… I do seriously believe that this will hurt the Democrats more than Republicans, especially in the wake of the 2004 hearing video on Fannie and Freddie corruption. If the Republicans in the House are smart, they can use this to “Nationalize” the election like Newt did in 2004 and hammer the Democrats.

At this time, yes we will encounter some tough economic times, but now that I have seen how little the market dropped, it is not going to be as bad as we have been told it will be. However, tonight overseas and in the morning we will be able to tell a whole lot better.

I do believe the Democrat dirty hands in this will be front and center going into this election. I think this may work out better than expected for Republicans.

I still have no regrets in opposing this.

Erick, why is it 60+ Republicans who voted no, versus 95 Democrats who voted against it? What’s the narrative behind representing the 133 Republican noes as ’60+’? (Aside: I’m a Brit, although living in the USA; so there may be something about House procedure that I’m not getting here).

1. I believe Katie Couric’s staff (handlers?) posted a graphic including the fact that the 9-17-2001 drop was 7.1%, but she didn’t read that point out loud.

2. We always say that we want leaders who are principled — until those principles differ from our own, of course.

3. Very good question. Depends on how badly they can twist it between now and 11/4.

4. San Fran Gran Nan doesn’t have the nerve nor skill to get it done, unless it happens in a lame duck session. W would sign it, though.

5. Spread the word: Barney Frank & Chris Dodd’s chickens have come home to roost!

your lips to God’s ears; are you sure you’re not smoking or drinking something!

1. President Bush is now well and truly a Lame Duck. There will be no new legislative initiatives put forth by the President, and even if there were they would be DOA. Even when the President throws in with Nasty Nancy and Donks, he can’t get Republican House members to vote with him. It’s now a case of George W(ho)?

2. The ball is now in Johnny Mac’s court. Do something constructive or not do, McCain has found this steaming pile of excrement, jumped in it, rolled in it and now has the stench of this crisis all over him. At this point where the excrement came from is not important, well Donks are trying to make that important but that’s another rant, what is important is how McCain will or will not lead his party in both the House and the Senate to offer up a true conservative alternative to plans already badly crafted and badly pushed by the President and his team.

now sign up for one more liberal. No, the GOP has the leverage now.

The stock market was tanking (down 300), early on, when it looked like the bill was going to pass easily.

I wrote a blog here this am saying that while I did not support the bill, that we should not vilify repubs that supported it and that we should laud them improving the bill so much.

As I watched the bailout vote come over CSPAN I couldn’t help but notice the writing on the wall behind the Speaker’s seat…

“IN GOD WE TRUST“

Maybe we should give it a little more than just lip service. I agree, representative democracy won today as it did on immigration and other bills in our history. I find it odd that we fought a revolution (or war for those that can take it) over finances and yet our principles of limited government are now laughed at.

I just have a fear in my hear that things are going to bad, governance wise, before they get better. How much longer will we have to continue to hound our legislators to prevent socialism or other grasps at our liberties? I can stand judicious use of intelligence capabilities being used on Americans but can we seriously keep fighting back the tide of “progressive” movements that endanger Western culture… which is rooted in free-market capitalism?

This is what happens when the approval ratings of our legislature is in single digits.

You guys have all seen soldiers say something like, “I’d follow him to hell with a bucket of water,” when referring to their leaders. That’s because they trust him to be wise, his charge to be necessary, and him to be as protective of his men as possible.

On the other hand, we have a Congress who is well known to be dishonest failures. They have their own best interests at heart, and to he!! with the country.

Then an emergency occurs, and they need to convince Americans that an unpleasant task is necessary, and Americans say, “Yeah, right. You’re a lying turd. You’ve been a lying turd for so long, I wouldn’t believe you if you said the sky was blue. STFU, or we’ll toss you out on your ear.”

And to American congresscritters: Welcome to life as an untrustworthy liar whose been found out. Wouldn’t it be nice now to have earned a little respect?

Proper grammar saves lives.

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.

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Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

1. If you look at the market response to the failed bailout action in terms of basis points, you will see the drop was significantly higher than that of 1987 and any other recessionary market collapse seen, with the one exception of 1929.

2. Rescuing the financial markets is not up to constituents, which is why we have monetary policymakers mandated to manage our economy and thus stabilize our economy. It should never have come down to elected officials driven by politics. Constituents, from an aggregate viewpoint, don’t have the best solution as to how we must act to rescue the markets. That’s why we don’t elect the Fed Chairman and other monetary policymakers. Even Newt agreed that although the package on the table was not politically optimal for everyone involved, the markets needed Congress to step up and do its job of govern, not pander to politics. After all, their job is to govern, not just listen to constituents. Sure, the voters put them there and they represent constituents, but their job is to make the tough decisions that are best for the country, especially when information assymetries exist, not allowing all constituents to be fully informed about the full details. I know this sounds harsh, but monetary policy is not subject to a vote … we elect the people that appoint/confirm monetary policymakers and that is where the democratic process stops, because quite frankly, the economy is not something we can directly leave up to every Joe and Jane Voter throughout the country

3. If it were as simple as the media portraying it the way you describe, then this would be correct, but unfortunately, the GOP will come out as costing everyone. Dems will milk every ounce of political capital out of this situation as they can and then will sweep in as the rescuers. The reason the public “didn’t support” the plan was because of the price tag and there is a false perception that this was socializing the markets (which it isn’t). If you look at the price data, after today’s failed vote and subsequent plunge, we paid in the capital markets more than what the original bailout would have costed … and that was a direct hit to the country’s bottom line, which the bailout would not have been. So, businesses will fail, retirements will be depleted, and negative macroeconomic effects will accelerate all because politics took over the wheel. In the end, we will likely pay at least twice that which was originally expected, with over $500b lost just this afternoon.

4. By letting political pride drive the process rather than cool heads, the GOP handed all of the strong cards over to the Democrats in this situation. Not only did they come out looking like innocents today, but as I previously said, they will emerge as the rescuers when a package actually does pass. And, whatever plan comes down the pipe will inevitably be tilted towards a Dem agenda, because now we have realized just how critical a bailout is. No one will stand by again for another afternoon in the markets like today, not even the most ignorant bullheaded of the bunch.

5. You’re right … they are all to blame. Dems and the GOP on this one. They all played politics. But, when it comes to people losing money, they don’t care about the vote splits. Voters are not taking the Sept 29 roll call votes to the polls with them. Their image of politicians will already be crafted by the media and how they associate the fallout in their markets related to how it affects their pocketbook, and then drive their support in that direction. If I am a small business owner, and I need economic stabilization and strengthened credit markets to that I can meet payroll next month (and the next 12 months), then that’s the telescope through which I am seeing things right now … not how the caucus numbers and vote spreads stacked up. Once voters/constituents/citizens are affected this way, all that restoration of fiscal conservatism ideology malarkey will be forgotten. Now, those who voted asgainst restoring stability into the financial markets will be looked at as ignorant, stubborn know-nothings, which most voters already look at them as. This just confirmed it for many.

Uh, some of us were saying THIS THREE DAYS AGO!! Thanks for realizing this rather salient point NOW after the vote already happened.

“Those of us who opposed the bill may actually have shot ourselves in the foot. Now Nancy and the Dems could very well pass a bill far to the left”…

1) Not surprised, although anyone with an ounce of brains and/or memory knew that already.
2) One of the reasons that the USA is a republic and not a democracy is because the elected officials are expected to use their judgment in cases where the masses are wrong. Is this one of those cases? I suppose history will sort that out. But I don’t think that Congress is 100% obligated to canvass their constituents for how they should vote. They should listen and then balance what they hear with what they (the Congresspeople) believe is right.
3) Yes, it hurts Republicans. Every one of these kind of things is another chink in the numbers. But what are you going to do?
4) I just heard a conservative radio host talking about just that – now the Pelosi Dems have basically free reign to push through whatever travesty of a bill that they want. And we’re basically powerless, at least until it hits the Senate.
5) As I posted in an earlier thread, NO ONE should be surprised by the media response. There’s precious little chance that the masses will hear the GOP side of the story. See 1) and 3).
6) & 7) nothing to add

1. Does it really hurt Republicans that the media is blaming the GOP for killing something the public did not want anyway?

Considering the overwhelming public outcry against it, aren’t the GOP the heroes? (I should say the RSC.) I wonder if the media spin will backfire on the Dems.

I hope Palin is ready to hit from several angles tomorrow.

is procedural. In order to bypass a lot of the procedures that would delay bringing up the bill for a vote, it was presented as a substitute amendment for an older tax bill.

See here.

In order to bypass a lot of the procedures that would delay bringing up the bill for a vote, it was presented as a substitute amendment for an older tax bill.

See here.

They can vote NO to anything trying to socialize markets and force class-warfare Leninism on us.

If it passes, then we know which way the bullets will be flying, if the rumors that Americans are calling their representatives at the rate of 9-1 against!

Be prepared for a reaction against incumbents, especially ideologue Dems, in November.

Republicans can stop using the word bail-out and use “stabilization” and they can start demanding a cap of 250 billion on loans, not hand-outs, to decent Wall Street firms, and a matching 250 billion in spending cuts, a pittance out of a nearly 3 trillion dollar budget, i.e. 3 thousand billion! Less than 1 per cent in cuts could send a positive psychological signal: but you know the Dems will scream. And so: “Democrats will not even agree to less than 1% in cuts to help our economy!”

Americans need to be taught some basic math about percentages and some basic economics: economics is psychology, and nothing is free. The McCain campaign has a chance to teach this at the Dems expense.

You guys can’t run a simple web site. You think you are qualified to criticize everybody (Pelosi, Democrats, House Republicans, Bush, Paulson, Bernanke…) and impute motives to them.

Learn to run a web site first, it’s been having problems for weeks now. You can then start advising on how to fix the financial markets.

While the media blames the House GOP for stopping the bill, it actually helps us. I’ll give you two solid reasons:

1. It shows they are listening to Main Street, not Wall Street. The Democrats were planning on using this vote as a way to campaign against a lot of our weaker incumbents to paint them as out of touch with everyday American lives. Now they can’t.

2. Look at how the most endangered Freshman Democrats and the Blue Dogs voted. Almost every single one of them voted NAY. That tells you where the political center of gravity is on this bailout.

Look, I work in the financial markets and am well aware of the freeze in credit markets. I fully realize the impact this will have on the global economy.

I also know that socialism (or fascism in the case of the power that Paulson wanted to be vested with) is not the cure to markets repricing risk, and a crisis of confidence in the banking system.

In the end, all government can do is stretch out and prolong the adjustment. Look at the Great Depression. The worst two years of it were 1936 and 1937 – mostly because of FDR distorting the free market with the heavy hand of government.

While the media blames the House GOP for stopping the bill, it actually helps us. I’ll give you two solid reasons:

1. It shows they are listening to Main Street, not Wall Street. The Democrats were planning on using this vote as a way to campaign against a lot of our weaker incumbents to paint them as out of touch with everyday American lives. Now they can’t.

2. Look at how the most endangered Freshman Democrats and the Blue Dogs voted. Almost every single one of them voted NAY. That tells you where the political center of gravity is on this bailout.

Look, I work in the financial markets and am well aware of the freeze in credit markets. I fully realize the impact this will have on the global economy.

I also know that socialism (or fascism in the case of the power that Paulson wanted to be vested with) is not the cure to markets repricing risk, and a crisis of confidence in the banking system.

In the end, all government can do is stretch out and prolong the adjustment. Look at the Great Depression. The worst two years of it were 1936 and 1937 – mostly because of FDR distorting the free market with the heavy hand of government.

@mike_carton

You think that criticizing “everybody” (your friends: Pelosi, Democrats, House Republicans, Bush, Paulson, Bernanke…) is equivalent to poorly running a website? I’m in the presence of a genius!

Before you speak again, why don’t you get a little education for yourself and do us all a favor.

Is to make it dramatically clear that Barney Frank is a fraud. He is a puppet of FNMA and FMAC. He should be demanded to resign. He stopped reform when it mattered, and now he and Pelosi are playing chicken with the national economy.
The deference of Republicans to demoslime is disgusting me.
Why bother being nice to people who are stabbing you int he back?
Pres. Bush is like Charlie Brown, and Pelosi is Nancy, and his naivete is costing us all.
Enough.
The only thing that matters is that the democrat hacks who destroyed FNMA and FMAC are working for Obama.
WHY IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO ANYONE?

If you watch the footage of it being introduced or read any of the drafts it’s called:

Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008

Whoever posted the roll call vote screwed up the name.

I pray to God that Republican can find it in themselves to realize just how scared people are. Living in NYC today u could just feel how frantic everyone is and I myself still have a turn in my stomach

Do I like the fact we need this bill? Hell no!

Do we need this bill to safeguard many people on the bubble and safeguard the system? Hell yes!

We need this bill

I’m wondering where one might actually find this government plan in black and white … to save the financial markets. Where will the money go exactly …. every cent. who will benefit, who will not….how will it impact the taxpayers? What is the expected result and how soon?

Why have we become a culture that depends entirely on credit…what ever happened to the concept of buying what you can afford?

A detailed explanation to the American public is in order….not just from Bush, but from every politician in Congress. If government organizations like Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were responsible for the ‘bad debt’ that has not wrecked havoc on our economy, where is the guarantee from our politicial ‘representativs’ that this will never happen again???? I don’t hear it from anyone….. It is not necessary to have an advanced decree in economics to know that giving out loans to bad risk customers is stupid…. Let’s hear someone say it won’t happen again…..

It’s amazing to me that people cannot distinguish politics from ideology, principles from pragmatism. After all, we are a minority party. All this talk of conservtive solutions are just hot air. “look at us” moments.

You can be a principled conservitve and principled person and still recognize that all of politics is about compromise.