Warning Signs Abound for Charlie Crist


Good on Lee County Republican voters. There was a straw poll in this all important battleground for the GOP Senate nomination. The straw poll was put on by the Republican Executive Committee. The result? Rubio crushed Crist.

Lee County’s Republican Executive Committee’s straw poll last week that had members preferring U.S. Senate candidate Marco Rubio over Gov. Charlie Crist by a 60-11 margin sent ripples around the state’s political waters.

It’s hardly a fraction of Lee County voters, or even a full committee, which can have two members for each of Lee County’s 170 voting precincts. But it’s active Republicans, and was enough to spur a fast response from U.S. Rep. Connie Mack IV, R-Fort Myers, assuring recipients that despite the vote he believes most Southwest Florida Republicans support Crist.

Note that Connie Mack, IV is supporting Crist. Mack’s wife, you will recall, voted for cap and trade. Crist supported the stimulus and, one can reasonably expect, will one day flip-flop on cap and trade.

We should really take out Connie Mack, IV when we take out Charlie Crist next year.


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Ask the Man Who's On One

Robert A. Hahn (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 3:45PM EST (link)

It might amaze some people that a county R executive committee would be this far out of touch with the RPOF, which endorsed Crist before there even were any straw polls, let alone a primary.

However, as more of these polls roll in, my hunch is that what will amaze is how far out of touch the RPOF is from the county executive committees.

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you’re dead.

They'll get the message...

roscopico (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 1:08PM EST (link)

Or wither deservedly and at long last.

I don’t care what level, R’s MUST GET THE MESSAGE. There are more “conservatives” than “R’s”… We own THEM. They ignore at their own peril?

The question is, who serves whom? Should the R’s expect support when they keep cramming these squishes down our throats?

Im Himmel gibt’s kein Bier…

 

The problem is..

conteach (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 1:36PM EST (link)

The RPOF is completely out of touch with a LARGE portion of extremely disaffected Florida voters who want to support the GOP but after the RNC put up John McCain as our last best hope and then the Republican Senatorial Committee endorsed Crist on day one along with the RPOF, we are losing heart. We want someone who can understand what it is to struggle and raise a family. We want someone who believes that Individual and State rights come before the Federal Govt. We want someone who can work with both sides and get things done. We want someone who NEEDS our support and is not so smug in his electability that he doesn’t even think he needs us working class stiffs! And yes, most of us want someone who believes that this is the greatest country on earth, that there is a God and He is watching to see how we protect this Divine Experiment, that Life begins at conception and above all, that BUDGETS MUST BE BALANCED and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT sliced and diced down to some reasonable non-bullying size.

That man is Marco Rubio. I hope Charlie Crist stays in the race and loses and leaves the political process entirely. I will be devoting 150% of my energies to seeing that happen.

 

Tick Tock

farstar99 (Diary) Sunday, July 19th at 1:53AM EST (link)

Start the clock.

When’s Connie Mack up?
Exactly, I mean.
Down to the hour.

 
 

The meaning of this is obvious

bk (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 3:48PM EST (link)

The NRSC needs to launch anti-Rubio attack ads and push polls.

 

Go Rubio!!!

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 3:49PM EST (link)

Reap it Crist!!! Reap the fricken whirlwind!!!

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Amen Brutha! nt

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 7:26PM EST (link)
The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

Ditto!

6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 9:18PM EST (link)
 

It never ceases to amaze me

Frozen_Man (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 4:06PM EST (link)

how often the “elite” regardless of the political level don’t seem to understand their constituency and what they want and desire.

_____________________________________________________________
“This year, or this month, or, more likely, this very day, we have failed to practice ourselves the kind of behavior we expect from other people.” C. S. Lewis

“Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” – Ronald Reagan

“Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.” – C. S. Lewis

They understand

DerKrieger (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 9:36PM EST (link)

They just don’t care.

“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison

Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690

It's More Like, "They Do Know. They Just Think They Know 'Better'" (nt)

IJB Friday, July 17th at 9:46PM EST (link)
 
 

Crist and money

lions Friday, July 17th at 4:28PM EST (link)

Crist has huge backing money wise, that will be difficult to beat. I would say pay for play type. Though that should not be surprising in this day in age. These backers with the money need someone they can count on politcally especially in the age of Obama. I want Rubio to win, and I will vote for him though Rubio really needs to get around the state and better known so that backing Crist has will move to Rubio. Not saying Rubio will play that game, but I would like to see that money for Crist sit on the sidelines.

 

Crist, crust, money, and Carl Gordon

carlgordon Friday, July 17th at 4:47PM EST (link)

What we deny is not death but the awareness that, before we die, nothing is going to happen. That big vague thing, that redemptive fulfillment, is an illusion, a beckoning bribe to keep us loyal. A symphony has a climax, a poem builds to a burst of meaning, but we are unfinished business. No coming together of strands. The game is called because of darkness.

 

Crist, crust, money, and Carl Gordon

carlgordon Friday, July 17th at 4:47PM EST (link)

What we deny is not death but the awareness that, before we die, nothing is going to happen. That big vague thing, that redemptive fulfillment, is an illusion, a beckoning bribe to keep us loyal. A symphony has a climax, a poem builds to a burst of meaning, but we are unfinished business. No coming together of strands. The game is called because of darkness.

Uhmmm.... are you speaking in some kind of code?

janis (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 5:00PM EST (link)

If so, could you please produce the key to the code?

I think he said that Crist's chickens are coming home to roost

Scope (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 5:48PM EST (link)

Does that make better sense- Naw, I didn’t think so! I guess we can all make up our own deep meaning of Carl’s comment.

 

I think he said that Crist's chickens are coming home to roost

Scope (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 5:48PM EST (link)

Does that make better sense- Naw, I didn’t think so! I guess we can all make up our own deep meaning of Carl’s comment.

 
 

Say what?? nt

TNJim (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 5:11PM EST (link)

Activism: What to do after the TEA party rally. Unified Patriots

 
 

Maybe Sen Cornyn will take notice and change the NRSC

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 4:51PM EST (link)

policy of endorsing Crist in the primary. Rubio is clearly the better candidate.

And I look forward to meeting him in Atlanta!

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lets continue to purge the party of turncoats, not all moderates...

kyle8 (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 5:20PM EST (link)

just those who turn on the party in ways like voting for the stimulus bill or other important legislation like that. We just can’t put up with it anymore.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 

Have there been any Crist vs. Rubio polls recently?

scarlos (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 5:33PM EST (link)

The continued Economic failures have got to be hurting Crist, both as an incumbent, and as a person who actively campaigned for the Act.

Also, Rubio’s name recognition was still low in the last poll, and it should have improved a bit by now.

Socialism is Oligarchy in disguise

Teflon Charlie

Robert A. Hahn (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 8:45PM EST (link)
    The continued Economic failures have got to be hurting Crist

You’d think so, but no. He’s still got an approval rating around 60%. I’ll say this for him: he’s really weird.

The trouble with Florida is that it’s where Northeastern liberals come to cast their last votes. Even among the R’s, there are a lot of Susan Collins-type R’s.

My bet? Rubio in a squeaker.

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you’re dead.

Drives me crazy

DerKrieger (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 9:38PM EST (link)

“The trouble with Florida is that it’s where Northeastern liberals come to cast their last votes. Even among the R’s, there are a lot of Susan Collins-type R’s.”

They NEVER learn. When Liberals flee their blue states they should either be banned from voting or be required to undergo deprogramming before being allowed to move.

“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison

Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690

The reason is very simple

Aetius728 Friday, July 17th at 10:51PM EST (link)

Most people’s understanding of politics and economics is very limited compared to ours. This is not to insult their intelligence, it is just a fact given the sad state of civic and economic education in our country, and the fact that people have lives and families and other interests and don’t follow politics like we do. Connections just aren’t made. They are not confronted with the argument that the policies they vote for are the cause of problems.

For example, I was debating corporate taxes with my uncle, and I made the point that businesses were fleeing high tax states like California and NY for more friendly states like Texas or even other countries. He had just never thought that businesses might flee high tax environments. And he is an intelligent man. Most people, and many unconsciously, think of the economy as a sort of mechanisticl thing that can be “managed” successfully or unsuccessfully by politicians, not as a decentralized, dynamic thing made up of millions of individuals, each responding to incentives. People are capable of understanding this, when it is explained, they just don’t have the time or the interest to contemplate such things on their own.

And something else that is sad is that no prominent Republican is pointing this out. A little example of the basket case that is California, NY, or NJ during a presidential debate with 50 million people watching would be nice.

Back to the purpose of the thread, I would like to see Sarah Palin endorse and campaign for Rubio. I would want to be a fly on the wall in the NRSC office when they heard about that.

Bullseye Aetius....

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 11:06PM EST (link)

Your comment is spot on, people aren’t stupid, their ignorant because they have been treated like they are stupid. When we stop treating them like their stupid they respond as the intelligent individuals they are.

Oh and Palin endorsing Rubio would be great and to be that fly would be teh awesome.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

And then Greer's head explodes

Robert A. Hahn (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:13PM EST (link)
    I would like to see Sarah Palin endorse and campaign for Rubio

If this does not happen I’m returning my crystal ball for a full refund. It absolutely shows this. I can see the crowds, hear the cheers, watch the money fall into the jar.

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you’re dead.

 
 
 
 
 

Imagine

waltsfour Friday, July 17th at 5:39PM EST (link)

Only imagining how two new senators, Marco Rubio (FL) and Peter Schiff (CT), would help shift the ideological spectrum and debate in the Senate. A valuable conservative senator is not only one who votes well, but is able to shift the ideological spectrum and contribute productively to the debate. Coburn and Demint stand out for their impact in setting the debate. I believe that both Rubio and Schiff would do likewise.

jt

Amen nt

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 7:29PM EST (link)
The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

and Toomey now that would be a Conservative firestorm...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 7:40PM EST (link)

in the Senate for the next 6 yrs from 2010!

That's even better nt

Richard Mullins (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 7:44PM EST (link)

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 

Heh...could you imagine the sqealing and nashing of teeth comming from the NRSC and the RMSP? nt

AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 8:41PM EST (link)
The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 

Wouldn't that jsut send a shiver down the spine of the moderates

Richard Mullins (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 7:44PM EST (link)

It might shake up the party leadership to fly right this time. Senator Cornyn, you forgot that the election against Rick Noriaga is over and now is not the time to get the moderates vote. Stay on our side and things will not go wrong,

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

You'd think so...but don't bet the farm

AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 8:44PM EST (link)

You’d think they’d have been pleased after we crushed the Democrat Machine in 2004 with Conservative issues but the reaction was for the Elites to go on a purge campaign and force McGoo down our throats!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 

Crist needs to embrace what he is...

lthurwitz (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 7:58PM EST (link)

and become a Democrat.

 

Sorry to threadjack but

kyle8 (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 8:40PM EST (link)

it looks like that old fraud Walter Cronkite finally kicked the bucket. Now we will be inundated with nostalgia and laurels of praise for a man who seemed to be so fair.

When in fact he was far from fair, he excluded much from his coverage and colored his other coverage to give a left wing point of view. He played up republican foibles while helping to squelch the various peccadilloes of the Kennedy’s.

America’s most trusted voice, just goes to show how naive we once were.

I won’t miss him.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

walter Conkrite, may God have MERCY on his soul-nt

DONTREADONME (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 8:45PM EST (link)

Why? nt

mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:10AM EST (link)

do you really want to know?

DONTREADONME (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:14AM EST (link)

what I think of Walter Conkrite?

I know the name but I never saw him on the news nt

mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:16AM EST (link)

I never saw on the news either

Richard Mullins (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:22AM EST (link)

but that was because he left the CBS evening news before I turned 4 years old.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 
 

Sure go ahead

Richard Mullins (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:18AM EST (link)

He was a smooth talker and major lib. I sure I could go on you could tell me what I’ve heard on TV(I’m talking KHOU here and not the national news).

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

Richard, Walter Cronkite was the 1st liberal tv newsman to bend...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:37AM EST (link)

the news to advance an agenda, he didn’t like the Vietnam War and he tailored his news to end it. He would consistantly tell America about the “bad” Republican’s while never spilling the beans on the thiefdom of the Democrats. He along with 2 other stations that were FCC sanctioned decided what America “needed” to know and what they didn’t.

To this day I cannot tell you how wonderful it was for a Rush Limbaugh to break out for Conservatives and then FOX news to come along. FOX gives the impression of being RIGHT but that is because the other stations are so left. It was truly a great day in America when Conservative’s finally had a voice and CBS, NBC, ABC could no longer ignore stories.

I think you only need look at a site like NewsBusters to see the way those stations still HIDE the news on Democrats hell they rarely put a D after the name of the criminals in that party but always put the R after a Republican now imagine that going on but there is no Limbaugh, FOX, Newsbusters and Drudge etc. imagine how people viewed the Republican Party prior to aforementioned people and sites. The Republican Party is still fighting the racist label that people like Walter in support of the D’s help to formulate.

It has been a long struggle to change the thinking of American’s about the Republican party due to the damage in the 70′s, 80s and early 90′s by “newsmen” like Walter but the tide is turning and we have a voice now and I believe it will only take another generation to end the lies that they all created but it has been a struggle.

My birthday happens to fall on the same day the liberal 1st favorite Cable news outlet started

Richard Mullins (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 1:16AM EST (link)

I’m talking about CNN,that started on my 3rd birthday(June 1,1980).

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter

Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 
 
 

No.

mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:23AM EST (link)

Wait a week. There will probably be a diary up to comment on him. Right now, too close to his death, too much “mandatory” adulation. Kinda like there will be when the peanut farmer dies.

OK..

DONTREADONME (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:29AM EST (link)

I will be respectful I guess, then again I did not have much admiration for Edward R Murrow either well at least for his later work.

For my mandatory adulation, america grieves today for someone who was good at reading news from a piece of paper or making it up as he went along. God rest his soul?

Whoops I guess I am threadjacking, Sorry Erick. Very interesting that Rubio won that straw poll quite telling for crist.

 

the proper response when "peanut farmer" dies

David Hinz (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:34PM EST (link)

will be total and absolute SILENCE!

Ignominy is what he deserves…..

as for Walter Cronkite, I will not speak ill of him — he was a professional journalist — who did not wear his politics on his sleeve.

I hope that's irony

Neil Stevens (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:35PM EST (link)

His traitorous broadcasting of lies during the Vietnam war should not be remembered fondly.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

Agreed on Vietnam, but I would say that the fact that it stands out so much

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 1:23PM EST (link)

is that his overt episodes of such partisanship on the air are so rare an that even there he probably was relying on others in the military and that surely he was not one that wanted his Dem Party President to lose a war. maybe?

The real bias lies in what stories CBS chose to cover and how.

And the whole era is quite an anomaly given the limited TV broadcast technology that allowed liberals to have a monopoly and be so revered that they could play objective while shaping the news to fit liberals’ agenda.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

says the guy who was not alive

David Hinz (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:23PM EST (link)

to ever hear Walter Cronkite broadcast live.

We had two choices when I was a kid, Uncle Walter or Chet and David.

When President Kennedy was assassinated his calm and reassuring voice helped the country endure the pain.

When our astronauts landed on the moon, it seemed like he broadcast for 24 hours straight as we waited to hear if the landing was successful.

And if his reporting on the Vietnam War was clouded by an anti-war sentiment, we didn’t know it at the time. He was the best we had — there was no Rush Limbaugh — no Drudge Report — no Redstate — and so we believed him.

He was the most honest broadcaster of his time — and a helluva lot better than any MSM broadcaster of the last two decades.

And it is ironic that he was forced off the air, in what today would clearly be an Age Discrimination Case, by the worst scumbag [can I say scumbag on RS?] Dan Rather — only to live to see Rather forced off the air for his own sins.

Most honest of his time

Neil Stevens (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:24PM EST (link)

That may be true, but I’m not sure it’s a high bar to leap.

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“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

 

That Makes It Worse

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:34PM EST (link)

He had a captive audience and his bias was subtle. Subtle bias is far worse that overt bias. How many people for how long thought they were getting “hard news”? Just terrible. What this here, conservative blogs and alternative meida, is all about is trying to undo forty years of media bias.

yes, technology driven limited choices and fascination with TV led to a dangerous era

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:36PM EST (link)

of news that was quite different from our history of partisan competition in newspapers. Yes, the apparent objectivity was more dangerous.

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“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

and no doubt we will hear people waxing nostalgic

kyle8 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:47PM EST (link)

about that dangerous era in the next few days.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 
 

He turned me against the Viet Nam war

TNJim (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:48PM EST (link)

and it’s only been recently that I began to see just how he, and Chet and David to some extent, took the anti-war movement at the time and sought to justify it. I began to learn the truth about Viet Nam about 15 years or so ago and wondered how LBJ, and Nixon later, could turn their backs on it, and our servicemen and expecially the South Vietnamese. then I heard about LBJ saying that if he’s lost Cronkite, he’s lost America.

Activism: What to do after the TEA party rally. Unified Patriots

We Won 'Tet'

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:53PM EST (link)

I wasn’t alive, but from what I’ve studied, it was conclusive that our guys won the Tet Offensive. The North had high hopes and we broke them.

It was not until the American Press lost its nerve and Cronkite gave his post Tet editorial did the VC realize that the propaganda worked and that the American people were losing their stomach for that war.

There are few instances of such betrayal by the American Press thanTet.

Raw Footage of Cronkite: Borderline Traitorous

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:01PM EST (link)

I know that’s harsh. But forty years of unadulterated media bias has left me bitter. I challenge anyone to study the Tet Offensive and comare to this. This is all America had at that time. This is how they based their opinions on Nam. Liberals cloaked in objective journalism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdOb_183d1o

I just wonder if at the time Walter knew he was lying - I very much doubt it, but

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:34PM EST (link)

am persuadable with facts.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

doesn't really matter if he did or not

kyle8 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:38PM EST (link)

He was one of those who lectured other journalists about the importance of being aloof and unbiased. When he failed to take his own advice he caused enormous damage.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 

He Was The Journalist; That Was His Jobs

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:45PM EST (link)

Report facts or say nothing. If you editorialize, base it on facts.

But a passionate plea that the enemy will match our resolve regardless of what we do, was not based on facts, so he was either lying, a willing dupe or a stupid winbag.

If he relied upon military experts who told him we lost, then he did his job

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:55PM EST (link)

and is in no way near as culpable as someone that went in with an agenda and simply found who would say what he wanted said.

I have seen no evidence that he went over there with an agenda. Wouldn’t be shocked if he did.

But there is an obvious difference between

1-an agenda that seeks to lie and does so

and

2-an open mind that relies upon experts that turn out to have been wrong

and/or

3-an open mind that is negligent and sloppy

so far Walter looks like #2

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Who Sold Out The Troops?

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:07PM EST (link)

What miltiary expert is going to report a victory as a defeat. That’s a farther leap than thinking Cronkite was biased.

What experts told him that if we brought 300,000 thousand more troops, the Vietcong would match with 300,000 troops.

Do you hold the same standard for Rather, Brokaw, Couric, Jennings.

The rolling of the eyes and the sighs every time Cronkite mentioned Nixon. His temperment. He favoring of stories. He was a liberal hack.

I’m not sure why any supposed conservative wants to side with the liberal Cronkite over the troop who fought and died at Tet.

His editorial says it all. It was opinion. He called the war lost. Johnson didnt say the experts say the war is lost, Johnson said Cronkite said the war is lost so I’ve lost the people.

the Vietcong could not match those numbers

David Hinz (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:12PM EST (link)

but we already had seen China send a million man army into Korea when it looked like we might win that conflict — it was reasonable to believe that they would do the same in Vietnam.

He was wrong. A lot of people were wrong.

And please don’t elevate this by throwing around “supposed conservative” as though you are more pure than anyone else.

You Want To Defend This Man,

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:15PM EST (link)

Be My Guest

http://www.mrc.org/Profiles/cronkite/welcome.asp

Just dont complain about media bias

Cronkite's Greatest Hits

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:23PM EST (link)

“Shout truths of liberalism”

“Dukaksis would have won if he was more liberal”

“Carter wast the smartest president”

“Ken Starr more divisive than Vietnam”

“welfare refrom ridiculous”

“Karl Rove set up Bin Laden”

Yeah, this is a guy worth defending

 

###

David Hinz (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:26PM EST (link)

Cronkite Defends Liberal Media Bias

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:32PM EST (link)

News People “Should Be Liberal” – Walter Cronkite

“I believe that most of us reporters are liberal, but not because we consciously have chosen that particular color in the political spectrum. More likely it is because most of us served our journalistic apprenticeships as reporters covering the seamier side of our cities – the crimes, the tenement fires, the homeless and the hungry, the underclothed and undereducated.
“We reached our intellectual adulthood with daily close-ups of the inequality in a nation that was founded on the commitment to equality for all. So we are inclined to side with the powerless rather than the powerful. If that is what makes us liberals, so be it, just as long as in reporting the news we adhere to the first ideals of good journalism – that news reports must be fair, accurate and unbiased.”

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2003/cyb20030819.asp#4

But trust him on Tet. Or is th applicable response ###

I dont let biased liberal journalists off the hook. Sorry if that offends you.

 
 
 
 

I just don't know what Walter based his report on and am seeking some data to back up the charge that he INTENTIONALLY AND KNOWINGLY LIED

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:39PM EST (link)

Clearly, in hind sight, TET was a victory.

Clearly, CBS and NBC and ABC were biased liberal networks pretending to be objective from at least the mid to late 50s thru yesterday.

Some military people at the time thought of TET as a loss too, and some still do based on the casualties. They were clearly wrong.

But if Walter relied upon those that did think so, then he is exonerated from the charge of treason!

Swamp, you are conversing here with a man that has written several major pieces in the drive by dead tree msm accusing the msm of betraying me and America with their bias for 5 decades. I hate the networks.

My specific and narrow question here is that I think before we accuse Cronkite of treason for his post TET reporting, that we have proof of intent and substance.

I already agree that he was wrong.

I am quite familiar with all the facts about Johnson. He sucked too.

Nixon actually went on the win the war with his vietnaminizaion and the dems intentionally turned it into a defeat after 1974.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

GC is not "siding with" Cronkite Swamp. I have been very specific in my comments, questions and insistant upon proof of treason - go back and re-read with care

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:42PM EST (link)

I am quite precise in my use of the English language.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

I Did

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 5:09PM EST (link)

You said you beleived “he was an open mind who relied on experts who were wrong”. Those are your words.

Bias is not the same as lying. That was your dinstinction. Cronkite is as liberal as they get and he brags about it. He is as biased. That’sa liberal argument, when a conservative asserts bias – “show me when he lied”. Why protect the godfather of biased liberal journalists.

Cronkite sold out the troops on Tet. What was a courageous military victory for our boys was stolen by liberals like Cronkite.

If you apply the standard you applied; irrefutable proof of lying; to asseert a claim of bias, you will rarely be able to ever claim liberal media bias.

Why cripple conservatives who assert media bias. Its in the way they “color” the news.

You infer what I didn't imply - but we certainly agree that CBS and Cronkite

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 5:20PM EST (link)

were biased then and that all the Drive-bys are now.

My only distinction is to combat the harsh treason accusation-like rhetoric and the rhetoric that questioned my conservatism due to my moral culpability distinctions about the possible scenarios that led to Cronkite;s post TET reports.

The proof I am demanding is for the accusation of treason.

Swamp, you really need to actually read what I say and not infer anything. I state my positions quite precisely and clearly and the PROOF was on the issue of treason. Got any?

smile
didn’t think so

Wouldn’t you also agree that given LBJ’s determination not to win in Vietnam that after so many casualties, it was not an extreme position to oppose the war in Vietnam by 1968? That LBJ was forcing the military to fight with one had tied behind its back was some justification for Cronkite et al’s position incl RFK?

just saying…

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Why Insist On Lying?

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 6:20PM EST (link)

It was Cronkite reporting that led him to believe that he lost the people.

And you keep insisting on “lying”. You don’t need to lie to betray your country.

Of all the hot talk around during Iraq, did people demand proof of “lying” to detemine the media was complicit with the liberal agenda.

It starts with world view. That’s not a lie. To a iberal at reporter the time America was imperialistic. The VC were just poor farmers fighting for there home.
It continues with assumptions. It continues with a willingness to believe facts they want to believe and to deny inconvenient truths. It manifests itself in the language they use, how they color the news, their baody language.

I dont need to prove lies to know that the liberal meida bias at the time stole a hard fought victory from our troops. To know, they encouraged the counter-culture. To know, that they demoralized American troops and inspired the VC. To know, blood is on their hands and they are resonsible for the loss of American prestige.

Maybe because it was so long ago, people are willing to excuse their behavior, but what they did was just as bad if not worse than what the mainstream press did during Iraq.

I hope thirty years from now, conservatives dont just go “Rather was an honest reporter, he just go bad facts” or “Couric was wrong, buta lot of people were wrong”

I wont go there.

we agree mostly then because I have written many times that

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 6:35PM EST (link)

I do feel betrayed and feel that my country has been betrayed by the drive by media from my birth thru today. You are mainly speaking to the choir on that.

I’m glad you aren’t endorsing the treason allegation as that would require venal intent and/or lying.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Another Time; I'm Drinking Now

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 9:51PM EST (link)

I drinking now.

But. If it was Iraq and the troops won a major battle and secured an oil field, yet the the press led with the story of how children in Iraq were being killed. The successes of our troops were put on the backpage.

Say that went on for years. Every piece of bad news was highlighted. Every piece of good news was suppressed.

Say that led to retreat, humiliation sacrificed blood for nothing, dishonor, weakneded American prestige….

…which would have occurred if the POTUS election was 2006 instead of 2008.

And a man who claims such fidelity to words should know that I said “borderline” trreason.

YES THAT IS BORDERLINE TREASON. A press working against its own country. And Conkrite was the American Godfather.

Can't argue with that brother - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, July 19th at 7:33AM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 

The media of today

Justin_Case (Diary) Sunday, July 19th at 12:23PM EST (link)

is no different than that of the Vietnam Era. Actually it is probably worse today.

However, there was a distinct difference in leadership in those two eras.

Without a doubt, Bush received as much if not more criticism from the Left – not only by a complicit media, but by treacherous Democrat politicians.

If you go back to the early years of Vietnam, during the Kennedy Administration, the American people were led to believe that the Viet Cong would be defeated in a matter of months.

In that context, while Tet 1968 was an enormous defeat militarily for the VC, it was a moral victory in the sense that it demonstrated that the Communists could overrun and hold major South Vietnamese cities for long periods of time. This is what the American public then realized: that the war was going to be long and drawn out and not the quick victory predicted in the early years. What Americans were led to believe in 1962 was not even close to reality six years later.

I would highly recommend Neil Sheehan’s A Bright, Shining Lie. He was reporting from the ground during the Kennedy years and had as his cohorts, people such as David Halberstam and Daniel Ellsberg, years before they became household names.

American leadership during Vietnam demonstrated an abject failure to understand just who we were up against.

 
 
 

The greater issue was Lyndon Johnson,

Justin_Case (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 6:17PM EST (link)

not long after Tet, stating he would not seek re-election, that he would suspend bombing of the North, and hold peace talks with the Communists in Paris.

Robert MacNamara’s book, In Retrospect stated that the Johnson Administration saw the war in Vietnam as not winnable at least a year earlier than Tet 1968.

I doubt very much that Johnson fell victim to anything Cronkite said.

The decision to negotiate with an enemy in the absence of an unconditional surrender is what led to the undoing of the war.

Nothing Cronkite said can even approach the actions of LBJ.

amen, and don't you think it would have been justified at the time

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 6:36PM EST (link)

to oppose the Vietnam war based on LBJ’s refusal to win it, even if one was a conservative hawk with a proper world view?

I do

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

I really believe that LBJ's actions

Justin_Case (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 11:22PM EST (link)

were more reassuring to the Communists than anything the Left or the news media did in this country.

Compare him with G.W. Bush – who probably had even more resistance against the Iraq War from elected officials on the Left. Yet he never wavered. I hold fast to my belief that Bush’s likeness will someday grace Iraqi postage stamps.

As for conservative opposition during Vietnam: at that time it was becoming harder and harder to be in favor of the war, specifically because of the way it was being conducted.

ditto - no surge could have worked had we not first stayed the course

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, July 19th at 7:35AM EST (link)

for some time to win back the trust of a people we had twice betrayed.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

jobs [sic] ? - nt smile - elevate your conversation brother - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:42PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

spelling is the hobgoblin of little minds n/t

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 5:11PM EST (link)

touche'!!!!! (but its "puny minds" not little!) - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 5:21PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 
 
 

that is an excellent video

David Hinz (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:07PM EST (link)

and actually, if you listen to what he was saying, in light of 1968 it makes perfect sense.

In the 1950′s we fought the Communist Chinese to a “stalemate” in Korea, at the loss of 37,000 American lives. We fought North Korea with one hand tied behind our backs, Communist China backed the NoKo’s with an army of 1 million men.

Because the USSR backed China, we faced the possibility of an escalation into nuclear war with the USSR — and so we fought to tie.

In Vietnam we faced the same prospect — if we began to advance into North Vietnam, the Chinese Army would, no doubt, have poured into Vietnam to support their ally.

It was not until years later that we would learn that the North Vietnamese were on the brink of surrender — had it not been for the efforts of Hanoi Jane and Walter Cronkite.

I do not mean to defend Walter Cronkite or the anti-war movement. I was unique for my age, in that even at that time I supported our troops, and hated Jane Fonda with a passion.

 
 

I was a young skull full of mush then

TNJim (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:02PM EST (link)

so it was years later I began to find out Tet actually was a victory in the very sense you stated. Also, that incidents like My Lai did NOT happen everyday. But Tet was portrayed as a huge defeat because of the lives lost. I didn’t learn about the setback we gave the NVA til years later.

Activism: What to do after the TEA party rally. Unified Patriots

Check Cornkite's Post Tet Editorial Now

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:04PM EST (link)

Its all that more appaling in hindsight.

 

In this regard, Cronkite provided a valuable service to us:

janis (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:07PM EST (link)

Knowing what he did during Vietnam and knowing the results, both for the Vietnamese people and for our soldiers returning home, we made sure that it didn’t happen again during the Iraq War. Fool us once, shame on you, but you didn’t get to fool us twice, isn’t that nice?

 

The North Vietnamese General in charge

kyle8 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:40PM EST (link)

at that time has written a book explaining how the NV government was nearly ready to capitulate and that the American Media and anti war movement gave them the encouragement to continue.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 
 

Not only was I alive, but I was 18 and facing a 1-A draft status

Achance (Diary) Sunday, July 19th at 12:49PM EST (link)

winter quarter of 1968 because I was on academic probation and facing flunking out of school. That crystalized your perceptions in those days and I backed off the partying and dope smoking and got my grades back up and kept my 2-S.

I was far from a news junkie in those days but I kept up with things and the channel we got best, no cable in those days, was the CBS station in Savannah, so we got Cronkite’s version of the news. I don’t know what he meant to convey or why but I assure you that what he did convey was that US troops had been embarrassed and defeated by the Viet Cong in the Tet Offensive. Looking back, virtually ALL of the reporting from Vietnam was desceptive or uninformed, I believe desceptive. First, the military was less than truthful always trying to bolster its own reputation and second, since the military wasn’t always truthful, the press treated them like they were always lying. I don’t thing many Americans had any idea that especially after Tet we were facing front line North Vietnamese infantry and armor using up to date Soviet and Chinese equipment and often with Soviet “advisors.” The US media kept up the story that the enemy was a pajama-clad peasant with an old WWII rifle. They kept that up until the pictures of the tanks crashing through the gates in Saigon couldn’t be suppressed, but by then nobody cared because the US war and the draft were over.

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 
 

David, the fact probably is that

Flagstaff (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:48PM EST (link)

he believed he was reporting the truth (in the hard news, he probably was), and he believed that his opinion was valid when he expressed it. Problem was that in those days the viewer didn’t usually make a distinction between hard news and opinion. And he may not have made it clear, either.

“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964

good point 'staff - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 6:37PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

Like they do now??? nt

mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 9:19PM EST (link)

Not required now.

Flagstaff (Diary) Sunday, July 19th at 2:55PM EST (link)

It’s all opinion, all the time.

“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964

 
 
 

Where have you put David Hinz?

AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 8:54PM EST (link)

and who’s the imposter behind the keyboard….

Are you serious Dave?

I was alive though in grade school at the time. I agree in the part where a lot of history and fond moments of achievement were shared with Uncle Joe…er..Walter…but his contempt for Republicans and his antipathy if not out right hostility for the war and those who fought it were palpable.

It’s true that he was the best wee had…but that’s hardly an endorsement or anything to hang your hat on considering the competition but I can still remember the love fest for Chairman Mao on CBS news and the pro Ho Chi Min orgies. I was a born again liberal till I was in my late twenties because of him and the way he and CBS news glorified the hippie movement!

Uncle Joe…er…Walter was red to his core and his love affair with Slick Willy after he finally stepped down was the nail in his coffin as far as any respect I had left for him!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 
 
 
 

8 million, at least

Robert A. Hahn (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:26PM EST (link)

That’s the number of deaths I lay at the feet of Walter Cronkite.

You probably never heard of the Great Tet Victory, in which we decimated the North Vietnamese Army and won the Vietnam War. That’s because Walter Cronkite told everybody we lost. To hear CBS News tell it, the North’s “Tet Offensive” was a big success, we were hosed, and we couldn’t pull out of Vietnam fast enough. So sayeth The Cronk.

The subsequent Communist victories in Southeast Asia resulted in at least 8 million murdered after the war ended. Cronkite was a Communist and a liar. May The Lord see fit to let him rot in Hell.

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you’re dead.

 
 
 

Thank goodness for small favors nt

Richard Mullins (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 8:48PM EST (link)

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 

And that's the way it is...

lthurwitz (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 9:20PM EST (link)

Remember the days of 4 channels and the little box that clicked to turn the antenna. RIP Walter Cronkite.

 

Walter Cronkite died....Well...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:14AM EST (link)

Seriously though….RIP and condolences to his family.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Cronkite

Pomme (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:44AM EST (link)

Even in death does the man know how to bury a story before a weekend.

R.I.P.

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views” William F Buckley Jr.

 

That white wicker chairback

Flagstaff (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 4:52PM EST (link)

makes it look like he’s wearing a softball jersey.

“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964

 
 

Icon of liberal media is dead

Freedoms Truth (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 5:45PM EST (link)

So the ICON of the liberal lamestream media, Walter Cronkite, is dead. Cronkite was an exemplar of liberal media bias, who later went on to lend his name to liberal causes.
We need a separate thread on this.
Cronkite was an important media figure, the template of liberal bias masked as objectivity that became the modus operandi for the liberal ABCBSNBC TV media since. It’s only been the opening up of the internet that media bias was even ACKNOWLEDGED. But it was there the whole time, in Vietnam, Watergate, Reagan era, etc.

“America’s most trusted voice” – nice marketing, but then again tailfins on cadillacs were only considered the cats pajamas.

You Are Correct n/t

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 6:05PM EST (link)

wnd article on Cronkite

muffin Sunday, July 19th at 8:54AM EST (link)

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104399

Fortitudine vincimus – By endurance we conquer

 
 
 

I'll be a Rubio voter next year

Darin_H (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 8:45PM EST (link)

We’re moving to the Jacksonville area in 15 days. If it’s an open primary, it’ll probably be 2 votes for Rubio.

A visionary coward says that anger can be power, as long as there’s a victim on TV – Flat Top, Goo Goo Dolls

 

"Crushed"...I like that word.

harlan Saturday, July 18th at 11:40AM EST (link)

It’s about damn time the old farts in Florida get a clue.

And I’m hoping that there’s a sizable number of Jewish voters in that number as well who are finally waking up.