I face them all the time on Dailykos, yet I’ve persisted in writing dozens of diaries and thousands of comments where I take issue with the truisms you describe. And at Dailykos I’ve long said there are something like 10 to 40% of the users who are oppen to discussion.

The range of percentages are based on specific topic, and the luck of the draw. There are many paradoxes at play.

Jews fear autocracy, in religion or in government. There is no chief rabbi, and most Jews love a good argument with someone who is open to all sides of the discussion. But you are right about the effect of the “brainwashing” of advanced liberal education.

I was lucky to have studied graduate psychology at a time when, at least at that institution, there was no censorship. We were exposed to some uncomfortable realities that didn’t fit anyones idea of political correctness. But part of that ethos of open value free science was atheism.

And this is what the choice has become for so many. The Right has become intertwined with literal christian belief. So while you are frustrated by a liberal being blinded by his Political Correctness, liberals are frustrated by someone who asserts an ultimate authority in the word of God, encompassed in the holy bible.

I guess one takes their choice of what tribe to join, knowing that there is a sacrifice of some aspect of thinking in either one. So we end up choosing those who we are most comfortable with.

Fortunately, I have a few good friends who are the most evangelical of Christians, and one who is a mormon. Both of whom I’m able to talk politics in a way that transcends our differences.

It’s a shame that’s so rare.

“I’m tired of listening to sniping remarks from people who, when confronted with FACTS, spout off, rant, rave, and shout, because they cannot debate logically since they have no leg upon which to stand.
I’m tired of righteous-indignance.
I’m tired of not being respected for having an opinion with facts to back it up, just because my opinion may not be that of the media-majority at the moment.
I am tired of the politics-of-exclusion; that being: the excluded are the groups that are deemed unworthy, not politically correct enough, or not the trendy cause of celebrities like Barbra Streisand, Robert Redford or Oliver Stone, and similar “well-credentialed”, media outlets who have annointed themselves as the social conscience for the world determining what we should eat, the music we listen to, the clothes we should wear, and the morals of the shows and movies we see,. Etc.”

This transcends ethnicity, region, and any other demographic. It is the tragic reality of what today passes for discourse with wide swaths of the Left, even those we love and with whom we disagree. I couldn’t agree more that it bodes poorly for the future. I’m particularly bummed in that I just spent a weekend with an older woman and younger man who are close friends, and they seemed to have been just released from a re-education camp. I heard nothing but regurgitated slogans and not an iota of original thought from otherwise intelligent people. This has come to be the norm. God help us.

There are theological reasons, too, as NYRep points out, for being Democrat, but there are just as many, if not more, for being Republican.

There are also more recent political reasons, such as, to take only a couple examples, Truman’s recognition of Israel and a perceived (and sometimes real) anti-Jewish bias among certain Republicans (e.g., Sec. James Baker III).

But the main reason, I think, that so many Jews are liberals goes back about 200 years to the French Revolution. Before that time, there were only orthodox Jews (and they weren’t called orthodox – just Jews). There were different groups with varying customs and ideas, but they were all in practice orthodox. With the French Revolution came “liberation” – the Jews were to be treated as everyone else. It wasn’t only to do them justice, after a fashion, but also to remove their Jewishness and make them citizens like all others.

It was legally a liberation, but it was also terribly destructive. A great number of Jews wanted nothing more than the acceptance of the European societies that had spurned them, and in order to gain that acceptance, they tossed away as much of the Jewish tradition as possible in order to live like their neighbors. Reform Judaism was born with the goal of creating a kind of Christian Judaism. In Germany, there were even Reform synagogues that held services on Sundays, and it is still common to find organs in Reform synagogues. In some Reform synagogues, they do not wear skullcaps, and much of the service is not in Hebrew but in the native tongue of the place. And many Jews simply abandoned the synagogue and the tradition entirely.

In this way, many Jews became children of the French Revolution and followed its ideals. Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite means more now to most Jews than the Torah and Talmud (if indeed they know them at all). If they quote Torah, they especially like lines like, “Justice, justice shall ye pursue…” and then immediately interpret this to mean the contemporary brand of social justice (rather than the more obvious answer: following the Law given to Moses).

You may find this Wikipedia entry helpful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_and_the_Jews

Such is my idea on the subject. I’ve read only a few books and articles. There are other views, though, from more educated persons. For instance, some say that because Jews have been oppressed so long, their sympathies are naturally with others who are oppressed, leading them to lean to the political Left. But any full explanation, I believe, has to go back centuries and consider the course of European history.

The only Jewish people who vote for the GOP are those who tend to be very orthodox, concerned about Isreal and realize that the GOP would never abandon our ally Isreal. These Jewish Americans and then Jewish American who live in Isreal always for the GOP in large numbers. Unfortunately for the GOP, Isreal is not a big issue for the vast majority of Jewish Americans.

I never claimed to be an expert on social migration of any individuals or groups of people so I am unable to address your statistical and demographic questions.

I will say, that from my perspective, every group of people that has emigrated to the United States of America, has, for one reason or another done it for some political/religious reason and/or upheaval in their own homelands. From the Pilgrim and Puritans, to the Irish, the Russians who wanted to escape the Tsars, to the Cuban refugees who end up on the shores of our southern states, the U.S. of A. has always been the place that people look to for their survival.

As far as which politically leftist (or rightist for that matter) Jews that are practicing or not, I have no demographic information on that either, and I fail to see a connection between where someone is from and/or if they are actively practicing any religion at all.

Perhaps you are right in that the ideal of the commune in the 1960′s was probably no better demonstrated than in the kibbutzim in Israel. It was a wonderful building block to making a desert bloom. And that might have been some kind of poetic ideal in the eyes of the flower children, who, now the establishment, might be disillusioned to find out that sometimes, although that might work on a smaller scale, once population grows, it becomes necessary to change and adapt to the needs of larger groups people.

If anyone has ever experienced working in a small start-up company, it’s easy to see how things can be more casual, people are extremely dedicated to just the survival of it and their dream. Rules can be more lax because those involved all know each other well, they probably knew each other for a long time before venturing into business together. Each person has a specific place, and is aware of the dependence upon each other for the company’s survival. Yet, as a business grows, it becomes necessary to add people to do jobs there is no time for the original visionaries to do. People enter into the company who are not necessarily as well-known to the builders of the original company. They are people who have their own agenda – not necessarily the dreams of the original visionaries, but, those who have dreams of their own, and just need a job. The company grows, and there ends up a need for standardization of rules to manage the greater numbers. Thus the bureaucracy begins. And if the company is to be successful in longevity, it must learn to adapt its management for larger groups of people.

I think there is a lesson to be learned from those who have lived with a large-scale leftist government of socialism, found a means to escape it, and given the opportunity – chose the exact opposite.

I’m no political genius – but my thoughts from just observation are – if the leftist socialist/communist government is so great and works so well, why have so many people left it to come HERE?

I think that pretty much sums it up for MOST people who vote Democrat, Jew and Gentile alike. They don’t follow politics, they don’t pay attention to the issues at hand, they just blindly vote for the one with the (D) on the ballot because they think the Republicans are just a bunch of rich, white, racist, bigoted, homophobe meanies. None of this based on any particular FACTS or life experiences, mind you.

I was reading through this earlier and I had a couple of questions that end up being quasi-statements – and I was wondering if you could sort them out.

The first is that it’s always appeared to me that ethnically-Jewish immigration to the U.S. was not random-selection but was driven by a particular huge political event in a particular place at a particular time.

The second is how Israel’s image has changed drastically in the eyes of domestic leftists – and thus, by default, in the eyes of many ethnically-Jewish Americans.

(And I’m using the term “ethnically-Jewish” since I really don’t know how to separate those who came from European Jewish stock by bloodline and those who are religiously-practicing Jews – since as far as I can tell most very-leftist Jewish-Americans are not practicing religious Jews. But you tell me.)

The first question is, to what degree was the American population of Jewish immigrants concentrated on central/eastern Europe in the 1920s, particularly into the New York metropolitan area? It seems that a great deal of the ethnically-Jewish immigration at the time came from the post-WW1 chaos of central and eastern Europe – and that much of this actually involved people who were politically communists and who were fleeing the suppression of communist uprisings in places like Germany and the defeat of the Red Army invasions in places like Poland. If the base immigrant population was over-supplied with fleeing communists, the starting-base for their political affiliations in the U.S. would be far-leftist.

A good example here might be Senator Bernie Sanders (I-LunarOrbit). His (Jewish) parents came to Brooklyn from Poland during the 1920s. Their background never seems to be discussed – but given the time period and his political views (and regular whinings about how downtrodden his parents were), they very likely were communists and they may have been fleeing after Pilsudski’s surprise victory over the Red Army at Warsaw.

The second question is, how much have the big changes in Israeli society in recent years soured domestic leftists of all stripes – even for those who are of Jewish descent? It wasn’t that long ago that Israel was a leftist darling country – mainly because in the early years there was a big showy effort to have agriculture collectivized (the kibbutzim) and to build socialism. It seems that a watershed event was the mass immigration (late 70s and early 80s) of Soviet Jewish “refuseniks” (Natan Sharansky is one of the best-known of the “refuseniks.”) I can remember when it was thought that if several hundred thousand (a million immigrated to Israel) Soviet Jews came to Israel, coming from communism they would pull Israel even more to the left. But in a preview of what would happen when communism collapsed in eastern Europe, people who had lived under that screwy system wanted no part of it – anywhere. This actually pulled Israel to the right. Something like 1/6th of Israel’s present population was born in the old Soviet Union; in Israel, there are Russian-language television channels and you see Russian-language signs all over Tel Aviv.

Of course, as Israelis lost interest in building socialism and grew interested in building bio-tech start-ups, Israel inevitably lost its glow for domestic leftists. Naturally, those of us on the right regard this as smart and good progress – and indeed, I can recall the first time I rolled into Tel Aviv (after dark) from the airport and found myself wondering it I was on I-405 in Orange County.

A lot do vote dems and but I dont know if non connection to Israel is because of it. One of my fathers friends fought in YK war and he votes dem. You wouldnt be able to tell me he didnt care for Israel. So people connected with the state vote dem.

I blame the schools, quite honestly. I dont know the numbers but a high percentage of Jews have received higher level education. Of that number, probably most of the females and a good chunk of the males go into liberal arts programs. The male chunk isnt quite as important as the female chunk. Because a lot of liberal arts programs are over the top crazy left, you get a lot of people drinking the kool aid. So you have a lot of Jewish women who are at least sympathetic to the dems point of view. Jewish moms tend to stay home with the kids…

Also, Id be interested to see the numbers of who voted for who broken down into occupation and then cross referenced against race. A lot of Jews tend to work in the legal and financial sectors. Im willing to bet that if someone broke down the numbers this way you would find that the occupational voting habits tended to mirror the Jewish voting habits.

I think this topic raises some interesting questions. To me the question of interest isnt why American Jews vote dem, but why do American Jews, for lack of a better term, vote against, or with discounted weighting towards, Israel?

You should put that in a diary with an appropriately compelling title about Jewish/American political thought. It’s great stuff.

A few anecdotal examples:

1. I attended a party at a neighbor’s house before the election, and a passing comment from someone who (was brought up in an Orthodox Jewish home ) expressed his dismay at how the Bush administration, and Republicans in general, would not take responsibility for the current (at that time) mortgage crisis.
I mentioned how the seeds of the mess were sown in the Clinton administration, and cited an article in the NY Times from years ago – about how this wonderful new program of making mortgages available to lower income families was being backed and pushed by Pres. Clinton, (and how ACORN was lobbying for this). I said that at the end of the article, it was actually mentioned that in economically good times, this would not be a problem, but if the economy were to fall on hard times, a government bailout might be necessary. Years later, we are living that very event.

He started out with his finger pointing in my face, and the yelling at me as he wagged that finger at me, that I was ridiculous for suggesting that a program would be developed that would give loans to people who could never pay them back.
Annoyed, I told him ,first, to get his finger out of my face, and then to go and do some research starting with the article that I had cited, and when he knew what he was talking about to get back to me. I have not heard a word.

2. In chatting with a relative about her election choice, I was mentioning how Ahmadinijad stayed happily in a hotel owned by Penny Pritzker when he was here in New York to address the UN, and how she was working for Obama. I mentioned Obama’s connections to domestic terrorists, and military people who don’t consider Israel a country worth their time.

The response I got was “Well, I don’t know a lot about politics, I just know.. Republicans are for the rich people, so I’m a Democrat.”
When i reiterated the concerns I had, and explained the ownership of many of the Fortune 500 companies, and the pro-extremist company HE keeps, and how it can eventually come to those with the oil money saying, “sever ties with Israel, because your economy depends on us completely now.” this was the exchange:

“The administration will HAVE to support Israel.”
“Why do they HAVE to?”
“Because they do.”

Honestly, this answer not only annoyed me, it terrified me. Once we become complacent in believing that there is no possibility of another holocaust, we are doomed to be on the track of exactly that. And this time, it won’t stop with just the Jews.

3. Other relatives, who have Israeli flags hanging all over their home and who have made many trips there – and have considered buying real estate there, are talking about issues like abortion/pro-choice.
I said, ” I understand your point of view- and I’m not going to debate whether I agree or not on that, however, that is not now, and will not be an issue this administration is going to have to deal with – so why would that be a factor in your election choice?

No answer. Blank stare.

4. My oldest daughter is 13 years old, and quite politically savvy on her own (and, truth be told -is MORE conservative than I am). She does research, she reads, she questions, and when she talked to her friends she asked them,

“if you were old enough and could vote, who would you vote for?”

She asks them why and is well-prepared to explain how and why she has come to support her candidate.
The response she gets, which is invariably a sound-bite parroting their parents, is, “Bush is an idiot,” or “The war is stupid.” When she pointed out it was not Bush who was running, or that the war wasn’t going to end because of Obama, he was just going to send the troops to Afghanistan, they look at her like she’s crazy, and walk away. It’s as though the people she talks to have been through an indoctrination and are no longer capable of thought, or forming investigative questions. She comes home from school frustrated, because she’d really like to hear a logical explanation for WHY people, including her teachers, were supporting Obama – but never received one.

It just has seemed like the Democrat party, in their quest to become so absolutely and politically correct, has become quite smug, and holds to a holier-than-thou attitude in everything from not letting the kids in school run in the playground (but yes, they should get at least an hour of exercise every day) since they might fall, to telling me what I can put in my kids’ lunches.

Frankly, I’m tired of the politics of “tolerance-of-everyone- except for- people-who-disagree-with-us.” The left-wing rebels of the 1960′s have now become the establishment, and are squelching the very methods they themselves used to be heard, to express their dissatisfaction, and make the changes they wanted. Absolute power corrupts absolutely?

I’m tired of listening to sniping remarks from people who, when confronted with FACTS, spout off, rant, rave, and shout, because they cannot debate logically since they have no leg upon which to stand.
I’m tired of righteous-indignance.
I’m tired of not being respected for having an opinion with facts to back it up, just because my opinion may not be that of the media-majority at the moment.
I am tired of the politics-of-exclusion; that being: the excluded are the groups that are deemed unworthy, not politically correct enough, or not the trendy cause of celebrities like Barbra Streisand, Robert Redford or Oliver Stone, and similar “well-credentialed”, media outlets who have annointed themselves as the social conscience for the world determining what we should eat, the music we listen to, the clothes we should wear, and the morals of the shows and movies we see,. Etc.
I am tired of those that are self-righteous and feel that they are “more civilized” than anyone else so therefore they think they have the right to impose their values as the only correct ones.

I am tired, and I am scared and have anxiety attacks now.

Each night when I put my head on my pillow, during those agitated moments before sleep comes and I stop thinking about what I have to do and where I have to be, those terrifying, panic-making fears find a way to surface to my consciousness.

All their lives, I’ve taught my daughters to work hard because in this country they have the opportunities to be anything they want to be regardless of ethnicity, gender, or economic background. But now, I have great fears about those opportunities disappearing because of the influence of extremists who have no respect for any lives other than their own. I’m not just talking about the fears of the average parent that they will not get into the schools/programs that will help their future, or that there will not be money to pay for their needs. I am not talking about the fear that they might not get to be what they wanted when they grow up.

I fear they won’t be able to grow up at all.

My horrifying dreams are sounds of them screaming out “MOMMY WHERE ARE YOU???” in terror and panic, and visions of them reaching out for me as they are being brutally taken from me, or tortured.
My nightmares are filled with sights of their hollow faces, emaciated bodies and tortured eyes.
My terrors are for their very survival merely because they were born into the Jewish faith and that they are now potentially seen by the world as expendable.

How well would you sleep if you lived in similar fears for your own children and saw THEIR faces in dreams like that?

Remember the holocaust. It did happen. It can happen again. This time It can happen to all of us.

I’ll continue to mock you for being a lib, but that’s not what this was about

For the record, there is a multiplicity of views among Jews themselves as to what is best for our people and for Israel. And no, I’m not necessarily talking about Obama or about the war in Gaza at present. My only point is that there are a few different points of view here and it’s incredibly hard to confine the debate to one particular issue, especially when there is disagreement over that very issue.