The 2nd Debate Open Thread


It’s a townhall forum tonight in Nashville. Will we get some hippy freaks who want the candidates to play daddy? Will McCain punch Obama? Will Obama soil his panties?


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Erick...

Aaron Weatherford (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 6:38PM EST (link)

Look forward to seeing you in DC this weekend. Just out of curiosity what will you be speaking on?

Thanks,

“My friends, it is coming to my attention that a great number of you are fearful of an Obama win. I must stress that you have nothing to fear from Obama winning the election as I have the greatest confidence he would be a most benevolent dictator.” – Hopefully John McCain

 

Mitt On Lou

wiseprince (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 6:41PM EST (link)

Mitt Romney just tore things up on the Lou Dobbs show! To bad he is bad for the base but he should be named as a Economic adviser

[Subscribe Now](http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/voicesinthewilderness/UQcm/~6/1)![Voices in the Wilderness](http://feeds.feedburner.com/voicesinthewilderness/UQcm.1.gif)

 

McCain and the question of gloves tonight

Matthew Morris (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 7:26PM EST (link)

I am sick of the media trying to tell us all that “Americans will react negatively to negativity.”

This is not a typical election. We have a problem here, MEDIA, in that YOU have failed to vet YOUR candidate. And it just so happens that YOUR candidate this year is a radical leftist, with radical connections, associations, collaborations, and shared agendas. What is a McCain to do???

I’ll tell you what a McCain is to do.

1) Have a plan for the economy, lay it out, look ahead.

2) Take advantages of moderator and questioner presented opportunities to talk about Fan, Fred, Democrats, Republicans, and McCain over the past 10 years.

3) Similarly, take careful advantages of questions and opportunities about the question of Obama’s character, which is finally emerging as a hot topic.

4) McCain’s defense of having to go “negative”, which he should use, is that it is not really negative, it is essential truth telling because:

  • The media has not done it. They have failed.
  • The questions are so freaking huge about Obama that someone has to do it, and if it is left to McCain, he must do it.
  • Because his overrarching duty that reaches beyond running a friendly campaign is to make sure that Americans know about something THAT big.
  • And remind Americans that the questions are so big that they will have a hard time believing them because they will wonder why the heck they have not heard of Bill Ayers by now.
  • Conveniently point back to the first bullet: The Media

5) And lastly, let happy, joyful optimism and the disposition of a leader with a servant’s heart color and frame every exchange. (H/T Gov. Palin)


“I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Ipsum esse subsistens

Point #4 is

Flagstaff (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 7:44PM EST (link)

exactly right.

Tell the truth, even if it seems “negative” to the press. To the public, it will be seen as the truth, or at least worth investigating.

“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964

 
 

No need to wait for polls after debate tonight

neum432 (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 7:45PM EST (link)

We already know that msdnc, cnn have declared Obama the winner of this debate. It would not suprise me if they already conducted their poll of independants BEFORE the debate. I would guess Obama wins the debate according to msdnc 61% to 29% over McCain, lol!!!

“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson

 

I just threw up.

Jay_Cee Tuesday, October 7th at 8:21PM EST (link)

Did McCain just say that he wanted to refinance everyone’s mortgage at the current market value? ie, an unbelievably huge principal write-down at tax-payer expense? I don’t even know where to begin (or who to vote for anymore…). Sigh.

 

Held back a bit

Whitehorse (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 8:23PM EST (link)

Not bad hitting on Fannie & Freddie, though I wish he would’ve mentioned that it was not a problem of not enough regulation, but regulation of the wrong things & not regulating the corruption.

 

John McCain needs to point out that the opposite of deregulation is red tape (n/t)

Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 8:28PM EST (link)

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

 

Taxes

Whitehorse (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 8:34PM EST (link)

Need to hit this one.

Is it me or does McCain seem a bit lethargic? I’m listening, not watching.

 

Line Item Veto

cocacola05721 Tuesday, October 7th at 8:35PM EST (link)

I just want to make sure I heard Obama right. He said he wants to take out of bills the pork barrel spending? If so, Doesn’t he know its all or none vote? Shouldn’t he know that line item vetoing is illegal on the federal level.

 

First

corwithiowa Tuesday, October 7th at 8:38PM EST (link)

why is McCain having to answeer most of the questions first!

 

This is getting real scary!

Achance (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 8:41PM EST (link)

McCain is NOT covering himself in glory tonight.

In Vino Veritas

 

Well, McCain is losing it tonight...

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 8:46PM EST (link)

He was given many chances by Obama, but he is just too engrossed in the Congress (gotta love those guys – buddy system at its best… heh) to understand why the American people are angry. He does just NOT get it and won’t before the election!

So goes the election…damn!

Oh well, Sarah Palin will pick up the leftovers in 2012…

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

 

I WANT SARAH!!! NOW!!!!

ListKeeper Tuesday, October 7th at 8:49PM EST (link)

Healthcare

Whitehorse (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 8:50PM EST (link)

McCain seems to have awakened!

Your are right there...

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 8:53PM EST (link)

It way past time for someone honest and not involved in political “carp” (as Sarah would say)… Just when can we get rid of these so-called idiotic politicians – you know, the ones that keep dragging us down to their level…?

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

 
 

Healthecare: Another right from Obama

ListKeeper Tuesday, October 7th at 8:54PM EST (link)

I don’t see it in my copy of the constitution.

Oh Please... Healthcare is a solcialist issue

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 8:54PM EST (link)

if you listen to either of the candidates. Neither can even imagine a fix for the current system… Get a grip!

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

Good answer from McCain

Whitehorse (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 8:55PM EST (link)

Responsibility, not a right.

 
 
 

Obama ignoring the rules, again

ListKeeper Tuesday, October 7th at 8:55PM EST (link)

Obama looked sour...

ListKeeper Tuesday, October 7th at 8:57PM EST (link)

when McCain asked if anyone heard the size of that fine.

 

Obama thinks the war on terror...

ListKeeper Tuesday, October 7th at 8:59PM EST (link)

is a war with a country (i.e., Afganistan). I hope McCain slams him by saying the war is against terrorist, where ever they may be.

 

Saving the men and women of Iraq...

ListKeeper Tuesday, October 7th at 9:03PM EST (link)

from Sadam’s murderers must not be as valuable as the live in Darfur.

 

I'd love to see this .....

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:09PM EST (link)

Senator McCain brings up Ayers, et al.

Senator Obama gets all indignant.

Brokaw sits there stunned, trying to stop it.

Senator McCain walks close to Senator Obama and asks “the question”, something like “Why on earth would you knowingly befriend these anti-American people, stay with them through the years and involve them in your life . . . Is it that you agree with them?”

Seantor Obama says something under his breath, that only Senator McCain and later on good audio enhancement will reveal.

Senator McCain then opens up with both barrels on what being a true American means and (using his opponent’s full name), saying that Barack Hussein Obama is morally unfit to be the leader of a pack of hot dog buns, let alone the free world.

Senator Obama then gets up and punches Senator McCain.

October Surprise !

 

Obama's confusin' me ....

Lwyrett (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:09PM EST (link)

Hey, under Mr. O’s criteria, wasn’t genocide enough of a reason to go into Iraq? :/

~ ^-^ ~

 

Won't telegraph punches?

ListKeeper Tuesday, October 7th at 9:12PM EST (link)

Like turning the page on the economy?

 

McCain Was Horrible!

bert2008 Tuesday, October 7th at 9:14PM EST (link)

He was completely overpowered by The One! What a horrible performance. I am totally depressed.

No

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 9:15PM EST (link)

“War is against terrorist, where ever they may be.”

I’m probably mistaken, but I thought terrorism was a tactic – a concept. Another tactic might be the use of snipers(sniping).

Would it make sense to pursue a war on sniping, for instance?

Tactics can’t be eliminated because they aren’t tangigle – they are concepts.

No, you attack organizations that either are countries or exist within countries or are in some way supported by other nations.

For instance, Pakistan harbors terrorists. Osama has been kicking back in Pakistan for years.

Perhaps we should attack an organization with it’s base of power in Pakistan – which is a country.

Of course, you can continue to play with the lives our men and women in the armed forcs sending them to eliminate a vague concept instead of a country.

How’s that been working out?

 
 

Isn't Obama's beloved world community (NATO)...

ListKeeper Tuesday, October 7th at 9:15PM EST (link)

in charge in Afghanistan?

Debate's not over yet

Whitehorse (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:17PM EST (link)

I don’t see McCain as being overpowered in any way. He started slowly, but has done a good job so far.

Little early to be calling a loss…

I was surprised too

chefspike2007 Tuesday, October 7th at 9:19PM EST (link)

I couldn’t believe McCain threw out that gem. Being upside down on a house doesn’t stop you from paying your mortgage. If you got too aggressive on your “income”, got a rate that reset to a much higher rate, those are things that cause you to be unable to pay the mortgage. Just because you have no equity anymore doesn’t mean you can’t pay your bills. I bought a little vacation house 3 years ago, at the peak. It’s under-water. I don’t expect the government to bail me out. I can’t even guess how much that would cost our future generations.

 
 
 

I think Bert2008 might be a troll/moby

AKowaleski (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:19PM EST (link)

He registered just 11 minutes ago.

 

Sorry to say that McCains performances tonight

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 9:19PM EST (link)

just has not done it (baring a miracle – lost big time!). He has lost! Geez, sorry to be so pessimistic, but, facts are not always welcomed… Maybe Palin will recover enough to run in 2012…

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

Good Catch

sconklin (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:20PM EST (link)

My exact same thought when Barry said that

Sorry to say that you are right...

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 9:23PM EST (link)

Sounded like a protective Senator (old folk) of the good ole boy network…oh well…

I can only hope that the Marxist regime that we are forced to endure is brief (for my son)!

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

 
 
 

Obama was handed a gift from McCain

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 9:25PM EST (link)

Obama: “Senator McCain is right, I don’t understand, I don’t understand why we invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. And we are still there ignoring the real problems elsewhere and spending money we don’t have.”

McCain set this one up for him…

You can disagree with viewpoint, but it will resonate with the independents.

McCain owes foreign policy, he should have known better than to set Obama up for a memorable sound byte.

 

Where the heckers is ALL the money going to come from?

Lwyrett (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:29PM EST (link)

How does Mr. O plan to pay for everything? His proposed “government investments?” His proposed rebuilding of countries?

Is his pal, Franklin Raines, gonna help? Maybe hit up George Soros for a loan?

~ ^-^ ~

 

Palin 2012

bert2008 Tuesday, October 7th at 9:29PM EST (link)

This is going to be like Jimmy Carter is 1976. He was the worst President in the last century and due to that, brought us Ronald Reagan. President Obama will be the worst ever and will hopefully bring us a conservative live Sarah in 2012. If we can over come all of the negatives his administration will create.

 

Why All Downers?

dld1717 (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:31PM EST (link)

You guys are being way too tough. There is no way in this format could McCain go totally negative on Obama with innocent looking voters right in front of him

McCain won the debate.

 

Strong finish

Steven Willis (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:31PM EST (link)

I liked how McCain ended. Perhaps not enough, but still good.

Palin/Jindel 2012

“Let it be said, I fought the good fight, I finished the race, I kept the faith.”
Paul, Second Timothy 4:7, The New Covenant.

Steve Willis
Professor of Law
University of Florida College of Law

 

McCain had better have a plan

hunter (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:34PM EST (link)

He needed to draw Obama’s blood big time, and he didn’t.
WHY??????

hunter

 

I'm thinking McCain won

JakePrime (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:34PM EST (link)

But not by enough. I don’t know what else he’ll be able to throw out there in the next debate that he didn’t already.

Reality check

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 9:36PM EST (link)

That’s a very pessimistic view…

Regardless of who wins the election, we have to live with it for at least four years.

Maybe it’s time to get behind whome ver YOUR country chooses to lead and represent even if it wasn’t who you personally voted for.

It’s called “turning the other cheek” and I believe folks from both sides of the political aisle could do a much better job of it.

The alternative is another 4-8 years of divisiveness.

Get behind your president – OUR president – for at least the next 3 years. When the next election rolls around, pick your sides again.

Well, you are an optomist!

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 9:37PM EST (link)

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

He had to speak honestly and he did NOT!

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 9:40PM EST (link)

He had ample opportunity to tell it like it is and he failed! Talk about the bailout, Acorn, Obama’s associates, etc… He failed miserably!

He had a chance to divert the electorate and he failed!

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

 
 
 
 

McCain Loses Because He Needs The Third Debate and ...

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:40PM EST (link)

.. right now My Name Is Earl is going to get higher rating than hat third debate.

That's the ticket !

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:43PM EST (link)

Governor Jindal is amazing. He can make me want to move to Louisiana.

Cheers from South Flori-duh.

Believe me, we know!!

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 9:43PM EST (link)

Get behind Obama, surely you jest! I would rather let another radical 60′s asshole out of jail!

You will long live to regret your decision to elect this radical as president. Me, I will just hunker down and hide for the next 4 years…and hope.

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

Assuming We Can

bert2008 Tuesday, October 7th at 9:44PM EST (link)

I have a tough time getting behind such a phony empty suit. This guy is a complete fraud. He is also a Robin Hood socialist. Taxing the ecomomy is the worst thing that can be done at this time. Hurting the production class to benefit the non-product is a formula for disaster!

I couldn't believe McCain didn't jump on this

bk (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:44PM EST (link)

Obama said we never should have invaded Iraq, but that we should invade many parts of Africa and I guess the Balkans were okay too.

Didn’t Saddam practice cleansing, use chemical weapons, on his own people, have rapte and torture rooms, etc.? Under the Obama Doctrine shouldn’t we have invaded Iraq for humanitarian reasons?

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

csstudent Tuesday, October 7th at 9:48PM EST (link)

I felt my dinner rising in my throat too when I heard McCain suggest buying the mortgages and writing down principal. Is it too late to drop McCain and nominate a true conservative republican?

I’ve argued many times that house prices simply have to fall. Incomes did not keep pace with the rising house prices. I honestly don’t care how much equity you have in a house – the principal balance and some basic mathematics determine the payment. Until incomes come up or house prices fall, the math doesn’t change.

Put either on top

JoeG Tuesday, October 7th at 9:55PM EST (link)

Palin-Jindal or Jindal-Palin!

ditto!

bk (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:56PM EST (link)

same for McCain buying up everyone's mortgages

bk (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 9:59PM EST (link)

Can car loans, student loans, credit card loans, etc. be far behind?

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

The number one issue is character

David123 (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:04PM EST (link)

It is the number one issue for our country and it is the issue McCain most clearly leads on.

Character was behind the economic problems – greed, fraud, and deceit at freddie Mac/Fannie May contributed significantly to this crisis. McCain touched on this in one answer.

I think he missed an opportunity to say that our problems are caused by moral failings, not partisanship, and that one of the reasons he selected Gov Palin was because of her record in routing out corruption by both parties in AK. The McCain-Palin team will do the same in WDC and clean-up government and the economy.

Character and national security – by what moral authority could a President Obama go to Tehran and criticize the Iranians for associating with terrorists?

Obama’s answers to the nat. security questions were about as good as McCains, so you have to know about Obama’s background to see why McCain is stronger.

David123

That mortgage thing was

frat (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:13PM EST (link)

very bad. So, the govt is going to assist in all aspects of economic loss for every American? The game is becoming one of which poltiician can promise the greater handouts.

The free market economy is in mortal danger.

We are rapidly moving towards what Toqueville referred to as “soft despostism,” “a despotism of enervation, where liberty is abandoned and a bloated central power administers to the needs of an infantalized population.”

Regardless

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 10:13PM EST (link)

Regardless, at this point, he’s likely to become president.

You can “hunker down” and listen to Rush and Hannity keep the bile running for another 4 or you can PUT YOUR COUNTRY FIRST and keep your politics at a distant second. At least until you have an opporunity to vote again in another 4.

IMO neither of these guys or their running mates are Presidential material at this point in time. McCain 8 years ago… sure. Palin 4-8 from now… sure. Obama… whatever.

Point is, you can slink back in your chair and cuss under your breath or you can get behind the President of your country and try to unite the nation. If you don’t, well, you can continue to watch as our divisive us/them politics further crumble our stature as an economic superpower.

Wow

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 10:15PM EST (link)

Seems most people here have thrown in the towel for ’08.

Exactly

frat (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:16PM EST (link)

McCain had him on this and the issue of whether to invade Pakistan and he dropped the ball.

What an idiot. That was the best opportunity of the night.

 
 
 
 
 

Different Perspective

securitymom (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:17PM EST (link)

Senator McCain needs to pick up votes from independents. I think he came across as strong, yet understanding of the hardships some Americans are facing.

He has one more debate, and in the meantime he can go after Obama. Plenty of time to nail Obama.

“Security Mom/Grandma”

NO he didn't??

PaRep (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:18PM EST (link)

Don’t you think the McCain campaign knows what they are doing

Wow... Oh well, I will let you

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 10:19PM EST (link)

get down and get behind Obama…me, I just will cringe and try to survive.

If you actually like Socialism or Marxism, you will be fine… Me, not so much…

I do think it is nice of you to go along to get along though…

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

HUH

PaRep (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:25PM EST (link)

Zogby who was DEAD ON in 2004 has it a 2.6 point lead for Obama he had to draw Blood??

Hotline has it at a 2 point lead

I'll get behind The One -

Achance (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:25PM EST (link)

real hard! And he won’t like it, but I will.

In Vino Veritas

I have

frat (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:28PM EST (link)

Problem is, unlike many here, I think that Obama may take us down a road of no return. Many here think that if he sends us deeper into economic trouble and failure, that there will be a return to conservatism. I see just the opposite. People will be asking for even more govt to solve the problems that more govt created.

Not only that, the world is not standing still. You cannot discourage innovation and encourage mediocrity in educatio forever.

Reality check #2

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 10:30PM EST (link)

Socialism?

Let me review the last few weeks events:

Our country now owns and opperate the largest insurer in the world.

We now also own and opperate the US mortage industry.

We now also prop up failing sectors like the domestic auto industry because they thought gas would be cheap forever.

We now also prop up failed banks so the larger failing banks can safely buy them and continue to become “too big to fail”.

I’m missing some things…

These are all bedrocks of a socialist regime. Wait… what party is our President belong to? Wait… what party has our congress been controlled by for 6 of 8 years?

But now that Obama may likely become our next president THEN we’ll be socialist.

Right…

Yes

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 10:32PM EST (link)

anything that will stick…

I agree - character is the number one issue

Lwyrett (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 10:36PM EST (link)

I do think that McCain did address greed and cronyism – but the problem is you have to listen carefully for it because he always starts with bipartisanship. Which is sooooooo tiresome. By now, we all know that McCain reaches across the aisle.

Like I said, this is tiresome, and frankly, sickening. The problem is while Republicans are extending a hand, the Dems just bite and pinch instead of shake.

I got so tired of it when the Republicans were working on the “Congressional Bail-our-sorry-selves-out” – when the Republicans would update the media on the progress of discussions, they were always thanking a Dem; when the Dems would update the media, the Dem leadership would just snark the Republicans – to obfuscate their responsibility, we know now.

It is just that when you know the dog bites, don’t pat the dog!

~ ^-^ ~

I think you put too much stock in the powers of the postion of President...

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 10:36PM EST (link)

You know, people said the same thing about Clinton before he was inagurated.

What I remember most from the Clinton years is that I rose in the ranks from job to job in a great economy. Oh yeah, there was also some $50m report from Kenny Starr based on a BJ.

Well, I understand your confusion...

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 10:43PM EST (link)

I was also wondering just which party wanted to convert the country to Socialism.
Was it the Republican Party or the Democratic Party…

After much thought, and looking at the past history of both parties, I had to assume the Socialism was the ideals of the Democrat Party… Really, can you disagree?

The Republicans want to lower taxes (generally) – definitely non Socialist. The Democrats want to raise taxes (definitely Socialist).

The Republicans want to empower the individual. The Democrats want to empower the Government (Most definitely Socialist).

The Republicans believe in Free Speech. The Democrats want to enact the Fairness Doctrine (definitely Socialist).

The Democrats want to tax the rich and give money to the poor. The Republicans want individuals to be responsible for their own wealth. Watch out RICH (move quickly out of country) you will be targeted (pure Socialism).

Obama (wonderful Democrat) would like to allow ACORN to rule…(wonderfully Socialist group – force banks to give loans to the poor (who can’t afford the loans)). The dastardly Republicans want to give loans only to those that can afford them…(I’m aghast!).

I can understand your support for Obama, but really, do you realize that it just may be the end of America as we know it?

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

Apparently, Obama understands very little...

rbdwiggins (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 11:05PM EST (link)

And I suspect you understand even less.

That was no gift to Obama.

Had you been more informed, instead of regurgitating the same, tired leftist talking points, you would have known better.

Remember the Fall of Baghdad and all of those captured Iraqi Intelligence documents?

I do, and I suggest you spend some time reading through the translated source material in order to better educate yourself.

The image is your gateway.


CTC Harmony Reports

“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

Keep in mind, though

frat (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 11:10PM EST (link)

he will have a Demo congress.

This is gonna be fun....

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 11:17PM EST (link)

I’ll go through your points one by one.

  1. The Republicans want to lower taxes (generally) – definitely non Socialist. The Democrats want to raise taxes (definitely Socialist).

So yes, Republicans continually want to reduce taxes. How do you reconcile that view when (R) continually add to our deficit? It’s now doubled in the past 8 years to 10 TRILLION. So with (R) it seems to be more a shell game… we’ll keep your taxes the same or even lower them and we’ll BORROW what we need from CHINA. How will we ever pay them back?

  1. The Republicans want to empower the individual. The Democrats want to empower the Government (Most definitely Socialist).

Well, if I want to smoke pot, die with dignity, or abort a child, Republicans have not “empowered” me to do so. Even though in MOST circumstances, none of those descisions affects anyone but myself and my family. So actually they don’t believe in STATES RIGHTS when (R) needs to appeae the base for an election.

  1. The Republicans believe in Free Speech. The Democrats want to enact the Fairness Doctrine (definitely Socialist).

Incorrent, Republications believe in Free Speech ZONES. As in the little pens miles from a political speech.

  1. The Democrats want to tax the rich and give money to the poor. The Republicans want individuals to be responsible for their own wealth. Watch out RICH (move quickly out of country) you will be targeted (pure Socialism).

Given that we’re handing TRILLIONS of dollars to failed INVESTMENT BANKS, it doesn’t seem like the RICH aren’t very responsible with their wealth or anyone elses. So sure, (R) may “want” the rich to be responsible for their wealth… it’s OK if they don’t because the POOR and MIDDLE CLASS are there to bail them out.

  1. Obama (wonderful Democrat) would like to allow ACORN to rule…(wonderfully Socialist group – force banks to give loans to the poor (who can’t afford the loans)). The dastardly Republicans want to give loans only to those that can afford them…(I’m aghast!).

Really. Nobody forced Countrywide to loan to those who couldn’t afford it. They didn’t really care anyway because they could move that junk off their books and onto the books of YOUR pension funds. Ownership society at it’s best!

  1. I can understand your support for Obama, but really, do you realize that it just may be the end of America as we know it?

Where have you been the last 8 years. Or the last 8 weeks. Do these bailouts mean nothing to you so long as the guy who’s begging for them has an (R) next to his name.

I think the end of YOUR America is near. I believe MY America is coming back.

Wow, I actually wrote a bit by bit response to

dbecraft Tuesday, October 7th at 11:34PM EST (link)

your response…and then realized that it was fruitless…

Hey, you believe what you want, and I will believe with I want or will…

You are far too gone to convince so all is useless anyway…

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

Keep dreaming bud, conservatism can't be killed

JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, October 7th at 11:39PM EST (link)

If 1945-1979 could not kill conservatism, conservatism canno tbe killed.

We actually can’t be shut out like we once were.

While you criticisms have some merit with respect to nominal GOPers, conservatives are a people of freedom,free markets, American exceptionalism, and civil rights.

If you want to live in France, why not just move?

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

huh

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 11:40PM EST (link)

Kind of a cop-out there…

Confronted with legitimate responses and you just… fold. Believe me, I’m used to it.

Guess I’m just too far “gone”.

Right on

loganedwards Tuesday, October 7th at 11:55PM EST (link)

I appreciate people who understand that one can be a conservative without being a member of the GOP.

GOP/Democrats = political parties

Conversativism/Liberalism = Ideologies

Biggest problem is that many Republicans in Washington don’t adhere to the conservative ideaology. When it suits their purpose, sure. When votes are at stake… not so much.

Same can be definitely be said of Democrats who in just about any other country would be considered conservative.

My biggest problem is that in this two party system of ours it’s a zero sum game where we can never meet in the middle. It truly an American style that one side has to be crushed. Basically means 49% of people remain bitter for four years.

France?

loganedwards Wednesday, October 8th at 12:02AM EST (link)

Who said I liked or wanted to move to France?

I said we were becoming more France that France due to the US nationalizing some very important industies.

I never thought it was come to this.

However, it’s become clear that a completely free market does not work.

You know, that is interesting...

dbecraft Wednesday, October 8th at 12:06AM EST (link)

I am a registered independent just because I have become angry with the GOP (spending, immigration and all).

I did write a long response to your last post but lost it (need to write offline i guess) with a post error and decided to give it up. Your arguments are silly though…

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

So you would prefer the European approach

JSobieski (Diary) Wednesday, October 8th at 12:14AM EST (link)

of coalition government where nothing gets done (besides the expansion of socialism) and reform is impossible? See France, Germany, et al for chronic 10% unemployment rates even when the economy is good.

The artificial mandate of a US President capturing 270 electoral votes with 52, 51, or even 48 % of the vote was SHEER GENIUS by the Founding Fathers.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

Why is that clear? What completely free market are you talking about?

JSobieski (Diary) Wednesday, October 8th at 12:18AM EST (link)

We have been consistently adding regulations since 1990. The Bush administration is no exception. Ever hear of Sarbanes-Oxley? Mark-to-Market accounting rules?

The only President to really de-regulate anything was Reagan. And the period of time from 1984 to 2008 is far better than the time from 1960 to 1984.

Using Bush policies as a straw man for conservative policies is defamation.

Next thing you know, you will be calling our current health care system a free market system.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

Meeting in the middle will result in a movement to be like France

JSobieski (Diary) Wednesday, October 8th at 12:20AM EST (link)

Government expands unless a purposeful effort is made to keep it under control. Meeting in the middle is just another way of saying, conservatives, don’t resist, lets just take it slow.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

Good point!

Lwyrett (Diary) Wednesday, October 8th at 1:40AM EST (link)

From what I have read and heard, independents and undecideds prefer reason, genteel discourse, and restrained attack on issues only. This audience was composed of undecideds.

On the other hand, we have made up our minds as to both the kind of government we want and who we want in the White House, so for us, it is like watching a relative on Family Feud!

Speaking for myself, I think that is why I so identify with Sarah – I feel like I am a hockey mom, and John McCain is my kid on the team! [Admittedly, I am putting a spin on the age issue!]

~ ^-^ ~

Where does McCain get the money from?

csstudent Wednesday, October 8th at 2:17AM EST (link)

I’d like to know where McCain gets the money to buy the mortgages and lower people’s principal balances that he proposed in the debate. Besides the fact that we don’t have money for this, what business does the government have to bailout people who owe more on their house than it’s worth? Does McCain even have a clue what it means to be conservative???

Any chance we could get Sarah Palin on the top of the ticket now and find a VP for her. I honestly am at the point now where I believe that the only way to defeat Obama is to have McCain go back to the senate and have somebody else on the top of the ticket.

Thrown in, no way

JoeG Thursday, October 9th at 12:49PM EST (link)

I really hope McCain wins, and I have doubts on the polls accuracy.

McCain is three years older than Reagan at this point. He may not run again.

If he does, I hope Jindal tries to primary him.