With yesterday’s declines, we now have an “official” Obama bear market, defined as a 20% decline. The S&P 500 index closed at 850 on the last trading day before Obama’s inauguration, and now it’s at 682. And it barely took six weeks.
Don’t let ANYONE tell you that this is Bush’s fault, or that Obama inherited the decline. The stock market by definition is a leading indicator. It predicts the future for corporate earnings, not the present or the past.
The stock market is saying that with Obama in office, the outlook for business is poor. And with his promises of higher taxes and more regulation, Obama is doing his very considerable best to reinforce the negative perception.
Next time you open your 401(k) or mutual fund statement, try not to flinch at the thought that a great big bear with Obama’s face is looking over your shoulder.
Steve Maley
KnightsofMalta
New Drinking Game
NotSoBlueStater (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 9:41AM EST (link)Have a shot every time Obama gets away with saying “inherited” in his 2012 re-election campaign.
“Inherited” is probably the one word he can remember without a teleprompter at this point.
-
The Conservative creed has never offered a life of ease without effort. Democracy is not for such people. Self-government is for those men and women who have learned to govern themselves. – Margaret Thatcher
don't let anyone tell you?
omar Friday, March 6th at 9:47AM EST (link)Seriously? Every economist knows better than to judge the economy only on the stock market. The only possible way you can even attempt to place the blame on Obama would be to completely ignore the tremendous recession we currently are in and pretend that nothing happened prior to his election. The stock market is saying that previously infallible institutions are being bailed out on the order of 100s of billions of dollars with the alternative being complete economic collapse. And it isn’t even only America, it’s global. Are Obama’s policies ALL correct? Probably not. Did SOMETHING need to be done? Yes. It’s going to take time, plain and simple.
That's not what he said, omar
JustLeaveMeAlone (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 9:58AM EST (link)The market has traditionally and statistically been a forward indicator of the economy. That’s a fact borne out by history.
The market does not react; it anticipates.
Now, is it all Obama’s fault? No. But if he’d not piled on mind-boggling spending and waste in his attempt at social engineering, we’d all be better off.
“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
two points
streiff (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 10:32AM EST (link)first, if you guys had said this in 2001 I wouldn’t be laughing in your face right now.
second, the stock market began collapsing and unemployment rising with the November elections as businesses began factoring in what they suspected would be Obama’s economic policies. As those policies have become more obvious the decline in the market has accelerated as has unemployment.
By 2012, Obama may very well be the first president since Herbert Hoover to have personally created a depression out of a recession.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
Not ONE of Geithner's top 17 deputies has been
Old_Crow (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 10:33AM EST (link)named never mind confirmed. Complete and utter incompetence coupled with a leadership failure.
Next step: The Obama Depression.
We will be longing for the days we were down ‘only’ 20%.
“Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm.” — James Madison
What do the rules say about these deputies
djemi (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 10:57AM EST (link)I thourght that if the BO wanted to he could wait until Congress was not in season and just appoint who he wants?
“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy
those darn ethics
Common_Cents (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:52PM EST (link)They can’t find one free of tax problems.
Wonder how many of our ElectedElite have their names on that UBS list of 47,000.
Gee, wonder if Soros or a Kennedy is on that list.
Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from,
behind, the Back Nine.Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.
PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE!
citizenfx Friday, March 6th at 11:13AM EST (link)EVERY ECONOMIST KNOWS BETTER? I am an active investor and economist. The stock market is the the blood temperature of the patient. As Francis said it is forward looking six to eight months. If you knew anything about anything, the market looks at every economic signal second by second to determine the health of the patient down to the 1000th of a degree. In result you have the most democratic system of voting with your economic money with literally a billion people worldwide voting to protect their economics.
THIS WHOLE DOWNTURN SINCE JUNE OF 2008 HAS BEEN AN OBAMA EVENT!
Remember, Francis said 6-8 months. Let’s see JUNE + 6 months = December. Thats well past the Nov. 4 Election.
When did Obama take the nomination? June.
What Party was predicted to take the Presidency? Democrats
What did all the independent Polls predict through summer?BO
What Congress was in control since 2006? Pelosi-Reid Dems
What party was polled to pick up the most seats in both hs? Dem
Who had the most Anti Capitalist record ever? BO and Pelosi Reid
Who changed the Banking rules In Nov 2007 to mark to market which in the middle of the game paralyzed the Banks? Dems, Frank, Dodd, Geithner who was head of the NY Fed
Any betting man, which is the stock market, knew that this patient was going to be deathly ill in 6 months.
Still don’t believe me! Ok let me give you some evidence. Most Money managers will drastically change their portfolio in mid Jan to March. This is due to tax reasons, management change overs and major research that comes in the 1st quarter.
Go and look at all of the HMO charts. UNH, AET, HUM, WCG and many others. These stocks all drop precipitously in Jan to March of 2008. These guys knew back then that Universal health care was probably on its way. They weren’t willing to risk their own moeny back then.
Now if you can’t fess up and realize that all of this crash is because of the B_ad O-dor called BO or barry or whatever. Then you were probably the same guy who voted for him blindly and thought this guy would govern from the center.
Oh, yeah all the evidence in his record pointed to a radical socialist-communist. Who could be surprised.
SO ALL YOU Hope-Heads who still won’t come to terms.
I got a bridge and a whole Hell of a lot of stocks I’d like to sell you!
I'd like to make 1 more prediction!
citizenfx Friday, March 6th at 11:50AM EST (link)I am not a fear monger and I would never do this if the evidence right now doesn’t show this is coming.
We are headed for the Greater depression if the leadership doesn’t start opposing this Guy damn soon. I love REDSTATE, but we need to start screaming or we are all going to be deathly poor through wealth destruction or inflation destruction.
GET THROUGH YOUR DENIAL STAGE AND GET ANGRY!
BO and Geithner are doing this on purpose to destroy any economic opposition in the future from any enterprise. This is why they are incredibly absence and letting the crash occur + all the Limbaugh distraction.
THIS IS NO JOKE! I’ve studied every recession including the Great depression. This looks worse. Why? Because back then there were no other enterprise countries to replace our role + the government was not intentionally trying to destroy us.
Intentionally? Yes
Remember back during the election when BO was asked if he would raise taxes during a Recession. He was advised by 10 of the best economists who said that it would be a death nail to do that. BO said he would consider the circumstances and thought it would be a bad idea. Did anyone listen to Geithner’s testimony over the last couple of days. It was all about raising taxes – during a recession to boot!
CAN YOU SAY DOUBLE DEATH NAIL!!!!!!!!
The patient isn’t even dead yet and they are nailing that coffin shut
China and Russia can easily supply the world with goods and energy and our financial structure which we outsourced to the rest of the world and replace our role.
All that will be left of America is the vision of a debtor squatter not unlike that of these ACORN Protestors trying to save a Home for a NINJA borrower who should have gone into foreclosure back in 2007
THEN IT WILL BECOME MANDATORY TO PRAY TO THE MESSIAH, They call “The One” in order to get your Government handout!!!!
I am going to have to dig up my Fedora in my attic so that nobody recognizes me in the bread line.
citizenfx....Forbes disagrees with you on this:
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 11:50AM EST (link)“Who changed the Banking rules In Nov 2007 to mark to market which in the middle of the game paralyzed the Banks? Dems, Frank, Dodd, Geithner who was head of the NY Fed”
….. A Bush fault, according to CEO Forbes. (Go to WSJ and read for yourself.)
But of course, Forbes is another dimwit CEO.
a Bush fault for letting it happen.
citizenfx Friday, March 6th at 11:58AM EST (link)Wow, do some research! I believe Bush blew it for letting it happen. Try doing some independent analysis and look at the Senate committee hearing for FASB 157 and look at the real players.
If the MSM is your source i won’t waste my time responding to your lame claims.
Hey, don't shoot the messenger.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:13PM EST (link)ha ha ha!
I’m on your side on this.
I’m not expert on the field. I would like to encourage Francis or you, bro, to make a counter-opinion on this.
Now, you see citizenfx.... why I didn't
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:34PM EST (link)try to elaborate.
I doubted this Omar the first time I read his post.
Right-ish
omar Friday, March 6th at 12:13PM EST (link)Your right, it’s not only bush’s fault. That is absolutely correct, the president doesn’t right the laws, congress does. The problem is… he inforces them. we need only look at the Madoff case to see how AWFUL the SEC was doing. The unfortunate reality is that it’s not important whether bush directly caused it. He and the republicans created a very loose, as unregulated as possible market which in part, brought us to where we are now. Do they get all the blame? No, but I think it’s safe to say we would be better off had more and better regulation been in place.
I thought the Madoff case
mom2oneson (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:25PM EST (link)was about a woman? Wasn’t there a female relative of his involved with someone higher up in the SEC and that is why he got away with what he did?
It wouldn't suprise me
omar Friday, March 6th at 1:06PM EST (link)I certainly hope it was something like that. I don’t place blame on the administration. I merely referenced it as a case in point of regulatory failings. Influences like that really shouldn’t have been enough to cover up the scale of losses involved in madoff.
I call troll on Omar...check his posts...all are talking points
Attack Mode (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:26PM EST (link)Also there is the purposeful degradation of President Bush by the consistent lack of recognition as the president and the consistent lack of capitalization.
Bush unregulated the market?? Not really true, especially when you talk about the enormity of the regulations that exist. You should understand this Omar, after all you were lamenting our inability to comprehend scale in this post.
And in another post you decided it would be cool to call one of our front page poster’s logic retarded.
Real classy…this type seems so familiar.
Anyhow I am gonna call Hinz rule and watch him implode once people ignore him….who’s with me.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I'm onboard, Aaron. Just read one of his unpunctuated screeds
janis (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:30PM EST (link)and saw all the same markers that you did. Someone over on the left should write up an article about how to infiltrate a righty board, but I have a feeling that it would require the complete re-education of most of them, not to mention the money it would suck up for etiquette lessons.
I am onboard too.
barry915barry (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:38PM EST (link)He rants, without facts, with the best of the Left.
they couldn't do it Janis....
Attack Mode (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:43PM EST (link)they would never be able to hide their true intentions….it just ooozes out of them, no matter how hard they try to hold it back.
In order for them to actually infiltrate they would have to expose themselves to information that would either cause their heads to explode or they would be converted upon see actual truth. It would never work out in their favor.
I worry though because the trolls/moby’s internet style is the same as a suicide bomber in their mentality….I mean they know that their mission is suicide but they do it anyhow, with the hopes of causing mass casualties in the process. At some point I think these people will no longer just be online.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I agree, unfortunately, Aaron. The lawlessness
janis (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:16PM EST (link)that is so blatant in this administration signals that many of those who tamped down their impulse to do harm may have the implicit permission to act out their violence.
Please
omar Friday, March 6th at 2:00PM EST (link)Not all of us are an ayers. (apparently I’m a liberal on this website, I really prefer independent. since I can’t accept the whole message of either side)
Not trying to hide
omar Friday, March 6th at 1:25PM EST (link)Obviously I’m not attempting to hide my intentions nor do I consider my self a troll. Granted, I’m posting blatantly liberal posts but I’m here because I’m trying to understand the far right point of view. Sorry if I don’t post numbers to back my claims, in the future I can do that if you’d like. I incorrectly assumed that the statements I was making such as going over the causes of our current economic collapse were accepted facts.
I never said bush unregulated the market, on the contrary, I absolved him of much of the blame and placed it mostly on congress. Oh, and I’d prefer if you didn’t double and misquote me to construe that I called some guy an idiot. I was criticizing his proposition that an insignificant portion of the market should warrant any concern or is even remotely news worthy. I really don’t care if you guys start ignoring me but I find it amusing that you would target me for using “talking points” when it seems to me that you guys do the same thing only the opposite side. Oh, and btw, I don’t watch TV (seriously, I don’t, it’s all so biased it’s crap) so to me, they’re not talking points they’re just what I’ve figured out from reading the internet, which clearly includes this website. I have no intentions, no motivations, I mean for god sakes what could I possibly hope to achieve by posting comments on one of the most conservative political websites out there. What could I possibly have to gain from “infiltrating” you guys. I’m genuinely trying to understand this massive polarization that seems to be happening in American politics. The two sides are just so far apart I’m trying to understand what’s going on and who’s actually right.
You What??????
citizenfx Friday, March 6th at 2:03PM EST (link)Omar said, “Sorry if I don’t post numbers to back my claims, in the future I can do that if you’d like. I incorrectly assumed that the statements I was making such as going over the causes of our current economic collapse were accepted facts.”
You incorrectly ASSUMED????? Did you correctly assume that you would make an ASS out of yourself.
You are the type of ignorant liberal that is willing to be so delusional about “assuming that the statements I was making …were accepted facts.” You are willing to believe that when the this ship is sinking that its not water the boat is taking on its just acceptable wet fluid.
I HOPE YOU GO DOWN WITH THE “O”-ship, AS I KNOW YOU WILL FIND SOME WAY TO JUSTIFY THE “Acceptable” SACRIFICE
I hope that everyone continues to mark this guys comments for the DELUSIONAL HACK that he is
That’s not just “Acceptable” , THAT TRUE!
P.S. If you truly want to understand the otherside. Maybe if you actually did research and didn’t ASSUME you would realize why we are divided an pissed about the thievery of every American citizen. We all live in the REAL WORLD.
Thanks for taking one for the team, citizenfx.
janis (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:07PM EST (link)And I agree 100%.
ignorant?
omar Friday, March 6th at 2:16PM EST (link)Please, hardly, I am far from your average American citizen. I believe our ship is almost already sunk and that something needs to be done. I never once said I agreed with Obama’s policies, all I said was something had to be done and we need time to find out if it works or not. Sorry, I was kinda cocky in my posts, I’ll work on that in the future but it honestly frustrates me when I see blame being placed when we haven’t even figured everything out yet. Honestly, if I give incorrect facts, or the events I mentioned didn’t happen please correct me, like I said, it’s why I’m here.
Oh and the research thing? really? Are you guys going to make the same B.S. statements that are found on digg etc. when someone conservatives posts there?
Ok, I'm calling troll
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:34PM EST (link)Idiot said:
Oh and the research thing? really? Are you guys going to make the same B.S. statements that are found on digg etc. when someone conservatives posts there?”
Conservatives rely on facts. We’ve done the reasearch. We’ve studied the results from the actions taken in the past when dealing with economic downturns.
We understand history. We know that FDR’s New Deal prolonged the Great Depression. We KNOW that after wards, his Treasury Secratary wrote that all the spending they did would never be enough, that the government cannot spend it’s way out of a recession.
We studied Kennedies tax cuts in response to recession and how they worked. We saw the results of Jimmy Carters socialist approach to recession. Can you say 70% tax rates and 20% plus inflation?
And we say how Ronald Reagans tax cuts rescued us from the Carter socialist debacle.
Do your own freaking research.
Troll!
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
AMEN!!!!
citizenfx Friday, March 6th at 2:54PM EST (link)YOU GOT IT RIGHT- Vegas!
We do research and know our facts. That’s why we fought so hard to expose O during the election as a Radical Socialist-Communist.
The facts showed this to be true.
Conservatives live in the real world based on facts. This is why conservatives are the most successful people in the world.
They don’t run their lives based on Hope and fantasy, and the facts never fail them.
As an investor, the stock market is based on HOPE, GREED and FEAR.
HOPE is the worst emotion a trader can ever possess. It always fails. i.e. I hope WorldCom comes back next year.
Here’s Hoping that every liberals head explodes in the next year.
this kind of
streiff (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:44PM EST (link)tendentious nonsense will get you punted.
Complaints were filed with the SEC against Madoff during the Clinton Administration.
I thought all of you guys were against the “unitary executive” notion, anyway. Even if you believe in it, the SEC is an independent agency.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
Oh, ok.
omar Friday, March 6th at 2:10PM EST (link)I didn’t know the complaints were filed during the Clinton administration. This is why I’m posting here, I’d LIKE to be corrected properly not just bashed and called an idiot.
Good, here's another one
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:22PM EST (link)The Community Reinvestment Act, signed by Carter a dem and stengthened by Clinton, a dem, forced banks to expand their criteria for home loans to include those who could not afford a standard FHA mortgage with 20% down.
The dems then “encouraged” the banks to come up with adjustable rate mortgages to help these people.
Freddie and Fannie were created because banks, rightfully, resisted saying these were bad loans that people could not repay. The dems said Frannie and Freddie would buy the loans, so don’t worry.
In 2003 and again in 2005 President Bush and the Republicans tried to roll this abortion back by reigning in Frannie and Freddie. The dems were having none of it.
Now, you’re informed on the subject of the mortgage crisis. I did not provide links because a good student will do the research on their own.
You’ re welcome.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
alrighty
omar Friday, March 6th at 2:40PM EST (link)I’ve still got some research to do so this will be a quick response because I don’t want to lose this conversation (and I don’t mean lose the “debate” I mean if I wait to long I’ll never get a response). So I’m gonna have to accept everything as whole sale fact and attempt to formulate a quick conclusion. Here we go, don’t skewer me too badly.
The government incorrectly pressured financial institutions and formulated fannie/freddie to increase the amount of housing loans being made. Generally a bad idea as too much artificial increase in any market is guaranteed to cause a boom/bust cycle. Now, on the flip side of this, you have what appears to be unforeseen consequences. Stupid, no doubt, anyone in their right mind could see that making it too easy to give loans would lead to increased losses. Now, this is where I’ll probably need you to correct me but I’m assuming the law had nothing in it to create subprime loans. And I’m also sure there was no consideration of predatory lending, which definitely happens and was rewarded by the system because the guy giving the loan got a bonus for getting the loan out and was not on the hook for giving a loan to someone he shouldn’t have. And then we have the whole debacle with the ratings system and credit default swaps. So from what you’re saying though democrats sorta started this by encouraging lower criteria for loans but I don’t believe they went so far as to force subprime loans or the complicated systems created in the securities market. So, my interpretation is the democrats goofed a little, but all the blame?
Yup, all the blame. nt
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:57PM EST (link)“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
ok
omar Friday, March 6th at 4:17PM EST (link)But you do realize that’s very comparable to blaming bush for not knowing the iraq war would take way longer than he initially professed.
As my interpretation lends me to what are largely unforeseen or unintended consequences. Good intentions, bad results.
Here's the bottom line, Omar
eburke (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 3:09PM EST (link)this mess was caused by greed encouraged/mandated by government actions and laws. You had *some* greedy lending institutions making bad loans to *some* individuals who either bought more home than they should’ve known they could ever afford ’cause they thought the gravy train would never end, and *some* individuals who shouldn’t have been buying houses period.
You’ll never find the words “sub-prime” in the Clinton-era CRA or any other law, just mandates in the law whereby many institutions, *required*
to up the number of loans to people they knew weren’t creditworthy; followed by FM & FM buying up all these loans encouraged by Dems like Dodd & Frank in Congress; followed by Sarbanes-Oxley (both Dems jic you were wondering) designed to punish *all* those “greedy” businesses for the sins of a few; S-O led to a p*** load of burdensome accounting regulations including mark-to-market which requires solvent lending institutions to mark down perfectly sound assets to the level of the lousy assets of sister institutions which, viola, makes *them* insolvent.
And when Republicans tried to blow the whistle on the house-of-cards Ponzi scheme early in the Bush administration, the Dems, who received buttloads of money from Fannie and Freddie (Dodd, Frank & Obama being the leading recipients of campaign contributions) blocked every attempt.
So…here’s the conservative position: 1) Liberal, socialistic (read ‘government’) desires to ‘level the playing field’ caused this mess; 2) Those currently in charge blocked every attempt to stop it; 3) supposedly, the people who *caused* this nightmare are now deemed to be the ones who know how to fix it; 4) every conservative I know is outright outraged that those institutions and individuals who chose to be responsible and not participate in the greed orgy are now having to pay the price, literally, for the ineptly run institutions and the greedy morons who chose profligacy over fiscal responsibility.
This problem was *caused* by the government for heaven’s sake. How in God’s name do we honestly think they can fix it?
“All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
Unified Patriots
thank you
omar Friday, March 6th at 4:22PM EST (link)honestly this debate got wayyy out of scope for what I was intending. but thank you so much for not being a d**** and simply addressing my arguments and giving your point of view. Oh, and not calling me an idiot because if anything, my rambling prose should be indicative that I have half a brain.
I didn't say that
streiff (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 3:10PM EST (link)I said complaints, not “the” complaints, were filed. Madoff had complaints filed against him several time under two administrations.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
Utter garbage...The Dems were all for loosening credit standards
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 3:10PM EST (link)Go see the Barney Frank YouTube videos. He was all for taking greater systematic risk that comes with a maximized allocation to housing “on behalf of the poor.” (With friends like that, who needs enemies?)
Remember the “Flip this house” environment? Go look up how many mortgages were 1) issued and often guaranteed by Fannie & Freddie ($5.5 trillion) and 2) funded/purchased by Fannie/Freddie (over $1 trillion).
To the contrary, the Dems were all for subsidizing mortgage risk (while Greenspan was simultaneously doing his part to attract too much to the sector through low general interest rates.) When the music stopped (the supply of greater fools looking to buy as much house as possible ran out), no amount of micro “regulation” was going to hold back the tidal wave of deleveraging pain.
It’s not a whole lot different than the tech bubble crash, other than a) the housing market plays a much larger role in our economy, and b) government played a major active role in the bubble’s inflation.
It is absolute hypocrisy for those that championed a policy of a pedal-to-the-metal allocation to the housing sector to point the finger elsewhere.
It's getting like that now
mom2oneson (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:23PM EST (link)More and more people are going to government. The public assistance state offices are so over loaded with new applicants. A friend has been a cashier at Wal-Mart forever and she said so many more people are using food stamps now and it’s people she has known for years from working there and never thought they would be on assistance. Even the buying clubs like Sam’s are accepting food stamps now and they never accepted food stamps before even though Wal-Mart always has.
actually
JustLeaveMeAlone (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:12PM EST (link)Most of the deregulation of banking occurred during Bill Clinton’s tenure.
But I do NOT understand why the mark-to-market rule doesn’t get tossed out. That would fix a large percentage of the financial system’s problems with a stroke of the pen.
“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
So... Obama/Democractic policies caused this?
omar Friday, March 6th at 12:04PM EST (link)So, I dunno, let me just try to understand what you’re saying, the markets saw who was going to get elected and started plummeting as a result. I’ve heard other people blame liberals for where we’re at are you saying the banks intentionally gave loans to people who couldn’t afford them while simultaneously relabeling them as safe loans? (And yes, the people who took them were dumb too, the problem goes both ways and has nothing to do with who ever was going to be elected). Then liberals created a second insurance market guaranteeing the awful loans for billions of dollars. And then the radical left orchestrated a resulting crash from the massive housing bubble. All of this resulting in a tremendous credit freeze due to a collapse of a rating system reliant upon trust of rating companies that had their interests vested in maintaining the system regardless of the potential future consequences. We had a market setup to significantly reward short term gains with no immediate incentive for long term investments. You’re ignoring all of the fundamental economic causes. All of this was going on while we had a massive gas price spike driving customers away from our traditionally profitable massive SUVs and trucks. Made worse by a credit freeze, plummeting consumer confidence resulting in massive losses from our second largest productive industry, that being the auto industry. And I should clarify that statement because I’m sure you’re going to hound me that banking and service industries are huge here, and they are but banking is going to hell too. So that’s 3/5 massive industries (forgot about the tech industry but they don’t employ nearly the same numbers). But our two fundamental industries that employ the most people locally and create large physical products are housing and the auto industry. So here we are and both of our largest producing industries plummeting with what used to be the heart of America (detroit, and the auto industry) going bankrupt and you’re telling me the stock market is plummeting because of predictions of increased corporate taxation and socialist policies due to a virtually guaranteed democratic ascension to power? Come on.
Please be logical
citizenfx Friday, March 6th at 12:24PM EST (link)No the first levels of borrowing came from the economic drive of Greenspans easy money.
Bank and Insurance companies created mathematical models prior to this which could never of anticipated that the rules would be change on them after they took on all of this risk.!!!!
Be logical. Think of the SuperBowl. Do you ever think that the Steelers could have pulled of a Win? If in early the fourth quarter when they we’re losing gound. (not unlike higher oil prices and a slowing economy) that the ref. said that they could no longer use Roethlisberger as their quarterback. What would that do to the confidence of the team? i.e Banks. They would probably lose confidence and not want to extend loans. The heart of Capitalism and the housing industry which is the cause of our problems.
Our economy is alive and reactive to any inputs. It is constantly adjusting to the defense. Understand that and you will understand what happened and what is going to happen.
Citizenfx
mom2oneson (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:30PM EST (link)Thanks for explaining all of this!
Yes, I know greenspan started it
omar Friday, March 6th at 1:32PM EST (link)He implemented intensely low interest rates and the market loved him for it. Do you remember? He was doing it to keep the market going. I remember when the rate cuts would be announced it was a great day on the market and everyone was happy. But, if you read everything I wrote then you’d see he didn’t make a bunch of bad loans or everything else that we know to have happened. The problem with the economy is there isn’t one bad spot there are tons of hugely bad spots, thus my indignation at blame being placed one singular person or policy. It borders on absurd on the face of it when you consider all the different industries and economies not just here, but globally that are and were on the way to the absolute shitter long ago.
Watch the language Omar...nt
Attack Mode (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:35PM EST (link)“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
sorry
omar Friday, March 6th at 1:41PM EST (link)I figured if it was ok for cable tv it was ok for here.
Omar I have to catch myself when driving
mom2oneson (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:44PM EST (link)with little ears in the backseat.
oh forgot to mention
omar Friday, March 6th at 1:37PM EST (link)I’m not familiar with the rules changes, please educate me on this one. I don’t believe the rules were changed that much, The problem as I understood it is that loans were marked AAA when they shouldn’t be not to mention tremendous losses on the more risky investments. And with the ratings system being put into question on the largest segment it consequently ruining confidence in the system because there are all these loans and assets that no one knows how much they are truly worth anymore because of the tremendous amount of shifting and repackaging and relabeling.
you should forget to mention
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:41PM EST (link)your entire posting history demonstartes a complete lack of understanding of markets, financial systems and economics.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
way to attack the person
omar Friday, March 6th at 1:50PM EST (link)and not the argument.
ok, YOUR Arguments are uninformed and nonsensical
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:55PM EST (link)You, I’m quite, sure are a wonderful person
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
The economy CAN NOT RECOVER until govt debt
Old_Crow (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 12:28PM EST (link)is cut back. So look for a 2-4 year severe recession/depression. Only chance of a less bleak future is that the Dem Congress gets voted out mid-term and Obama’s policies get reversed.
Don’t try to parse the causes of this mess. The liberal Community Reinvestment Act forced banks to loosen lending guidelines or face federal law suits. You can fault Bush for not fighting hard enough to oppose the FNM/FRE fraud, but McCain and several Repubs were raising this issue as a crisis since 2001.
“Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm.” — James Madison
Yes.... Carter's CAIR .. the real culprit!.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:40PM EST (link)The Worst American President.
….. and all the “intellectually bankrupt” Ivy League professors who adulterated their studies and lied before the Congress on the political correctness of CAIR and its succeeding amendments/expansions.
psst
omar Friday, March 6th at 3:05PM EST (link)A cursory search of news articles related to the housing crisis reveals that economic indicators were already coming out in march of last year. For instance this article http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCmeZdngmXgI&refer=home
last updated march 19, 2008 about the bush administration allowing freddie and fannie mac to carry less cash and invest more in housing due to already slumping housing markets.
The stock market is a LEADING indicator, omar
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:38PM EST (link)It tells us what people who understand money, economics and markets think the future looks like.
It does not look good.
Your super hero could have prevented this with policies that inspire confidence instead of the mish-mash of socialist trial balloons we’ve seen so far.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
See but I kind of addressed that
omar Friday, March 6th at 1:48PM EST (link)I’m absolutely willing to accept that it’s a leading indicator the problem is you guys are interpreting a number that’s generated from a set of equations measuring a small percentage of the overall economy significantly influenced by many more and greater things than public policy. Could we maybe be a little bit better off? Perhaps, that can’t be said though until time goes on and we can see the results of the policies that have been implemented. Do you think that maybe, just maybe those smart guys who know the economy and are thus deciding which stocks they buy are maybe just maybe making these predictions because they see huge unemployment rates, massive losses and other things which were predicated far before today and which can’t be immediately forestalled in anyway by any policy.
The market is an indicator of investor sentiment and confidence
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:26PM EST (link)Public policy is one of the biggest influences on the market.
Just turn on CNBC at 2:15 est on a day that the fed is anouncing new interest rates. Watch what happens.
Look at the history of Obama and Geithners policy speeches and the IMMEDIATE reation of the market.
You asked:
“Do you think that maybe, just maybe those smart guys who know the economy and are thus deciding which stocks they buy are maybe just maybe making these predictions because they see huge unemployment rates, massive losses and other things which were predicated far before today and which can’t be immediately forestalled in anyway by any policy.”
In a word, no.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
DJIA closed at negative 280+. Amazing...err... Shocking!!!! nt
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 9:47AM EST (link)Yes, the market is forward-looking.
skorrent1 (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 10:20AM EST (link)And it began looking forward to a likely Obama Presidency sometime last summer. DJIA down about 5000 since then.
Exactly - at least he should get the blame for the drop since the election
bk (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 10:23AM EST (link)Forward-looking is a word of the past. The new buzzword is downward-looking. nt
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 11:52AM EST (link)Don't worry POTUS is calling for Twitter to help save the economy...
Attack Mode (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 10:38AM EST (link)Now Twitter has grown by 700% over something like the last 2 years, but it is a free service and doesn’t make any of it’s money in the American market.
But the comments from this article are…encouraging?? Yeah, encouraging…At least there appear to be many out there from both sides who are beginning to smell the stank of the top cheese….Pres. Obama and his policies.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
LOL!!!! nt
mom2oneson (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 10:42AM EST (link)nt
Maybe the Leader should announce a bailout of the stockmarket.
dvdmsr (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 10:52AM EST (link)He could raise taxes on the vile evil rich (who only pulled their money out of market just to make him look bad) and use money to finance a government investment/stake in various publicly traded companies thus stimulating the market. He could use a blindfold, a dart, and a copy WSJ to pick the companies.
Personal Responsibility Conservative
First signs of CHANGE here:
Achance (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 11:02AM EST (link)Yesterday Conoco-Phillips announced it was cutting 80 jobs in Alaska. Not much point in exploring for oil during this administration.
Today, FedEx announced it was laying off or moving 68 pilots from its Anchorage base. Anchorage International is by most measures the largest air cargo port in the World. 68 pilots is 34 crews for the heavies that do the over-the-Pole or Trans-Pacific freighters. A crew and plane probably do two turns a week and for a round number carry maybe a quarter million pounds of freight. So, that’s somewhere between fifteen and twenty million pounds of freight that isn’t moving now that was a few weeks or months ago. If it is worth putting on a 747 or MD-11 to move to or from the Orient and Europe, it is high value cargo, so the downstream impacts are significant.
In Vino Veritas
Francis, Forbes' OPED at WSJ says, in effect, it's Bush Worst Market Policies
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 11:38AM EST (link)particularly on the Banking Crisis.
What’s your take?
Here's the link
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 11:47AM EST (link)http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123630304198047321.html
More consequences
techsan (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 11:42AM EST (link)So…the so-called “stimulus” bill rips thru congress without analysis…and Sen Dodd (D-Connecticut) adds 11 (!) pages of pay restrictions. Amazing!
One particular chilling part:
So…Dodd makes reseravtions for a CEO? Insanity!
In the end, all we have on our side of the debate are facts and history.
So what is this telling the market?
djemi (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 11:57AM EST (link)Senate Banking Committee chairman moves to allow the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to temporarily borrow as much as $500 billion from the Treasury Department
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/05/senate-moves-loan-fdic-billion/
Are they expecting that many banks to fail?
“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy
Absolutely
omar Friday, March 6th at 12:06PM EST (link)It’s already established that at least roughly 200 banks nationwide will be failing over the course of this year.
Obama the middle class destroyer
publiussteve Friday, March 6th at 12:17PM EST (link)Rush just said that since 11/4, the Dow has lost 1/3 of its value, wiping out 3 trillion.
And with the terrible the unemployment figures released today, Obama is opposing the E-Verify employment verification system that ensures jobs go to Americans, not illegal immigrants.
With his ignorance of and indifference to this — the collapse of the stock market wiping out our 401Ks, IRAs, 529s, pensions, American workers getting clobbered — Obama is proving he is the enemy of the middle class.
Let's set the record straight.
The_Rebel (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 1:22PM EST (link)September 26, 2008 was the date it became apparent to the world that Obama would be the next president. The Rasmussen daily tracking poll put him at 50% with a 5-6 point lead. On that day, the Dow Industrials closed at 11,143. At this moment, the Dow is at 6,522, or a drop of over 40%. Since the market is foward looking, this is without doubt the Obama Bear Market. It’s just worse and began sooner than most people realize.
Exactly.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:00PM EST (link)I remember.
That was the day when the Americans mocked McCain’s optimism and chose Obama’s fear of depression.
To correct
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:03PM EST (link)myself on this:
Not all Americans.
The 48 stood high and followed McCain’s optimism.
I feel sad for 52.
Correction:
aesthete (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 3:40PM EST (link)McCain’s depressing-but-not-as-depressing-as-Obama view
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Obamination Obamaconomy
Common_Cents (Diary) Friday, March 6th at 2:03PM EST (link)Obama didn’t single handedly cause our problems but the market’s interpretation of the future with BO in charge was based on Obama’s words, campaign promises, voting record, associations, history is very very negative and destructive, rightly so. So with the fact that the market is forward looking, Obama owns much of the economic situation since his nomination and lead in the election campaign.
At the VERY LEAST, Obama should be held responsible for his actions on how he is handling things on day 1. He campaigned and ran knowing many of the problems and said he was the solution. Obama is making poor decisions since day 1 and needs to own them.
Rahm is right. This is why ElectedElites LOVE crisis. It is a blame free environment to radically implement your agenda. If stuff hits the fan you point fingers and say hey, at least I tried something. Nobody would hold a doctor accountable as much for doing a dumb think w/ a super critical patient.
But any fool w/ a shred of common sense and actually attended Econ 101 more than once, knows not to show up to a house fire with a can of gasoline.
Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from,
behind, the Back Nine.Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.