Who holds the Federal Reserve Bank of New York responsible for their actions with taxpayer monies?
They are not elected.
They can spend our money, but we cannot toss them out at the polls. We must toss out other people and then hope that those people take action.
How does this happen? This is not about whether AIG needed saving or not. This is about our system of government.
Why have elected officials? Why have Congress at all?
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
I strongly agree
talleyrand Wednesday, September 17th at 9:10AM EST (link)It seems as though our legislative branch can only pass one or two major pieces of legislation a year, while major decisions are made daily by various executive and judicial entities.
The problem is that congress screams for attention, makes all the promises, and sucks up all the press. The episodic politics of congress make it a soap opera that is mildly entertaining but cheap, and while the personalities distract the focus, the policies are given less scrutiny by the public they serve.
The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him.
-Niccolo Machiavelli
This was always the danger
enrique Wednesday, September 17th at 9:13AM EST (link)You’ve hit the nail on the head. The danger with our financial system ever since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913(?) was that an unelected public-private institution would control the country’s money supply. The bankers would set their own rules and print their own money.
Sure the president picks the head but he is left to choose between the ones the Reserve Board nominates. There is no congressional oversight because they don’t understand it. And everything seems to work out okay, so why bother.
Then the urge is always to keep inflation roaring to keep investments high and business booming. This causes oversupply and a general failure to clean out the dead wood adequately leaving large bubbles bursting.
And everyone let them inflate the money supply to fund wars, social programs, and bridges to nowhere. It’s all of our faults for failing to understand the system, and Congress’s for not overseeing them, and now the time for all of us to pay dearly for the hubris of a generation now long gone is here.
“There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one striking at the root.” Henry David Thoreau
RON PAUL
profg (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 9:20AM EST (link)I can say his name, because I fall within the guidelines of RedState.
Erick, I’m surprised at you. You’re starting to sound like the Good Doctor… except he’s been warning about the Fed for over 20 years, while neocons pooh-pooh’d and insisted it was all for our own good.
“You’ll thank me later.” Well, later is now, and where are we? On the path to hyper-inflation.
Whee.
Be respectful, or be banned. No Profanity.
Decent video
enrique Wednesday, September 17th at 9:25AM EST (link)Here is a good video that describes the federal reserve. It is heavily slanted towards a gold currency but it really explains well how the fed works and its brief history.
If nothing else, it helps explain what the Fed’s credit window, how fractional reserve banking works, and how the monetary system works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZM58dulPE
“There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one striking at the root.” Henry David Thoreau
LOL
liberalrepublican (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 9:26AM EST (link)I was thinking the exact same thing.
It sounded like a Ron Paul rant.
“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”
I strongly disagree
mikefisk (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 9:51AM EST (link)Political independence is what makes our federal reserve system work… could you imagine how badly Congressional Democrats could screw things up economically if they had the Fed by the stones?
I don’t even want to think about that as a possible outcome.
“Once within the maw of Leviathan, degree of digestion is irrelevant.” – Michael Fisk
9.25, -4.77
Simple answer Erick
Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 10:32AM EST (link)Congress created the current paradigm vis-à-vis e Federal Reserve Act. This simplistic piece of legislation gave the FED power over monetary policy, currency stabilization and an ability to act in emergency situations. Not to defend all this nonsense, but the Fed is doing their job; period. If Congress wants them out according to our Constitution they can legislate them out. I submit that is a much riskier proposition than existing actions.
Partially in their defense, on AIG I would argue the US government could actually make money on the deal. When is the last time Congress penned such perspicacious legislation?
This all came about in contemporary times because Congress rejected a plan by Republican author Nelson Aldrich in which 12 regional banks (called National Reserve Associations) would be privately held. But Congress in its infinite wisdom decided that such power could not be put in the hands of private evil banking concerns (oooh-scary). So here we are back to Hamiltonian- Jeffersonian and later Jacksonian/Whig type arguments which occurred during the the First/Second Bank of the United States.
Overall, a decent case can be made the Federal Reserve has done more good than harm; my opinion. Most recently, they have done a lousy job of creating new regulations which address contemporary financial complexities that accurately measure risk. This permitted corporations taking these risks to act within the laws and guidelines, otherwise they would be on trial (not one of those Senate, blustering, stammering kangaroo sessions which I am sure is in our future).
Trust me, the industry remedies are already on the way with new Treasury/FED actions that range from accounting standards consolidation, lending policy and collateral requirements. McCain is exactly right to see these as vehicles by which we cure our current ills and mitigate future damage. The answers are not found in, as Bozobama suggests, finger pointing at evil hedge fund guys and heavy handed legislation/regulation. That inevitably stalls growth, shrinks financial opportunity and will increase the scope of this crisis. It also chases companies to overseas markets; a very valid concern with the increasing globalization of economies.
To be dismissive of the Fed’s actions at this point is to ignore their critical role which I believe will be lauded a few years down the road.
“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson
Simple answer Erick
Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 10:34AM EST (link)Congress created the current paradigm vis-à-vis e Federal Reserve Act. This simplistic piece of legislation gave the FED power over monetary policy, currency stabilization and an ability to act in emergency situations. Not to defend all this nonsense, but the Fed is doing their job; period. If Congress wants them out according to our Constitution they can legislate them out. I submit that is a much riskier proposition than existing actions.
Partially in their defense, on AIG I would argue the US government could actually make money on the deal. When is the last time Congress penned such perspicacious legislation?
This all came about in contemporary times because Congress rejected a plan by Republican author Nelson Aldrich in which 12 regional banks (called National Reserve Associations) would be privately held. But Congress in its infinite wisdom decided that such power could not be put in the hands of private evil banking concerns (oooh-scary). So here we are back to Hamiltonian- Jeffersonian and later Jacksonian/Whig type arguments which occurred during the the First/Second Bank of the United States.
Overall, a decent case can be made the Federal Reserve has done more good than harm; my opinion. Most recently, they have done a lousy job of creating new regulations which address contemporary financial complexities that accurately measure risk. This permitted corporations taking these risks to act within the laws and guidelines, otherwise they would be on trial (not one of those Senate, blustering, stammering kangaroo sessions which I am sure is in our future).
Trust me, the industry remedies are already on the way with new Treasury/FED actions that range from accounting standards consolidation, lending policy and collateral requirements. McCain is exactly right to see these as vehicles by which we cure our current ills and mitigate future damage. The answers are not found in, as Bozobama suggests, finger pointing at evil hedge fund guys and heavy handed legislation/regulation. That inevitably stalls growth, shrinks financial opportunity and will increase the scope of this crisis. It also chases companies to overseas markets; a very valid concern with the increasing globalization of economies.
To be dismissive of the Fed’s actions at this point is to ignore their critical role which I believe will be lauded a few years down the road.
“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson
Simple answer Erick
Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 10:36AM EST (link)Congress created the current paradigm vis-à-vis e Federal Reserve Act. This simplistic piece of legislation gave the FED power over monetary policy, currency stabilization and an ability to act in emergency situations. Not to defend all this nonsense, but the Fed is doing their job; period. If Congress wants them out according to our Constitution they can legislate them out. I submit that is a much riskier proposition than existing actions.
Partially in their defense, on AIG I would argue the US government could actually make money on the deal. When is the last time Congress penned such perspicacious legislation?
This all came about in contemporary times because Congress rejected a plan by Republican author Nelson Aldrich in which 12 regional banks (called National Reserve Associations) would be privately held. But Congress in its infinite wisdom decided that such power could not be put in the hands of private evil banking concerns (oooh-scary). So here we are back to Hamiltonian- Jeffersonian and later Jacksonian/Whig type arguments which occurred during the the First/Second Bank of the United States.
Overall, a decent case can be made the Federal Reserve has done more good than harm; my opinion. Most recently, they have done a lousy job of creating new regulations which address contemporary financial complexities that accurately measure risk. This permitted corporations taking these risks to act within the laws and guidelines, otherwise they would be on trial (not one of those Senate, blustering, stammering kangaroo sessions which I am sure is in our future).
Trust me, the industry remedies are already on the way with new Treasury/FED actions that range from accounting standards consolidation, lending policy and collateral requirements. McCain is exactly right to see these as vehicles by which we cure our current ills and mitigate future damage. The answers are not found in, as Bozobama suggests, finger pointing at evil hedge fund guys and heavy handed legislation/regulation. That inevitably stalls growth, shrinks financial opportunity and will increase the scope of this crisis. It also chases companies to overseas markets; a very valid concern with the increasing globalization of economies.
To be dismissive of the Fed’s actions at this point is to ignore their critical role which I believe will be lauded a few years down the road.
“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson
Libs and Cons finally agree on something!
Beerman (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 10:40AM EST (link)Verbatim from the frontpage at DailyKos:
What a complete and utter mess. Are you folks on RedState buying ammo like we (well some of us) are?
Structure of the Federal Reserve Banks
BrianMcDaniel Wednesday, September 17th at 10:42AM EST (link)From The Economy of Money, Banking and Financial Markets by Frederic S. Mishkin:
On the independence of the Fed:
I’ve written more at www.BrianMcDaniel.org/?p=977.
Structure of the Federal Reserve Banks
BrianMcDaniel Wednesday, September 17th at 10:44AM EST (link)From The Economy of Money, Banking and Financial Markets by Frederic S. Mishkin:
On the independence of the Fed:
I’ve written more at www.BrianMcDaniel.org/?p=977.
Partisanship is not a valid reason for this
Zigguratv Wednesday, September 17th at 10:49AM EST (link)We could also have a Republican King, and then we wouldn’t fear the Democrats getting involved at all.
This isn’t about political independence, it’s about accountability. Who keeps an eye on what these ‘independents’ are doing? What happens if they start behaving in a corrupt manner?
The bridge to nowhere was about 500 million dollars, and it was (rightly) a fight through congress. This transaction was about 85 billion, and the decision has already been made!
Federal Reserve system working?
AskMeLater (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 10:53AM EST (link)Let me get this straight. You feel some bankers in a closed room in a marble palace can make better decisions about your money than you can? You clearly don’t trust Congress (I don’t blame you). Why so eager to trust nameless, faceless bankers and Wall Street with your economic future?
The federal reserve system isn’t working. It is part of the reason we are in this mess. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I can make better decisions about my money and my economic activity than Congress, Wall Street or banking elite.
The position being taken is not to be mistaken
For attempted education or righteous accusation
Only a description just an observation of the pitiful
Condition of our degeneration
agreed Marcus
kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 11:01AM EST (link)The Fed has mostly done more good than harm, although I get the feeling that the current group are in over their heads.
The biggest failure of the government in the last thirty years, (both parties) is the failure to enforce anti-monopoly laws.
These financial house failures are such a big problem precisely because the firms were “too big to fail”. So the Fed had no choice but to do something.
That amount of stratification in one important industry should never have occurred. AIG should never have been allowed to buy up (using leverage no less) such a huge share of the insurance capital assets markets.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
agreed Marcus
kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 11:04AM EST (link)The Fed has mostly done more good than harm, although I get the feeling that the current group are in over their heads.
The biggest failure of the government in the last thirty years, (both parties) is the failure to enforce anti-monopoly laws.
These financial house failures are such a big problem precisely because the firms were “too big to fail”. So the Fed had no choice but to do something.
That amount of stratification in one important industry should never have occurred. AIG should never have been allowed to buy up (using leverage no less) such a huge share of the insurance capital assets markets.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Gov't, Gold, and the Fed
NT Wednesday, September 17th at 11:50AM EST (link)The value of our money comes from ordinary supply and demand. Demand is generated by external forces, such as willingness to borrow. Somehow, we as a nation must set the supply. The government has effectively three options: manage money manually, link to a commodity, or create an independent central bank.
Mikefisk brought up the concern with allowing the government to manage money: if Congress could use inflation to “tax” purchasing power covertly, the economy would collapse from the spending spree’s inflationary pressure. This is the cause of the dreaded hyperinflations of history.
Congressman Paul’s plan was to revive the gold standard. That action would effectively fix the supply of money at some level. As long as the government issued less than the full possible amount, the system would have some flexibility, like the current central bank system. Unfortunately, government wants to spend every dollar it can find. Ultimately, with an inability to raise the supply of money (due to lacking more gold to back it up), any recession could easily become a full-blown panic, with bank runs and the works. The Great Depression would have been less severe if the money supply had not collapsed then.
The Federal Reserve (central bank) seems to be the most flexible system, but it is the least accountable. If the Fed were Congress’ subordinate, scenario 1 would occur. If the Fed doesn’t enlarge the money supply, see scenario 2. An independent Fed is necessary for the Fed to do some unpopular things (notably, preventing scenario 1 when congressmen demand more money for pork). The insulation from popular government is a strength economically, but a weakness politically. There is a certain need to trust the Fed, or the whole system will unravel.
Finally, please be aware that this is not all taxpayer money. The Fed creates money out of thin air, so the loss to taxpayers consists of inflation caused by expanding the money supply (which actually hits anyone holding dollars). The Fed does not spend money directly appropriated from taxpayers.
Holy Crap You're Right
Shaggy_Dog (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 11:55AM EST (link)Ron Paul for President!
Not a Ron Paul Rant
sturner Wednesday, September 17th at 1:58PM EST (link)I don’t see it as a Ron Paul rant. I’ve had friends on both sides of the aisle discuss this issue with concern. We sit and argue over million dollar earmarks while the Fed just handed $85 billion of our dollars to a failing business. No debate, no discussions, just $85 billion as if it was nothing.
It wasn't handed out
ekevlar11 (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 2:26PM EST (link)It was “made available” at ruinous rates and with a benefit to the U.S. based on what blackhedd wrote. Really, the guarantee appears to be more about ensuring liquidity until the assets can be sold. It doesn’t sound to me that any money was given away….
Erik
I fail to see your point
mikefisk (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 2:38PM EST (link)How does a banker of last resort control my economic future? I think you’re ascribing more power to them than they probably deserve (and I’m no fan of the Federal Reserve in its current incarnation myself, being more of a monetarist).
The Fed has no more ability to control an individual’s economic future than a tea leaf can control which Lipton bag it ends up in.
“Once within the maw of Leviathan, degree of digestion is irrelevant.” – Michael Fisk
9.25, -4.77
Bad comparison
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 2:38PM EST (link)Since Ron Paul keeps screaming that the Fed is an illegal private institution, no?
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
How do I get one?
sturner Wednesday, September 17th at 2:49PM EST (link)Can all of us with businesses get a loan like this too? I’m sure a lot of businesses wouldn’t mind borrowing billions at that rate. Why do only select companies get this money “made available” to them?
Acquire a trillion in assets, and we can talk (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 3:04PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Now, there you have a point
ekevlar11 (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 3:08PM EST (link)I feel it is wrong that it appears we’ve allowed these companies to grow to such a size that we can’t let them fail.
I think you do have that right to borrow money. Call your credit card company or bank…heck, they’re still giving it away.
But in this case:
“The New York Fed will create a special credit facility for AIG. It will last for 24 months, during which time AIG may borrow up to $85 billion, at an interest rate of three-month dollar LIBOR plus 850 basis points.”
Read blackhedd’s article:
http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/sep/17/the-united-states-acquires-aig-the-largest-a/
Notice the “may”.
So, do you want to give you 80% of your company or hey, how about your house for a line of credit you may or may not use at 14% interest? Not a very good deal in my book.
Erik
It is private
enrique Wednesday, September 17th at 5:34PM EST (link)In this instance, Ron Paul is correct. The Federal Reserve is a private entity where basically a bunch of banks have grouped together to set the credit markets for currency. They were created by the Federal Reserve Act. The conspiracy theorists love that it was voted on in a surprise move during Christmas break to help its passage (supposedly – those nefarious bankers!).
They are ‘independent’ but under its charter is under the purview of Congress. Of course, most congressmen don’t understand the system and a great majority realize that it is this system that allows the government deficit spend and ‘print money to pay for their special projects. Exactly what cannot be done at the state level.
Whatever you think of the system, it is private but works closely with the executive branch through the Treasury Department.
“There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one striking at the root.” Henry David Thoreau
If
sturner Wednesday, September 17th at 5:35PM EST (link)If I had a trillion in assets, I’d have sold $85 billion worth and not needed to beg tax payers for it.
Well not illegal
enrique Wednesday, September 17th at 5:36PM EST (link)I’m not sure how he says it’s illegal. But it is private.
“There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one striking at the root.” Henry David Thoreau
Good question
BlackSoul Wednesday, September 17th at 8:28PM EST (link)I hope we care enough to demand an answer.
$85 billion / 300 million Americans = $280
Congratulations, comrade, you just spent $280 bailing out a private company, like it or not. At the closing price today that is worth 137 shares of AIG stock. Good luck capitalizing on that.
The problem is the financial crisis isn't over
jphamlore (Diary) Wednesday, September 17th at 10:28PM EST (link)The markets executed over the course of a year Lehman, Merrill, and AIG. The inevitable culmination occurred this week. The Fed’s lowering rates starting last August have done nothing to save the endangered financial companies. I would argue that lowering rates and the Bear Stearns bailout sent messages to executive management of the endangered companies that they did not have to take immediate drastic action to either raise capital by selling assets or to increase investor confidence by dramatically increasing the transparency of their financial situations.
Unfortunately there are at least three other fairly large financial firms that the markets have also been executing over the past year, including another one that is too big to fail.