On Brooks and Others


When Rage is Called For

NRO points to an account of a discussion with David Brooks about a potential Barack Obama victory:

During a chat with local press prior to a question-and-answer session with students at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts yesterday, Brooks went on to say that this election will be the end of a national Republican power arc that has been largely in place since the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and on the decline since 1995.

He said this election will mark a “sea change in American politics” and that the Democratic reign could last as long as 10 to 15 years…

“I saw Republicanism rise and now I’ve seen it fall,” Brooks continued. “It’s become intellectually exhausted, incurious and the party is getting narrower and narrower. So the people who used to feel that they’re Republicans no longer do.”

He noted that while Obama’s candidacy has sparked a wave of new voter registration among the young and African-Americans, he doesn’t believe that will substantially affect the political ideology of the nation. “This is a center-right country, and it still is,” he said.

First off, let me stipulate that I don’t think this race is over. I believe the voters who remain undecided today are unlikely ever to back Barack Obama. So whoever wins this election, the outcome will be a close one.

That said, Brooks seems ready to euthanize what’s left of the conservative era kicked off by Reagan and guided at times by lesser men — one which proved America could be governed, which restored economic growth, restored faith in the military, killed the USSR, and generally made freedom and a belief in the individual possible again.

That being the case, I don’t want anybody on my side who says ‘pity this doesn’t seem quite like the movement of Reagan, let’s help it into the grave.’ I want people who are enraged at the idea that this conservative era may be coming to an end, before we’ve had a chance to correct the mistakes. This movement has done more good than harm — by a long shot — and is still the nation’s best hope. How can anyone who ever truly believed in it demonstrate apathy at the thought that Barack Obama may be about to give the liberals in Congress what they need to reverse what has been accomplished?

I want rage.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


Category: , , , ,

RSS feed

170 Comments Leave a comment

The pundits are the only rats bailing

hunter (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 10:48AM EST (link)

and good riddance.

hunter

 

Biden versus Obama for the Continuation of Red States

moblou Sunday, October 26th at 10:58AM EST (link)

Remember this revealing statement:

Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

“Mark my words,” the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. “It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

 

Hillary- Country Before Party!

moblou Sunday, October 26th at 10:59AM EST (link)

I suggest today, October 26, 2008, we wish Hillary a happy birthday and appeal to her to put country over party to save our country from Obama’s policies. She knows as well as I do how incredibly dangerous they will be. So, Happy Birthday Hillary! I hope you joy, happiness and health throughout the course of your life. Unfortunately, I cannot support you in backing Obama. As a former Hillary supporter I am proud to say I now support McCain/Palin- 08. The reason is primarily because the Democratic Party has changed so much since the start of the primary season in 2007 and all the “boys” ganged up to beat you, they no longer represent my ideas/ideals/beliefs as a “US” citizen. Admittedly, the Republican Party does not represent all of them either, but I can honestly say Senator McCain and Sarah Palin do not scare me and Obama/Biden really scares the heck out of me. So, for now and the foreseeable future, I will be re-registering as an Independent and voting Republican for President. I pray that America see’s the light before November 4th.

 

Rage...

liberalrepublican (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:01AM EST (link)

Rage may feel good (temporarily)and be cathartic, but it turns off the middle and loses elections.

We need new ideas.

I want to see specific ideas for how we are going to untangle the government meddling in the finacial that we are engaging in.

I want to see specific ideas about how the federal government can start to give back more power to the states.

I want to see specific ideas about how the country can achieve energy independence with more domestic oil, nukes and green energy. This is a national security issue for the next 50 years.

Speaking for myself, I’ve felt the campaign has focused too much on tearing down the other side and not enough on promoting exciting, new ideas.

“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”

5

Tim_Schieferecke (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:10AM EST (link)

Well stated and welcome moblou. I come across pretty hard line sometimes, but I too want to see the Democrat Party return to its JFK traditions. I believe in a strong 2 party system and hope that it can remove its dangerous marxist tendencies asap.

Tim Schieferecke

 
 

Kicked off with Reagan?

Badill_T Sunday, October 26th at 11:16AM EST (link)

I thought the conservative revolution began with Goldwater; Reagan was its most popular leader.

This website is a microcosm of the larger hostile environment created by the modern GOP. In the past few weeks front page stories have been posted that directly attacked the GLBT community (Log Cabin Republicans unwelcome) and the atheist/agnostic community (Christians only, please). If your ideas are not strong enough to stand as the centerpiece of your political agenda and you must resort to attacking minority groups to form cohesiveness, there are fundamental problems that must be addressed.

When I tried to engage in discussion about ways to shift the debate on government to be more favorable to the GOP I was attacked. Those who are not open to new ideas will be marginalized as the national debate shifts away from the old, favorable framework.

Even if McCain wins no one can deny the likelihood that Dems will increase their lead in both houses of Congress.

But hey, we don’t need ideas or discussion, we need rage!

I'm with you on that

Badill_T Sunday, October 26th at 11:19AM EST (link)

Unfortunately, all too often those who bring new ideas around here get attacked for lacking ideological purity.

:::shrug::: We’ll see what happens come Nov. 4th.

History in reverse

bobbymike (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:20AM EST (link)

Despite his self assessed “conservative intellectual” moniker Mr. Brooks is just flat out wrong and has been living in the New York/Washington sphere for too long.

  • Reagan open unapologetic conservative with strong communication skills – RESULT TWO LANDSLIDES
  • 1994 Contract With America open unapologetic conservative social/economic congressional agenda – RESULT REPUBLICAN TAKE CONTROL OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE
  • 2000 Bush “seen” as conservative RESULT VICTORY OVER A DEMOCRAT AT A TIME OF PEACE AND A GOOD ECONOMY.

Since then

  • a continual stream of center moving Republican politicians with NO CONSERVATIVE AGENDA – RESULT CONTINUAL LOSS OF POWER, LOSS OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE AND MAYBE SOON THE WHITE HOUSE.

Reagan and Gingrich MOVED people to their side BECAUSE this country is center right, it has to be STRONGLY AND CONTINUALLY ARTICUALTED!!

Sorry for the caps but a little RAGE was in order.

 
 
 

Brooks is right about one thing ...

StudentOfLincoln (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:24AM EST (link)

Brooks is right about one thing: “the [Republican] party is getting narrower and narrower.”

That is evident even on RedState, where the threshold for being banned has been becoming steadily lower and lower … with the result that moderate freethinkers who have a conservative leaning have been largely cleansed from the RedState and fromm the Republican Party.

Whatever the merits of strict conservativism, the “cleansing of moderates” has been a disastrous political strategy.

Poster wasn't pushing "rage" as policy.

RMJ (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:28AM EST (link)

They were asking for rage against the idea of surrender.

I suspect you fully realize that but on the off chance you were actually confused……

How many Pro-Life Democrats can you name?

RMJ (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:33AM EST (link)

And you want to cast the GOP as “narrow”?

No, the GOP’s great sin is that we actually believe that there are moral rights and moral wrongs decided by a higher authority than the Democratic Party Platform or Michael Moore.

Why either/or?

joeljournal (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:33AM EST (link)

I am a huge fan of new ideas.

And I also think it is appropriate to get angry at times.

I am fed up with what’s going on and I’ve got ideas to change it.

Why must we choose one or the other? We need both.

Btw, I think this site is great. Why bash it?

Joel Pollak
Guide to the Perplexed
http://guidetotheperplexed.blogspot.com

 
 
 
 

The let power make them cocky and stupid so quickly.

29Victor (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:33AM EST (link)

In 2006 Democrats won Congress for no other reason than that the American people were mad at Bush and sick of the war. Am I the only one who remembers this?

The didn’t run on any liberal issues, in fact they ran a mess of conservative anti-war candidates. They ran on getting out of Iraq and ending corruption in Washington.

During the general election season Obama hasn’t run on any liberal issues. He stopped talking at length about universal healthcare and gutting the military as soon as he won the nomination.

Now he’s running against Bush, lying about his pro-choice record and pretending that he’s a conservative. He even portrays his massive middle-class hand out in terms of a 95% tax-cut.

The American people don’t subscribe to the Democrat,s core beliefs and they don’t agree with them on most issues. And the DNC knows this. That’s why they ran conservative Democrats in ’06 and that’s why Obama is running as a conservative now.

The only time Democrats have won anything since Jimmy Carter is when Americans are angry at Republicans. And when America gets angry at Republicans it’s usually because they aren’t acting like Republicans.

 

Brooks seems to be stating

ColoKid Sunday, October 26th at 11:34AM EST (link)

the so-called “pendulum” concept — that the electorate swung right for Reagan and the Bushes, and now it’s ready to swing back left. But he contradicts himself. He correctly characterizes the country as center-right. This doesn’t jive with a Democrat reign of 10-15 years. The country tried swinging back to what it thought was the center with Clinton, but it was deceived and swung right again with GWB. Yes, I think there is a tendency to swing left at this point, especially given the current financial/economic situation. But Obama is way too far left. If (a big if) he wins, he won’t be reelected. Even if McCain is able to pull out a victory, I think it increases the odds that a moderate Dem will be able to win in ’12. But that’s a long time off, and anything can happen in the meantime.

Please demonstrate

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:34AM EST (link)

How their policies actually differ. I don’t see very much daylight at all. Senators Clinton and Obama have very similar voting records and during the primaries had very nearly identical policy prescriptions.

Hey dude...

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:43AM EST (link)

Since you appear to be tracking who gets harpooned, do you have a list of “moderates” who’ve been nuked?

The “moderates” who exit here, in my memory, are typically pinheads who get their panties in a big wad when their mushy views aren’t accepted without question.

For one thing, Han, you can't make an illegal

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:48AM EST (link)

campaign donation on Hillary’s website, whereas you most certainly can on Obama’s.

She also never advocated, to my knowledge, a 25% reduction in military funding. Oh yeah, I don’t think she supported infanticide either. And that’s just off the top of my head.

Moderate = untethered by principles

stang (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:51AM EST (link)

The the only undergirding principles moderates hew to are being liked by everyone and getting re-elected. They are willing to compromise their principles for ego gratification and political expediency.

They are like a drunk driver, swerving down the road in both lanes while trying to straddle the two yellow lines in the middle.

“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence.”

John Locke

Only one of those works in the slightest

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 11:53AM EST (link)

Their websites are not their policy prescriptions. A cat is not a hairbrush. Barney Frank /= Barack Obama, so the 25% cut you’re talking about was from a person other than the person I was asking about. As to infanticide? Both are pro-choice. I understand you folks have decided you know better than anyone what Obama meant by that vote so I’m not going to argue that one.

Okay. So Hillary Clinton should put country ahead of party because she’s less pro-choice than Obama? Wake me when that happens.

 
 
 
 
 
 

Conservatism isn't dead

Arkie_Liberal Sunday, October 26th at 11:57AM EST (link)

But it’s changing. A movement that began in the US in opposition to communism and the New Deal killed one, but has more or less made peace with the other.

Had Bush governed more competently or as a conservative, things might have been different. But go back and look at this site–until the Harriet Miers nomination, Bush was rarely, if ever criticized in conservative circles (with some notable exceptions like Patrick Buchanan) even as he expanded the powers of the central government through a war on terrorism, no child left behind, and medicare part D.

What could have happened with the demise of communism was conservatism could have returned to its libertarian roots. But it didn’t.

Alas, I see no reason whatsoever to think it’s going to do that now. You people are far too eager to build walls, crawl into my bedroom, expand the military, and the enhance the supervisory capacity of the state.

Their websites are indicative of how they

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 12:04PM EST (link)

handle issues. Dishonesty in campaign donations–in large quantities to boot–indicates dishonesty in other areas as well. But if you want another policy difference, could you point out to me where Hillary Clinton ever advocated for the idea of a domestic military force as well armed and equipped as our other military?

There's a fascinating article...

LiberalNutJob Sunday, October 26th at 12:05PM EST (link)

…on the history of the parties here.

It’s long, and it was run by the W Post during the 2004 cycle, but I think it’s illuminating and pretty darn even-handed.

There are a number of interesting facets to the long-view historical perspective.

(This link, btw, isn’t offered as a snark to either side. Just to be clear. It really is interesting.)

Cheers all.

On your last paragraph

bobbymike (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 12:09PM EST (link)

In a normal election the media would have vetted Obama giving McCain a chance to be more positive and able to articulate his agenda.

McCain was forced to tell America who Obama is, had to in fact a patriot could do no less.

The best new idea

Achance (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 12:12PM EST (link)

is to try actually following the old ideas. And the best old idea is for the states to look to their own rather than to the federal government. The window is short for Democrat hegemony will give us USSC justices who are adamantly opposed to devolving power back to the states.

Even if we do win the WH and/or maintain filibuster power in the Senate, the only power we will have will be the ability to slow and moderate, not stop the onslaught. So, we should do what we can where we can and that is in the states that we still control. Even though The Contract was successful, it served to nationalize the Congressional election; I maintain that we should not do that. To the extent we can, we should begin taking steps to divorce state elections from federal elections. There is no doubt that there will be a major attempt at national registration and voting standards that will favor the ne’er do wells that form the D’s primary constituency and make fraud easier. I’d like to see state voting requirements as stringent as we can legally make them, then the US can have its national day of mob rule on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. I can go on, but no matter what happens on 11-4, conservatives and Republicans must spend some time tending our vegetables in the states.

In Vino Veritas

Nope. Can you?

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 12:12PM EST (link)

Show me where Senator Obama has advocated the creation of a:

“domestic military force as well armed and equipped as our other military?”

Look, if you’re going to jump in and answer a question I didn’t ask you, could you at least answer the question I asked? You are still throwing in issues of character and integrity. However meaningful and worthwhile that conversation might be, please consider how this tangent started. Another poster suggested that Senator Clinton put country ahead of party because she opposes Obama’s policies. I asked for a list of what policies she must disagree with.

If you think Obama wants another Air Force with F-22′s and Strykers, please give me some links. And then having done that, please tell me what’s evil about this proposal. And having done that, please tell me where I can find proof that Senator Clinton opposes such a program so vehemently that she prefers Senator McCain.

This is how the game is supposed to be played! If you’re going to try to take me down a peg you could do pretty well by actually responding to my question, especially in the context in which it was asked. Operation non-sequitur might be fun and all, but it’s not really productive.

Obama’s health care proposal is less liberal than Clinton’s was. Please remember that Senators Clinton and Edwards both attacked Obama for NOT including a mandate in his!

Republicans put up with more dissent from

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 12:14PM EST (link)

their members than does the Dem party. We have put up with politicians on our side who didn’t support the Iraq War, but look at the ones in the Dem party who did support it. Lieberman was frogmarched out the door as fast as possible for his support.

We, on the other hand, were saddled with Lincoln Chaffee until he finally decided not to run again.

Moderate = untethered by principles?

StudentOfLincoln (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 12:16PM EST (link)

What Stang and mbecker908 are saying amounts to this: “Moderate conservatives are not true conservatives.”

Stang says: “The only undergirding principles moderates hew to are being liked by everyone and getting re-elected. They are willing to compromise their principles for ego gratification and political expediency.”

mbecker908 says: “The “moderates” who exit here, in my memory, are typically pinheads who get their panties in a big wad when their mushy views aren’t accepted without question.

To refresh your memory, the essays of the Federalist Papers emphasize that the viability of the American system of government depends utterly upon rational debate, toleration of dissent, wise compromise among dissenting points of view, with carefully crafted checks and balances to limit the resulting power of government.

here's the cut speech

JoeG Sunday, October 26th at 12:33PM EST (link)

In the messiah’s own words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcqhoiK8-Ww

Here you go, Han.

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 12:34PM EST (link)

hotair.com

I may not have gotten the link correct as I am a novice at this, but will redo it if it comes out wrong. As to “trying to take you down a peg”, I’m not. You seem like a good enough sort, and I cannot understand why you would support a candidate as deeply dishonest as Obama has proven himself to be. And might I remind you that I didn’t trot over to HuffPo or DKos to challenge your choice of candidate, you are over here. For the record, I don’t consider this a game. This is the most consequential election we could possibly face at this point in history.

Which is why I cannot grasp why you are so sold on Obama.

Moderation in all things, even moderation

Canthros (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 12:41PM EST (link)

Most ‘moderates’ that pop up in politics are squishy, go-along-to-get-along sorts whose policy stands are undergirded less by principle and more by feeling. In practice, they seem a lot like the softer sort of Democrat, and perhaps the motivations are similar.

This doesn’t mean that there aren’t some hard-edged centrists about that are genuinely not at home in either party, having found their principles leading to, say, a pro-life stance while also supporting gay marriage initiatives. But they seem much less common than the former sort, so I don’t think it unreasonable (if unfair) to assume that a so-called moderate is more likely a squishy than a principled independent.

This too shall pass.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Follow The Money

dgm432 Sunday, October 26th at 1:13PM EST (link)

Just a thought that has gotten me in more trouble than an American should be when voicing an opinion, but the more they dish out the more I demand!

We all know or have our opinions on current events in the Housing, Financial and general health of our country. We also know that media time and exposure is what moves Americans in one direction or another…its been proven by ad agencies hundreds of times.

With all this information being common sense and research…one must look at the bottom-line…which in America is ‘Money’. This said; who has the most to Lose with McCain and Palin in Washington….OPEC countries!

OPEC can flip our stock market on its head, and most-likely have been doing it.

Our nation sends Hundreds of Billions of dollars monthly to these OPEC countries, and they will gain the best of all worlds if someone like Obama gets into the White House. They can not only continue raping Americans for OIL, but they will get America out of that part of the World.

So Obama makes claims that he raised another $109 million dollars for advertising in the month of September…that is about a half billion dollars or more to date.

I know we have regulations concerning financing…but Obama didn’t follow McCains leads with Government financing…so McCain must account of every dime….not Obama. And, from Obama’s past history with answering questions…don’t expect him to give you anything more than Double talk.

My wife is concerned I will end up dead for this questioning. I told her I am an American, I served this nation in Uniform and gave an oath to protect it…so if by chance death is the price…so be it!

None blinder than those who will not see. nt

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 1:22PM EST (link)

nt

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

Amen, brother Rick. n/t

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 1:29PM EST (link)

I am a moderate conservative, and find RS to be quite congenial.

streetwise (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 1:38PM EST (link)

But then our camdidate is one, too.

 
 
 
 

Tell it to Jindal and Ryan

Robert L. Mayo (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:06PM EST (link)

“It’s become intellectually exhausted, incurious…”

Tell it to Bobby Jindal and Paul Ryan.

Regardless of what happens on Nov. 4th, the future of the Republican party will be bright if we listen to brilliant conservative leaders like these.

The sooner people like Jindal and Ryan take over the party, the better.

Robert L. Mayo
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men.
- Goethe

you're a moderate?

Lord_Vegas (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:17PM EST (link)

AW, now you tell me. I really liked you, too!

__________
When I was your age….heck, I was NEVER your age

===========================
The Minority Report Network
===========================

You are exactly correct

Aetius728 Sunday, October 26th at 2:37PM EST (link)

What people these days truly care about are economic issues. I have been screaming on these pages before, and nobody seems to get it that the reason a dangerously inexperienced and radical young senator is poised to become president is because people believe he will fix the economy(what does that mean? You won’t believe how many people I have heard that from.)

They think that Republicans created this crisis. They think that the last 8 years would have been better for them and the national debt would not exist except for the tax cuts for “the rich.”
They think that all the good jobs are going overseas.(at least here in the rust belt.) They want healthcare to be more affordable-but haven’t heard a bit from McCain. The people living in my area at least(Western PA) now believe that their benefits are goint to be taxed and the $5000 goes “straight to the insurance company.” McCain did not define his healthcare plan. It would have been easy-on a commercial explain his plan and that it would be a tax cut for most people, and explain the need to create competition. Tell people he wants every insurance company in the country to compete for their business. But he and his campaign were to stupid to realize that, and now Barack Obama has successfully defined McCain’s plan as taxing people more and helping insurance companies.

It seems to me that most conservative voices, those few pundits in the MSM, the grassroots on other blogs, even those here don’t understand that. It is hard with the MSM, but it has been accomplished in the past. Why didn’t(to give an example) McCain explain to people during the debate that cutting the corporate tax will raise income? He should no that the reaction of many, especially those infected with liberal or union thinking would be that corporations would simply keep more money, and therefore explain that companies compete for labor and customers and would be forced to pass on savings? Thankfully he did mention that it would help us compete with other companies. That is merely an example.
Forgive me, but where are our politicians with balls, who will stand up there in a debate and look right into the camera and explain that any fool can promise to make life better by beating up on the rich and Wall Street? And then the have the ability to explain why this is not the case?

Meanwhile, we can have all the ideological battles we want, we can post long thoughtful items on various studies and issues(not trying to discourage this) but Republicans wake up and realize why we are getting beat so badly, it will do nothing but get worse.

 
 
 

Brooks is Right

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 2:41PM EST (link)

David Brooks is making some good points. Read his article in the New York Times about how McCain ceded the middle. Let’s all be real here. George Bush’s favorability ratings have displayed that the American public is angered with the status quo. Any Republican was up against a mountain to climb this year. The primaries produced the one Republican, who could separate himself and maybe pull off a win. But for some reason, instead of going toward the center, as most do in the General, he ran to the right. Now, that might make plenty of you on this site ecstatic, but it was not the way to win the White House.

Whether the electorate has become center-left for just this election or for a good time coming, they wanted a progressive candidate to get out of the status quo. That is why McCain was picked, because he has been seen as a Maverick, but Palin sunk that ship. She was great for him for about 2 weeks, but then her image began to unravel. People see her as unready, too far to the right. Her pick has developed into an abandonment of McCain’s argument of experience and judgment. She has become the biggest lag on his candidacy and has been the primary reason for many moderates, like Gen. Powell, and conservatives, like Chris Buckley, for endorsing Obama.

There is something noble about going down with the ship with “rage,” but you don’t win that way. McCain would have had a better chance by picking a Ridge or a Lieberman. Yes, the base would have been upset, but would they really vote for Obama? Probably not. Then McCain could have hammered the argument that his ticket was the moderate-pragmatic way to restore this country, while Obama and Biden are too liberal for pragmatic leadership. He could have easily painted them as too far left. Unfortunately for him, however, he has decided to make this election into Right vs. Left, when the Country is tired of the last 8 years of Bush.

The gamble is not paying off.

You have flamed out pretty fast, GMULAW2010.

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:47PM EST (link)

Brooks was NOT right, Brooks is only considered a conservative by those on the left. To us, he’s just a liberal Republican, not something we admire or quote or pay any attention to.

Ridge or Lieberman? Puhleeze. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Lieberman?

David Hinz (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:49PM EST (link)

I think I need some coffee. This was meant for Nick, not GMULAWwhatever.

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:51PM EST (link)

Or a Scooby Snack or 2 hahahaha

PaRep (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:53PM EST (link)

one in the same

David Hinz (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:56PM EST (link)

he cannot seem to settle on a name. Or perhaps he believed he could change the name back and forth to create different “voices” without realizing it would change all of his previous posts as well.

Hmmm, seems he might have been trying some hijinks.

PaRep, I didn't make a mistake after all. Click on the user profile for either one of them.

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:57PM EST (link)

He registered and brought his own sock puppet along, too. Bad, bad choice.

PaRep, I didn't make a mistake after all. Click on the user profile for either one of them.

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:58PM EST (link)

He registered and brought his own sock puppet along, too. Bad, bad choice.

PaRep, I didn't make a mistake after all. Click on the user profile for either one of them.

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 2:58PM EST (link)

He registered and brought his own sock puppet along, too. Bad, bad choice.

I swear I only hit the button once. Honest. n/t

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:01PM EST (link)

Agree!

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:09PM EST (link)

We need to take every opportunity to remove power from the central govt and put it back in state and local hands, win or lose in this election.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

Maybe he is like Sybil

PaRep (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:13PM EST (link)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

to janis

IndyCon Sunday, October 26th at 3:14PM EST (link)

Maybe your comment about Brooks is tongue and cheek, and if so, forgive me for being dense.

If you’re being sincere, then I respectfully ask you to consider the following:

Labeling people and then dismissing them because their ideology doesn’t suit you is self-defeating.

If you don’t agree with David Brooks that the Conservative movement is in decline, that’s great, but take on the argument, not the man or the label you’ve chosen to give him.

I happen to think this rhetorical approach, and the thought process it belies, is an important challenge for Conservatism going forward. Perhaps it’s what Brooks is talking about when he says that the GOP is no longer curious.

Well said

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:17PM EST (link)

“untethered by principles”, hope you don’t mind if I use that. Usually I say “moderate = lukewarm”. Some people don’t get my reference.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

Let me see If I get this right

PaRep (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:22PM EST (link)

You Janis to argue with David(Palin is a Cancer on the Party)Brooks who is the TOKEN R at the Democrat house Paper the New York Slimes on whether Conservatism is on the decline?????????

UMMMMMMMMM OTAY BUCKWHEAT whatever you say is right in your world

My comment about Brooks was exactly what I meant.

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:25PM EST (link)

His notion of conservatism is not MY notion of conservatism. Conservatism when adhered to wins every time. Conservatism diluted and mislabeled loses. Many people here, IndyCon, share exactly the same opinion that I do about David Brooks.

As to what Brooks said about conservatism being no longer curious, what exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? That conservatives don’t question, that we are not interested in furthering our knowledge of the world? No. It means, in the way that Brooks uses it, that conservatism does not embrace moderation or squishiness. And that is something I admire. Conservatism has principles. To move away from those principles is to become more liberal. And that is David Brooks–squishy and liberal.

 
 
 
 

I prefer to think the Conservative movement is dormant...

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:28PM EST (link)

rather than in decline. Our problem is that we have no prominent leader who is grounded in Classic Liberal principles. There are none that come readily to my mind at the moment who articulate those principles.

There are plenty of citizens who agree on those principles, however.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

This was meant for IndyCon

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:35PM EST (link)

nt

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

Right!

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:37PM EST (link)

The root word is “conserve”.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

Well, we do kind of have a leader for conservatism,

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:40PM EST (link)

we just couldn’t get him on the ballot this year. That would be Fred, of course. He is the embodiment of classic conservative principles, and he articulates them beautifully.

 
 
 
 

the overall issue

Human Torch (I'm on fire) Sunday, October 26th at 3:44PM EST (link)

I think the argument that DB is making that is being echoed by others like Frum is that the paradigm ha shifted and it is not de primarily to temporary circumstances represented by the economic climate we find ourselves in.
Fatigue has set in from the war both the military misadventures and the warring factions inside our cuture. The republican’s strategy of divide and win has exacted a price on the public’s tolerance of discord and division as a way of living in the world. It has been painful and they are looking for a way out of the pain. We tend to gravitate to the status quo except to escape discomfort. Bush actually help create the opportunity os a Obama presidency by the extreme level of dissatisfaction he was able to create. If Bush’s approval rating were at 45%, we would not be looking at BO as the next president.

the world will only give us what we have the audacity to ask of it

I say have NOT kinda have, Janis

pilgrim (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:58PM EST (link)

I think now about the attacks on Fred Thompson for being too lazy to hold interviews with the Washington columnists, and appear on all of the TV talk shows when I read the trashing Sarah Palin receives from David Brooks et al. I remember Fred much rather preferred meeting with local newspaper reporters and local organizations instead of the Washington elites.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

Yes, Fred was my choice

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 3:58PM EST (link)

But, unfortunately, he is more advocate and communicator than leader. He might be a leader to my age group, but I don’t know how he resonates with the under 40 demographic.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

The fly in the ointment here is that Congress

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 4:03PM EST (link)

has an lower approval level than Bush does. And Congress has been run by the Dems for the last two years while gas prices doubled and the economy headed into the tank.

The biggest mistake that you can tag President Bush with is that he didn’t stand up and fight against the onslaught of the MSM and the Dems for the past 8 years.

Yeah, pilgrim, I know. I just figured if I declared

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 4:06PM EST (link)

Fred to be our official leader then one of these commenters would jump on that because he hasn’t been elected to be our leader.

But he has my vote–for anything and always.

 
 
 
 
 

We need to redefine the party to expand it.

Staunch_Libertarian (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 4:31PM EST (link)

I’m not trying to offend anyone, but we must focus more on liberty than the social issues. The younger the voter the less they care about abortion, gay marriage, or prayer in school. Within a generation a party based on that agenda will go the way of the Whigs.

————————————————————-
I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.

Exactly

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 4:35PM EST (link)

McCain should have kept Mike Murphy and run as the positive progressive Republican. He would be doing much better and he would have retained the admiration that democrats like me had for him in 2000.

Exactly

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 4:36PM EST (link)

McCain should have kept Mike Murphy and run as the positive progressive Republican. He would be doing much better and he would have retained the admiration that democrats like me had for him in 2000.

 
 
 

someone please explain

Human Torch (I'm on fire) Sunday, October 26th at 4:37PM EST (link)

To me conservative principals
means smaller less intrusive government, fiscally responsible economic policies and a strong defense. Today we have a government that wants to spy on us, huge budget deficits with out of control spending and a military so stretched that if a threat were to arrive on our shores we would have a real problem defending the homeland. Because social conservatives highjacked the party for 8 years and the neoconservatives got us in to war, the party is so fratured
that it calls for a major overhaul of the brand to ride the wave of changing public priority. The public now sees the Repubican party as the party of creationism, evangelicals,
intolerance and gun enthusiests not the Goldwater tenents of conservative principals These are the wedge issues that were used for political expediency
to win elections and now thay have become synonymous with the GOP brand. Short term benefit
with long term consequences.

the world will only give us what we have the audacity to ask of it

Art, yes that is the answer.

AKSteveB (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 4:37PM EST (link)

As a matter of fact it is the answer no matter who governs at the Federal level. It is the only way we are ever going to get past some of this culture war stuff. Let San Francisco be San Francisco, let Alaska be Alaska.

“The 10th amendment, it’s not just a good idea, it’s the law”

Hell is other people – Sartre

Exactly

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 4:39PM EST (link)

McCain should have kept Mike Murphy and run as the positive progressive Republican. He would be doing much better and he would have retained the admiration that democrats like me had for him in 2000.

Canthros, wow

AKSteveB (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 4:51PM EST (link)

I don’t see that at all. One can be a centrist or moderate conservative out of conviction, not just a desire to get along. It also has little to do with party per se. There are plenty of “Blue Dog Democrats” who are moderate conservative.

The issue is really ideologue vs. non ideologue. The example I always use is “the right to health care.” I don’t believe there is one, and I imagine the majority of people on redstate agree. I also can’t ignore the bottom line that some consensus has been reached in this country that the right does exist, so I see it being much more useful to fight for a plan that provides the least government interference (Romney’s in Mass. for example).

I see this as a conservatism in the tradition of Russell Kirk, as reflected in the following paragraph:

What is conservatism? I believe it to be an approach, a style, a sentiment, a bias: against efforts of utopianism, against ideology, and against the promise of a bright new future casting aside considerations of human nature. If a policy, a custom, a norm, a tradition, an institution does not violate the natural rights and has suited the past – if these belonged to your father and grandfather and great grandfather – it is to be granted, across the generations, a high status of received wisdom worthy of commitment against movements that would seek to alter them so as to pursue ideological aims.

Hell is other people – Sartre

Demographics are not on our side

Aurelian Sunday, October 26th at 4:53PM EST (link)

First of all, Brooks is no conservative. Anyone who is okay with judicially-imposed gay marriage/civil unions is no conservative.

Sadly, however, he may be right about an emerging Democratic hold on power in Washington. Thanks to our largely accidental, and mostly unwanted policy of unending mass immigration (legal and illegal), the demographics of the nation are moving steadily towards the Left. Growing Hispanic populations will complete the transition of Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, and New Mexico into purple states. In times, Texas may even become a battleground state once winning 70+% of the white can no longer guarantee victory. A combination of foreign immigration and migration from other states will do the same to states like Virginia and North Carolina.

In short, Republicans plus Reagan Democrats are becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of the population. As this happens, the country will likely move from a naturally center-right nation to a manufactured center-left nation.

I really hope I’m wrong about this, by the way.

understand

Human Torch (I'm on fire) Sunday, October 26th at 4:59PM EST (link)

but the public is not blaming the dem congress. Perception is reality.

the world will only give us what we have the audacity to ask of it

Are Obama's ideas

diggingintothefacts (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 5:07PM EST (link)

new? Seems to me they are same old, same old radical-left concepts. Even the words “change” and “hope” are old rhetoric. The only new element here is the audience.

Maybe what you REALLY find exciting is Obama himself? You’ll get over that puppy love soon enough.

about demographics, aurelian who will multiply through procreation?

pilgrim (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 5:08PM EST (link)

Will it be the leftys who believe in abortion on demand and same sex marriage? I don’t think so.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

Janis, you just can't

AKSteveB (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 5:09PM EST (link)

win with a party based on the Pat Buchanan right. You can’t win when you have a v.p. candidate who scares many of otherwise Republican voters. The fact that McCain has stayed close, in a year where the Republican brand is so damaged, is based on his occasional differences with Republican Orthodoxy (key word “occasional”, the idea that he is not a mainstream conservative is laughable). “The base” forced him to run to the right in the general election, while letting Obama tack center. That is a disaster. Reagan said he didn’t leave the Democrats, the Democrats left him. I think you have a situation where the David Brooks types haven’t left the Republicans, the Republicans left him.

Here is another quote from a previously mentioned article on Russell Kirk, “Conservatism is opposition to all forms of political religion.” I hope people remember that. Religion and morality are valid places for absolutes, politics is the art of the possible.

Hell is other people – Sartre

Paranoia?

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 5:09PM EST (link)

Stop with the paranoia. I’ve been reading this site since I heard about it about a month ago. I made an account to post on this topic, because I had just read Brooks’ article in the Times. After I made this post I then made a profile, which means that all my posts after my initial one will have the name “Nick” and not “GMULAW2010.”

I’m not some troll on here posting liberal spam and rants. People on this site aren’t going to be swayed by what I have to say, but I joined because I like to have good debates with those that oppose my views. Isn’t that the whole point of having a political position? Also, I feel like I can be objective when I need to be. So this is what I think about McCain’s pick of Palin and why it was a mistake.

You can’t get to the White House without winning the election, right? And so far Palin has hurt McCain more than it has helped McCain. I’m not making this up. It is in every poll for about the last month that her negatives are above her positives and that more and more people find her to be unqualified. The public is not happy with Bush and Palin doesn’t help McCain get away from Bush’s philosophy. Finally, since picking Palin, McCain has turned to culture war type campaigning that is just outdated for this time period. The issues are so huge that people are tuning out his attacks, his negatives are growing and he is losing independents.

These are the facts and I think, as many others do, that if McCain had picked someone else, like Ridge (I’ll admit Lieberman is a stretch) he would be doing better. Also if he wanted to pick a woman to stir things up, why not Sen. Dole or Hutchinson? Maybe not Hutchinson because she is pro-choice, but Dole would have done well. She would have attracted a lot of the disaffected Hillary voters, because she is older and experienced like Clinton. She also worked for reform with energy and campaign finance. She has the name recognition and she ran for President in 2000. Plus, North Carolina would not be in play for Obama.

You want to just dismiss this as some troll garbage that is fine, but narrow-minded-us-versus-them type thinking that is occurring in the Republican Party today is the reason why it is in so much trouble. Republicans are divided between people like Rush Limbaugh and people like David Brooks. One side says attack Obama’s associations and appeal to Joe six-packs, while the other is saying we need to focus on the issues and appeal to the moderates in the country. The former rejects the latter and the latter is getting disgusted by its party. That is the reality of the Republican Party moving forward. Maybe you need to start listening to people like David Brooks or else find yourselves in a long exile from power.

more

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 5:16PM EST (link)

Looking at the comments to this story itself – See StudentofLincoln – it seems that I don’t need to pontificate on the splintering of the party.

Problem

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 5:37PM EST (link)

The problem is that as the generations pass the principles to which you adhere become outdated and will appeal to a smaller and smaller group of people. Conservatives want to keep the status quo and Progressives want to change the status quo. People usually fear change, but change is inevitable. Older generations grow older and die off, as new generations come to power. Right now 18-30 year olds are voting for Obama by a 65/35 split and unless the Conservative movement updates itself on issues like health care and the environment it will become a dying breed. Just ask the Whig party how their candidate is doing this year.

that was then

Human Torch (I'm on fire) Sunday, October 26th at 5:41PM EST (link)

when the pinto was the best selling car, Steve Perry was fronting Journey and GM was the leading auto maker. The Republicans need a brand makeover bad! It’s gotten kinda creepy and conflated with religion, gays and imperialistic misadventures (war). Better to look to Apple than Reagan and rehabilitate the image. Conservative is sexy! The public has a short attention span, it won’t take that long. Could be ready by 2012. and no more old white guys.

the world will only give us what we have the audacity to ask of it

I am not a Buchanan Republican. Nor are most of the conservatives here

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 5:42PM EST (link)

going to classify themselves as such. Please don’t give me that crap about Sarah Palin scaring away other Republicans. She has reignited a huge part of the party, brought in others who might have stayed away otherwise, and has also been a homing beacon for many women who might not have voted at all. And not just PUMAs, either.

She, Bobby Jindahl, Eric Cantor, etc.–those are the ones we will look to for leadership in the years to come. If that doesn’t suit you and David Brooks, that’s tough. If winning means throwing out every single governing principle that a person believes in, what have you won?

Jindal

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 5:46PM EST (link)

You’ve got Bobby Jindal

Jindal

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 5:46PM EST (link)

You’ve got Bobby Jindal

AKSteve....did you just say Obama tacked center?

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 5:54PM EST (link)

How much of the kool-aid have you been drinking…..Obama is the same damn leftist in the general as he was in the primary….JOE THE PLUMBER proved it….and Buchannan RIGHT?….you delude yourself to think that Sarah Palin is anything close to that….personally I think you NO NOTHING about the conservative party at all and play like you do.

Principles become outdated as the years pass?

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 6:01PM EST (link)

That must be how the Dem party got to where it is today. It used to be the party of strong national defense, a party that fought for the “little guy”, a party that supported the trade unions–and, oh, by the way, it was also the party that opposed Civil Rights.

And now it is the party of surrender and run away, a party that supports union leadership over the union members, a party that abhors free trade and a party that wants to deal with our enemies in ways that would make people like Scoop Jackson and JFK apoplectic with rage and embarrassment. It is also the party that considers partial birth abortion to be a woman’s “right” and gay marriage to be a sacrament on par with traditional marriage.

You’re full of crap. That too blue-collar for you? Tough.

The Fred I know

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 6:06PM EST (link)

is here.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

I'm not talking about status quo!

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 6:15PM EST (link)

I’m talking about principles! Progressives are not in agreement on our principles upon which the country was founded. Read my diary from Friday!

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

This is what I mean

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 6:21PM EST (link)

regarding “conserve”.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

Agreed, staunch libertarian

bcb1 (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 6:23PM EST (link)

The younger generation…I suppose I’d define that as under 30 (maybe under 25); I can’t see really caring at all about gay marriage, school prayer, and abortion will always be an issue, but it’s not a defining issue with the young crowd like it is with the 40+ year old folks.

I remember picking up my daughter from high school one day towards the end of the school year last year, and I saw a couple of lesbian girls kissing…in front of the school! No big deal; no one made an issue of it. When I asked my daughter, she shrugged and said there’s lots of gay guys and girls; who cares. That’s a big change of mind since the early 80′s when I graduated.

you might be right

David Hinz (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 6:29PM EST (link)

as generations pass, and the government becomes more important to our lives — welfare, WIC, preschool daycare, school lunch program, public K-12 indoctination education, government low interest college loans, gov backed housing, gov backed home loan, gov backed health insurance, gov mandated and backed 401k, gov social security… gov death benefits…

all we need to do is give away our freedoms, most of them are outdated anyway. 1st amendment? who needs religion or offensive political speech. 2nd amendment? no need for guns, the government will take care of us. all that other stuff… the government will provide…

A couple things

Canthros (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:01PM EST (link)

I never said that were no principled moderates, only that they seem vastly outnumbered by the squishy sort.

On the whole, I don’t think we disagree, but I would contend that conservatism is, nonetheless, not without its principles, however they may be derived. I sincerely doubt that Kirk would disagree with me on that.

This too shall pass.

Do your homework

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 7:01PM EST (link)

On Civil Rights: Civil Rights? Maybe in the 1860′s, but ever since LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it has been the Democrats at the forefront of civil rights. Also, this contention seems to be contradicted by your later statement that democrats support gay marriage, which is a civil rights issue. So they oppose civil rights, while supporting civil rights? Obama doesn’t support marriage. He supports civil unions and legal rights for partners for things like children, wills, etc.

On Abortion: Obama doesn’t support partial birth abortions and believes that they should be restricted (http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm). Illegalizing abortion does not mean that there will be no abortion. That is a common misconception. Just like there is a market for illegal drugs; there will be a market for illegal abortions. As there was before Roe v. Wade. What a lot of pro-choicers like Barack believe is that choice should remain legal, but that unwanted pregnancies that lead to abortion, need to be prevented.

From BarackObama.com -> Barack Obama is an original co-sponsor of legislation to expand access to contraception, health information and preventive services to help reduce unintended pregnancies. Introduced in January 2007, the Prevention First Act will increase funding for family planning and comprehensive sex education that teaches both abstinence and safe sex methods. The Act will also end insurance discrimination against contraception, improve awareness about emergency contraception, and provide compassionate assistance to rape victims.

On Foreign Policy: Bush’s cowboy diplomacy has only created enemies around the world and being stuck in the mid-east is allowing al-qaeda to recruit more easily with increased anti-American sentiment. Bush has opened high level talks with Iran and North Korea; he has made targeted strikes on the Afghan-Pakistan border; and he is negotiating a “Time Horizon” in order to bring our troops home in Iraq. Obama called for policies similar to these a year ago and was called naive, yet, the administration moves closer to his positions.

Obama will also be tough on Pakistan. Bush putting all over our eggs into Musharref’s basket was a failure in judgment as he has done little with the $10 billion we gave him to fight extremists. Like JFK being more hawkish on Missile Defense in comparison to Nixon, Obama is being more hawkish towards Pakistan and Al-Qaeda on the Afghan-Pakistan border. This helps shore up the perceived weakness of Democrats with national defense.

Before you just say things you should learn about what the other side’s policies are. Lest you contradict yourself.

that should be "know" NOTHING

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:05PM EST (link)

thanks for finally tipping your hand

David Hinz (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:10PM EST (link)

You are really carried away with yourself, aren't you?

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:24PM EST (link)

On civil rights, the Dems had to be carried kicking and screaming to pass that. LBJ championed it only when he saw which way the wind was blowing. Do your own homework, little man. And even after he passed it, it was Dems like George Wallace who vowed never to allow integration of schools. He was a Dem, was he not?

To compare the gay marriage issue to civil rights for blacks is ridiculous. And don’t even bother to quote from Obama’s campaign website. Issues and his stance on them come and go from that place as often as is convenient for him. To state with a straight face that Obama doesn’t support partial birth abortion is the biggest lie you could possibly type here. Not only has he supported it, but he is on tape asserting that to have a doctor treat a baby born live from one of these atrocious procedures would place an additional “burden” on the original decision to abort.

On foreign policy, the man is a disaster. He claimed that he would unilaterally send troops into Pakistan without bothering to ask Pakistan if that was okay. As John McCain told him one of the debates, “You don’t do that.” Meaning that if you HAD to do that, you don’t telegraph it first. Not only does it put us in a bad light, but it makes the leader of Pakistan immediately go on the defensive in order to protect himself with the radical Islamists in his country.

And don’t ever again tell me to do my homework, you ignorant little law student. You are in OUR house here, and only on our sufferance. I predict that you won’t last very long.

Not what I was saying

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 7:29PM EST (link)

You know that is not what I was saying. First of all, Liberals have always clamored for First Amendment rights. Secondly, the Second Amendment issue is now over. The SCOTUS has ruled definitively in the DC Gun Case that we all have a right to bear arms, while government has the right for common sense gun laws. I think we would all agree that the gun laws of Wyoming shouldn’t be replicated in D.C. and that there should be common sense checks to filter out the felons and the crazies.

I believe that conservative principles in government’s control in our lives remain more static than conservative principles, when it comes to social issues. Free market, small government conservative values will probably remain, but social issues tend to progress. Younger generations are more inclined to support gay marriage, universal healthcare and abortion rights. Yes, there will be those who oppose this, but, like I was saying, as time goes by those who oppose such rights will die off and their numbers will
become to low to form a majority.

Just look at our history:
- Slavery was ended, Jim Crow was ended, the Civil Rights Act was signed and now we have an African-American running for President. Elected or not, this shows a progress on the social issue of race.
- Women were denied the right to vote, they were given the right to vote and now women hold many positions in high office.
- Gay rights used to be nonexistent and now 3 Supreme Courts have called bans on gay marriage unconstitutional and more and more states are recognizing partners’ legal rights.
- Marijuana laws are now starting to be relaxed and many in government are calling for marijuana reform in order to unclog the justice system.
- Straddling social and fiscal issues are things like Social Security and Medicare. Now there is a growing majority of Americans wanting universal healthcare.

The changes that are going on in regards to these social issues are certainly progressive and not conservative. So, what I am saying is that, as more young people, who agree with these positions in larger numbers, grow older and create the next generation, the conservative movement needs to also move ahead or else it will not have the majority needed to get elected. This is just reality. What was liberal 100 years ago, like the idea of social security, is a staple to people today. Society is shifting and you need to evolve in order to exist in the future.

Glad to see that Obama ONLY supports infanticide, Nick

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:30PM EST (link)

Imagine my relief that he doesn’t support partial birth abortion. He prefers that the baby be delivered and left to die, rather than crushing the skull.

You don’t really think that we are going to buy this crap are you? You seem to miss the whole point of our objections to Obama. We don’t trust him, due to his refusal to conduct a transparent campaign, his associations with terrorist, criminals and racists, and his complete lack of experience. His “promises” on a web site are worthless, just like his promise on FISA and public financing were worthless.

Really annoys me that even some of our resident Democrats don’t understand this basic point.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

Yeah we will listen to David Brooks when WE decide....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:31PM EST (link)

to be part of the media elite…..UNTIL than you go ahead and stay a “moderate” which really just comes down to someone who cannot settle on on set of principles and WE the conservative base will DECIDE to appreciate the pick of Sarah Palin……and oh by the way if the conservative lady scares you JUST keep the lights on!

That wasn't wise

Bill S (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:35PM EST (link)

Quoting from the Democryte “Talking Point-o-Matic” is an offense that will bump you out of here right quick.

“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins

haha

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 7:36PM EST (link)

I’m not paid. I wish I was, though.

Give Obama a break, Dave

Jack_Savage (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:40PM EST (link)

I truly believe he is such a lightweight he doesn’t exactly know WHAT he believes, so we shouldn’t be mean to him until he figures it out.

I swear to God this whole election is beyond Orwellian.

What sticks in my craw, Jack

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 7:53PM EST (link)

Is when people come here talking about what a brilliant campaign Obama has run. What total tripe. His campaign is a shambles, and if he does manage to pull this out, he will be limping over the finish line just like in the primaries.

His entire campaign is based on the assumption that no one in the media will ever ask him a question. If anyone does, he goes and throws a tantrum.

What a complete loser and terrible candidate he is. I personally could run in his place and win 350 EVs, given all the fawning coverage by the MSM. And that is WITH and ex-wife that would be going on every cable network to bad mouth me.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

So dismissive

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 7:59PM EST (link)

Yes, George Wallace was a democrat, but he ran as an independent in 1968 and democrats like him weren’t democrats any longer. The Democrats made the move to support Civil Rights and it lost a lot of its conservative and southern constituents. Its also the reason Democrats have had trouble in the South since ’64. This is similar to the splintering of the Republican party right now.

Gay marriage is a civil rights issue. Is it as important as slavery, no, but it still pertains to the civil rights of about 10% of America’s citizenry.

On the infanticide charge that is thrown around the fact is that Obama didn’t support that law because he saw that it could be used to circumvent a woman’s right to choose AND because there was a law on the books already that made doctors care for abortion failures. Thus, just because he voted against it, doesn’t mean he supported infanticide, when not caring for the baby was illegal in the first place. Nice try though, but you can’t pick apart votes without the context in which they sit.

On Pakistan that is his position that he articulated it during a debate and although McCain says you shouldn’t talk about it, he didn’t disagree with it. Talking about that during a debate is not broadcasting the time, place and manner in which a President Obama would do so. Furthermore, we have done this in the Bush administration, so I don’t think Pakistan has been shocked or tipped off by Obama’s position on fighting terror on their border with Afghanistan. And I’m sorry, but if we see Bin Laden or Al-Qaeda recruiting centers on the border, we shouldn’t hesitate on taking him out.

When you are wrong on something, taking something out of context, or making something up I will tell you to do your homework. Ignorance is yelling this is MY HOUSE, while dismissing valid points (be it liberal, moderate, or conservative) and or replying with falsities. Thanks for your “sufferance,” but I didn’t know disagreement was a bad thing on a forum meant to express one’s ideas.

My point was:

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 8:00PM EST (link)

Obviously the base appreciates Palin, but you can’t be in the White House unless you win the election and you can’t win the election with just the base.

Exactly right

Jack_Savage (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:02PM EST (link)

I am not a big conspiracy guy or much of a whiner, but the whole rickety Obama machine looks exactly like communism, right down to state-run media, and, well, its rickety-ness. Of course, thuggery makes up for a lot of slick, and Obama has thuggery in spades.

I believe it was Kruschev who said that communism would defeat America from within, and I believe the old bastard was right. We’re seeing it before our eyes.

So are you saying the even Obama is Bush's fault?

Danielle Davis (ocleverone) (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:03PM EST (link)

.

To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher

Let me go down your list here

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:06PM EST (link)

1st Amendment rights: How does the Fairness Doctrine square with the 1st Amendment?

2nd Amendment: The issue won’t be so settled with an Obama-Biden win.

Many of the issues you go on to list should be left to localities and states, not imposed at federal level. Beyond that, I think you extrapolate from your own circle way too much if you think the majority of the country has ‘progressed’ in their social values as much as you purport.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

RedState is for the promotion of the Republican Party and

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:07PM EST (link)

conservative values. You are not here for either of those, so, yes, you are here on sufferance.

All else you have listed are just, as bs noted, Dem rant-o-matic talking points. And, also as he noted, you are not wise to do this.

One more word on Obama’s stance on abortion–he voted for partial birth abortion more than once. “Illegal” to treat a live baby just because it survived the abortion? How utterly bereft of any humanity or morality could you be to support that viewpoint. Our conversation is over. You are as monstrous as the candidate you are flakking for.

Another quote

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:13PM EST (link)

“There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our overthrow. Our destruction, should it ever come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence.” -Daniel Webster

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

Jaded, he's an Obama supporter. Says so

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:17PM EST (link)

on his profile. Arguing with him is hopeless. He’s not here to learn anything, he’s a law student who just wants to argue and defend Obama’s indefensible behavior and issues.

Please

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 8:17PM EST (link)

Spare the faux outrage. You just harp on the fact that he voted against a law that contained a provision making it illegal for doctor’s to take care of abortion surviving babies, but leave out the fact that Illinois had a law on the books containing this exact provision. Your contentions are extremely misleading and narrow. Laws don’t become stronger when you put duplicates on the books.

yep

Human Torch (I'm on fire) Sunday, October 26th at 8:18PM EST (link)

without a Bush, there would have never been a Obama selected as the dem nominee

the world will only give us what we have the audacity to ask of it

the polls man!

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 8:19PM EST (link)

The numbers don’t lie and the numbers don’t agree with you. Obama and Biden are winning the I’s by 20 points.

I assure the outrage is quite genuine. n/t

janis (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:21PM EST (link)

lol

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 8:22PM EST (link)

I learn from the articles. I argue with the comments.

and in that you have shown yourself to be a tool!

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:24PM EST (link)

Which polls do you want to chat about sparky? for every poll you find that says that I will match you a poll that says differently….so go to your church of Socialism and say a prayer for your Imitation Christ as for US here we will get out the vote and send the bogus leftist back from the hellhole from whence he came!

Is that good enough debate for you?

fairness doctrine

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 8:28PM EST (link)

I think that it is a very stupid thing that some want to do. I would hope that it never comes up for a vote and that if it does it fails. I may not agree with Rush or Hannity, but stifling their speech is just plain wrong. Freedom of Speech should always exist, unless it is inciting violence. If it comes up for a vote and a democratic congress passes it, I will be very disappointed in them.

On the Second Amendment, yes, Obama and dems might stack it with anti-gun justices, but that is doubtful. The Court also will rarely overturn precedent in such a short period of time unless the first case was decided very badly. The DC Gun case was a moderate decision giving deference to both our right to bear arms and the govt.’s need to protect citizens. Democrats have learned that rejecting guns is toxic in elections and I doubt that any future President, Dem or Repub, would try to overturn that decision. The gun argument is essentially over.

(Comments wont nest below this level)

You're an O-bot who won't read this, but I'll post it anyway

Bill S (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:28PM EST (link)

for the benefit of the rest the non-infanticide supporters out there:

Obama’s Abortion Extremism

Your talking points are useless. Your Messiah’s positions are quite plain. He is an abortion-promoting extremist.

If I thought you had a Christian bone in your body, I’d say this applies to you

The One’s position on abortion is all anyone need know. It indicates what an evil man he is. All the rest of his shady activity, his Marxist/Socialist belief system, his lies about his past relationships, all are simply symptoms of the same issue – he is an immoral, sick individual. Abortion is the canary in the coal mine.

“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins

I am, however, a cat supremacist. o canine one, so not moderate in everything!

streetwise (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:32PM EST (link)

nt

The gun argument was over with the 2nd Amendment, as far as I'm concerned

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:36PM EST (link)

But my comments earlier were not about the DC ban specifically, but the Right to Bear Arms in general. There are a great many ways that both Obama and Biden have proposed legislation to undermine that right in the past.

This link illustrates what I mean.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

No I didn't say most Red State

AKSteveB (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:39PM EST (link)

people or you were Buchananites. I don’t even think Palin is actually one, but at the moment, that is the persona she is going with on the campagin trail, and I think at least part of the reason she has excited that part of the base, while turning off moderates.

I see a something kind of sad here actually. She is well ..the unObama. While he has spent all of his adult life aiming for the job, she has not spent a minute of her life doing that before this campaign. It is another place where something in the middle works the best. A candidate who is nothing but politically ambitious is likely to be a narcissist, but someone who never considered it, just isn’t going to be prepared. She actually HAS governed as a moderate, so much of what you see out there just isn’t real.

I hope we get a chance to come back together for Jindal in 2012. He is conservative, but also prepared.

Hell is other people – Sartre

Jaded, I just try not to get

AKSteveB (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:49PM EST (link)

real emotional about things. I also try to be as precise as I can with my verbiage, though Lord knows I still mess up. Yes Obama has tacked center both in the primaries and the election. Any Democrat has to. This country will elect a conservative, it will elect a centrist, it may even elect a mainstream liberal, but it will NOT elect a “Progressive.” Does that have ANYTHING to do with how he’ll govern, of course not.

In terms of what I know, well …there is a reason that I’m on a blog rather than working on a campaign. I’m more of an “ideas guy” than someone who really knows what is going on at the grassroots. I figure I can throw in some free campaign analysis (worth what you pay for it), and get a handle on what is happening at the grassroots here. This year being in Alaska is just bizzare, with the whole Palin thing, and our congresscritters in deep ethical doodoo. It is hard to be partisan up here this year even if one wanted to.

Hell is other people – Sartre

I'm not quite sure how you do a

AKSteveB (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 8:56PM EST (link)

ditto on redstate, but ..ditto !

Hell is other people – Sartre

most young people are one issue voters - College fund handouts

JLenardDetroit (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:02PM EST (link)

The manner in which Democrats through money at the “college tuition” concern/issue is exactly what has University tuition going up at ever increasing rates (easy/free money), why would they pass on it. The easier it is for College students to get Loans/Grants/whatever the Universities and Colleges quickly inflate rates to suck up the cash strapping the students with HUGE debts. They aren’t getting more people educated, but about the same numbers, at a higher cost.

That’s what LIBERALISM does with their moronic Economic policies.

Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
“Liberals, looking to do for? America what they’ve done for? Detroit! which is DESTROY IT!”
“I think, therefore I am Conservative”
“Conservative by choice, Republican by necessity”
“You can lead a Liberal to the Truth/Facts, but you cannot make them THINK!”
“Romney [No, not my first choice] does NOT have a MORMON problem. He has a, far too many Americans; these days; are MORONS problem!”


(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (message) (Warning: Children Will Die!!)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” – a Rush caller (other Quotes)

sparky

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 9:04PM EST (link)

First of all, my name is Nick, not sparky. Second, unless you get your polls from a different country Obama is averaging about a 7.5-8 point lead overall. Many of those polls break down into internals and among independents Obama has the lead. But yes I definitely exaggerated his independent lead. Some have him up by 5, others, like Fox by 11. Obama also gets slightly more republicans then McCain gets dems. A really good site about polls is fivethirtyeight.com, where they weigh the polls by methodology and past accuracy in order to project election day. Obama currently has a 96.7% chance of winning the election on that site.

Then why are they for Obama?

Menlo (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:04PM EST (link)

Funny they want to elect someone whose first priority as President will be to sign FOCA. Obama and the Democrats want to take action on all the social issues certainly more than Republicans.

Anyway, I don’t see Republicans “focused” on “social issues.” Can’t a candidate bring something up and state a position when asked without being “focused” on it? The liberal media’s aim is to take things out of context and give the appearance that either Republicans are extreme and/or that the “social issues” you describe are Republicans’ first priority and will consume their time.

I’m not sure how you classify “social issues” outside those you listed since most everything the government deals with (“social” security, health care, the economy, crime, immigration, education) is a “social issue.” I often wonder who created this “category” of conservatism and coined such a dumb term in the first place.

Every poll I’ve seen in recent years and months has shown that younger voters divide pretty much the same as older ones on abortion. They also prioritize it at least as high if not higher in elections, especially the pro-life ones. You’re right though that they aren’t as interested in same-sex marriage; and I don’t think ANYONE has campaigned on “school prayer.” I want an example of that one!

Of course younger people who care about politics have always been more liberal and will vote accordingly! What else is new? The only difference this year is that Obama is getting more of them (and others) politically involved through his hypnotic campaign that I doubt future Democrats will be able to duplicate.

People who classify as socially liberal and fiscally conservative are certainly a dwindling minority and currently comprise four percent of the electorate. Appealing to them is going to lose FAR more voters than it gains. Ideology is not very relevant to the 30-40 percent of voters who swing elections.

Any moderating Republicans could do to jibe with the under 30 voters right now would make them Democrats and eliminate the need for two parties. And people will vote for the real thing (with the label) given a choice.

“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter

You just proved my point.

AKSteveB (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:05PM EST (link)

I totally agree with you on Bobby Jindal and Eric Cantor, and I suspect David Brooks would as well.

I understand that Palin excited the groups you just mentioned, but there was also a cost to it. I’m sure you know the drill ..each side pretty much starts out 40-40 with its base and fellow travelers, and the fight is for the last 20 pct. Do you sell out your core principles to win an election, of course not. Not every issue is a core one. The other thing is, packaging. Reagan won, ultimately because he convinced even non hard right wingers that he was nothing scary. He governed as a pragmatic conservative. That path continues to be the best for success imnsho.

Hell is other people – Sartre

It's not the social cons fault.

newagegop (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:11PM EST (link)

Were our “republican” leaders smart at all we could have been fighting to keep the social arguments at the state level. Continually supporting social conservatism, but deeming it inappropriate at the federal level. Like Reagan did.

I can win over the vast majority of moderates, and conservatives with the “let Texas be Texas, and New York be New York” argument. Never mind that it’s the freakin’ intent of the founders. It’s just a great common sense argument.

The magic bullet for moderates on social issues is federalism and for foreign affairs a simple return to a “traditional” foreign policy. Add lower taxes and fiscal disipline..presto you’ve got a winner.

This has never been complicated for conservatives. Conservatives know how to win, and after Obama guts the military and expands the welfare state, conservatives will win again. Have faith in our principles. Obama’s ideas are built to fail and will.

HEY umm dipstick I don't think your IQ is high enough

PaRep (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:13PM EST (link)

To grasp this But the Fox/OD polls BLOWS hard, & 2nd of all it’s RV & Conservatives overwhelmingly are hanging up on Pollsters

And Thirdly if You give the R’s a 7 to 10 point advantage in the weighting of the Polls McCain would be up by even more, Do you realize that it has NEVER been higher than 3 or 4 point advantage to D’s & now all of a sudden it’s going to double & some cases triple

I agree

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 9:13PM EST (link)

Lets say that the democratic Congress passed a law banning guns and Obama signed it into law. The point I was making is that gun ban law would be found instantly unconstitutional by the SCOTUS, because of the DC Gun Law case. The case also makes it hard to abridge the right with anything more than reasonable gun control laws. So if a gun control law were signed by a President Obama (and any state or local govt. for that matter) that was too severe the Court would reject that as unconstitutional also.

Obama knows this and if any bill, which is unlikely, like the two i just stated came to his desk he would probably veto it, because it would fail constitutional muster. Congress, also, will probably never attempt to make such a law after that case.

No matter what Obama, Biden or any other future president’s record on guns is, you have a constituional right to bear arms that cannot be taken away unless an Amendment is passed or the SCOTUS overturns this well thought out decision. Nether will probably happen. It essentially takes the gun debate off the table. Maybe not this year, since the case was just decided, but in the future it won’t be much of an issue at all.

uhh

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 9:23PM EST (link)

Right now nationally its Ds in the upper 30′s, R’s in the 30-33 range and I’s making up the rest. So when the pollsters take a poll they try to stay to that rubric. To discount all the polls because you believe all the cons are hanging up and the polls of R,D and I identifiers are all wrong, I think, is a bridge too far. This isn’t 1948 where there is 1 pollster out there. There are about 20 pollsters and they use a huge amount of resources into getting things right. They look at 04 numbers, 06 numbers, census shifts, demographics of the area. You can get a poll to say anything really. You can call up 1000 Nader voters, but these polls are much more accurate then they are completely wrong.

Polling is an art, not a science, so you do get polls that fluctuate. You need to look at all the polls together in order to decrease the margin of error, by increasing the sample sizes. By all accounts Obama is up by 6-8 points. One poll that Drudge latched onto has him up by 1, but looking at the internals 44% were evangelicals, when in 04 there were only 24% evangelical voters. So, here the methodology is out of whack. Some polls have Obama up 14, like the Pew Poll, but that is also probably an outlier.

Fivethirtyeight.com gives a very good explanation on pollsters, their methods and the math behind the projections.

Rage may not be necessary

ssshannon1026 (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:24PM EST (link)

Calm patience might be a much better tactic at this juncture. If Obama does turn out to be a good leader dispite the fact that he has never actually done any real leading, we might have long term problems in reasserting a conservative agenda. If he is not, there should be little expectation that he can control a party that threw out its last monderate years ago and which will be unable to stop themselves from going too far too fast. If Obama can even find the breaks on his own mass movement, trying to apply them might turn out to be the most dangerous thing he could do. In another four years, we conservatives might have little more to do than kick away the litter from the wreckage of Obamania.

Oh yes Nate Silver the Democrat GoofBall

PaRep (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:26PM EST (link)

Good One Troll, Your IQ is at about room temperature

I can attest to this...

DrOldSchool (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:29PM EST (link)

From the Kos Kids in my classes. The top issue with them is ending the war immediately. But the college credit would be #2 on their list.

I attempted to pose the logic you presented to them about a subsequent cost hike, as well as increased class sizes and the devaluing of a bachelor’s degree that would accompany an increase in enrollment, particularly since those numbers would come from students who have no business being in college anyway. Heck, a decent number of the students I have now (at a directional university) fall into that category. But they are here because someone told them they had to be in order to get ahead. And, hey, their tuition does allow me to get free massage treatments (it really is in our health plan).

It was amazing how all of the students immediately shed their collectivist thinking to say this plan “will save me/my parents money”, and thus it was good. When I asked them why thinking about your personal benefits was good for this economic topic, but not for other things (namely taxes) their end of the conversation immediately devolved into the typical misinformed opinions based on Obama/DNC talking points, and not on fact/rationality.

Now, to be fair, this conversation is an introductory level class, so I don’t expect much from them. But, at least some introduction to the flaws of economic/social liberalism is better than nothing I guess. In this case, I hope they understand that they already pay a lot for an education and it’s not in their interest to water it down any more.

“Is it a third party we need, or is it a new and revitalized second party, raising a banner of no pale pastels, but bold colors which make it unmistakably clear where we stand on all of the issues troubling the people?”

- Ronald Reagan, 1975 Speech to CPAC

If you really want to learn BUT I HIGHLY DOUBT YOU

PaRep (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:30PM EST (link)

WILL Try this guy He REALLY actually Knows what he is talking & Posting about who unlike SIlver who has his head so far up Obama’s rear end that when Obama eats Silver Burps
http://stolenthunder.blogspot.com/

you learn nothing

Lord_Vegas (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:30PM EST (link)

you contribute nothing.

__________
When I was your age….heck, I was NEVER your age

===========================
The Minority Report Network
===========================

PaRep, for someone who goes on about polls so

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:31PM EST (link)

You should show Silver more respect. He did better in predicting the Democratic primaries than anyone else. He also has an amazing record with predictive statistics in Major League Baseball. The guy is very good at what he does. Why make fun of him? The data is what matters, not the source.

Uh no your name here is sparky or tool if you like or don't like...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:33PM EST (link)

it really doesn’t matter to me and just like your leader you “exaggerated” the I’s breaking for him….we don’t do that here WE deal in facts and the fact is AP had a them in the MOE the IBD/TIPP had them at 3.7 and both had large undecideds…..if the media wing of the Democrat Party and the annointed one cannot close the deal by now they will break for what they KNOW and what is comfortable for them and that SPARKY is McCain!

UHH Han for a supposed Mod somewhere else & a D

PaRep (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:35PM EST (link)

You sure as Heck spend a lot of time here don’t you

1st of all BS IN, BS OUT

Doesn’t matter How good he is or Not, UMM by the way who did he said would win the N.H. Primary based on polling SPARKY ???

HMMMMM

not a bot, just bored

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 9:35PM EST (link)

Actually, I’m Roman Catholic and an (gasp) O-bot? I support the guy, but I guarantee you there was no hypnosis involved. As for the Messiah comment, I didn’t know Jesus was born in Hawaii. Puts those Mormons to shame, huh?

Hans is neither troll nor goofball

JSobieski (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:37PM EST (link)

I say that a conservative Reagan Republican.

I don’t agree with Hans on many things, but he does argue in good faith, and is capable of reason.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

Numbers aren't bias

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 9:38PM EST (link)

The guy got the primaries correct. He is a democrat, but numbers don’t lie. Plus, faking the numbers would do him no good. If the site was discredited he would lose a ton of advertising money and a lot of credibility, since he also does baseball fantasy statistics.

He was wrong on two or three states

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:41PM EST (link)

Out of 50 (or was it 57, heh).

Why do you have to make it so damned personal towards the guy? He’s open about his bias and he shows his work in great detail. Look at his stuff or don’t, but he’s very transparent and educational. There’s no need to beat up on the guy like that.

I understand showing such disdain and disregard for political operatives who are working against your interests. Nate Silver is a businessman who’s plying his trade pretty well. Again, do you actually know anything about his work in Major League Baseball? Before you write another word about the guy, if you don’t know what I’m talking about, spend a few minutes googling it. Please.

Wrong

MikeO Sunday, October 26th at 9:42PM EST (link)

He is a manipulative, psychopath troll. The passive-aggressive style is subtle, but it is there nonetheless.

Spend some time reading these, and judge for yourself.

obviously you lack depth

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 9:45PM EST (link)

Like I’ve said there are plenty of polls that have Obama up by a large amount and by a little amount. You need to look at them in the aggregate. You can’t latch on to a poll where Obama has a 1 point lead anymore than I can latch onto one where he has a 14 point lead. I know we would both love that to be the reality of the situation, but it isn’t.

O, and calling me names is quite childish. Behind your computer screen your allowed to be the big bully, but arguing like a 5th grader only makes you look as intelligent as one.

"Passive aggressive psychopathic troll"?!?!

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:49PM EST (link)

I stand behind every post I’ve written here. I am here under honest pretenses. I don’t think you understand how insane that accusation is.

Please, if you’re going to call me a psychopath could you first define a psychopath and then show how my posting behavior demonstrates that I am one.

I am a liberal who is willing to listen to you folks and learn. I am not rooting for your side and I’ve been very open about that. That does not mean I am mendacious or vicious. It means we disagree. We are countrymen and that matters more to me than our disagreement. If that is too freaking complicated for you to understand, if that comes across as psychosis, you need to walk away from the computer.

I don’t know that I’ve ever been so insulted by anyone on the internet, and that’s saying something.

iffy

Human Torch (I'm on fire) Sunday, October 26th at 9:51PM EST (link)

you used “if” 3 times and “might” 4 times. Sounds like even the author thinks this is a bit of a long shot. :o )

the world will only give us what we have the audacity to ask of it

Here is my depth tool...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:52PM EST (link)

I stand with those who stand with the United States Military and Obama does not…he accused our fine men and women of air-raiding villages and killing civilians and HE will be the Commander in Chief of them…..I will talk to any anti-American who stands with Barack Obama anyway I want you don’t like that than hang with your own kind….WE have an election to win!

This I do know when I was a fifth grader we had God in the classroom and we did not have the degradation of society as we do today!

How many times do I have to tell you?

MikeO Sunday, October 26th at 9:52PM EST (link)

The kiddie table is in the other room.

Go there. Stay there.

We don't all feel that way, Han

Bill S (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 9:53PM EST (link)

I personally am glad to know that not 100% of the Left are talking-point-spewing O-Bots. You are an ok person, from what I can tell.

“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins

Assumption problem

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 9:56PM EST (link)

The guy makes some good points, but he is also making some assumptions. He is assuming that all the polling done on party affiliation is wrong. I doubt that. The polling has been quite consistent, giving the D’s a 7-10 point advantage. The second thing he leaves out in his experience argument and how it is affected by the debates. The debates have all been polled by different orgs and each found an Obama win. Obama’s internal numbers on the issues and his ability to lead have also increased. His numbers have also been steady since the second debate.

Think of Reagan. He was 5 points down before the debate because a good deal of people saw him as too conservative and too inexperienced to be President. The debate, however, changed the electorate’s opinions. He passed that “Commander -In-Chief Test.” The same thing has happened with Obama.

He goes on to state that, “If I am wrong and Obama is really crushing McCain, there are certain indicators which will show this. First, the early voting should be much, much heavier among democrats than republicans..”

Well according to early voting polls in some battleground states, he is wrong:

**     Poll    % Voted                              Non-Early

State Date Early Early Voters Likely Voters

NM 10/13 10% Obama +23% Obama +6%
OH 10/13 12% Obama +18% Obama +4%
GA 10/12 18% Obama +6% McCain +11%
IA 10/9 14% Obama +34% Obama +10%
NC 10/6 5% Obama +34% McCain +5%**

-So I read your article. Happy?

You didn't go to the link, did you?

1SGinTN (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 10:05PM EST (link)

Now pardon me while I run a couple of swabs down the barrel of this SKS.

Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil

O boy

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 10:06PM EST (link)

Isn’t it nice that you can repeat what Hannity tells you without looking into the matter yourself. Heres that dang old context again:

On Hannity & Colmes, Sean Hannity praised Gov. Sarah Palin for citing Sen. Barack Obama’s remark that more coalition forces are needed in Afghanistan “so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous pressure over there.” Hannity did not note that Defense Secretary Robert Gates recently offered Afghans “sincere condolences and personal regrets for the recent loss of innocent life as a result of coalition airstrikes” and that news outlets have repeatedly reported that U.S. airstrikes in Afghanistan have resulted in civilian casualties.

I guess Sec. Gates is one of those anti-American terrorists too.

I’m actually pro-American and I believe you are too btw. Its not anti-American to have a different political philosophy and the McCarthyism that you and people like Rep. Bachmann are echoing is a divisive tactic this country doesn’t need.

…and I didn’t know that God left the classroom. Did he get up and go home? Call in sick? Not only is what you said nonsensical, but it also misses the whole point about you making childish comments in an argument. The point was that it makes you less credible.

states rights, agreed

Human Torch (I'm on fire) Sunday, October 26th at 10:11PM EST (link)

but social issues became cental to the party platform and promoted on the hill. The
Terry Schivo moment really turned people off. That was aturning point, Foley followed and the Craig. The high ground was ceded mainly with those 3 events. A more pragmatic approach would have been to argue loudly for the states and then pushed behind the scenes. The constitution ammendment against gay marriage was premature. Frist rightfully stepped aside, he blew itb

the world will only give us what we have the audacity to ask of it

The racists in the Obama camp along with his hardcore leftist...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 10:13PM EST (link)

associations and friends is the party that is dividing this country and you will NOT be changing any minds here and your damn right I listen to Hannity the way you listen to Olberman and Matthews….and you debate like the koskid you obviously are and by the way I will feel no pity for you when Obama goes home….you all think you have this in the bag well just remember Kerry was going to win BUT those “stupid” Americans knew BETTER than each and every one of the pundits and the little koskids.

I by the way have more credibility on this site than you will ever have. I do question the very love of country of anyone who can see this ignorant man as President. You see that is my RIGHT on this site for Republican/Conservative causes I will have my RIGHT protected before yours!

haha

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 10:18PM EST (link)

I did, but again Obama could have an F- record on guns it is completely moot after the DC Gun Law case. Now that they won’t really be able to slap Democrats with anti-gun stuff the NRA is gonna have to find another hobby. lol.

how is this Lib

Gary (Diary) Sunday, October 26th at 10:23PM EST (link)

allowed to stay here and spew Obama talking points?

What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? ~Bible~

You know why there’s a Second Amendment? In case the government fails to follow the first one. -Rush Limbaugh~

Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive. ~Unknown~

...

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 10:31PM EST (link)

I doubt that Obama’s associations are dividing this country. Rep. Bachmann calling for investigations into Congress about who is pro and who is anti-American is what divides us. Mistaking democrats and Obama for anti-American, because they believe in a different political philosophy divides us. Negative politics of fear divides us and it is not what Obama is peddling.

I don’t expect to change your mind, but demonizing the opposition, because you buy into everything Hannity or Rush say, is never a good thing. I do watch Olbermann, but I know when he’s taking things too far (him and O’Reilly should make out and get it over with).

Kerry and Bush were close the whole time and Bush pulled away over the weekend that the Bin Laden tape was put out there. If it wasn’t for that Kerry might have pulled off Ohio and would have been President. This election is much different. The fundamentals are in Obama’s favor and the polling is not nearly as close as 4 years ago. In the bag? I don’t try to think that way. It won’t be in the bag until its called November 4th.

It is totally your right to question my opinions, but do it in a better way. You do yourself a disservice when you only attack and never present substance.

...

Nick Sunday, October 26th at 10:33PM EST (link)

I doubt that Obama’s associations are dividing this country. Rep. Bachmann calling for investigations into Congress about who is pro and who is anti-American is what divides us. Mistaking democrats and Obama for anti-American, because they believe in a different political philosophy divides us. Negative politics of fear divides us and it is not what Obama is peddling.

I don’t expect to change your mind, but demonizing the opposition, because you buy into everything Hannity or Rush say, is never a good thing. I do watch Olbermann, but I know when he’s taking things too far (him and O’Reilly should make out and get it over with).

Kerry and Bush were close the whole time and Bush pulled away over the weekend that the Bin Laden tape was put out there. If it wasn’t for that Kerry might have pulled off Ohio and would have been President. This election is much different. The fundamentals are in Obama’s favor and the polling is not nearly as close as 4 years ago. In the bag? I don’t try to think that way. It won’t be in the bag until its called November 4th.

It is totally your right to question my opinions, but do it in a better way. You do yourself a disservice when you only attack and never present substance.

Sounds like an anti-Bush rant

Menlo (Diary) Monday, October 27th at 12:54AM EST (link)

No one “hijacked” anything! Republicans have been the party of social conservatism for decades. Nothing changed “8 years ago.” If anything, focus on those issues within the party has weakened.

Of course the media pays disproportionate attention to it, trying to make it SEEM like the only thing Republicans care about. That’s nothing new. The dinosaur media has been doing it for so long, they don’t even realize they are doing it anymore!

Trust me, that is NOT a significant reason that Republicans are unpopular right now. If it was, we’d have gone out of existence in the 80′s or at least steadily lost popularity.

“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter

Newagegop

AKSteveB (Diary) Monday, October 27th at 1:09AM EST (link)

Thank you, I was starting to feel kinda lonely here.

“The 10th Amendment, it’s not just a good idea, it’s the law”

Hell is other people – Sartre

Not sure about that

Menlo (Diary) Monday, October 27th at 1:26AM EST (link)

I doubt the Terri Shiavo case made much of a dent in terms of actual votes. The growing dissatisfaction with Iraq (about the same time as Katrina) was more likely the turning point.

It should be no surprise that Foley was among the “moderate” Republicans. Craig is too for that matter. I doubt too many people care right now though.

Actually, federalism is never very popular in polling. Most people tend to want any issues they deem important addressed at the federal level. Also, many don’t distinguish since they see all government the same.

“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

For those arguing with Nick...

Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, October 27th at 1:28AM EST (link)

…please be advised that he deliberately altered his account to try to cover his tracks; which should tell you everything that you need to know about his motivations and/or true opinion of this site.

He is welcome to email the Directors for reinstatement… but he and I both know precisely why he won’t dare do it.

liberalism is an emotion, not a reason

JSobieski (Diary) Monday, October 27th at 5:56AM EST (link)

nobody ever wants to face what the left truly is–its too dark to think about

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

The fate of other conservatives

finaljeopardy Monday, October 27th at 6:59AM EST (link)

rests on Sarah Palin’s shoulders. Jindal and Ryan have bright futures, but they will face many of the same attacks Sarah Palin has: religious bigotry, attacks against a pro-life stance and the typical criticism of their intellect.

Sarah Palin has never overstepped the bounds of church and state, yet the left has done everything to drum up these fears. She has never attacked people for who they are or their lifestyles. Sometimes, it’s laughable seeing the left try to catch her in a gotcha moment, like when she was asked recently if the GOP welcomed Muslims into its tent. She said we practice freedom of religion in this country and don’t discriminate; that is the correct answer.

Bobby Jindal will be attacked as a crazy backwater hick who participated in an exorcism, believes the earth is 6,000 years old and thinks women should be jailed for having abortions. We should never compromise our principles, but we should stand firm in defense of our own. That was Reagan’s best advice to the GOP, and it took both Bushes to undo his work.

Sarah Palin has an undeniably bright future, and the David Brooks naysayers can take a hike. The movement will attract more intellectuals when it has proven its authenticity, and she helps there. If McCain wins, and Sarah Palin goes onto be our first woman President, it helps the Jindals, Ryans and Cantors of the party. I think it’s Sarah Palin who can help Republicans the most.

You don't get it

finaljeopardy Monday, October 27th at 7:08AM EST (link)

but logic was never the left’s forte. You choose your running mate to shore up your weakness. The Republicans need their whole base to win, including the right. This is a center-right country, but these voters are the heart and soul of the classic GOP. It is imperative that a candidate has their support when running a national campaign.

The right was never sold on McCain. Sarah Palin was a brilliant choice, because she energizes the base and frees McCain to go after moderates and swing voters. She was not supposed to draw Democrats over, though she has. She was meant to solidify support from the right, and she has done that well.

McCain has to attract moderates on his own, but that has nothing to do with Palin. The media went after her, because they serve as Obama’s attack dog. You’ve got your own prejudices, but I guarantee there is more support for Palin in the heartland than you have any idea of.

not funny

finaljeopardy Monday, October 27th at 7:24AM EST (link)

I don’t own a gun, but I grew up in rural America in a family that traces its roots back to the Revolution. Gun rights are not a laughing matter, and just because Obama voted one way recently on the DC handgun bill, doesn’t mean he is a friend to gun owners, not with his previous record or his comments about “clinging to guns” or “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress.’’ That last comment was made in September of this year.

It looks like he will have the votes in Congress. He may possibly get a filibuster proof Senate majority. He, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid will appoint SCOTUS justices who make Ruth Bader Ginsberg look like a Bircher, and they will find some convenient way to raid guns or ban them altogether. All signs point to soft fascism from those three.

I am only sorry that his banning came too late

janis (Diary) Monday, October 27th at 7:32AM EST (link)

for most of us hoot and jeer as he was led out in shackles. He’s a creep.

Infanticide

finaljeopardy Monday, October 27th at 8:01AM EST (link)

On the infanticide charge that is thrown around the fact is that Obama didn’t support that law because he saw that it could be used to circumvent a woman’s right to choose AND because there was a law on the books already that made doctors care for abortion failures. Thus, just because he voted against it, doesn’t mean he supported infanticide, when not caring for the baby was illegal in the first place. Nice try though, but you can’t pick apart votes without the context in which they sit.

If the infant is BORN ALIVE, choice hardly enters into the picture. I’ve heard Obama give dozens of excuses why he voted the way he did, but at the end of the day, he SIDED WITH HIS CHURCH (after all, what kind of Christ Hospital would murder babies who survived abortions? The kind with TUCC former pastors and active members on its board of directors, as well as in the hospital’s health lobbying group Advocate.) Obama refused to stop infanticide in order to shield the multi-billion-dollar abortion lobby.

To get further into your argument that RvW was in any way threatened, NRLC discovered in working through the IL bill’s path that their version of the BAIPA bill did have the neutrality codicil attached — and it got attached in Obama’s committee:

*Documents obtained by NRLC now demonstrate conclusively that Obama’s entire defense is based on a brazen factual misrepresentation.

The documents prove that in March 2003, state Senator Obama, then the chairman of the Illinois state Senate Health and Human Services Committee, presided over a committee meeting in which the “neutrality clause” (copied verbatim from the federal bill) was added to the state BAIPA, with Obama voting in support of adding the revision. Yet, immediately afterwards, Obama led the committee Democrats in voting against the amended bill, and it was killed, 6-4. *

In the record of the vote taking on March 12, 2003, the amendment was adopted unanimously by Chairman Obama’s HHS subcommittee. That added the neutrality clause to the bill — which then went down to defeat on a party-line 6-4 vote, with Obama voting against protecting infants born alive during abortions.

As for the lie about a law already being on the books, it only applied to “viable” infants (meaning children who could survive outside of the womb), and it left it up to the abortionist to decide whether the child was viable! Thus, there was no standard of accountability for the abortionist. The state took his word for it. He was left to kill any child born alive after abortion that he desired.

Obama heard moving testimony from nurse Jill Stanek that the test for viability was whether the premature baby could survive in a soiled linen closet for up to eight hours at times. Investigation proved that this was happening at least 20% of the time, and not just in Christ Hospital. That’s why the new law was so easily passed once it made its way past Obama (as soon as he left the Senate.) An identical law passed unanimously at the federal level. That’s your candidate, a heartless baby killer, a supporter of the most extreme abortion measures and even eugenics. He is pure evil.

NOTE: Much of my argument came directly from Ed Morrissey on HotAir, who has thoroughly researched this. He has several articles on it, and you can either accept Obama at his word, though he has admitted to lying about the National Right To Life group. Or you can read all of Ed’s excellent articles on the subject.

sorry

finaljeopardy Monday, October 27th at 8:04AM EST (link)

The first paragraph was meant to be in block quotes, since I was responding to Nick/ Doodad/ GUMXPLT125 or whatever he is.

like heck you are Roman Catholic

finaljeopardy Monday, October 27th at 10:51AM EST (link)

The Pope has in no uncertain terms told the cafeteria Catholics where they can go. All this talk of “just war, UHC, the environment being as important as abortion” are talking points from Soros-funded activist groups that undermine the Church. You are not a Roman Catholic, if you support a candidate like Obama, who favors abortion and even infanticide and who is friends with murderers (Ayers) and thieves.

Pilgrim; it's all about immigration

Aurelian Tuesday, November 11th at 5:45PM EST (link)

If not for the 1965 Immigration Act, and our resulting policy of unending mass immigration, what you say would be right. But our current immigration policy seems as if it is designed to create a Democratic majority.

Outreach is all fine and well, but so long as immigration levels remain high, the GOP has virtually no chance of winning, or even coming close to breaking even with Hispanic and Asian communities.