From an AP wire story, we hear that Senator Obama believes the US economy is in recession.
If you’re in business or you follow business, your response is likely to be “No [excrement], Sherlock.”
What frustrates me no end, however, are statements like these, which are being spun as His Highness’ “most definitive” statements yet on the economy:
“I have little doubt that we’ve moved into recession at this point, and the sooner we can get money into people’s pockets, the sooner that we can stabilize the housing market, and the sooner that we can send a message to the markets that we’re serious about creating an energy policy that will create greater energy efficiency over the next decade or so, I think the sooner we’re going to get our fundamentals right,” he said.
Keep reading…
When I hear the word “fundamentals,” I think of the textbook definition of the term: supply and demand. So is Obama telling that the true goal of his policies will be to get supply and demand right? Earth to Superman: markets do that just fine, all by themselves. In fact, the less you mess with them, the more they get the fundamentals right.
Or by “fundamentals,” does he actually mean something else entirely? We know, because he’s told us and because his entire professional experience (as a community organizer) backs it up, that he believes the most important thing to get right in the economy is to get a lot closer to income equality. Is that what he’s going for here, with these “most definitive” statements?
So now we know that Obama thinks the real problem is to get the fundamentals right, whatever that means. Let’s look at the three prescriptions he gives us by way of getting those fundamentals right:
First, he wants to “get more money into people’s pockets.” The easiest way to do that is to cut taxes. But we already know he intends to raise taxes. Therefore, he just told us that a lot more deficit spending is on the way. If you believe Obama will become President, now might be a very good time to dump your US Treasury securities, or at least stop buying any more. Because they’ll be falling in value if the Senator means what he says.
He also wants to send a message to the markets that there will be an energy policy ten years from now that will create “energy efficiency.” Message taken, Senator. And you and I know just how much a message about ten years from now matters today.
But let’s play along with His Highness for a moment. Exactly what does he mean by “energy efficiency”? That’s an awfully interesting thing to put into your list of top three economic policy objectives. Does he mean that we should use less energy than we do now? Or does he mean that we should pay less in real terms for the energy we do use?
These are objectives we’re talking about, not implementation strategies. Until he spells out in very clear detail exactly what he wants to see happen, we can’t even begin the discussion of how best to get there. The Senator is avoiding the issue, which is the exact opposite of leadership.
And finally, let’s talk about the third major policy objective in this “most definitive” statement yet on the economy: Obama wants to stabilize the housing market.
Who doesn’t? It’s the biggest wild card in the economy. Tell us exactly what you think the problem is, Senator, and tell us whose ox you’ll gore in order to solve it. Because someone’s going to be in pain, and the only thing you can do as a matter of policy is to shift the pain from where it would naturally go, to a less politically-favored target.
The housing market is a problem because it’s overvalued. I don’t want to talk to Senator Obama (a man with no deep understanding of markets or finance) about how we got to this point. I already have a lot of knowledge about that, and more knowledge is still getting written as we speak.
What I want to know from the Senator is where he wants to go from here.
Because there’s one, and only one, way to recover from asset overvaluation: the assets have to deflate. And since we’re talking about an asset base that’s a double-digit percentage of the total wealth held by Americans, deflating it will cause pain for everyone.
One approach is to free up the housing market to find its own level. This has the potential to be extraordinarily painful. It also has the potential to be quick.
Back in the Thirties, when housing values last crashed, the US was literally one-half of the global economy. When people’s wealth declined, there was nowhere to go to build it back up.
Now, however, we’re between a fourth and a fifth of the world economy, and except for Europe, the rest of the world is growing like crazy.
So if we have a major asset deflation in the US, the pain will be extreme but the recovery will be fast, because there is economic opportunity all over the world.
The other way to approach this is to “put more money in people’s pockets,” to use Obama’s terms. Depending on exactly what he means by that (and there’s no telling because he’s not saying), this could have the effect of locking an enormous amount of moral hazard and permanent government control into the economy. On a net basis, it could prevent the flow of productive resources to the parts of the world that are growing and which could provide the basis for a solid and fast US economic recovery.
So I have to say again that Senator Obama is frustrating the heck out of me. His idea of “most definitive statements” on economic policy are either empty platitudes, obfuscating lies, or a coverup for the fact that he has no clue what to do.
Senator Obama, if you really want to be taken seriously, step up and tell us what you really intend to do.
-Francis Cianfrocca
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
Check what a recession really is
labrat73 Sunday, July 13th at 12:37PM EST (link)It saddens me that a blogger on this site would fall for the media hype and Obama campaign spin. A recession is Two economic quarters of negative growth. The United States has so far enjoyed over 15 quarters of growth. This last quarter has smaller growth but it was still growth. This quarter that has just started and the next quarter would have to be negative growth quarters before you can claim recession. Don’t be a willing partner to the left’s talking points and ignore historic unemployement rates and economic growth. If Al Gore was ending his second term we would be flooded with news of the greatest economy ever. You state that: If you’re in business or you follow business, your response is likely to be “No [excrement], Sherlock.” I guess you neither are in business or follow the business news.
Blackhedd knows
Brenden_Arnoldus Sunday, July 13th at 1:09PM EST (link)You should read more of Blackhedd’s posts before assuming he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I agree that we aren’t in a recession yet, but his post seems more like a discussion of Obama’s policy statement than whether we’re in a recession or not.
I’m of the mindset that Obama is trying to hide from the issue. He personally knows nothing about the economy, but I’m sure his advisors have tried to push him in a direction based on his policies. Since his policy and the economy should never meet, we get unintelligible statements such as this.
Ok, now listen to me very carefully
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 1:12PM EST (link)To say that a recession is two successive quarters of negative growth is to quote a definition long promulgated by the National Bureau of Economic Research, a very fine group of people to be sure.
To say that you don’t have a recession until that specific metric occurs across the entire economy, is just about as meaningful as to say that the stock market is in bear territory because it’s down 20% from its peak, or that the DJIA just passed through 11,000.
In other words, it’s psychologically meaningful and not a whole lot more.
For nearly the entire period of the Bush Administration, from the depths of the 2002 recession (which measured very shallow) until today, US economic growth has been anemic and sub-par.
For you to say that it’s falling into left-wing spin for me to make that point, is to ignore that what the government does has relatively little effect on the progress of the economy.
It barely matters whether George Bush or Al Gore is in the White House. The fact of the matter is that we have weak economic growth in this country, and it’s getting worse now.
The main reason that we’re not seeing two consecutive quarters of lower output across the whole economy, is that much of the economy is exposed to overseas markets, which are growing very strongly.
What is a big problem, is that demand growth in the US is slow and getting slower, and employment growth is very, very weak.
I call that a recession, because it feels like one. You can call it growth if you really want to, because technically it is.
But don’t call it good.
As far as following the business news, that’s absolutely right. I follow the business news primarily as a contrary indicator. The reason I write here at RedState is to tell all of you what’s really happening.
You should check his creds
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 1:14PM EST (link)before you dis blackhedd. He knows of what he speaks.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
Housing...
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 1:42PM EST (link)My browser ate a long comment so I’ll try a short one…
Bottom line, a collapse in housing is significantly slower to turn around and much less responsive to federal “help” than markets like stocks because it is illiquid and the entry fee is relatively high and going up.
We’re in for a long and ugly ride in housing. Congress can’t do anything but make it worse and GWB looks like he’s positioned to help them.
"Feels like" a liberal term
labrat73 Sunday, July 13th at 1:59PM EST (link)Blackhedd, you know what a recession is but you think we are in one because it “feels like” we are. Why does it “feel like” we are a recession? Is it because the liberal media and Obama tell you we are? My railroad stocks are doing quite well. That is because things are being transported and those items are being transported because people are buying them. The last economic quarter had 3% growth. On the scale of the entire country’s economy that’s far from “anemic and sub-par” as you describe. If find it intersting that the media has been determined to paint how bad the economy is since the start of this long election cycle. Guess good news in Iraq will tend to change democratic talking points. It all boils down to consumer confidence. Tell the public that the economy is bad on a daily basis and they will start cutting back. While destroying a thriving economy tell the public that it’s the current admin’s fault (not their reporting). Chuck Schummer just successfully destroyed a bank with his comments of late. The “news” blamed it on the recession.
Blackhedd you said a mouthful
kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 2:02PM EST (link)If it FEELS like a recession, it is one.
One question I ask, why has growth been so slow in recent years? If it because, as I suspect, our corporate tax rates are some of the highest in the world? Are there other factors?
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Mortgage rates and Wachovia
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 2:03PM EST (link)Good points as usual.
I’m really curious to see what happens to mortgage rates this week. They’re very responsive to the spread between the 30-year agency (Fannie/Freddie) bond and the 10-year US Treasury, which hit an abnormal high this past week at well above 200 basis points. (The 10-year T itself whipsawed wildly, ending down but above its recent lows.)
But something happened on Friday that was superficially bizarre until you think it through: the agency spread contracted sharply at several points on Firday morning (both the senior and the subordinated, although at different times). The tightening corresponded roughly to the points when Fannie and Freddie equity was at its worst levels in the stock market.
The interpretation is that expectations for some kind of Federal intervention propelled the equities nearer to zero (which is probably their true value), and nudged the debt higher. There was also talk that more attractive agency bonds would reduce the bid for Treasuries themselves, which would contract the spread further.
With all that, I’d be seriously interested to see if mortgage rates start this week lower, and if they stay there.
Wachovia: I almost wrote a post about them last week. They have a new CEO, none other than Robert Steel. He’s not a commercial banker at all. He’s an I-banker (30 years at Goldman). More to the point, he’s wrapping up three years working for Hank Paulson as the Undersecretary of the Treasury.
Steel is the guy that masterminded the ill-fated “M-LEC” last fall that was supposed to allow Citibank and others to keep about $300 billion in structured investment vehicles off their balance sheets.
The times are a-changing in banking-land, that’s for sure.
That's a long post all by itself
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 2:06PM EST (link)Probably ought to write it.
Tax policy is a big part of the reason. We really need to cut business taxes, and eliminate taxes on goods for export. Instead, Obama wants to raise these taxes.
There are a lot of other reasons, too. Many are systemic and benign, which means you can’t change them, only react to them. The world is changing very rapidly.
Labrat73, it feels like a recession...
Francis Cianfrocca (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 2:13PM EST (link)…because all my customers are cutting back their spending sharply and slowing down their payments. That makes it harder for my businesses to hire more people, and it’s made the investment environment all but impossible.
We have some internal forecasting metrics based on the behavior of our clients across certain industries, and they’re all flashing danger, worse than in years. And no, they’re proprietary so I won’t tell you any more about them.
The only sectors that are getting any funding or growth are in export markets. Venture capital is dry as dust because all the exits are gone.
You can bleat all you want about how challenging times are being caused by left-wing media spin. That doesn’t make them any less real.
Without a goal---
Flagstaff (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 2:49PM EST (link)“Until he spells out in very clear detail exactly what he wants to see happen, we can’t even begin the discussion of how best to get there.”
That’s an important observation. It’s true for all of us, of course, but we do need to hold a candidate up to the scrutiny.
The “money in the pocket” thing, I believe, he has previously said will be another rebate of some kind.
The rest is all flummery.
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964
Labrat, what's it "feel" like to be a fool?
Achance (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 3:17PM EST (link)You should have spent some of your four hours here reading blackhedd’s stuff or if you can’t access it because your’re new and the change over, it might have been wise to keep your fingers quiet and listen awhile.
In Vino Veritas
To give labrat73
Flagstaff (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 3:32PM EST (link)some respect, he has a point (as do you).
Until the verifiable data confirm a recession, it isn’t a recession, even if it does feel like one to some people. If we didn’t have the media available to tell us that it’s a recession, what we’d “know” is that prices are higher, some jobs are being lost, and that higher oil costs are a big part of it.
Beyond the verifiable data, we have only anecdotal evidence (unless we have an business/economic forecasting team avilable, which lets us use the data as a base for educated projections) to set our sails by. So, here’s an anecdote.
My wife just drove from Flagstaff to Knoxville and back. Her story is that I-40 was full of the big rigs, both directions, and in fact that was the only thing that slowed her down. My story has always been that high levels of heavy truck traffic tend to coincide with a robust economy. Perhaps labrat’s railroad stocks do the same.
Not being in a position to follow these things systematically, I can only add them to my gut feeling about the economy. Right now, it’s that we’re in a slowdown wrapped within a recovery from 9/11, and that the unknowns surrounding the price of oil are having a tremendous effect on both the economy and our national psyche. Throw in the fact that we have two less-than-stellar candidates for President (and the fact that the people who nominated them don’t seem to notice it) there are plenty of uncertainties available to support a recession, but if so, it’s only just begun (which is too bad, because the stock market is in a full fledged pull-back already–it’ll only get worse for a while.)
I don’t know what the job creation and deletion figures are today. Widespread job losses would of course feed a recession. As a businessman, you’re probably taking measures to mitigate the damage if a serious recession comes to pass, as are many others. Too bad that those measures help make the prophecy come true.
Are we getting ready for a round of stagflation? Could be. In which case, true recession or not, it would be the worst of times again for a while, and that will seem like an eternity.
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964
More about housing.
Flagstaff (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 3:56PM EST (link)About Point 4 that is.
“Most current home owners are either upside down or have essentially no equity in their current home.”
I don’t believe that’s true, but even if it is, it only matters to the ones who are trying to sell, or who can’t make their payments. What percentage of total homeowners is that at any given time?
It may be true among highly mobile homeowners, however–the folks who move every few years because of job opportunities. They’ll be finding it harder to sell without realizing a loss, and that makes it harder for them to buy, even at lower prices.
This will continue to slow down the economy, too. We can only hope that Congress keeps its fingers out of the pie.
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964
OK, now listen to me very carefully
ElliotE5 (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 6:03PM EST (link)This would read better without vulgarities. I.e, ‘no kidding,’ instead of what is there.
It would also read better to say ‘the senator’s’ instead of ‘His Highness’.’
That having been said, we are (irregardless of statistical definition) in a very weak period of economic activity. Most people walking down an American street know that.
We as a nation are probably going to have to assume at minimum some of the asset side of the balance sheets at FNM and FRE.
The Countrywide saga is not yet over; nor has there been a resolution at WaMu or Wachovia.
The question is: how best to deal with a weakened economy, with falling home prices, with spiralling energy prices?
How to reasonably position an auto industry whose products don’t match up with consumer vehicle preferences?
There are no easy answers. However, it generally makes sense that drilling here will expand supply. Building refineries, same thing. Constructing nuclear plants a la France, more supply.
I think it is important to focus on those actions which will both a) accomplish the desired ends; and b) resonate with voters. Blue ones as well as Red State ones.
Incidentally, I found the Becker response to this post especially useful.
The problems in the housing market
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, July 13th at 6:53PM EST (link)are VERY regionalized. Phoenix is significantly worse off than Tucson which is worse off than Flagstaff (which is not a badmarket right now).
The bottom line is than in large swaths of the country, at least population wise, where price appreciation went crazy the market is totally out of whack. Not only did prices go off the charts but construction did too, leading to a major problem of oversuppy. Combine that with the fact that over the last number of years virtually nobody put any money down on a new home purchase. Hence, little or no equity.
As far as the idea that people still have equity, some do but they aren’t ones who are normally shopping for new homes.
The real problem, that nobody wants to deal with, is the fact that financing has been screwed down and has taken out major segments of previosly qualified buyers – I’m talking people with steller credit and vreifiable assets but not verifiable income. Combine fewer qualifiable buyers with inflated prices tight money and huge inventories and you’ve got where we are today and will be for the next decade.
You think Obama knows nothing about the economy?
kiki Monday, July 14th at 9:00AM EST (link)Obama knows very little of anything he claims to know. What people do not realize is that he has been groomed, and quite quickly I must say, by people (or thugs) such as Mayor Daley, Rev. Wright, etc.. Just to name a couple of Obama’s thug constituents. Anyone in the Chicago area knows this. Let’s face it, in his short (and I mean very short) career as a poiltician, can anyone explain the real truth of what he has accomplished? I mean truly and not just repeating what they have heard. Where’s the proof of ANY accomplishment? NO! Absolutely nothing that he has contributed to the people. Although he is a wonderful motivational speaker, that is not a qualification to become the leader of this country.
As a business owner, my personal experience is that the economy is flourishing as well as other business owners I know. Perhaps there are other business that may be struggling with what they believe to be a weak economy but many business owners tend to blame the “economy” for their failing businesses when in fact it is as simple as businesses making bad business decisions, thus blaming it on something or someone else. Much like the Democrats do.
Obama rebate
Common_Cents (Diary) Monday, July 14th at 3:34PM EST (link)Obama would mean a rebate to those who didn’t pay in the money in the first place.
Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from,
behind, the Back Nine.Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.