Senator Conrad, the Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee said yesterday that reconciliation can only be used if the House passes the Senate bill first. As Sen. Conrad declared, “I don’t know of any way, I don’t know of any way where you can have a reconciliation bill pass before the bill that it is meant to reconcile passes.” Neither do I.
Then, the kicker: “When reminded that House Democrats don’t want to do health care in that order, Conrad said bluntly: ‘Fine, then it’s dead.‘”
Now, the Speaker finds herself in the position of having to pass a bill she says she does not have the votes to pass.
Without passing the Senate bill she can’t pass, the Speaker can’t do reconciliation. (See Sen. Conrad, above.)
OK. Now, this next part is really, really important.
The Speaker and the White House find themselves in this position because of Senator DeMint (R-SC). He insisted that Senator McConnell object to the appointment of the House-Senate Conferees, thus preventing a Conference on the bill.
The inability of the Dems to have a House-Senate Conference then forced the Speaker to have a House floor vote on the Senate bill, which she can’t pass. And there the process has been stuck. Has not moved an inch since Sen. DeMint’s objection. It can’t, she does not have the votes.
The Speaker could fix the Senate bill on the House floor by amendment, then pass the Senate bill amended and fixed, but then it would have to go back to the Senate, where it would have to get 60 yes votes, or die. Since it will not get 60 votes ever again in the Senate, it will die — if the Speaker tries the amend the Senate bill on the House floor and send it back to the Senate route.
When Senator DeMint (R-SC) denied the Speaker the ability to fix the bill in Conference, he put the Speaker and the White House in their current box. If there had been a House-Senate Conference, then the House could have fixed the bill without a floor vote and the bill could have changed, without having to send it back to the Senate to face 60 vote margins.
But now, they can’t have a conference, and the Speaker and the White House must pass the unpassable Senate bill, in order to even try reconciliation.
When the Democrats finally admit ObamaCare is dead, historians should note, this is the single act that killed it. And it was such an artistic assassination of the bill.
Even with a city full of people watching the process, and who all saw the House and Senate Conference be denied, all the chattering heads and analysts did not understand what it meant, until it was too late.
KnightsofMalta
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
I just love, love, LOVE Senator DeMint.....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 7:45AM EST (link)He is a PATRIOT!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Senator DeMint Is A Hero On So Many Levels
GJ Merits (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 9:29AM EST (link)First there is his point-of-order amendment and instruction-to-the-conferees in last years budget bill that passed unanimously in one case and by 79-14 in the second that basically stated the yeah votes intent NOT to use reconciliation to pass ObamaCare. The only reason it did not make it into the final conference report for the Senate (after the House and Senate conference meeting) is that Kent Conrad ignored the will of the entire Senate. Kudos number 1 for DeMint – it’s not his fault the Seante can’t stick to its own rules and hold Conrad responsible for ignoring the will of the entire Senate.
Kudos number two is his discovery of the loophole in the reconciliation process that allows for open-ended amendments, which, should this ever get to reconciliation (I don’t think it will), McConnell better have thousands of these things ready to tie up the process until 2050, not just a handful to make a statement and then let the zombie bill pass.
DeMint for president. I’d vote for the guy. Hell, I’d dedicate my every waking moment to making sure this guy stomps Obambi in 2012. Ya hearing us DeMint? What say you? Come on, take up the mantle! Your country needs you.
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison
If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.
To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.
Obama Ready To Sprint ObamaCare Lite
GJ Merits (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 10:18AM EST (link)Watch out Republicans: Obama Readies a Fallback Health-Care Proposal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703510204575085970815851804.html?mod=WSJ_newsreel_us
Also,
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/25/obamas-plan-b/
GOP, do NOT agree to anything from this manipulative trickster. Hold your ground and review anything thoroughly before signing on. If you screw us on this, you will pay.
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison
If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.
To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.
Real Future Sob Stores If ObamaCare Passes
GJ Merits (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 11:06AM EST (link)http://tinyurl.com/yd3l3zz
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents….James Madison
If you want to go fast – go alone. If you want to go far – go together.
To win against tyranny you must embrace not only novel solutions, but fear of the unknown as well.
Keep him in the
fairtaxguy (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 7:45PM EST (link)senate -make him the majority leader in 2012
I learn more here than anywhere I have been on the net. About politics, I mean.
So that's it....?
NeoKong (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 8:05AM EST (link)It’s dead ?
Are you sure Dan ?
Shouldn’t we poke it with a stick or something ?
For some reason all I can think of is Glenn Close and a bath tub.
Follow me on Twitter.
Exactly NeoKing. Although Glenn Close
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 8:11AM EST (link)is more attractive than any of the participants in this story.
Mornin' beck.
NeoKong (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 8:25AM EST (link)Ain’t it kinda’ early in your neck of the woods…?
Follow me on Twitter.
It was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay early Neo.
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 12:18PM EST (link)I am frankly surprised that I got through that with no typos.
Zombieland had the right idea.
Moe Lane (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 8:40AM EST (link)Double-tap the bill anyway.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Double-tap with HE
Raven (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 3:23PM EST (link)Be REAL certain.
But take cover so you don’t get any one you…
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
Oh, and use a pyrophoric liner on the HE
Raven (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 3:25PM EST (link)Burn the thing while blowing it up. Just for that extra little bit of certainty.
Might want to have the HE blessed by a good priest, while you’re at it…
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
or Alan Arkin in "Wait Until Dark".../nt
larryp Thursday, February 25th at 9:20AM EST (link)funniest line ever
partyof1 Thursday, February 25th at 8:06AM EST (link)“I don’t know of any way where you can have a reconciliation bill pass before the bill that it is meant to reconcile passes.”
I still think it’s unwise to keep declaring Obamacare dead, clearly you have not seen The Terminator, on which Obamacare is based. I’ll celebrate when it’s been crushed in an industrial press.
But an outstanding post to be sure.
Yes, and let's not forget "Night of the Living Dead"
WarEagle01 (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 8:48AM EST (link)which, since it was filmed in 1968, has spawned six other Dead films and was remade twice (1990, 2006). Those darn zombies just. won’t. go. away.
“A wise, doughy leg with rich tingly experiences will always reach better conclusions than will a more tanned, muscular leg that hasn’t felt those thrills.” –Chris Matthews’ Leg
“The alternative to the awful extremity of abortion is the indispensable joy of introducing this flawed world to someone who might make it better.”–John Hayward (AKA Dr. Zero)
Budget Bill
dajeeps (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 8:15AM EST (link)I thought they were going to insert the health bill language into the budget bill in reconciliation. I’m a novice on House/Senate rules, and it’s just something I heard so I have no idea whether they can do that or not.
…”I would quarrel with both parties and with every individual of each, before I would subjugate my understanding, or prostitute my tongue or pen to either.”
–John Adams
Why not more ?
mdavt Thursday, February 25th at 8:16AM EST (link)When explained, this seems so easy.
Why has it not been used more often ? Is it simply because things are not normally so delicately balanced in the House ?
Because this is the procedural equivalent of a knife fight.
Moe Lane (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 8:44AM EST (link)And as somebody once pointed out, the first mistake that everybody makes in a knife fight is that they’ve somehow managed to find themselves about to be in a knife fight. Sometimes it’s necessary, but it’s never pretty.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Unless someone brought a gun
petrarch Thursday, February 25th at 9:38AM EST (link)I can’t help but worry that someone is planning to bring a gun to the knife fight. Just exactly how determined to pass this, and how totally disdainful of our Constitutional system, do you suppose the Democrats are? They don’t seem to let the rules stand in their way anywhere else.
Scragged – Conservative Online Opinion Magazine
this is why
sta46 Thursday, February 25th at 8:59AM EST (link)Senator DeMint should be on the short list for 2012
McConnell is such a wimp that he never would have had either the insight or the nerve to object if DeMint hadn’t forced him into it… he’d still be texting his good buddy Lamar (I want both of them gone).
If this objection is the single item that kills this behemoth power grab, every reader at Red State, Big Gov and all the others should call Senator DeMint’s office and thank him for saving us. (202) 224-6121
but Sen McConnell did the blocking Manuever/nt
larryp Thursday, February 25th at 9:24AM EST (link)larryp
sta46 Thursday, February 25th at 12:48PM EST (link)yes McConnell did… but only because DeMint forced his hand… kind of an “either you do it or I will and then everyone will see you for the go- along- to-get-along pu$$ that you really are because you are too busy texting Lamar to take advantage of the available procedural moves”
I don't get this...
writeblock Thursday, February 25th at 11:03AM EST (link)How would going into Conference mean not facing a filibuster? Wouldn’t the Conference Report have been subject to one before it could be brought to the floor for a final vote in the Senate?
I have my personal doubts about DeMint as a candidate for President ever since his “Waterloo” remark. It only galvanized the opposition. Nor is he very charismatic. He’s ideologically on the money, but not the best we can do as Chief Executive. Haley Barbour would be a far better choice imo. Smarter. More articulate. Better record of conservative achievements going back to Reagan–coupled with a more presidential temperament.
I think the real motive...
writeblock Thursday, February 25th at 11:17AM EST (link)…was to simply stall the bill’s passage. It was not some brilliant idea conceived by some kind of Republican genius. Let’s get real. The Brown victory was not anticipated. It was assumed that eventually a bill more palatable to the House would make its way through both chambers in the normal way. The whole reason the Dems can’t Conference now is that to do so would mean presenting the same fixed Senate bill to both chambers and subjecting it to a Senate filibuster with 41 senators now opposed. Hence the end run with a second bill full of amendments, to be processed through reconciliation.
No. DeMint for Majority Leader
Raven (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 3:30PM EST (link)Starting this December. Earlier if possible.
We’ll worry about Presidential Nominees mid-’11
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
DeMint should be the GOP Senate leader
RealQuiet (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 9:21AM EST (link)He has been phenomenal in this HC debate. I hope he runs for the leadership position after the mid-terms. He fully deserves it. McConnell should step aside.
Great post, but I need a chalkboard to diagram this... nt.
LaborUnionReport (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 9:22AM EST (link)“I bring reason to your ears, and, in language as plain as ABC, hold up truth to your eyes.” Thomas Paine December 23, 1776
In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit.-Ayn Rand
LaborUnionReport.com
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News & Views on Today’s Labor Unions.
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Our job is cut out for us...
larryp Thursday, February 25th at 9:25AM EST (link)we will havet oi watch the Senate like a hawk now….
it's like this
partyof1 Thursday, February 25th at 9:29AM EST (link)but more complicated
http://www.discovery.org/blogs/discoveryblog/SFC%20Mark%20Flow%20Chart%209%2022%2009_Final.jpg
Reading this gives me such hope....
Brian Johnson (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 9:31AM EST (link)But then I think of the GOP meeting with Obama today, and I get a really, really queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. I just want the whole freaking thing to be shot in the head and buried, forever and ever. And it just doesn’t seem to happen.
Stealing from Rush’s observations of CPAC, I would like to offer up my thanks to Sen. Demint and all the other Republicans who have held fast against this monstrosity. While we get irritated at a lot of the GOP congresscritters for various reasons, there are some good people on the Hill that should be applauded. A year ago today, we felt like we were looking at the end of the US as we know it, and because the people yelled loudly and the GOP stood strong, the damage has been kept in check and real hope seems visible.
All that said, I *really* hope they don’t get taken in by this sham “summit” today.
Aren't you making this more complicated?
NotSoBlueStater (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 9:45AM EST (link)One wonders if all it takes to pass the senate bill is a promise to defund certain pieces (i.e., the Stupak-objectionable stuff) during reconciliation.
They will go down with this ship. They won’t put their hands up and surrender. There will be no white flag upon their door. They’re in love, and always will be.
-
The Conservative creed has never offered a life of ease without effort. Democracy is not for such people. Self-government is for those men and women who have learned to govern themselves. – Margaret Thatcher
I remember
cari Thursday, February 25th at 9:59AM EST (link)your post when Sen. DeMint made his objection- you titled it “The Best Christmas Gift Ever”. Thanks, once again Dan, for helping us navigate this messy process.
I wish DeMint were going to be at the Healthcare Sham-Wow Summitt today, for added clarity and spine. It’s hard to place a lot of trust in “Nerf Sword McConnell”. I think this bill has been dead since DeMint made his objection. Sen. Brown just sealed the deal.
Today’s summit is merely an attempt to shift blame for the failure of this bill to the Republicans. Honestly, how much blame is going to stick when the Republicans are standing up for the expressed desire of the majority of Americans? It is a trap- but one I feel will backfire on the Dems.
“The Lord is famous for the way He punishes the wicked in their own snares.” Psalms 9:16
Is there another way?
leeatmg Thursday, February 25th at 11:21AM EST (link)Couldn’t the Senate just try to pass the House version?
They'd need 60 yes votes to end debate
civil truth (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 11:47AM EST (link)…and if they had those votes before Brown, they would have approved the House version. So if they didn’t have those votes then, they certainly don’t have them now.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
writeblock...
revolutionary Thursday, February 25th at 11:46AM EST (link)5′s with the Barbour comment!
-For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the very definition of slavery.
Jonathan Swift-
-Majority rule only works if you’re also considering individual rights. Because you can’t have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.
Larry Flynt-
-I had reasoned this out in my mind, there was one of two things I had a right to, liberty or death; if I could not have one, I would have the other.
Harriet Tubman-
$1 Trillion Deficit-Reduction Idea
danielbdp (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 1:02PM EST (link)“The Lord is famous for the way He punishes the wicked in their own snares.” Psalms 9:16
Amen!
Mr. President: you can go today to your newly formed Deficit-Reduction Commission with a $1 Trillion deficit-reduction plan! And who said nothing good would come out of this Summit?
I loved the phrase "artistic assassination."
larueladue (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 4:09PM EST (link)It caused so many pleasing images to flash through my mind….. (Oops… back to reality…)
And it was so artistically elegant and subtle that the majority of the LSM didn’t even see it. If this works and this monstrosity is actually dead, there will be a lot of long, blank looks and “… oh… yeah… I get it…” moments in a lot of their lives.
Do away with the corpse of this bill
redneck_hippie (Diary) Thursday, February 25th at 8:32PM EST (link)just like they got rid of Jimmy Hoffa, Sr.
Stick it in a GM car and run it through the crusher.
That’s the Chicago Way.
I'm still confused
fredrik Thursday, February 25th at 10:10PM EST (link)Could someone please clarify a couple things?
First off: my understanding is that the House has to originate revenue bills. But right now, the House is contemplating passing the Senate healthcare bill (“ReidCare”). How does that work; is ReidCare not a revenue bill? And if so, what makes it that?
Second, on the technical aspects of the reconciliation. If I understand this post right, Senator Conrad is saying that you can’t pass a law A that changes another law B, until law B actually exists *as a law*. Which makes quite a bit of sense. Is Senator Conrad’s statement actually subject to dispute?
Third, could the Senate pass the House bill (“PelosiCare”) as-is if they had enough votes (60) to override a filibuster?
Fourth, I still don’t understand exactly what DeMint did. What mechanism did he use to prevent appointment of house-senate conferees? What made it possible to use that mechanism here, but not elsewhere?
DeMint A Hero - Again
conservativegeorgian43 (Diary) Friday, February 26th at 10:27AM EST (link)I had to read this story three times to follow the scenario, but once again DeMint is The Man. I wish he were majority leader instead of McConnell. Did anyone notice that he was the ONLY Senator at the 9.12 meeting in DC?