In the latest Mad-Magazine-like-Spy-vs.-Spy move, the House Dems have hatched a plan which reminds me of their ill-fated plan to delay seating Senator-elect Scott Brown until they had another ObamaCare vote on the Senate floor.
The Dems backed down. Similarly, they will back down from the Slaughter plan.
Former Speaker Gingrich describes the Slaughter plan in a tweet about a Brian Darling blog:
“Incredible. We’ve gone from passing bills without reading them to passing bills without voting on them.”
They haven’t tried it yet, they are thinking about it.
But now that the Senate Parliamentarian has ruled the obvious, that you can not vote on a reconciliation measure if the bill you are attempting to reconcile has not been signed into law — the Slaughter plan looks both desperate and comical.
It is also (obviously) unconstitutional and will, if carried out, create a public outcry that will make burning witches at the stake look rational.
Just like the Black Spy thought the White Spy was caged and an easy target, the trillion dollar President and the Speaker find themselves without the votes and trying again to cheat the U.S. Constitution, public opinion and voters who want Congress to stop the irrational ObamaCare quest and start over. Their persistent problem is they keep causing their colleagues mortal political harm with their increasingly hare-brained-Slaughter schemes.
You know, like lets-use-reconciliation-to-pass-the-hated-Senate-ObamaCare-bill. (It’s no shock that Obama has hit his lowest Gallup poll approval rating ever.)
Ironically, the trillion dollar President has created a bi-partisan health care effort, it’s just that it’s a bi-partisan alliance against his bill. What is causing cognitive dissonance in the White House and among the Democratic Party’s cognoscenti is the simple fact that the only thing bi-partisan about ObamaCare is the opposition to it.
And the Slaughter plan of passing ObamaCare without voting on it, in the face of the Senate Parliamentarian decision, the current political anti-incumbent environment, the views of independent voters and seniors about ObamaCare is as if the Democrats are like the self-immolating monks protesting the Vietnam War.
The Speaker’s problem is that not every Democrat has signed up for the ObamaCare self-immolation school of Pelosi politics.
If the Dems actually try the Slaughter (no pun intended) plan, Americans will burn down the Dems’ house. Really. No kidding.
In the meantime, the House Republicans should petition the Supreme Court to hear their case against the-pass-the-bill-without-voting-on-it, should the Dems try it. The Supreme Court would quickly declare it unconstitutional. But just the fact that I am writing this sentence makes me feel like I am writing about a banana republic — you know — where the rules are ignored and a small minority is imposing draconian changes and hated laws on a public straining to also play by the rules.
But in banana republics, where leaders give the Constitution and the public the middle finger, the public eventually gets really very angry, and starts doing more than breaking windows. Something like this could persuade some that it is just not fair if only one side plays by the rules.
Meanwhile, outside of the Slaughter-Pelosi fantasy land, the news keeps getting worse for the Dems. The Hill ran a story today titled: “House Democrats’ ‘no’ votes are piling up as healthcare reform moves forward,” and Talking Points Memo reports another No is still at No.
An undecided who was not even listed on the NRCC whip count (meaning they did not think he would switch from Yes to No) but was listed in The Hill’s whip count as undecided, is sounding very much like a No vote, as Talking Points Memo reports.
And the Hispanic Caucus has seemed to learn their lesson from Rep. Stupak and Senator Lieberman — if you want a change that the House Leadership will not give you — take their bill hostage until they cave.
Of course, the Hispanic Caucus must shoot the hostage if the Leadership says No — and the perceived credibility on the shoot-the-hostage-part is really low for the Hispanic Caucus. Their beef is they want illegals to be included as beneficiaries in ObamaCare.
Regardless of whether or not you think the Hispanic Caucus has the cajones to pull the trigger, the Leadership is now faced with another pool of possible No votes against the Senate bill — just like the pro-lifers, maybe.
What is beginning to happen is pretty clear: since Members believe the leadership does not have the votes and ObamaCare will fail in the House — there is a line forming in front of No, so Members can get on the right side of their voters — the Speakers pleadings for her caucus to self-immolate notwithstanding.
(This post was written in response to those “paging Perrin” and the others who who have been commenting on Darling’s blog, asking for my take on the Slaughter “plan.”)
KnightsofMalta
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
Why not just let
10ksnooker (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:14PM EST (link)Obama write it down and sign it, like Hugo Chavez does.
Don't give him any ideas
Lloyd Davis (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:24PM EST (link)…………………………………………………………………………………………………..
The mistake a lot of politicians make is in forgetting they’ve been appointed and thinking they’ve been anointed.
- Claude Pepper
…………………………………………………………..
No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
- Ronald Reagan
He is starting to explore the executive order
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:36PM EST (link)option since his legislative skill, uh, (fill in the blank, __________, below.)
Is the blank dogcrap? -nt
Leopard1996 (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:41PM EST (link)“The accumluated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, “Save Us!”….and I’ll look down and whisper, “No”…The Watchmen
could be
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:46PM EST (link)I was thinking of something else
If Obama does sign a HCR bill, undoubtedly we'll also see a signing statement.
SoFiMil (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 8:17AM EST (link)The statists’ standard for passing a bill:
49.9% or less.
www.suvstrategery.blogspot.com
That might not be as far-fetched
JHancock (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 10:33PM EST (link)as some people seem to think. After all, if the Dems are already messing with Article 1by trying to reconcile to fairly dissimilar bills (Article 1 clearly outlines the path of a SINGLE bill through the House and Senate). Liberals pay tribute to the shrine of ideology–not the Law or the Constitution. Does anyone think Obama would step down if offered a third term-or if by some Birther miracle he turned out on some technicality to be foreign born?? No-he would try to stay president and the far left would support him as a new FDR.
Dan,
redneck_hippie (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:24PM EST (link)I love you.
The Vapor Vote. Spy vs. Spy. ROFLMAO
:)
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:37PM EST (link)(Me too.)
I had to google ROFLMAO
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:47PM EST (link)Rolling On The Floor Laughing My As* Off
NICE.
Google this
izoneguy (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 9:00PM EST (link)NFIAA
Kind of sums up the socialists
http://shop.cafepress.com/nfiaa
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Dan...
joejm65 Thursday, March 11th at 7:31PM EST (link)You’re the only blogger who gives me any hope that passage of this bill will not occur. This has been a rollercoaster ride with twists and turns happening almost every minute, it seems. Now, the Dems are talking about passing…a shell bill? I look forward to your thoughts on that. Hopefully, you’ll write about it soon, since they want to vote on this next week. Thanks again…
I will write about it...
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:38PM EST (link)later, my brain is, uh, squeezed.
Just wondering...
rbdwiggins (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:33PM EST (link)Is Vice-President Biden stupid enough to reverse the decision of the Parliamentarian?
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan
Are you serious?
Bill S (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:40PM EST (link)You have to ask about the depth of Biden’s stupidity?
It is boundless.
Fortunately, the SCOTUS has more sense than the VP.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
If they tried it
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:39PM EST (link)there will be violence.
Really.
And why not?
cwilson (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:51PM EST (link)A) It’s Joe Biden.
B) What could happen? You think he’d get impeached or something? Does overruling the parliamentarian count as a “High Crime or Misdemeanor”? While this action would be a metaphorical crime, and an abuse of power, it’s not actually ILLEGAL. In fact, as president of the Senate, Biden explicitly has this power.
C) It’s Joe Biden.
D) You think the White House cares whether we “burn down the (Democrat) House”? Obama’s not running for re-election this year; what does he care. And if he succeeds in the “permanent leftward shift of the political culture” (hat tip: Mark Steyn) that the left has been panting for since Woodrow Wilson…he’ll call it a proud victory and take his lumps in 2012. Besides, the ONLY thing he worries about is the R’s taking 2/3 of the House and Senate — what they’d need to override his veto when they attempt to repeal it. And 67 Senators ain’t happening — and neither is 290 House seats.
E) It’s Joe Biden. Stupid is What. He. Does.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! –Samuel Adams
Not too sure about that...
rbdwiggins (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 9:11AM EST (link)If in the face of overwhelming public opposition, the Democrats, using parliamentary tricks and subversion of legislative rules, ram this unconstitutional government take-over of the Healthcare Industry down the throats of the American people, the electorate will retaliate.
Even the bluest districts in the bluest states will lose all support from Independents, and at best, those districts will become toss-ups. The remainder of the legislative districts will lean toward, or fall squarely into, the Republican column.
Under that scenario, there’s an outside chance that Republicans could sweep the Senate races. In the House, the Republicans could conceivably, but not likely, seat 300 members.
After witnessing the slaughter of their colleagues in 2010 and knowing fully that President Obama is a lame-duck, is it realistic to believe that Senate Democrats up for reelection in 2012 would vote to sustain a presidential veto?
The American people could awaken on November 7, 2012 with a Republican in the White House, Republican super-majorities in both Houses of Congress and a clear mandate to reverse all of President Obama’s un-American agenda.
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan
Dan
chbroussard (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:37PM EST (link)Well said. Great post. Concise, articulate, and clever. My favorite—the banana republic comparison. Priceless.
I have BIG FUN
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:39PM EST (link)writing this stuff.
Dead men walking
neoavatara (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:45PM EST (link)The Dem leadership may not realize it yet, but this process is dead, unless they find some unethical underhanded way of proceeding (and don’t be surprised if they do). They are so arrogant they believe that this is a cause worth destroying the constitution over.
As for Biden…never question his level of stupidity.
http://neoavatara.com/blog/?p=10359
www.neoavatara.com/blog
I jjust don't see how they don't bribe enough people
earlgrey (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:25PM EST (link)To make this happen. They really don’t have to bribe that many.
Take the bribe, lose your job
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:41PM EST (link)Did you know Senator Nelson is wearing Kevlar, and his wife’s social life is in tatters, because they are pariahs in their state.
Wow.
earlgrey (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:49PM EST (link)Do the house dems know that? I love your posts too. Even if this gets passed I owe several nights of good sleep to reading your posts.
No, I don't think they know
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 9:06PM EST (link)Seems Nelson spends a whole lot of time hunkered down in his state.
Really.
"When the gov't fears the people..." [nt]
qixlqatl (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 9:16PM EST (link)“Yet, Freedom! yet thy banner, torn, but flying,
Streams like the thunderstorm against the wind.”
George Gordon Noel Byron
His wife's social life is in tatters.
mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 8:06AM EST (link)I love it. I hope it stays that way. I hope Harry Reid is watching. And Bob Bennett.
Another great post.
davidstone Thursday, March 11th at 7:47PM EST (link)Thanks Dan. I really enjoy your writeups.
Happy to bring some fun
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 9:07PM EST (link)and joy to the world of political warfare.
Which I find to be really fun.
It was fun for us too! watching you come up
gracie (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 3:11AM EST (link)with the idea of the conferees. You wrote the plot and lo DeMint did exactly what you suggested and it worked! It was fascinating to watch. It so thoroughly gumnmed up the works that they couldn’t reconcile it because of the objection but they pretended they’d “rather” discuss the bill in the closet. HA!
You should be proud…you came up with one of the key ideas plus kept your spirits up and many of us obviously with you. Have you ever thought of going into politics? I know the war is not over by any stretch but hopefully one day we can say that Dan Perrin was right all along!
When will the average american
earlgrey (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 7:53PM EST (link)Get mad. He is still at 46 %.
I think Rasmussen has him at 43%
renny (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:06PM EST (link)Regardless, he should be at 0.
I was mad......
xstriperguide (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 9:03AM EST (link)when the Dems. took control of congress in ’06………madder when Hussein won the nomination…………you could see this mess forming four years ago! I guess 43% who approve of this guy are unrepentent commies ; or just plain stupid!
The president has had consistently negative net polling numbers
GCBWI (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 5:52PM EST (link)for quite a while. If 46 per cent of the respondents to the poll you’re citing approve of his performance, then up to 54 per cent disapprove.
As others have cited, Rassmussen Reports has him lower than 46%. Except for a spike in his support around the time of the State of the Union address, Rassmussen has consistently reported him to have a larger percentage disapproving him since the middle of last Novermber. For much of that time, the difference is larger than the margin of error for the poll, so it’s significant.
Rassmussen also publishes a “Presidential Approval Index,” which they calculate using only the “strongly approve” and the “strongly disapprove” numbers from their polls. By that measure, the President has regularly had more than 10 per cent more in the strongly disapprove camp since the middle of last summer.
Obama was supposed to be a uniter, but he turns out to be as polarizing a president as we’ve had.
At Hugh Hewitt's website there's a link
joayn (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:03PM EST (link)that will send a letter to your representative and the 58 Blue Dogs. You can edit the letter to your fancy to each – Hugh’s aiming for one million letters sent this week (over 500,000 have been sent so far).
I think we should help Hugh out. Plus it’s fun. How about it?
http://www.capitolconnect.com/freeourhealthcarenow/default.aspx
America is an idea; a noble idea that essentially boils down to the shocking belief that the masses are in fact not asses. John Nolte
Thanks, I sent my letters and
renny (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:13PM EST (link)copied the link to send to others.
Nice add
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:42PM EST (link)Thanks.
Thanks to our public education system
patrickdalroy Thursday, March 11th at 8:10PM EST (link)there will always be AT LEAST 44% who approve of Obama.
There is an old saying in politics
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:42PM EST (link)if you can’t get 40% of Americans to agree with what ever poll question you write, fire your pollster.
If They Fail To Pass ObamaCare, Obama Will Never See The North Side of 40% Again
IJB Thursday, March 11th at 11:57PM EST (link)Because, if ObamaCare goes down, the Far Left (i.e. his Base) will abandon him.
Losing them, along with solid opposition from Republicans and Indies, will put Obama’s support deep into the 30s. Or lower.
Thank you, Dan! I recommended you on one of my Facebook posts -
Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:54PM EST (link)to a bunch of my friends from high school. I’m AMAZED at how many of these folks are now staunch Conservatives, 30 years after we graduated (one of them thinks Rush Limbaugh is too liberal…..)!
Anyway, several of them are quite happy to read what you have had to say on this subject -
Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy ride…..
Glad I could help make life a little more
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 9:08PM EST (link)happy.
Here is an interesting piece about a Dem pollster's view
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 8:57PM EST (link)which is a whole lot like Charlie Cook’s view:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/11/AR2010031102904.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Thank you!
retail1 Thursday, March 11th at 9:00PM EST (link)You helped not only lower my blood pressure but I do beleive my hair has stopped turning gray.
Pelosi doesn't have votes but will call for vote anyway
mavericktime Thursday, March 11th at 9:22PM EST (link)According to Matthew Continetti and Paul Ryan.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/tws/daily/daily.asp#blog-429754
“Why move ahead when the votes aren’t there? Pelosi hopes that launching the process will create enough momentum to flip Democrats her way. The clock is ticking. The speaker has two weeks before Congress breaks for Easter Recess. And the recess could kill off health care reform, since many of the wavering Democrats will get an earful from their constituents when they return home. Republicans expect Democrats to lose votes over the break.”
I believe that Pelosi, Waxman and Obama are going to be making major deals and giveaways over the weekend and early next week. Apparently, there’s a lot of stuff they can do that isn’t evident or won’t be obvious.
But, even if this doesn’t pass, I would think the Democrats would just want to get beyond this. It’s dragging everything they do down. Why would they want to prolong this?
I don't know that a zillion dollars of pork does much
stigmo Thursday, March 11th at 9:33PM EST (link)If you’re still going home in November.
the will call a final vote soon I think
thurman Thursday, March 11th at 9:44PM EST (link)I heard somewhere last night that one WH staffer leaked that they needed this fiasco over, win or lose, and wanted a final vote and then move on.
Pelosi will call a vote in the next 2 weeks even if her whip count is short, and hope the drama and pressure will be enough to sway a few swing voters
They also will call a vote because even they are finally realizing they need to move on, win or lose.
We may finally, FINALLY see this horror film come to an end if we can kill this once and for all with a final vote on record, if we can kill it in the House.
Do not let up, when we’re so close.
The we must have a vote to end it
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 10:29PM EST (link)is consistent with their arrogance, self-deception and I-can’t-stop-myself alcoholic type approach to health care: keep doing it until it kills me or hurts those around me, and then do it some more.
Dem base would demand they at least vote
mavericktime Thursday, March 11th at 11:03PM EST (link)Even if they lose. Don’t you think, Dan?
I do---the description fits the DailyKos as much if not more than it does Pelosi et al
JSobieski (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 11:43PM EST (link)“their” arrogance is not limited to the Democrat Congressional leadership
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
the will call a final vote soon I think
thurman Thursday, March 11th at 9:44PM EST (link)I heard somewhere last night that one WH staffer leaked that they needed this fiasco over, win or lose, and wanted a final vote and then move on.
Pelosi will call a vote in the next 2 weeks even if her whip count is short, and hope the drama and pressure will be enough to sway a few swing voters
They also will call a vote because even they are finally realizing they need to move on, win or lose.
We may finally, FINALLY see this horror film come to an end if we can kill this once and for all with a final vote on record, if we can kill it in the House.
Do not let up, when we’re so close.
Their base won't be able to let go though--they will stew in their juices right up through November
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 9:54AM EST (link)I am going to start watching MSNBC again just to enjoy the angst
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
As always, Thanks.
NDPhog (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 9:38PM EST (link)Your posts are regular reading for me, and I forward it on to many friends who always ask me to “send on any articles by the Health Care guy.”
:)
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 10:17PM EST (link)I’m so glad you enjoy them.
Read the "healthcare reform news" on Yahoo,
qixlqatl (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 9:44PM EST (link)(Yeah, I know, Yahoo is pretty much all in for this from the way their stories slant) I noticed that the comments were largely negative with regard to the bill itself AND that the “thumbs up/ thumbs” down rating counters show a 2.5+-/1 approval of negative comments, and a 3/1 disapproval for positive comments.
“Yet, Freedom! yet thy banner, torn, but flying,
Streams like the thunderstorm against the wind.”
George Gordon Noel Byron
Tracking nicely with the polls
Dan Perrin (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 10:17PM EST (link)Nice add.
Thanks.
Looks worse now [nt]
qixlqatl (Diary) Saturday, March 13th at 10:40PM EST (link)“Yet, Freedom! yet thy banner, torn, but flying,
Streams like the thunderstorm against the wind.”
George Gordon Noel Byron
I mean the differential is greater, 5-1 against+- [nt]
qixlqatl (Diary) Saturday, March 13th at 10:43PM EST (link)“Yet, Freedom! yet thy banner, torn, but flying,
Streams like the thunderstorm against the wind.”
George Gordon Noel Byron
The first of many?
pragmatic Thursday, March 11th at 10:32PM EST (link)I’m hoping, against my better judgment, that the Dems will learn from this. Then we won’t have to go through this again with Cap and Tax, “Immigration reform”, etc. I have no doubt though that we’ll be ready to thwart any more subverting of the Constitution they have in store.
“The unapparent connection is more powerful than the apparent one.”–Heraclitus.
Thanks, Dan
Jonas Parker Thursday, March 11th at 10:48PM EST (link)I think very salient your comment that:
‘the public eventually gets really very angry, and starts doing more than breaking windows. Something like this could persuade some that it is just not fair if only one side plays by the rules’
I am personally ready to break windows. And more. But I don’t see a lot of folks in this camp, which troubles me. I get the feeling that while people’s hair is turning gray and whatever else, this is still sort of a ‘well, we’ll vote against them next time’ sort of exercise. I have a problem with that, because I think this is a tipping point for our democracy. If the Marxists shove this through, and we don’t fill the streets to whatever degree necessary and physically (if necessary) stop this, I think we have reached the time that many founders predicted that a democracy has a limited life. Our country and our constitution cannot survive the results of this bill. A very good comment by some pundit recently said that if this passes, non-Marxists may be in office, but they will never again be in power. That says it all, and that’s why the Marxists are willing to die for this.
If there is sufficient public ‘bodies in the street’ reaction to a negative outcome here, and if the Reps are smart enough to petition the SCOTUS timely, it will give SCOTUS the confidence to stand up for the constitution.
Look… I get it that a course of action that I describe could turn our lives upside down. But I have personally seen what people in the USSR and Eastern Europe were willing to do to throw off the yoke of dictatorship. I was there, I have an adopted sister who grew up there, and I witnessed it. Just a bonafide. Are we not in the pivotal time now where we must make a choice ? This is real life. If we don’t fight it now, we either agree to control over our lives, or we will fight it later, when the fight is much worse.
So I request that we all consider what is at stake here, and to what degree we accept the challenge of the founders regarding the preservation of democracy and a government that governs with the consent of the governed.
It is very likely decision time, shortly. Sleep on it.
There won't be a vote
eastbaylarry (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 11:01PM EST (link)Until and unless Nancy gets the count she wants.
From this perspective, the longer they delay the better.
2+2=4 dammit!
there may be a vote
Dan Perrin (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 9:21AM EST (link)to “end it”
She may not get the votes she needs but will have a vote to shut up their base and to end the political pain of everyone involved.
There won't be a vote
eastbaylarry (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 11:01PM EST (link)Until and unless Nancy gets the count she wants.
From this perspective, the longer they delay the better.
2+2=4 dammit!
So, it ends with sleaze and sneakiness
hunter (Diary) Thursday, March 11th at 11:37PM EST (link)Nice nation, while it lasted,
This lack of judgment respect and leadership will inevitably lead to much worse decisions
Our ‘leadership’ is too busy dissipating our national wealth and sensibility to make good choices.
We are in grave peril of stumbling into a major war we are not prepared for.
hunter
It will be the point at which
Dan Perrin (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 9:24AM EST (link)they went too far.
And it makes a mockery of the Obama claim that he just wants an “up or down vote.”
Thank you, Dan
grandma Thursday, March 11th at 11:44PM EST (link)I feel like you just gave me a re-assuring night-night kiss on the cheek. Now I can go to sleep. Maybe tomorrow’s installment of the saga will bring the complete imploding of Obama’s Hellcare.
Sleep well,
Dan Perrin (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 9:20AM EST (link)Victory is at hand
Glad you posted this.
antisocial (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 12:12AM EST (link)I feel the administration is trying to tire us out. Otherwise this repeated trials don’t make sense.
Obama Doctrine – Boot On The Throat
—————————–
What is to be done?
——————————
No. You can’t – Moe Lane
——————————
The Emperor has no clothes!!!
Trying to tire us out is backfiring
whartman Friday, March 12th at 9:00AM EST (link)We aren’t getting tired. We are getting larger in number.
I disagree.... The intensity is missing this time.
antisocial (Diary) Saturday, March 13th at 1:13AM EST (link)The vote is scheduled for next week… I don’t see the intensity.
Obama Doctrine – Boot On The Throat
—————————–
What is to be done?
——————————
No. You can’t – Moe Lane
——————————
The Emperor has no clothes!!!
They voted for war on Iraq war without reading it...
libertyshrugged (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 1:06AM EST (link)otherwise they would realize that it wasn’t just about WMD!
How to really Vote
spicer Friday, March 12th at 8:37AM EST (link)It’s enough that the people know there was an election -
The people who cast their votes decide nothing -
The people who count the votes decide everything -
- Joseph Stalin -
It we lose, we win
whartman Friday, March 12th at 9:08AM EST (link)Worst case, if Obamacare passes:
1. Implementation is scheduled to be largely delayed (part of the attempt to minimize calculated costs).
2. Legal action will delay implementation.
3. There would be widespread protests.
4. Liberalism is given a bad rep that will last for a decade or two.
Then, in 3 years, we simply undo it. Lets not fall for the Marxist ploy of believing that we can’t reverse movement in the Socialist direction.
Can't? Don't? Won't?
petrarch Friday, March 12th at 10:28AM EST (link)The problem isn’t that we CAN not ever push back statism by repealing laws, ending programs, and sacking entire government departments. It’s that we never DO. I’d be a little more sanguine about “well, we’ll just ride public anger to power and then repeal it in a few years” if conservatives had ever, even once, accomplished that.
Scragged – Conservative Online Opinion Magazine
Not sanguine
whartman Friday, March 12th at 10:57AM EST (link)We typically don’t push back because once it is in place, it becomes a part of life, and there is too much resistance. There are always some who profit from the Socialist experiments, or at least appear to, short term.
What I am proposing is that IF if passes, we make it clear that we do NOT accept it, and will be reversing it in good time. Then instead of everyone making plans based on the assumption that it will continue (and thus make it continue), everything will remain “up in the air” and few will rely on the changes. I am not sanguinely assuming that we will reverse it; I am proposing — as a tactic — that from the very moment that it is passed that we declare that we will ultimately reverse it.
Worth a try, I suppose
petrarch Friday, March 12th at 12:59PM EST (link)Better than nothing, anyway. Then at least we’ll learn if that works or not.
Scragged – Conservative Online Opinion Magazine
Burning Witches Was Rational
potkas7 Friday, March 12th at 10:14AM EST (link)Though we laugh at the idea today,in its day, witch burning was a supremely rational act.
There were special tribunals duly enacted by statute; There were rules of evidence; there was a manual of court procedures, the Malleus Maleficarum, that was scrupulously followed. What we know now that they didn’t know then is that there are no witches!
And don’t get the idea that thees trials took place in some dark age. Witch Burning reached it peak in the scientific age of Newton, Liebnitz and Hooke.
Before you cavalierly dismiss the witch burning trials as an aberration, consider the idea that a century hence, a new generation, looking back at our politics and ideologies, will give out time its own chapter in the newly revised, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.
I hope not, but
jetman Friday, March 12th at 11:07AM EST (link)it may be we are approaching the time to water the Tree of Freedom.
Second thought
lightfootletters Friday, March 12th at 1:00PM EST (link)Based on my research, legislation can be passed without a recorded vote. Such a non voteing procedure would be binding on no one.
I hear they are within 4 votes needed to
earlgrey (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 2:28PM EST (link)Pass the bill.
Ugh
stigmo Friday, March 12th at 2:36PM EST (link)I hate it when I need a second dose of Dan Perrin w/in 24 hours.
All they need is 216...
APA Guy (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 2:45PM EST (link)It’s only a matter of time before they whip the last few apropos the way the House leadership runs its party.
All they need is 216...
APA Guy (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 2:45PM EST (link)It’s only a matter of time before they whip the last few apropos the way the House leadership runs its party.
Watch what they do, not what they say
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 2:59PM EST (link)Nancy has predicted imminent Presidential signing ceremonies for MONTHS!
The democrat caucus in the House is in totally disarray and Pelosi is probably taking some strong meds.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
The four votes away is just pro-Pelosi propaganda
Dan Perrin (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 3:05PM EST (link)Really, it is.
Thank you. Throughout this process I have been disappointed
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 3:08PM EST (link)but how easily some on our side go in full Doomsday mode. Why are people trusting some of these idiotic reports?
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
"Suddenly Improved Chances of Passing" Hell-th Care: A.P.
Ausonius (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 2:54PM EST (link)See:
http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx/money/business/APNews/General-Business/20100312/U_US-Health-Care-Overhaul?pageid=1
“President Barack Obama delayed next week’s Asian trip on Friday to seize on suddenly improved prospects for his sweeping health care legislation, as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi forecast final passage of the overhaul in days.
“It’s going to be historic,” she said as House and Senate leaders and the White House reached for final agreement on the measure.”
And:
“Pelosi spoke with reporters after a closed-door meeting of the Democratic rank and file, a session that she said left her feeling “very exhilarated” about the prospects of passing the legislation.”
Ausonius: 310-395 A.D. Teacher, Poet, Consul, General, Farmer.
Personal Tutor to the future St. Paulinus of Nola and to young Gratian, heir to the throne during the turbulent final years of the Western Roman Empire. When his former student Gratian was assassinated, Ausonius threw up his hands and retired to his farm in Gaul. Rome was captured by barbarians 14 years after his death.
Cato@rock.com
At what point do we start calling this a coup d'etat?
civil truth (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 3:05PM EST (link)At what point do we forget about calling this trickery or “stretching the rules” and call it an abrogation of our system of representative government?
Or can centuries of protection against unbridled majority rule be simply overturned by a determined cabal of legislative leaders and the President/Vice President able to round up a simply majority in both houses to go along with overturning all prior rules and precedents.
We had the “Friday Night Massacre” that sealed the doom of the Nixon administration; whenever this passes, we need to call this the “[day of the week] Slaughter” and memorialize the day as a “Day of Infamy”.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
We need the MSM to turn on them...
speciallist (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 3:20PM EST (link)we need journalists to start doing their jobs….we know this
the Truth will save us
Never happen; the MSM IS them. nt
Achance (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 3:29PM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
I agree with what you call it
Jonas Parker Friday, March 12th at 8:04PM EST (link)But the answer that seems to be missing on this blog and others is to the question: ‘what is to be done about it ?’
If it is not stopped here, then when will it be stopped ? Does anyone think if this passes that the rest of the agenda is not far behind ? Does anyone think that one can sort of ‘play nice’ with these folks and survive ?
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but my perception is that this is exactly what you call it, a coup d’etat, yet I don’t see very many calling for extreme action in response… I don’t mean violence, but rather mobbing DC, local federal buildings… whatever. An OVERWHELMING presentation of bodies on the street. Something that MSM can’t ignore, or at least big enough that people will hear of it despite them. The left has shown us this works, and so have our predecessor American patriots.
Darn it, I just don’t see the willingness to get out and do something. One can blog all night, be active in the Rep or Tea Parties, but at this rate the next election will be too late. Personal view is that part of being a conservative is generally a reluctance to call attention with aggressive action, but that is the fulcrum of politics. Guess that’s why we’ve lost for the last 100 years, with a few exceptions (but NO exceptions to the general course of the country).
I know there are many good hearted, passionate people here, but my radical background also informs that there is too little willingness to bring this out of the abstract and take immediate action.
They are stealing the country as we type.
I've been calling it a coup d'etat since the "financial crisis" b4 the election. nt
Achance (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 3:08PM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
Stupak is a firm no, but
earlgrey (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 4:06PM EST (link)One or two of his group has flipped according to national review
Stupak is pretty much saying that the Dems are telling pro-lifers to take a hike!
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 4:46PM EST (link)read ‘They Just Want This Over’ [Robert Costa] over at the Corner at NRO.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzU0MDYxMWEyOTdiNGU1OGU3ZjYzYmE3Y2ZlZDQ5NTY=
Very interesting stuff.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Open left is saying the Stupak
earlgrey (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 5:03PM EST (link)Bloc is crumbling. Do we have any other significant blocks against this?
Seven of the Stupak 12 are holding strong
stigmo Friday, March 12th at 5:06PM EST (link)Is it enough? Who knows. Hopefully Pelosi doesn’t.
That is really close
earlgrey (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 5:28PM EST (link)Gordon, boccieri and matheson are likely to flip to yes. Do you think Stupak’s startling revelations will have an impact?
I keep hearing how close this is.
Which seven?
Menlo (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 5:34PM EST (link)The latest count I saw had 33 “likely no” Democrats that include six who voted for the Stupak Amendment and for the bill in November.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
Yikes!
earlgrey (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 5:48PM EST (link)We need more nos!
Anyone think Stupaks comments will make a difference? Maybe bring back a couple of his block into the fold? Or is it too far gone?
About 73 "undecided"
Menlo (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 6:16PM EST (link)Of those, 5 or 6 look to be “likely yes” from what I’m looking at.
Unfortunately, I expect all 73, save one or two, will be supporters, as well as a couple of the 33.
If my math is correct, it would take 37 Democrats to defeat the bill.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
According to Jay Cost's list
mavericktime Friday, March 12th at 7:29PM EST (link)It appears that 26 Democrats who voted “no” last time will almost be unpersuadable. So, if you add those people to the 178 Republicans (that includes Joseph Cao and Nathan Deal), that makes 204 almost certainly voting no. That would mean that12 more Democrats would be needed to vote no. Does that add up to you?
I like Stupak more and more all the time.
mavericktime Friday, March 12th at 5:20PM EST (link)I read that. He sounds kind of bummed about the whole thing – disillusioned, I think would be the right word.
If I was in his district, I would definitely support him. The guy has principles. I feel bad for him, but he’s a good man and a good Christian. He’s not nasty, he’s honest.
Bitter.
redneck_hippie (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 5:36PM EST (link)I’d read the Stupak interview as well and it has me wondering whether Stupak is lashing out more because he thinks it will pass with abortion funding, or maybe he wants to derail it somehow so we get a do-over. Either way, he is definitely not happy with the way this is playing out.
I realized the same thing around November
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 7:29PM EST (link)Stupak is still a big government lib, but I do respect his integrity.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
The Slaughter Solution Doesn't Help Wavering Democrats
AndrewHyman (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 5:20PM EST (link)Regardless of whether the “Slaughter Solution” is constitutional and regardless of whether the Slaughter Solution complies with the statute about reconciliation, still the Slaughter Solution would not really help wavering House members, IMO.
They cannot avoid the consequences of approving the Slaughter Solution: Obama would then sign the Senate Health Bill into law, and the Senate could then reject the Reconciliation Bill. Pelosi has admitted as much:
Elijah Cummings says they don't trust the senate.
Common_Cents (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 6:19PM EST (link)He isn’t going to fall for the banana in the tail pipe again. That’s going to give them cover to let this go down the drain?
Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from,
behind, the Back Nine.Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.
This is the best House Dem count I've seen
mavericktime Friday, March 12th at 6:16PM EST (link)http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2010/03/counting_the_heads_of_house_de.html
He doesn’t add them up, but lists them in categories as to how persuadable he thinks they are based on 1) public statements about the bill, 2) how McCain did in their district, and 3) their pro-life voting record.
There's another
Menlo (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 6:17PM EST (link)This one may be a better count.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
I think the consensus has been that once
earlgrey (Diary) Friday, March 12th at 9:36PM EST (link)they schedule a vote they’ll have the votes. My understanding is that hey won’t even have the reconciliation bill up for 72 hours before they vote. Surely then they have the votes.
Think about it. THe Dems aren’t talking, which means they are likely to cave and don’t want the public bugging them. Stupack’s coalition is falling apart.
I think were done.
Reichstag
leehazel Saturday, March 13th at 5:57PM EST (link)This talk of “burning” congress is way to reminiscent of the ploy used by Adolph Hitler in his climb to power. He had the Reichstag building burned.
I see far to many parallels between Hitler and Obama and the last thing we should entertain is doing his “job” for him. At this juncture burning and mayhem in Washington District of Corruption is premature.
If there is a substantive effort on the part of the Obamaites to disrupt the election process and thwart the will of the people in either the 2010 or the 2012 election then it is time for some “blood in the streets”
I know I have a more than uncomfortable feeling that with literally $Billions in a Stimulus” slush fund and ACORN, the New Black Panthers, and the Farrakhan group Nation of Islam, to name but a few, are alive and well that the election could very well be in serious trouble.
Keep Your powder Dry and PC is Thought Control
LEE