The House is debating HR 1586, a bill that would tax bonuses given to employees of bailed out businesses. The bill would tax “90 percent of the TARP bonus received by the taxpayer.” The TARP recipient’s employer must have received the money from “the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008″ (the TARP bailout), “the Federal National Mortgage Association and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation”, “members of the same affiliated group” (units of the TARP recipients, FNMA and FHLM monies), and affiliated partnerships. Conservatives in the House and Senate need to use this debate as an opportunity to debate how this provision was placed in the Obama so called Stimulus bill and forbidding future bailouts.
This effort in the House and Senate to tax bonuses is not much more than a cover your backside vote to protect the Obama Administration and liberals in Congress who requested, through Treasury, that the AIG Bonus Protection Amendment be put in the Stimulus. If conservatives in the Congress want to show some leadership, they need to use the bonus debate to fight the further nationalization of private enterprise.
The debate on how this provision was added to the Stimulus was intensified yesterday when Senator Dodd admitted to FOX News that Treasury had requested the bonus protection language be added to the Stimulus.
In a dramatic reversal Wednesday, Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., confessed to adding language to a spending cap in the stimulus bill last month that specifically excluded executive bonuses included in contracts signed before the bill’s passage. Dodd told FOX News that Treasury officials forced him to make the change.
Congress should investigate who put the language in the Stimulus and how it happened. Senator Dodd was not a conferee on the Stimulus bill, yet the bonus protection language was added in the secret conference committee on the Stimulus. The Democrat conferees on the bill were Senator Harry Reid (D-NV), Max Baucus (D-MT) and Daniel Inouye (D-HI). Which one of these Senators added the language? Conservatives need to force a debate and possible Amendments setting up a means to investigate who at Treasury requested the change and how the change was added to the Stimulus conference report.
As I previously posted, Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) argued this week that bailouts are the problem — not bonuses.
The bonuses for thousands of employees of AIG – the huge insurance company to which the government, the taxpayers of the United States, have shoveled $170 billion into to keep afloat – recall the Sessions maxim, announced about 20 years ago when I was U. S. Attorney attempting to faithfully enforce a host of federal regulations. It is stated: “Oh, what a tangled web we create when first we start to regulate.”
Conservatives are outraged by the bonuses, because taxpayer monies are being used to reward failure. It seems patently unconsitutional to retroactively tax recipients of these bonuses, yet Congress seems to be putting a legislative Band-Aid over the bailout problem in an effort to do something about the bonuses. Congress should forget about the bonuses, abolish the TARP and investigate how this controversial provision was added to the Stimulus bill if they want to make this debate productive.
Steve Maley
KnightsofMalta
Dan Spencer
Moe Lane
Dan McLaughlin
It's a Bill of Attainder!
GT350 Thursday, March 19th at 1:50PM EST (link)The AIG bonuses stink, but this tax is unconstitutional. The Consititution prohibits Bills of Attainder.
Republicans need to use the debate to:
1) Excorciate AIG execs for bad management.
2) Put the blame for contracts squarely on Geithner. He knew or should have known. He’s a lightweight and out of his depth.
3) Point directly at Dodd’s interference for tying the taxpayer’s hands. Oh, and remind him of his Countrywide bribe, er, mortgage and AIG contributions.
4) Remember your principles: Oppose taxation, especially punitive taxation.
Boehner's office said he urged the Reps. to vote no
ColdWarrior (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:33PM EST (link)on constitutional grounds.
Now, what will McConnell, Kyl and McCain advocate?
I just called McCain’s Phoenix office — they didn’t know. Couldn’t get through to the DC office.
This is a “teachable moment” whereby the Repubs (I see below that 85 House Repubs voted for it — sheesh!) leadership could use the talking points above to explain why the Constitution forbids this kind of “law.”
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for leadership. And expect to be dissappointed.
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your right, it is too bad many are trying to use
Doc Holliday (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 6:00PM EST (link)this for political gain and joining the taxation/extortion bandwagon. I realize there is a split here, even among RS’ers and Front pagers. There is a split in the party to, I believe the vote was about 50-50 yea and nay on the R side. I guess some actually are “outraged” at the CEO’s for real…..well, I kinda sorta guess, I will give them that.
You are right, we need to not let the government get away with the fact THEY are to blame for all of this. The stupid regulations that caused the meltdown, the stupid stimulus bill, and the stupid carve outs for Obama’s and Dodd’s friends.
I don’t care for populism, scapegoating, and abandoning principles. Excessive taxation is always wrong. If AIG broke the law, prosecute them, if not, then move the freak on and blame the Dems.
Molon Labe!
We need to tax the Cheif Executive (President) for lost money
texas214 (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 1:56PM EST (link)The Bill of Attainder should include Obama’s, Dodd,Frank, Pelosi…. as they have caused more wealth destruction than anyone on earth at this point in time. If these taxes are so good then they should be spread around to onclude all of the culprits.
It has passed
Jingles (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 1:57PM EST (link)And 85 Republicans voted for it.
While I dislike
BlueLandRed (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 2:02PM EST (link)retroactive tax changes,
SCOTUS has upheld them in the past, so claiming HR 1586 is patently unconstitutional seems like a bit of hyperbole. While I suspect where bill escapes Congress will face a legal challenge, I don’t think that challenge will get all that far in the courts.
SCOTUS, sadly, hasn't been a decent yardstick for the Constitutionality of things in quite some time...
randy streu (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 2:08PM EST (link)It is patently unconstitutional to retroactively tax somebody. And punitively no less.
Blogging also at
SLC Republitarian
The Minority Report
I'm not disagreeing
BlueLandRed (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 2:23PM EST (link)with you.
AND SCOTUS does a lot of things I disagree with, but they are — by self proclamation, no less — the actually people that get to decide what is and isn’t constitutional and they clearly have permitted this sort of stuff in the past.
That's why we call them the Court of Final Error.
Lammo (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 2:46PM EST (link)n/t
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
The real problem is taxes aren't supposed to be...
Chemical Sam (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:04PM EST (link)distributed unevenly. You’d have to tax 90% of all bonuses everywhere in order for this to be legal. So either they drop the idea, or propagate is everywhere.
Criterion Chemical was in the black for FY2010!
Not bad considering the forces arrayed against small business these days.
Let’s see about actually making some serious profit this year. Shameless capitalism, by:
www.criterionchemical.com
Don't give them any more ideas
Lammo (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 6:38PM EST (link)than they probably already have!
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
You are confusing Ex-Post Facto laws and Bills of Attainder
ehosterman (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:46PM EST (link)While I’m not a lawyer, Mark Levin discussed this several nights ago. The Supreme court ruled many years ago that the ex-post facto provisions of the Constitution only apply to criminal law. Bills of attainder, however, are bills targeted to apply to or punish a narrow population. Whether the tax was retroactive or not would not determine whether it is a Bill of Attainder.
Now whether the current SCOTUS would rule correctly, if this bill was challenged is another story. However, given that this is a special tax applicable only to people recieving bonuses from companies recieving funds from the bailout clearly make it a Bill of Attainder and therefore unconstitutional.
90% tax rate is immoral and outrageous...
Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 2:03PM EST (link)…regardless of the circumstances.
Let Mr. Dodd explain how these bonuses were written into law, but now the Guardians of All That Is Good and Decent want to tax 90% of the benefit away.
These AIG bonuses are the gnat we’re straining at while swallowing a musk ox. At least the $170 million or so might be stimulative; I’d rather see private citizens with their mitts on the dough rather than these irresponsible Congresspeople.
The real threat is the trillions of dollars that will go to fund new entitlements and to permanently entrench the Dems in power. That’s what we should focus on.
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
Yes, Vladimir, the 90% is immoral. And it's a the proverbial
janis (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 2:48PM EST (link)letting a camel get his nose into the tent. If they can shove this 90% tax through this time, then the next time they decide to use it they will have precedent.
Just another brick in the wall..
UpLateAgain (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:32PM EST (link)It would not surprise my paranoid backside to discover this whole thing was propagated by the Dems from the first as a means of getting a test case on a Bill of Attainder that would in the future allow them to pass ex-post-facto legislation (under certain circumstances of course…like when they felt a need to ‘protect’ the taxpayers). Once SCOTUS has allowed them though this door…. watch out. They are attempting to establish a Democratic Thousand Year Reich.
You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.
The Republicans who voted for this stinker ought to be ashamed.
randy streu (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 2:11PM EST (link)They have blatantly chosen politics over integrity, and I sincerely hope they are not rewarded for it as they clearly think they will be.
Blogging also at
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Of course they should!!!!
jerry38 (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 4:51PM EST (link)What are they thinking. Do they even have a clue that this argument could someday (possibly tommorrow at the speed with which this administration steals from the American people) be used to retroactively tax any money that anybody has. Clawback as they call it could be used to steal your savings, or anybody’s savings.
The Republicans should have avoided all outrage directed to AIG and should have solely directed it towards the Dems. They are jumping on a bandwagon that says a private citizen who contracts to perform work for a sum of money is subject to having that money taken from them, if only the government feeeels like it.
This thing is wrong on so many levels it boggles the mind. I am not suprised that they chose politics over integrity, but joining in the use of the full force of the Government of the United States to attack and steal from a select group of private citizens is outrageous.
I am disgusted. Again, the leaders of our party are throwing away a perfectly good opportunity to show that they have integrity when it is so obviously lacking on the other side.
At least this will buffer the rage I will feel next week when they all jump on the bandwagon of fighting the weather with our money.
“Justice is always naive and self-confident; believing that it will immediately win once recognized. That is the reason why the forces of Justice are so poorly organized. On the other hand, the Evil is cynic, sly and fantastically organized. It never ever has the illusion of the ability to stand on its own feet and to win in a fair competition. That is why it is ready to use any kind of means without hesitation. And of course it does – under the banners of the most noble ideas.”
–Vladimir Bukovsky
We know know two things
10ksnooker (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 2:11PM EST (link)1. Congress doesn’t read the bills.
2. Congress doesn’t read the Constitution.
And many of them like Obama, claim to be Constitutional attorneys. Who’s Constitution?
Read the Constitution? That's why we have a SCOTUS...
Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:20PM EST (link)…plus a Constitutional scholar in the
White HouseExecutive Mansion.Plus which, the Constitution is a living, breathing document, n’est-ce pas?
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
Bonus outrage?
Maggie_in_Indiana (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:03PM EST (link)There was more outrage over the TARP Bailout itself. The Democrats and the moderate republicans have used this to gain public approval more than anything. They care about our tax dollars,right? After all they are concerned our tax dollars were mis-spent on individual employee pay and targeted individual citizens for a 90% tax. I have never heard of any tax at 90%,but it must be a good thing right?
Of course this would not be just a ploy to distract Americans from the Cap and Trade BS and the taxes soon to follow on every single American . It wouldn’t be to distract Americans while Obama and Pelosi cook up Socialized Medicine legislation,would it? After all Obama went on Leno last night to talk to the folks and let them know he’s a regular guy who likes basket ball and cares about their families and the environment. We must be nuts to think they’d try to hood wink the entire nation with a scheme like this,right?
All the news coverage and blogging on this surely must have helped them push this bill,right?
Geesh.
Maggie in Indiana
They must all think we are really stupid
JustLeaveMeAlone (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:08PM EST (link)Congress voted for this nonsense. They didn’t bother to read the bill(s) they voted on, which ought to be grounds for impeachment, recall, and treason.
Now they want an unconstitutional Bill of Attainder to cover up their own mess.
This public outrage and chest beating is just for show. And we know it.
Throw all the bums out. Starting with Obama, then Reid and Pelosi, then Dodd and Frank, then all their ilk, including the Republicans who enabled them.
“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
They think we are as lazy and stupid as they are...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:11PM EST (link)2010 is going to surprise them.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Recalls have in order for a long time.
Maggie_in_Indiana (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 3:15PM EST (link)I know some are taking these Tea Parties very seriously but they should be. These folks who taking their time to protest for what they believe and we are saying here are getting more angry. Anger can be a good thing it produces action,but left to itself and there could really be trouble on the rise. Recalls are not that a big of a stretch,considering the stupid bills flying through Congress.
I have to go bug my Senators now,at least I’ll get the satisfaction to know my email was one more to be deleted.
Maggie in Indiana
Senator Harry Reid
Brian Darling (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 4:32PM EST (link)Just tried to pass the House Obama CYA Act of 2009 bill with a Senate substitute and Kyl objected.
IMHO, almost half of the Rs made a wrong decision on this.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 4:40PM EST (link)They should have never participated in this bill.
This is supposed to be the time to honorably vote “PRESENT”.
The Dems are using taxation of a “few” private individuals as a weapon of control.
here are some of the votes, Rod (from Thomas website)
pilgrim (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 5:33PM EST (link)Ds who voted Nay
McMahon D-NY-13
Minnick D-ID-1
Mitchell D-AZ-5
Snyder D-AR-2
Kissel D-NC-8
Bean D-IL-8
non RMSP and non appropriation Rs who voted Aye
Barton-TX
Bilirakis
Blunt
Boozman
Brown
Buchanan
Cao
Cassidy
Davis-KY
Duncan
Forbes
Fleming
Gallegly
Goodlatte
Guthrie
Heller
Herger
Hoekstra
Jones
Lee-NY
Manzullo
McCaul
McClintock
McHugh
McMorris Rodgers
Micah
Moran-KS
Putnam
Roe-TN
Rogers-AL
Rogers-MI
Rohrabacher
RooneyRos-Lehtinen
Roskam
Royce
Ryan-WI
Schmidt
Schock
Shimkus
Smith-NJ
Smith-TX
Stearns
Wittman
Young-AK
Just Called Schmidt's Office
jerry38 (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 6:02PM EST (link)I know Jean a little bit we go to the same church, and have worked w/her a bit on pro-life issues. Her local guy just told me that I was right 1000 times. I could barely get a word in before he told me I was right. And then he explained why she had to do it anyway as a way to “get some of the taxpayer money back.” Oh, by stealing from other tax-payers I guess. Jean knows bettter, or I least I thought she did. Two wrongs still dont make a right – even once you get out of kindergarten.
“Justice is always naive and self-confident; believing that it will immediately win once recognized. That is the reason why the forces of Justice are so poorly organized. On the other hand, the Evil is cynic, sly and fantastically organized. It never ever has the illusion of the ability to stand on its own feet and to win in a fair competition. That is why it is ready to use any kind of means without hesitation. And of course it does – under the banners of the most noble ideas.”
–Vladimir Bukovsky
Thanks, bro for the info.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 6:14PM EST (link)But it’s too late.
Boehner and Cantor must show more strength in leadership next time around.
The Republican lawmakers should be MORE CAREFUL from now on.
After all, they have taken the lead over the Dems in the Rasmussen polls for the first time since 2006.
The wind of politics has really shifted against the Dems in just 2 months.
three on the list that trouble me
pilgrim (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 6:41PM EST (link)Blunt
Ryan-WI
Putnam
These three I would have thought to line up with Boehner and Cantor. Maybe Blunt is ticked for losing to Cantor.
I still think they are just jumping on the bandwagon
Doc Holliday (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 6:18PM EST (link)and voting what the polls say. Just think, they have now destroyed contracts, one of the pillars of capitalism.
Molon Labe!
Do you drive a Hummer?
GT350 Thursday, March 19th at 5:01PM EST (link)I will agree that these AIG bonuses were gross and egregious.
Some people also think that Hummers are ecological WMD, and they are gross and egregious. They waste precious resources, generate CO2, etc etc.
We’d like to tax that Hummer at 90%. Please pay Sec. Geithner at the door, thank you for playing.
Now onto the next sucker, er, taxpayer:
– Do you sell fast food?
– Are you involved in the tobacco industry?
– Do you work for an HMO?
– Do you live in a large house?