reap what she has sowed….too many of us will remember what she has done to our state…..

Put together a straight-forward healthcare reform bill that addresses the portability of health insurance, creates an insurance pool for small business that lowers the cost of premiums and is available in all fifty states, allows competition among private health insurance companies in all fifty states, creates a tax incentive to offset the cost for individuals that purchase private health insurance, implements comprehensive medical liability reform, protects private and intellectual property rights, addresses fraud and abuse in Medicare and Medicaid and uses the savings to provide insurance coverage for those that can’t afford private health insurance or have been denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions, submit the bill to the CBO for a comprehensive cost analysis, and finally, offer the bill on the floor of the Senate in the nature of a substitute for H.R. 3590.

As I have said before, if Republicans work to improve the legislation, they presuppose its passage. Instead, the GOP should plan for the destruction of the bill by offering amendments designed to divide and fracture the Democrat coalition.

Well said, Erick, well said!

http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=11255

Nelson is now using the excuse of “we should at least have debate on the bill, even though there are things I’m uncomfortable with” to save face with BOTH Democratic leadership and Nebraska voters. He’s not up for re-election until 2012, so he thinks he has time to sit on both sides of the fence to salvage his career.
For those of you on here that were praising this weasel, consider this; he voted for the stimulus bill, and he rarely sees an earmark he doesn’t like. He’s even used taxpayer dollars to improve a parking lot on a museum here in Omaha. He preaches fiscal responsibility, but loves to spend our hard earned money.
Ben Nelson is one of the reasons why Democrats labeled as “conservative,” “moderate,” or “Blue Dog” can’t be trusted. They like to talk a big game, but they really fold into party leadership’s wishes when it’s game time. Vote them all out!

Lincoln said on the floor yesterday that she wouldn’t vote to go further if the public option was still in the bill. Then again, I do take with a grain of salt anything a Democrat says,.

According to abcnews radio blurb, current senate bill includes states’ ability to “opt out.”

Talk about unintended consequences. The states with fiscally responsible governors will export people with no insurance and/or who have pre-existing conditions to their neighboring lefty-controlled states that are teetering on bankruptcy…well, I suppose it could help sell a few of those foreclosed homes in Illinois…and there’s always more federal taxpayer dollars to bail out the states who go under.

So, they’re trying to tell senators and other citizens that they promise not to…

Well, just lets all try to find last night’s Saturday Night Live skit which lays out how the president treats those who “trusted” him. Fist time I’ve laughed at SNL in decades!.

---

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

It’s a war on two fronts:

On the one hand, we need make the bill sufficiently toxic to swing one or more Democratic senators – while keeping our fence sitters from defecting on a cosmetic change that will give swing Democrats a free pass.

The other key, in terms of upcoming elections, is that both sides have a strong incentive to move the count from 60 to either 61 or 58.

60 means that every ‘yes” vote is the deciding vote, which will be a problem in the next election(s).

Similarly, if only oneDemocratic senator switches their vote such that cloture goes down by a single vote, they will be singled out as the person who caused ObamaCare to fail.

Since they didn’t have the courage to do that on a preliminary procedural vote, they’re not going to suddenly find it on the critical vote.

Which means they’ll need cover from a second side-switcher to deflect the blame. Three would be even better – and at a certain point, if cloture is clearly going down, then we’ll get a groundswell.

Landrieu and Lieberman appear the most vulnerable at this point – especially if we can embarrass her more about the $300 million pay-off.

1. Conservative activists are long on negative reinforcement and short on positive reinforcement. There should be a moratorium on bashing moderates that are with us until the vote is over like Lieberman and Snowe. Its a simple fact, we need them. Send Lieberman an email saying thanks and keep up the good work.

2. Dont stop contacting people. Waiting a day or two to call clooged lined only goes so far. Make an effort to find local radio stations that appeal to a more moderate crowd. We all know where the Rush and Hannity crowd stand. Shouting in a echo chamber does little. Get on the horn a bombard local radio stations.

The longer this stinkeroo is aired out, the longer it sees the light of day, the better chance it has of dying.

If Republicans start trying to make this bill “less bad” with stupid concessions like the Stupak amendment, it’s going to pass and we’ve already lost. If Republicans were smart, they would want Stupak-type language stripped to fracture Democrats.

We have to make this bill a career-ender for any politician that dares vote for it. This isn’t the time to score points for various constituencies, the goal for the entire conservative movement is to kill this bill.

I don’t know why, perhaps it’s been their votes on this issue thus far, but I believe many Democrats in the House and Senate are planning simultaneously to vote for passage and retirement knowing they will be defeated next year.

I believe the Democratic leadership has promised many members they are sure will be defeated either significant monetary compensation, a.k.a. bribes, or well compensated post-election jobs. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that George Soros is the money behind the bribes.

There is simply no other explanation for the seeming suicidal votes of Democrats like my Senator Blank Stare, a.k.a. Blanche Lincoln.

I think the GOP should run some adds asking simply “what was the price for Rep/Sen X’ vote?”

As for strategy I think we should get heavily involved in state races, especially in already strongly Red states and look to elect strong Federalists. If we can gain conservative, not just GOP, control of statehouses perhaps we can start invoking nullification and simply ignoring unconstitutional legislation.

We also need to get strongly behind initiatives like that in AZ that seeks to opt the state out of any federal health care system and will likely set up a 10th Amendment showdown.
http://www.azhealthcarefreedom.com/

We can’t forget the states and state initiatives and focus exclusively on federal elections. All it would take is for a few states to tell the Fed to pound sand for the entire thing to collapse. We could also use this as an opportunity to drive freeloaders to blue states so they collapse economically under the weight of their welfare programs.

So, let’s get busy at the state level.

I think Oklahoma’s GOP candidate, should he win, will lead what I described above. From his website:

“America has the best health care system is the world. The lack of health care delivery has been exacerbated over the years due to government involvement. One of the most important reforms needed is to reestablish the relationship between the patient and doctor. Government control of a third party to make health decisions for the patient is driving up the costs for the providers as well as the insurers. Nothing works better than the marketplace and free enterprise, even in health care.

To counteract Obamacare, I will be authoring legislation that protects the rights of the people of Oklahoma from an over-reaching federal government, and secure the responsibility of the State Legislature to make decisions for the citizens of this state.

This legislation is a ballot initiative which will amend the Oklahoma Constitution to protect all kinds of health care systems that could lawfully exist in the state.

The proposed constitutional amendment would:

* Prohibit any law or rule from directly or indirectly compelling any person or employer to participate in any health care system;

* Allow any person or employer to pay directly for health care services without paying any penalties or fine;

* Permit a health care provider to provide direct purchased health services without paying any penalties or fines;

* Stipulate that the purchase or sale of private health insurance shall not be prohibited.

As Governor, I will stand in the gap between the citizens of Oklahoma and an ever-growing Federal government. My goal is to continue the fight to restore our Constitutional Liberties and to protect Oklahomans’ right to decide what is best for their family with “No Strings Attached.”

Here’s my take on how to implement an effective strategy.

http://www.redstate.com/jonbingham/2009/11/22/wise-as-serpents-strategic-voting-on-healthcare-amendments/

but it’s the taxpayers that got screwed.

on them all (no matter how principled the amendment may seem) because the bill as it stands is unpassable, and thus ideal. Why help the Democrats create a more pallatable bill like one that includes a water down public option or more acceptable abortion language.

My take was that Landrieu was more amenable to the public option, but Lincoln stated several times during her debate yesterday that she would not support a final bill that included a public option.

But some of the ideas and strategies being discussed here sound an awful lot like what we call “contempt of congress”. Hmm…. Might watch out for that one. Obstruction of Congress IS a legtimate and usable charge.

I know I know, I don’t belong here, bang, delete profile. I do visit your page daily though and find you a very reliable source of opinion from the right and the comments and opinions of your audience above average, while still sufficiently amusing at times, of course.

The way I see it though is, when you guys made your decision to kill the legislation at all costs before the process had even began making clear that it made no difference what was proposed you were against it, it’s a little childish in the aftermath to whine and complain about how you weren’t listened to. You never wanted to be listened to, you wanted Obama’s “Waterloo” where you would in your moment of glory stifle the possibilities of his Presidency. Where you would push back the tide, deligitimize him and make it seem afterword as if he were never here and you’d start on his first major effort. Health care reform. Not a novel issue.

But you did. Before the process had even began you’d decided it was bad. Before anyone even knew what the congress would come up with you decided it was the death of America. You never had any intention of helping, aiding, or taking an active part in anything but the destruction of one of the President’s key initiatives.

Now you want to play the, they are listening to the American people card. No, they aren’t listening to YOU. You who decided it’s better politics for your ideology to kill the bill and try to maintain the status quo rather than have to adapt and govern in an America where someone else gets to make the decisions for a little while. It’s just an election cycle.

You’ve repeated these mantras to yourselves so much now about the death of America that many of you actually believe that aboutthis bill. But you started that whole internalized argument before anything was even discussed.

You’re feigned outrage is tiresome. But you can’t give up now. You believe it now. You’ve internalized the talking points.

Truth be told, I don’t like this bill either. I think we could have made something much much better for everyone. But, since one side decided to kill the bill to deligitimize an elected President, no Supreme Court required, rather than engage in any type of actual useul debate it’s a little harder. Because one side chose to amp up their base in opposition before the committee that THEY WOULD SIT ON had even been called to order, we’ll have to take what we can get.

I’m a leftist. I DO believe in SOME socialist principles and I AM an American. That being said I surely don’t like some of the things Obama has done. But hey, when you’ve got an un-elected minority who have decided to throw a wrench in the gears of America rather than let someone else make a decision, I’ll choose him any day.

But again, I know I know, I’m delusional. I’ve drank the kool-aid. He’s my messiah. I’m just an un-American commie who doesn’t deserve a voice in the affairs of this great nation, citizenship or not. And if I can’t see that the explanations you internalized before the debate even began are true than I’m too stupid for my own good. Obama is a dictator and it’s all a great big 100 year scam to steal away your country and victimize the good conservatives.

Will Erick leave it up? I mean, I’ve heard the readers say to people of my political persuasion why not sign up and debate.

Delete.

Complain and say Obama is just out to pass something no matter what the conservstives say need to remember, this is what YOU wanted. You wanted to test and break his presidency before it even got off the ground. You wanted this fight.

All of this could have gone down in an entirely different manner. But you wanted “Waterloo” instead.

Don’t complain if you loose at the game of brinksmanship that you initiated over the legitimacy of an elected American President.

Did Republicans choose the wrong strategy? Could this have gone down differently? I would say that many people don’t like what the Democrats have wrought with their health care reform strategy – even many Democrats. One could argue that Republicans don’t have any history of really trying to reform health care, so why should people take their suggestions seriously?

not a Marxist.

You’re mixing up your countries and your political philosophies.

Is the strategy that Erick is proposing designed to actually defeat the bill, or is it to set up the 2010 race for maximum Republican gain?

I’m not saying I wouldn’t welcome Republican gains in 2010, as I think the far left Dems need to be neutralized somewhat. But I don’t know if this strategy of “kill the bill” will actually succeed in killing the bill.

Can you say Thune Amendment?

To stop this bill, we need all of the Republicans to stick together and vote no against the bill. Does anyone think that’s going to happen? Not only is there no leadership in the Republican party, but there have been no penalties for those “moderate” Republican congressmen/senators who regularly vote to stab Americans in the back, who regularly vote to destroy freedom in this country, who regularly vote against the party platform, who regularly their own constituents, and on and on. Every election cycle we are told we “need” these “moderates” so that we can have a majority and a “big tent,” but like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown, the conservative agenda is continually undermined by these “moderate” Republicans who keep yanking the football away every time we get close to real reform and a return to the constitutional form of government that this nation was founded upon.

Does anyone really think that Olympia Snowe is going to vote against this monstrosity? She’s being heavily courted by Obama and other heavy-hitters in the Dem party. I’m betting she’ll cave, and that’ll be the that.

And how about the rest of our “moderate” senators with an R after their name? The Dems are going to bribe and promise anything to get some of them on board, and just as these “moderate” Republicans have stabbed Liberty in the back previously, I bet that a few will do so again and vote for Obamacare once the deal is sweetened enough for them.

However, lets say that the Republican senators all decide to toe the line and vote against this freedom crushing, financially destructive travesty of a bill. I don’t think the caucus will hold together, buy I may be wrong.

We STILL need a couple of Dems or Independent senators to cross over and vote against Obamacare. Do we really think that any of these rats are going to jump this particular drowning ship? Just because heads are going to roll with the voters, and some of these dogs are going to thrown out of office after the fact, we can be sure that they will be offered lucrative positions for their post-Senate career, and that the skids will be heavily greased with cash and any other promise that will get them to vote yes for cloture on this bill.

While its true that there are a number of Republicans who actually believe in the Constitution, who actually believe in Liberty, lets be realistic here and understand that the Democrats in office currently are almost all hard-left liberals, and, more importantly, they are out for themselves first and foremost. Do we really think any of these damned liars and traitors will actually vote against a bill that will hand the government control of a sixth of our national economy, over which they will have a tremendous amount of influence and power?

Not a chance.

One way or another, Obamacare is coming. All of these reports in the media that so-and-so senator has said he will vote against this bill are simply political theater to buy the Dems time to move this thing along. Every time we’ve heard “they don’t have the votes,” this freedom-devouring monster moves along to the next step in the process.

They may not get everything. There may be aspects of this bill that will be stripped out to please some, but the bulk of this bill is going to pass. And once the door is open, once a sixth of our national economy is nationalized, its just a matter of time before the stuff that got stripped out to assure passage will get put back in.

The government in this country already directly controls or has tremendous influence over broad swaths of our industries, corporations, institutions, culture, and American individuals. Health care is simply the nail in the coffin, and will do much to tie up many of the loose ends the socialists, communists, and radicals have been trying to implement since about the turn of the last century.

Our nation is already FAR along the road to serfdom. and the amount of public corruption is staggering and rank. Obamacare is not the “beginning of the end.” It is the last bit of weight that will tip this nation irrevocably to the side of tyrrany.

Its going to pass, and we should quit fooling ourselves about it.

Am I wrong in my opinion that the majority of Americans are against the current legislation dealing with health care?
If it is forced through, isn’t that Taxation without Representation?
We founded our entire country on this principle, among others.
If our Elected Representatives choose to work against our will, other than elections to come, do we have legal defense against anything they pass which is blatantly counter to our wishes?

Or have we already fulfilled the threshold of proper representation even though it is in direct opposition to our will?

So what?
that worn out line doesn’t phase them anymore.

Our turncoat politicians must be looking on to better paying positions in government and industry, and retirement after they leave office. We have what else to threaten with?
I don’t know.

Do these Democrate Senators and Represenatives not have any Fathers , Mothers, sisters, brothers or children that live in the USA? If so, why are they hell bent on desroying our country? This is nothing but a Socialist take over.
This is not a health care bill. They left out all the health care fixes. Every body
is aware of this except the brillaint Democrats. This makes me sick at my stomach just to watch this go down. Seems like I am living on another planet.

I have a strategy: Put the pressure right in Evan Bayh’s own hands. Somehow, his Blackberry address has been leaked. Email him before he changes it.

http://hoosierpundit.blogspot.com/2009/11/evan-bayhs-direct-email-leaked-on.html

For the redstate readers for a vigorous debate today while I did my laundry.

Obviously, I don’t portend to have the ability to change any of you, only to put my perspective out there too and communicate rather than go to our own little walled off compounds to circle jerk about “the enemy”.

Again, I read daily, and must admit the caliber of responses here are much higher than you can find on Fox News forums or WND.

I know I know. You don’t like me. I drank the kool-aid and Obama’s my messiah and all. But I like you guys. It was enjoyable.

Some of you really have some sense and political acumen. I like an respect that even when it’s opposed to me. It’s only the over the top attempts to make things appear apocalyptically worse than they really are that get me.

Thank you Redstate. I mean that honestly. My favorite righties for sure.

That’s why I’m a firm believer in the air war in politics, because I believe unless reminded, the voters will forget, unless shown, the voters will not see, unless our side explains, the voters will believe what the Democrats and their pals in the MSM say.

SteveLA asked an excellent question related to this; “The problem is with the Democrats and the MSM controlling the news cycle, how do Republicans put forth their answers in a way that gets some press coverage?” The GOP needs to invest in a flood the zone ad campaign. We need a massive donations programme where every dollar is exclusively dedicated to defeating this legislation.

eb@bayh.senate.gov

Working on your payoff??
I expect that’s all you care about. If a health care vote is worth 300 million in LA…golly…
I consider it taxation without representation.
Didn’t we fight a war over that?
And the American people overwhelmingly reject this package.
Actually, what you are doing amounts to treason, and should be treated as such.
Thanks,
Mark

…or vice versa? In other words, not splitting the Senate Democrats, but rather splitting the Senate Dems from House Dems.

How risky of a strategy is this and what are the chances of it succeeding? Are the examples of this being done in the past?

Not saying I agree with this, but as an example,,,One scenario could be to have the Senate bill with the Stupak Amendment, but it not ending up in the House version.

Sen. Michael Bennet, a junior Democrat who will be seeking his first full term next year in Colorado, where many districts lean conservative, said he would support the health care overhaul even if doing so means losing his seat.

So what can we do with these crazies? If they are going to proceed to be suicide bombers…how can you defend against that mentality?
They don’t give a hoot what the constituents sent them to do…
and by the time they come up for election, we have irreversible damage.

“As I have said before, if Republicans work to improve the legislation, they presuppose its passage. Instead, the GOP should plan for the destruction of the bill by offering amendments designed to divide and fracture the Democrat coalition.”

I couldn’t agree more with this statement. There are going to be plenty of opportunites to exploit the schisms on the left.

Exhibit A: Abortion.

Hopefully we learned our lesson from the House debate that Stupak’s amendment was mere cover for several on the fence Dems. We can’t let that happen again.

Killing this bill is all that’s important. We need to be on the same page with that.

Russ

Peter Orzsag has pretty much come out and stated that the Senate bill is what the administration wants. The House bill is more for the base.

I believe the Democrats will overcome their differences. I don’t think the abortion issue will play that big a role. The public option is the biggest stumbling block, but the Senate Democrats who don’t want the public option are still in favor of much of what’s in the Reid or Baucus bill. The leadership will either drop the public option or enact a trigger. And that will ensure its passage.

And we will have a much worse bill than we would have had if Republicans had participated in the process. But, who knows, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins could sign on if the inducements are good enough, and Obama will have his bipartisan bill.

Republicans would have to drive up the negatives higher than they are right now in order to influence public opinion against the bill to the point where certain more vulnerable Democrats simply could not support it.

Hopefully the bill will be killed or schismed to death. The final vote on cloture (if it came to that) would also have to happen before the unlikely R winner would be sworn in.

The opportunity/incentive to buy votes will become commonplace now that so many dollars are at stake. It means that any Senator could be bought off even if it means losing his/her seat. It is a lot cheaper to quietly guarantee an income for life for a Senator who is liable to lose his/her re-election bid than come up with $300 million for “her” district.
The only solution going forward will be term limits.

So death of a thousand cuts by legislative obfuscation is the strategy? What is the objective? Do we expect to metagrobolize Democrats brains so they wander aimlessly until the next election? It sounds to me like the same people that helped construct our venture into the wilderness are responsible for the latest foray into self-immolation.

It is clear that all Democrats and so-called independents including Joe Lieberman have their asking price. So, I would say that someone grotesquely underestimated the opposition and our future picture is bleak- not terminal or predetermined, but bleak. Eventually, Democrats will probably pass some version of healthcare destruction irrespective of how long it takes, and in the process perhaps garner votes of Republican outliers like Snowe.

Even if Democrats are sent back to the minority, they know Republicans will never get the 60 votes they currently have. Accordingly, any effort to roll this back will get treated to the same type of minority obfuscation Democrats used a few years back (funny, Republicans can’t seem to manage this currently- what does that say about the “leaders”). Special thanks to John, Mitch and useless organizations like the NRCC/NRSC for letting this monstrosity progress.

So welcome to the age of destructive healthcare where government, courtesy of the Democrats destroys the public market, dictates your healthcare choices, pulls the plug on “grandma, dictates what research/treatments are permitted, uses your tax money to pay for non-citizens, puts you in jail for not buying their coverage and gains control over the life and death decisions of your family- all against the will of our American voting public.

Good luck with that.

The only way to improve this bill is to offer amendments striking certain provisions. But you have to be able to back up why they are bad provisions.

The Democrats want to lower premiums. But increasing regulation only adds to bottom line costs. This bill creates an unusually harsh regulatory environment.

The Democrats say they don’t want to put private insurers out of business. But forcing them to give rebates to people who underutilize insurance while having to cover people with huge healthcare usage, will put them out of business.

Quoted from and Linked to at:
WE’RE SURROUNDED
—–
It’s Time To ROC ‘N’ ROLL:
Restore Our Constitution & Restore Our Lost Liberties

backbone to do this, which is why we need to weed out the thin-skinned, big-tent RINOs.

Capitalizing on the Dems weak points is a great idea, since they are blinded by their faux altruism.

I’m more concerned with the division in the Republican party, but with any luck, we’ll have time to sort this out.