Your money? The government’s “income”


There was an interesting comment made on the floor of the United States Senate yesterday.

I first noticed in from Senator Jim DeMint’s twitter feed. DeMint tweeted, “Sen. Dorgan just said a vote for tax cuts is a vote to ‘reduce this country’s income. To Democrats, it’s the government’s money. Not yours.”

Really? I mean it wouldn’t surprise me, but we rarely hear the Democrats speak so bluntly about it. But sure enough, here is the rush transcript from the floor yesterday from 4:36 p.m.:

THOSE WHO CRIED THE LOUDEST ON THE FLOOR OF THE SENATE THESE DAYS — RIGHT NOW — ARE THE VERY ONES THAT VOTED TO REDUCE THIS COUNTRY’S INCOME WITH THE BIGGEST BENEFITS GOING TO THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS.

You can watch it here.

Really Senator Dorgan? Voting to give Americans back their own money was a vote to “reduce this country’s income with the biggest benefits going to the wealthiest Americans?”

Certainly cutting taxes reduces the governments’ income in a static calculation, but we also know that revenue into the treasury went up after those tax cuts.

The Democrats really do think it is their money.


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27 Comments Leave a comment

If 5% Appears Too Small,

Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Thursday, July 22nd at 11:52AM EST (link)

Be happy I don’t take it all…
‘Cuz I’m the Taxman
Yeah, Yeah I’m the taxman
and you’re working for NOONE ELSE BUT ME!

” I side impenitently with the human race against the modern reformer.” – C.S. Lewis

Did someone say TAXMAN?

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, July 22nd at 12:00PM EST (link)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 
 

It's almost as if they want less wealth in the marketplace

jsanzone (Diary) Thursday, July 22nd at 12:27PM EST (link)

Nahh…

http://www.2010blog.net
20/10 Blog

 

Good thing Dorgan is going

crassus (Diary) Thursday, July 22nd at 2:05PM EST (link)

I do not believe we can ever elect a conservative majority to the Senate, when states like North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska, and Arkansas have one or both Senators from the Democratic party.

 

I did not correct haystack

rdelbov Thursday, July 22nd at 2:18PM EST (link)

the other day but here some did you know stuff about government benefits–think the Stabenow post. Not everyone is aware that this is happening.

1. Yup you can get unemployment benefits on debit cards. Yup debit cards. You get signed and on a weekly basis money is credited to your card. You go to an ATM (even at Casinos) for cash or just charge at any other store just like it was your own credit card.

2. Unemployment benefits-and other government benefits-can also be direct deposited into your own bank account. You take a voided check to the agency and sign up just like you were working.

I cannot tell you how quick money can be set up in these accounts. This is the government so if the bill was signed on Wednesday I am not sure the direct deposit happens on Friday–no clue on that. The days of waiting for a check in the mail or standing in line for a check are over. Its all electronic folks.

They can zap into these account back benefits to 1 million unemployed in minutes or maybe days and yet we can’t find where 11 million undocumented aliens are working at?

On as to Senator Dorgan lets be clear they view US Sam and you are partners. The share the wealth concept to them is that once you get above some sort of living wage then you need to share or spread the wealth around. Your obligation to society kicks in at that point. You punish success but you reward –fill in the blank.

free cell phones. /nt

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 6:02PM EST (link)

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Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

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Economics

moderaterepub Thursday, July 22nd at 2:47PM EST (link)

“Certainly cutting taxes reduces the governments’ income in a static calculation, but we also know that revenue into the treasury went up after those tax cuts.”

ERICK ERICKSON: YOUR MONEY? THE GOVERNMENT’S INCOME” :)

But seriously, I think this is hair splitting. I don’t think saying income instead of revenue or tax yield or whatever is contemptuous of taxpayers.

I hit enter too soon

moderaterepub Thursday, July 22nd at 2:50PM EST (link)

In fact, the infamous Obama-Pelosi cheerleader, tax and spend liberal John Boehner uses the phrase here:

http://gopleader.gov/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=123296

Washington’s attitude gives new meaning to the common sales phrase “buy now, pay later.” Congress and the White House have burned through our government’s “income” for the current Fiscal Year – a practice that shows no signs of stopping after Debt Day comes and goes on Sunday.

Disingenous ad hominem, moderaterepub.

Loren Heal (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 6:48AM EST (link)

First: Boehner is your hero — if you are in fact a moderate Republican, which I tend to doubt. But he is held in no particularly high regard by conservatives.

But, you lie anyway. Here are Boehner’s words from your link, at the bottom of an outstanding post decrying Democrat spending. Note the quotation marks around “income”:

Washington’s attitude gives new meaning to the common sales phrase “buy now, pay later.” Congress and the White House have burned through our government’s “income” for the current Fiscal Year – a practice that shows no signs of stopping after Debt Day comes and goes on Sunday. So, Washington will continue to “buy now,” while taxpayers 10, 20, and 30 years from now will be forced to “pay later.” And pay dearly, they will.

The key here is the that Dorgan said “our country’s income”, not “our government’s income”. The government is not the country, but Dorgan appears to believe that the country is separate from the people, rather than being a small part of it.


Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.

Semantics

moderaterepub Friday, July 23rd at 9:19AM EST (link)

Your argument is that Boehner wrote something and put income in speech marks. Well, Dorgan said something – I generally don’t use speech marks when I talk, how about you?

I think there are bigger issues and better examples of Democrat’s contempt for American taxpayers than whether or not Byron Dorgan would have used speech marks around the word income. Like John Kerry voting with his feet on MA taxes:

http://bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view.bg?articleid=1269698

You mischaracterize my comment.

Loren Heal (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 12:28PM EST (link)

Acknowledge that I said key was the government/country phrasing.

And even to the extent that my argument turned on quote marks, you are again disingenuous. Dorgan wasn’t mocking the word “income”, as Boehner was, or was at least noting that it was not the proper word to use in that context.

Be honest.


Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.

 

They're called "quote marks"

realskinny (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 12:34PM EST (link)

not “speech marks”, The point is not in using the word income to refer to revenue, it is in conflating the “country’s income” (analogous to GDP) and “income” (revenue) to the Federal government. Dorgan may or may not understand the difference.

This is part of the ignorance of so many in Government. They actually believe ALL assets in the country belong to the government. They have also engaged in “Enron accounting” to cover up the corruption for so long they no longer can understand simple arithmetic or honest accounting. For instance, most in Congress will assert the Social Security Trust Fund exists and contains real assets, apparently unaware IOU’s written to yourself have no value.

It is why so many talk of the “cost of extending the Bush tax cuts”. These rates have been in place for 8 years. They are not “cuts” any longer, they are the rates in law. The law passed 9 years ago raises current tax rates roughly 5% on income across the board and also lowers deductions tremendously. Costs are something on which money is spent. To fore go a tax increase costs nothing, so it has no “cost”. A 50% national sales tax might net $2 trillion. If Congress does not enact such a tax, does that mean we must cover the “cost” of $2 trillion lost to the government?

The exact same situation applies to the tax increases to take effect in January. There is no “cost” to be “paid for”. The fact they were put into law by a congress preceding the one now sitting doesn’t absolve the current congress of the responsibility for the increases. This will be the largest tax increase in the history of the world and the Pelosi-Reid Criminal Congress will bear full responsibility.

 
 
 

moderaterepub- As I was corrected yesterday

Scope (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 5:48PM EST (link)

when you say this-

In fact, the infamous Obama-Pelosi cheerleader, tax and spend liberal John Boehner uses the phrase here:

You are not helping the Republican party, and please “Even if you don’t want to help is, please do not hurt us” as was requested by a moderator. Take heed.

 
 

this was really arrogant

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 3:52PM EST (link)

and rather useless.

Some of my friends hadn’t understood this until it was framed “this country’s income.”

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Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

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We are solid middle class

Veronica (Diary) Thursday, July 22nd at 3:20PM EST (link)

Since Obama was elected (since November 2008, businesses have read the writing on the wall), my husband’s company has cut down his group to a 3-man skeleton crew.

He has had to handle the jobs of about 5 men.

He works much, much harder, and when he stops for a breath, he hears the muffled words of “keep going, they have to justify headcount” in his ears.

His raises since then have been fractions of a percent.

We’re well-aware of the biggest tax-hike in history coming in January.

And we won’t even touch or adjust our healthcare benefits because we know they’ll lose their grandfather status sooner rather than rather than later.

We like working for a corporation just fine because we don’t want to be a small business owners. They’re good people and my husband’s hard work has always been rewarded.

Not anymore.

President Obama has changed the structure of this country — where even the solid middle class are paying through the nose to cushion the living of others.

We pay Congress’ salaries first — and their posh Brownstones in DC, where the home values are among the highest in the nation — and we pay the bums sitting on couches so they can afford cable and the latest cellphone.

Do I care for these “luxuries”? No.

I want to just want to eat well, send my kids to college off our dime (not the taxpayers), and have a date night every once in a while with my husband so we can keep our marriage intact and de-stress .. so we can, in turn, keep nurturing the kids.

Wealth isn’t bad. Middle class isn’t bad.

It’s Obama’s socialist values that are bad.

With this administration, working hard is officially now only a reward in and of itself. If you believe in a good work ethic, your soul will continue to thrive. If you don’t, you’re supposed to succumb to the easy road and fall under the spell of collectivist thought.

His policies would give cause to families that are “suffering” such as ours to join unions and become collectivists against corporations and other economic leaders who want to “stick it to the little guy.”

Instead of working harder, we’re supposed to be striking and forcing the adoption of more federal regs that are designed to force American trades to succumb to government control.

I say we strike the government : Fire ‘em.

Then force the waters of government intervention to recede by repealing their brand of socialism.

It will take years .. we haven’t a moment to lose. We can and will do it!

Remember November.

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Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

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speaking of which

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 2:38AM EST (link)

Reality gap: U.S. struggles, D.C. booms

America is struggling with a sputtering economy and high unemployment — but times are booming for Washington’s governing class.

The massive expansion of government under President Barack Obama has basically guaranteed a robust job market for policy professionals, regulators and contractors for years to come. The housing market, boosted by the large number of high-income earners in the area, many working in politics and government, is easily outpacing the markets in most of the country. And there are few signs of economic distress in hotels, restaurants or stores in the D.C. metro area.

As a result, there is a yawning gap between the American people and D.C.’s powerful when it comes to their economic reality — and their economic perceptions.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39851.html#ixzz0uU8LO5Sf

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Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

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so right Veronica

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 2:51AM EST (link)

to many, including the Doc, it is like a Faustian choice. I have many skills that work better with government in the foreign policy, and military affairs arena, than they do in the private sector. I see a national government that disdains free enterprise and rewards government service with almost a winning lottery ticket.

There was a time when I thought working for DOD or the Department of State was a good thing, and maybe it still is. But do I do what I am intellectually inclined trained to do, and reap the benefits, and at the same time go against all I have been saying for so long, that the free market should decide and government should be as small as possible?

I am almost to the point where I am willing to deny my own talents their best avenue to deny what I politically criticize. Too bad the private market cares little for history, strategy, and broad knowledge. lol.

Molon Labe!

I kno

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 2:59AM EST (link)

but you caught me at a bad time.

My comp is at 3% batt capacity (2 now) and I’m off to bed.

Tomorrow.

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Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

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ok, i lied

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 3:53AM EST (link)

not really..

.. i saw the flight 93 crescent story and I had to post

now I bid you ‘nite, Doc.

I’m going to think about your problem.

And it is a problem. A lot of us are caught up in it.

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Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

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It isn't about "increasing revenue"

merryj1 Thursday, July 22nd at 4:37PM EST (link)

It’s about redistribution. Those hacks may pretend to believe what they say, but they know as well as we do that lowering taxes stokes the private-sector economic engine, creates work and opportunities, and raises the total tax revenue. They don’t care about that. They care about ideology, and theirs is warped and twisted. Liberalism truely is a mental desease.

 

On that note

rdelbov Thursday, July 22nd at 4:44PM EST (link)

pelosi vows not to extend Bush tax cuts to anyone over 250K a year plus I suspect she has massive spending plans for the rest of 2010.

 

I've never understood

Menlo (Diary) Thursday, July 22nd at 6:28PM EST (link)

The wealthiest people and biggest corporations and executives never seem to complain about Democrats’ taxing them. They tend to vote D and support Democrats. In fact, if I recall correctly, this group tripled their election turnout in 2008 and voted 3-to-1 for Obama (having gone with Bush in 2004).

Do Democrats not want to give them tax breaks too? I’m thinking there is some hypocrisy going on here.

“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter

That's easy. They either don't pay taxes or their "campaign contributions" come with special tax carve-outs... [nt]

acat (Diary) Thursday, July 22nd at 7:01PM EST (link)

——
self-portrait

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein

 

It Really is Easy

edintexas Friday, July 23rd at 7:19AM EST (link)

No corporation pays taxes. Taxing corporations is a scam on John Q. Public, for it is the customers who pay the taxes. Obviously, the taxes are built into the price of the product. This is not to say that the owners of small outfits don’t pay taxes on money they take out of the business.

As for the very wealthy, their income most frequently comes from tax free financial instruments (municipal bonds, etc.). This is how Warren Buffet has been cited as stating that his secretary pays more taxes on her $60,000 USD salary than he pays on his billions. I would further note that he is a Democrat and uses the infobit to press for more taxation (which he wouldn’t pay. He can say tax the municipal bonds, but he knows that the State and local governments have more than enough pull to prevent the taxation of their bonds). Finally, he obviously is a cheap bast**d to only pay his secretary $60k.

 
 

It's Federal money, so it is theirs

smorgasbord Friday, July 23rd at 5:43AM EST (link)

The democrats figure that since the Federal money is printed by the Federal government, in Federal buildings, on Federal property, by Federal employes, and since the the politicians are Federal officials, the money is actually theirs to spend, not ours.

 

The bigger the government...

bobbyb444 Friday, July 23rd at 6:00AM EST (link)

…the bigger the wealth re-distribution. Gee, Dorgan, seems to me that the bigger the country’s government and staff, and the more bloated the entitlement programs and Pork Barrel projects are, the more the “country’s income” needs a raise…

You haven’t seen anything yet…someone up above (Veronica?) mentioned the “…coming tax hikes in January…” While potentially correct (what with Bush tax-cuts being eliminated), the REAL tax hikes will come TWO months BEFORE that, starting in late November, 2010…this coming “lame duck” Congress is positioning itself (see the new submitted bills before Congress) for new taxes on just about ALL financial transactions–worse than ever before…you won’t be able to sneeze nor move without paying a tax (er, excuse me, a “fee”).

Oh yeah, especially if your BMI is high come 2014…mandated by the White House, by the new Health Czar (excuse me, WH kitchen chef). You will be “fined” if your BMI is too high. (Can you say “fat police”?)

There goes Christmas….right into the pockets of the “country’s income” overseers. Sell everything you have/Buy everything you need/Get thinner–over next few months.

 

Road to Serfdom

Veronica (Diary) Friday, July 23rd at 3:48PM EST (link)

Great posts, discussions and threads on here and here.

or enter “Road to Serfdom” or “andyd” into the search box.

In another frontpage post Moe tells us how “Tea Parties have already passed online activists and bloggers in its ability to direct public discourse, mostly because it has also already demonstrated its superior ability to get people out in the streets, protesting. ”

And this all came about because of knowledge and exposing the lies of the left and their use and abuse and perception of the American public.

Which is why this post is valuable. It’s something everyone can understand.

The government has increased income, where I almost have none beyond what I use to meet my basic needs.

Where is my pursuit of the American dream? Why is the government taking it from me?

As people “in the know,” we just can’t keep speaking to the choir and need to keep telling our friends what’s up.

It helps by becoming scholars and reading up on a little history, and learning more and more and telling the truth in a simple way like Erick did with his “income” argument.

I suggest begin by picking up Liberal Fascism by Goldberg and Road to Serfdom by Hayek.

This is what the left is against — knowledge and understanding their history and gameplan.

And they’re the ones who chide the rightwing for “conservative censorship” — puh!!

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Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine

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