Brian Faughnan noted the other day that up until this year Democrats have been pretty open that the “public option” was intended to be a back door into universal socialized healthcare.
Barney Frank, too, has pretty strongly hinted at that.
Up in Pennsylvania, Chris Carney, a liberal Democrat who tries his best to seem moderate, kind of sort of let slip in a town hall that, in fact, he favors the full socialization of the American healthcare system and views the public option as a back door to universal healthcare.
Rather, Mr. Carney said, he wants a bill that ensures insurance companies must cover pre-existing conditions and allows people to take their health care coverage with them if they change jobs, a concept known as transportability.
“A public option is something that may get us what we really want,” he said.
What does Chris Carney really want? Well, the language of the legislation itself provides a roadmap to what Carney wants.
Under the Democrats’ plan, businesses will get a $4,000 per worker incentive to push people onto government healthcare. (SOURCE)
Additionally, individuals who leave their current insurer for any reason – whether it be moving to a different state or changing to a different employer – will be forced to purchase a new government-approved private plan or to enroll in the government-run, taxpayer-funded “public option” for their health coverage. (SOURCE)
It all leads to socialized, universal healthcare. This is all in the legislation.
Carney, by the way, was at a townhall recently acting like he has read the bill. When people told him what is in the bill, he replied that the issue “is not in the bill.” Only later did he say, “The bill has not been written yet.”
Moe Lane
Steve Maley
Dan McLaughlin
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
Universal Healthcare
hakon Tuesday, August 25th at 6:28PM EST (link)You make Universal Healthcare sound like a swear word.. What is it that you really want? -Healthcare for a few lucky ones?
Few?
Steph C (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 6:38PM EST (link)85% is a few?
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
Few?
hakon Tuesday, August 25th at 6:48PM EST (link)Ok, so a lot of people have decent healthcare. But I still wonder what is wrong with Universal Healthcare? I can understand that people are afraid of the scary government taking too much control of their life, but I can not see what is wrong with healthcare for all? Can you explain?
No, hakon, we're mad at people like you who try to infantilize our positions...
Moe Lane (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 6:55PM EST (link)…because you can’t conceive of people disagreeing with you for non-base motives.
You will now apologize to Steph C for your rudeness. Next post – and no “Sorry if you were offended.”
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
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My (combined) wish list.
Excuse me
hakon Tuesday, August 25th at 7:08PM EST (link)Excuse me..? I was actually hoping to listen to what you have to say about Universal Healthcare.. I assume someone else can provide a more interesting answer than you did..
Anyone else care to answer my question above?
Thanks for understanding!
Oh, and if Steph C think that I was rude to him, I will apologize. It was truly not my intentions to be rude.. And when it comes to you Moe Lane, I am terribly sorry if you were offended..
here's your answer for "Universal Deathcare" bureaucracy, end of story-nt
DONTREADONME (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:31PM EST (link)Bzzzt! Wrong answer, hakon.
Moe Lane (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:37PM EST (link)The right answer was “I’m sorry that I was rude to Steph C.”
Bye.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
hakon: First of all, what makes you think anyone here is against "healthcare for all"?
Martin Knight (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:32PM EST (link)And what makes you think Government-run “Universal Healthcare” i.e. ObamaCare, will actually provide “healthcare for all”?
What he said was universal socialized healthcare.
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:04PM EST (link)Big difference. But both are unacceptable. As for the reasons why, if you weren’t so intellectually lazy, you could find out by simply reading this site. But you, like most bleeding heart liberals, you will probably refuse to educate yourself.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
About the few "lucky" ones.
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:09PM EST (link)Those of us who went to school and got an education and started a career BEFORE we took on additional financial obligations, got married BEFORE we had children, and then waited to have children until we could AFFORD to care for them, are NOT lucky. We’re conservatives.
Those of us who lived within our means and actually saved and invested during the recent historic economic expansion, are NOT lucky. We’re conservatives.
Those of us who rely on family and church, as opposed to government, to give us support in tough times are NOT lucky. We’re conservatives.
Cry me a river about the “unlucky few.”
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
Back to the topic please?
hakon Tuesday, August 25th at 7:14PM EST (link)Yeah, you’re a hero, I understand..
I am sorry I decided to dive into this discussion. I thought I would get interesting replies, but the only relevant comment so far was the “85%” one from Steph C..
You see hakon, that's why no one here will take you seriously.
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:22PM EST (link)You took my comment as bragging. It wasn’t. That’s a NORMAL every day approach to life for most of us.
What kind of person mocks those who do the right thing, as “heros”?
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
Why don't you educate us as to US what is so wonderful about "universal healthcare?" Hmmm? nt
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:24PM EST (link)“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
Hakon, while you're at it
Richard Mullins (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:32PM EST (link)why don’t explain yourself more clearly. Because it seems that you don’t have anything explain your position other than say your reason for Single-payer is because of those that don’t have healthcare. It seems that you’re not seeing to other point of view(that is other than you own). I’m starting to believe you are a bot and a person.
Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
Socialists
10ksnooker (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:17PM EST (link)Want socialism?
Naw not really, what they really want is FDR Fascism.
Let’s be precise with our words. As Limbaugh said on today’s show.
Rush also said something about Obamafood.
Steph C (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 7:58PM EST (link)I guess he hasn’t gotten that far into H.R. 3200 because pg 935&936 says the government will identify specific goals and objectives for prevention and wellness activities and will develop “Healthy People and National Public Performance Standards.
Courtesy of: http://familyrights.us/news/archive/2009/august/detailed_analysis_1000_page_health_bill.html
It sure helps to have a print out of that list when arguing with some people.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
SINGLE PAYER & UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE
beanerecmo Tuesday, August 25th at 8:24PM EST (link)We have single payer healthcare; it’s called Medicare/Medicaid. Of the $750+ billion spent on both of those; $300+ billion is estimated to fraudulent charges, And, we want to turn even more dominion to the government bureaucracy? Why don’t they (we) work on fixing those programs first, as well as social security and illegal immigration. And, no, taking more money out of those programs to fund more of H.R. 3200 is not saving money; it’s a shell game.
We actually have Universal Healthcare. Those with insurance are covered; those without are covered by trips to the ER and/or free clinics – just ask California how that’s working. But, why should the whole healthcare system be overhauled for 15% of the people who can still get care at those places? We do not have enough healthcare professionals as it is. And, if we go the wage and price control route; it will have the same results as when FDR, Nixon and Carter tried it.
Let’s look at the cost of preventive care. There are many studies out there (one of which is www.ncpa.org/pub/ba188) that state it’s just not worth it. Those are numbers, irrespective of the personal nature of the issue. The resulting quality of life is not addressed. But, from and fiduciary point of view; preventive care costs more than the results are worth. Coldly, spoken, most healthcare is for people over 65; hence, the end-of-life counseling panels are set up to save money as Oregon’s panel was – no medication for the illness, but we have a prescription for you to commit suicide. Further, the VA ‘Death Pamphlet’ is now directed to be used. And, in it’s not so subtle way, tells the vet that if he or she is a burden, why don’t you just off yourself and quit being a burden to your family and society.
People say that insurance companies ration coverage. People are not forced to go with one company or the other; they must read and get clarification from the companies on what is and is not covered. It’s called due diligence. There are insurance coverages for pre-existing conditions. Is it expensive, yes; it’s higher risk. It is just like auto or homeowners insurance; the higher the risk, the higher premium, but it is an individual choice. I am my brother’s (sister’s) keeper; the government is not. More bluntly put, I don’t want to pay for some ne’er-do-well’s insurance. They made choices that put them in their situation, as I have made choices that put me in my situation. I am not going to allow the government to punish or reward me for my choices, and I expect the same consideration for the ne’er-do-wells.
I was a liberal until I learned to read, got a job and was mugged by willful tax and spend regressives (aka progressives) and naive acolytes.
Carney
proudgop (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 8:26PM EST (link)Carney needs to go down his district is Republican and he is liberal.
Yet, Republicans still don’t have top tier candidate
Send the man
DerKrieger (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 8:52PM EST (link)…a copy of the Constitution. I’ve said many times and will say it again. If we don’t draw a Constitutional line in the sand here and now, forget the bill’s details, we may as well throw it out because it will have lost all meaning. We need to fight this outrage on Constitutional grounds.
“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison
Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690
The Constitution
DerKrieger (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 8:57PM EST (link)Rush and Mark Levin both discussed the Constitutionality of Obamacare yesterday. Finally getting the right message out.
“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison
Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690
Majority of doctor's won't accept new patients under government plan
izoneguy (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 9:06PM EST (link)Majority of doctor’s won’t accept new patients under government plan
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/25/doctors-ready-to-just-say-no/?source=newsletter_opinion_headlines
President Obama has said over and over that if you like your doctor you’ll be able to keep your doctor. This is patently false. If a physician opts not to sign on to a government-run option, and the government-run plan is what you’re stuck with, you will lose your doctor. It’s as simple and as terrible as that.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Basically they will say if you want to accept
cclive Tuesday, August 25th at 9:19PM EST (link)Medicare or Medicaid patients then you’ll have to accept everyone else on the government option. Thats a good number of people and doctors won’t want to loose that business. They did the same thing with the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act.
And why did you just copy and paste your comment? Because in your link, commenter dolly1213 makes the exact same comment or are you dolly1213? Just curious.
No, I am not dolly123
izoneguy (Diary) Tuesday, August 25th at 10:03PM EST (link)That was the 2nd to the last paragraph from the article…..
Doctors are already declining to take MediCare & MediCade patients.
Most doctors are also running business’s. If private insurers are forced out by government insurance then many doctors would have to close their doors. Most doctors are not multi-millionaires that can lose hundreds of thousands of dollars each year they work. And much of the overhead of a doctors business is dealing with government paperwork. National Health Care will dictate what a doctor will charge and add the burden of even more paperwork,
a lose – lose for the doctors. Most doctors are pretty smart and would have to go work in other fields to support their own families. The end result will be a 3rd rate healthcare system – run & staffed by younger inexperienced people. And then we come back to those “un-insured”. They will be even more desperate because now they will have problems just finding a doctor – much less getting treated by one. The left never admit to the unintended consquences that “Universal HealthCare” will have.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
That would depend n if they are running their own private practice
cclive Wednesday, August 26th at 12:16AM EST (link)or work for a hospital. If they work for a hospital most likely they have to accept Medicare and Medicaid. Again review the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act.
The hospitals are cutting their own deals
izoneguy (Diary) Wednesday, August 26th at 8:38AM EST (link)http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/hospitals-see-profits-in-white-house-deal/
But some experts wonder at the price of that political support. Alain Enthoven, a health economist at Stanford University, noted that $155 billion was only about 1.5 percent of total hospital revenue over 10 years — even before taking into account the new, larger amount of money that hospitals can expect if more people have insurance.
——————————————————————————————
So what are the doctors going to do when their salaries get slashed? Join SEIU and go on strike every three months?
——————————————————————————————
German doctors strike raises fundamental political questions
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/aug2006/doct-a03.shtml
For more than four weeks local doctors from 700 German hospitals have been on strike against ever worsening conditions of work in the form of unpaid overtime, unpaid additional paperwork and the dismantling of social gains.
In a ballot held at the end of June, 97 percent of unionised physicians voted for strike action. This latest action follows the 13-week-long strike by 22,000 physicians at university hospitals, who had also fought for better conditions of work and higher salaries. An estimated 70,000 local doctors are now involved in the latest strike.
The strike by physicians is significant because it is indicative of the shape of future social conflicts. An increasing army of highly-qualified technicians, engineers and scientists are confronted with very similar problems.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
No, just go into mprivate practice -nt
cclive Wednesday, August 26th at 10:08AM EST (link)No wonder they're avoiding town halls
GOPMOM Wednesday, August 26th at 9:25AM EST (link)Every time they speak, they let the cat out of the bag.
Tomorrow night (8/27) a self proclaimed pro-life Rep in MA is holding a Town Hall (Lynch, D-MA). The questions re: HR 3200 and abortion should be very interesting.
I say let them speak. Every time they speak, our side gains more voters.
And make sure you share that 1.7% of hospital revenue goes unpaid stat in comparison to the 1.5% kickback with everyone. To hear the Dems tell it, hospitals are going broke due to unpaid bills – the same bills that are bankrupting so many Americans apparently. We can not let them win the war of statistics.