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	<title>Comments on: Congress Prepares to Create Some New Unintended Consequences</title>
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	<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/</link>
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		<title>By: Rapunzel46</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3693</link>
		<dc:creator>Rapunzel46</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 04:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3693</guid>
		<description>figures out what this is going to do to tax collections next year... it isn&#039;t going to be pretty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>figures out what this is going to do to tax collections next year&#8230; it isn&#8217;t going to be pretty.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike gamecock DeVine</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3692</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike gamecock DeVine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3692</guid>
		<description>Skander&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skander&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Skanderbeg</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3691</link>
		<dc:creator>Skanderbeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3691</guid>
		<description>To be fair, the above was me quoting Mark Steyn quoting Joe Nocera - in the New York Times (?!?!) of all places.

This is a great educational moment in many ways - such as explaining that on WS &quot;bonus&quot; really means &quot;the variable part of compensation that is largely the variable part&quot;....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, the above was me quoting Mark Steyn quoting Joe Nocera &#8211; in the New York Times (?!?!) of all places.</p>
<p>This is a great educational moment in many ways &#8211; such as explaining that on WS &#8220;bonus&#8221; really means &#8220;the variable part of compensation that is largely the variable part&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike gamecock DeVine</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3690</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike gamecock DeVine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3690</guid>
		<description>was delivered to Obama and esp to and then the dems to obama that the 90% tax was a bridge too far. I don&#039;t think this will pass the senate.

Reality is biting
the war continues

http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2009/03/23/cockstradamus-reality-bites-obamalib-dem-agenda/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>was delivered to Obama and esp to and then the dems to obama that the 90% tax was a bridge too far. I don&#8217;t think this will pass the senate.</p>
<p>Reality is biting<br />
the war continues</p>
<p>http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2009/03/23/cockstradamus-reality-bites-obamalib-dem-agenda/</p>
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		<title>By: redneck_hippie</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3689</link>
		<dc:creator>redneck_hippie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3689</guid>
		<description></description>
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		<title>By: Skanderbeg</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3688</link>
		<dc:creator>Skanderbeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3688</guid>
		<description>Might as well toss this in here....


It&#039;s Frank&#039;s world. We just live in it.   [Mark Steyn]

Unfortunately.

In The New York Times, Joe Nocera takes a while to get going, but makes some good points:

This week, the body politic ran off the rails... How is the political reaction to the crisis making it worse? Let us count the ways.

IT IS DESTROYING VALUE During his testimony on Wednesday, Mr. Liddy pointed out that much of the money the government turned over to A.I.G. was a loan, not a gift. The company’s goal, he kept saying, was to pay that money back... In other words, it is in the taxpayers’ best interest to position A.I.G. as a company with many profitable units, worth potentially billions, and one bad unit that needs to be unwound. Which, by the way, is the truth. But as Mr. Ely puts it, “the indiscriminate pounding that A.I.G. is taking is destroying the value of the company.” Potential buyers are wary. Customers are going elsewhere. Employees are looking to leave. Treating all of A.I.G. like Public Enemy No. 1 is a pretty dumb way for a majority shareholder to act when he hopes to sell the company for top dollar...

IT IS DESTABILIZING How can you run a company when the rules keep changing, when you have to worry about being second-guessed by Congress..?

At this point, most Wall Street bankers would rather be attacked by wild dogs than take part. They fear that they’ll do something — make money perhaps? — that will arouse Congressional ire. Or that the rules will change... Not all the employees who face the possibility of having their bonuses taxed out from under them work for the evil financial products division... Taking away their bonuses — after they’ve already put the money in their bank accounts — hardly seems like the right way to motivate them.

Maybe they can&#039;t see it from the shamrock-hued vistas of their &quot;cottages&quot; on the west coast of Ireland, but the political class has done nothing this last week but destroy the wealth of this country.

As President Reagan said, we are a nation that has a government, not the other way round. The nation pays for the government, not the other way round. I pay for Congressman Frank and Senator Dodd, not the other way round. I would appreciate it if they&#039;d take up a less destructive pastime, perhaps joining Senator Kerry in windsurfing off the Irish coast in buttock-hugging yellow Lycra. If you  have even a modest asset - a small house, a sluggish savings account or pension provision - these people are making you poorer. Good luck digging yourself out from under.


http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Nzc2OTdlMGNkZWI5YjRkNzU1YmJjZjJiZGYxZjc3MDY=</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might as well toss this in here&#8230;.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s Frank&#8217;s world. We just live in it.   [Mark Steyn]</p>
<p>Unfortunately.</p>
<p>In The New York Times, Joe Nocera takes a while to get going, but makes some good points:</p>
<p>This week, the body politic ran off the rails&#8230; How is the political reaction to the crisis making it worse? Let us count the ways.</p>
<p>IT IS DESTROYING VALUE During his testimony on Wednesday, Mr. Liddy pointed out that much of the money the government turned over to A.I.G. was a loan, not a gift. The company’s goal, he kept saying, was to pay that money back&#8230; In other words, it is in the taxpayers’ best interest to position A.I.G. as a company with many profitable units, worth potentially billions, and one bad unit that needs to be unwound. Which, by the way, is the truth. But as Mr. Ely puts it, “the indiscriminate pounding that A.I.G. is taking is destroying the value of the company.” Potential buyers are wary. Customers are going elsewhere. Employees are looking to leave. Treating all of A.I.G. like Public Enemy No. 1 is a pretty dumb way for a majority shareholder to act when he hopes to sell the company for top dollar&#8230;</p>
<p>IT IS DESTABILIZING How can you run a company when the rules keep changing, when you have to worry about being second-guessed by Congress..?</p>
<p>At this point, most Wall Street bankers would rather be attacked by wild dogs than take part. They fear that they’ll do something — make money perhaps? — that will arouse Congressional ire. Or that the rules will change&#8230; Not all the employees who face the possibility of having their bonuses taxed out from under them work for the evil financial products division&#8230; Taking away their bonuses — after they’ve already put the money in their bank accounts — hardly seems like the right way to motivate them.</p>
<p>Maybe they can&#8217;t see it from the shamrock-hued vistas of their &#8220;cottages&#8221; on the west coast of Ireland, but the political class has done nothing this last week but destroy the wealth of this country.</p>
<p>As President Reagan said, we are a nation that has a government, not the other way round. The nation pays for the government, not the other way round. I pay for Congressman Frank and Senator Dodd, not the other way round. I would appreciate it if they&#8217;d take up a less destructive pastime, perhaps joining Senator Kerry in windsurfing off the Irish coast in buttock-hugging yellow Lycra. If you  have even a modest asset &#8211; a small house, a sluggish savings account or pension provision &#8211; these people are making you poorer. Good luck digging yourself out from under.</p>
<p>http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Nzc2OTdlMGNkZWI5YjRkNzU1YmJjZjJiZGYxZjc3MDY=</p>
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		<title>By: RJD</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3687</link>
		<dc:creator>RJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3687</guid>
		<description>retention bonuses and performance bonuses.  Something the media has forgotten to point out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>retention bonuses and performance bonuses.  Something the media has forgotten to point out.</p>
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		<title>By: red4ever</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3686</link>
		<dc:creator>red4ever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3686</guid>
		<description>Shocking, I know.   But, those folks are working for $125,000 for a few years, because they know after that they will command million dollar salaries on K street as lobbyists.    It is short term low income, in exchange for a life time of big salaries.    Those folks don&#039;t actually see the million dollars salaries as a travesty.   If they do, they are extremely short sighted to not realize that if the goose that lays the golden egg dies, so do their mansion dreams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shocking, I know.   But, those folks are working for $125,000 for a few years, because they know after that they will command million dollar salaries on K street as lobbyists.    It is short term low income, in exchange for a life time of big salaries.    Those folks don&#8217;t actually see the million dollars salaries as a travesty.   If they do, they are extremely short sighted to not realize that if the goose that lays the golden egg dies, so do their mansion dreams.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike gamecock DeVine</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3685</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike gamecock DeVine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3685</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: paulincolo</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3684</link>
		<dc:creator>paulincolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3684</guid>
		<description>ideally it is pay for performance.  It is almost always (talking Wall Street types here), for the revenue center employees as opposed to the cost center type.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ideally it is pay for performance.  It is almost always (talking Wall Street types here), for the revenue center employees as opposed to the cost center type.</p>
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		<title>By: redneck_hippie</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3683</link>
		<dc:creator>redneck_hippie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3683</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: itrytobenice</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3682</link>
		<dc:creator>itrytobenice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3682</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d keep those suckers on starvation wages with no pension just so I could get them to get the {blank} out of town and never come back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d keep those suckers on starvation wages with no pension just so I could get them to get the {blank} out of town and never come back.</p>
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		<title>By: silentcal40</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3680</link>
		<dc:creator>silentcal40</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3680</guid>
		<description>we&#039;re farther gone than i thought</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we&#8217;re farther gone than i thought</p>
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		<title>By: silentcal40</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3681</link>
		<dc:creator>silentcal40</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3681</guid>
		<description>we&#039;re farther gone than i thought</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we&#8217;re farther gone than i thought</p>
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		<title>By: redneck_hippie</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3679</link>
		<dc:creator>redneck_hippie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3679</guid>
		<description>of lowering age requirement for MediCare to 55, I believe it was. Wonder if that is one of the &quot;around the fringes&quot; items The One wants to push this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>of lowering age requirement for MediCare to 55, I believe it was. Wonder if that is one of the &#8220;around the fringes&#8221; items The One wants to push this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Kowalski</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3678</link>
		<dc:creator>Kowalski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3678</guid>
		<description>How difficult was it to realize that this was going to be a political circus when you have Dodd writing the language at the behest of &quot;someone&quot; in the Obama administration?  People should have been able to smell that one coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How difficult was it to realize that this was going to be a political circus when you have Dodd writing the language at the behest of &#8220;someone&#8221; in the Obama administration?  People should have been able to smell that one coming.</p>
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		<title>By: Kowalski</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3677</link>
		<dc:creator>Kowalski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3677</guid>
		<description>I would have deferred these compensations:  How can you award people at AIG big tips?  Even if it makes sense legally, it doesn&#039;t make sense morally.  The reaction to it is something the Democrats counted on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have deferred these compensations:  How can you award people at AIG big tips?  Even if it makes sense legally, it doesn&#8217;t make sense morally.  The reaction to it is something the Democrats counted on.</p>
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		<title>By: RJD</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3676</link>
		<dc:creator>RJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3676</guid>
		<description>A &lt;b&gt;bonus&lt;/b&gt; is paid out in one sum in January 09 for performance in 08. An extra along side one&#039;s salary.

But, an employ receives a &lt;b&gt;raise&lt;/b&gt; on their base salary for overall performance on their hire date (or maybe in a block with other employees).

(I&#039;m in the IT/Internet/New Media field, and the companies I have worked for offer salaries + benefits (health, life ins., 401k), but no bonus, as in a lump sum payment. Salary raises are awarded once a year, usually, based on performance from a pool of about 3-5%).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A <b>bonus</b> is paid out in one sum in January 09 for performance in 08. An extra along side one&#8217;s salary.</p>
<p>But, an employ receives a <b>raise</b> on their base salary for overall performance on their hire date (or maybe in a block with other employees).</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m in the IT/Internet/New Media field, and the companies I have worked for offer salaries + benefits (health, life ins., 401k), but no bonus, as in a lump sum payment. Salary raises are awarded once a year, usually, based on performance from a pool of about 3-5%).</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Cianfrocca</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3675</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Cianfrocca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3675</guid>
		<description>I think a lot of people have missed this aspect of how financial firms (including AIG FP) work. Most of the people work for a base salary that is a relatively small portion (sometimes a small fraction) of the market value of the work they do.

And the firms designate a bonus pool to be distributed across the whole firm. What happens is that you sit down with your supervisor in November, and you get awarded a bonus (paid in January) that reflects the performance of the firm as a whole, and of your own performance relative to your direct peers.

The whole idea is to engender an atmosphere of internal competition that can easily become unhealthy, but is definitely part of the way these firms have always worked.

If the government decides that high bonuses are just something they don&#039;t want to see in firms receiving government assistance, then firms will start doing what they&#039;re already doing now: doubling people&#039;s base salaries or more, and setting lower expectations on the bonuses they may receive.

But if you accept that the prospect of receiving much or most of your pay on a schedule that depends on your performance creates a more competitive and thus more productive atmosphere, then what the government is doing will make financial companies less productive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a lot of people have missed this aspect of how financial firms (including AIG FP) work. Most of the people work for a base salary that is a relatively small portion (sometimes a small fraction) of the market value of the work they do.</p>
<p>And the firms designate a bonus pool to be distributed across the whole firm. What happens is that you sit down with your supervisor in November, and you get awarded a bonus (paid in January) that reflects the performance of the firm as a whole, and of your own performance relative to your direct peers.</p>
<p>The whole idea is to engender an atmosphere of internal competition that can easily become unhealthy, but is definitely part of the way these firms have always worked.</p>
<p>If the government decides that high bonuses are just something they don&#8217;t want to see in firms receiving government assistance, then firms will start doing what they&#8217;re already doing now: doubling people&#8217;s base salaries or more, and setting lower expectations on the bonuses they may receive.</p>
<p>But if you accept that the prospect of receiving much or most of your pay on a schedule that depends on your performance creates a more competitive and thus more productive atmosphere, then what the government is doing will make financial companies less productive.</p>
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		<title>By: silentcal40</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2009/03/23/congress-prepares-to-create-some-new-unintended-consequences/#comment-3674</link>
		<dc:creator>silentcal40</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=261#comment-3674</guid>
		<description>one of my favorite labor protests in france (and there are many to choose from) occurred about five years ago.  the paris firefighters marched in the streets, upset they were unable to retire as early as they wanted.

when could they retire?  55.  when did they want to be able to retire?  50.

our system is unsustainable already, and our benefits are fewer and our retirement age higher.  

but if we become the next European Socialist State, you can surely expect that the next step will be to increase the benefits further and make the retirement age even lower.

(and, of course, this doesn&#039;t even consider all the life-long benefits, like health care, unemployment pay, etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one of my favorite labor protests in france (and there are many to choose from) occurred about five years ago.  the paris firefighters marched in the streets, upset they were unable to retire as early as they wanted.</p>
<p>when could they retire?  55.  when did they want to be able to retire?  50.</p>
<p>our system is unsustainable already, and our benefits are fewer and our retirement age higher.  </p>
<p>but if we become the next European Socialist State, you can surely expect that the next step will be to increase the benefits further and make the retirement age even lower.</p>
<p>(and, of course, this doesn&#8217;t even consider all the life-long benefits, like health care, unemployment pay, etc.)</p>
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