As of Sunday night, the US government, speaking through Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, has committed to guarantee the value of securities issued by the government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs), Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
That means that you, dear Taxpayer, are about to get into the housing business in a way you’ve probably never imagined and certainly didn’t choose.
So it’s worth asking a few questions about the business we’re all about to get into.
What does it mean to say that Freddie Mac is insolvent on a mark-to-market valuation basis? Exactly how much risk are the taxpayers going to be exposed to? Who owns the securities (or “agency debt”) issued by Fannie and Freddie, and how do they benefit from the bailout?
And most of all, what does it mean for people who want to buy houses in the future?
This update of a story that was originally written three days ago includes sections on market and Congressional reactions to the GSE bailout plan.
Keep reading…
Preventing Revolutions
Fannie and Freddie (the GSEs) are chartered by Congress to borrow money from the public, and then lend it to homebuyers in the form of mortgages, at a higher rate of interest. They’re supposed to make a nice profit from the interest-rate spread.
But Congress long ago gave the GSEs a line of credit from the Treasury (currently $2.25 billion, although Paulson just proposed to raise it). So there has always been a tacit assumption that agency liabilities would be guaranteed by the US government.
This makes for a very interesting business model. Because of the implicit Federal guarantee, agency debt is perceived as nearly free of credit risk. This makes it exceptionally attractive to investors, and interest rates on the paper are correspondingly low.
So the agencies have an artificially low cost of capital, compared to other lending institutions. Fannie and Freddie don’t make money because they’re particularly good at what they do. They make money only because people believe that the government has assumed the credit risk on their liabilities.
This significantly reduces the interest rates that people have to pay on their mortgages, which without the agencies would be quite a bit higher than they are today.
And that’s why Congress chartered these entities in the first place. Politicians have long understood that asset ownership keeps people from demanding radical social change. People who own houses and make mortgage payments tend not to participate in revolutions.
On Balance Sheet And Off
In addition to the direct mortgage lending that they engage in, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac also guarantee the payments on a much larger amount of mortgage debt. What kind of numbers are we talking about here?
There are maybe $12 trillion worth of home mortgages in force in the US today. Fannie and Freddie together own about $1.6 trillion of those mortgages, either directly or in the form or mortgage-backed securities.
To support those assets, they’ve issued liabilities in the form of coupon bonds and other debt sold directly to investors. And underneath those liabilities, the agencies have shareholder equity amounting to maybe $70 billion in all.
The agencies have also been major issuers of mortgage-backed securities, which are not carried on their balance sheets. These securities amount to a total of nearly $4 trillion. They’re based on mortgages that were underwritten by Fannie and Freddie, and conform to their strict standards. So the agencies guarantee the payments made by these securities, even if the underlying mortgages default, and they earn a fee for making the guarantee.
So all in, you’re looking at about $5 trillion in mortgages that are owned or guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie: nearly half of all US mortgages.
Ok, now let’s get out the back of an envelope and do some arithmetic.
Potential Losses
What if the sky falls and 10% of the agency-guaranteed mortgages go into foreclosure? (Remember, we’re talking about conforming, prime mortgages: the good stuff, not the subprime toxic waste.) Figure the recovered value from a foreclosure averages half the value of the original loan. That adds up to a potential loss of half of 10% of $5 trillion. Maybe $250 billion.
Does that number sound familiar? It should, because the contemplated maximum size of the mortgage bailout bill now working its way through Congress is $300 billion. So at least we’re all working off the back of the same envelope.
But Fannie and Freddie only have about $70 billion in equity capital between them. When mortgages default and they lose money, the first losses are taken by the equity. When the equity is wiped out, the agencies’ debt takes the hit. So if you want to not worry about them defaulting on their liabilities, you have to make up the gap between $70 billion and whatever you think their loan losses will be.
And that’s why Hank Paulson is talking about buying equity in Fannie and Freddie. It would be a matter of desperation for them to sell additional common stock in the open market now, with their stock prices at smelling distance from zero.
But who’s being protected by all this? Well, who owns the debt that’s been issued or guaranteed by the agencies to fund your mortgage?
The International Dimension
To a perhaps surprising extent, part of the answer is the central banks of China, Russia and Japan. “Official” holdings of US agency debt are said to total just under $1 trillion, but they are likely somewhat higher.
What the heck happened here?
What happened is that investors, including central banks, chose to treat the cash flows generated by American homeowners as reserve assets, a role typically played by securities issued directly by governments (that is, US Treasury debt).
These investors eagerly chose to invest in securities that paid a relatively high yield, because it was understood that the US government would assume their credit risk.
Turn this over in your mind a few more times. It’s quite remarkable.
Fannie and Freddie have been giving investors a free ride for years now. Investors benefit from the high yields paid by mortgages, without being exposed to the risk of default. You’d take this deal too, if you could.
This totally explains the rapid growth of Fannie and Freddie, who especially in the Nineties, went out and actively marketed themselves as a substitute for US Treasuries, which were in short supply because of the Federal budget surpluses.
And now these investors are demanding that the US make good on its implicit guarantee. In effect, they want to exit from their exposure to the US housing market, and replace it with exposure to the US dollar. They want their agency paper to behave like Treasury paper.
Does that sound like a windfall profit for the governments of China and Russia? Yes, it most certainly is. Their agency securities will now appreciate sharply in value until they nearly converge with the value of US Treasuries.
But they will still face the problem of holding securities that are denominated in dollars. They’ve replaced housing risk with dollar risk. And the dollar risk is real, because the taxpayer-funded bailout of any losses on agency-guaranteed mortgages will take the form of inflation.
Foreign central banks, particularly China, will prove entirely willing to take this risk. The Chinese appear to have recently decided to slow down this year’s sharp appreciation of renminbi, partly to slow down a flood of hot-money inflows. So they’ll continue to pile up dollar reserves as fast as ever. They’ll need a place to put those dollars.
And in addition, the fact that there is so much official ownership of agency debt makes it a matter of international diplomacy to propose anything which might impair their value. (For example, the otherwise perfectly reasonable idea of asking agency debtholders to take up to a 5% “haircut,” or reduction in principal value, to reflect roughly that much damage in the housing market.)
I suspect that this reality is part of why Secretary Paulson insists that the pain be borne exclusively by shareholders, not bondholders.
Congressional and Market Reactions
Financial markets originally had a positive reaction to the Paulson announcements, but they turned sour almost immediately. The interest-rate spread between agency and Treasury debt, which had tightened sharply on Friday with the rumors of a GSE bailout, started widening again on Monday and subsequent days this week.
Secretary Paulson himself came in for a tongue-lashing in Senate Finance Committee testimony on Tuesday. Fed Chairman Bernanke’s testimony was received with more politeness. But I can’t have been the only one who was struck by a sense that Bernanke is acting like a man with limited options.
Bernanke is walking on a knife edge. He’s trying to mitigate an ongoing credit crisis, with tools that are better suited for dealing with macroeconomic problems. He can’t cut interest rates any further because inflation is already roaring now. (Although this is more complicated than it looks, as the Fed has actually kept total money-supply growth muted through sterilization operations.) And he dares not raise rates because that would slam the brakes on the financial sector (which is in dire distress) and the economy as a whole.
Freddie Mac successfully executed a discount-bill raise on Monday and has another one scheduled for Friday. This wasn’t surprising. Fannie and Freddie are not in immediate danger. A rather remarkable steepening of the Treasury yield curve this week, however, suggests that people are starting to realize that high inflation is here to stay. We’ve also seen fresh signs this week that foreign central banks and sovereign investors are accelerating their diversification away from dollar assets.
Where do we go from here?
The net effect of Congress’ 40-year experiment in fostering home ownership has been a significant misallocation of economic resources. Think about it: whenever you make something (like mortgage risk) cheaper than it should be, people will buy more of it than they should.
And that crowds out investments that make more economic sense. I have a hunch that some smart economists will figure out that this is exactly why the US economy has been growing more slowly than it could have for so many years.
So what happens to homeownership now? We’ve been subsidizing it with an implicit government guarantee. Should we continue to do so, but with an explicit taxpayer-funded guarantee?
Or should we let the free market figure out the true value of US housing? (Undoubtedly a lot lower than it is now.) And should we end the deductibility of home mortgage interest?
Free-market orthodoxy suggests that we should, because otherwise we’ll continue to overallocate resources to housing, even now that events have proven this to be a bad idea. Efficient resource allocation is what free markets do best. But it’s also what scares politicians the most, because they can’t predict (or control) what free markets will do.
The mantra of many successive Administrations has been that America needs high rates of home ownership. For better or worse, we’re already hearing a very different point of view, expressed not only by Barack Obama but by some Republicans as well.
Obama says that “we need to put more money in people’s pockets, and ensure that housing is affordable and available.”
That’s actually very different from saying that “home ownership is the American Dream.”
The former implies a continued reliance on distorted incentives created by government. The latter activates the idea that if people work hard and smart, the economy will create affordable houses for them to buy.
We will all need to decide together which one of these competing visions is the way forward.
-Francis Cianfrocca
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
Nice.
Moe Lane (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 8:41AM EST (link)Very well done.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
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My (combined) wish list.
I don't see a recommend button
TheSophist (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 9:00AM EST (link)But seriously, you are one of the stars in the Redstate firmament, Francis. Truly cogent, clear explanations of rather complicated financial machinations, and the political impact of the same.
Thank you for this and all your other work.
-TS
“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.” – Ronald Reagan
Home ownership
Yil Tuesday, July 15th at 9:01AM EST (link)Let me see if I’m following you. GSEs “significantly reduces the interest rates that people have to pay on their mortgages, which without the agencies would be quite a bit higher than they are today.” Moreover they only do this for people who meet strict requirements. I don’t know if that includes this being a primary residence or not, but it should.
So in a pure free market we’d all be paying higher interest rates but haven’t for a long time? If loan/banking regulations hadn’t been eased (an R goal?) the sub-prime mess might have been avoided and this still wouldn’t be an issue because these loans wouldn’t have been granted in the first place? And to “fix” this problem you think it might cost up to $300 billion. That sounds like a lot but we just gave incentive checks/deductions to people totaling $150 billion that did almost nothing! In return for $300 billion now we significantly reduced mortgage payments to every homeowner and lowered rents for decades which must have stirred the economy by trillions! I’m really at a loss as to why this isn’t a good thing. Distort the market! I’m all for it!
If home ownership is a goal, why mess with the mortgage deduction which undeniably has helped people buy homes? If anything needs to be done, it’s to limit the size of this deduction so the government helps you buy a modest home for your area, but isn’t going to let you get out of paying taxes on some insanely oversized mansions.
Finally, I think you’re stretching a bit with Obama’s quote. I would think everyone agrees with his statement as written. Find me somebody who doesn’t think we need more money in people’s pockets (hey, that sounds like a tax cut!) or that housing shouldn’t be affordable and available! You’ve interpreted that to mean he’s supporting incentives that distort the market, but as I argued above GSE’s appear to have been a wonderful distortion potentially creating trillions of economic activity! Why again is that a bad thing?
Nice Post!
The_Fastest_Squirrel (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 9:02AM EST (link)I always learn a lot from you. Thanks!
Let me respond with an analogy
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 9:30AM EST (link)I’m taking a risk here because you might reject the analogy out of hand, but my aim is to capture the endpoint of a lot of dry, mathematical efficient-market analysis without having to actually lay it out.
How much fat food can you eat? It tastes great and it makes you feel good. Distort your body! I’m all for it!
You see my point? You really can’t distort markets without paying a price for it somewhere along the line. You’re saying that an up-to-$300 billion taxpayer bailout of large investors including foreign central banks is a small price to pay for expanded home ownership.
But what if my intuition is correct, and the misallocation of resources to housing (which is in the process of disintegrating) has caused us over all those years to forego more productive investments that could be creating jobs and income today?
You make the statement “If home ownership is a goal…” I want to stop you right there. In purely economic terms, home ownership (or anything else) should only be a goal insofar as the cost is reasonable, relative to other potential uses for the resources.
But in political terms (and they are at least as compelling as the economic ones), home ownership is an objective that causes people to become invested in the stability of society as it exists today.
Is that worth the cost of a large economic distortion? You assume that the answer to this question is yes, and proceed from there. I’m not willing to let the question go so easily.
GOAL!
Yil Tuesday, July 15th at 10:05AM EST (link)I’m going to go with home ownership is a goal
The lengths to which government should go towards promoting it is the only issue.
Just a quick question. If we had run something like the GSE as a government owned and operated entity and raked in the profits over the years (since we are taking the risk anyway) would that have been a better situation and ultimately profitable even with this mess? I find it somewhat similar to educational loans. Why are we guaranteeing student loans and accepting all the risks while banks reap only the profits? If government is going to accept the risks for promoting something in the best interests of the country why are we letting private companies get rich off us?
Ah, but blackhedd, housing is a growth
streetwise (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 10:20AM EST (link)engine for other parts of the economy- furniture, fixtures, appliances, garden supplies, carpets, paint, lumber, concrete, construction trades, municipal infrastructure, etc.
And also movies, liquor and restaurants as escape routes from the burdens of home ownership, repair bills, property tax, annoying neighbors, etc. :>)
Seriously, I think part of the problem has to be that the prime sector of the market has been affected by speculation, not just on so grand a scale as the subprime.
Another factor is just human irresponsibility. Home ownership is a choice that requires budgeting income away from other choices. If one puts one’s money in a well-appointed kitchen, then one better plan on cooking in it instead of maxing credit cards on dining out. These choices require restraint, which is not one of our society’s outstanding virtues.
Great job on explaining the bailout, BTW.
I think there's a skew in how you think of "profits"
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 10:38AM EST (link)“Profit” by definition reflects the creation of economic value, or a return on successfully-invested resources. When there is profit, it’s axiomatically a good thing.
But to the government in a fiat-money system, “profit” is meaningless, since money is actually recorded as a liability, not an asset on the central bank’s balance sheet.
The government can’t actually create value. (It can foster the creation of value through its mix of policies.)
You suggest that if we want to subsidize homeownership because it’s a social good (and we subsidize student loans for the same reason), why not just let the government (actually the taxpayers) do it directly and cut out the middleman?
Well, here’s why: if you’re going to distort incentives, you have to give people a very good reason to do what would not otherwise be a rational choice.
If you want to expand home ownership, someone has to put up the money for the mortgages. The GSE model gives public investors a strong incentive to do that by underpricing the risk that people will default on their mortgages.
That underpricing is the bill that has now come due, and it will play out in a broad downward adjustment of all housing values.
The alternative of having the government simply do what FNM/FRE do today, would be equivalent to simply giving away taxpayer money to anyone who decided to buy a house. All that really accomplishes is to move moral hazard from one place to another.
But there’s no profit motive, so you have no global investors to put up the money for the mortgages in your model! That’s why it can’t work. And if you try to make it work, it’ll end up being far more costly in real terms than it’s worth.
Maybe a false assumption
JamesLBurns (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 10:55AM EST (link)I dispute whether the mortgage interest deduction or government subsidized interest rates actually impact home ownership rates in the long term. They certainly impact home prices and so altering them will impact home ownership rates in the short term. But in the long term supply and demand will cause housing prices to adjust until the buyers and sellers once again can come to agreement.
The International Dimension
Gerasim Tuesday, July 15th at 12:11PM EST (link)First, many thanks for another very insightful piece.
I wonder whether you could expand at all on why Secretary Paulson has so little leverage in asking bondholders to take a “haircut” in principal value.
Don’t China, Japan, and, to some extent, Russia, have an interest in seeing that the drop in American home values remains “orderly”?
You can dispute all you want but
The_Gadfly (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 12:34PM EST (link)I’ve never read an economic textbook which supports your dispute. The relevant point is that the government actions shift the position of the demand curve in such a way as to create an artificial demand for housing at a given price point. The interest deduction certainly does so directly. My landlord bought the house where I now reside precisely because she was making so much money she needed the tax break. Were it not for the tax break, she might not have bought the house. She still might have so she would be accumulating wealth in the asset of the house, but she might also have chose different investment vehicles. But because the government has its fingers on the investment trade-off balances, this became what is colloquially known as a “no brainer:” Buy the house because the government pays you free money for it.
Or as Francis indicated in the article, the politicians have made a political choice about how we make economic decisions. You can think the choice is a good one or a bad one, but it’s the politicians who made the choice, not the people buying the houses. You can think its a worthwhile investment, or a bad investment, but either way it’s the government tilting the investment. Free markets abhor government tilting the market. Of course, if you don’t think free markets are the proper objective of government, that’s not a problem. Me, I agree with Hayek and think it is a problem.
So you're saying that mortgage rates don't affect ownership rates
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 12:34PM EST (link)That’s a very interesting point. If that’s true, you’re saying that people want to live in a house, no matter what. If they can afford a big one, they’ll buy a big one. But if they can’t, they’ll buy a smaller one in preference to renting.
But interest rates strongly condition the affordability of a house. So if you stop subsidizing rates while holding the home ownership rate constant, you necessarily drop the value of the houses. (This adjustment of course is painful in the near term.) And over a long period of time, this will cause the housing stock to be replaced with smaller houses.
Did I understand you correctly?
FNM participated in subprime mortgages.
Old_Crow (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 1:50PM EST (link)Quite aggressively and they have plenty of toxic waste on their books. I believe your 10% default estimate is much lower than what they will experience. Nice write-up.
“Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm.” — James Madison
Pretty much
JamesLBurns (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 2:36PM EST (link)I think that’s right. There is a reason that 50 year old houses are generally 1200-1600 sf versus the 2500-3500 sf houses being built today. In a sense, we’re not so much subsidizing home ownership as we’re subsidizing square footage.
One minor point on your comment. You appear to be assuming that the person could rent the big house for the same cost as they could buy the small house. I doubt that’s the case. The big house is going to rent for something close to (and hopefully for the landlord slightly above) the cash flow requirement to pay the mortgage, taxes, insurance and maintenance.
In the end, I suspect that down payment requirements play a larger role in determining home ownership rates than interest rates and taxes. Rental prices for houses are not likely going to be materially different from the carrying cost of ownership. So what stops people from buying — the big check they have to write on day one.
I hope it doesn't happen.
Flagstaff (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 2:39PM EST (link)Eliminating the deductibility of existing home mortgages, that is. From a personal standpoint, that would leave me, and I assume many other homeowners, twisting in the wind because we behaved rationally; ie, we measured our home purchases against the tax situation as it existed at the time we bought.
If there indeed has been a housing bubble caused by mortgage deductibility, to pop the bubble would seem to be the worst possible solution.
Again, personally, I would favor a grandfathering of deductibility for homes already under mortgage, and perhaps a gradual reduction of the deductible portion of mortgage interest over the years on new mortgages.
The whole thing may not be free market, but why select homeowners (the people who in fact may contribute more than their share to the welfare of the country) as the first targets in the war for freER markets? There are plenty of other targets out there that could be hit with far less pain.
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964
Another hit blackie.
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 2:50PM EST (link)Just a couple of points.
There was an article several years ago in the Phoenix newspaper about the effect of interest rates on home buying. This was at the early part of the boom when rates had dropped like a rock. The bottom line from the article was that even though interest rates were down significantly over the past year, the average house payment had not changed and the home prices had gone up about 25%.
Last I checked
Raven (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 2:55PM EST (link)10% was on the high-end even for sub-prime mortgage defaults.
This is what seemed so insane to me. Everyone was panicking over 7-8% defaults nationwide.
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
Generally speaking he's correct.
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 3:26PM EST (link)First, home ownership rates are driven by bringing new first-time buyers into the market. Low rates won’t do that by themselves, only in combination with high LTV loans. FTHBs typically do have pools of cash from which to draw a significant (10%+) downpayment.
People buy homes just like they buy cars: “What’s the monthly payment?” They have a target range for their payment and will max out their house purchase at that payment.
Keep them coming
kowalski (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 5:27PM EST (link)Frank, you’re doing a tremendous job, and it’s making a difference because when I read articles like this I print them out and give them to people who understand the basics but don’t get the bigger picture and…
…it makes a difference that you write this way, as a straight-shooter, telling people like it is. Just today you managed to tell a couple of very nervous people that I know about a complex subject they didn’t fully understand, and that’s the essence of good explanation.
Thanks once again.
Defend Liberty — Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
The most important thing
kowalski (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 5:36PM EST (link)Is that even if people don’t agree with your assessment you explain the terminology accurately and give the dimensions of the problem from your perspective. Obviously there are going to be people who disagree with the dimensions of the problem and the perspective, but at least we all know what we’re talking about, to quote Robert Bork.
Defend Liberty — Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
The panic comes from the leverage
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 6:28PM EST (link)The GSEs operate with so much leverage that even a small loss on the loan portfolio is enough to wipe out their equity. I’ve estimates of 4% or even below.
It’s not impossible for them to operate with a small negative equity (that’s what the Treasury LoC is there for), but if we get anywhere near that level, people will start dumping their debt. And that’s a catastrophe. So the edge of real trouble is a lot closer than it looks in the rear view mirror.
If Old Crow is right and foreclosure rates really do go above 10%, well, all I can say is: “This isn’t the country I’ve known all these years.”
Good comment
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 6:37PM EST (link)I agree with you as regards where we go from here.
And for what it’s worth, Secretary Paulson has already singled out the people who will take the pain for the situation as it exists today: the equityholders.
As in the Bear Stearns situation, Paulson is always very anxious to avoid moral hazard (and avoid headlines like “the Wall Street fatcats make out like bandits again, while the rest of us pay for their mistakes”). And his target is almost always the shareholders, not the debtholders. (He’s right, by the way.)
Well, I hate to say this
Raven (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 6:55PM EST (link)But if You’re correct, a major depression may just be exactly what we need right now…
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
Very perceptive. Thanks.
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 7:36PM EST (link)n/t
Default rates...
mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, July 15th at 10:31PM EST (link)Unfortunately the media drops into “mortgagespeak” when they start talking about foreclosures.
Virtually every article written discusses “default rate” which is not he same as the actual rate of foreclosures. Technically, if you miss one payment you’re in default. In reality, you won’t be considered in the default stats until you’ve been formally issued a “notice of default” by your lender. The drill goes something like this, and while the timeline varies slightly from state to state, it doesn’t vary much:
Historically, roughly 75% of NODs are cured by the borrower. Today, something on the order of 50% are cured, although good numbers are difficult to come by. If I had to guess, I’d say about 50% of subprime defaults go to auction, probably 35% of Alt-As and 15% of the Primes. I also think those %s are increasing.
The time bomb here is Option ARMs. They are the double edged sword. Not only will the borrower’s payment go WAY up when they adjust (about $650 per $100,000 of mortgage principle) but the principle balance of the loan will be from 10% to 25% higher than when it was taken out. In a declining market, and most OA’s are in severely declining markets, the house is now worth anywhere from 50% to as little as 25% of the current loan balance. The current assumption of most folks in the mortgage business is that up to 75% of OAs will go into default (as opposed to 7-10% of subs) and about 75-80% of defaults will NOT be cured. OA defaults will start to hit late this year/early next.
Bottom line, actual foreclosures are currently running between 1.5-3% of the pools. Those %s are ging up and could hit 5%. Underlying assts (housing) of the pools is off from 20 to 30% depending on the geographic concentration of the pool. Pools with OAs will likely implode starting next year and watch Downey Savings, WaMu and Wachovia because they are servicing very large OA portfolios.