James Pethokoukis of Reuters is at it again, subversion-via-blog.
So in the little sit down with the President, the Chinese made clear they did not believe a word of the President’s promises about ObamaCare not adding to the deficit.
The Chinese asked uncomfortable questions about the cost of ObamaCare:
Guess what? It turns out the Chinese are kind of curious about how President Barack Obama’s healthcare reform plans would impact America’s huge fiscal deficit. Government officials are using his Asian trip as an opportunity to ask the White House questions. Detailed questions.
Boilerplate assurances that America won’t default on its debt or inflate the shortfall away are apparently not cutting it. Nor should they, when one owns nearly $2 trillion in assets denominated in the currency of a country about to double its national debt over the next decade.
Turns out that when you lie to everyone, no one believes you. Untrue claims that President Obama makes in the speeches to Joint Sessions of Congress about not adding to the deficit, making mystery cuts to Medicare, or not funding abortion, or not allowing illegal immigrants to gain access to his health care benefit, are actually listened to by other nations.
And the economic implications and the national security implications of a President who no one believes are profound, and none of them are good.
Sounds like the Chinese do not believe that a Democratic Congress and President Obama will do anything about the growing deficit. The only thing the Trillion-dollar President can do is spend more Trillions — first on the stimulus, then another trillion plus on health care. And because the world refuses to buy more of our debt, the Fed has printed (you guessed it) a trillion dollars in the last year to give to banks, with instructions to buy our T-Bills in our debt (rigged) “auctions.” This is how we are paying for our deficit, we are printing money. And our Trillion dollar President keeps spending.
The rational reaction of the Chinese (as opposed to the irrational action of spending a trillion dollars on health care) reminds me of a sign I saw at the 9/12 demonstration:

Steve Maley
KnightsofMalta
HIs words that don't mean what the people here think they mean,
Steph C (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 9:31AM EST (link)don’t play well in countries where politics has been developed into an art form, a rather useless art form, but still…
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
I wonder what "Uhh" translates to in chinese. nt
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 9:50AM EST (link)usque ad finem
5555555 nt
GCBWI (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:03PM EST (link)Now THAT was funny! 555555
Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:52PM EST (link)n/t
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
I have an idea...
larryp Wednesday, November 18th at 9:46AM EST (link)how ’bout cancelling the debt? It is not spent yet. Eventhe Tarp and the Stimulaus have funds left. Can’t some GoP sen or cong introduce a bill to cancel it? Or if it is allocated, do one oft hosereverse thinsthatthe govt does,.
i.e. a bill to de-allocate and return to the treasury those funds as exist in tarpand stim bills.
I think a lot of the GOP likes the power they are seeing and the full-employment of being a party out of power. Therefrore guarenteed elections for both sides. GOP always it seems can snatch defeat out of sure victory.
Wouldn't it be the irony of the century
mustango (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 10:10AM EST (link)if someday the Chinese intervene in the US to implement governmental restraint?
“I just miss — I miss being anonymous.” — Barack Obama
I fully sympathize, Mr. President. I miss you being anonymous too.
What a strange, terrifying thought. nt
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 10:16AM EST (link)usque ad finem
Serves the Chinese right, actually
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 10:13AM EST (link)Since they have meddled EXTENSIVELY in American electoral politics, in funding Clinton’s 1996 election, and (one has to believe) all the Democrat candidates since then, including Bambi, it serves them right if a Dem President + House + Senate runs the dollar into oblivion and wrecks the Chinese economy on the way down.
Not that I want that to happen. But the Chinese have some gall making objections at this stage of the game.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Why are the Chinese Communists
ss396 Wednesday, November 18th at 10:13AM EST (link)doing the job of the US mainstream media?
If you pay someone to sit on his butt, you can’t be surprised when he does.
China Playing A Dangerous Game
Spartan4Life (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 11:12AM EST (link)There is more here than meets the eye, methinks.
Obama Admin is right about one thing. If China continues to refuse to let market exchange rates determine the value of the Yuan, then we really have no other recourse than to let the dollar drop accordingly. If we don’t, then the US is not as competitive globally and evrybody shops in China. The risk to the Chinese is that we will pay back the money we borrowed from them at greatly lowered values.
Think of it this way. I borrow $500 bucks from you. Three years later I pay you back but that $500 is worth 40% less. Not as hard to pay it back then, right?
In any case, the Chinese are playing coy here. Some have described their monetary policy as a mercantile attack on the rest of the world. So, let’s not give them too much kudos. They are frying their own fish here.
Even the commies
michigan Wednesday, November 18th at 10:15AM EST (link)know that spending in the U.S. is totally out of control. Even thought they really know what Obamacare/Obamatopia is about and applaud; the core need to be repaid of debt makes them the capitalist that Barney Frank is not.
If and or when we default, the Chinese will propose as collateral, that they take Taiwan and select American properties in addition to incrementally infusing the U.S. with fifty million Chinese “immigrants” some to take positions of policy makers, to work and boost productivity. Obama says “great idea”!
Obama is forcing them to up the
Dan Perrin (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 8:20PM EST (link)Chinese to up the ante because his only plan is to massively devalue the dollar because the trillion dollar President cannot stop spending.
Floundering, like dying fish on a rock.
johnt Wednesday, November 18th at 10:48AM EST (link)That’s Axelrod , Emanuel. and The O.,with various other Dems, and a hapless & dishonest media.
Foreign affairs and policy are far more complicated than a domestic program driven by power and backed by news organizations.
Interestingly even there the Three Mouseketeers have bumbled and made a total mess, embarrassing in their overreach and clumsiness.
Wake up kids, there’s a world out there, one that doesn’t give a rat’s ass what the NY Times thinks. They’re so far in over their heads it’s terrifying.
“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville
and your point being...
again Wednesday, November 18th at 11:40AM EST (link)you have no ideas.
Wait until it becomes apparent that we need more stimulus. Or do you still have a job so screw everyone else?
Drop Dead, Commie (Clean Up on Aisle 3, Please!) (nt)
IJB Wednesday, November 18th at 11:49AM EST (link)I tend to remember
again Wednesday, November 18th at 11:53AM EST (link)the left getting a lot of abuse for entertaining French ideas, why is it ok that the Right taking cues from the true Communists in China.
Freedom Fries anyone?
About troll fricassee? nt
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 11:54AM EST (link)usque ad finem
So you get hit and come back for more. -nt-
Richard Mullins (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 11:56AM EST (link)Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter
Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
You're absolutely right
aesthete (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:00PM EST (link)We should leave agreeing with Communists to you guys.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Yeah, had enough stimulus yet? HAVE SOME MORE!! nt
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 11:51AM EST (link)usque ad finem
good question...
again Wednesday, November 18th at 11:59AM EST (link)stimulus that creates jobs or Bush tax cuts so we can go buy stuff that is, well, made in China.
Either way, it is/was paid for by the Chinese.
Create Jobs? What Jobs?
Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:57PM EST (link)All those fake non existent jobs in non existent congressional districts? Where is all that money they allegedly sent to these faux districts? You do realize unemployment is over 10% right.
Obama owns this mess. It was hurry up we have to do something NOW and that turned out to be a scam…a bit like you.
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
So you think you more than us
Richard Mullins (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 11:55AM EST (link)well take you Commie Talking points and leave us. We don’t need to need here the crap that release.
Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
Rmullins Pics
Rpmullins Twitter
Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
english please...
again Wednesday, November 18th at 12:01PM EST (link)just a discussion?
again
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:00PM EST (link)Please give us your age bracket (seriously). Don’t need exact age just a age to peg your generation.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
again
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:15PM EST (link)Courtesy of a reply please
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
so I can get a lecture
again Wednesday, November 18th at 12:24PM EST (link)Wise enough to ask questions before I shoot.
I have been around the block often enough to know that what we are seeing has happened more than once and we are all tools for being so gullible.
again
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:32PM EST (link)please answer the questions.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
No, you obviously haven't been...
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:32PM EST (link)Freedom Fries were a response to France vetoing a multi-national approach to Iraq via NATO. Democrats took heat from us for demagoguing that.
If you don’t like people sending money to China, convince people to buy American. Following your logic, the government should take everyone’s money so that people don’t have the chance to buy something made in China — silly.
We aren’t taking cues from Red China. We’re shocked that they are actually to the right of the United States administration — but not really surprised by their actions — since they have invested in us and recognize these policies as destructive to our economy.
Stimulus doesn’t create jobs. It trades 10 private sector jobs for a few (5? 6?) government jobs.
You’ve still got a lot to learn.
usque ad finem
and you are my mentor
again Wednesday, November 18th at 1:39PM EST (link)One of the few phrases my 4 year old daughter knows how to read is Made in China. She has seen it so many times that she finally asked what it said. Then we had to show her where it was on a map. I think she now equates it to Santa’s village or something. She can’t wait to go there.
Good luck selling American. It is an uphill fight and I am afraid a losing one. The best hope of that came when energy prices were so high and we could actually entertain the idea. Otherwise, in China today, even with the number of millionaires doubling every year, the average worker still makes pennies. We can’t compete with that for several decades.
And you made this one up:
“Stimulus doesn’t create jobs. It trades 10 private sector jobs for a few (5? 6?) government jobs.”
Meh, sue me. nt
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:43PM EST (link)usque ad finem
Courtesy if you please, again
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:42PM EST (link)answer the questions
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
Is the Mental Age or Chronological Age?
Achance (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:17PM EST (link)Either way, I’d say adolescence.
In Vino Veritas
s/b Is that ... Not enough coffee yet. nt
Achance (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:18PM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
One last time
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:28PM EST (link)again, please give us your age bracket, also:
Education: Public or private and highest level attained
Any special course of studies and/or degrees or awards received.
Any service to your country either military or service (Peace Corp. etc)
Any organizations you may presently be associated with
I ask these questions of you merely to see if you are qualified to speak of such matters as Economics, government, Constitutional matters et al.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
It is abundantly clear that despite not having a plumber's license
The_Gadfly (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:27PM EST (link)Joe clearly knows more about creating jobs in the US economy than either you or The Big 0.
The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. The problem in this instance is a propensity to spend money we don’t have. So the first step is to stop any more stimulus money from going out, and that includes the already passed trillion dollar albatross. Once we bring the patient out of cardiac arrest, we can start working on the weight problem.
Oh, and no, I lost my job and quite frankly I fault the losers who have been running the show since January 20. Absent that, my employer probably would have been able to continue their expansion plans without having to cut overhead jobs to pay for it.
and since I am a small business owner
again Wednesday, November 18th at 12:43PM EST (link)I probably don’t understand why banks are not funding anymore and are instead hoarding their money because….? Maybe because they are 1 step away from being insolvent? We are so far up the creek we only have ourselves to blame for having our heads in the sand for the past 20 years.
I know a few things about making jobs and recently a lot about sending folks home without one. It sucks. So I am sorry you were cut but thinking that we can blame anyone but ourselves is unrealistic.
as far as I know this is a blog and most peoples credentials are irrelevant. If you want “fact” go buy the right magazine that tells you what you want to hear.
You're not a small business owner. nt
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:47PM EST (link)usque ad finem
Please answer the questions
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:48PM EST (link)Your tone seems to have changed somewhat
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
small business owner since 1999
again Wednesday, November 18th at 1:01PM EST (link)Yes, the tone has changed. Why? Because we are so busy with take-downs and saying black is white and white is black that nothing gets accomplished. We just shoot ourselves in the foot.
Good, now let's talk about it......
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:08PM EST (link)no more take downs. Hit and run tactics never work, they merely inflame so you can understand some of the comments here.
I too have laid off employees and I agree it is not fun, small businesses usually have the added burden of knowing employee families as well as their own.
As far as your statements concerning stimulus funds go I am interested in hearing how you think it will benefit us in the long term. That is long term not short term.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
nicely put.
again Wednesday, November 18th at 1:29PM EST (link)Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure.
I don’t want to defend every penny of the stimulus, that would be foolish, the nature of it only attracts waste but there is some good.
Infrastructure examples
Roads, bridges, = faster transportation, lower cost
high speed internet = faster rate of business, lower cost
R & D = keep the brainpower and new technology in the US
energy research and discovery = security, lower cost
health = saves money in long term
there are some things the private sector cannot do on their own especially when we have to compete with Europe and China both who heavily, heavily subsidize their private sector long term growth.
Yes, those things are important
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:48PM EST (link)but let’s break them down. Let’s call projects for roads and bridges what was told to us at the beginning, “shovel ready projects”. The fact that shovel ready projects to spend the vast amoount allocated to them did not exist is well known. High speed internet is an ongoing project started during GWB’s reign, kinda like bringing broadband to rural areas like electricity was during the thirties. R&D is admirable, but the brainpower is not there anymore in the numbers required. This is the reason you see so many Asian, Indian and other nationalities filling our R&D slots. We need them. Energy research and discovery, well that would be the Dept of Energy balliwick. That was started in 1978 I believe by none other than Jimmy Carter to, now get this, wean us off foreign oil. Maybe they haven’t spent enough money to accomplish that task?
And finally, Health. All indications coming out of the CBO and GAO are that the health care plans proposed will not save or be deficit neutral. If someone from the government more especially a politician they are going to save money, hold onto your wallet. In the history of Washington there has never been a incident of a program the government institutes to save money has done that. So with the dismal track history of government run programs how can you be so sure this one will work?
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
but you don't advocate
again Wednesday, November 18th at 2:11PM EST (link)exporting our R & D do you? That is what we are doing. 1.
Because we can’t find the people to do it because they are too uneducated or 2. because foreigners cannot get a visa because it takes two years of red tape and 3. Cost. Private companies in the US cannot compete with foreign companies that are subsidized by their gov’ts. so they are forced to export more of those high paying positions overseas.
The most efficient and cost effective health care system is Single Payer. Politicians and economist on both sides have agreed on that. It will never happen here, not even a tiered system with the option. Too radical but it actually makes sense. Government should stay out of health care but so shouldn’t private insurance companies.
"Politicians and economists..."
aesthete (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:16PM EST (link)I don’t know where you’ve been looking, but economists are pretty split over the Democrat proposals. The split is somewhat predictable (Keynesians falling all over themselves to endorse the bill, and neo-Classicals rejecting it, generally), but interestingly enough, there is a majority against the current Dem proposal, even if some Keynesians do so because it isn’t radical enough.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
No I don't
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:41PM EST (link)We are not exporting R&D, the rest of the world has/is catching/caught up with us in the technology sector. We still lead the world in Pharmaceuticals, Medical advances and treatment. A lot of that has to do with imported intelligence, not exported. Foreigners can still get work visas through proper channels and it doesn’t take years.
Private companies can’t compete? Let’s use the heavily subsidized company Ford Motor Co. as an example. Ford compared to its two US based competitors that are heavily subsidized by the government is doing quite well. Heck I would say extremely well if you go on the fact that less than a year ago I bought shares of Ford for .56 cents/share. As of 30 seconds ago my .56 cents is worth $8.98. The latest safety ratings out for all cars sold in US has five (5) Ford products in the top ten and none for Toyota. So I guess Toyota needs some more subsidies. BTW, Ford told the government to p*ss off, we don’t want your money.
How do you know a single payer system is the most cost effective? Where is the track record of a single payer system in this country to compare that notion to? We have to go offshore for comparisons, to Canada and Great Britajn. First, I have to tell you that I live in a border town with Canada and have for my entire life. I have watched the CBC and read their papers form time to time as well as spoken to residents there as friend and on a business level.
At best you can consider the Health systems in both countries as First Responders. They ration care to cut costs. End of Story.
Is that what you really want for us and your family? I can’t entrust that much authority in an entity that is willing to ration care when they deem the costs prohibitive. I have NEVER heard or experienced in my 16 years of dealing with health care companies of doing what the left says is prolific, that is denying care, rationing services, or kicking someone out because they cost too much.
Have you?
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
Seriously, it's fine...
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:52PM EST (link)Just admit your age, it’s fine to admit that you don’t know everything. That takes a loooong time. How does the old saw go, “if you’re not a liberal at 20, you don’t have a heart; if you’re not conservative at 30, you don’t have a brain.”
Me personally, I never did have a heart, but I understand that’s sort of normal for humans.
usque ad finem
OK if you won't start, I will
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:00PM EST (link)I am a small business owner.
I am closer to retirement age than puberty
Public schools through soph year in college
Took courses in Economics and engineering
Served in US Navy on a gunboat
worked at a job and raised a family for 17 years before starting my own company 16 years ago.
There, wasn’t that easy? Now your turn.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
Doubtful
billyd (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:02PM EST (link)I find it highly doubtful that you would be a small business owner, and then become pro stimulus money. Why in the world would you be pro government spending and anti tax cut when you are a business owner? Would a tax cut let you keep some of your employees, or would a few million to study STD’s? You tell me.
November 2nd 2010. What are you doing today to improve your tomorrow?
You ask why?
again Wednesday, November 18th at 1:17PM EST (link)Sure I get taxed up the gazoo. Do I like it – of course not. But I can acknowledge that it is a fact of life.
But you know what my biggest expense is? Taxes, I wish. Health Care hands down. $548 per individual per month , $1704 per family per month- went up 28% this year. I was going to switch but the other plan went up 33%. Who here, can raise their prices 33% unless you were not protected by the gov’t. It doesn’t make sense. I can’t budget for that. A business tax cut? Thanks but it reminds me of those $400 check the gov’t sends every so often. Too little to mean anything to a non Fortune 500 company.
The gov’t biggest screw-up was not getting a good deal on the TARP money. Not that it should not have happened. The system is very much on life support – still. You can’t let it die now.
So you are upset
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 1:24PM EST (link)with health care costs and aren’t we all, but what makes you think the government will “protect” you from higher health care costs? Remember, the government has no money of its own, only the money it gets from us, the tax payers.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
the gov't won't protect me
again Wednesday, November 18th at 1:45PM EST (link)but it might, I say that with caution, give me the choice of choosing a plan that more accurately represents the cost.
And no, the gov’t could have made money if they negotiated better terms with the bailed out companies. a 0% interest rate to a bank so they can turn around and charge whatever they want to consumers is no way to help the average joe.
But you forget......
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:13PM EST (link)The government is not supposed to be a lending institution. That being said when Chrysler received its bailout in the 80′s the money came without strings. Chrysler successfully fulfilled it’s obligation in short order and paid the government back with interest. Lee Iaocca went to Washington, got the money, turned Chrysler around and paid the government back, end of story.
Today, we have the government loaning the money in exchange for stock ownership. That is not a loan, that is a purchase. Strings. You have the Car Czar ordering a CEO to resign, blaming him for GM’s woes even though he had only been in place for less than a year. Strings.
Strings come with everything the government does for you. Don’t buy health insurance under the Pelosi plan and you will go to jail. Strings. or get fined. Strings. Make the rich pay for everything? If as a small business owner incorporated as a S-Corp you are well aware that company revenues roll into you personal income for taxing purposes. Pay yourself 100k per year and roll business profits into that your business profits only need to be 400k and you get another 5% tax on top for health insurance. As a small business owner you must also realize that the 400k reported by the business is phantom money, it does not exist for you to take as pay increase, business expansion, employee hiring and everything else. It is a number that exists even though most of it may be eaten up as principal payments on a loan or as an asset purchase.
Where is the fairness here? In my opinion, Health care costs after the government seeks to make it fair will cost me more than it does today through moving the costs directly from health care to a tax burden by another name. That my friend is the only way they will save Health care costs by diverting the costs elsewhere. Bottom line……. I pay more and so will you.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
Again. Are you aware that Tort Reform in Texas and Mississippi
Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 3:27PM EST (link)has lowered insurance costs close to 30%? And doctors are lining up to practice there unlike the doctor shortages almost every where else.
Imagine if and end to mandates and the ability to compete across state lines were included with that. The type of health care that Obama is trying to foist on us is failing every where else. Why not go with something that has shown evidence at working.
Also I have to say that this Health Care legislation is really not about Health Care, it’s about power and control.
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
Again... Why?
billyd (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 3:29PM EST (link)Why do you accept high taxes as a way of life? Why? Nothing can’t be changed. You just have to want to do what it takes to change it. As far as your healthcare expenses go. Perhaps you could look at a strategy similar to what Whole Foods provides. A plan that his a high deductable. The first $2000 comes out of the employees pocket prior to the insurance company ever paying a dime. To offset that expense, whole foods gives their employees a $2000 “bonus” that can be used for paying that insurance deductiable.
Now, i once again call your bluff in that your healthcare expenses went up 25 to 33% this year. Perhaps you could tell us what company that was, and we can all look at the 3% profit they reported last year. You see, the healthcare industry is a public company, listed on the stock exchange, and thus must report all their financials for their stockholders to see.
Why do you think the government can fix a problem that you can’t fix yourself?
November 2nd 2010. What are you doing today to improve your tomorrow?
I didn't say my taxes were high
again Wednesday, November 18th at 3:38PM EST (link)Oxford: 25%
Aetna: 33%
Thanks for the suggestions – we are considering doing that. It is also a question of building loyalty and a good working environment.
Again... You really should try the approach Whole Foods used.
billyd (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 3:57PM EST (link)Sorry, My mistake. I took, “I get taxed up the gazoo” to mean your taxes were high.
As far as profit margins last year for Oxford and Aetna.
I believe Oxford is a member of United Healthgroup
Profitability
Profit Margin (ttm): 4.20%
Operating Margin (ttm): 7.36%
Aetna:
Profitability
Profit Margin (ttm): 3.87%
Operating Margin (ttm): 6.76%
Now if they are running at such low margin percentages, how in the world could your insurance plan increase by 25 to 33% while still offering the same coverage? Seems strange doesn’t it?
By the way… As far as employees being happy, and loyal to their company. Try going to a whole foods store. The people there love it, and their turnover is insanely low.
November 2nd 2010. What are you doing today to improve your tomorrow?
Link
billyd (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:01PM EST (link)Again… Here’s a link to the WSJ editorial that John Mackey wrote.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html
If you are serious about fixing your own problems, you may want to reach out to Mr. Mackey with a call or e-mail.
November 2nd 2010. What are you doing today to improve your tomorrow?
I'm told that the credit reports
Dan Perrin (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 8:24PM EST (link)are so bad these days that the pool of folks you can lend to has shrunk
You need to talk with an independent
realskinny (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:22PM EST (link)agent. Last year I found out premiums are lower for individuals in KS and MO than the normal employee’s share of group policies through an employer. You could give them a $500 a month raise and let them buy their own insurance. This puts them in charge of their own lives and saves you a lot of headaches.
Unless you’re a government contractor or supplier I can’t see how you could think a third “stimulus” would do you any good. Government spending cannot stimulate an economy. It can only stimulate government. Think about it. If a government could spend money and grow the economy, no country on Earth would ever have a bad economy. All government funds must first be taken from the people, or borrowed and put the people in debt. All government spending, whether called “stimulus” or anything else, just substitutes a politician’s decision on how it is spent for that of the population from whom the funds were taken.
There is no reason to think we need to reinvent the wheel on economics. This has all been done before. Centuries of history show thrifty government results in prosperity and domestic happiness. Profligate government results in poverty and misery. The larger the government, the less room for human freedom. and vice versa. All Americans used to understand this before the advent of socialist education and the purposeful dumbing down of our progeny.
The Fed doesn't lend money?
again Wednesday, November 18th at 2:32PM EST (link)When the economy is going to hell overnight they better be ready to lend money. They do every day.
All the nonsense about firing, bonuses etc is political and just answers to peoples anger. It does nothing but give us something to relate to. We don’t understand derivative swaps.
I would be more than happy to jump into the next tax bracket. Bring it on. In the meantime, I pay my share.
The Pelosi plan of requiring health insurance, like auto insurance is a compromise and a bad one. The thing is we already pay for all of the uninsured and the cost are extraordinary. I can’t wait to hear your response but the best health care system in the world is single payer. It would/could never happen here, but politicians and economist on both sides tend to agree. Even a tiered system with a private option and single payer would be better than the nonsense we have now.
Fine!
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:52PM EST (link)What about Tort Reform? What about allowing individuals to deduct 100% of their health care costs, insurance included? What about allowing Health Care Insurance providers to offer plans across state lines? What about emliminating the waste in Medicare and Medicade? You see, the government has control over all the these things and it would not cost any of us a red nickel for them to remedy any or all of them. Cost savings? How about $60 billion/year in Medicare alone?
The government is setting us all up here on this. First using the Commerce Clause they shut off the ability of Health Insurance from crossing state lines artificially creating a shortage in qualified plans and helping to drive up costs. Then they turn around and say Health Insurance costs too much, so we are going to give you Health Insurance one size fits all for everyone.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
OK, now you're in the open.
realskinny (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 2:56PM EST (link)You say the costs are extraordinary for the uninsured? Just how would these costs be lowered by giving them insurance so they would want even more services? People on both sides agree single payer is best? Maybe you could name some of these people. Where have you been? Single payer systems are collapsing everywhere. The Obamacrat’s bills will raise costs, premiums, taxes and decrease quality, availability and affordability. For this privilege we’ll get a bill for $2 trillion we don’t have. As a bonus we lose the last semblance of our free, self-governing republic. But something tells me that wouldn’t bother you.
In July 2009 your talking points
again Wednesday, November 18th at 3:28PM EST (link)were repudiated by 13 Republicans voted to allow Single Payer health care systems to be run on a state level, they are:
Rep. John Kline (Minnesota)
Rep. Tom Petri (Wisconsin)
Rep. Buck McKeon (California)
Rep. Peter Hoekstra (Michigan)
Rep. Mike Castle (Delaware)
Rep. Mark Souder (Indiana)
Rep. Vernon Ehlers (Michigan)
Rep. Judy Biggert (Illinois)
Rep. Todd Platts (Pennsylvania)
Rep. Joe Wilson (South Carolina)
Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (Washington)
Rep. Tom Price (Georgia)
Rep. Brett Guthrie (Kentucky)
You pay taxes? then you pay for all treatment that someone should have received on a typical visit but now are getting when they roll into the emergency room when it’s too late and are charged $5000 a day to lie in a bed.
Makemyday: I agree with your first paragraph and some of those have been in one version or another of some of these bills. My point is that they don’t go far enough. If you are going to break the eggs then you might as well do it right. It bill will get watered down due to pressure from the insurance companies protecting their turf and it may not be enough.
What does a one size fits all system mean?
I don't believe a single
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 3:57PM EST (link)one of those items has been addressed in either the House version or the Senates vapor bill. In fact, instead of modifying tort reform to decrease costs, they sneaked through a provision that allows attorneys even broader latitudes for law suits.
Let’s also talk insurance companies and their “massive profits” we have been told they are getting. It has been stated recently that the Health Insurance industry is I think it was 35th most profitable enterprise in America amassing a whopping 2.5% profit margin. Where is the outrage for that 2.5% coming from? H*ll, if your business ran on a 2.5% profit margin, would you even bother? Me, I think I could find some start up bank that would pay me that much for opening a checking account with them. So what is the real concern here? Is Health Care costs so out of whack because insurance companies make grotesque profits? Or is it elsewhere? You say we pay for the non-insured showing up at emergency rooms. I have it on good authority, you see, as I am a service provider for ALL the major hospital systems in my neck of the woods that a few indigents get care they cannot pay for. But the rest do make payments to cover the cost of their stay either with or without insurance. Now, why do those people not have insurance? Broadly speaking you can say part is choice (I don’t need to spend money on that) and partly because it was forced (I lost my job).
In either case there is a certain amount of personal choice in the matter. Together, they make up 17% of the users of our health care system in America today. I know through cost sifting care for those without insurance is transferred over to those of us with insurance. But of that group a certain percentage will find themselves gainfully employed and no longer unisnsured either through a company sponsored program or on their own.
That’s 17% of the population not receiving the same kind of health care that you and I receive today. Why is the government willing to blow up a system that 83% of the people are covered and satisfied with to cover an additional 17%. That being said the plan coming out of the house will not cover all of those in the 17% bracket.
What say you?
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
not talking about profits
again Wednesday, November 18th at 4:11PM EST (link)but savings.
1. executive compensation
2. 30% administration costs
I will sound like a democrat drone but:
why does our coverage cost twice as much as other countries for less covered and inadequate care?
Why should we accept high deductables just to lower our costs?
Even though I pay higher premiums, why do I pay more out of pocket as well?
Answer: across the board higher survival rates. nt
mschmitt (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:15PM EST (link)usque ad finem
Oh boy...
billyd (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:20PM EST (link)So those are your 2 problems? Executive compensation and administrative costs? Are you sure?
If either of those were things that could be cut by one company so that they could provide a cheaper yet equal plan, they would. Why? Simple. They would corner the market. That’s how the free market works. The person that can provide the best product at the cheapest cost wins.
Why wouldn’t a guy like George Soros not start his own insurance company, cut administration costs down to 15%, and then offer a plan that is 10% cheaper than his competition and yet brings in double the profits?
And high deductables are there to ensure that people don’t abuse the system. If you have a high deductable, you have personal accountability. Are you really going to go to the ER for that cold when it will cost you $500?
November 2nd 2010. What are you doing today to improve your tomorrow?
OK, before I go
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:20PM EST (link)You can take the 30% overhead AND executive compensation out and have all the people employed by insurance work for free. That amount still won’t add up to the savings that can be had through just Tort reform and cutting the waste out of Medcare. That leaves three other items the government controls held in reserve to cover any supposed savings you will get by killing the insurance industry.
Now, I must go and it HAS been a pleasure!
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
What Health Care System is that Again?
Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:51PM EST (link)Which Single Payer Health Care System is that Again? The one you say is the best in the world?
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
I agree.
again Wednesday, November 18th at 3:43PM EST (link)All of these things need to be used to make the best bill.
Again, I have to go!
makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 4:11PM EST (link)Thanks for coming out of your shell to discuss the issues. I don’t think you swayed anyone here nor did we sway you, but there is hope! We have the same problems you and I but have wholly different views how to resolve them.
Please stay with RedState and bring discussion with you. Remember, short sharp stabs of sarcasm will bring a disproportionate amount of scorn and ultimately “The Stick”. Look to leftylurker and librick for guidance in commenting here.
Take care and hope your business fortunes turn around soon!
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
I was just going to say the same thing.
again Wednesday, November 18th at 4:16PM EST (link)I have to run.
I enjoyed it.
Good luck to you.
another day.
again Thursday, November 19th at 9:44AM EST (link)Makemyday:
I missed some of your comments from yesterday and really can’t let them go. Regarding your thought on gov’t stimulus for R and D – do you really believe that the rest of the world has caught up to us, except for health research and therefore we shouldn’t put money into it? Really? I would hate to gamble on that one and see how it turns out in 20 years. China, Europe and India will sure clean us out. That is a deadend. Is there waste, or some things we don’t all like, sure, I don’t like that it cost $400 to deliver a gallon of gas to Afghanistan but we do it because it is the right thing to do.
As far a importing the brains to do our work because the kids here can’t get their heads out of their arse; We are sponsoring a legal immigrant in our office, going on 30 months and 10 grand in fees and complete utter nonsense. He can’t travel home to see sick relatives because he is mid-process and there is a chance he won’t be let back in. This has got to change.
And finally the 17 million you claim are uninsured. Most figures are double that but I will give it to you. These folks are middle class taxpayers. They are not sloth. They are not on MedicAid. They don’t have MediCare. They are the ones that fall through the cracks when they lose their job or are denied coverage when a medical emergency wipes them out. Why let them go bankrupt over a medical condition? Let them get coverage, go on paying their bills, paying their taxes, get on with life. It is cheaper in the long run for everyone.
With the size company I have I would never be mandated to have to cover my employees and I don’t think we should be mandated, but those people need an affordable option. I don’t need to tell you walmart’s strategy of counseling their employees on getting gov’t coverage instead of paying for it themselves: we already pay for it. I agree with Tort reform. absolutely but there is a lot more to it.
If anyone truly thinks that a 2.5% profit margin is what these companies really make you are kidding yourselves. If you think they even closely resemble what a small business goes through you are seriously mistaken. You might as well be a lobbiest for big business. They live in a completely different tax structure with many more options than my s-corp nonsense.
later.
One Thing I Know...Government "Jobs" Don't Work
Spartan4Life (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 9:22PM EST (link)It is a zero sum game.
One person gets a job and the money has to be extracted from the economy somewhere else to pay for it. Creating or “saving” government jobs is a recipe for long term stagnation. We need to get on a growth footing by stimulating our private sector economy. Cut spending, dammit.
That is all.