[I'll save you the trouble and give you the carlgordon cliff's notes: "I'm on dope and I hate gays and Christians." – NS]

and Byrd would have been chatted with to DIE by know. They of course will NOT because they are BETTER than the other elderly in our society. I question where in world is the AARP and their members in this writing of their DEMISE. If the elderly are encouraged to DIE who will be paying the due’s of the AARP? no one as they will encouraged to DIE!!!

Obama decided to let the eugenics portion of the left with their strong desire for population control to write the bill and they are putting all of their HITLER dreams into one bill…abortion on demand for new populations and consultation to die for the old populations….in one fell swoop all of these 30-60 year olds have made the move to end all other populations EXCEPT themselves, interesting!

I am overtaxed at every turn to fuel a burgeoning budget. Children dress like prostitots. Partial birth abortion is a “right.” They want to take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, but coddle criminals. I got not dignity left to die with.

Everyone should have an advanced medical directive laying out their wishes. However, that is a decision between the person, the doctor and family members. Government needs to keep their noses out of it.

Interesting how any liberal will argue their head off about mandatory counseling for women who want an abortion but take a different tone entirely when it comes to senior citizens who will be a drag on the system. The hypocrisy is mind boggling.

by price. It is the most efficient mechanism there is. Indeed, this is the basic problem with the system now, consumers are too insulated from the price to make educated choices. People choose insurance coverage that best meets their needs, expected needs, and budget. Government deciding willy-nilly that this or that is too expensive is a recipie for disaster. Charities provide for numerous procedures, therapies, and drugs, and this should be encouraged, not discouraged,as is the Obama plan. Drug companies routinely help those with limited incomes afford medicines. But stripping all this away and allowing Obamacare to make these decisions is completely irrational.

I find it odd that liberals (or any bureaucrat for that matter) don’t see a need to justify government programs every few years, yet under ObamaCare, we will have to justify our life to a doctor every few years.

If we have to justify our existence and the healthcare that entails, at least we can force government programs to do the same.

Not that I like any of it, of course. It’s bad enough my life will be judged by the Almighty after I die, but now I’ll be judged beforehand by the Government as well.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534050,00.html?test=latestnews

My prayers with the family.

However, once we have government doctors treating everyone, there will be no recourse for anyone when a doctor screws up. For every BS malpractice lawsuit, there is one of these. Do we really want to take away the people’s right to hold doctor’s accountable for their screw ups?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534050,00.html?test=latestnews

My prayers with the family.

However, once we have government doctors treating everyone, there will be no recourse for anyone when a doctor screws up. For every BS malpractice lawsuit, there is one of these. Do we really want to take away the people’s right to hold doctor’s accountable for their screw ups?

My girlfriend, when she was a pre-teen, was told she wouldn’t live to see 21.

In a couple weeks we’ll be celebrating her 35th.

Doctors make mistakes, lots of them. The last thing in the world we want is to have those mistakes enforced by the federal government.

Obamacare is just another attempt to detach actions from consequences and reassign winners and losers based on someone’s warped sense of “fairness.”

We ALREADY pay for the healthcare of the uninsured, that’s one of the main reasons it’s so expensive.

When a gang-banger gets shot up, we spend millions to fix him up so he can,…… wait for it……., return to the streets and get shot up again or shoot someone else up, again requiring millions for care.

Under Obama, it will be more “fair”. If you have kidney problems and you’re over 55, you’re too old for dialysis. Sorry.

See how fair that is?

It makes him look, well, rational. The thread he works is largely a logical one. Ultimately healthcare is always rationed, and someone has to make the hard choice of how much can be spent to save one life. Under the current system, those decisions are most frequently made by the insurance companies, and the rest of us more or less live with them. They are mostly made in the fashion he outlines. Only occasionally are they made outside those parameters.

Frankly, I trust the bean counters at the insurance companies to make more compassionate decisions about end of life conditions than I do any Congress critter. But at least the insurance company doesn’t require suicide indoctrination classes every 5 years.

But I think the most important factor in our current system, is that you aren’t necessarily beholden to the decisions of the insurance company bean counters. You can, if you’ve made enough money, pay for it yourself. You might be able to find a charitable group to help you with your medical problem. A drug company might elect to provide you with the treatment at their cost (still gets spread around to everybody afterward). And that chance of hope makes all the difference in the world. Especially to people like Finrod’s girlfriend and the gentleman I mentioned above.

Don’t you know it’s time to step up, time to get some skin in the game?

Sarcasm off.

God help us.

This is from my website in response to this post.
——-
Posted July 20th, 2009 by admin

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/07/20/democrats-want-to-teach-you-to-die-with-dignity/

This drives me nuts. Ted Kennedy is an old man, suffering from poor health and is arguably WAY past his prime. For that matter so is Robert Byrd and I’m shading a little toward Specter to make it a threesome (How much did his treatments cost? He is sixty nine after all.)

These men, all democrats (Don’t harp on the Specter being a former Republican, he was as much a Republican as I was a starting guard in the NBA.) have received the best medicine money and their great insurance can buy. None of their treatments were denied. In Britain, Kennedy’s would have been denied, it would be too expensive and Kennedy is too old. Yet, here we sit having them design a healthcare program that will guarantee that result for the rest of us.

If you want to impress me Ted Kennedy, then do E.G. Marshall “Sol” moment and take you two friends with you.–(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbJTBBoDFH0&feature=related)

Short of that, don’t bother me with your opinion on how much I’m worth, my father is worth, or my children are worth.

Idiot.

Please check out this website. If enough people find out about this, we can kill this healthcare trainwreck. Menendez needs to be booted out of office for this.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/06/red-alert-la-raza-if-american-people.html

Erick… this is the part in section 1233 of HR 3200 that bothers me:

====================================================
H.R. 3200

Sec. 1233. ADVANCED CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
…
(b) EXPANSION OF PHYSICIAN QUALITY REPORTING INITIATIVE FOR END OF LIFE CARE.
(1) PHYSICIAN’S QUALITY REPORTING INITIATIVE.—
Section 1848(k)(2) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–4(k)(2)) is amended
by adding at the end the following new paragraphs:

(3) PHYSICIAN’S QUALITY REPORTING INITIATIVE.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of reporting data on quality measures for covered professional services furnished during 2011 and any subsequent year, to the extent that measures are available, the Secretary shall include quality measures on end of life care and advanced care planning that have been adopted or endorsed by a
consensus-based organization, if appropriate. Such measures shall measure both the creation of and adherence to orders for life-sustaining treatment.
(B) PROPOSED SET OF MEASURES.—
The Secretary shall publish in the Federal Register proposed quality measures on end of life care and advanced care planning that the Secretary determines are described in subparagraph (A) and would be appropriate for eligible professionals to use to submit data to the Secretary. The Secretary shall provide for a period of public comment on such set of measures before finalizing such proposed measures.
====================================================

Having worked in multinational corporations for decades, anytime I see the words “quality reporting”, “measures”, “metrics”, etc…. that causes flags to start going up in my head. The translation for this is that whatever metrics are adopted (notice they aren’t putting that in here right now), there will be continuous improvement metrics associated with the measurements.

So, if one of the metrics is how many seniors are essentially euthanized versus being placed on life-extending treatments, the continuous improvement will be there needs to be an ever higher percentage of seniors being euthanized over time. If a facility is not meeting the metrics for a specific time period, they will have their funding cut.

It is one thing to have a set of advanced directives in place. My wife and I already have that. I went through that with both my grandmother and my father. So, I understand not wanting doctors to keep you on some machine when there is no hope… and not placing family members in situations where they have to make the gut-wrenching decisions I never communicated to anyone.

But, with the above paragraphs, I can tell where this is heading in a government-controlled system. It is basically a way to systematically kill off the senior population.

Bottom line is that there is fear we will overwhelm the system. Not just what it will cost to warehouse us in Alzheimer’s facilities, but the Social Security we’ll collect until we kick.

This isn’t about improving health care. It’s about grabbing money, something liberats do SO well.

I read recently that the average doctor spends all of seven minutes with a patient during an annual checkup. How long will they spend with a senior on their five-year “why-don’t-you-go-ahead-and-die?” interview?

In the book, and movie, Logan’s Run, after a certain age you were expected to go quietly into that good night. Isn’t that just what this nonsense really is? We are going to have boards who decide when you must give up the ghost. There will also be boards that decide whether or not that child you carry can come to term or not. That’s definately next. After all, special needs children are very expensive to society and they are good producers. You wait, they will make it so doctors won’t get paid if they don’t counsel and insist on abortions. These people have no morals whatsoever. Forcing an abortion is the least of their worries.

Except not too many people would recognize the difference. The Dems would just take another empty suit off the rack.

If there is any point at which you say, “No, an extra six months isn’t worth that much,” then you think that health care should be rationed.

The stuff that went before this presupposes that as more of this ‘Sutent’ is used, the cost won’t go down. In fact, as more patients needed it, it would cost less. In a liberal world, economics are static and analysis is simple.

Lupron is a rather expensive treatment for prostate cancer symptoms at about $2500 for three months. It’s covered by some plans, maybe not by all. Is it provided in Canada?

…by a supposedly civilized nation since the mid 1930s when the official government line in Germany was that Germany could no longer afford to keep those unproductive handicapped veterans wounded in The Great War around any longer. Just wasn’t good for The Third Reich.
“When they came for the Jews, I said nothing.
When they came for the Gypsies, I said nothing.
Then the came for the Catholics and again I said nothing.
Then they came for me!”

It’s always interesting to watch “conservatives” get up in arms about the value of life. Such selective outrage. The Republican Party controls Texas lock, stock, and barrel, but there’s no peep from any of you about the Texas Futile Care Law, which disconnects poor people from life support. It was used during the Teri Schiavo case to kill someone, but somehow the Christian Right didn’t want to notice.

Oh, and where are all the “conservative” protests about the HMOs and insurance companies that kill patients and policyholders by refusing care? It’s okay if the efficient private sector kills people, but if the government does it then it’s a problem, right?

n/t

would be cheaper and I’m sure before it’s over that will become a talking point as well.

When I heard Obama talk about the end of life experience and the treatments that would withheld I couldn’t believe my ears. Withhold simple treatments like antibiotics,fluids,and make them comfortable. More often than not fluids and potassium are life saving inexpensive treatments,but death would come much quicker without them. What a cold way to say that our elderly are useless and need to die to save the government money. Obama’s true colors are showing.

would be cheaper and I’m sure before it’s over that will become a talking point as well.

When I heard Obama talk about the end of life experience and the treatments that would withheld I couldn’t believe my ears. Withhold simple treatments like antibiotics,fluids,and make them comfortable. More often than not fluids and potassium are life saving inexpensive treatments,but death would come much quicker without them. What a cold way to say that our elderly are useless and need to die to save the government money. Obama’s true colors are showing.

that liberals are willing to spend millions a year keeping murderers and rapists alive (as opposed to the one-time cost of permanent removal), but jump eagerly at the chance to slaughter the unborn and euthanize the elderly…?

I pity the fool that gives that talk…

On the day that a government spokesperson comes to me and says it’s time to pass the torch (for all time) — I will draw my sword and kill that person where they stand, and anoint myself with their blood.

I will pay for my own care and maintenance. If they outlaw my choice / ability to buy my own treatments I will lead the march on DC with the walker brigade…

And once that position is noted and they decide to send an agent to my house, he will be told ONCE that my wife and I are adults, who neither need nor want nor will tolerate under any circumstances the government having ANYTHING whatsoever to do with, or ANY interest in our end of life issues. If he does anything but leave immediately he will be staring down the barrel of a suitable piece of hardware and being advised that he is the one rapidly approaching an end of life issue.

As bad as the rest of the Obama agenda is, for some reason this issue incenses me more than most others.

I’m curious, does this also mean that anyone who lives their life carelessly, i.e. smokes, is an alcoholic, mountain climbs, scuba dives, or engages in certain types of homosexual high risk activities should be barred from treatment since it’s essentially ‘their own fault’?

What is the cost/benefit of AIDS treatments? or bypass surgery? Liver transplants? Hip replacement at, say the age of 78?

Obama smokes…. should we ignore any lung issues he develops? If his wife gains weight over the years (quite possible I’d think) should we deny her care because she was irresponsible? What about Ted Kennedy…..his treatments are surely not going to add much time to his life…should they are stopped in the name of cost in this health care and economic crisis? Senator Byrd is a very old man….he has been in and out of the hospital for the past years, and is barely able to walk…. was it ‘worth it’.?

If we are a ‘decent’ people and don’t think like Nazi Germany; of course these people should be given the dignifity of care and life sustaining help. It is not Obama’s, nor Nancy Pelosi’s, nor Harry Reid’s, nor monsters like Pete Singer’s right to decide for anyone but themselves. Religions of the world have taught us to cherish life and in my world God condemns those that do not.

Who are these monsters who think they can control life itself?

["...not because it stops the screaming, but because I don't know any other way to cry for help."]

[Alas, we don't do therapy. Sorry. - ML]