Obama’s Fiscal-Discipline Trial Balloon


So it appears that Obama has floated a deficit reduction “plan,” and it seems like much deeper voodoo than anything we could have come up with. I use the scare quotes because, as always with this President, there’s no actual plan with details we could evaluate (and maybe criticize). All he did was float some ideas out to the Washington Post.

Call it Economic Management by Press Release.™

Peter Orszag, a capable guy that you wouldn’t make for a liar or a political hack, said that they’re going to cut the federal deficit in half by the end of Obama’s first term. That’s the political spin you’re supposed to take away from this: Fiscal discipline is something Republicans promise but Democrats achieve.

Except that Bush’s highest deficit was last year’s, at about $450 bn, or 3% of GDP. Obama’s first year in office will feature a deficit of $1.2 TRILLION, 8% of GDP, a post-WWII high.

WaPo says that cutting this deficit in half by 2013 would mean a deficit in that year of over $500 bn. The cut-in-half deficit we’re supposed to be all streamy about will be higher than that of any of the Bush years.

And they’re not even counting the stimulus plan and the increased debt-service payments from it! They could easily run a trillion dollar deficit in 2013 and say they kept their promise.

Ok, so much for political theater. On to brass tacks. Federal spending this year will be a whopping 26% of GDP, far above the postwar norm of about 22%, with tax collections about 16% of GDP. By 2013, Obama wants spending down to 22% and taxes up to 19%, for a deficit that would amount to about 2% of GDP or a bit less. I can’t make that figure tie out with Orszag’s projection of a $500 bn deficit unless you assume the economy is going to be growing at just about the fastest rate in history. Who knows, maybe they actually believe their own rhetoric.

It’s considerably more likely that the economy will not grow appreciably in real terms over the next five years. You can’t pump federal spending 4 or 5 percent of GDP above trend and not suffer major reductions in overall productivity. The government doesn’t invest, it spends. That’s one point.

The other point is that you can’t increase aggregate production in the economy unless you increase real rates of return on capital. And that’s the one thing this budgetary trial balloon doesn’t talk about. Let’s look at how they want to cut the deficit from 8% of GDP to less than 3% (keeping in mind that 3% was the high range of the Bush years, and the level that caused Democrats to eviscerate us in the campaign as fiscal profligates).

First, they want to defund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Figure at the far outside, there’s $100 bn a year there. Next they want to fiddle with entitlement spending. Figure there’s a big fat zero there. Older people vote, and they have enough time to march on Washington and scare the living daylights out of Congresscritters in their home districts. Third, they want to let the Bush tax cuts expire. The only way for that to raise much money is for wealthy people to start making money again. With an economy on life support, on top of caps on executive pay, that’s not likely to happen. Figure there’s $100 bn/year there at the outside. Fourth, they want to treat the capital gains of investment managers as ordinary income so they can be taxed at a much higher rate. That will only cause those managers to pass the cost onto their limited partners in the form of lower investment returns. You might get some money out of that trick, but it will come back out as lower performance (and thus lower taxes) in the economy as a whole, so I’m calling that one a wash.

And what if they decide to go for broke and raise taxes heavily on all high earners? Even Democratic economists agree that this is a very effective way to keep a recession going.

I don’t see a way for this Administration to run a deficit any lower than one trillion dollars in any of the next four years. The very fact of extremely high federal spending as a share of GDP is self-perpetuating, because it keeps the private economy from recovering. Add the disincentive of higher marginal tax rates on top of that, and you’re just asking for more weakness.

At the rate we’re going, and given the advice he’s getting, Obama might find himself thinking that he might need to start a world war, to get us out of this mess. God forbid.


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26 Comments Leave a comment

Orwellian seems to be overused

NickDeringer (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 8:43AM EST (link)

That’s exactly what this is. “We can’t be overspending. We still have all these trees to cut down to make more paper to print more money.”

Fourth, they want to treat the capital gains of investment managers as ordinary income so they can be taxed at a much higher rate.

Again, Obama says one thing, but in effect does the exact opposite. What was all that stuff in the debates about capital gains only going up 5%???

The capgains rate will go up from 15% to 20%

Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 9:19AM EST (link)

Which is still far too high to encourage any kind of new investments. We still have the banking crisis to get through before there’s any talk of stabilizing the economy, but after that (which could take up to five years), then capgains tax rates should be no higher than five percent, and ideally zero.

The thing he’s talking about here is carried interest. When a guy who runs a private-equity fund takes 20% of the gains in the portfolio he manages, those gains are capital gains. (Just like ducks are ducks and the sun is the sun.) As capgains, they’re taxed accordingly (15% now, 20% soon).

What Obama wants to do (and this is actually something that Congressional Democrats have been howling for, for at least two years now), is to reclassify those capital gains as ordinary income. That means they’ll be taxed at 39.6% federal.

Of course the fund manager will simply increase his percentage of profits from 20% to 28%. That makes it all tie out neatly, and his after-tax income doesn’t fall. The people who pay the extra tax will be the pension-funds and university endowments that made the original investment.

Sneaky

NickDeringer (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 9:28AM EST (link)

In the end the average investor is loosing. The “little guy” who is depending on a union pension fund is actually getting the shaft. Colleges will need to increase their tuitions which means they will be looking for more government funding through grants and financial aide to students.

The bottom line is we loose…

 

Oh great. Just when I DON'T need cap gains to rise...

Praying (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 12:20PM EST (link)

We’re just average middle class folks. I don’t play the market – I have a bit of stock that I’ve inherited that I’m using to pay for college for my two boys. Stock that was bought like in the 1950s. So it has basically a zero cost basis. So I pay HEAVILY in capital gains when I sell my stock to pay the tuition. When we were planning a year and a half ago, I had plenty of value in my “investment account” to allow both boys to pretty much go to college where ever they were smart enough to get in. So my oldest is at Washington & Lee. $50 grand a year. But a great school, he loves it, he’s swimming for them (Division III athletics – no scholarships). My second is still in high school, and I’m hoping he gets into the Air Force Academy. I’m not using these funds to play the market, or buy expensive cars or boats. I’m hardly one of the “greedy rich” (the Republicans of which give FAR more to charity than our liberal, cheapskate neighbors, by the way). My husband is a high school teacher, I work in environmental consulting. We don’t owe money on cars, and we put down about 80% of the cost of our last home, so our morgtage is extremely affordable. And the stinking government is going to raise capital gains to WHAT?? What is going to happen to all these private colleges when American students can no longer afford to attend, because their parent’s investment accounts went AWOL?

I love the insanity of these budget plans. A “tax cut for 95% of Americans.” Oh, and to pay for that, and the stimulus, we’re raising taxes on businesses and the “wealthy”. To make sure that even more of you find yourselves out of a job, and can be part of the Obama Welfare State. Arrrggggghhh!

No!!!11!1!!1!1! The Bilderbergers are coming

 
 
 

I continue to wonder when, not if, The One

USNJIMRET (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 9:13AM EST (link)

will declare some kind of “National Emergency”?
One that can, marginally even, justify the quasi legal take over of enough of the, currently, non governmental financial infrastructure of the Nation that the Government becomes the Financial Infrastructure of the Nation.
BTW, I realize that “Economics” is not a “Hard science”.
But I did believe that it was a firm enough science that the idea of a Republican versus a Democratic ‘economist’ simply sounds like a made up difference.

How is that any different from what we have now?

Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 9:21AM EST (link)

It isn't really, I guess. It will just be more obvious to everyone. NT

USNJIMRET (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 9:36AM EST (link)
 
 

Peace Dividend?

bk (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 9:29AM EST (link)

Is there a lot of smoke and mirrors there too?

For example, do they count the entire cost related to the troops there as a cost of the war? (I’m betting they do.) Well if that’s the case, then when Private Smith and 10,000 of his closest friends return, we can compare something like this:
“war” cost – his salary and benefits and extra “in harm’s way” payment
“peace cost” – his salary and benefits
“war” cost – housing and meals abroad
“peace” cost – housing and meals here
etc.

It seems like that part’s a wash except for the extra payment that comes with deployment. Now obviously there are savings of not having to move so much equipment and supplies through a danger zone on the other side of the world and so on, but I’m betting this “peace dividend” is really maybe 10-15% of what the Dems claim it will be, but they’ll add the entire 100% to other pet spending projects.

LOL

djemi (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 11:35AM EST (link)

Yeah up dating and improving the equipment that our troops need with all the private sector jobs that that saves/creates are not important.

“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy

 
 

might need to start a world war, to get us out of this mess

djemi (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 9:39AM EST (link)

Well it is the best way to get the public to except decronian(man I hate being dyslexic) laws. Personally I believe we will see civil war before we see world war.

“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy

Just to clarify

Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 10:00AM EST (link)

What I had in mind with that remark is the conventional wisdom that it took World War II to end the Great Depression. During the war, federal spending was two thirds of GDP. We ran a straight printing-press operation at the Treasury to keep it funded, and we had to ration critical commodities to keep inflation under control.

I get the distinct feeling that some current Keynesians, including Paul Krugman, actually want to see something approaching that level of federal interference in the economy (minus the war, of course, which no one wants).

American industry, British depolomancy and Russian blood

djemi (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 10:13AM EST (link)

Thats how I was taught that the war was won. That and the tons of ‘Old European’ gold that came back on those Liberty ship(someone found 400tons at the bottom of the channal the other week, but Brown is cliaming that there are no savage rights)
The conventional wisdom is that it took World War II to end the Great Depression, not a truer statement has ever been made.

“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy

400 tons of gold

Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 10:19AM EST (link)

By my count, that’s just under $10 billion. Not bad from one ship.

Of Course

red4ever (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 11:13AM EST (link)

there are no salvage rights. The British Left needs that gold for its own bailout. See related article here.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
Dante

Where is the link?

djemi (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 11:28AM EST (link)

Not that I have tourght myself that one yet.

As for the bailout that the British Left needs well there in just not enough TEA in China to cover that bet.

“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy

 
 
 

That particular ship and its gold are from

Achance (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 11:45AM EST (link)

and earilier time, I think. Not that a lot of gold didn’t come back on US ships and planes. Most nations, including ours, consider their warships to be their sovereign territory no matter where they are including lying on the bottom of the sea. Who gets what in the salvage gets sorted out in Admiralty Court. When the CSS Alabama was found a few years ago off Cherbourg a huge battle ensued between the salver, the US, GB, and France and between the US and some US states – and she wasn’t even a treasure ship; here artifacts were only interesting to historians and collectors.

One of the great legends here is Alaska involves a US C-54 that was said to be a CIA flight from China carrying a large chunk of the Nationalist gold and some Chinese officials. It left Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage one dark and stormy night headed for the Lower 48 and was never seen or heard from again. There were all sorts of theories ranging from Alaska’s most common epitaph, “controlled flight into terrain,” to a high-jacking to some sort of inside job. Even today, the air route south and east out of Anchorage goes over absolute wilderness and there are the remains of all the emergency fields along the Alcan and in other places set up during WWII. It was easy to theorize the plane just getting down below Elmendorf’s radar, easy to do back then, making for one of those strips and unloading. There would be nothing unusual about a military plane landing and unloading something anywhere in Alaska back then or even today. Then a pilot could take off, set the autopilot to take it towards any one of a number of over 10,000′ mountains in the area and bail out to rejoin his co-conspirators.

Anyway, a couple of years ago some treasure hunters found parts of a body and some aircraft parts on a glacier in the area many have always suspected. DNA linked the body parts to a known member of the crew. But, until they find the plane, the mystery and the theories will persist.

In Vino Veritas

 
 

Amen, we don't want war or rationing. Anyone that thinks

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 12:24PM EST (link)

a wwii economy would be good is crazy.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

Keynesians should recognize that the WWII economy was demand driven

6eorge Jetson (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 12:39PM EST (link)

in the larger picture of things.

What did the US consumer want during WWII? He/she wanted to win the war, of course!! And the only possible provider of that was the US government. Winning the war overseas and home-front rationing was pretty much a “Pareto Optimal” allocation. (The allocation was reasonably optimized.) And further, the well-tolerated rationing created a pent-up demand for goods to help the US transition out of the war economy. Raise your hand if you want to be rationed today.

Sans an all-consuming war, can the government discern what the people want? The command and control economy has been tried to the extreme in Russia/Eastern Europe and to a fair degree in Western Europe. How have those economies performed versus the US since the dawn of the Reagan Revolution?

 
 

Obama's policies to Israel will probably do it

izoneguy (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 10:00AM EST (link)

The longer Obama & Clinton keep playing the harp music to Iran the more nervous Israel gets. That will be the spark and the War on Terror will look like a garden party. Gird your loins.

The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.

Too right mate.

djemi (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 10:20AM EST (link)

Israel will do what is right by its poeple and if that means war then so be it.
We then have to ask ourselves what side of the divide we want to be on.

“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy

if we are not on Israel's side...

penguin2 (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 10:29AM EST (link)

I believe the American Jewish community would leave the Democratic party forever. But what a horrible way to learn the lesson.
In addition, we will have lost all credibility on the world stage with our allies-who may already see us wavering.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

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My fammily lives in the UK

djemi (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 10:39AM EST (link)

and I am getting the impression that the people over there are beginning see though BO and his C.R.A.P.

“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy

 
 
 
 
 

Wasn't the stock market kind of low on Thursday?

mom2oneson (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 12:25PM EST (link)

Why did he pick this past weekend to announce this. I was like omg when I saw that.

will dow drop below 7000 today?

djemi (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 1:05PM EST (link)

It’s down over 2% right now.
Now if the value of the economy drops and government budget stays at the same level doesn’t that mean that its % increases

“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy

 
 

Is there any way that these deficits WON'T result in either spiraling interest rates or spiraling inflation?

streetwise (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 1:16PM EST (link)

If there is, Francis, please tell me, because I’m feeling rather blue. I mean blue state.

Parsing words.

Steph C (Diary) Monday, February 23rd at 8:37PM EST (link)

Obama talks a good game about fiscal discipline but if you read what he said, he’snot talking about fiscal discipline. I didn’t catch much of what he said as it was a medical monday for me, doc visit, tests, all that sort of stuff but what he said about reducing the deficit didn’t apply to him. He specified “the deficit we inherited.”

In essence he was talking about the deficit Bush ran up, most of which was defense and war spending. So, if at the end of Obama’s first term he has reduced that by half, then he’s done what he said he was going to do. The fact that people are interpreting it differently from what he actually said, won’t matter one bit by then.

As much as I’d like to get you out of your blue funk, it’s not looking pretty, kimosabe. Best be prepared. I’m tired of living on the roller coaster of hope and change when you keep hoping the change isn’t going to be for the worse yet it always turns out that way in an inertia driven stomach displacing way.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
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