Conservative Immigration Reform is Right Next to Unicorns and Leprechauns


Far too often, government has looked to excessively regulate immigration into this country.

However, to date there has been no true “conservative” immigration plan. The “Leave Us Alone” principle many conservatives adopt towards government, and its role in governing, seem to be forgotten when discussing “conservative” immigration policy. Conservatives argue it is not the role of government to be involved in “X”. Whether is be it the regulation of home-schooling, the right to bear arms, business interference, etc, the conservative mantra has tended to be that the government should simply leave people alone to live their lives.

However, this principle appears to apply only if those people who are facing potential regulation are not native born Anglos.

In an effort to keep this short, those who claim to be “conservative” are either for regulation and government intervention, or against it. If our leaders continue to claim they are “conservative” but argue for government intervention in the hiring of persons (legal or not), the permits for working, the classification of jobs, etc – then they are not conservative.

While the United States was founded and built by those not born on this soil, some in Congress continue to place excessive blockades on those seeking legal employment in America. At the same time, laws and restrictions are placed on businesses which force compliance with arbitrary caps and quotas just to hire willing and able workers.

Just as we have no “conservative” healthcare platform, we have no real “conservative” immigration platform, either.

Conservatives should stick to their basis of conservatism and develop a truly conservative platform, and quickly. The Left and Obama have successfully courted much of the Hispanic vote (many Hispanics are likely to align with the Republican Party until something happens to turn them away – i.e. Tancredo).

The “border security” plan supported by Senators such as John McCain are an issue of national security and should not be confused with, or discussed in the context of, the regulation of a migratory workforce.

The “E-Verify” plan, favored by those such as Sen. Jeff Sessions, which will place the burden on businesses and force all workers to be run through a computer system, has failed miserably in Arizona. This has even resulted in 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanics, born in the U.S., to be red-flagged by the system and prohibited to work in the state as a result. The system is not only flawed in its practical implementation – it is flawed in the fundamental justification that any conservative should endorse such blatant government interference in the employer/employee relationship by forcing compliance with E-Verify.

A conservative immigration platform should consist of the following principles:

Workers should have a right to pursue employment free of government restraints, without invasions of privacy or violation of their civil rights; and that employers have a right to pursue workers without government coercion or presumption of guilt.

In the United States, workers and employers should be free to establish mutually beneficial employment arrangements, i.e., the government should not interfere with employers’ hiring nor should it regulate workers’ employment decisions.

With regard to border security, it is a legitimate function and indeed a central role of the federal government to secure our national borders. However, that issue lies solely within the realm of national security and should not be established to hinder a migratory worker flow.

Businesses should not be required to enforce laws that are rightly the responsibility of the federal government.  Employers are ill-equipped to do so and such requirements place an undue burden on a free economy. Businesses should also have a mechanism available to them to be secure from the threat of lawsuits on the one hand, and severe government sanctions on the other.

The American economy requires growth in our domestic workforce at levels that are beyond our current rate of natural population growth. The best way available today to meet the challenge of a workforce too small for our economic needs is to allow increased levels of legal immigration.  Failure to do so leads to both illegal immigration and loss of effective control over U.S. borders. The organic level of workers needed for the U.S. labor force should be determined by free and unfettered labor markets.

The current workforce residing in the U.S. should be free to continue to work in the U.S. to the extent that the labor market demands their services.  Any reform should provide a means for allowing illegally working residents to eventually enter the process to become documented immigrants.

Are these the perfect tenants of conservative immigration policy? No. But they are much more in tune with the actual principles of conservatism than our current policy.


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Everify is a joke as a stand alone

Common_Cents (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 3:22PM EST (link)

It is like hiring and paying a cop to card patrons at the entrance of your bar and then later on that night, that cop issues you a ticket for selling drinks to underage kids.

Does anyone know the meaning of “illegal” anymore? as in illegal immigration?

Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from, behind, the Back Nine.
Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.

Individual rights is the key.

objectivist1 Tuesday, June 2nd at 9:36AM EST (link)

Immigration and Individual Rights
by Craig Biddle (March 21, 2008)

Every year, millions of people seek to immigrate to the United States, and with good reason: Opportunities to improve their lives abound here. Immigrants and would-be immigrants want to pursue the American dream. Whether or not they would put it in these terms, they want to be free to think and act on their best judgment; they want to produce wealth and keep and use it as they see fit; they want to make better lives for themselves and their families. In other words, foreigners want to come to America for the same reason the Founding Fathers established this republic: They want lives of liberty and happiness.

Immigration is the act of moving to a country with the intention of remaining there. Morally speaking, if a person rationally judges that immigrating to America would be good for his life, he should immigrate; a rational morality holds that one should always act on one’s best judgment. But does a foreigner have a right to move to America? And should America welcome him? Yes, he does—and yes, she should. Recognition of these facts was part and parcel of this country’s founding.

The bosom of America is open to receive not only the Opulent and respectable Stranger, but the oppressed and persecuted of all Nations And Religions; whom we shall wellcome to a participation of all our rights and privileges, if by decency and propriety of conduct they appear to merit the enjoyment. 1

Unfortunately this pro-immigration attitude, expressed by George Washington in 1783, has all but vanished from American politics. Indeed, the policies of America—the republic built by and for immigrants—have become hostile to immigrants.

Although some foreigners today are fortunate enough to receive special permission to immigrate to the U.S.—via quotas (as if freedom were good only for a limited number of people) and lotteries (as if Liberty were a scratch-card game)—millions more aspiring immigrants are forbidden entry. Today, productive, life-loving immigrants such as Isaac Asimov, Irving Berlin, Andrew Carnegie, Enrico Fermi, Andrew Grove, Itzhak Perlman, Wolfgang Puck, David Sarnoff, Nikola Tesla, Arturo Toscanini, Eddie Van Halen, and Ayn Rand would likely be turned away from the land of the free. Today, the vast majority of would-be immigrants—including physicists from Israel, software engineers from India, restaurateurs from Mexico, musicians from Canada, architects from Brazil, biochemists from Japan, and countless other perfectly good people—are simply shut out of the melting pot. Immigration to the land of liberty is now largely prohibited by American law.

This prohibition, however, is un-American and immoral. The basic principle of America—the principle of individual rights—demands a policy of open immigration.

Open immigration does not mean that anyone may enter the country at any location or in any manner he chooses; it is not unchecked or unmonitored immigration. Nor does it mean that anyone who immigrates to America should be eligible for U.S. citizenship—the proper requirements of which are a separate matter. Open immigration means that anyone is free to enter and reside in America—providing that he enters at a designated checkpoint and passes an objective screening process, the purpose of which is to keep out criminals, enemies of America, and people with certain kinds of contagious diseases.2 Such a policy is not only politically right; it is morally right.

Here is why:

Man lives by means of reason—that is, by acting on his rational judgment. To live, he must observe facts, identify causal relationships, use logic, form principles about what is good and bad for his life, and act on his best judgment. For instance, he must observe that food, shelter, medical care, and the like are necessary for his survival; he must acknowledge that such goods cannot be wished or prayed into existence but must be produced by means of rational thought and effort; he must conclude that producing values is good for his life and that failing to produce them is bad for his life; and he must act on that principle. A person who fails to recognize such facts and take such actions will either soon die or, as is more often the case, exist parasitically on those who do think and produce.3

Because reason is man’s basic means of living—and because reason is a faculty of the individual—a human life, a life proper to man, is a life lived by the judgment of one’s own mind. The basic principle on which America was founded and on which slavery was abolished is an acknowledgment of this fact: Each individual has a moral right to act in accordance with his own judgment, so long as he does not violate the same right of others. This is the meaning of the right to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. The right to life is the right to act as one’s life requires—which means, on the judgment of one’s mind. The right to liberty is the right to be free from coercive interference—so that one can act on the judgment of one’s mind. The right to property is the right to keep, use, and dispose of the product of one’s effort—which one does by acting on one’s judgment. And the right to the pursuit of happiness is the right to seek the values of one’s choice—which one does by acting on one’s judgment.

Each of these rights—and every other legitimate right—is a species of the right to act on one’s judgment; thus, if we want to protect our rights, we must recognize and reject the one thing that can stop us from acting on our judgment: physical force.

If someone puts a gun to your head and commands “Give me your wallet” or “Take off your clothes” or “Don’t criticize the government” or “Don’t cross that border,” you cannot act on your judgment; you cannot keep your wallet or remain clothed or criticize the government or cross the border. The threat of death makes your judgment—your basic means of survival—irrelevant; you now have to act on the gunman’s judgment. Absent such force, you can act as you see fit; you can keep your wallet, remain clothed, criticize the government, cross the border.

The principle here is: Physical force used against a person prevents him from acting on his judgment—and only physical force has this effect. In other words, individual rights can be violated only by means of physical force.4

This fact gives rise to the basic principle of a civilized society: No one—including the government—may initiate the use of physical force against a human being.5 To the extent that this principle is recognized by a society’s citizens and upheld by its government, that society is conducive to human life; to the extent that this principle is rejected or violated by a society, that society is inimical to human life.

In a civilized society, whether or not a person is legally free to take a particular action depends on whether he has a right to take the action. If the action will violate the rights of others, then he does not have a right to take it; if the action will not violate the rights of others, then he does have a right to take it. There is no middle ground here: Either a person has a right to take a given action, or he does not. And if he does, he morally must be left free to do so.

Suppose, for example, a man in Los Angeles wants to work at a local car wash, and suppose the owner of that car wash wants to hire him. Should the two men be free to do business? Yes. And the reason why they should be free to do business is that each man has a moral right to act on his own judgment, so long as he does not violate the same right of others. In other words, the reason is the principle of individual rights.

The right to act on one’s judgment includes the right to contract with others by mutual consent to mutual advantage. No one’s rights are violated by an employer hiring an employee. The employer might fire another employee to make room for the new, more-desirable employee—but (unless doing so breaches a contract) firing an employee does not violate his rights; it does not prevent him from acting on his judgment. The fired employee remains free to improve his skills or lower his rate or seek another job or start his own business.

There is no such thing as a right to a job—which is why no one ever has or ever will present the facts that give rise to such a “right.” If a person had a “right” to a job, what would that imply? It would imply that someone must be forced to provide him with a job. A “right” that violates a right is a contradiction in terms.

Consider another example. Suppose a man in Virginia wants to move to North Carolina, and suppose a landlord in North Carolina wants to lease the man an apartment. Should the Virginian be free to move? Yes. Should the landlord be free to lease him the apartment? Yes. And why should they be free to take these actions? They should be free to move and to lease because, as human beings, they have the right to act on their own judgment and because neither of these actions violates anyone’s rights. Again, the reason is the principle of individual rights.

Now, let us consider some slightly altered examples.

Suppose a man in Mexico wants to work at a car wash in LA, and suppose the owner of that car wash wants to hire him. Should these men be free to do business? The question here is not whether it is legal for them to do business, but whether it should be legal. What moral principle governs this situation? The principle of individual rights does. Each individual has the right to act on his own judgment, so long as he does not violate the same right of others. Accordingly, these men should be free to do business.

Similarly, suppose a man in India wants to move to North Carolina, and suppose a landlord in North Carolina wants to lease him an apartment. Should the Indian be free to move? Should the landlord be free to lease him an apartment? Again, the governing principle is that of individual rights.

We could multiply examples, but the point should be clear: Foreigners have a right to move to America, and Americans have a right to hire, contract, and associate with them by mutual consent. A government that prohibits or limits immigration thereby initiates force against would-be immigrants—and against those Americans who want to associate with them—and thus violates the rights of both parties. The principle of individual rights forbids this prohibition and mandates open immigration.

Individuals possess rights not by virtue of their geographic location or national origin or genetic lineage, but by nature of the fact that in order to live they must be free to act on their basic means of living: their judgment. This principle, in conjunction with the fact that rights can be violated only by means of physical force, gives rise to the need for a government—an institution with a monopoly on the use of physical force in a given geographic area—the proper purpose of which is to protect individual rights. A government serves this function by banning the use of physical force from social relations—and by using retaliatory force as necessary against those who initiate (or threaten to initiate) force. But a government has a moral right to use force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use; it has no moral right to initiate force against anyone—citizen or non-citizen, within or without its border—for any reason.6

America’s border is not properly a barrier for the purpose of keeping foreigners out; it is properly a boundary designating the area in which the U.S. government must protect rights. Rights-respecting foreigners who want to cross that boundary in order to enjoy the relative freedom and abundant opportunity in America have a moral right to do so. Likewise, American citizens who want to associate with foreigners in rights-respecting ways—whether through friendship, romance, recreation, or commerce—have a moral right to do so. And Americans who do not want to associate with foreigners have a moral right not to associate with them. But no one—including the government—has a moral right to prevent anyone from acting on his judgment.

To prohibit a person from immigrating to the U.S. is to violate his right to act on his judgment; it is to retard his ability to live a life proper to man; it is to commit a moral crime.

Arguments against open immigration abound, but all of them are invalid. None of them names a principle (i.e., a general truth) by reference to which limiting immigration is a requirement of human life—and each of them calls for actions that violate individual rights. Let us consider several and see, in pattern, how they fail to make their case.

1. “This is our country, and we have a right to refuse entry to foreigners.”
No one owns America. American individuals and corporations own specific tracts of land, homes, businesses, automobiles, and the like; and the owners of this property can rightfully prohibit others from entering or using it. But America as such—America the country—is not owned by anyone.

There are two kinds of property in America: private property and so-called “public” property. Whereas private property is owned by individuals and corporations, “public” property, which is allegedly “owned by everyone in general,” is actually owned by no one in particular. This is why no one in particular can dictate how it will or will not be used. Consider that if citizen Jones insists on permitting immigrants to enter “his” portion of “public” property, but citizen Smith insists on prohibiting immigrants to enter “his” portion, the conflict cannot be justly resolved. Someone’s “right” to “his” portion of the property “owned by everyone in general” is going to be violated. This and the countless similar conflicts arising from the notion of “public” property point to the invalidity of such property—property which, by its very nature, violates individual rights and generates an endless stream of irresolvable rights disputes.

There are no facts of reality that give rise to the need for “public” property, thus there is no principle governing the use of such property; there is only this person or group’s desires against that person or group’s desires—and, of course, the old saw that “might makes right.” Since there is no principle governing the use of “public” property, there can be no principled argument for excluding immigrants from using such property. But there is a principle governing the actions that all individuals should be free to take by nature of the requirements of human life—namely, the principle of individual rights—and that principle implies that immigrants should be free to use “public” property.7

Americans who wish to permit immigrants to visit or use or purchase their private property have a moral right to permit them. And Americans who want to prohibit immigrants from visiting, using, or purchasing their private property have a moral right to prohibit them. But no one has a moral right to stop others from acting on their judgment. So says the basic principle of civilized society—the fundamental principle of America—the principle of individual rights.

The “This is our country” argument for prohibiting or limiting immigration to America is invalid and un-American.

2. “We Americans have a right to our culture, which immigrants erode.”
There are three possible interpretations of this claim: (a) “We have a right to preserve the racial makeup of our culture”; (b) “We have a right to preserve the language of our culture”; and (c) “We have a right to preserve our lifestyle choices.” Let us consider them in that order.

If by “We have a right to our culture” opponents of immigration are speaking of a right to preserve the racial makeup of their culture, then what they seek is not to protect American culture but to “achieve” something on the order of Nazi culture. Nothing more need be said about that.

As to preserving the use of English in America: In one sense, Americans have both a moral right and a political need to do so; in another sense, however, they have no such right or need. An official national language is necessary for the purpose of clarity and consistency in government documents and legal proceedings. In America, that language obviously should be English, the language on which the country was built. But there is no such thing as a right to force someone to speak English, or to bar him from speaking Spanish or French or any other language. That said, just as American immigrants throughout history have learned to speak English out of practical necessity, so most American immigrants today eventually learn to speak English out of practical necessity: The ability to speak English makes one more competitive in the free market. The major shelters from this necessity are: (1) the welfare state, which substantially obviates the need for immigrants to compete, and (2) the status of “illegal alien,” which gives rise to black markets in which English is unnecessary. Americans concerned about immigrants learning English should oppose welfare programs and advocate a policy of open immigration, under which the now thriving black markets would wither away.

Finally, if by “We have a right to our culture” opponents of immigration are speaking of a right to their lifestyle preferences—their music, their cuisine, their mode of dress, and so forth—then they should be arguing not against immigration but for open immigration: The right to one’s lifestyle preferences means the right to one’s pursuit of happiness (i.e., the right to seek the values of one’s choice), which one exercises by acting on one’s own judgment while respecting the right of others—including immigrants—to do the same.

The only culture to which anyone can have a right is a culture of respect for and protection of individual rights. Fortunately for those who love and want to preserve American culture, the principle of individual rights is the basic principle of that culture; respect for that principle is an essential characteristic of a true American; and foreigners who immigrate to America, for the most part, embody that characteristic.

The “We have a right to our culture” argument against immigration is at worst unspeakably evil and at best an argument for open immigration.

3. “We Americans have a right to our jobs, which immigrants take, and to our wage rates, which immigrants lower.”
As mentioned earlier, there is no such thing as a right to a job; such a “right” on the part of one person would necessitate the use of force against others. Nor, for the same reason, is there any such thing as a “right” to a wage rate, which would violate the rights of employers and employees to set mutually beneficial terms of doing business with each other.

If a man is fired from a job—or if his wages are reduced—because a willing immigrant is able to do the job better or cheaper, no force has thereby been used against the fired man; he remains free to act on his own judgment. He can and should either improve his skills or offer his services for less or seek another job or start his own business or think of something better to do. But he has no right to have the government prevent the employer and the immigrant from doing business with each other.

The desire of certain U.S. workers and labor-union members for the government to grant them an entitlement to a job created by someone else—or to a wage paid by someone else—is not an argument against immigration, but a consequence of a false and grossly un-American premise: the notion that “might makes right.” In reality, and in accordance with the basic principle of America, whether a person is best qualified for a given job is determined not by a gun but by the free market. No one, and no group, has a right to forcibly exclude from the marketplace those with whom he or they cannot compete—and no true American would claim such a right or advocate such force.

The “We Americans have a right to our jobs and wage rates” argument against immigration is invalid and un-American.

4. “Immigrants come to America to live on the public dole via our welfare programs, and we simply can’t afford to support them.”
Most immigrants do not come to America to live on the public dole; most come to enjoy America’s (relative) freedom, to work hard, and to be self-sufficient. The fact that some immigrants come to America to leech off our welfare state is an argument not against immigration but against the welfare state—which, by coercively redistributing the wealth of productive Americans, attracts foreign parasites (and encourages domestic ones).

Punishing an individual for someone else’s wrongdoing is patently immoral—and the wrongdoing here is not just that of the relatively few immigrants who seek welfare handouts. The greater wrongdoing is that of the American intellectuals, citizens, and politicians who established and who maintain the welfare state. For America to bar would-be immigrants from entry to America because of immoral “welfare” policies instituted by Americans is the height of injustice.

What should we do about the problem of welfare with regard to immigrants? We should mercifully bar immigrants from any involvement in this legalized violation of rights. This would be good both for immigrants and for Americans.

In order to live the good life, immigrants, like all human beings, need to develop and maintain the virtue of independence; they need to face the demands of reality and live by their own thought and effort. Precluding them from receiving the so-called “benefits” of welfare will help them to develop or maintain that virtue.

More importantly, barring immigrants from receiving welfare will be a step in the direction of recognizing and protecting the property rights of American citizens. (The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, which barred immigrants from receiving most welfare “benefits” for their first five years in America, was a step in the right direction.)

Immigrants should also be ineligible to use government schools, which are worse than welfare programs. Whereas welfare programs merely provide people with stolen goods for “free,” government schools retard the minds of children while forcibly charging their parents and neighbors for the “service.”

By not receiving stolen goods, immigrants would retain the natural incentive to earn their success by working. And by not using government schools, immigrants would have the opportunity to provide their children with quality education—whether by sending them to private school or by homeschooling them. (There are many immigrants here in southern California who already do one or the other.) Of course, insofar as immigrants are excluded from receiving welfare and using government schools, they should also be exempted from paying taxes toward these illegitimate programs.

That is the solution to the problem of welfare with regard to immigrants. (A similar solution applies to the related problem of doctors and hospitals being forced to provide immigrants with “free” medical goods and services. The solution is that such force morally must be stopped.)

The “Immigrants seek welfare, so we can’t afford them” argument against immigration is not an argument against immigration; it is an argument against the welfare state and all its life-thwarting manifestations. Punishing would-be immigrants for the moral failings of a few immigrants—and for the moral failings of Americans and their intellectual and political leaders—is immoral.

5. “Statistics show that immigrants commit a lot of crime. The more immigrants we allow into the country, the more crime we will suffer.”
Yes, there are statistics showing that some immigrants commit crime. There are also statistics showing that some native-born Americans commit crime. Statistics showing that some people commit crime, however, say nothing about what any particular person will do; and group statistics as such are wholly irrelevant to the question of whether an individual should be free to act on his judgment.

People, including immigrants and would-be immigrants, have free will; they choose to think or not to think, to act on reason or to act on feelings, to respect individual rights or to violate them. A person’s choice to respect or violate individual rights is not dictated by his national origin or his race or his language, but by his philosophy, which can be either rational or irrational, depending on whether or not he chooses to think.8

If an immigrant chooses to be irrational and commits a crime, then, like anyone who commits a crime, he should suffer the consequences of his wrongdoing. But the presumption of innocence reigns here: An individual is logically and morally to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Individuals who leave socialist, communist, or theocratic hellholes to seek a better life in America are not criminals to be punished but heroes to be admired (would that more Americans were so inspiring). To arbitrarily judge them as corrupt or to condemn them to the third-world hell into which they were accidentally born on the “grounds” that some immigrants commit crime is logically absurd and morally obscene.

The “Statistics show that immigrants commit a lot of crime” argument is an evasion of the self-evident fact of free will, and it betrays a thoroughly collectivist mentality on the part of those who advance it.

6. “Open immigration might be practical under laissez-faire capitalism, but it is not practical under a welfare state. We cannot institute open immigration until we’ve achieved laissez-faire capitalism.”
This claim—which amounts to: “We can’t begin implementing the principles of laissez-faire capitalism until we live under laissez-faire capitalism” or “We can’t begin upholding the principle of individual rights until the principle of individual rights is fully upheld”—reverses cause and effect.

The only way to achieve a fully rights-respecting society is to begin moving incrementally in that direction, by consistently taking action in every area in which such progress is possible. We must make a concerted effort toward (among other things) eradicating so-called entitlement programs, liquidating government schools (i.e., establishing a free market in education), repealing antitrust laws, eliminating eminent domain, implementing a self-interested foreign policy, and establishing a policy of open immigration. None of these aspects of a free society can ever be fully accomplished apart from a principled effort to accomplish the whole, but each and every one of them can be accomplished step-by-step over time—if we grasp and appeal to the principle by reference to which each is a morally necessary measure: the principle of individual rights.

The “We must wait for laissez-faire” argument against open immigration is invalid and betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of positive political change.

7. “Open immigration makes it easy for terrorists to enter the U.S.; American security requires immigration restrictions.”
What makes it easy for terrorists to enter America is (a) the 12,000-mile perimeter of the contiguous forty-eight states (not to mention Alaska and Hawaii) combined with (b) the fact that the U.S. government has not eliminated the states that sponsor terrorism.

The solution to the problem of terrorists harming or threatening Americans is not to violate the rights of would-be immigrants, but to annihilate the states that sponsor terrorism. Islamic terrorism against the “Great Satan” is not a lone-wolf activity; it is fueled and made possible by the material and spiritual support of Islamist regimes—regimes such as those in Iran and Saudi Arabia. To end terrorism against America, we must end such regimes.

Banning Mexicans, Canadians, Indians, and Sudanese from seeking the American dream has exactly nothing to do with ending terrorism or protecting America. Neither closed borders nor limits on immigration can stop terrorists from entering this country. All that is accomplished by banning or limiting immigration is the violation of individual rights.

Those concerned about terrorists harming Americans should advocate (a) the summary elimination of all regimes that have financed or called for or otherwise incited harm to Americans, and (b) a policy of open immigration to the “Great Satan.” With the state sponsors of terrorism destroyed, and with an American policy of open immigration in place, anyone attempting to enter the U.S. at a non-designated location could legitimately be considered a threat to the rights of Americans and dealt with accordingly.

The “American security requires immigration restrictions” argument against open immigration is invalid and suicidal. To violate the rights of would-be immigrants while ignoring the wrongs of American-murdering regimes is unjust and insane.

The foregoing examples demonstrate that one cannot argue from a rights-respecting, American perspective against a policy of open immigration—because the basic principle of America, the principle of individual rights, mandates open immigration.

Bearing that in mind, what should we do about the estimated 12 million “illegal” immigrants currently residing in the U.S.?

In light of the immoral and illegitimate law they “broke” by moving to (or remaining in) America—and in light of the suffering they have endured by being labeled “illegal” (e.g., having to live in the shadows, not being able to market their goods or services openly, not being able to use banks or credit cards, etc.)—the solution to the problem of so-called “illegals” is to grant them unconditional amnesty and a presidential apology. Just as the principle of individual rights mandates open immigration, so too it mandates amnesty for those whose moral actions were made “criminal” by immoral laws. (“Amnesty” is really the wrong word, as one logically should not have to be “pardoned” for having acted morally, but there is no accurate word for what has been necessitated by our irrational immigration policy.)

Some argue that granting amnesty to “illegal” immigrants would make a mockery of the rule of law and that “illegals” broke our laws and should be held accountable for having done so. On the contrary, what mocks the rule of law is the existence and attempted enforcement of anti-immigration laws.

Upholding the rule of law does not mean upholding whatever laws happen to be on the books. Should the citizens of Nazi Germany have turned Jews over to the Gestapo? Nazi law dictated that they must. Would the refusal to obey that law have been a mockery of the rule of law? Should the citizens of theocratic Iran behead apostates? That is what Shariah law calls for. Would refusal to do so mock the rule of law? Should Americans living in the North in the 1850s have returned runaway slaves to their Southern “owners” in compliance with the Fugitive Slave Act? Did violators of this act mock the rule of law?

Upholding the rule of law does not mean enforcing illegitimate laws; it means establishing and maintaining a government and legal system based on the objective social requirements of human life—namely: the recognition and protection of individual rights. Laws that violate individual rights are illegitimate laws, and such laws morally must be repealed. Consciously “violating” such laws in order to sustain and further one’s life (or the lives of others) is not a violation of the rule of law; it is a recognition of the fact that valid moral principles trump invalid political policies.

(This is not to say that it is proper to disobey any and every illegitimate law. There are contexts in which it is morally right to obey laws that are morally wrong—because violating them would harm one’s life. For instance, it is morally right to pay one’s taxes, because refusing to pay them will land one in jail. But such value judgments can be properly made only by reference to the principle that what is right depends on the requirements of one’s life, all available and relevant facts considered.)

Although the political status of 12 million immigrants now residing in America is “illegal,” the moral status of most of them is: American. They risked life and limb to get here; they do everything they can to stay here; and they endure all the trouble that comes with being labeled “illegal”—all in pursuit of a better life for themselves and their families in the freest country on earth. What could be more American than that?

As to the specific steps required to achieve a rights-respecting and thus moral immigration policy for the U.S., here is a broad five-point plan, all aspects of which should be advocated simultaneously and by reference to the moral principle that mandates them: the principle of individual rights.

Repeal all laws restricting immigration; do away with all quotas, visas, green-cards, and the like; make open immigration the law of the land.
Establish an objective screening process at designated points of entry along the U.S. border; turn away (or detain) only criminals, enemies of America, and people with certain kinds of contagious diseases.9
Grant unconditional amnesty to all so-called “illegal” immigrants, and apologize to them for the trouble our immoral laws have caused them.
Exclude immigrants from receiving welfare and from using government schools—and exempt them from paying taxes toward these immoral programs.
Declare war on Iran; eliminate its current regime; and announce to the world that, from now on, this is how America will deal with regimes that threaten our citizens, our immigrants, or our allies. Turn next to the Saudi regime. Repeat as necessary.
Accomplishing these measures will require substantial time, effort, and intellectual activism, but there is no shortcut; these are the actions necessary to solve the misnamed “immigration problem,” which is, in fact, a problem of too few Americans recognizing, embracing, and upholding the basic principle on which America was founded.

Those who argue that the “immigration problem” is too “pressing” and requires more “expedient” measures—or too “complex” and requires measures more “agreeable” to opponents of individual rights—either misunderstand the nature of the problem or choose to evade it. The problem, however, is what it is, and if Americans want to solve it, we must recognize its actual nature and proceed accordingly.

Help defend the rights of foreigners to immigrate to America and the rights of Americans to associate with them. Fight this battle by understanding and appealing to the principle of individual rights. It is the proper governing principle in politics, and it mandates open immigration.

 
 

What about entitlements?

dougkellogg (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 3:44PM EST (link)

I agree with the central philosophy.

But what about the huge expense illegal immigrants create when they cross,and latch on to the entitlement system?

Ship them all to the sanctuary city of SF immediately. nt

Common_Cents (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 3:46PM EST (link)

Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from, behind, the Back Nine.
Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.

costs on society...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 3:50PM EST (link)

Evey person has costs on society. New babies have costs on society. Actually, studies show that 1st generations take a bit more than they put in, 2nd generation about net, and by the 3rd generation, legal or not, they actually contribute back to society.

Brian M Johnson

you contradicted yourself with a two sentence post

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:30PM EST (link)

1st sentence: “every person has costs on society”

2nd sentence “3rd generation, legal or not, they actually contribute to society”.

Molon Labe!

 

Why have laws?

steelstand Saturday, May 30th at 3:42PM EST (link)

I would just like to see the laws that we have enforced, no more , no less.

 
 
 

Entitlements completely change the debate

Return to Revolution (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:22PM EST (link)

Suppose there were no entitlements or a welfare state – which there wouldn’t be if our country had stuck to its founding principles. Then no immigrant would come here to leech. Immigrants would come here looking to be productive and would not pose a threat to jobs, for in a free, productive society, there would be no limit to how much wealth can be created.

With the welfare state, everything suddenly becomes a zero-sum game. Taxation and other governmental controls limit the economy and thus the available jobs. And worse, you now have people here who take advantage of entitlements without paying into the system.

As such, I like the proposed platform, despite President Nanny State and his massive expansion of the welfare state.

Out of hand Constitutional fetishist

 
 

Preserving the Culture

Jonathan Gardner Friday, May 29th at 3:57PM EST (link)

If it were only about employment, I would invite the world to do business in my backyard because it will help me.

But it’s not. It’s about our culture. We are the free-est society on earth because of our political belief system.

If every immigrant shared those beliefs, I would prefer they moved here to do business with us. But they don’t.

Allowing them to come here any faster than a trickle means they will dilute our culture until we are like everyone else on planet earth. We will lose our freedom as our culture shifts away from our political beliefs to the other political belief systems they are running away from.

We need to screen immigrants based on their compatibility with our society. Unfortunately, that means Anglo Whites get preferential treatment, and third world countries don’t. This is because Anglo Whites share our belief system, and most third-world dwellers don’t, not because of their race (but partly due to their heritage.)

If we had some way of allowing people to come here and forcing them to adopt our belief system, or kicking them out if they don’t, then I would be for it. No such way exists. We cannot force people to change their beliefs, nor can we punish them for bad beliefs. We can only choose the best immigrants and leave the rest alone.

American culture...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:05PM EST (link)

Right. Because I know that I for one want to preserve lazy, fat, ignorant modern American life with little work ethic (hence the massive amount of jobs that immigrants are still able to get).

And I guess the millions, perhaps billions of people that travel, live and study in France every year make it…what? Less French…

And you really want to “force people to adopt our beliefs or KICK THEM OUT”. Are you kidding me? Do you even know what freedom is about my comrade?

Brian M Johnson

One word for you, Brian, re: immigrants and culture

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:08PM EST (link)

England.

 

wow, you both are kind of out there on this

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:40PM EST (link)

I don’t agree with Gardner’s “Anglo-Whites” comment but we do have a right to preserve our culture. Your comment about France makes little sense, yes people “visit” France, but if you are from say America, don’t try to stay and work. France has become less French with a huge Muslim population, much of which came illegally and much of which has no interest in French culture.

BTW, we DO have a right to ask people that come to the USA if they want to become Americans or just live off other people’s work. Those foreigners that came here found a wilderness and built this nation. They did not have welfare; if they did, I doubt this place would be much better off than say Bolivia.

Molon Labe!

"Anglo Whites"

Jonathan Gardner Friday, May 29th at 7:15PM EST (link)

The point was that people who live in the UK for many generations probably have the closest political belief system to ours. That’s not surprising—our political heritage is their political heritage.

The people with the least in common are people living in third-world countries who keep electing tyrants and socialist dictators thinking it will make the world a better place.

Unfortunately, like the crime rate, that means one group is disproportionately of one skin color than another group. This gives the appearance of racism—the practice of judging someone by the color of their skin.

But we aren’t using race as a factor in our determination, so it really isn’t racist.

 
 

Excuse me tool but are you saying that the American culture...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:32PM EST (link)

is “Because I know that I for one want to preserve lazy, fat, ignorant modern American life with little work ethic (hence the massive amount of jobs that immigrants are still able to get). ”

LAZY? are you REALLY SAYING THAT ON THE FRONTPAGE of Redstate? who are you and what alternate reality are you living in? are you a LaRaza member? are you an illegal? because the American’s I know are the hardest working people in any country….WE work 50-80 hour weeks to make a better life for our families, WE pay massive amounts of taxes to take care of people who should NOT EVEN BE IN THIS COUNTRY…..WE wait hours in emergency rooms when our children have injured themselves so that ILLEGALS can get their FREE healthcare whilst WE pay a few hundred dollars a paycheck for the the same service. I really don’t know who you are or how your TRIPE got to the front page but know that for this Redstater you are the biggest mistake to ever hit this site!

"lazy" because we are productive

Jonathan Gardner Friday, May 29th at 7:17PM EST (link)

We are “lazy” because we are vastly more productive than any other country in the world. In a few hours, we do more work than some people can do in a lifetime.

What makes us productive? Capitalism, and the investment system, whereby people can obtain critical capital to maximize their productivity.

Where does capitalism ultimately come from? The belief that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with the unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

People who think this is a bad thing are not welcome to my country.

 
 

If there were such a way, but there isn't.

Jonathan Gardner Friday, May 29th at 7:11PM EST (link)

“And you really want to “force people to adopt our beliefs or KICK THEM OUT”. Are you kidding me? Do you even know what freedom is about my comrade?”

Read my comment again. You simply cannot change anyone’s beliefs nor can you punish them for them. That’s what I said.

The goal is, again, to maximize the number of freedom-loving patriots in our country who have a firm belief in natural, civil rights, and minimize the number of freedom-hating anti-patriots who have a firm belief that there are no natural, civil rights.

 
 

What belief system are you talking about?

dougkellogg (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:14PM EST (link)

The idea behind America is that regardless of background your desire for freedom leads you here to join in the American dream.

It’s contrary to that to have a large Federal government picking who can come in on the basis of race or creed.

If we didn’t have a ginormous entitlement system this would all go a lot more smoothly.

immigration should be based on merit

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:42PM EST (link)

and the needs of our country. We should also mention are crappy NEA run schools, they are a major part of the problem. We would not need so many skilled immigrants if our schools were worth a damn.

Molon Labe!

 

It's the Federal Governments' Job

Jonathan Gardner Friday, May 29th at 7:07PM EST (link)

It’s the federal government job to set immigration policy. We wrote that in our constitution 200 years ago.

I agree wholeheartedly that we need to get rid of the welfare and entitlement programs, at least at the federal level. This would do a lot to encourage freedom-loving immigrants and not the moochers.

I never said we should use race or creed as a filter for incoming immigrants. I said we need to use beliefs. If you believe in our founding documents, then welcome aboard and bring all your friends and family who believe likewise. If you don’t, get the heck out, or maybe stay for a few weeks but be sure to take your trash with you when you leave.

 
 
 

I am not sure I believe this is on the front page

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:06PM EST (link)

Let’s just take one of the assertions:

“The American economy requires growth in our domestic workforce at levels that are beyond our current rate of natural population growth. The best way available today to meet the challenge of a workforce too small for our economic needs is to allow increased levels of legal immigration.”

Are you serious? How low does unemployment need to go before this makes sense?
6% ?
5% ?

Are you actually saying that given the current (and likely future) unemployment rate in this country, that this can be argued with a straight face?

OK – one more:
“Businesses should not be required to enforce laws that are rightly the responsibility of the federal government.”

Businesses regularly comply with laws, wouldn’t you say? I don’t think anyone is asking that businesses arrest, detain and depart illegal immigrants. Your argument seems to be that making sure that your employees are here legally is too much to ask, but complying with a million pages of tax code is A-OK?

Businesses in America do not have a God-given right to cheap labor. Sorry.

Actually, I am thankful this is on the front page. It is a great excuse to take some time off from RedState.

Geez.

Are you on the union payroll or just hateful?

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:07PM EST (link)

Brian M Johnson

How about addressing the point, tough guy?

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:09PM EST (link)

Or do you think you just did?

point....

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:20PM EST (link)

People who are currently unemployed are usually unwilling to take a lesser job. There is never a shortage of janitors, landscape workers, etc. Jobs that most Americans might not want. They get scooped up by those willing to come to this country to work. Without these jobs and these necessary laborers, our economy would suffer worse.

Elections have consequences. This one, unfortunately, has landed us deeper into the recession. A totally different and unrelated argument. Unless you are trying to argue that increased immigration is what made the economy hit the toilet.

E-Verify forces businesses to use it. And I agree that the tax code is way too complicated and burdensome. So is the current immigration process in general. So are the arbitrary cap limits on H2-B workers, so are all the b.s. “prevailing wage” categories and skewed government inflated wage figures, so are a million other things. While they may not be asked to “arrest” them – it doesn’t matter if they don’t have a business left. Fruit picking is classified as a non-skilled labor specialty. But ask any orchard owner, etc. and they will tell you that the legal “non-skilled” fruit pickers they get are typically so bad and damage and waste so much product, it is not viable to keep them on the payroll. The classification system is a problem on the government end and employers should not be forced to comply with a system that does not yield a positive cost-benefit ratio that justifies them staying in business. If that means a questionable worker or more likely, group of pickers that travel together, might have to be employed to keep the company profitable or even economically viable – then that is most likely what will happen. It is an issue of government classification with an arbitrary scale at that point.

Cheap labor? So I guess that do have a “right” to be forced to comply with Davis-Bacon Act, government set union wages which skew the cost of projects on average $9 billion higher which places that burden on the taxpayer??

Brian M Johnson

Fine

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:35PM EST (link)

Can the current system be streamlined and be more effective? Sure. Do we have a right to protect our borders? Yes. Will verifiying that workers are here legally have a cost in terms of increased labor expenses? Yes.

As far as my opinions of unions go, it is painfully obvious that every single American business that is in trouble, bankrupt or completely gone is heavily unionized. The argument you put forth doesn’t have a thing to do with unions, and you are conflating that issue to garner support for your proposition.

So how do we handle your free flow of workers? If a guy is a jihadi but a really good programmer, do we let him in? No? Did you say no? How about if a bunch of drunk fruit pickers are at the border? Wait until they sober up, or let them come in and work until they kill a family on a Friday night? What if all those we let in adopt our American culture of “lazy, fat, ignorant modern American life with little work ethic”? Who picks up the tab? The businesses that brought them in?

Unfortunately, anything other than open borders requires picking and choosing. So if you are arguing for open borders, argue for open borders. If not, at least acknowledge that some discrimination – and I mean the kind that requires one to choose the best option – is necessary.

I will keep my promise and scoot. I feel sure you will be busy enough without me.

 

correction

David Hinz (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 7:45PM EST (link)

you wrote:

People who are currently unemployed are usually unwilling to take a lesser job

correction: People who are currently receiving unemployment compensation are usually unwilling to take lesser jobs.

People, however, who have run out of benefits quite often go out and find jobs. If you want more of something, subsidize it — if you want less of it, tax it!

But ask any orchard owner, etc. and they will tell you that the legal “non-skilled” fruit pickers they get are typically so bad and damage and waste so much product, it is not viable to keep them on the payroll.

Actually the growers that I have talked with, who get their pickers legally through the worker programs find their work to be excellent. Did you mean to say that American “non-skilled” fruit pickers were lousy? On are you simply in favor of illegals? Oh, and those pickers were guaranteed $9.50/ hr — plus medical coverage and housing…

 
 
 

If this wasn't a front page post.

Hooah_Mac (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:18PM EST (link)

I would think that kind of comment was from a troll.

Brian, what is this all about? Jack made some good points, backed up with facts, and you went all ad hominem?

-Priorities-
1. Mission 2. Soldiers 3. Everything Else

 

Are you on the payroll of La Raza? NT

The Grognard (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:27PM EST (link)
 
 

This is RS front page?

Hooah_Mac (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:14PM EST (link)

“Whether is be it the regulation of home-schooling, the right to bear arms, business interference, etc, the conservative mantra has tended to be that the government should simply leave people alone to live their lives.

However, this principle appears to apply only if those people who are facing potential regulation are native born Anglos.”

Seriously?

-Priorities-
1. Mission 2. Soldiers 3. Everything Else

Don't forget this little gem

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:19PM EST (link)

“If our leaders continue to claim they are “conservative” but argue for government intervention in the hiring of persons (legal or not), the permits for working, the classification of jobs, etc – then they are not conservative (or are, and are just racist).”

Let’s roll that spoiled milk around in our mouths for a while before we spit it out.

Nice. Racist. I hadn’t heard that one before.

 

correction...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:28PM EST (link)

That meant to say “not” native born.

Conservatives generally believe the government should be smaller and less expansive and should leave people alone to live their lives, etc.

However, some conservatives feel that we should apply the same regulation they are generally opposed to, to immigrants and the immigration process.

Seems rather hypocritical to me.

Brian M Johnson

You lost your credibility

Hooah_Mac (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:36PM EST (link)

When you played the racism card.

Immigration is a totally different subject from the other areas of government you are comparing to. American conservatism does not object to a powerful government, just one that stays within its lane. Border security is in that lane. I agree that businesses should not be responsible for enforcing legal immigration status, but they must be held accountable when they are violating it, willingly or through the lack of due diligence. There is a balance somewhere.

Based on the start of your post, I doubt you are truly interested in freedom or conservatism. As long as you’ve been around here, you should know better than to use the language of the hateful(and wrong) left.

-Priorities-
1. Mission 2. Soldiers 3. Everything Else

agreed...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:40PM EST (link)

That was not meant to be the focus.

Brian M Johnson

 
 

actually in your diary you did not say we are racist only on immigration

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:47PM EST (link)

I quote you here:

“Whether is be it the regulation of home-schooling, the right to bear arms, business interference, etc, the conservative mantra has tended to be that the government should simply leave people alone to live their lives.

However, this principle appears to apply only if those people who are facing potential regulation are not native born Anglos.”

so you are just generally saying we only believe in freedom for Anglos, not just on immigration, but on liberty. I think you need to update this diary sir.

Molon Labe!

 
 
 

you are right about one thing, your plan is not perfect

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:24PM EST (link)

actually it is kinda poor.

1) We are either a nation with borders or we are no longer a nation

2) We do have a right to decide who can come here to work, something every nation in the world happens to do.

3) It is untrue we do not have enough native born workers. Have you seen the unemployment levels? I agree we don’t have enough native born doctors, engineers, and physicists, we should allow them to come here from around the world on a competitive basis and with work visas.

4) one nation should not have immigration priority over any other. I say any nation that sends a high percentage of illegals should be put in the back of the line.

Molon Labe!

I think we actually agree...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:30PM EST (link)

1) no one said open the borders – border security, as I said, is a national security issue
2) “we have the right to decide” – why, b/c we stole it first?
3) unemployment is low, yet there are tons of industries looking for work – fast food, service industry, janitorial services. Fact it, most Americans do not want those types of jobs.
4) agreed

Brian M Johnson

Brian...are you just slipping today??

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:45PM EST (link)

“2) “we have the right to decide” – why, b/c we stole it first?”

Dude…what was that?? Seriously…that is like re conquistador language right there.

And I am really asking because of the potential for your words to be used by some moby troll in the future.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

what is your problem Brian?

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:53PM EST (link)

“2) “we have the right to decide” – why, b/c we stole it first?”

this is just sick lefty talk. We made a wilderness the greatest force for good in human history. I will not allow you to talk like this about our nation and its Founders without a serious response.

I think we can have a civil discussion, I think we probably do agree on some issues, but you seem to want to piss everyone off. BTW, try to get a job in France or the UK with just an undergrad degree, they would kick you out on your behind. You think we are tough on immigration, you should check out everyone else.

Molon Labe!

GC agress with Doc and Aa - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:01PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 

If we are ever resolving this issue border security has to be separate from guest worker issues

dougkellogg (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:38PM EST (link)

1. The article states that border security is a separate issue. In fact it hurts border security to have such a disjointed guest worker system that is unresponsive to the market.

2. We have a right to keep unhealthy, dangerous, folks from crossing the border at a given time. But why isn’t it better to allow individual businesses to hire the right people for them?

 
 

Anarchy

Craig Steiner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:34PM EST (link)

This sounds more like an anarchist’s immigration platform, not a conservative platform. Conservatives are for minimal laws and regulation… not non-existent laws and regulation.

 

You're Setting up a strawman, here

Right Reason (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:35PM EST (link)

Conservatives don’t argue that it is not the role of government to be involved in “X”. You cite three good examples, but it does not follow that you can insert any pet cause into “X”.

There are legitimate functions that government performs. One of these, I am sure you will agree, is the security of the nation’s borders. Like it or not, this entails controlling who gets in and how they get in. You seem to make a good show of agreeing with this, but your “conservative immigration platform” would proscribe any efforts to perform this function.

The first clause, I would assume, refers to E-verify and similar programs. What other practical way is there to ensure businesses do not hire illegal aliens?

In the second clause, are you saying that government should not interfe with employer’s hiring, even if they are hiring workers who are here illegally?

The third clause, just how is it to be determined at the border whether someone trying to enter is a migratory worker or otherwise legitimately entitled to enter when you have removed any investigation methods?

Fourth Clause. I do not consider compliance with a law prohibiting the employment of illegal aliens to be enforcement. I consider it akin to laws prohibiting the harboring of a fugitive.

Fifth clause. Finally, we agree – sort of. I do think that legal immigration levels need to be examined. I do not, however, automatically agree that our workforce is too small. If that were the case, we would see much greater wage inflation than we have in the past years. In any event, since government is the gatekeeper, any immigration level would have to be statutory. It cannot be some elastic number subject to the ebbs and flows of business needs and still be controlled.

On side question:
Your platform continually mentions “workers”. Are you referring only to legal workers?

Lastly, your reference to “native born Anglos” to me is snide, reverse racist remark that does not help your argument.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

- Winston Churchill

response...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:49PM EST (link)

Yes – I agree in border security.

Why are businesses hiring illegal aliens is the question I would ask. Mainly b/c the work classifications are completely arbitration. Why is the government grouping immigrants into “work” categories. Are they classified to say “orchard work” is really non-skilled labor? B/c from what I have been told, it requires a great deal of skill.

I haven’t removed investigation methods nor called for their removal.

Someone who wants to come to American to create a better life is not a person I consider a “fugitive”. But to each his own.

A worker is someone who can perform the required task – legal or not.

Brian M Johnson

So by your last comment

Right Reason (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 11:00PM EST (link)

you do not distinguish between legal and illegal immigration.

I do not need to know anymore.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

- Winston Churchill

 
 
 

Conservative policy

hoosierteacher (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:43PM EST (link)

“However, this principle appears to apply only if those people who are facing potential regulation are native born Anglos.”

Uhm, no. Regulation should be restricted to the narrow confines set forth in the constitution. Regualting the borders and immigration is a lawful function of government. Limited govenrment allows for us to regulate who comes into the country, like it or not.

Trying to justify illegal immigrants (calling them “migratory workers” and instituting a policy of allowing them to stay if they evaded initial arrest) just encourages the behavior, and ignores the conservative principle of law and order for the sake of convenience. For shame.

I like the current model of having businesses check for basic ID. I would rather have that than have big government come into work places and run the show. Letting businesses police themselves is more of a conservative approach than adding another layer of government buearocracy. However, if a business is negligent in excersing a minimal standard of good faith in checking an I-9 form for ID, then they deserve some sanction.

“Legal” immigration, though, should be encouraged and supported. So waht’s wrong with the following?

1. It is one of the functions of a limited, constitutional government to regulate the borders as a matter of national security. Therefor, illegal immigration shall not be tolerated.

Those found to be here illegaly will be arrested and deported at the expense of the intruder’s home country, and any business that gave the intruder aid and comfort through negligence or with intent shall face sanctions.

2. As a nation of immigrants, we hold legal immigration to be a vital component of what makes America great.

One who has entered the country legaly and worked or studied in good standing (no misdemeanor or felony convictions) for a period of five years may obtain citizenship for him or herself and immediate family (spouse and children).

Any foreign citizen who has served one full and honorable term in one of the US armed services (miimum of two years) may obtain citizenship for him/herself and immediate family. Any foreigner injured or killed in the line of duty during combat, or who obtains a bronze star or higher as a US service member may obtain citizenship for his/her immediate family immediately.

~~~~~~~~~~~

This sounds fair to me.

But to allow those whose first act in our country was to break our laws (illegaly entering the country) some magical right to stay and earn citizenship (cutting in line in front of those who wait patiently for years) is just unadultered garbage, and not conservative at all. Liberals are the ones who reward law breakers, not us. That’s why there is nothing conservative about the policy expressed in the article. I think one will also find that it is Hispanic, LEGAL immigrants who are most opposed to coddling illegal immigrants.

I respectfully dissent.

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe

And may I add...

hoosierteacher (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:49PM EST (link)

…that I never thought I would see a liberal posting on the front page of RS. It seems that I’m in good (and much) company in agreement in this point.

Of course, the author may be right and ALL of us could be wrong. But I doubt it.

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe

 
 

When we have...

The Grognard (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:47PM EST (link)

…a front page article that basically equates a desire for strong immigration enforcement to racism, we’ve definitely gone round the bend.

Its one thing to start a debate about whether or not strong immigration enforcement is conservative.

Its another thing to try and win the debate out of the gate by claiming that those who believe in immigration enforcement are not only not conservative, but are in fact white racists.

The Directors should yank this from the front page until this “gentleman” makes an apology for using the tactics of the left, and rewrites his article without the inflammatory racism rhetoric.

,...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 4:56PM EST (link)

the one line was taken out – and was meant to illustrate how you can’t have it both ways.

None-the-less, this “gentleman” reserves his right to free speech.

Did I miss something? This article was meant to drive discussion, not have me be attacked, or my exercising of free speech be infringed upon.

Brian M Johnson

Free speech

Joshua Persons (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:12PM EST (link)

Calling on RS to moderate its front page is in no way an infringement on your right to free speech.

Formerly jpers36
NARF

 

Johnson, you miss the point entirely.

hoosierteacher (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:14PM EST (link)

You took the line out. Fine. Why did you choose those words in the first place?

Free speech? Who is attacking your “free speech”? The majority (check that, the unanious readership) are just rejecting your view. You though, have resorted to strange ad hominems and odd, lefty comments (like the one you had to delete), such as “2) we have the right to decide” – why, b/c we stole it first?”

You have you free speech. No govenrmental entity has restricted you. I don’t know where you’re coming from on this “free speech” kick.

Either Erick hasn’t read this article (and your comments under it), or this is some kind of a joke/test to make a point in a later upcoming article. If so, no one is falling for it. Your perspective is not conservative at all, and the unanimous rejection it is getting from many (in fact ALL) long time members in good standing makes that clear.

I have a hard time believing that this post is a serious one. I’m expecting an editor (or perhaps you) to admit this was an example of seeing if members could see through a Kennedyeque policy dressed (very thinly) as a “conservative” policy as the media might try to do. If this post of yours is really just a joke (or part of a lesson of some sort), it is going badly and should probably be cut short. Otherwise, I’m embarrassed for the RS front page.

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe

Well said

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:31PM EST (link)

And I agree.

The line about "Anglos" is still their.

hoosierteacher (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:36PM EST (link)

Despite what Mr. Johnson says, it has NOT been removed.

This is getting weirder and weirder. The editors need to get invloved, me thinks.

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe

 
 

Does anyone remember when Brian was congratulated for the privilege of front page status? - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:34PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 
 

Just Another Chapter of Anti-Catholic Bigotry

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:05PM EST (link)

Unfortunately, the comments on this board confirm what I have always suspected: the anti-Catholicism rampant in American history finds its latest iteration in today’s immigration reform fights.

Back in the 1850s, Cardinal Gaetano Bedini was sent as a diplomat from the Holy See to the United States. He was run out of town by hateful Protestant Americans.

There has always been a underlying hatred of Catholic immigrants by native-born Protestant Americans. This has not appeared to change…

Brian M Johnson

Brian...wth!!!....I personally never knew your religion...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:08PM EST (link)

Has your account been hacked?

So far you have call those who disagree with you xenophobes, you have said that we stole America, and now you are claiming that we are just anti Catholic bigots….what is going on here?

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

I am calling for your banning

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:10PM EST (link)

this is beyond the pale.

Molon Labe!

banning?

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:15PM EST (link)

While that last comment was not written by me – banning?

Really!?!

Does anyone cherish free speech regardless of their opinion on an issue?

Brian M Johnson

Who wrote it then?

Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:16PM EST (link)

I just checked. The comment was posted from your IP address, under your account.

So who posted it if not you?

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

I really don't know what is going on

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:29PM EST (link)

But I sure would like an explanation. This is ugly, on the verge of becoming sick.

Just a suggestion

Slightly_Askew (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:43PM EST (link)

Someone email Brian at his contact address and ask if perhaps he left a computer unlocked at his workplace. That, or slip him some antipsychotics. This just smacks of schizophrenia, an account being hacked, or the most successful Moby in the history of RedState (to achieve front page privileges).

Good point

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:54PM EST (link)

“…or the most successful Moby in the history of RedState (to achieve front page privileges).”

You could be right. The only thing that will prevent me from thinking of that from now on is if a sie moderator vouches for him.

 
 
 
 
 
 

Is this a joke?

Joshua Persons (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:17PM EST (link)

A satire? An experiment in seeing how RedState posters will react to identity politics?

I was going to try and put together a coherent criticism of your post, Brian, as well as give due credit to some excellent points you made, but your responses to other critics show it would fall on deaf ears.

Formerly jpers36
NARF

criticism is always welcomed...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:22PM EST (link)

as are reactions and other questions.

And honestly, the social experience thing isn’t a bad idea. But that was not my intention.

Brian M Johnson

 
 

I am available to replace Brian as a front page contributor: my resume

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:30PM EST (link)

The only regular poster here that is a regular conservative voice columnist in two major newspapers and

when I call someone a bigot, its true.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Erick, this would make a nice birthday gift for GC

pilgrim (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:40PM EST (link)

Happy Birthday Mike! Keep on fighting the good fight, and just remember you are not alone even when it seems like some days.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

Another birthday passes for GC as a mere Diarist Period, but

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, May 31st at 10:48AM EST (link)

thankfully a blond blew out my candle for me.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Mike this is really TMI

David Hinz (Diary) Sunday, May 31st at 10:50AM EST (link)

Very happy, since the candle took many blows to extinguish the fire - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, May 31st at 1:03PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 

Thanks for lobbying for me bro - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, May 31st at 10:48AM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 

Clarification...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:41PM EST (link)

When is it anti-conservative to oppose the government setting arbitrary visa caps (Ag, H2-B, etc.); to oppose classifying workers in arbitrary groups of “skilled” or “unskilled” laborers; to oppose the setting of a prevailing government wage for immigrants; to oppose a forced Orwellian E-Verify system that mandates all employers to use; and to call for less government intervention in the relationship between employees and employers (legal or not)?

That is all I was doing.

Yes – some of the rhetoric was to see what response we would get.

No – I did not make that Catholic comment, a co-worker did on my computer.

Yes – the system is flawed and needs reform.

The overall, larger point (not reading and dissecting every word) is that moderate voters, the Hispanic population, and much of the non-conservative base at large view the “conservative” stance on immigration as one that is not welcoming. Rather than fix it to make it easier for immigrants to enter this great country, the current conservative stance is seen as one that tries to make it harder and more cumbersome on immigrants.

That is the hypocrisy I was highlighting.

That limited government means just that – on many fronts.

Brian M Johnson

Its a sign of the times that basic law enforcement has become a "conservative stance" that is unpopular with voters

McKinley (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:45PM EST (link)

So when the left's caricature of us

Hooah_Mac (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:49PM EST (link)

doesn’t match our principles, that makes us hypocrites?

You say you didn’t make the Catholic comment -

What about the anglo comment, the “stole it first” comment, or the other stuff? Those comments are all out of line, particularly on a conservative board where we have no patience for identity politics nonsense.

The conservative stance on immigration is very clear and has always been so:

1. No one should be allowed to enter illegally.
2. Those who enter illegally should not rewarded for it in any way..
3. Our policies should always allow as many immigrants as possible, but regulated so that our society and our institutions are not overwhelmed.

-Priorities-
1. Mission 2. Soldiers 3. Everything Else

 

Very, very weak and well below standards

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:49PM EST (link)

“Yes – some of the rhetoric was to see what response we would get.”

Who is “we”? Deflecting a little criticism there?

If those were your questions and points, you made them about as poorly as you possibly could. Speaking for myself, I don’t appreciate this inflammatory little experiment of yours at all, and I will read your posts and comments from this moment forward beaing in mind how you (or “we”, or whomever) comported yourself today.

 

I don't buy this crap for a second

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:01PM EST (link)

oh and if I ever say something offensive in the future, a “co-worker” made it. Yes, how normal for a RS Frontpager to let co-workers post under their name.

Molon Labe!

I was thinking the same thing

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:09PM EST (link)

Doc Holliday is actually Perez Hilton! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhaha

Hey – get away from my computer! Sorry, Doc.

I might let Paris Hilton post for me every now and then

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:13PM EST (link)

but Perez? uh, no.

Molon Labe!

I believe that

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:15PM EST (link)

And my co-worker is now lying in a pool of blood. Tell Paris “hello” for me.

 

actually Doc

David Hinz (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:18PM EST (link)

hmmm

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:24PM EST (link)

biting tongue…….I haven’t had a good knock down drag out with Hinz in a while, but I have to stay focused on this other David guy….. Two shots in a row regarding the Hilton family but I am still holding my fire for some reason, it is growth? I doubt it.

Molon Labe!

 
 
 
 

well actually, I sometimes let the dawg talk for me...

David Hinz (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:20PM EST (link)

and better looking

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:24PM EST (link)

I kid, I kid :)

Molon Labe!

that statement

David Hinz (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:31PM EST (link)
 
 
 
 
 
 

that last comment was not from me

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:14PM EST (link)

….

Brian M Johnson

You were asked a question, Brian

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:40PM EST (link)

It’s about time you answered.

 
 

Apparently this isn't the first time you have called Republicans racist anti-catholic bigots...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:44PM EST (link)

It's no secret...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:52PM EST (link)

That there has been a shift in Hispanic voting trends and Catholic voting trends (and isn’t this the pro-life party)?

All I pointed out was that during the last round of immigration debates, the Republicans in the House got reamed for coming off as anti-Hispanic.

Call it what you want…that is how it was perceived. I didn’t CALL ANYONE a “protectionist” or a “racist”.

What I did say is that they “came off that way”. Big difference.

That post was about messaging and at that time, conservatives, whatever their views were, had the messaging wrong!

Brian M Johnson

McCain LED the amnesty debate with Bush - yet, McCain got creamed - next question - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:56PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

We parctice racism when we assume all Hispanics are for lawlessness - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:56PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

well...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:00PM EST (link)

They sure as heck aren’t for building a wall!!!

Brian M Johnson

"They"? - you make my point - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:08PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

Brian, your response is one of the classic definitions of racism - Stay tuned for DeVine column this weekend

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:14PM EST (link)

on all the definitions of same and why Sotomayor’s statement defines the #1 classic definition of racism and why to NOT identify it is a separate grave sin in and of itself.

This matter is bigger than you Brian, btw, and given all the great regulars here that have never been frontpagers, please don’t think too much of yourself for being granted that privilege.

Your cries of of anti-Catholic bigotry also repels me both on substance and because I am sick and tired of Catholics being treated as separate from all Christians that share the same values and policy positions.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

Actually Brian, here in Arizona if you spend any

mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:26PM EST (link)

one-on-one time with naturalized Mexicans you’ll discover that they not only want the wall built, they want the border militarized. For the most part they make Tancredo look like the amnesty queen.

Selection Bias

exitsfunnel Friday, May 29th at 6:54PM EST (link)

This must be a case of selection bias because I also live in Arizona (and speak Spanish and volunteer in the Spanish speaking community) and my perception is the exact opposite. Using Arpaio as a proxy for Tancredo for example (not perfect, but probably not horrible), off the top of my head I can only think of two Spanish speakers I know who voted for him versus 25 or thirty who voted against him.

-exits

Bad example.

mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 10:21PM EST (link)

First of all, “I” won’t vote for Arpaio.

Second, and I should have noted it, my limited sample is upper middle class Mexicans who speak English at home and wouldn’t set foot in the barrio if their lives depended on it.

I don’t know any Spanish speakers (legal) who oppose stricter border controls though.

I certainly don't miss Guadalupe...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 10:28PM EST (link)

I got shot at more times there then I did in Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq combined…;^)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 
 
 
 
 
 

Bull crap of the highest order

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:57PM EST (link)

“I didn’t CALL ANYONE a “protectionist” or a “racist”. What I did say is that they “came off that way”. Big difference.”

Sorry buddy – doesn’t fly. Remember this when “you all” posted it? Before the edit?

“If our leaders continue to claim they are “conservative” but argue for government intervention in the hiring of persons (legal or not), the permits for working, the classification of jobs, etc – then they are not conservative (or are, and are just racist).”

 

Do you think we should give up on the pro-life issue too? - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:57PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

So it's just coincedence that you used inflammatory language to describe the party??...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:00PM EST (link)

Seriously Brian, you want to help out with messaging? How about you start by not filling the front page with leftist rhetoric just so you can see the reaction of people.

As far as I am concerned you did call the party protectionist racists…and you enable the perception to be spread by including such language in your post, not only in the past but today.

If you don’t want to have to justify comments like that then you should reconsider using leftist rhetoric to get your kicks.

Just a suggestion.

And lock your dang workstation when you walk away from your desk…if not for the sake of your own security at least for the sake of the RS community.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 
 

Thanks Aaron

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:58PM EST (link)

That’s about all I needed to see.

 
 

man you are way off base Brian Johnson

kyle8 (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:51PM EST (link)

Of all the things the federal government does that it has no business doing, what they do not do very well is police the borders, and THAT is something that they should be doing.

AS for immigration, I always hear people talk glowingly about the past waves of immigrants but they stop there, they never tell the whole story.

Here is the whole story, those previous waves of immigration all caused a lot of problems with urban poverty ,unemployment, and crime. and were followed by periods of low immigration to allow a chance for those millions to become assimilated.

That is something we could use now, a cooling off period.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

waves...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 5:55PM EST (link)

Why were the public school systems and labor unions created?

Brian M Johnson

Labor unions were created - in large part - to

mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:28PM EST (link)

make sure blacks and immigrants couldn’t get jobs.

Public schools were created to teach children to read the Bible.

 
 
 

What was Red State thinking?

mountaineer Friday, May 29th at 6:04PM EST (link)

Stole it? Pray tell, Brian, using your inane logic, what land on this planet of ours was not “stolen” at some point in time? And if you are referring to the claims made by members of the last Asian migration (i.e. the woodland indians), than maybe you should kindly remind them that there where indigenous people already living in North America when they arrived here…see the Adena and Hopewell peoples for ex. Wonder who wiped them out? Big advantages to conquering people when you have no written language and, consequently, leave behind no concrete historical record.

And who and how would the govt. determine whether or not a “migratory worker flow” may or may not constitute a threat to national security. I know it sounds insane, Brian, but maybe those who wish to blow shit up in these United States may just “flow” up north with the rest of the undocumented migratory herd. Also, business owners are burdened with paying taxes, contributing to social security and ensuring that their work force is not smoking crack while operating heavy machinery. Stop quoting the chamber of commerce, Brian, these employers are quite capable of using the E-Verify system.

We had a President, who for eight years courted the hispanic vote non-stop. We had a 2008 Presidential nominee who did like-wise. President Bush appointed Hispanic men and women to various positions in his cabinet. What did it get us? President Bush even attempted to get the brilliant and overly qualified Miguel Estrada appointed to the federal bench, but was denied due to a smear campaign launched by…Latino loving Democrats! See how that works Brian? No matter how much Republicans follow your type of advice, race-based pandering only works for the Democrats, and the media and entertainment industries in this country will ensure that such a situation is preserved indefinately.

Republican’s need to embrace their conservative principals, which includes enforcing the rule of law, as long as said law is constitutional. Ensuring that those who wish to come to this country do so legally in no way violates the constitution or the principals upheld by American conservatives.

so...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:12PM EST (link)

should conservatives just give up?

It seems like you are saying the Hispanic vote burned conservatives so conservatives should just give up on trying to get the vote or on outreach, etc.

I’m just wondering, not fight picking here.,

Brian M Johnson

Win votes...

Craig Steiner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:19PM EST (link)

We should win votes by being conservatives, not trying to target certain demographics. Conservatism, when actually practiced, is universal. We should leave targeting demographics to the Democrats.

 
 
 

I think Mr. Johnson should resign.

hoosierteacher (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:06PM EST (link)

We are to believe that some comments were meant to provoke, while others are from a co-worker? I don’t buy it.

RedState has been embarrased enough by the Pelosi-like bizzare comments and changing stories. The honorable thing to do would be to resign and vanish the post. I don’t care about expousing a liberal view point; that’s fine with me. But some of the comments made by Johnson are well beyond the pale of what a front page poster is all about.

Otherwise, I agree with several other members. The editors will need to step in and clean up this unfortunate mess. I imagine there are some calls or e-mails in progress now amongst the staff. Thank God Neil showed up. At least we know the edtors are aware of what is going on.

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe

Resign?

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:14PM EST (link)

B/c several people here do not agree with what I say?

Isn’t that the antithesis of freedom? Being “forced out”.

I respect all of your dissenting opinions. Yes – some of my postings should have been read with a tad bit more sarcasm – and maybe some of the reactions would not be so heated.

But none the less, your views are your views and I welcome them.

I have still yet to hear a idea on how conservatives message E-Verify, wall-building, visa caps, etc to Hispanics and others.

Brian M Johnson

It isn't your political veiws that are the problem Brian...it is your view that injecting racial and religious bigotry as a substitute for logic that I think most of us have a problem with....nt

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:16PM EST (link)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

that's because when you call us racists

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:17PM EST (link)

anti-Catholics, and say our Forefathers stole the country we tend to forget about the positives and negatives of “E-Verify”.

Molon Labe!

 

You don't deserve reasoned discussion

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:18PM EST (link)

And is this is what I can expect from the front page in the future, there are a hell of a lot of other front pages I will visit, even though this is the only blog I have ever posted on. For you not to see what is wrong with the way you handled yourself here speaks volumes.

And with that, I am going to tend to the burgers – for real this time.

 

You didn't read a word I wrote, did you?

hoosierteacher (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:38PM EST (link)

“B/c several people here do not agree with what I say?”

Didn’t I just write ” I don’t care about expousing a liberal view point; that’s fine with me. But some of the comments made by Johnson are well beyond the pale of what a front page poster is all about.”?

You are calling conservatives racists, made a bizzarre rant about religious bigotry (which you now blame on a co-worker), claim Americans “stole” something, claim a member must be a unionist, etc, etc, etc.

When you resort to personal attacks, admit you are trying to provoke people, have to delete portions of your own work because you didn’t think through the insulting language (and you didn’t delete it), blame others for your comments (or at the very least, allow freakish co-workers to type under your name), it is CLEARLY time for you to go.

Has it dawned on you that you seem to have no friends in this fight? Doesn’t that tell you something? Perhaps you have “provoked” a little too much?

Look, if you want to post a leftists diatribe, be my guest. I honestly don’t care. But when you sink down to provoking people for the sake of “seeing what happens” by impugning their motives (such as calling people racists), you aren’t going to be welcomed with open arms.

If the level of UNANIMOUS response you are getting doesn’t make it clear that you are being rude, then you need professional help and have my sympathy. But for now, your lack of responsibility is reflecting poorly on Red State. Most folks in your position would see that they have made a mistake, and would resign to protect the name of the entity (in this case RS) they serve. That you don’t seem to get this indicates that you are selfish, as well as irresponsible.

Do yourself a big favor. Back off, cool down, and contact an editor. Ask him or her to read your article, and the cmments under it. Ask him or her to support you, or give you honest criticism. I think the experience will be a positive one for you, whichever way the editor goes.

Because at this rate, buddy, you’re digging a pretty big hole.

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe

 
 
 

vote moving issues....

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:07PM EST (link)

The conservative leave us alone coalition is brought together b/c everyone around the table wants to be left alone on their vote moving issue.

I want to be left alone to play with my guns, to home school my children, to run my business, etc.

The coalition works b/c everyone at the table does not have to agree with everyone else. They all agree that on their vote moving issue, they want to be left alone. The homeschoolers don’t try and force the gun owners to believe what they say – and vice versa.

They simply all agree they want to be left alone by the government.

This conservative coalition should most certainly have room for Hispanics, Muslims, Indians, etc…who simply want to come to this country and be left alone.

The current and past conservative platforms on immigration have not made this appeal and have not made various populations feel welcome into the conservative “Leave Us Alone” coalition.

…again….in my opinion

Brian M Johnson

With that in mind why do you feel the need to inject racial and religious bigotry into the equation...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:14PM EST (link)

That, to me, shows that instead of having the live and let live philosophy you are espousing now, what you really mean is everyone should live and let live…except those nasty racist bigoted conservatives who believe in the rule of law and sovereignty of our nation.

…in my opinion.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


the law...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:34PM EST (link)

I am arguing, needs to be changed. Expanded caps for work visas, leave EVerify in it’s current form out of it! It doesnt work!

Brian M Johnson

Well you are doing a piss poor job Brian...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:40PM EST (link)

You shouldn’t start out your attempt to change the law by inferring that those who oppose your solution are racists and religious bigots and protectionists.

Talk about a messaging problem.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

Are you going to address the question?

hoosierteacher (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:40PM EST (link)

Your comment didn’t go to the question at all.

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe

 
 
 
 

Consistency in coherence

Caleb Howe (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:15PM EST (link)

“Where are so-called conservatives calling for less government intrusion in national defense? For folks who CLAIM to want less govt they sure seem to want it overseeing the military. I guess conservative principles only apply if you’re talking about the ballet dancers and dog walkers and that chick at the kentucky fried chicken with the nose ring and those short shorts and long legs. You know the one, she always smiles just a touch more than she has to, and smacks her gum in that sassy way? Nice.”

“Where are our so-called conservatives calling for less government intrusion into deregulation? For people who claim to want less government they sure seem to think it’s the job of government to deregulate industry and decrease government. Why aren’t you calling for government to be downsized by private militias (which are strong now that we’ve got govt out of the national defense business)? You can’t elect small government. That’s an oxymoron. You are either for government being the party responsible for deregulation and self-downsizing, or you are against the government downsizing itself. And puppies.”

Caleb Howe (formerly known as absentee)

Thanks for identifying that inane non sequitur. This guy must be what, 17 years old? National Defense IS WHAT

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:18PM EST (link)

the federal government does!

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 

Well Brian...I will will give you props on one thing...this is the first diary of your's to get over 26 comments...well done...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:36PM EST (link)

but considering the racial and religious bigotry rhetoric it will probably be the last as well

Another Republican success story!!

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

right...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:36PM EST (link)

And border security is a function of national defense.

Security, not blockage.

National defense is a great and indeed legitimate function of the government. Who else is going to keep those pesky Canadians at bay.

(again people…sarcasm here!!!)

Brian M Johnson

/ignore brian_m_johnson

Slightly_Askew (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:44PM EST (link)

I miss ICQ.

moving on…

 

Given your batting average so far...

hoosierteacher (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:45PM EST (link)

…you need to drop the sarcasm. Folks aren’t taking to it so well.

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” – Defoe

lighten up people...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:50PM EST (link)

It’s the inter-web. It’s a great blog. I have an opinion and made some comments you disagree with.

Don’t shy away from RedState on my behalf.

And PS – I have always thought modern day conservatism needed an injection of sarcasm.

…again…just my opinion – which I have a right to.

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” – Voltaire

Brian M Johnson

No Brian you GROW UP and learn that when you call American's lazy and racist on a Conservative site....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:52PM EST (link)

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM…..I hope to NEVER see another diary from you again and suffice it to say if I do I will IGNORE it as if you are as non existant as your lazy Americans are!

 
 
 
 

Has Redstate been the object of a hostile dKos takeover?

David Hinz (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:41PM EST (link)

I mean, when I left for work this morning it was a conservative and Republican site…

…then I see this post, and the post from Sen Cornyn and I wonder…

I never liked Cornyn

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 7:00PM EST (link)

I had a bad feeling about him before it became cool lol. I have noticed a lot of new Front Pagers, some I haven’t even heard of. You know what would be cool? If long term members could vote. Ok, that will not happen but it would be cool. And I would never run, I like being in the background, more of a counter puncher.

Molon Labe!

 
 

An administrative note

Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:53PM EST (link)

This diary once appeared on the front page of the site. It was promoted in error, and has been retracted to the diaries.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

I don't like to gang up on people, but this belongs in the blam file

Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 7:01PM EST (link)

people have been banned for much much less.

Molon Labe!

Agreed....nt

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 7:11PM EST (link)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 
 
 

ok...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:57PM EST (link)

Let’s enforce the rule of law.

But first, can we at least increase visa caps and get rid of E-Verify?

Brian M Johnson

Yes lets enforce the rule of law and wait until Americans are back to work!...nt

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 6:59PM EST (link)
 

End on a good note...

Brian M. Johnson (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 7:11PM EST (link)

Well….at least I am leaving with one person agreeing with me.

For the record – I am not a lefty or a spy.

Some of your comments actually had some good points.

Regardless, I appreciated everything each of you had to say.

Have a great weekend (try not to deport anyone ok) :-) ….just can’t kick that sarcasm.

Brian M Johnson

Race baiting veiled in sarcasm is still race baiting...stay classy...nt

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Friday, May 29th at 7:14PM EST (link)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat