THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS VIGILANCE — AND A POTENT FRONT KICK
The RedState users say ‘us too’!
~~~~~~~~~~
MINOR UPDATE (05JAN2009):
Over 70 regular users have signed on, others have Reco’ed. And at this point Israel has ground troops conducting operations and engaging Hamas thugs in Gaza. Looks like they are not going to stop short of Baghdad, so to speak. Good on them! [and I saw that, Jeff]
~~~~~~~~~~
Today (12/29/2008) the Directors at RedState spoke eloquently in support of Israel as Israel has over the last 2 days launched lethally effective air strikes at Hamas and rocket launch sites (as usual, placed in and near civilian areas) in Gaza, in territory recently ceded by Israel. Gratitude for Israel’s giving over Gaza to the Palestinians has been expressed over the months — in classic Islamist terrorist style — by ever-more-frequent, ever-more-deep-range rocket attacks into Israeli territory.
Predictably, Israel stands alone, or nearly so. The UN, various European capitals, and most corners of the Middle East have failed to surprise anybody, bleating against the evil Israeli aggressors, and laying blame at Israel’s feet for inevitable civilian casualties. There are indications that the airstrikes are merely the prelude to more substantive acts by Israel in an effort to eradicate the threat posed by Islamist terrorists dedicated to the extinction of Israel. Troops are amassed at the border, and the defense minister has described it as “war to the bitter end”.
A nation has a right — in fact, a duty — to defend its own citizens and its own existence. That is one of the most basic tenets of conservatism, and in fact seems the most basic of commonsensical propositions. It simplifies things that Hamas has declared in so many words, and in a multitude of dastardly acts, their intention to eradicate Israel. Israel is, in my opinion, fully within its rights to retake Gaza, and in fact blast Syria, Hamas’ headquarters and safe haven, into rubble. Israel has over the years practiced extraordinary restraint in dealings with these barbarians, and their decision to take off the gloves and get nasty is the right thing to do.
But as Edmund Burke said: All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing. Israel has grown tired of doing nothing.
Without further gilding the lily, I wish, as a RedState user, to add my endorsement of Israel’s actions in the Gaza matter. I wholeheartedly support the endorsement given by the RedState directors. If anyone is with me, I will happily list your name along with mine. Just say so in the comments.
E Pluribus Unum
Jeff Emanuel
NightTwister
RottDawg
Aaron Gardner
bs
kyle8
MGamo
janis
George Claghorn
zuiko
Jaded
Brian Hibbert
mbecker908
Susannah
Finrod
LJ “Beaglescout” Miller
1SGinTN
tcgeol
Gabriel West
Kenny Solomon
rgirlinadcity
Wubbies World
woodsman
Pi Over Three
olsmithie
izoneguy
Yahuti
mailloux
Lammo
Joe_Schmo
JustLeaveMeAlone
Erick Brockway
DaMav
George Neitz
evanm
JPH
jdub19
Bill
eschristian
Diogenes314
streetwise
Putter
$peciallist
From ME to You
Jack_Savage
Raven
Blue_Collar_Muse
Scope
Kowalski
dwarfmama
Doc Holliday
Rod_Patrick
redneck_hippie
Mike gamecock Devine
civil_truth
CodeRedinPA
itrytobenice
peg_c
ulape
BlueStateSaint
SKilroe
USNJIMRET
Warren
Praying
Shannon Bell
hunter
Rich Tandler
TimB52
hoosierteacher
Husker
RedWhite_and_Truth
Crowe
tankertodd
AHALgal
Socrates
RoxannaDanna
ntrepid
randy streu
Hammer2008
Neil Stevens
Steve Maley
Daniel Horowitz
Jake Walker
I'm with you EPU.
NightTwister (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:00PM EST (link)I fully support Israel’s actions to defend themselves. These terrorist actions by Hamas must end, once and for all.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
I agree 100000000%
Elizabeth Christian (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:58PM EST (link)n/t
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
~Benjamin Franklin
100 million percent, with interest
GreyCloak (Diary) Saturday, January 17th at 2:41AM EST (link)I side with Israel that the rockets have to stop, and the Palestinians need to reject leaders that re-started the rocket campaign that has killed four Israelis.
It is unfortunate that Hamas was freely elected to replace the corrupt Fatah politicians who have now taken over West Bank administration. At least, we support Fatah because they can be bribed.
I won’t shed a tear for the Hamas leaders that that have been blown up, They brought this on. Nor do I mind that almost a third of the 1,140 (to date) Gaza casualties are politicians, police, and militants.
Of course, it might be mindful to consider the Gazan’s view of the situation. As a percentage (~.08%) of their population, they have lost in less than a month a number of men, women, and children somewhere between the US populations of Plano, TX and Buffalo, NY.
So, it will be interesting to see if there is a Final Solution to the Palestinian Problem. Cheer if you will.
Is there any time...
boothruskin (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 3:33AM EST (link)that we do NOT support Israel?
Such as when? (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 4:42AM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
boothruskin
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 11:43AM EST (link)is that a ‘sign me up’ or not? I don’t really know you, so I won’t presume.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I'm thinking he's a troll (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, January 4th at 3:37PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
boothruskin is one of those "Republicans for Obama"
janis (Diary) Sunday, January 4th at 4:59PM EST (link)so I’m betting he’s not in support of Israel.
Well boothruskin since you are not WE why yes there is a time....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, January 4th at 4:41PM EST (link)When they start putting their women and children where they keep their weapons and on the front lines and start chopping of peoples heads etc etc than WE will not support them……now poof begone!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Bye Hamas...nt
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:01PM EST (link)“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Put me on the list EPU...nt
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:04PM EST (link)“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
BTW EPU...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:45PM EST (link)This post is awesome…but I missed the part with the Edmund Burke and Russell Kirk quotes…..
…So when will conservatism school commence again….;^)….Maybe Diogenes can be a guest lecturer on classical liberalism and it’s effect on modern American Conservatism….;^)
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
LOL -- flaw fixed
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:09PM EST (link)Took care of that one — special delivery for you, Aaron.
I am currently cooking up both Fred 5 and 6. 5 is due out almost any day now. 5 is about Kirk Principle 4 (I am skipping 3, it’s almost indistinguishable from 2). 6 is a treatment, with some detail, of the influence of Burke on the Founding Fathers, esp on Madison, Hamilton, and Adams. It is fashionable to say that John Locke was the most primary influence on the thinking that bred the fledgling United States. I differ. I say it was Burke, and I’ll show why. I’ll probably beat down David Hume’s influence a little while I’m at it.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
You can add my name
Elizabeth Christian (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:01PM EST (link)thanks ; )
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
~Benjamin Franklin
Locke influenced the revolutionary strategy and rhetoric.
Diogenes314 (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 11:36AM EST (link)Burke more so the actual nation-building. But I always thought Hobbes had a clearer view of the nature of man, Locke was IMO trying to justify revolution (1688) with circular reasoning. And you forgot to mention anyone named Fred in your opening salvo.
And put my name down of course.
True on Locke
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:13PM EST (link)I think alot of the soaring rhetoric came from Locke, alot of the ‘free us from these chains’, the Patrick Henry type stuff (I LOVE me some Patrick Henry, by the way), the Live Free or Die stuff. And I respect that. And I think, honestly, the time for that is coming again if we stay on the road we are on as a nation.
But Burke’s Annual Register was consumed like beer nuts at an Eagles watch party by the true thinkers – well, by all the revolutionaries, but ESPECIALLY by the Madison-Adams-Washington-Jay-Hamilton nexus.
And yes, the things Burke was dealing with in England (like trying to get England to not STUPIDLY drive America to revolution), was very much about the nuts and bolts of effective representative government.
I have the feeling you and I are going to have fine, friendly, and high-brow debates when I post that article, Dio.
Oh, and by the way, you may notice the “Fred Thompson” tag appears in every single diary I write – no matter the content – because the answer to every issue that matters, is “Fred!!!!!”
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Fredheads united!
Diogenes314 (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 1:21PM EST (link)Mr Locke, and Mr Henry sure could throw some pretty words around. But when it comes to dealing with reality, Burke and Hobbes (and Hamilton, and Adams) had a better grip on reality.
And I think we will agree more than not. Your Fred and mine do.
BTW, The Ghost of Hayek says hi.
Yup [nt]
Bill S (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:04PM EST (link)“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
You know what? Even if the Palestinians were right...
kyle8 (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:10PM EST (link)Even if I believed in their fairy tale myths of what happened in 1948, Even if I agreed that they had many legitimate grievances.
I would still support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs, for the simple reason that one is a democratic nation with the rule of law trying to survive and the other is an backward Iron Age Thug hate culture struggling to commit genocide.
So I really don’t care about the history of the conflict too much.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
5
zuiko (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:07PM EST (link)They lose any moral high ground (not that they ever had it in the first place) when they send kids strapped with explosives into pizza parlors to blow other kids up. The history is irrelevant at this point.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Destroy Hamas
MGamo (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:23PM EST (link)Enough is enough, Hamas keeps firing rockets and now they’ve gotten Israel’s full attention. It’s about time Israel destroys these militants and restores peace and stability to the area. Add me to the list.
“A man who never quits is never defeated.” – Fred D. Thompson
Count me in, EPU. n/t
janis (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:39PM EST (link).
Let's get this to the top of the Rec list
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:41PM EST (link)DKos has had anti-Israel posts at the top of the rec list for a while now.
Let’s show them how strongly we feel about the matter, too.
I add my name to the list of RS Users Supporting Israel.
George, if you can figure out a way to make that happen,
janis (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:17PM EST (link)you’re a miracle worker! The ones that are STILL there have moss growing on them and they’re all wrinkly with age.
LOL -- including my 'Dear 52'
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:22PM EST (link)Although I must say, the top one has a catchy title that I agree with.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I figure that if this post gets...
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:25PM EST (link)…more than 59 recos (the # that the top diary has now) it will surpass it and hit the top.
But I don’t know how that stuff works.
That used to be the way it worked, George. But
janis (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:39PM EST (link)it’s been broken since we before the latest iteration of RedState. So that’s why the same ones are always there. Back when it worked right, you might see a top diary stay there for 24-48 hours, but usually not longer than that. Never did you see the SAME TEN DIARIES for weeks at a time.
We look forward to the day when it gets fixed.
add me to your list
Beaglescout (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 6:56PM EST (link)and if I could I’d let you have my top 10 position for this post. It’s embarrassing to have a 17-day-old-post still in the top 10. I’m sure that EPU wouldn’t mind giving up “Dear 52″‘s position for this either.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
I told you so.
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 10:44PM EST (link)Whoo hoo! This diary made the rec list!
Only one more slot to go
Bill S (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:25PM EST (link)It’s at 2nd place as I type.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Cool!
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:26PM EST (link)Jaded,
does this mean I’m an “almost” miracle worker?
Ooops!
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:27PM EST (link)I meant janis.
I'm with you, EPU (nt)
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 4:42PM EST (link)Me too. Recommended. (nt)
zuiko (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:04PM EST (link)Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
With you EPU and recommend!...nt
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:17PM EST (link)…
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Me too. Recomended. nt
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:19PM EST (link)Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:29PM EST (link)One of the best posts I’ve ever read.
Me too.
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 5:32PM EST (link)Although right now I’m guessing they will fight a simple holding action to get the rocket attacks to stop for a little while. Of course in a couple of months there’s a good probability that Bebe will once again be PM and then all bets are off.
I hear the IDF has upped their training in urban warfare pretty significantly since the debacle in Lebanon, I hope that’s true. Air power is a great thing, and makes for cool videos, but it will take boots on the ground – and a lot of them for a significant time – to put a real dent in this mess.
Please add me EPU.....
Susannah (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 6:25PM EST (link)Great work and recommended!
Sign me up
Finrod (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 6:39PM EST (link)Recommended, as well.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
I'm with you, lets support the Israel & the IDF
1SGinTN (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 7:16PM EST (link)Add my name to the list.
You all might check out :
http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/
Or, on Facebook, join the group : I Support the Israel Defense Forces In Preventing Terror Attacks From Gaza
There is also: 7,000,000 against Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, and other terror orginizations
Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil
Count me in as well
tcgeol (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 8:02PM EST (link)nt
Just your typical bitter gun- and God-clinger
Even the Left admits we’re Right
I stand with Israel
Deleteme (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 8:10PM EST (link)Thanks for posting this list, E Pluribus!
I may become "a tad" snarky and dangerous here, so if you don't get it or like my tone, I make no apologies.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 8:12PM EST (link)Since the US media is covering only that ‘the big bad Jooz’ are mercilessly attacking people of a peace-loving religion and also so that y’all can see what’s actually happening on the ground over there (and here), I wrote something very early this morning, linked right below…..
http://www.redstate.com/pejman_yousefzadeh/2008/12/29/telling/#comment-3545
The gist of that earlier missive is regarding the most recent fad of the Muslim world ….. Stoning Jewish Babies. It’s been growing in popularity for a few weeks now. I know you think I’m kidding. I wish I was.
Just for fun, here’s another addition to the stellar society of the peace-loving religion……….
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230456507048&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
The headline and first paragraph….. “Palestinian stabs 4 in Modi’in Illit”
“A Palestinian laborer stabbed and wounded four Israelis Monday in the West Bank settlement of Modi’in Illit before he was shot and wounded by a volunteer medic, police and rescue officials said.”
Take a guess what the perp was doing there for TEN YEARS…….. he was a contractor doing renovations on homes.
Here’s some more simply isolated incidents where there’s absolutely NO interconnection to the peace-loving religion.
Gaza ‘Collaborators’ Murdered…………..
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129100
Iran Hardliners Register Volunteers to Fight Israel
http://www.asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=1&id=15194
The piece de resistance……… Next time you go to a gas station, a convenience store or anywhere else you may find members of the peace-loving religion, remember this happens as part of their normal routine life……..
U.S. Muslims Importing Child Slaves
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/12/us-muslims-importing-child-slaves.html
The original article here……(Yahoo News)
Child maid trafficking spreads from Africa to US
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/ap_on_re_af/the_slave_next_door
———————–
I can offer up some thoughts, but right under this box where I’m typing, the note says “Be respectful, or be banned. No Profanity.”
The no profanity part is easy. I don’t need to use low words in high places.
The be respectful part, on the other hand…..well, that’s not so easy for me, so ban me if you must.
Regarding stoning Jewish babies or any babies for that matter……. God forbid that happens here even once……. I can assure you that hunting season will immediately be open. Yes, that’s a threat to the peace-loving religion.
On a big-picture front…… I’m not sure what it’s going to take for Israel to realize they are completely on their own and needs to do immediately WHATEVER IT TAKES to stop this peace-loving religion once and for all.
No warnings, no quarter offered or given…….. Let The Mossad loose and do the work they are capable of. IDF: Carpet-bomb every single square foot of Gaza and drop some heavies on Southern Lebanon. Iran and Syria should immediately become glass-topped parking lots.
It’s no longer a matter of talking, offering truces, or anything of the sort. Attack….. The entire purpose of going into battle is to defeat and fully destroy your enemy’s ability to do anything except surrender (that is if you decide to leave any of the enemy behind to do so).
Israel is at the tipping point today, tonight, tomorrow morning. Next week may be too late. There is basically nothing stopping the Muslim world from helping their own and going for their stated goal – eliminating Israel and the Jewish people.
Mark my words….. No matter what happens, this mess will start to spill over to the rest of the world and Jews will be attacked on the streets.
This Jewish kid is not going to submit or give in to anyone or anything involved with the peace-loving religion….. ever.
I'd say that I share your sentiments
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 8:29PM EST (link)Pretty much 100%. I have no interest in soft-pedaling, and I think I’ve shown myself at RS to be downright militant when it comes to national security — which extends to Israel’s own right to go hell-for-leather in the interests of its own security.. Due to the change-over going on in the USA, I, in the shoes of Israel, would not act as if I could rely on the help of the USA in the near future.
My only pressing question, Kenny: put your name on the list, or no? It sounds like I yes, and your position in general on the Israel-Gaza thing is crystal clear. But I don’t want to presume.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Yessum, Good Sir--- Forgot to ask you to add my name to the list.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 8:35PM EST (link)N/T
I think all of us here, particularly those who have put their name on this list,
janis (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 8:45PM EST (link)can say unreservedly that we stand with you, Kenny. I think I can safely speak for all of us here that the words “Never Again!” have profound meaning and truth. The anguish and rage you express…..well, it is bad enough to know that these barbaric actions are going on all over the Middle East, but it is even worse for you, a Jew, to be here and to know that your brethren are being murdered by savages in the name of their perverted notion of God. The fact that so many of our “enlightened” fellow citizens continue to support the Palestinians in this is further proof of the spiritual impoverishment of the Left.
Be glad that our side is the one that’s armed.
Thanks Janis.......
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 8:56PM EST (link)What’s truly worse is that in the USA, 78.8% of “my people” voted for The One and all that comes with him…….. I am absolutely ashamed at that. We are in DEEP trouble as a nation and as a free people.
PS……. I went to the range today after work just to let off some steam. I must have been a tad “up”…… I shredded center on 6 targets and nary a miss.
Yeah, I know. The only conclusion that I could
janis (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 9:48PM EST (link)come to on that is that they must not care about Israel. Either that or they allowed themselves to be snookered by O’s act into thinking that he was a conservative on natsec. It is to laugh–or weep.
Good for you
Wayne (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:57AM EST (link)Kenny, it does a soul good to shred targets once in a while. I recommend this diary too, wholeheartedly.
“Hell, these are Marines. Men like them held Guadalcanal, and took Iwo Jima, Baghdad ain’t s–t”. Maj. Gen. John F. Kelly, USMC, Deputy CG, First MEF
You be snarky Kenny? Oi veh!
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 8:21PM EST (link)And you – of all people – should know that there are exactly 11 “o”s in Jooooooooooos. Otherwise it get’s mistaken in the pronunciation for something like “orange joos”, a breakfast drink instead of the consortium of folks who control world banking (oops), drink the blood of Christian children and keep a billion or so Muslims in poverty and living in dictatorships.
Now that I think of it, I’m guessing the “banking control” thingy is probably off the list these days. None of the Jews I know would have screwed up the banking system like this.
I’m with you on the rest.
count me in epu
rgirlinadcity Monday, December 29th at 8:56PM EST (link)nt
“No man is worth his salt who is not ready at all times to risk his well-being, to risk his body, to risk his life, in a great cause.” -Theodore Roosevelt
EPU, Please add my name to the list.
Wubbies World (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 9:04PM EST (link)It is about time that Israel takes steps to actually defend itself. If rockets were being launched into the US from Mexico across our southern border, we would have done something about it a long time ago.
I think Israel has every right to defend itself from those who seek to exterminate them.
Join The Red State Strike Force
><> If It’s Worth Doing, It’s Worth Doing Right The First Time.
And mine also
woodsman (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 9:21PM EST (link)There is a time for talk and a time for action.
The action required is to quit talking and start doing. Other supporting factions that condone the behavior of Hamas and others would soon get the idea that peeing into the wind is not a good idea if you wish to stay dry.
Add my name
Pi Over Three (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 9:38PM EST (link)Izzy’s neighbors, Hammy and Hezzy, keep launching rockets into Izzy’s yard, killing Izzy’s kids. Hammy and Hezzy do it for months and finally Izzy trys to stop them.
Then the whole neighborhood condems Izzy, so Izzy promises to stop if Hammy and Hezzy stop launching rockets.
The three agree, except the next day, Hammy and Hezzy launch more rockets. Yet still some people think Izzy is to blame.
I drive a car powered by hydrogen – C8H18 to be exact.
Whoop, There It Is....... Video from IDF (a.k.a. "War Porn")
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 10:39PM EST (link)http://www.liveleak.com/e/213_1230583275
I/R video.
Love me some war porn
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 11:48PM EST (link)esp when it shows terrorists and terrorist assets eating it.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
"Hey...who left the window ope......BOOM"
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:40PM EST (link)I love lists….
Make it so , Number One
olsmithie (Diary) Monday, December 29th at 11:58PM EST (link)Add me!
Regards
I am all in
izoneguy (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:43AM EST (link)Keep the pressure on
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Sign Me Up As Well.
Yahuti (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:36AM EST (link). . . and, THIS time I personally urge Israel to employ LIMITED restraint in their continuing defense of its citizens from HAMAS’ depredations. And that is regardless of where that defense might take Israel’s military forces.
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’ for an amount of ‘up to and including my life.’ That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
De Opresso Liber
EPU, please add me as well . . .
mailloux (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 12:55PM EST (link)Great post by the way.
Take Care, mailloux
Count me in
Lammo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 1:30PM EST (link)and I have to say to the IDF it’s about time. This time they must finish the job.
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
Put me on the list, EPU -nt
Joe_Schmo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 2:45PM EST (link)Count me in
JustLeaveMeAlone (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 4:01PM EST (link)God bless Israel. My admiration for the Israeli people is boundless; no one stands up to bullies like they do. They put us all to shame.
To my fellow Americans: it is our duty to support Israel with everything we have, if for no other reason that alone among the nations, Israel stands with us, no matter what. For us to break faith with that would be to doom ourselves.
The USA has no better friend that the state of Israel. May God grant that Israel can always say the same of the USA.
“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Personally I'm ambivalent
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 5:27PM EST (link)Neither is exactly behaving in a manner I care to support. Hamas obviously shouldn’t have been lobbing rockets into Israeli neighborhoods during a cease fire but Israel won no friends with their overly repression embargo. Frankly throwing support behind either is basically endorsing two wrongs as a right.
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Two wrongs?
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 5:30PM EST (link)So in your mind, sending teenagers with explosive vests onto buses to blow up other teenagers is pretty much equivalent to cutting off outside support of a terrorist regime? Fascinating.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Typical response from someone support Israel blindly
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 5:41PM EST (link)You seem to be forgetting that this embargo punishes those who do not support Hamas more so that it punishes Hamas. Do you think those tied to Hamas are being denied food, medicine, or anything else?
Also striking at Hamas has obviously cause collateral damage to civilians. How exactly does that action garner support for Israel? I have no issue with Israel punching back as Hamas but their actions as best are only marginally morally better than their enemy when innocent people get caught in the cross fire.
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Well, Chance
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:15PM EST (link)Since you see Israel and Hamas as moral equals, there is really no point in carrying this debate any further. Wouldn’t you agree?
Um
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:22PM EST (link)When has it ever been about changing anyone’s position on this website.
My position will only change, in regard to Israel or Hamas, when one of them changes their course of action because the action thus far has not changed anything there. Maybe if Israel made a little more effort to allow food to reach Gaza and the West Bank easier I might support their position. Maybe if Hamas stop trying to target civilians I would support their position.
But like I stated earlier neither is behaving in a manner worthy of support.
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Um - I never said that
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:25PM EST (link)What I said was that you apparently regard them as moral equals, so why continue the argument here?
Too bad you weren't around during WWII
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:30PM EST (link)I’m sure you could have found plenty of moral equivalency between the axis and the allies. We did a lot more than embargo “innocent civilillians” in Germany and Japan there.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
'won no friends' -- yeah, no kidding
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 5:59PM EST (link)Well, Chance, you are welcome to your own opinion on this matter. Hamas has operated from civilian-surrounded positions for years. Would you have Israel roll over and die simply because of that?
War is war, and blockades are effective and necessary if you can pull it off. Tough noogies. Any blood spilt is on the hands of Hamas.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I've heard your arguement before
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:14PM EST (link)It isn’t as though I don’t see the point of the Israeli position on this.
However Israel only half honors the cease fires just like Hamas. If they could mange to not be seen as the bully picking on the weakling they might get more support for their position. The best way to do that is stop retaliating every time Hamas violates a cease fire. Yes this would actually require restraint not seen from Israel before. But the previous actions have not done anything to advance their position in the opinions of their neighbors or the world at large.
What is that saying about expecting a different result from the same actions?
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but Israel is not asking anybody's opinion
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:33PM EST (link)And I think they (rightly) are beyond caring what anybody thinks. They are in a fight for their survival, not the debate club and not a beauty contest.
They have an obligation to their own citizens to make survival the primary consideration.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I agree
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:49PM EST (link)Protect your people.
However if your actions have not advance the safety of your people after years of trying it one way it is ludicrous to think continuing the same course is going to change anything for you. And this really my biggest issue with Israel.
Israel needs to either go all in and start expelling Palestinians or understand they need to accept a significant number of civilian deaths until the tide of public opinion changes around the world by restraining even further in their reaction to Hamas aggression. Eventually the world would come to see that Hamas doesn’t want peace and would support whatever course Israel chooses to secure their survival.
I’d go into what Hamas should do but until they actually demonstrate they are going to accept the existence of Israel it is pointless to express what else they need to do.
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Well, I agree with that
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:03PM EST (link)Signs point toward Israel doing something different than what they have. I am not in favor of accepting a cease fire. I think they should retake the Gaza strip and expel everybody still alive when they are done taking it.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Thank you
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:07PM EST (link)I appreciate the understanding of my position.
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you have so much here;
gekster (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:15PM EST (link)Just to start with,
The Palastinians said that it would not attack Isreal if Isreal left the Gaza strip to the Palastinians.
The deal was, you leave, we wont attack.
As soon as Isreal left, the inhabitants destroyed the facilities left by Isreal, and immediatly started lobbig bombs over the fence.
Limited Isreal reaction, including the blockade.
Are you with me?
Hamas then killed all the Palastinian Authority, and took control.
Hamas started throwing more bombs.
Now keep following here.
Hamas got a truce with Isreal, If no more than under four or five rockets a week, we wont bomb you into oblivian.
Things went fine for awhile, at least in mid-east terms.
Obama gets elected, and rockets start more frequently.
Two week before truce ends, Isreal finds tunnel to try to kidnap
soldiers like the one used in Lebanon in 06.
In destroying tunnel, couple Hamas die.
Hamas starts sending more and more rockets.
Some ask for Hamas to stop.
from 12/24/2008
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=29410&Cr=gaza&Cr1=ban
How long do you keep getting bit on the leg by a toy poodle before you stick a pole in its butte and use it for a mop?
And if you put the armaments by civilians, then fire them at somebody, then when somebody fires back, civilians get hurt.
Hamas stands behind women and children.
Isreal forces stands in front of them.
I give you your moral equivalent.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
I know the history
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:22PM EST (link)I have plenty of Muslim friends I play devils advocate with. If you asked any of them they would probably swear I’m a supporter of Israel even though I always express I’m no fan of either.
Frankly both side annoy me equally. Each side has valid claim on perfectly acceptable positions. Both have valid claims on why the other guy is evil.
It isn’t my fight …thankfully.
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I didn't see it but count me in too.
gekster (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:52PM EST (link)Mr.Chance;.
An old but true story.
When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, for I am not a Jew.
When they came for the Gypsies, I said nothing, for I am not a Gypsie.
When they came for the Poles, I said nothing, for I am not a Pole.
And when they came for me, I could do nothing, for I found I was alone
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
You don't know me
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:01PM EST (link)But I assure you I don’t sit by sit by while others are being physically victimized in my vision or earshot.
As for that mess they really have only each other to blame for it.
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I'll get over it. Just hope you don't find yourself alone someday
gekster (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:08PM EST (link)tn
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
I'm a Texan mate
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:12PM EST (link)I’ll never be alone.
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Last time I was called Mate was by an Australian. Just how big is Texas?
gekster (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:23PM EST (link)LOL
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
My Seafight personality slipped out there a bit
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:36PM EST (link)I’m flipping back to here between sea battles in the game. Darn game is seeping into my vocabulary.
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Personally, I'd be ok if they nuked them to oblivion.
NightTwister (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:39PM EST (link)It’s probably overkill for such a small place though, and you can’t always trust the prevailing winds.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
Let's look at this more closely
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:18PM EST (link)“Yes this would actually require restraint not seen from Israel before. ”
Let’s say terrorists in Mexico were lobbing rockets into the US, blowing up pizza joints and buses, and tunneling under the border so they could kill and kidnap Americans. Do you think for a minute the American people would stand for anything less than a 100 mile wasteland as a buffer zone between Mexico and the US, assuming anyone was left alive to occupy the other side?
And you accuse Israel of not showing restraint?
Meant as reply to Chance's comment above n/t
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:18PM EST (link)n/t
As I stated earlier
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:30PM EST (link)I’m not supportive of either. Neither is behaving honorably. Both sides have valid arguments about why the other sucks. Both have valid positions about why they are right.
Hamas absolutely should stop targeting civilians. Israel should absolutely make certain that people in the embargoed zones get food and medicine with expediency.
What is disconcerting to me is that everyone supporting Israel seems to forget Israel is not always honorable is this dispute.
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Answer the question, pal
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 6:56PM EST (link)Instead of regurgitating the same crap over and over.
That is, if you can.
I've answered it
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:02PM EST (link)Just in a different area. Israel needs to take a different course of action. Period. The one they have been following this past decade has not secured their future. Time to change course.
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Let's go over this just one more time
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:06PM EST (link)Read real slow – here it is:
Let’s say terrorists in Mexico were lobbing rockets into the US, blowing up pizza joints and buses, and tunneling under the border so they could kill and kidnap Americans. Do you think for a minute the American people would stand for anything less than a 100 mile wasteland as a buffer zone between Mexico and the US, assuming anyone was left alive to occupy the other side? And if the answer is no, you still argue that Israel is not showing restraint?
Got it? If not, I have a Christmas tree I am going to have a more meaningful interchange with.
Chance, one simple question.... and we all would like a straight-forward answer from you.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:09PM EST (link)What would you have Israel change their course to ?
Cheers !
quoted from above
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:23PM EST (link)Israel needs to either go all in and start expelling Palestinians or understand they need to accept a significant number of civilian deaths until the tide of public opinion changes around the world by restraining even further in their reaction to Hamas aggression. Eventually the world would come to see that Hamas doesn’t want peace and would support whatever course Israel chooses to secure their survival.
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Response to your proposed solution.......
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:49PM EST (link)In order, here’s my opinion…..
Expelling Palestinians ? That I’d like to see – can you say full-scale riot ?…… The only way “expelling Palestinians would happen is if the IDF would run them one at a time through a 108mm bore pointed away from the coastline.
Accept a significant number of civilian deaths………… They don’t care…. Their religion of peace WELCOMES death and destruction as part of every day ritual.
The tide of world public opinion is…………… completely against Israel AND America to the point of wanting Israel defeated, or preferably eliminated, including a big percentage of people and our way of life here in the USA.
By restraining even further in their reaction to Hamas aggression……….. Please correct me if I’m wrong…… Are you suggesting that Israel should show even more restraint while their cities and people are targeted by the minute ?
Eventually the world would come to see that Hamas doesn’t want peace……………… The world knows that already and a huge percentage supports Hamas.
And would support whatever course Israel chooses to secure their survival……………… I’ll make a suggestion to you…… Please take a look at the following website….. http://www.EyeOnTheUN.org and peruse the multitude of countries and their official positions on Israel. There’s a conference called Durban II. If you don’t know what that is, I respectfully suggest you read the documents closely, because this lovely get together will affect the USA as much as Israel.
Peace.
Out.
Fo-Schizzle.
That's not what he is talking about Kenny
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:20PM EST (link)“Accept a significant number of civilian deaths………… They don’t care…. Their religion of peace WELCOMES death and destruction as part of every day ritual.”
Incredibly, he means that ISRAEL should accept the deaths of more of THEIR civilians and not respond in order to get the world to like them and pave the way for a “long term solution”.
Chance’s line of thinking has become beneath comment now, at least as far as I am concerned.
Thank you Jack, I read that passage completely wrong.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:41PM EST (link)I’ll not ask for more clarification from Mr. Haywood.
Cheers !
This is nonsense
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:34PM EST (link)You are all concerned about people in gaza being able to get their microwave pizza at the grocery store, and if they aren’t able to that somehow makes Israel as bad as a terrorist group, but you are all for taking over Gaza and forcing everyone into camps (nobody else wants the Palastinians, so how else are they going to “expel” everyone?) Give me a break.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Oh, I get it
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:43PM EST (link)You are a Ronulan. I guess this garbage makes as much sense as typical Ronulan spew.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
I'm not sure what others are concerned with
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:52PM EST (link)but I don’t care who gets pizza.
I don’t see Israel as a terrorist group. Or as bad. As stupid certainly. It has nothing to do with the use of violence to resolve the issue. My displeasure with them is taking the same course of action over and over the last decade and expecting a different result. I just don’t think I should support such ignorance.
I don’t see Hamas as a legitimate governing body. I don’t see them as good. It has everything do with the violence they use to resolve the issue. My displeasure with them is take the same course of action over and over the last decade and expecting a different result.
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Maybe you can let this personality use the keyboard
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:58PM EST (link)Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
"Eventually the world would come to see that Hamas doesn’t want peace "
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 6:32PM EST (link)I’m not sure what reality you live in, but the rest of us have known this for quite some time.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
You seem to be missing the point.
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:17PM EST (link)Israel initially did what you think America would do. World opinion turned on them quickly over it. Ever since then they’ve given measured responses to any threat. For most of this last decade it has been the same thing over and over. There is some lame attempt at a cease fire. The Palestinians don’t fully embrace it. The Israelis don’t either. Eventually the Israelis given a very measure response to what the perceived Palestinian aggression without ever actually solving the problem.
I’m sick of watching the back and forth.
I’m no fan of Hamas because they target civilians. I’m no fan of Israel because their lame attempts to stifle Hamas, or whoever, is impacting innocent people needlessly.
If you don’t like my position that is fine. However I’m not going to support either until one of them changes their course of action.
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I read
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:18PM EST (link)like a drunk in that response don’t I? I apologize for all the typos.
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Actually, you have MADE my point
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:24PM EST (link)“Ever since then they’ve given measured responses to any threat. For most of this last decade it has been the same thing over and over. ”
Would “measured responses” be the same thing as “restraint”?
And I believe you have gotten your wish as far as a different response from Israel goes. They know full well with the election of Barack Obama, they are now alone. Hamas, then Hezbollah, then Iran, and I cannot wait. It has been long overdue.
Long overdue indeed
Bill S (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:28PM EST (link)and I would not be surprised to see other actions by Israel in the next 2-3 weeks, before the royal coronation.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Restraint is subjective.
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:39PM EST (link)Just as measured response is depending on your point of view. I believe Israel could have always restrained from reacting at all to these rocket launches. I, logically, understand why they do not. However if the end goal is to secure the the safety of the country then it might have been better to accept the damage that came from them short term to get the support you need for the long term solution.
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I wish this line of thinking were parody
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:16PM EST (link)But apparently it is not.
Do you dispute that the past reactions
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:21PM EST (link)Have not solved the problem?
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Well, it depends
Jack_Savage (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:23PM EST (link)On what you believe “the problem” to be.
Holy cow, this has to be one of the most vacuous comments I've ever read on Redstate
Bill S (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:57PM EST (link)So do you think we should have just sucked it up and accepted the thousands of deaths from the Al Qaeda attacks on the US so the world would like us? How many civilian deaths in Israel do you think would be sufficient to “get support”?
Jack is right. You are not worth responding to. Un-freaking-believable.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
I'm thinking you may need to learn what vacuous means
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:08PM EST (link)Or re-read each reply. Comparing two al-Qaeda attacks on one country and the innumerable attacks Israel has been subjected to is beyond ignorant when discussing the strategy Israel opted for recently.
Do you people even grasp how inept the rocket launches are from Hamas? Since 2000 those launches have killed 14 people. In just a few days of responding to those rocket launches Israel has killed hundreds.
As I have repeatedly stated over and over I am no fan of either Hamas or Israel. Both need to change course of action for the matter to be resolved. I’m not going to express support for either until they do.
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Oh, I'm well aware of the meaning
Bill S (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:11PM EST (link)I meant it as an insult. Look it up in the dictionary.
And in case you don’t have one, a synonym would be “mindless”. Which describes your positions perfectly.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
I've been very consistent in my response to this subject
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:21PM EST (link)I think both side are a waste of support. I don’t like the course of action Israel has taken the last decade. I don’t like the course of action Hamas taken. If neither is willing to change course to resolve the matter I see no reason to support them.
What is so hard to understand about my logic in where my stance on the matter comes from?
I think your issue with it that I don’t support Israel.
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From the Random House Unabridged...
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:13PM EST (link)1. without contents; empty: the vacuous air.
2. lacking in ideas or intelligence: a vacuous mind.
3. expressing or characterized by a lack of ideas or intelligence; inane; stupid: a vacuous book.
While awaiting your reply to my request just below, I would have to say that your responses up to this point fit the bill pretty well.
OK Chance I'll bite.
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:01PM EST (link)You keep talking about a “long term solution”. Just exactly what do you think that might look like? Keep in mind that both Hamas and Hezbollah are publicly committed to the total destruction of Israel, as is their benefactor/funder Iran.
I’m interested in your view of a “solution” that would be acceptable to all parties – Israel, H&H and Iran and just how you would get there.
If I had an asnwer to that question
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:17PM EST (link)I’d be the best leader in the world wouldn’t I?
Seriously I have no idea what the end result is going to look like. It might be Israel making an effort to kick all the Arabs out of the area and having to fight enough war to finally decide it’s fate.
It could be the people of Palestine finally getting sick of the course their leaders have taken and finally accept they can live side by side with the Jews.
Or maybe all the Israelis will move to Anarctica so that they are threaten by no one.
My best guess is they will keep punching each other in the face and claiming foul while we are all subjected to their stupidity for the rest of our lives.
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Chance, thank you for your response.
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:52PM EST (link)You can now be written off as a prattling fool.
Bottom line kid, you’re an ignorant troll. Go waste somebody else’s time because you have absolutely nothing to contribute on this subject.
empty title
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:03PM EST (link)If you asked me what a solution would look like then I answer the question.
“having to fight enough war to finally decide it’s fate.”
or
“Palestine finally getting sick of the course their leaders have taken and finally accept”
or
“Israelis will move to Anarctica”
all would be solutions to the problem at hand in the conflict. And the last paragraph is about as spot on of what our future holds as any you will read on here. Why? Because past actions are best indicator of future actions.
Just because I don’t care about fate of either side in the dispute in no way means I’m ignorant. Some times someone just has to play devil’s advocate to keep the conversation from become stale.
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Hi friend...I'm the nightshift..
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:08PM EST (link)...in no way means I’m ignorant.
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:10PM EST (link)That, kid, is exactly what it means especially given the players and the stakes here. It also underlines the fact – FACT – that you are not only vacuous but a fool as well.
You’ve brought absolutely nothing but wasted bandwidth to the discussion. Go play a video game because you’re certainly no damn good at commentary.
Chance - are you Obama? or McCain?
Elizabeth Christian (Diary) Saturday, January 3rd at 3:04AM EST (link)“As I have repeatedly stated over and over I am no fan of either Hamas or Israel. Both need to change course of action for the matter to be resolved. I’m not going to express support for either until they do.”
***That is like Obama voting present a gazillion times.
I’m not trying to be mean and you have the right to be neutral and “honorable” as you say – oh maybe you are John McCain? No I think McCain would even go after Hamas (unless the liberals and NY Times told him not to).
But seriously you said:
“Palestine finally getting sick of the course their leaders have taken and finally accept”
***This is not just something Hamas and all their terrorist friends woke up one day and thought – hmmm that would be fun. This goes back thousands of years – this is their religion – and I do not agree with them in their quest (BUT THEY BELIEVE THIS) – this is a true die hard belief deep in their souls – this is not something they will get bored with – they are persistent cowards who hide behind women and children (and kill them too – in Gaza) and they launch rockets at random targets into Israel (they are not seeking targeted attacks of the military or government – they seek terror – they seek innocent civilians).
and you went on to say “or”
“Israelis will move to Anarctica”
*** You may not be a Christian or Jewish – but the Bible clearly states that God promised this land (Israel) to His people – the Jews. They too believe this deep in their souls (as I do). I have faith in the Bible and God’s word and so do the Jewish people in Israel. Just like their opposition – they believe this in their souls and they will not give up either. Basically Israel is a peace loving nation who does not seek war but MUST protect Itself. IDF seeks out targeted military/Hamas targets in Gaza (they are NOT aiming at civilians) however, Hamas has the opposite approach they aim their rockets up in the air at Israel and have not clue where the rocket will land, Hamas hopes that it will find an innocent civilian, a Temple, women and children, schools – that is their goal. Israel’s goal is to take out the ability for Hamas to launch rockets randomly and terrorize the Israeli people.
You can agree to disagree – but this has been explained to you in many ways (which have all been great explanations) – either you get it or you don’t get it, you can agree or disagree. Here are the facts one more time – now you can decide. You do realize Iran is backing Hamas right? Some of the rockets are from China and Russia as well. Remember – birds of a feather flock together – and if you lay down with dogs your gonna get fleas – hmmm Iran, China, and Russia – Hamas in itself – definitely bad characters.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
~Benjamin Franklin
Israel's letter to The UN regarding excercise of the right to Self Defense.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:35PM EST (link)Here ya go……. From EyeOnTheUN.org……..
Dated 27 December 2008.
This is a direct document file…….
http://www.eyeontheun.org/assets/attachments/documents/7329_Israel_letter_12-27-08.doc
Link to the page if you prefer……..
http://www.eyeontheun.org/developments-item.asp?d=7329&id=10268
First paragraph (minus the intro)………
“…………after a long period of utmost restraint, the Government of Israel has decided to exercise, as of this morning, its right to self-defence. Israel is taking the necessary military action in order to protect its citizens from the ongoing terrorist attacks originating from the Gaza Strip and carried out by Hamas and other terrorist organizations.”
Personally, I wouldn’t have sent The UN anything except a pic of Calvin taking a leak on a map of Gaza.
Cheers !
I so miss Calvin
Chance Haywood (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 7:40PM EST (link)and Hobbes.
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Ninety Minutes Ago...... IDF Hits The Gaza Tunnel Network.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:01PM EST (link)What tunnel network you ask?
The tunnel network for smuggling that’s been in place for years, except that the media outside of Israel would never report about it – even when the IDF would target the locale of such a peace-loving religion (snark, snark, snark).
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051216.html
The Israel Air Force on Tuesday evening unleashed a massive strike on a network of Hamas-dug tunnels in the southern Gaza Strip near the Philadephi Route, according to Palestinian sources.
IAF planes attacked dozens of the tunnels, which Hamas had used to smuggle weapons and militants between Egypt and the Gaza Strip, the army said in a statement.
————
Git-R-Done !!!!!
Me me me me!
Erick Brockway (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 8:56PM EST (link)Anytime I can support not only a smackdown of terrorist thuggery, I’m in!
Add to THAT, to support Israel, without a doubt I’m in.
Note to lefties;
“Don’t be afraid to see what you see.” -Ronald Reagan
Activists taking Action
Join the RedState Strike Force
Add Me Please!
RottDawg (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:05PM EST (link)Thanks! Lets get this over with once and for all… The fact of the matter is that we should be with them, This is just another piece of the WOT…
Man is not free unless government is limited.
Ronald Reagan
Thanks for posting it on Twitter
DaMav Tuesday, December 30th at 9:18PM EST (link)I’d have missed it otherwise.
I figured, since you Reco'd early
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:08PM EST (link)But did not want to presume. Welcome to the party! Beer’s in the fridge (and sodas, and water), chips, dips, in the usual places. Hot tub is out back, and the TX GOP Babe committee is all there.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I was the first Rec
RottDawg (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:41PM EST (link)I know I was! I guess I should have read more carefully, now I’m at the bottom instead of where I SHOULD be!
You sure find that rec list often.
Man is not free unless government is limited.
Ronald Reagan
awesome...I've been coming in late..
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:45PM EST (link)and it puts me …like …10th or somethin’..lol
Dude - I'll bump you.
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:12AM EST (link)But I am nearly positive NT was first. But you were right there.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Count me in!
DaMav Tuesday, December 30th at 9:17PM EST (link)Yes indeed.
And fyi this was posted and linked on twitter by RottDawg!
Good job!
It doesn't matter
JakePrime (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 9:34PM EST (link)The violence will escalate for a little while with more rocket launches and perhaps suicide bombings, followed by intense and frantic negotiations, followed by a temporary ceasefire, followed by more intermittent rocket launches, followed by another Israeli offensive, etc. The cycle doesn’t change no matter who’s in charge of the Palestinians or Israelis. Everything they do just provokes the other side to keep up their end of the war.
Add me to the list EPU
George Neitz (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:03PM EST (link)I stand 100% behind Israel
“Socialism only works
in two places:
Heaven where they don’t
need it and hell where they already have it.”
-Ronald Reagan
I'm of the opinion that the conflict will end either with...
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:49PM EST (link)Unconditional Surrender or Genocide.
The former will probably have to come close to the latter to be achievable.
I can totally see how kicking the can down the road once more time is preferable to finally having an end to the conflict.
That said, I would infinitely prefer the society with a free press (including pornography!), civil unions for gays, and medical marijuana to walk away from the final conflict than the Palestinians.
But, if given a choice between ending the conflict and kicking the can down the road, I’d probably kick the can down the road.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
dude ....you are trippin!...wassup?
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:51PM EST (link)np
Um, what?
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 10:55PM EST (link)I haven’t been “down” for a long time.
I have no idea what you are asking.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
I retract the 'question'...
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:01PM EST (link)Israel needs to FINISH this!……right now…..
ahhh bird...
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:01PM EST (link)That said, I would infinitely prefer the society with a free press (including pornography!), civil unions for gays, and medical marijuana to walk away from the final conflict than the Palestinians.
Look, I’m old. Stuff gets by me. But this makes no sense. Be nice to the old fart and ‘splane it. Please?
Sure.
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:08PM EST (link)Israel has a free press (including pornography!). Gaza and the West Bank don’t.
Israel recognizes civil unions for gays. Gaza and the West Bank don’t.
Israel allows medical marijuana. Gaza and the West Bank don’t.
Go Israel!
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Is Gaza a country?.....who knew?
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:11PM EST (link)LOL
Did I say it was?
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:14PM EST (link)Let me amend my statement and change “country” to “culture”.
Israel has a culture that has X, Y, and Z. Gaza and the West Bank do not.
We good?
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Bird?...I hope this is resolved....which means somebody has to win
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:16PM EST (link)Israel wins…
Thanks bird. nt
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:27PM EST (link)the quickest way to stop fighting is to surrender
Beaglescout (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 4:04PM EST (link)Is that what you want Israel to do? Because that’s the only way to stop fighting against an enemy that will fight until its cannon fodder are all dead. Make no mistake, that is what Hamas thinks of its soldiers, its civilians, its women and children and even its pets: Cannon fodder; grist for the mill; sacrifice for the furnace of Moloch.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
Well I guess that's one reason to support Israel
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:33PM EST (link)Wouldn’t exactly be the same as my list, though.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
He's just trolling (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:13PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
I wasn't really.
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:22PM EST (link)I make a huge distinction between the two cultures.
One is a shining gem containing many of the best achievements of Western Civilization.
The other culture is a backwards sewer, stuck in the dark ages.
I prefer, infinitely, Western Civilization.
However, the conflict between Israel and Palestine (and, perhaps, the rest of the Middle East) is one that I don’t see ending without millions and millions dead at a minimum.
I’m talking “uncondititional surrender” levels of dead.
This strikes me as something awful. Awful awful. I think kicking the can down the road is a hair more preferable to ending the conflict… even if I can be assured of “my” side winning the conflict, I’m still a little squeamish and wondering if maybe there aren’t some Cultural Weapons of Mass Destruction we can drop over in the Middle East first.
Like we did with Russia.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Whatever, troll. (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:24PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Bird...in most situations i would agree with you on this...
Attack Mode (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:27PM EST (link)here…well not so much.
The reason why is that some cultures only respect the sword, and they rule by it. Exporting democracy to the Palestinians via cultural methods is near impossible because their culture is ruled by the sword. Dissent is quickly cured by the blade.
In theory I agree with you…but in practice I think this is a special case.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Fair enough.
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:29PM EST (link)I felt I was copping out by not throwing in my two cents on this topic.
There they are.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
At least you recognize the bad actors from the good...
Attack Mode (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:32PM EST (link)Can’t say the same for Chance Haywood….you know libertarians like that give you a bad name.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Enlightenment values are worth fighting for.
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:58PM EST (link)They’re worth keeping.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
This is great.
Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:31PM EST (link)So, the moral legitimacy of a society is to be judged in a significant part by the extent to which they tolerate pot and sodomy. Yay libertarians.
————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.
Leon...come on that was petty...
Attack Mode (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:35PM EST (link)Although Bird picked libertarian issues to convey it…the fact remains that Israel is a free society and Hamas controlled Gaza is a oppressed society. You should at least give Bird credit for recognizing the bad actors from the good actors.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I read what he wrote
Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:38PM EST (link)Look at this comment. I restated his position exactly. If it came off sounding petty, that’s probably an accurate reflection of the depth of his value system.
————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.
Good point, George.
Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:36PM EST (link)I forgot porn. My bad.
————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.
Among other things, absolutely.
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:37PM EST (link)The moral legitimacy of a society is to be judged in a significant part by the extent to which they recognize that there are certain truths that are self-evident… you know, such as “all men are created equal” and “they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights” and even “that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” I’d go on to say that the society would have to recognize that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, (that’s *HUGE* for me! Consent of the governed.) and that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Know what I mean?
I’d go on to say that the culture should reach the conclusion that prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.
I’d go on, but…
You know. I’d really start getting in “libertine” territory when I started talking about what I thought that individual moral agents should be able to do without being meddled with by the government.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Care to put those words in historical and moral context?
Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:42PM EST (link)Or are you just going to put this out there as your serious position that the Founders meant to enshrine government sanction of sodomy in the Declaration of Independence?
————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.
5 (nt)
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:44PM EST (link)Government sanction of sodomy?
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:47PM EST (link)As opposed to the realization that there are some things that just aren’t the business of the government?
I wonder if the Declaration of Independence would get off the ground today.
I wonder if there is a single Amendment in the Bill of Rights that would get passed today.
Ah, well.
It was a good run, I guess.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
When the government recognizes marriage so they can hand out goodies
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:50PM EST (link)I think we have already gone beyond that not being the business of the government.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Don't get me started on government recognition of marriage.
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:56PM EST (link)I have to go to bed soon.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
zuiko....bad logic
Attack Mode (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:56PM EST (link)if i were to follow your same logic then I would have to stop fighting for a free market. We have long since passed the Gov’t not being allowed to pick winners and losers, so we might as well embrace Keynesianism and outright socialism .
Heck maybe we should just give up on limited government as well, embrace the totalitarian state.
Seriously.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
The bad logic here
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:00AM EST (link)Is that we have to change the definition of marriage just because a minority want us to, so they can collect the same goodies from the government that those who are traditionally married get. But of course we aren’t expected to expand the definition of marriage to cover just anything people might want to do… only SSM. And somehow that is “liberty” at work. Yea, ok, if you say so.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Zuiko.....I didn't say so...so step back from the cliff...
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:07AM EST (link)What I was saying is that accepting the premise that marriage is within the purview of the Federal government and therefore all issues regarding marriage, traditional or otherwise, are also within the purview of the Federal government, is bad logic.
I didn’t even address SSM, which I don’t support, I only addressed your logic for why it is an issue within the purview of the Federal government.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I'm saying there is nothing libertarian about SSM
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:13AM EST (link)And that is all I’m saying. Expanding a government benefits program to another chosen group is not libertarian. It has nothing to do with liberty.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
That's cool Zuiko...
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:15AM EST (link)If you really just want to avoid an actual response to what I wrote I can deal with that.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Feel free to ignore what I actually say
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:19AM EST (link)Nowhere do I say in my ideal world the government would control and recognize marriage or that the government had a duty to pick and choose what kind of relationships it recognizes. I could certainly support taking government out of the picture entirely.
Extending government recognition to another chosen group (while at the same time denying it to others)? Not so much. That *is* government approval. There is a reason you are extending it to one chosen group and not just opening it up.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Zuiko...you seem to have the impression that I am arguing about marriage...
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:24AM EST (link)I am not. I am arguing about your logic.
The logic quoted is flawed. If I were to follow this logic than I would have to accept socialism in America.
Marriage, traditional or otherwise, should not be in the purview of the Federal Government. Period.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
You are misunderstanding me
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:27AM EST (link)I am not saying it should be the government’s business… that is just the real life current state of affairs. I’m just saying bolting on civil unions or SSM onto that framework has nothing at all to do with liberty. Anyway this is off topic and we should kill this threadjack.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Agreed...
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:32AM EST (link)This is a threadjack so I am done.
Let me know when Socialism is just the real life current state of affairs, so I can stop waisting time defending capitalism.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Marriage is a government benefits program?
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:17AM EST (link)May I suggest that if you see marriage as a government benefits program that you’re doing it wrong?
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
OK guys......
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:21AM EST (link)bird, you are a WHOLE LOTTA fun when you are on your game.
But I speak to all of you now . It’s gone from mildly OT to thread-jacking, to BF-Egypt.
Can we take this to the open thread or outside the bar, or something? I am having to sort through a whole bunch of this, which all of you have hashed out before, to find out who is endorsing the Israel action and who is not.
Please?
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Sorry, dude.
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:23AM EST (link)I was even complaining about this going on in my diary.
I’ll go to bed. That will put a lid on it on my part.
Again, sorry.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Hey, we're always cool
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:26AM EST (link)I merely picked your comment because it was the most recent (at the time I started mine).
I’m,with $pecial – cage match in Deep Ellum, zuiko vs bird!
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
LOL
speciallist (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:29AM EST (link)lol….sorry…I just got back from NO interwebs……and …there is still half a box left….
Why does it matter whether government recognizes it?
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:23AM EST (link)Because of all the government benefits that go along with it. That is what this is all about. Get a discount on your taxes (and outright exemption from some of them), get more in SS benefits, etc. Good stuff if you can get it. Anyone can get married in a private ceremony. Anyone can buy a house with another person and use legal agreements to allow the other person to manage their affairs. It’s all about the government benefits (and the implied approval that goes along with the extension of those benefits).
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
I'd probably go down a first amendment road, here.
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:08AM EST (link)And point out that marriage, as a religious sacrament, is something that gays have a right to.
Now if you want to say that they don’t have a right to *CHRISTIAN* marriage, I wouldn’t disagree with you. But I’d say that they have the right to go to the Unitarian Church, have the ceremony, and call themselves married.
I don’t know why you think that they don’t have that right.
On the other hand, if all marriage is is a handful of goodies given by the government…
Well. I’d just point out that it wasn’t always such. I’d go on to point out that divorce rates were lower when marriage was generally considered more than a handful of goodies. (Hurray! We get taxed at X% rate instead of X.5%!!! Let’s have another kid and keep even more money!!!)
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
As a religious sacrament, they've always had that right
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:15AM EST (link)We don’t need judge-made law or any other kind to allow someone to participate in a religious ceremony. That is just a straw man. It is not what the SSM debate is about.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
I'm going back through my brain...
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:18AM EST (link)And I’m trying to find an extended SSM argument where someone didn’t say something to the effect of “they can have civil unions, they just shouldn’t be able to call it Marriage!” and I’m not finding one.
Surely an oversight on my part.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Bird V. Zuiko....pay per view...Lib Cage fight..
speciallist (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:24AM EST (link)nevermind…
I did not not just call you guys Libs.....
speciallist (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:25AM EST (link)do over……
Fellas.......?
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:28AM EST (link)nt
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Yeah let's end the threadjack here (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:38AM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
No, that was enshrined in the 16th
Tbone (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:14AM EST (link)Amendment.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
I'm sure you can find better reasons to support Israel
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:32PM EST (link)than porno and drugs.
555
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:35PM EST (link)That’s what I was thinking.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Is "Liberty" sufficient?
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:40PM EST (link)Or is that a bad word now?
It used to be a thrilling word, once.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Liberty=good....porno,drugs=bad.....sorry
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:43PM EST (link)3 kids
Back to Mark Twain...
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:49PM EST (link)Censorship is like telling a man he cannot eat a steak, because a baby cannot chew it.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Is 'apples and Oranges' STRONG enough for this?
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:51PM EST (link)you crack me up…
potatovodski....wodka Rules!
speciallist (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:53PM EST (link)have a couple shots…
or…if you like rum …you could have a ‘Rum Emanuel’…
reply for recipe…
It is, except when it is defined as
Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:47PM EST (link)“Doing whatever the hell one wants to do.”
Liberty can only exist as the province of man who lives in an ordered society. Period.
————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.
It's not "doing whatever".
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:55PM EST (link)It’s realizing that the government oughtn’t have the power to kick down doors and shoot dogs and point guns at people’s heads to prevent them from doing whatever (for definitions of whatever that include the things listed in the post that upset you and not non-consensual stuff).
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
It's great
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:48PM EST (link)It’s just not what I would pull out as the difference between Israel and Hamas. Seems to me the whole Hamas being a terrorist group is a bigger differentiator than their policy positions on medical marijuana.
If Hamas legalized pot and porn and Israel did not would your support flip to Hamas?
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
If Hamas...
birdmojo (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:53PM EST (link)legalized porn and pot, I suspect that there would have been a *LOT* of things that would have had to have happen in the government.
If they came out of a realization that The State did not and should not have the power to encroach on every aspect of a citizen’s life… I would see that as a good thing.
I imagine that such a realization would go arm-in-arm with the realization that, hey, Israel would make a far better trading partner than target.
At that point, I wouldn’t *HAVE* to pick a side to support. They’d both be getting along and engaging in healthy commerce with each other.
I will go on to say that I would see that as a good thing.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Not really
zuiko (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:56PM EST (link)There’s no reason that a terrorist regime couldn’t have legalized pot or porn. Say those things were compatible with Islam. Legalized pot doesn’t do a think to stop you from sending your kids to blow themselves up on a bus or in a pizza parlor.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Really?
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:01AM EST (link)Are there that many terrorist regimes into legalized pot/porn?
I’m not talking about growing it to sell it for cash to subsidize terror, but terrorist regimes who have come out and said “you know what, medical marijuana and pornography are A-okay with us”?
I certainly can’t think of any.
If you can’t give me one, I think I’d go back to the whole “there are a lot of things that go hand-in-hand in the real world” argument.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Putting words in his mouth
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:03AM EST (link)He never said there “were” terrorist regimes into legalizing pot and porn.
He said theoretically, terrorist regimes COULD legalize it.
And I'm saying that, in the real world...
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:10AM EST (link)There are things that go hand-in-hand.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Just because they don't currently exist
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:04AM EST (link)Doesn’t mean it’s not possible for them to exist.
I don’t know of any terrorist groups that believe in Xenu and thetan meters, either. That doesn’t mean they are incompatible, and if the world only converted to Scientology there would be no more war or terrorism.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Keep me posted.
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:11AM EST (link)Let me know when they show up and I’ll re-calibrate my bundled thoughts on liberty, individual moral agents, etc.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Dkos come to mind.
Tbone (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:10AM EST (link)NT
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
lol....
speciallist (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:12AM EST (link)duplicate comment detected….
I think we'd all be thrilled if Hamas was like DKos.
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:13AM EST (link)I say that without sarcasm.
If they were just a bunch of folks sitting down and posting screeds to the internet rather than blowing stuff up, we’d all be better off.
Heck, that may be a solution to the Middle East problem right there. Get Jerome Armstrong a consulting job with Saudi, stat!
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Because they don't have the power to do it
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:25AM EST (link)Believe me, the anti-Prop 8 folks sure have the right instincts. I’d say they have the whole persecution for political beliefs thing figured out. They just don’t have the authority that Hamas does.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
How did I miss this all day?
evanm (Diary) Tuesday, December 30th at 11:12PM EST (link)Rec’od, and tack me on if you’re still doing so.
Sign me up
JPH (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:03AM EST (link)There are two sides to many arguments, but not to this one. Those who condemn Israel are either anti-Semitic or just crazy. Either way, the blood of Jewish children is on their hands.
Disproportionate Response Indeed......... Fantastic Article From Someone Who Gets It.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 1:14AM EST (link)http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jonathan/mark_disproportionate.php3
First and last paragraphs………
JewishWorldReview.com – By Jonathan Mark
3 Teves 5769 / December 30, 2008
“I condemn Israel’s disproportionate attack on Hamas because, so far, it has only lasted four days and I would like to see a proportionate response that terrifies Hamas for seven years, the years that have filled Sderot and neighboring towns with nightmares, death, amputations and trauma coming from rockets and mortars fired from Gaza.”
….snip….
“Let it be said to Israelis and Jews everywhere, in the words of Churchill: “You have enemies? Good. It means you’ve stood up for something.” But remember: A war (and Hamas has repeatedly said this is war) is never won if you are disproportionately kind to someone who wants to destroy you and, failing in that, demands with indignation that you not destroy him.”
I definitely like this guy and just sent a thank-you mail.
Cheers !
Count me in brother...
jdub19 Wednesday, December 31st at 7:19AM EST (link)time for a ruthless pounding
” Got to love the Lord for making things like that.”
Morally Compromised
I support Israel 100%
Bill@cityonahillpolitics (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 9:38AM EST (link)Put me down as someone who supports Israel without question…
Isn’t it interesting that Barack Obama has had a comment on everything from his appointments, to his buff bod, to the stimulus package, to his eating spam, but Israel is attacked by insane terrorists and he remains silent. They better do whatever they are going to do in the next 3 weeks, because after that they are going to find that the White House is no longer quite so supportive.
Bill
Visit my other sites:
www.cityonahillpolitics.blogspot.com
www.govpalin2012.blogspot.com
http://www.examiner.com/x-19697-Camden-County-Conservative-Examiner
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/Bill_C_Hughes
Count me in. nt
streetwise (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 11:19AM EST (link)Absolutely!
Putter (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 11:32AM EST (link)I am also hoping for a Likud victory in the near future.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies…
I love lists....
speciallist (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 11:35AM EST (link)time to bring some DRAMA to the Pali’s…count me in
If you're still adding...
From ME to You (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 11:50AM EST (link)Count “ME” in!!!!
I an highly in favor of massive “urban renewal” in the Gaza strip! In the words of Ty Pennington “time for some demo!!”
From Me to you, MSgt, USAF (Ret.)
Gun control is hitting your target every time!!
EPU
Jack_Savage (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 11:51AM EST (link)Sign me up, pretty please.
You didn't add my name yet, EPU
Raven (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:50PM EST (link)I’m disappointed. You should add every name on the Reco list to your list of supporters for your article.
I’d do it alphabetically…
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
Well......
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 12:53PM EST (link)I thought that would be presumptuous of me to do that – I’m not totally sure it is a 1-to-1 relationship, the Reco-ers and the ‘hey sign me up’ people.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Count Me In, EPU ... n/t
Blue_Collar_Muse (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 1:47PM EST (link)n/t
Blue Collar Muse
Smaller Government! Lower Taxes! Stronger Defense! More Liberty! Complete Transparency!
I support Isreals fight to the bitter end!
Scope (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 1:51PM EST (link)Please don’t allow anyone including the US to ask you to stand down. Get er done once and for all.
Paging EPU
Erick Erickson (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 2:01PM EST (link)Check your email
Who will stand on either hand and keep this bridge with me?Follow @EWErickson
As I noted elsewhere, 5^infinity (nt)
kowalski (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 2:50PM EST (link)Defend Liberty — Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
count me in (nt)
dwarfmama (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 4:49PM EST (link)Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. (Samuel Adams)
...and so it starts in the streets....... Denmark: Jews shot at a mall.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 5:19PM EST (link)http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129152
PA Arab Terrorists Attack Israelis in Denmark, Two Wounded
(IsraelNN.com) Palestinian Authority Arab terrorists attacked a group of young Israelis at a stand in a Danish mall early Wednesday evening.
Local police said the attack took place at approximately 3:20 p.m. at the Rosengirdscentret Center, one of the largest shopping centers in the city of Odense, located about 200 kilometers from Copenhagen.
———————
It’s coming to the rest of the world, especially here to The USA.
First time it happens here: It’s open season, no bag limit.
Unlike Denmark, here the intended victim
Achance (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 5:37PM EST (link)has some likelihood of being armed. Terrorists really don’t like people who can shoot back.
In Vino Veritas
I'm your huckleberry
Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 5:24PM EST (link)nt
Molon Labe!
I support Israel!
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 5:32PM EST (link)Despite the fact that almost 2/3 of American Jews voted Democrats in the last election.
My support is based on the rationale that Israel is the major US ally and nothing more. I don’t care about the nationality of the people inside that country anymore.
Rod, it wasn't almost 2/3..............
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 5:43PM EST (link)… the number ran out to 78% of American Jews who voted for “him” and across the board “D”.
I’m ashamed of my people and we’re going to pay the price for it.
Bro, thanks for the correction and ...
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:17PM EST (link)if the majority of American Jews don’t want to be associated with Israel anymore, so be it. I will call and treat them as ordinary Americans… without any qualifications. I’m sorry for sounding bitter about it.
But I admire those Jews in Israel and Conservative American Jews who are not afraid of their own identity and history as a people.
And I honor you brother,
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:19PM EST (link)Conservative, a Jew and 100% true American.
Right back atcha, Rod.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:25PM EST (link)nt
I'm in. nt
redneck_hippie (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 5:42PM EST (link)Mixed feelings on Israel
Dencal26 Wednesday, December 31st at 6:32PM EST (link)While I respect the Israelis and their right to self defense I am no longer a blind supporter of Israel for the following reasons
1) Watching 75% of Jews vote for Hussein Obama makes me feel like a Putz
2) Pissing off 1.2 Billion Muslims for the sake of 6 Million Jews doesn’t seem like smart foriegn policy,
What's with "blind support for Israel"?
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:41PM EST (link)Seems to be a awfully popular turn of phrase lately. Yea, I don’t really blindly support anybody in anything, not even the United States. I think most people actually make use of their judgment when determining whether to support someone, but maybe it is just me.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Yes, please define "blind supporter of Israel" for us
Bill S (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:44PM EST (link)because, as zuiko mentions, that phrase is thrown around a lot by the left, and the use of the phrase around here raises flags.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
I'm think the phrase is defined on page 12 of the Ronulan handbook (nt)
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:47PM EST (link)Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Tell me you're joking
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:46PM EST (link)Heaven forbid we let Israel defend its innocent civilians, lest we make the Islamofascists angry.
He's probably just messed up in the head (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:48PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Mmm-hmmm
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:59PM EST (link)Let me see if I have a smiley for this:
It's all just a numbers game
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:50PM EST (link)If we were smart we would implement Sharia Law and get those 1.2bln on our side. I don’t see the Vatican sending out altar boys with explosives strapped to their bodies in response, so it is the obvious way to go based on the numbers.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Chance Haywood ! Well I'll be danged.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:55PM EST (link)Welcome back to the thread !
Cheers !
Are Dencal and Chance one and the same?
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:57PM EST (link)Oh, goodie. Nothing like some New Years’ Eve troll-bashing.
I'm joking........ or am I ?
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 7:01PM EST (link)I figured.
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 7:05PM EST (link)I was being mildly sarcastic.
Well, you'd better pick your side
JustLeaveMeAlone (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 7:07PM EST (link)because you do have a dog in this fight.
Those 1.2 billion Muslims are not your friends. Nor will they ever be. And once they’ve finished off Israel, we’re next.
“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Your feeling may be right.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 1:58AM EST (link)But your view is definitely wrong on this.
Our support for Israel should not be based on its ethnic background. We support Israel because it’s a US ally and our bilateral agreement with that country binds us to help and support Israel on the context our own interests.
As for the 78% of the liberal American Jews (as per Kenny’s info), please go… Suck a Lemon (copyright: Martin Knight)!
I support MUCH MORE all out war than this
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 6:42PM EST (link)The Palestinians are a death cult. Not just Hamas. NO. The people that elected Hamas. They need to be taught a lesson on the order of The Confederacy or Japan. Only after utter and devastating defeat will peace be possible. I’m talking making Gaza the stone age.
I hope Israel means it for ONCE!
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Yeah, me too, Mike
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 7:03PM EST (link)I’d like to see them turn Gaza into an asphalt lot, then repopulate it with Israelis. And in the meantime, make some buildings explode in Syria where all this crap is directed.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
amen EPU. Consider that less than 15? years after the Civil War
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 10:14PM EST (link)more Southerners enlisted in America’s next war and always do enlist in higher % nos and Japan has become one of greatest allies. Devastating defeat is sometimes necessary for peace. Most times, ep with stiff necked Gamecocks and Rebels and Death cults like Japan was and palestine is.
great column man
as usual!
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
stop busting on the Confederacy
Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 10:20PM EST (link)Sherman did not do what he did to “punish” the South, he punished the South in order to win. The later punishment came as a result of Lincoln’s assasination. Anyway, I am just saying, we agree with EPU, we don’t need to drag the Confederacy into this.
you must be from “northern” South Carolina :->
Molon Labe!
ok and I agree - and yes, Spartanburg!-nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 10:37PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
cool
Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 10:41PM EST (link)nice town, I have been there a few times
Molon Labe!
If we're trashing the Confederacy, riddle me this, Batman...
Diogenes314 (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 11:06PM EST (link)If Davis, Lee and Benjamin were wrong, how were Adams, Madison and Jefferson right?
Never got a good answer to this. Until you have one, leave our southern friends alone.
Deo Vindice nt
Achance (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:22AM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
Good News: Hamas/Palestinian Authority authorizes CRUCIFIXION of Christian enemies.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 7:29PM EST (link)http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230111707087&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
The ‘realist’ fantasy
By Caroline Glick
Both Iran and its Hamas proxy in Gaza have been busy this Christmas week showing Christendom just what they think of it. But no one seems to have noticed.
On Tuesday, Hamas legislators marked the Christmas season by passing a Shari’a criminal code for the Palestinian Authority. Among other things, it legalizes crucifixion.
—————————
Weeeeeeeeelllllllllllllll, isn’t that special !?!
Bring it on. mo fo’s. Bring it on.
That is very regressive of them
izoneguy (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 7:43PM EST (link)Kenny – I am sure many in the military are counting their blessings this holiday season. Why? Because Obama does not have balls as big as GW Bush. Obama won’t do nuthin’…. He will apease Hamas and the other scum and will let Iran have their way with Iraq once we are gone. The fight will have to be an underground movement that is not run by Obama’s grovelment.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
??????????????
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 7:51PM EST (link)And just exactly what has GWB done to slow down Hamas or Hezbollah? Or Iran for that matter?
In the last eight years he’s done nothing but promote “peace accords” that give the bastards time to rearm and “urge restraint”. Collin Powell was worthless and Condi Rice has been worse from State.
I don’t doubt that Obama will be even worse, but Bush has been no particular friend or supporter of Israel.
He has done more
izoneguy (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 8:05PM EST (link)than Obama ever will. Just imagine another 9-11 with Obama at the helm. Bush has kept America safe and it has been the left that has kept Bush from doing more. Israel will not cower any longer as they realize that Obama won’t lift a finger to help.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Again, izone, I don't question that Obama will be "worse".
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 9:29PM EST (link)But there is exactly zero evidence that “the left” has kept Bush from doing anything. They haven’t been able to put a dent in the Patriot Act, they haven’t been able to bring so much as one soldier home from Iraq, and their impact “The Bush Doctrine” (whatever that happens to be these days) again, is zip.
Bush has pretty much done anything he wanted to, the left whined and he just ignored them. While I strongly disagree that he took the right course in hiding under his desk and not responding to them (and in some cases throwing them in jail), I don’t see any evidence at all that they’ve hindered his ability to conduct foreign policy precisely as he wanted to.
Therein lies the problem. Given the work of State, headed by both Powell and Rice, we have consistently sided with the Arabist factions within State to the exclusion of supporting policies that would improve Israel’s security from her “neighbors”.
We can quibble about the great job GWB has done “keeping us safe” but since we don’t have access to “real” information and we’d just be guessing, I would find that to be an exercise in futility. My opinion is that we’ve not been attacked for two major reasons. First, the Islamists are dumb as a box of rocks. They seem to be holding out for “big” 911 type attacks. I won’t discuss specifics here, but that’s a bad strategy for a whole bunch of reasons. Second, which falls into the box of rocks as well, they seem to have decided to follow the path of the NVA and try to wage war and win in Iraq. That was a real oopsie. Bottom line GWB didn’t have any control over the first, and frankly, got lucky with the second. But as a former boss told me, “Always take credit for good luck because you’re gonna get blamed if it goes sour.”
And again, would I rather have Bush as CinC that BO? Any day, as painful as that is for me to admit. I think Bush has been a monumentally crappy President but I also think he’s better than Obama.
And to finish on my original point, the Bush Administration, and specifically the President, have been no great friends of Israel.
Well there was lots of talk
zuiko (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 10:17PM EST (link)I’m pretty sure Iran/Syria/Hamas/Hezbo are just a few paragraphs away from defeat.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
And here's my 2009 prediction
JustLeaveMeAlone (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 10:34PM EST (link)This will be the year Israel takes out Iran’s nuke capability, something no one else in the world has the balls to do (including us, unfortunately). Obama’s election cinched that.
Thank you in advance, Israel.
“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Agree -nt-
civil truth (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 7:38PM EST (link)The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
I support our Israeli brothers
CodeRedinPA (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 9:20PM EST (link)Israel is a model Democracy. We as U.S. citizens are bound by the pledge of our Forefathers to being The Fountain of Democracy everywhere to support them.
I also support Israel in principle. They have any and all rights to defend themselve from aggression.
I am even ready at this point to hand Israel a pass for civilian casualties. Israel has bent over backwards upon itself to be an active and willing party in the peace process with The Palestinians
The time has come!!!!
The Palestinians MUST denounce and discredit Hamas, Hezbullah, and Fatah…..even if that process must start at the point of a bayonet.
Count me in, EPU nt
itrytobenice (Diary) Wednesday, December 31st at 10:10PM EST (link)Proper grammar saves lives.
Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.
Please sign me up!
peg_c (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 6:42AM EST (link)Sorry, just found this diary.
For that booth character – there is never a time we do not fully support Israel! Not ever. They stare into the teeth of the tiger every moment of every day.
Never give up, never give in.
Government cannot be the solution when government is the problem.
I'm in
ulape Thursday, January 1st at 7:19AM EST (link)Someone goes shooting rockets at your people, you go kick donkey.
Edward “Ulape” King
I'm in!
BlueStateSaint Thursday, January 1st at 7:32AM EST (link)Israel needs to take the [i]last[/i] shot. Over and over.
I posted on another conservative blog that the IAF needs to lease a few B-52s and run an Arc Light on the entire Gaza Strip. But, it was pointed out to me that MOABs or “daisy cutters” would be more cost-effective, with the added benefit of being deliverable by IAF C-130s. The “Hamas Air Force” is pretty weak . . .
I'll probably get banned for this. . .
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 8:18AM EST (link)But, at what point would you end your support for Israel’s actions? If they committed genocide, ordering all Palestinians in Gaza killed, be they civilian or not, would you support them? What if it was softer than that, say indiscriminate bombing Gaza to such an extent that most Palestinians were killed?
I support Israel and its right to exist, but I do wonder if peace can only be found through death.
Not a very constructive question (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 8:25AM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Tip
zuiko (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 8:25AM EST (link)Starting anything off with “I’ll probably get banned for this…” makes you sound like an idiot, no matter what the content of your post happens to be.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
I wouldn't end support for Israel
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 9:06AM EST (link)Because they’re not doing any of that stuff, and I’m confident they won’t.
When their enemy's stated goal is genocide...
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 9:18AM EST (link)of them, don’t you think it’s a stupid question to ask? When did you ask the same question of the Hamas supporters?
Sorry, but I think you have the whole thing backwards.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots
we don't ban for stupid
streiff (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 9:23AM EST (link)though we probably should reconsider that policy in light of this comment.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
Rottimer, if a gang across the street from you was shooting at your house,
janis (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 10:08AM EST (link)had already killed two of your kids, wounded your wife, and was not going to stop, what would you do? Wait until they had killed the rest of your family? The Israelis have honored peace truce after truce while Hamas has not. Hamas declined the latest one as well.
Yeah, in some cases, peace can only be found through death, particularly if the other side signs up for the honor of dying. Israel is just giving them their fondest desire because they WON’T GIVE ISRAEL ANY OTHER CHOICE!
Hey I agree with you.
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 10:32AM EST (link)But then, if I lob a bomb in the house that gang lives in and kill not only them, but their parents that live next door and their children too, am I going to be surprised when one of those gang member’s brother, who always thought his brother was an asshat for being in that gang decides to retaliate, not because I killed his brother, but because I killed his mother as well?
Look, Israel has every right to protect itself. I just hope that they don’t go too far. Because I disagree that overwhelming force always works to instill fear in your opponents, especially opponents who place such value on death. Israel knows this, I believe it’s part of the reason that they do not have the death penalty for terrorists. They do not wish to give them the satisfaction of being martyrs.
Of course they need to retaliate, but I worry that going to far will make it impossible to stop at some point.
I have no such worries. I'm perfectly willing to see the Israelis
janis (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 10:45AM EST (link)do what they need to do for as long as they need to do it. With Iran holding a “sign up for jihad and death” event, which garnered at least 20,000 signatures, Israel has a lot of killing to do before we need to worry about “impossible to stop.” The only reason they need to stop is because the enemy is finally vanquished. It’s up to the enemy to determine what that looks like– 100% dead or some lesser percentage with the rest disarmed and moving out of the kill zone.
Hamas and the Gaza population chose this, Israel didn’t.
Just wow. Perfect timing. Just as I read this thread, Happy Bunny woke up.
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 10:47AM EST (link)Happy freaking New Year. It’s amazing that only 10 hours into the New Year you may well have a lock on the Dumbest Post of 2009. What a way to start the New Year.
Wondered when you would show up. Happy New Year!
janis (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 10:57AM EST (link)We have such a long way to go this year, becker, I wouldn’t want to hand out that honor quite this soon, but it’s a contender.
Happy New Year janis.
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:39AM EST (link)Sorry you missed out on Chance yesterday. It was a fun troll trashing. I thought of you and was going to drop you a note, but I don’t have your email addy.
I read some of Chance's ridiculous comments and was going to join it, but had to go take care of the grandkids for a few hours.
janis (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:47AM EST (link)And I noticed while with them that they generally make lots more sense than people like Chance. As to my email addy, I’m going to hit “contact” and see if whoever’s manning the controls will send it to you, unless you can think of a better way.
Instead of simply calling my post dumb
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 11:00AM EST (link)Why don’t you educate me on why it is so dumb. I have no problem admitting that I’m wrong on an issue, but someone just telling me that I’m dumb and not explaining how so doesn’t really convince me.
The bunny is right
zuiko (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:05AM EST (link)Last I checked Israel has not set up death camps for the Palestinians and have no plans to do so.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
And I never said they did.
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 11:19AM EST (link)The question was would Israel still garner his support IF they killed so many people in the gaza strip it would be equivalent to genocide. Israel has come no where close to committing genocide. But this is not Japan they are dealing with. A couple of instantly destroyed cities does not cause pause and rethinking of their goals. In this case, the dead would be called martyrs and held up as a reason for increased attacks on Israel. So if it came down to it, I hope they don’t go so far that there is no chance for a ceasefire.
I admit, I’m probably being too extreme in my analogy, but there are those here calling for a much wider war from Israel, and in my personal opinion, I don’t think Israel is done yet.
If necessary I have no problem with making a martyr out of
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:31AM EST (link)absolutely every Muslim who is willing to make war on Israel (or the US for that matter).
Given the history of the people that we’re dealing with, I would approve of wholesale targeting of anything even remotely military in nature where ever it is placed. Schools, hospitals, mosques, residential neighborhoods would all be on my acceptable target list if I had even the slightest reason to suspect that they were being used by the “Palestinians” for military/terrorist purposes.
And lets be really clear here. If you are the least bit concerned about “international opinion”, forget it. The Euroweenies wouldn’t support anything Israel did short of a national mass suicide. The countries in the Middle East (maybe with the exception of Egypt) wouldn’t even go that far.
I don't think this is even about Israel
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 11:41AM EST (link)You might call me dumb again, but let me tell you why I hope there is a ceasefire, and I hope this doesn’t become a wider war. I think that if you followed the money and you followed the reasons behind this latest broken truce you would find the hand of Iran.
And I don’t think Iran wants the destruction of Israel, I think Iran wants the hatred of Israel. Oil prices have dropped precipitously. And just like last time that oil prices were at a historic low, for some reason, hamas, or hezbollah, or some other Iranian backed terrorist group decides to flare up conflict with Israel, with the immediate result of increased oil prices, and increased profit for oil producing countries, including Iran. This has happened time and time again and when I have time, I’ll look into graphing oil prices with increased attacks on Israel. I’m pretty sure they’re inversely proportional.
You should have stopped that post after the third word in the title. -nt-
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:47AM EST (link)You're right. You don't think. (nt)
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:51AM EST (link)You have heard Ahmawhackjob call for the end of Israel
janis (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:56AM EST (link)HOW many times over the last few years? And you can still come up with something like this “I think Iran wants the hatred of Israel.” Iran doesn’t care a red rat’s ass how Israel FEELS, they want Israel wiped off the map and the last Jew on earth dead. Did you know that Iran just recently made crucifixion a legitimate form of execution? Who do you think they plan on using that on? And I am pretty sure that crucifying someone is not just a petty form of getting them to hate you.
Your mistake is in projecting rational, Western motives on Iran.
Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:26PM EST (link)It’s a mistake to project your thought, attitudes and values onto an adversary.
Iran is rules by fanatical Islamicists who are committed to the destruction of the West. That means you and me, pal. They are not about accumulating wealth. That is a Western value. They want to restore the caliphate and subjugate us (at a minimum).
Remember that the US is the Great Satan. Israel is the Little Satan. They are hated because they’re doing our handiwork as Iran sees it.
As I said before, it is the mutual values we share with Israel that makes them not only trustworthy but a great friend and ally.
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
Genocide
zuiko (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:10PM EST (link)Has a pretty specific definition. And the definition isn’t “kill lots of the enemy.” Israel wants to be able to exist in peace. They aren’t setting out to wipe out certain ethnic groups from the planet. So your question is idiotic.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
It's simple, really.
NightTwister (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:07AM EST (link)In war, you fight until your opponent no longer has the will to fight anymore. You completely devastate them over and over until they quit doing what they’ve been doing, or until there aren’t any of them left to continue doing it. They’ve already tried the measured response with these folks (several times), and all it does is give them time to regroup so they can do it again.
Really, the ball is in the court of Hamas. They can stop the whole thing by (a) acknowledge Israel’s right to exist, and (b) stop firing rockets into their cities.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
OK, Einstein, I'll give it a shot
Bill S (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:12AM EST (link)The problem with your vapid analogy is that it doesn’t represent the situation – at all. Hamas is intentionally placing its weapons and strongholds in positions alongside civilians, using them as defacto “human shields” to elicit precisely the kind of response that you have given. Fortunately, Israel doesn’t fall for such things. If Hamas is willing to sacrifice their own Palestinian brothers in this fashion, then the blood is on their hands, not Israel’s.
There was an IAF video posted on YouTube that showed the destruction of a Hamas missile launch point, which was “conveniently” positioned smack in the middle of a residential neighborhood.
Hamas is reaping what they’ve sown. And you’ve fallen prey to their strategy. Congratulations on your naivete.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Have you looked at Gaza recently?
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 11:30AM EST (link)Firing rockets on Israel is wrong. I don’t defend it, and those that carry it out should be made so that they can’t even think about doing so again (read that as dead).
However, from a military standpoint, Gaza is no large area with plenty of cover for fire. Take a look at google maps, outside of some farming area, much of it is residential. For their rockets to reach Israel they’re going to be firing from residential areas, regardless of whether they want to or not. I’m sure they do want to garner support by having civilians die. That is definitely part of their strategy. All I’m saying is that regardless how you feel about the situation, they WILL garner support if too many civilians die.
Fine, fire a rocket from a block in a residential area,
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:34AM EST (link)The IDF should make that block look like cinders. The whole bloody block.
As far as killing “Palestinian civilians” is concerned, my only worry would be running out of ordinance before they ran out of civilians.
LOL -- Perfect, Becker
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 10:21PM EST (link)My thought exactly.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
dude...you made me spit my coffee...
speciallist (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:39AM EST (link)“For their rockets to reach Israel they’re going to be firing from residential areas, regardless of whether they want to or not.”
that my friends is LAME….that might be my new sig line…LOL
GOTO Happy Bunny
Bill S (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:54AM EST (link)STOP
END
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Wow... making excuses for Hamas
zuiko (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:12PM EST (link)That’s a whole new level of stupid.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Clearly
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 12:25PM EST (link)“I don’t defend it, and those that carry it out should be made so that they can’t even think about doing so again (read that as dead).”
Clearly I’m making excuses for Hamas.
Yea then in the next paragraph
zuiko (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:31PM EST (link)You went on to offer excuses for them. Happy Bunny doesn’t even have words for how stupid that was.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. – Milton Friedman
Saying that the majority of land in Gaza
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 12:36PM EST (link)is residential is stating a fact, not making excuses.
Ignoring me was contraindicated.
Moe Lane (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:40PM EST (link)Email us in 24 hours with your explanation of why we should turn your account back on. Hint: it should include a repudiation of the notion that Hamas has a right to target Israeli citizens in the first place.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
FAIL on your geography
Bill S (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:47PM EST (link)A quick peek at Google maps satellite view shows an awful lot of bare land outside the city of Gaza. But since you’ve been banned from this thread and can’t respond, I’ll just suggest that next time you choose to come to a discussion like this, you really need to know your opposition better. Others have come before you trying to criticize Israel’s actions and make excuses for Hamas, and they haven’t lasted long.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Happy Bunny says, "Oh YES it is, stupid."
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 10:34PM EST (link)And Happy Bunny is not happy that Moe got to you before HB did. Happy Bunny UnHappy.
Administrative note: UnHappy Bunny will be Happy Bunny again way before you are ever NotStupid™
Actually, Rottimer, you are. Stop doing that.
Moe Lane (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:34PM EST (link)And no, I don’t want to hear your excuse and/or explanation for trying to legitimize Hamas’ attacks in the first place; I merely want you to stop using our bandwidth to do it.
Signify your understanding of this by not posting further in this thread.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Oh, and with respect to the "they WILL garner support if too many civilians die" meme...
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 10:29PM EST (link)if, every time a Hamas leader (or Hezbollah leader) shows his face in public he eats a Hellfire missile support from the Euroweenies – or whoever – won’t do them a hell of a lot of good.
And again, just so we’re clear, if the head of Hamas shows up at the Mosque on Friday afternoon, take down the building and napalm the wreckage. There are NO non-combatants. None.
It's WAR, not a tea party
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:13AM EST (link)I hate to break it to you, but to paraphrase Rush Limbaugh, the IDF breaks things and hurts people, with every right to do so in their self-defense.
For you to even think for a minute that the Israelis might be or are on their way towards commiting genocide is so, so extremely stupid. I’m not even going to bother wasting my time and energy explaining it to you because I know you won’t get it.
Like it or not, Israel is defending itself. And it’s going to keep going until Gaza is a parking lot.
Because it would be a total waste of my time.
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:15AM EST (link)But, since I’m just waiting for my oatmeal to finish cooking here’s the short version.
And for the record, I’m good with turning Gaza into a parking lot. Since the Israelis won’t likely do that, the next best thing is to target the political leaders and every public figure they can find. A rocket lands in Israel from Gaza, take out a government building during working hours. Any mosque that fronts for terrorists, flatten it, and do it on a Friday evening when it’s full. Bottom line raise the ante because there are no “innocents” and no “non-combatants” in Gaza, the West Bank or Lebanon.
5^ (nt)
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:20AM EST (link)By the way, if you want a specific object lesson in
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:24AM EST (link)what I would consider a minimum appropriate response to ONE rocket or ONE suicide bomber, do some research on Dresden.
I (heart) mbecker
Tanggor (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:02PM EST (link)But only in the most manly of ways, of course.
I was thinking of chiming in with Dresden, and pointing out why it was important (Kurt V. opinions aside).
You beat me to it.
I vote parking lot. With some beachfront hotels and other tourist businesses. Gotta remove the vermin first though.
Pack ‘em into cargo planes and buses, and send ‘em to Iran. I hear the Iranians like them sooooo much. I’m sure they’ll make room.
“It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.” – George Washington
Some really wicked film footage is available, if you have seen it..
olsmithie (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:33PM EST (link)Not exactly a limited response, but eminently effective.
Regards
The Palestinians aren't united by a common language, culture or homeland.
Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:27AM EST (link)They are united only in their hatred of Jews. It’s what defines their identity.
If they truly wanted peace, they could coexist with the Israelis and prosper. But they don’t, and they can’t.
Israel is a liberal democracy. Their collective conscience will stop them before they go too far.
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
You're right.
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 11:33AM EST (link)“Israel is a liberal democracy. Their collective conscience will stop them before they go too far.”
You know what? You’re absolutely right. No argument there.
So why are you even asking...
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:52AM EST (link)…what would happen if Israel went too far? If you know they won’t go too far, why bother wondering?
The Palestinians are united by one other commonality.
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:37AM EST (link)They are hated as a people and have been rejected by EVERY Moslem nation in the region. And the US gives them more aid $$ than all of the OPEC nations combined.
55555555555
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 1:03PM EST (link)I second all that and if I had a spare tactical warhead or two laying around, I’d send ‘em armed and safeties off to the following coordinates: 31.24.00 North x 34.19.00 East.
Cheers !
Great ideat - and I am not drastically opposed
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 10:29PM EST (link)to the coordinates N 33.30.00 x E36.17.00, in response to the latest Hamas behavior in Gaza.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
BTW Rottimer, just so we start the New Year
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:45AM EST (link)in the spirit of being clear, precise and concise, the Happy Bunny was absolutely NOT referring to “your post”. He was referring to YOU.
And nothing you’ve posted since then has done anything to cause him to defer his original judgment.
"Do not ask who the happy bunny laughs at. He laughs at you."
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:50AM EST (link)LOLOL!
Glad you could clear that up.
Rottimer Thursday, January 1st at 12:23PM EST (link)If someone doesn’t hold your opinion I’m sure your calling them stupid has worked wonders in getting them to change their minds. Fortunately, I don’t judge my intelligence by your or Happy Bunny’s scale.
Maybe you should. (nt)
Thrhheggeegwc Jjtkylkfofud (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 12:24PM EST (link)Here we go again.
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 4:48PM EST (link)No, there are tons of people who post here who I have great respect for who I disagree mightily with on various issues. They all have the ability to assemble a cogent argument based on the facts at hand. You don’t.
And as for you judging your intelligence, well that pretty well speaks for itself kid.
make it impossible to stop at some point.
olsmithie (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:18AM EST (link)It will stop when the Terrorist stop, and I hope not a minute before. American presidents are famous for allowing the Generals to finish the job. Hence came Korea, Vietnam and the 2nd Iraqi was.
The Terrorist of Hamas and all other Islamic groups in the strip to date have ignored every ceasefire that existed.
When the terrorists get down in the war and this IS war, Rice or Bush leans on the Israelis to stop.
Hamas goes back to stacking Iranian missiles until they attack Israel again.
The Israelis have been longsuffering under attack by the muslim world since day one. Hams word means nothing, They hide behind woman and children, lying to get time to rearm without any intention of honoring a ceasefire.
Ypu must look at things in context, this is not an isolated attack, but part of an ongoing war against Israel.
No disrrespect intended, but generally folks that get the news from CNN and The NYT are the ones who have no concept about the history of the area or the conflict.
It is Hamas that is putting civilians at risk, not Israel.
Gaza was a major mistake, the ocuppants have wandered for years as refuges . Jordan, the Saudis and the other “brother” countries would not accept them, knowing they would always be a thorn in Israels side.
They were not, as mythically pitched, former residents of a Palestinian state.
I hope a snippet of history will help the understanding.
Off to watch bowl game. Go ‘Cocks!
Regards
that should be "'not' allowing the generals to finish"
olsmithie (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:21AM EST (link)nnt
I proudly agree 100%+
SKilroe Thursday, January 1st at 8:54AM EST (link)add me to the list.
Follow The Money..................
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 2:13PM EST (link)http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129171
I’m trying to wrap my head around this, but it looks like two Israeli banks have stopped dealing with Gaza.
The Bank Of Israel (central bank) Governor Stanley Fischer said “oh nay nay” and requested/ordered the government-owned Postal Bank to pick up the work of those two banks in fear that Gaza will drop using the Israeli Scheckel in favor of the Egyptian Lire.
Maybe it’s me, but this doesn’t smell right at all……… There’s something missing from this report that would probably get some power-people on both sides quickly into jail or a 6-foot hole. The “what is missing” part is unknown.
Iranian TV Program Teaches Toddlers About Martyrdom
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 3:10PM EST (link)Transcript here:
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD217009
To see the video itself, you have to be registered at MEMRI.
Beyond the pale.
Train Up A Child in.....
Wubbies World (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 3:15PM EST (link)… the way they should go, and they will not depart from it.
It’s called indoctrination starting at birth. Let it never be said that those who would do us harm do not know its value. The left of this country knows its value as well. The schools are not so mind numbing PC, not to mention deliberately failing in economics and civics lessons for a reason.
Join The Red State Strike Force
><> If It’s Worth Doing, It’s Worth Doing Right The First Time.
Arrest made in Denmark mall shooting of two Jews.......
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Thursday, January 1st at 11:56PM EST (link)Surprise, surprise, surprise….. born in Lebanon, parents are Palestinians.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3649055,00.html
Add me to the list...
USNJIMRET (Diary) Friday, January 2nd at 9:10AM EST (link)if you please.
I am only disappointed that Israel is exercising such restraint as it is.
Add me to the list
Warren (Diary) Friday, January 2nd at 11:54AM EST (link)Warren Duke
Whoever stands by Israel...
Praying (Diary) Friday, January 2nd at 12:10PM EST (link)will be standing in the end.
I wholly, 100% stand behind Israel’s right to defend its self, and I wholly, 100% stand behind the need to stop the radical Islamic terrorists!!
No!!!11!1!!1!1! The Bilderbergers are coming
I agree.
Shannon Bell (Diary) Friday, January 2nd at 4:31PM EST (link)Cut em’ loose.
Please add me to this list.
hunter (Diary) Sunday, January 4th at 8:47AM EST (link)Thanks.
hunter
I'm in
Rich Tandler (Diary) Sunday, January 4th at 9:27AM EST (link)The moral equivalence being touted by the UN and others is nothing short of outrageous.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the tears of defeated politicians of BOTH parties and at ALL levels over the next few election cycles.
The Three T’s of reform–Term Limits, Tax Reform, and the Tenth Amendment
Behind 'em 1000%
TimB52 Sunday, January 4th at 12:58PM EST (link)Just finish the job, IDF!
Count me in too
hoosierteacher (Diary) Sunday, January 4th at 3:36PM EST (link)When terrorists send rockets against homes and schools, there is no limit on how much Israel should respond. If they want to do things the right way, Israel should take the Gaza strip, and expel every single citizen. Further attacks against Israel should be responded to in the same manner until no one attacks Israel again.
Sounds extreme? I think it’s less extreme than going only half way militarily, knowing that Hamas and Hezbollah will only attack innocent civilians again. The only way to deal with terrorists commited to destroying the state of Israel is to kill them all. Only then will Israel have peace, and only then can truly innocent Palestininians prosper.
Remember, these terroists hate the United States along with Israel. They hate democracies, and they shield their militants with civilians. When they strike their enemies, they go after crowded civilian targets. Only a proportianal response will work. Israel needs to commit to a total war strategy if they are ever going to eradicate terrorism. The US won WW2 and the Cold War, and I think Israel can defeat a doctrine of hate in the middle east too.
“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe
Please add me to your list.
Husker (Diary) Monday, January 5th at 12:58AM EST (link)Thank You.
5555555555555
RedWhite_and_Truth (Diary) Monday, January 5th at 8:01AM EST (link)Count me in.
5.
Crowe (Diary) Monday, January 5th at 9:43AM EST (link)Mortal threats cannot be abided.
I’m in as well.
(But I’m unable to recommend, for some reason)
“We sleep soundly in our beds only because
rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harmDear Leader Obama gives us leave to do so.”Please add my endorsement
tankertodd (Diary) Monday, January 5th at 11:14AM EST (link)Support for Israel is so common sense the fact that Europe doesn’t support it concerns me greatly. I strongly stand with Israel.
When the EU comes to negotiate with the PLO’s Abbas but NOT representatives from Hamas, I wonder how any negotiation is remotely possible or even expected to happen. When Hamas is vowing to carry on the fight I wonder why anyone is talking negotiations right now.
———————————
The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race – Chief Justice Roberts
Please add me
AHALgal Monday, January 5th at 1:41PM EST (link)I FULLY support Israel. Their right as a nation, their right as a people, their right to exist in every square inch that was given to them!
Join the RedState Strike Force
I stand with Israel
Loren Heal (Diary) Tuesday, January 6th at 4:42PM EST (link)The only problem I have with their current action in Gaza is that they may have exercised too much restraint.
–
Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.
Genocidal Chants at Anti-Israel Rallies Worldwide
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, January 6th at 6:23PM EST (link)Article at Israel National News with video selections.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129252
————————
Memo to Israel:
No ceasefire.
No truce.
No compromises.
No stopping.
No prisoners.
————————
Memo to The UN:
The only way Israel will even remotely acknowledge your presence is if you completely disband and disavow The Durban II Conference.
————————
Memo to The USA:
It is high time we take The United Nations and kick them the h-e-double-hockey-sticks out of our country and not fund one single dollar to them ever again.
————————
Memo to my RedState family:
If you don’t know what The Durban II Conference is, please visit the following website….. http://www.EyeOnTheUN.org
Cheers !
Hamas Kids 2009
izoneguy (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:33PM EST (link)The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Please add me to the list of Israel supporters
RoxannaDanna (Diary) Thursday, January 8th at 4:32AM EST (link)I apologize in advance if this has been posted already, but considering the latest events in Israel with the recent bombings from sites in Lebanon, these remarks by Biden sprang to mind immediately, especially the last line regarding “it might not be apparent… that we are right.”
“Mark my words,” Biden told donors at a Seattle fund-raiser Sunday night.
“It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America.
“Watch. We’re going to have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.
“And he’s going to need help . . . to stand with him. Because it’s not going to be apparent initially; it’s not going to be apparent that we’re right.”
I have to wonder what Obama will do when he is no longer able to say “there’s only one president at a time” and he’s the ONE. I am not feeling real secure that he will support Israel the same way past Presidents have.
Well… truth be known, I’m not real secure in anything regarding this guy.
A personal blog
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Is it becoming obvious that Obama will undercut Israel?
bk (Diary) Thursday, January 8th at 7:47AM EST (link)Note what he has and has not been saying lately….
He HAS been saying things like, “It’s important that we only have one President at a time,” and so on.
He has NOT been saying (from what I’ve read) that he supports anything Bush is trying to do over there.
That makes it appear to me that he will pull the rug out from under Israel in some form or fashion. I think he shares some of the Code Pink mentality that “peace” means “an absence of uniformed military,” which means a starting point for him is that all Israeli troops must exit Gaza and then we can start talking. That just happens to be Hamas’s position as well, as they don’t really have “soldiers” just “militants” and “civilians”.
Israel Must Drive Hamas Into The Hole They Emerged From
rcov092 (Diary) Friday, January 9th at 1:04AM EST (link)Not only for Israel but for the Palestinians that are suffering from the oppression of the thugs.
Randy Covington
“Not One Red Dime for the NRSC or NRCC till they stop trying to elect liberals”
Join the RedState Strike Force
EPU: I’m All In
ntrepid (Diary) Friday, January 9th at 1:21PM EST (link)Sorry for being so late to the game on this…still catching up from the holidays.
Without taking the time to read all 351 comments, I’ll just add this quick montage from Sharansky’s “The Case for Democracy”:
“A world without moral clarity…is a world in which the only democracy in the Middle East is perceived as the greatest violator of human rights in the world.”
…and…
“A lack of moral clarity is also the tragedy that has befallen efforts to advance peace and security in the world.”
…and…
“…misplaced sympathy for the weak can be manipulated by tyrants…how easy it is for those living in a free society to lose moral clarity. In our television age, when pictures without context immediately influence our emotions, when cause and effect are deemed irrelevant, when only suffering is important, human sympathy and deep desire for peace can turn into a weapon of tyranny.”
Damn those useful idiots. Damn them all to hell.
Ntrepid
Proud Member for 4 Years and 4 Months
“Everybody has an agenda. Except for me.” – Michael Crichton, State of Fear.
Yes, I'm late to the party...
randy streu (Diary) Sunday, January 11th at 9:39PM EST (link)add me anyway, please.
Blogging also at
SLC Republitarian
The Minority Report
Isn't this dandy?
izoneguy (Diary) Tuesday, January 13th at 2:41PM EST (link)The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
I cannot agree.
Matthew Weaver (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 1:51PM EST (link)I have never understood the knee jerk support that many offer Israel as it thumbs its nose at the world and commits war crimes in its murderous reign of terror against the Palestinians. I am an American and I can see absolutely no benefit to the U.S. in supporting and facilitating Israel’s actions. We do not need the blood of Israeli war crimes on our hands.
As I write in my own blog:
Israel’s murderous reign of terror on Palestinians is a war crime that undermines its very legitimacy. In my opinion, the state of Israel as it currently exists and acts is a pariah state that should be isolated and dismantled—beginning with the end of all Israeli occupation of lands outside its 1948 borders and end to any and all actions to control land, air, and sea access to Palestinian lands. Further, Israel must end its apartheid rule against its non-Jewish residents and honor the right of return of all families who fled or were driven from their homes when the Jewish state was created. Finally, Israeli leaders who have the blood of war crimes on their hands should be arrested and prosecuted for their actions. Until these steps are taken, it is my recommendation that no nation, company, or individual should have any dealings with the state of Israel or its citizens, lest they be guilty of facilitating and supporting Israel’s war crimes.
As for the United States, Israel aggression, oppression, and war crimes do not reflect our values, nor serve our interests. Enough is enough—No more money, no more weapons, and no more support. Period.
And a thought about Palestinian resistance. Any resistance is legitimate and is no less than I’d claim if I were in their aggrieved position. Finally, whether Palestinians ultimately choose to recognize Israel or not is a question best left for the future as Israel does not deserve recognition today.
["For my next act, I'll let the Hamas puppeteer who stuck his hand up my @$$ right after making sure there were a dozen little girls present at the weapons cache for the latest Israeli strike -- which he knew was coming because of leaflet drops and cell phone calls from the dirty Zionists warning civilians to get out of the way -- get back to his business of firing rockets at civilians, and move eastward to Iran, so Ahmadinejad can stick his hand up my @$$ and make me mouth the words, "Jews are dogs and Israel should be wiped off the map!" while simultaneously claiming to be a proponent of justice and humanity, and an opponent of non-Jew genocide."
Get the h*ll off my website, you anti-Semitic, pro-terrorist POS.
-JE]
Matthew Weaver
http://www.TheAntiSemiticProTerroristView.com
Wow you think Israel is commiting war crimes and you call us knee jerk...you must be clueless....nt
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 1:55PM EST (link)“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Re "you must be clueahhahhcccaagacccckkkkkkgahaaggg...
Matthew Weaver (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 1:58PM EST (link)[:whispering: The International Zionist Conspiracy says 'Hi,' paskudnyak. Now go back to Larry Johnson-land with the rest of the we-just-hate-Obama-beyond-all-reason crowd. - Moe Lane]
Matthew Weaver
http://www.TheAntiSemiticProTerroristView.com
Either you're clueless or your pro-firing rockets at Jewish children
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:03PM EST (link)Your call.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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You guys really hate it when your gold devalues like it has.
NightTwister (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 1:55PM EST (link)That’s when your racial bigotry comes out the most.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
Serious pile of dog crap here...Moe...somebody???....nt
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 1:56PM EST (link)“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Oh so now we're pro-banning trolls? :-) (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:01PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
As long as it is for substance rather than style or personal grudges....
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:03PM EST (link)do we really want to have this conversation?
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
No actually I do want to have this conversation
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:05PM EST (link)If you think RS should tolerate BushLied trolling of a thread about a mother whose Marine son died, I’d like to hear you say that.
The fact is, Birdmojo admitted that at times he was deliberately trolling here. You’re the only one who never saw it. You defended that clown against charges he himself confessed to.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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So should I now expect that you will be watching my every comment...
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:13PM EST (link)perhaps you will purposefully goad me into the same argument day in and day out until I finally get sick of playing, then you can feel great upon blamming me?
I voiced my concerns Neil and I left it at that…for the record you are the one who decided to bring this up in a totally unrelated thread. Let’s just let sleeping, or mildly awake in this case, dogs lie…after all it’s my B-day and I am hoping to make it another year…at least.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I don't know why you've decided to villify me
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:16PM EST (link)But the fact that you’re defending that troll kinda nullifies the impact of your attacks on me, heh.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
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Reasonable people can disagree....
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:22PM EST (link)you say he was a troll, I say that he was using poor judgment in his approach. His style was different, but the values he was striving to articulate are pretty much the same as yours and mine. I know this because I communicated with him instead of just calling him a troll at every chance available.
Anyhow, like I said before, I made my complaint known. Now if you could quit trolling me over this matter that would be nice.
Thanks.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
You aren't worth my time
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:32PM EST (link)You’re a steel belted *something*, that’s for sure.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
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No need to name call Neil....nt
Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:43PM EST (link)“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Did Hamas write that for you?
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:00PM EST (link)You really think any country should run its affairs according to a vote of its neighbors. I guess sovereignty is a concept foreign to you.
And if you think Israel’s Jew-hating neighbors, whose views you seem to use to form your opinions, are unbiased in their reports of ‘crimes,’ you truly are an idiot.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Matthew - go live in Israel while Hamas launches missles at you
izoneguy (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 2:04PM EST (link)Do you know anyone who lives over there?
Have you ever been over there?
Hamas & Iran call for the extermination of Israel.
As a soverign country & people Israel has the
right to defend itself. If anyone should be hauled
up for warcrimes it is Hamas’s leadership.
Israel will destroy Hamas but the desire of
Iran will still be to destroy Israel.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Isnt' there a "don't feed the trolls" rule of thumb?
shooflyguy68 Wednesday, January 14th at 2:13PM EST (link)The first part of his first sentence is reasonable comment for debate: “I have never understood the knee jerk support that many offer Israel…” Everything else is crap because he is not basing his arguments on any facts. Instead, he relies on misinformation or outright lies. So, while I think it would be a valuable to discuss if we should always support Israel in all situations, the fact is that this thread is about this particular series of events. There is no doubt that Israel deserves our support in its efforts to destroy Hamas’ ability to launch rockets into the civilian population of Israel.
If there is proof of individual instances of war crimes committed by the IDF, then we should investigate them on an individual basis. We can be sure of one thing, however. If Israel discovers that any of its troops committed war crimes, I am sure that the perpetrators will be punished. I don’t think anyone can say the same for Hamas investigating or prosecuting its own war criminals. After all, they would have to imprison every member that has taken part in launching rockets into Israel at civilian populations.
I disagree that the first sentence is reasonable
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, January 14th at 3:04PM EST (link)Many of us, many times, have made genuine arguments for Israel, proving that it’s not knee-jerk support.
The fact that he ignores that and calls it knee-jerk doesn’t speak well of him.
I’m not sure that he’s a troll though. As an RS contributor recently said to me, the Middle East as a topic just makes some people idiots sometimes.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
But then your support is not knee jerk
shooflyguy68 Wednesday, January 14th at 3:26PM EST (link)and his argument fails completely. I do believe it is possible for someone to display knee-jerk support for Israel and so that can be a topic of legitimate debate. However, as you note and I detailed, this recent action by Israel is not a situation in which someone can legitimately claim that the support for Israel on RedState is knee-jerk.
I am with you on this one...
Hammer2008 (Diary) Sunday, January 18th at 2:00AM EST (link)http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129461
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Too much noise! “Noise! You’ll have noise enough before long. The Regulars are coming out.” ~ Paul Revere (April 18th, 1775′s eve…)