Patrick Ruffini points to this helpful history of the ‘public option:’
One key player was Roger Hickey of the Campaign for America’s Future. Hickey took UC Berkley health care expert Jacob Hacker’s idea for “a new public insurance pool modeled after Medicare” and went around to the community of single-payer advocates, making the case that this limited “public option” was the best they could hope for. Ideally, it would someday magically turn into single-payer. And then Hickey went to all the presidential candidates, acknowledging that politically, they couldn’t support single-payer, but that the “public option” would attract a real progressive constituency. Here’s Hickey from a speech to New Jersey Citizen Action in November 2007:
The good news is that people are ready for big change. But the hard reality, from the point of view of all of us who understand the efficiency and simplicity of a single-payer system, is that our pollsters unanimously tell us that large numbers of Americans are not willing to give up the good private insurance they now have in order to be put into one big health plan run by the government.
Pollster Celinda Lake looked at public backing for a single-payer plan – and then compared it with an approach that offers a choice between highly regulated private insurance and a public plan like Medicare. This alternative, called “guaranteed choice” wins 64 percent support to 22 percent for single-payer. And even the hard core progressive part of the population, which Celinda calls the “health justice” constituency, favors “guaranteed choice” over single-payer.
Once Hickey sold the idea to candidate John Edwards, he was off to the races. It wasn’t long before almost every Democrat lined up in support of the ‘public option.’ And many liberals have been willing to admit that it’s because this is the best way to get to single-payer care. John Edwards even explained how it would work during a 2007 Democratic candidates’ forum:
Democrats have for years been embracing the public option and explaining that it will lead to single-payer care. This has been its central appeal. And now – despite the ample evidence on the public record – they claim it would be simply one more option? Why won’t they just be honest? Lies aren’t working, anyway.
Video from Verum Serum
Also see the Morning Bell.
Cross-posted to theconservatives.com
Neil Stevens
Steve Maley
Health Care Reform or Government Power Grab
ellisclarke (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 12:33PM EST (link)First, any honest lawyer or lay person who has truly read the health bill, passed by the House, the only conclusion one could come to is that it is NOT a health care reform piece of legislation. However it is clearly a federal government power grab to control health benefits and treatments under private or public plans.
It further will take away responsibilities or restrictions concerning same from the local State Governments, doctors and private insurance companies and put this power and responsibility into the hands of an UN-elected health Commissioner.
With more than 85% of Americans satisfied with the coverage available to them, why are Democrats and Republican Senators and House Members, supported by their respective political parties, lobbyists and special interest groups, rushing to Dismantle the existing health care insurance programs?
Do Americans travel to Canada, Cuba, England or France etc. to seek health care? Of course not.
Is the so called reform, then, mainly to include health benefits for the 15 to 20 million illegal’s and non-Americans? Is it to cover the 2 to 3 million who do not have and can not afford health care coverage for political reasons?
Or, the power grab is it is written, for the Federal Government and political parties too further control your life style, treatment and health benefits through unelected bureaucrats and czars making treatment or benefit decisions for us based on the cheapest available drug or health procedures? The one blue pill fits all approach!
Why is there NO clause or statement in any proposed health reform bill or HR3200 that specifically states that NON-CITIZENS will NOT be entitled to benefits under the Government socialized universal health care program. WHY?
The Obama power grab for a socialized universal health care government run program, will lead to the complete dismantling of the current health care insurance system within 5 years. Read it, it is in the bill.
Now Obama-Care is considering Government financed co-operative non-profit health care insurance programs. This in itself might be a good move, but it raises a number of questions that need to be answered.
Like is the Government going to fund these co-operative non-profits out of our taxes?
Is there going to be a restriction that clearly states that only legalized American residents will be in a position to join and receive benefits from these Coops.?
If they are funded through taxes, like those companies who asked for and took the tarp money they will be subject to how the money is spend and what health services will be covered and who will be calling the shots relating to treatments? Government unelected bureaucrats and political czars or patience’s and their doctors? As, all these also presently exist in the House Bill 3200. Read it.
Further if and when these non-profits were to go bankrupt, would we the tax payers have to bail them out, like was done with Banks and Auto sector? Of course we would, just ask Senators like Barney Franks or other that are hiding from the voters.
So is it really a move away from a socialized universal health care or just another way for this Government to come in with dismantling the current health care insurance programs over a five year period, through the back door by taxpayer funding for these Coop, non-profit health care insurance programs through HR3200 which is the largest Federal Government power grab from the people and their doctors and local State Governments in history of the republic?
Keep smiling
Instead of public option -> single payer
bk (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 12:49PM EST (link)it looks like what could happen is that we get “co-ops” (*wink wink*) that will in short order turn into a de facto “public option” to get us back on the intended path.
Don't let Obama's parsing of language fool you!
pn_knoll (Diary) Wednesday, August 19th at 2:31PM EST (link)It is becoming very clear that the only thing that is going to be affective in stopping this push for the federal takeover of American healthcare is a knowledgeable, mobilized American citizenry.
Unless an informed public remains energized to continue to take action and to make our voices heard, this travesty could STILL become law in just a matter of months… But – YES, we CAN stop it!
We simply must remain vigilant, standing together and speaking out with an overwhelming voice to say “NO!”
What Team Obama from the Left is attempting right now is nothing less than a pacification of the groundswell opposition they have seen over the past three weeks to their radical policies, which will ruin our nation’s health care!
Don’t let them fool you! We must stay, both, informed and motivated or America will lose this important battle.
The Christian Coalition of America has a GREAT one-stop-shop sort of information repository and action center available… At the Health Care Action Center, you can read the latest news regarding the health care debate, read editorials and commentary from America’s best political minds, get raw data on health care… You can even sign the Christian Coalition of America’s petition to stop the government takeover of health care and contact your Senators and Congressman directly via the online fax console to let them know how you feel about this crucial matter!
Please visit the CCA’s Health Care Action Center and get the facts on the health care reform debate… Then take action… Don’t forget to share this resource with others!
http://www.cc.org/Health_Care_Action_Center
Wouldn't another option be to promote a solid
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 2:00PM EST (link)Conservative Health Care Reform proposal to compare with the Liberal one and then let people debate the two proposals?
By simply stating “No!” isn’t there the risk of being framed as merely trying to preserve the status quo? Because lots of people aren’t very happy about dealing with health insurance companies and rates are skyrocketing. Why not talk about Tort Reform or Health Savings Accounts?
Are you a moby cclive??
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 2:10PM EST (link)I am just wondering because you seem to sprinkle all of your comments with a mixture of fallacious left wing talking points while making sure to toss in some token, though vague, conservative points.
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Whats vague about Tort Reform
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 2:31PM EST (link)to reduce costs in health care? Cut out ambulance chasing lawyers and you have savings. Or Health Savings Accounts for that matter? Do you have anything you want to add because I really want to hear it. What makes for a good Conservative Health Care Reform in your opinion? I want to hear that discussion.
And what in my comment is a left wing talking point? That we’ll be “framed” as an angry gun toting mob? Cause if you haven’t been paying attention the Media has already done that! They don’t show anyone asking hard hitting questions or proposing competing ideas they just show the yelling and shouting parts. The energy and momentum have been good and knocked Obama of his game but if there isn’t a follow up with some competing plans or ideas then what?
Here is your left wing talking point...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 2:39PM EST (link)There was a recent poll which directly contradicts this specific talking point as well.
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OK show me the poll that says people are
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 2:44PM EST (link)happy about dealing with their health insurance company.
I don't do homework for disingenuos trolls cclive...you got google...look it up. nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 2:54PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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If you don't have anything to offer
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:03PM EST (link)then thats OK. It just sounded like you had seen a recent poll.
You are a lazy troll cclive...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:08PM EST (link)and easily refuted
By the way…what I did just then…that was called a setup.
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Thanks for finding that survey
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:13PM EST (link)But it doesn’t say anything about how customers like dealing with the insurance company, just about their coverage. I like my coverage but I don’t like dealing with them, you know the 800 numbers and being put on hold and things like that. Try and pay attention please.
Is the healthcare debate about the customer service reps on the phone???
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:17PM EST (link)Silly me I thought it was about coverage and affordabillity. Which, as the poll shows, the majority of people are happy with.
Don’t move the goalposts pal.
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If you want to reform health care
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:24PM EST (link)and maintain private industry in that system then the debate is not just about coverage and affordability it will be about the service that private company can provide me as well. Seriously, do you not see how a company’s service affects its performance in a free market? Wow, just Wow.
Why do I think you're here just to argue? (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:26PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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By the way, cc
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:32PM EST (link)Ignoring moderators is a bad idea.
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Honestly I'm not
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:36PM EST (link)Aaron seems to have a bone to pick with me since a conversation on the Post Office. I tried then to make amends on that one but he wants nothing to do with it.
You didn't try to make any ammends
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:37PM EST (link)Now your are not just a twit but a lying twit to boot!!
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Then why do you keep shifting the goalposts on him
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:38PM EST (link)First you were talking about medical care, and now you’re talking about customer service?
Huh?
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I wasn't
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:48PM EST (link)I had said “…lots of people aren’t very happy about dealing with health insurance companies”
Aaron said he had a recent survey, I asked him to link it, he did but it was about coverage which is quite a different thing than service. He went on to suggest service isn’t important and it is of course.
Then I challenge you
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:50PM EST (link)Find me a survey that says people are happy with dealing with the post office or the DMV.
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I'm not saying that Government service
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 4:05PM EST (link)would be better. I’m saying service is important to customers. People can want health care reform without wanting the Government to run it.
cclive...do you know the difference between reform and change? nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:08PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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Would you consider...
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 4:14PM EST (link)eliminating Medicare change or reform?
Why can't you answer a direct question cclive...this is why you look like, and probably are, a troll. Twit.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:14PM EST (link)And no I will not answer your question.
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Fine I'll answer your'e question
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 4:24PM EST (link)Yes I know the difference between reform and change.
Now will you answer mine?
What is the difference....
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:26PM EST (link)I will answer your question when you answer that….you avoided two direct questions so I will need two direct answers before I answer any question you put forth.
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LOL
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 4:32PM EST (link)I answered your question how you asked it. Your turn pal, don’t try to squirm out of this.
cclive...no squirming here...although you seem to slither quite a bit...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:42PM EST (link)Eliminating Medicare could be reform, it just depends on how it’s done.
Now what is the difference between change and reform?
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What a weak answer...
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 4:54PM EST (link)Reform is the betterment of something while a change is just that, a change, it doesn’t mean or imply a betterment.
Wrong answer cclive....
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 5:00PM EST (link)Reform is the process of removing variables in a manor that allows you to track what happens to the object being reformed, whereas change is the addition of variables without regard to the effects those variables create.
If you had understood that you wouldn’t have thought my answer was weak.
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Sounds more like trial and error
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 5:11PM EST (link)You might want to invest in a dictionary
you are a complete idiot nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 5:48PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
aesthete (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:38PM EST (link)Oh, and btw, I consider it effective, notwithstanding its classification as “change or reform”. It’s the fetishization of change that led to Pres. Obama’s election, and only a fool would be more concerned with “change” than with effectiveness.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
A quick search just showed this
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 4:30PM EST (link)“It’s not surprising that, according to the American Customer Satisfaction Index, the U.S. Post Office received an average customer services rating of 74 percent while its two main private competitors, FedEx and UPS, received scores of 84 and 82 percent respectively.”
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/08/14/post-office-comparison/
Its not sourced or anything though.
You just proved Neil's point...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:31PM EST (link)People are happier with the private sector than with the public sector.
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You really don't get it do you?
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 4:48PM EST (link)Thats only if the Post Office and Fedex are competing and providing the same services but you know they’re not.
I don’t disagree with Neil’s point, I never did,
I thought we were talking customer service cclive...moving the goal posts again are we?? nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:53PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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cclive: Point blank
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:55PM EST (link)What is your agenda here? What is your view ont he subject? Give us your flat, outright opinion on the matter.
Enough with the trolly question asking. On with your opinion.
Out with it.
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My original comment on this thread was that
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 5:06PM EST (link)I wanted to see more Conservative ideas on Health Care Reform put forth in the public sphere to be debated and discussed. Why does it seem like the Democrats can get their ideas on the Public Option and Co-ops out and debated in the public and Media (sure the Democrats are in power I get that) but I want to see some Conservative ideas like MSAs or Tort Reform get promoted. The town halls put a huge road block out there and I think its time to put some competing ideas out there.
You can write a diary anytime you feel like it cclive
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 5:11PM EST (link)I would love to read you ifea of a good conservative HealthCare Reform plan.
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We have been
aesthete (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 5:21PM EST (link)Could we do a better job at promoting those ideas? Probably; if you have any ideas for how we could do better with the resources and people that we have, we’re all ears. That is very different from saying that we don’t have any ideas for HC, though. I think voter education is important, but realistically, there’s no way that we’ll be able to pass an adequate reform bill in the current Democrat-dominated Congress, much less getting through Obama’s veto pen.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Last chance
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 5:21PM EST (link)I didn’t ask you to request the GOP to state an opinion. I asked you to give yours.
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My opinion is
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 5:49PM EST (link)that we need to be more aggressive promoting Conservative ideas on Health Care. There are plenty of good ones out there. Like MSAs or rather HSAs, how about removing any caps on MSA contributions. Or maybe just start an awareness campaign letting people know they can already sign up and start using them.
So cclive you support the status quo...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 5:53PM EST (link)At least that is what you just implied. The things you just wrote about are already available and have nothing to do with Health Care reform.
Give it up already.
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Removing caps on HSAs
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 5:57PM EST (link)Pay attention
Ok..your one reform is that...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 6:01PM EST (link)the rest of what you said was nothing more than promoting what is already there.
You can’t be serious.
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Hey, its one more idea than I've seen out of you -nt
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 6:09PM EST (link)cclive...I supported tort reform long before you ever signed up for RS...fool.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 6:22PM EST (link)See I have a history here…I am on record.
You aren’t…you have been a blank canvas…except for when you are putting out lefty talking points.
Notice no one is questioning what I support other than you….that should have clued you in. But you have shown you aren’t too quick on the uptake.
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ATTN: cclive, Aaron Gardner
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 6:25PM EST (link)I don’t want to see either of you addressing each other or speaking of each other on this site for a while.
Consequences to your accounts are at risk if you disobey.
Mgmt.
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Got it. nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 6:30PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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Understood
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 6:34PM EST (link)Understood
OK
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 5:57PM EST (link)So quit arguing these left wing ideas that we need the state to intervene against insurance companies, or that we need the state to step in and nanny us all with ‘reform,’ and we’ll get along fine.
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But on an issue like Tort Reform
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 6:07PM EST (link)You kind of need government involvement to set limits. For example in the Patient’s Choice Act Coburn propose some type of “health court” to try and curb/streamline medical litigation.
That's not what's being debated
aesthete (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:35PM EST (link)The current debate is about a) whether or not government care is more effective, and b) whether or not people are content with their coverage. Nowhere have I heard anyone debate the merits of government-provided customer service, and to say otherwise is disingenuous.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
So is it now your claim that Health Ins Comp = Cust service and not the coverage or the cost??
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:51PM EST (link)You can’t be serious.
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cctwit...why would Congress regulate a Company's cust service in a free market? TWIT!!! nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:26PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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cclive you seem to be implying that people would
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:20PM EST (link)prefer to deal with the federal government than with their health insurance companies.
You might want to check out the reasons car dealers are refusing to participate in the $4C program before you dig that hole any deeper.
I personally doubt that you are a troll. Stupid is more like it.
No, I'm not implying that all
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:34PM EST (link)I think service can be just as import as coverage and affordability.
I have an uncle who had a snowblower accident with his hand. After some re-attachment surgery he moved on to rehabilitation, his insurance was only going to cover half of the doctor recommended visits, so he appealed. Then he got the rejection letter regretfully informing him that his daughter did not qualify for c-section coverage unless it was deemed an emergency procedure. His insurance company had completely switched his account with some random father of a pregnant girl. So not only was his insurer not reading his requests they divulged sensitive medical information to a stranger.
Could this happen with a Government run program of course, most definitely it would and then some degrees worse. I’m only saying that service should not be overlooked in this discussion.
so you think the govt should regulate cust. service protocols in a free market....you are not a conservative!!! TWIT!!! nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:36PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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What's your solution?
aesthete (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:44PM EST (link)There’s no way to get a result that would please all 300+ million of Americans, but the free market has generally proven far more effective than any other institution in the allocation of goods, adaptation of said allocation in case of a change in consumer preferences or technology, and in aggregate satisfaction of consumers.
Again, you turned this conversation from “Guys, we need something to counter Dems in the marketplace of ideas” to “Guys, customer service is really important” (a subject that hasn’t even peripherally been a focus in the HC debate).
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
The service piece is pretty simple, the execution a bit difficult though.
Achance (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 5:02PM EST (link)Plan administrators, HR people, and labor negotiators can insist on some level of service from their insurer or TPA and hold them to it. What level depends on consumer demand and price. The schemes we negotiated for the State of Alaska all required an 800 number staffed 24/7/365 and a formal appeal mechanism seperate from our grievance/arbitration processes. Of course there are errors from time to time and they are made by the consumer, the healthcare provider, and the TPA, but we do have means to resolve them and while someone is from time to time unhappy, it generally works. We can do this in a high cost state and with plans that unions can negotiate line by line if they wish. We didn’t wish them to and have only done so once, but we were always very sensitive to what they wanted. We were able to keep the quality acceptible while still retaining a fairly low per participant cost; these days a little over $900/mbr./mth/ for employee and dependents and an employee contribution ranging from zero for basic to a hundred and change for audio/visual/dental. We have $250/person deductibles, co-pays on most things, relatively minimal but you feel them, and a good bit of looking over members and care providers shoulders. That’s how we still kept it under a thousand while other governments here in AK are $12-1500 and government plans in most of the Blue states are in that realm or higher.
We’ve consistently had a Republican or divided government so we’ve resisted most of the pandering and mandated coverages that have killed some plans. Since the appeal process is completely separate and through the TPA rather than our own structures, it is almost non-political and No almost always means No, something that is not always the case with other union or government plans.
The difficulty in execution on the custormer service side is that most young Americans of the sort that will work at these service jobs, mostly entry level and a level or two up from that plus supervisors are rude, ignorant, and thoughtless, so you have to be willing to demand supervisors to talk to you and be willing to complain to the highest authority available to you. That isn’t just an insurance company or TPA problem, that is a problem for anyone who employs recent graduates of government schools.
In Vino Veritas
Nice, 5/5 on the setup nt
aesthete (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:16PM EST (link)The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
heh..thanks aesthete...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:18PM EST (link)sometimes they make it too easy. They have to learn to be less predictable. But that would require a functioning brain.
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cclive, Everybody from Tim Pawlenty to
Warrior (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 2:49PM EST (link)Newt Gingrich has been putting forward free mkt healthcare reforms. How about this for a “good Conservative Healthcare reform”?—-
Interstate insurance competition, Medical Savings Accounts, tax free insurance or credits, tort reform, fee for service, rewarding outcomes, medical malpractice reform, prohibiting coverage denials based on preexisting conditions, guaranteeing portability, electronic prescriptions and medical records, streamlining billing codes and practices, price and quality transparency, pay-for-performance measures, one-stop primary-care “medical homes,” chronic disease management initiatives, tax equity for health insurance purchases, increased incentives for health savings accounts, creating the ability to purchase insurance or form risk pools across state lines, and much much more.
Alas, there’s nothing magical about HOW to reform healthcare anyway. The problem is wrenching power away from statist Democrats, big govt lobbyists and Utopian Messiahs with delusions of grandeur. In other words, the Repubs are out of power right now. And when they were in, well, remember when Bush ‘43 tried to reform Social Security? The Dems’ misinformation machine had Ed Asner making robo calls to nursing homes and assisted living facilities across the country to frighten the old folks with tales of how Bush was going to take away their Soc Sec payments.
That’s one reason why what they are doing now is so shameless.
“Bearing false witness” indeed.
“Racial criteria are irrational, irrelevant, [and] odious to our way of life.” — Thurgood Marshall for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund in the 1950 Supreme Court case of McLaurin v. Oklahoma
Thats a great list indeed
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 2:58PM EST (link)I guess I don’t think we have to wait for power to change hands to promote any of these. I think generally people want some type of reform to health care. Obama presented their version and people didn’t go crazy for it, the opposition to it has reduced support for his plan further and now I think there is an opening to present a competing reform.
I just think now would be a good time to start presenting some of these ideas.
cclive...the Dems have control of the House and aren't allowing other options to come to the floor...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:01PM EST (link)But I think you already new that.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
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You can present ideas anywhere, anytime
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:09PM EST (link)you just need the right platform. I didn’t say the House floor.
You can't be this dumb cclive....
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:10PM EST (link)This site has offered plenty of proposals, Heritage Foundation has offered Proposals.
But the bottom line here is that none of those proposals matter because laws are made in congress you twit!!
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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Since you want to get in to name calling
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:18PM EST (link)I can’t continue our discussions, its just not being respectful.
Wow...did I hurt your feelings???
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:22PM EST (link)Too bad….don’t act like a twit and I won’t call you a twit.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
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A little...
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:44PM EST (link)OK, not really
An opening? You're mad
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:19PM EST (link)We don’t have the votes.
We need to wait patiently until next year, when we can run on things to try to take the House.
Until then, we do nothing. Until then, we can do nothing. Until then, anything we do can be perverted and twisted against us rhetorically. Justl ook at what’s going on with co-ops: you guys are twisting it around into some People’s Democratic State run thing.
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We even get castigated for enjoying
Warrior (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:36PM EST (link)the ObamaPelosiReid meltdown. Juan Williams was on Sean Hannity last night accusing Congressional Repubs of being like junior high kids shooting soda straw wrappers at each other while the teacher’s back is turned. We just can’t win. In fact, I’m almost certain the Bush Administration is at fault…
“Racial criteria are irrational, irrelevant, [and] odious to our way of life.” — Thurgood Marshall for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund in the 1950 Supreme Court case of McLaurin v. Oklahoma
I don't even mean something that gets voted on
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:42PM EST (link)I just mean something that the public can get talking about and then hopefully get behind. The Democrats throw out Public Option and the Co-Ops, what the heck is that anyway? but it seems to stick and people start talking about it. Why can’t we get the Medical Savings Accounts idea out there and get people to do the same?
I mean just bring it into the public debate.
That's not how politics works
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:45PM EST (link)MSAs are never going to get the votes in this Congress. If we talk about them, then it won’t GET anywhere, and in fact the Democrats may do some socialist thing, call it an MSA, and then blame us for not supporting it.
And what makes you think the Public Option is sticking? There’s a reason the bill isn’t passed, and that’s it. People don’t want the kind of people at the Post Office to run our medical care.
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Why does everyone beat up on the Post Office
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 3:58PM EST (link)Coburn put out the Patient’s Choice Act
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=b8876db7-2be0-4c84-b833-3d77dc4afa83
Which I thought was a decent step, it probably will not go anywhere but should he have not put it out there?
I don’t mean sticking in a sense that people are supporting it but they are still talking/debating it.
Why don't you answer direct question...oh and where in Coburn act did he address the cust. service aspect that you consider so important???...nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 4:04PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
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I know you're probably still sore about
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 2:36PM EST (link)being wrong on the Post Office thing but relax man, its just the Post Office.
I wasn't wrong...you just claimed victory without reading the link I provided...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 2:41PM EST (link)Which is another sign of lefty trolldom.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
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And I didn't decalre victory I actually admitted my mistake
cclive Thursday, August 20th at 2:45PM EST (link)and said I was wrong. But my mistake for bringing it up again, just thought we could put it behind us.
*I* did...obviously *you* didn't since *you* just brought it up out of nowhere...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 2:53PM EST (link)I warned you once about being disingenuous…
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
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Ah, Framing
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 2:13PM EST (link)A hallmark of the left.
No, we deal in ideas, not frames, cclive.
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Those are the same mush-minded sorts that
Achance (Diary) Thursday, August 20th at 3:06PM EST (link)the media convinced they were enduring the “worst economy since the Great Depression” during the greatest and most wide-spread boom in American history.
In Vino Veritas