocolate bar. This time, the taste of chocolate is practically making me sick. I still enjoy it, but only barely. If I eat another chocolate bar, I’m likely to not enjoy it or to just make myself sick. If I don’t enjoy it, my dollar was wasted. If I get sick, I have less as I expel all the chocolate I enjoyed. Either way, I don’t want any more chocolate. I have reached my “limit” of enjoying chocolate.
(My apologies to my girlfriend, who states that there is no “limit” to the enjoyment of chocolate!)
Let’s get back to Laffer. Arthur Laffer popularized the well-known but often-ignored idea that increases in taxes do not necessarily mean increased tax revenues. Tax rates that are too high will discourage productive economic activities, slowing growth. Conversely, Laffer also proposed that by lowering taxes, one could encourage economically productive economic behavior. This was nothing new. Keynes discussed this idea in his works, but Laffer gets credit for popularizing the effect of lowering taxes.
Eventually, the return on any continuation of a given action results in diminished returns. Raising taxes 1% might increase revenues by 1%. Raising taxes a total of 2% might then increase revenues by 1.9%. Raising taxes 3% might then increase revenues by 2.5%. A 4% increase results in 2.7% more revenue. 5% might result in only 1.7% more revenue since economic productivity has been discouraged, and a 6% increase would be revenue-neutral. The increased tax rates have discouraged productivity to the point where the economy starts to shrink. These numbers are, of course, imaginary and based on no mathematical, economic or historical principle. They are illustrative only.
Similarly, lowering taxes by 1% might increase revenues by 1% due to increased incentive to produce. Lowering by 2% might result in 1.9% greater revenue, 3% results in 2.5%, and so on again until a 6% reduction in taxes becomes revenue-neutral. The amount of additional productivity no longer keeps pace with the reduction of tax rates resulting in revenue losses. With regard to this discussion and because the numbers are imaginary, I am keeping the numbers on each side the same to avoid any claim of bias.
Again, the reason for this is the concept of limits. At some point, increasing or lowering the tax rate has little to no effect on revenues or productivity, or may even have a negative effect.
The kind of liberal thinking espoused by M shows just how desperate the Left is to undermind those who think critically. Specious reasoning is, by definition, reasonable in the moment but upon critical reflection understood to be laughably stupid. This criticism of Laffer and the idea of stimulating economic growth by lowering taxes (and the related increase in tax revenues) is just that. We hear it on talk radio and on television. We see it in blogs and newspaper columns. It is stuipid and needs to stop.
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
Re: Laffer curve. To put it another way....
Steve Maley (Diary) Wednesday, January 28th at 9:32PM EST (link)At zero tax rate, tax revenue is zero.
At some high tax rate, say 100%, tax revenue is also zero.
At some point in between 0% and 100%, tax revenue is maximized. That’s the theoretically optimum tax rate. The result of increasing tax rates beyond the optimum is less tax revenue.
That’s the fundamental nature of a curve. The only point that seems debatable to me is figuring out what the optimum is, and where you are relative to the optimum.
Pre-Reagan tax rates were way past the optimum. Capital gains rates (maybe a special case) also increase tax revenue when reduced.
Liberals seem to struggle with the conceptual mathematics: if you need more tax money, you raise tax rates, right? Liberals typically can’t relate to the practical business decision to work less hard/take less risk for a payback diminished by a too-high tax rate. Liberals get hung up on the fairness issue of cutting taxes for the top 50% of taxpayers, the ones who actually pay the tax.
IIRC, candidate Obama even said that he did not care a lick that cutting the cap gains rate would bring in more tax dollars, he could not get past the fairness issue.
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
competing governments
Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, January 29th at 12:05AM EST (link)other governments have other tax rates and clearly when a competing country with good workers and other natural resources also has preferable tax rates it will suck away businesses and jobs from the country with higher taxes. This doesn’t affect the discussion of the laffer curve but it does set a hard upper limit on taxes that Democrats seem to be incapable of understanding.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
Moving Target
fmaidment (Diary) Thursday, January 29th at 6:59AM EST (link)It also means that the Laffer curve is constantly shifting, as different government adjust their tax rates over time. The optimum point is fluctuating, not stable.
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
Very true.
Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, January 29th at 9:16AM EST (link)I saw a table of corporate tax rates the other day – the US now has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world. Nearly all the nations of the world, socialism aside, have bought into the positive effects of cutting corporate tax rates.
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
Excellent discussion...
DONTREADONME (Diary) Wednesday, January 28th at 9:39PM EST (link)I recommend this only because I dealt with a similar person and went into a little about the Laffer curve on one of my diaries in the past few months. Good job, I guess I just have appreciation for the theorem of limits.
Laffer Ignorance
ntrepid (Diary) Wednesday, January 28th at 10:13PM EST (link)Vladimir beat me to it by pointing out that the Laffer curve does indeed predict no revenue with a zero percent tax rate…I was just going to have more fun with it by suggesting a shorter answer to “M”:
“With all due respect, all economic ills may not be cured by tax cuts but it is a good place to start. And stop calling me Shirley.
Furthermore, there’s been a perversion of the idea that modern day liberal tax and spenders actually have a clue about macroeconomic policy making. Like the way many are so glibly dismissive of Laffer, without any apparent real knowledge of what they are talking about, and toss around silly exaggerations of lowering the tax rate to 0% and watching the cash stream in.
Any thirty second internet search on the subject will reveal numerous diagrams of the concept that all show a y-intercept of zero. It’s a pathology that blinds much of the left: don’t let facts stop you from proving your ignorance.”
My silliness aside, a very good discussion Mr. Maidment.
Ntrepid
Proud Member for 4 Years and 5 Months
“Everybody has an agenda. Except for me.” – Michael Crichton, State of Fear.
I guess you could simply throw the left off by saying...
DONTREADONME (Diary) Wednesday, January 28th at 10:21PM EST (link)the Laffer curve is based simply on a negative second derivative of a classic parabolic curve that has two y intercepts equaling zero. The second derivative of the laffer curve shows that the equation has concavity. I think this is typical of the left and forgetting mathematics class, maybe they took to many arts courses.
It is worth noting...
fmaidment (Diary) Wednesday, January 28th at 10:28PM EST (link)…that in previous discussions with M, he revealed that he had been a business major, then changed to English.
I suspect he entered his first semester of Finance and wigged-out.
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
It is kind of hard to carry on finance when you can not make the math work out -nt
DONTREADONME (Diary) Wednesday, January 28th at 10:30PM EST (link)Correction to my point on the "throw the left off with"...
DONTREADONME (Diary) Wednesday, January 28th at 10:32PM EST (link)It should be x intercepts not two y interecepts. Geez, I was a math and laser physics double major, I have to prevent making myself look bad.
Correction only half necessary.
fmaidment (Diary) Wednesday, January 28th at 10:36PM EST (link)One y-intercept SHOULD be at zero. The second would simply be at 100.
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791