On Building the Movement – Love Your Enemies.


We all know it’s irritating to have people come here and post drivel as responses to our posts. Or to repeat lefty talking points and expect us to accept their pronouncements as “indisputable facts”. We’ve all seen it enough that our first reaction to these postings is to shout TROLL!!! and start smashing them to pieces. I’m asking you all to stop and wait; take a breath before the attacks begin. Neil put it differently and with a more RedState oriented focus. I’m going to try and take it to the broader side of life. In addition to Neil’s article and my own musings of late, I’ve run into this same concept in a couple of places.

A few weeks ago we had a guest speaker at my church. He is the head of Asian operations for a missionary organization and spent a great deal of his own field time in Indonesia. Some of the things he talked about, while not intended to do so, illustrated the differences between free market capitalism and state run services (“people who don’t exist”). But that’s not the part of his presentation that applies here…

He and his disciples deal with Al Queda (or rather their surrogates in Indonesia, Jemaah Islamiyah). Directly. As their targets.

He spoke of the group’s stated goal of ethnic cleansing certain areas. They will target an island or a province and purge it of all non-Muslim people. They’ve been successful at the task on at least 2 islands already. One of the next targets for cleansing is an island that I believe he called Manokwari. This is an island that is rich in resources, but sparsely populated. The people there are mostly Christian with some Muslim people, but since they have been targeted for cleansing there are more Muslim people moving in. They are worried and asked for his advice on how to deal with this problem. He told them they have 3 choices:
1. They can fight the Muslims. This is a losing proposition. The Al Queda groups are better armed and better financed and the government would be more likely to back them than the Christians. And even if they did win a few battles, the fight would never end and the Muslims FAR outnumber the Christians in Indonesia.
2. The can hide in the hills. This was the island people’s usual method of defense against a stronger enemy. It worked when the Japanese invaded in WWII. It’s worked for centuries. It won’t work now. Did I mention the island was rich in resources? The resources are located in the hills and nothing will stop immigration to exploit the resources.
3. They can become friends with the Muslims and show them what Christians are really like. If a Muslim moves in next door, become his friend. Don’t invite him to church (he won’t come), but invite him to dinner. He won’t eat your pork, but he will eat your fruit. If he needs help finding out where to get food, electricity, water, etc. take him to the places. If he is moving furniture, help him lift it.

Muslims in Indonesia have been taught that Christians are evil incarnate. They don’t know many Christians so there is nothing to disprove it. When they see that Christians treat people with love and kindness, they will begin to question their teachings. When Jemaah Islamiyah comes calling, their Muslim neighbors will not join in the slaughter. They will instead help protect the Christians.

You may think it’s PollyAnna thinking, but he’s seen the concept work in other areas of Indonesia. When the Christians are known in the neighborhood as good people doing good work, the local Muslim populations have successfully resisted Jemaah Islamiyah’s attacks on them and demanded that they be left alone. Some of them will even convert (though that’s rare as it’s a deadly decision).

Last week, I heard Glen Beck giving a similar account of how liberals react to conservatives. He said he has liberal friends and colleagues who at first were wary of him. They believed the attacks and labels applied to him. You see, similar to Indonesian Muslim teachings about Christians, the liberals are taught that conservatives are evil incarnate by lefty indoctrination. He doesn’t argue politics with them unless they ask him to. Instead he just lives his life and treats them the same way he treats his conservative friends. After a while (usually a short while) they see that they’ve been told lies about him. Then they start to listen to what he’s saying and start to wonder what other lies the lefties have told them. That’s when he has won a convert.

So I’m proposing that we try to do the same. When you meet a lefty or a moderate (here or in real life), be kind to them. Treat them as if they’re your best friend. Don’t attack them, love them. If they are stating things that aren’t true, correct them gently. If they argue points and spout “known facts”, ask them for sources in a kind way. If they can’t provide sources, give some of your own that show the truth. If they argue ideology with lefty “logic”, give them a reasoned debate with real logic. If they are hopeless trolls who won’t back up their ideas or repeatedly ignore evidence that proves them wrong, apply the Hinz rule and ignore them. They’ll stop talking and start listening, leave on their own, or they’ll become such a pain that they get banned. My hope is that they’ll start listening. If they do, we’ll have a convert.

Note, I’m not suggesting that we should allow incorrect information to stand without challenge. That could be construed as agreement with whatever was posted and could cause more harm than good. Argue the facts, but leave the personal attacks out.

Another thing to remember; there’s another audience. For every person who posts here, there are hundreds (thousands?) who stop by to read, but never post anything. They also see how the 2 sides treat issues and how we treat each other. When you’re in public, there are people who see and hear how you and the liberal interact. I’d also like to win over this crowd. Lefties behaving badly don’t appeal to anyone. I don’t want the lurkers to say “a pox on both your houses”. I want them on OUR side.

As I get older, I’m finding more and more that God’s advice on life and relationships is the correct way to make everything work better. Love your enemy is a tough rule to follow, but it is the correct rule.



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14 Comments Leave a comment

One caveat

TheSophist (Diary) Wednesday, February 10th at 8:46PM EST (link)

Good advice, Brian. And one that I follow in meatspace, since I’m surrounded by lefties.

However, whether at RS or in real life, whether how we treat libprogs or how Muslims treat Christians, a distinction has to be made between those who are open-minded and those who are true believers.

It’s one thing for a Christian in Indonesia to be kind to his Muslim neighbor; it’s another thing to invite committed mujahideen to your home.

Similarly, I have no trouble whatsoever in reaching out to those libprogs who are merely brainwashed and open to new ideas and new ways of looking at the world. I have no tolerance whatsoever for the jihadis who plug their ears and chant “Bushitler” at the first sign of debate and disagreement.

Reasonable people can disagree; I don’t regard all libprogs ad evil or misguided. We might just have a different worldview. But if they make it clear that they are doctrinaire true believers no matter what… then time for talk and being sweet and cuddly is over. At that point, to paraphrase Sarah Palin paraphrasing Ronald Reagan, it needs to be about “We win; they lose.”

-TS

“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.” – Ronald Reagan

Heinz rule works wonders for the committed ones.

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 8:28AM EST (link)

The trolls are just looking for a heated reaction so they can go back to KOS and tell all their buddies what a wonderful job they did. If they get a calm reaction or are simply ignored, then they have failed. Sometimes the only possible response is for Neil (or another moderator) to write a short notice stating that BushHitler rants are not appropriate here and to disable the account. But even then we win because it’s obvious the troll was rude and obnoxious.

Of course circumstances determine the style and tone of the reaction, but always, always, always remember that there are other people watching to see which group(s) they agree with and who they will want to emulate. I’d rather the watchers decide to come down on our side.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
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I don't quite have the confidence in all of your points,

penguin2 (Diary) Wednesday, February 10th at 8:57PM EST (link)

Brian, but I certainly understand the intent with which you write them.

Interesting comment in your story about the Muslims. The third choice, which I think would work wonderfully in America, because we have an American spirit that is accepting of newcomers. I know it is not always so, but eventually immigrants assimilate. In the situation you describe, I see a problem:

The people there are mostly Christian with some Muslim people, but since they have been targeted for cleansing there are more Muslim people moving in.

The situations are not comparable, in fact, this is one of the serious problems that Christians face in many areas of the world where there is already a large Muslim population, or one that is “targeting for cleansing.”

I know that the intent of your post is not really to discuss the merits of Christian/Muslim settlements, but one can still apply my observation. IOW, I am no more certain of how the settlements will work out, than I am about Leftists/moderates who come here and post in bad faith, and I believe many do. OTOH, how we engage in discourse is always important, and taking the high road, which you are advocating, is certainly reasonable.

Recently, I have seen many of the very involved regulars go to extraordinary efforts to explain, clarify and reasonably correct either deliberate or misguided information. I also recognize human nature, and the passions that enable this discourse to take place, and just want to make note of that. You know they say two things one should never discuss, religion and politics…..

As someone who does try to be reasonable in arguments, there are times I even want to throw up my hands and say, “you sir or madame, are a pain in the neck!”

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
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Penguin, I had the same reaction when I first heard the missionary say it.

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 8:48AM EST (link)

But he had seen a similar plan keep the terrorists from killing the missionaries at a school near the garbage dump (where thousands of the “people who don’t exist) lived. The area had been (mostly successfully) targeted for cleansing to the point where previous missions had to leave or die. A large campus had to close because the people who ran it were either killed or too frightened to run it.

That changed when 1 woman* had the courage to keep working with the people. She made a difference in the lives of the “people who don’t exist” by teaching them how to earn a living. They started with recycling the garbage, then teaching simple trades (doing hair and nails, or handyman work for example).** The Muslims in the nearby area noticed what a change she made, not just for the people in the dumps, but in the surrounding area (lower crime, cleaner area, better people). They allowed her to reopen the school.

Jemaah Islamiyah started threatening them again with her specifically targetted, but she asked her friends in the local neighborhoods for help. They went to their local officials who got the word back to Jemaah Islamiyah that they wanted these people left alone.

It’s a frightening path and it takes a huge amount of courage. But it works (mostly). I hope we never get to that point, but if we do I hope I have 1/10th the courage of that woman.

*I don’t recall the woman’s name and didn’t write it down. I wish I had, she’s actually done something that deserves a peace prize.

** This was part of the story of capitalism being the saviour of people who had no hope that I mentioned above. It is the only system that will allow people who have nothing to rise above their current situation. They’re also doing micro-finance and using other techniques to help the people. And it works wonderfully.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Take back our party!
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I agree

cdyer88 (Diary) Wednesday, February 10th at 9:00PM EST (link)

Loving our enemies can be tough but, as all things we’re called to do, it’s worth it.

I think it’s good as well to extend this not only to those on the left, but also those on the right when we disagree. I notice a good deal of vitriol when people disagree and it’s discouraging. It’s easy, especially when people are passionate, to start name-calling and accusing people of not being “true conservatives” when they disagree, especially when the loud majority is on their side. It’s difficult to give a reasoned argument, or to simply walk away from the argument, and ultimately to do so out of love and kindness. The right thing is usually the hardest thing to do.

Anyway, sorry to rant, good post!

 

I recommended but I totally DISAGREE....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 8:30AM EST (link)

that OUR enemies can be loved because they are so damn HATEFUL! I think WE can definitely take it a little easier on those who are more likeminded instead of beating the crap out of them instantly though if they continue with their stupidity it should be open season. I have a real problem with the RP types who want us to isolate here at home as if that will solve all the problems in the world so I reserve the RIGHT to go after them :)

Jaded, I've spent the last 6 Saturdays in a small room with them.

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 9:27AM EST (link)

Yes, they have some ideas that are just, well wrong. They’re real big on conspiracy theories (which are NOT needed to explain what’s going on). They’re real big on “Audit the Fed” and gold standard stuff. They haven’t said much about isolationism, yet….

But they’re MOSTLY on our side. They believe in freedom, and the bill of rights, and most of all they’re ACTIVE. They don’t always know how to direct that activity but they’re trying. More important, they’re on our side on issues that effect us locally. The things that we can actually effect.

So I tolerate some of the weird stuff, on other points I argue. I’ve been known to get loud on the topic of 3rd parties and the effects of splitting the vote (if you knew me, you’d know that getting loud in a room full of strangers is a change in my personality). They are starting to understand what I mean when I tell them that a Fed audit would be a dog and pony show that doesn’t change anything.

Anyway, I’m trying to practice what I preach. And lately I’ve been acting like an evangelist for conservatism, freedom and free markets.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots

Jaded, Brian I think you should remember every movement has its fringe.

RoguePolitics (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 6:12PM EST (link)

I do the C4L thing and think if you listen to what they are saying, as a group, about international engagement it is not isolationism. It is based on;
“Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.” Thomas Jefferson
and
“The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is, in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connexion as possible.” George Washington

I think that rules out nation building. But it isn’t isolationism either. Opposite sides of the aisle but in agreement. Trade with everybody friendly and be ready for war.

“If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War.” George Washington
and
“It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.” Thomas Jefferson

Yes some C4L’rs take it too far and yes there a number of them that will buy into the latest conspiracy theories but most of them simply want a return to constitutional government.

I really think the vast majority of TH, RS, Tea Partiers and C4L fans share that goal in common. And we all agree pretty closely on what it would mean. If we are ever going to restore that constitutional government it will be by working together as much as possible.

“So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don’t even know that fire is hot.” George Orwell

“Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate, now what’s going to happen to us with both a House and a Senate?” Will Rogers

When the American spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different: Liberty, sir, was the primary object. Patrick Henry

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We're on the same page, Brian

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 8:50AM EST (link)

..Bernie will enjoy reading this. I just amended our scheduled post (on the same subject, sort of) to include a link here. Tanks)

Thanks Vassar. I look forward to your post.

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 1:40PM EST (link)

Your writing tends to be better than mine. Perhaps you can get the point across in a more palatable fashion.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots

No, I read mine and read yours, Brian

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 4:44PM EST (link)

…and yours is on point. (Mine never are.)

Bernie will like this a lot. He has a scheme. You might like Ramon Llull and the “disputation.” I’m trying to get him to do a 2000 word essay on the style.

What I like is that this is a point of view only people of faith can appreciate.

Lol! We both know that's not true Vassar.

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 5:37PM EST (link)

But thank you for the compliment anyway.

Now you’ve given me a research project to add to my growing pile. I’m going to have to find out who this Ramon Llull is and exactly what questions he kept asking that got him hung.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots

 
 
 
 

Great ideas!

Ann_W (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 2:20PM EST (link)

That is one thing that you notice when you try to post conservative points on other websites; you immediately get called names or get the “well, Republicans are so much worse” instead of a discussion of any points. It’s hard to imagine any constructive dialogue. It would be so great to see RedState as a place for learning and discussing.

This is actually a timely topic for me here, because a couple of days ago I had the nerve to post some reservations I had about Sarah Palin as presidential candidate on a diary about her. I was surprised at how hard I got slammed. The argument against my points seemed to be that I was an idiot. That may be true, however, it doesn’t really help shed light on this very important topic. Very disappointing. I’m open to the fact that I could be wrong, but I thought I had some relevant points that I hadn’t heard discussed; and those points couldn’t be discussed because of the way I was shut down. So thanks for the input, I think it can be very helpful going forward.

“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.”
— Milton Friedman

The War on Poverty– forty-six years and counting!

Palin stirs up passions around here.

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 5:09PM EST (link)

Either for or against and you’re likely to get an idiot tag laid on you no matter which side you’re on. I didn’t see your specific incident, but I’ve seen enough that I can imagine. It comes with the territory. McCain is probably the other one that will get you instant flame, though there are far fewer McCain supporters than Palin supporters.

Other than that, we usually have reasoned debate around here.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots