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	<title>Comments on: Court Ruling Is Inconsistent With Minnesota Tradition And Disenfranchises Thousands</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/</link>
	<description>Just another RedState: Conservative News and Community weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:38:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: naraht</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>naraht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/?p=3#comment-9</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that the total consistency that is being looked for isn&#039;t going to be true in most places. Are either Utah or Maryland significantly better than Minnesota in this regard? It seems like the main reason that we didn&#039;t have it in either of those two states is that the statewide votes are less likely to come down to the absentee ballots...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that the total consistency that is being looked for isn&#8217;t going to be true in most places. Are either Utah or Maryland significantly better than Minnesota in this regard? It seems like the main reason that we didn&#8217;t have it in either of those two states is that the statewide votes are less likely to come down to the absentee ballots&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: naraht</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>naraht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/?p=3#comment-8</guid>
		<description>With only about 400 votes to be counted, he needs to make up a 225 vote deficit, so he needs to win by about 320-80. While some of those ballots are from Coleman leaning areas of the state, some of the 400 have already said in court they voted for Franken. And even once they are opened, they could be votes for the third party candidate or even the Lizard People, neither of which helps Coleman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With only about 400 votes to be counted, he needs to make up a 225 vote deficit, so he needs to win by about 320-80. While some of those ballots are from Coleman leaning areas of the state, some of the 400 have already said in court they voted for Franken. And even once they are opened, they could be votes for the third party candidate or even the Lizard People, neither of which helps Coleman.</p>
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		<title>By: naraht</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>naraht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/?p=3#comment-7</guid>
		<description>What the ECC has provided is a set of rules for counting some specific still sealed ballots. Firstly, they can still change their rules and even accept some of Coleman&#039;s arguments before the count is done. After the count of those remaining ballots, the ECC will declare a winner. 

Either Coleman (or theoretically Franken if result of adding in those votes is a Coleman victory) can appeal to the Supreme Court of Minnesota. Should the SCoM overturn it, then the ECC (or theoretically an ECC composed of different people) has to look at things again and my guess is that no one gets seated until July.

If the SCoM agrees with the ECC, they can legally order Gov Pawlenty (R) to sign the document that agrees that the person determined by the ECC was elected Senator. If Pawlenty refuses, he can be Jailed until he does so, I believe. 

Once he gets that document, the Democrats will present him as the new Senator from Minnesota and I believe that the only way that the Republicans  could stop it is to fillibuster the attempt to seat him. I *really* doubt that the Republicans can keep all 41 members in a fillibuster. While someone like Graham or DeMint might be willilng to go all the way, I doubt someone like Lugar or the Maine sisters would back it.

Once he gets seated, I *seriously* doubt that any federal court would remove him, even the US Supreme court has said the Senate has control over its membership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the ECC has provided is a set of rules for counting some specific still sealed ballots. Firstly, they can still change their rules and even accept some of Coleman&#8217;s arguments before the count is done. After the count of those remaining ballots, the ECC will declare a winner. </p>
<p>Either Coleman (or theoretically Franken if result of adding in those votes is a Coleman victory) can appeal to the Supreme Court of Minnesota. Should the SCoM overturn it, then the ECC (or theoretically an ECC composed of different people) has to look at things again and my guess is that no one gets seated until July.</p>
<p>If the SCoM agrees with the ECC, they can legally order Gov Pawlenty (R) to sign the document that agrees that the person determined by the ECC was elected Senator. If Pawlenty refuses, he can be Jailed until he does so, I believe. </p>
<p>Once he gets that document, the Democrats will present him as the new Senator from Minnesota and I believe that the only way that the Republicans  could stop it is to fillibuster the attempt to seat him. I *really* doubt that the Republicans can keep all 41 members in a fillibuster. While someone like Graham or DeMint might be willilng to go all the way, I doubt someone like Lugar or the Maine sisters would back it.</p>
<p>Once he gets seated, I *seriously* doubt that any federal court would remove him, even the US Supreme court has said the Senate has control over its membership.</p>
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		<title>By: Rapunzel46</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Rapunzel46</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/?p=3#comment-6</guid>
		<description>take this to SCOTUS or will this in essense stop his candidacy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>take this to SCOTUS or will this in essense stop his candidacy?</p>
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		<title>By: Common_Cents</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Common_Cents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/?p=3#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Reps have a lot to learn from Dems about fighting politically until the end.  We cave in way too much of the time.   Coleman will give up when more reports of public opinion get thrown at him by the MSM saying &quot;everyone wants to move on&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reps have a lot to learn from Dems about fighting politically until the end.  We cave in way too much of the time.   Coleman will give up when more reports of public opinion get thrown at him by the MSM saying &#8220;everyone wants to move on&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Yil</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Yil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/?p=3#comment-4</guid>
		<description>You pose a variety of questions in your first paragraph and the short answer is yes, voters are treated differently all the time.  For instance, if you move around a lot the odds of your current info not matching your voter registration are pretty high and you will be forced to cast a provisional ballot often through no fault of your own.  Once that happens your vote will be scrutinized to a level others aren&#039;t and thus treated differently.  Remember Joe the Plumber?  I seem to remember that they spelled his name wrong in the voter database so he should have been forced to cast a provisional on election day.   Heck, I&#039;m not sure if the vote would actually count at all if that happened.  How do address that problem?  Either the law is absolute and everything must match exactly, or it&#039;s flexible and intent matters and people shouldn&#039;t be punished for errors they themselves may not have made.  I&#039;m in favor of the latter since it makes sense, but now you are treating voters differently based upon local decisions.  I say local because I&#039;m pretty sure he was allowed to cast a regular vote in the primary at least and thus is exhibit A in how not all votes/voters are treated equally.

From examples such as that I conclude that the standard you appear to be looking for is unobtainable.   I daresay any statewide election would fail to meet it.  During the recount a number of decisions were made and agreed to be the Coleman team.  In fact it was Coleman himself who was essentially against count-ever-vote when he repeatedly refused to have any of the improperly rejected absentee ballots counted at all until mandated to do so by the court.  Once behind he changed his tune about what should be counted and has been changing his mind any time he thinks it could help him.  The incompetence of Coleman&#039;s recount team cannot be understated.

I would also point out that problems with the voter registration system were addressable during the recount for absentee and/or provisional ballots by finding them and bringing them before the court.  In fact I thought that was part of the reason for taking the state to court in the first place.  The fact that Coleman&#039;s team managed to fail so often to present evidence that all 4 requirements for a vote to count for so many ballots is either incompetence on their part or problems with the ballot itself.  In fact they went so far as to present evidence that explicitly contradicted those requirements and begged the court to count them anyway.  What kind of legal argument is that?  Either way the unanimous court decisions would seem to indicate that it&#039;s pretty black and white about what was presented to the judges to rule on.

You didn&#039;t mention it explicitly but the 133 missing ballot issue gets brought up all the time by Coleman.  How exactly is NOT counting 133 voters who were clearly present on election day based upon the sign in sheets trying to count every vote?  Consistency again...  Give Franken credit.  He really did say keep counting every legal vote and never wavered even after he was ahead.

I&#039;m guessing this thing gets wrapped up next week as there is an insanely low chance that Coleman could win 85% or whatever of the new votes to be counted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You pose a variety of questions in your first paragraph and the short answer is yes, voters are treated differently all the time.  For instance, if you move around a lot the odds of your current info not matching your voter registration are pretty high and you will be forced to cast a provisional ballot often through no fault of your own.  Once that happens your vote will be scrutinized to a level others aren&#8217;t and thus treated differently.  Remember Joe the Plumber?  I seem to remember that they spelled his name wrong in the voter database so he should have been forced to cast a provisional on election day.   Heck, I&#8217;m not sure if the vote would actually count at all if that happened.  How do address that problem?  Either the law is absolute and everything must match exactly, or it&#8217;s flexible and intent matters and people shouldn&#8217;t be punished for errors they themselves may not have made.  I&#8217;m in favor of the latter since it makes sense, but now you are treating voters differently based upon local decisions.  I say local because I&#8217;m pretty sure he was allowed to cast a regular vote in the primary at least and thus is exhibit A in how not all votes/voters are treated equally.</p>
<p>From examples such as that I conclude that the standard you appear to be looking for is unobtainable.   I daresay any statewide election would fail to meet it.  During the recount a number of decisions were made and agreed to be the Coleman team.  In fact it was Coleman himself who was essentially against count-ever-vote when he repeatedly refused to have any of the improperly rejected absentee ballots counted at all until mandated to do so by the court.  Once behind he changed his tune about what should be counted and has been changing his mind any time he thinks it could help him.  The incompetence of Coleman&#8217;s recount team cannot be understated.</p>
<p>I would also point out that problems with the voter registration system were addressable during the recount for absentee and/or provisional ballots by finding them and bringing them before the court.  In fact I thought that was part of the reason for taking the state to court in the first place.  The fact that Coleman&#8217;s team managed to fail so often to present evidence that all 4 requirements for a vote to count for so many ballots is either incompetence on their part or problems with the ballot itself.  In fact they went so far as to present evidence that explicitly contradicted those requirements and begged the court to count them anyway.  What kind of legal argument is that?  Either way the unanimous court decisions would seem to indicate that it&#8217;s pretty black and white about what was presented to the judges to rule on.</p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t mention it explicitly but the 133 missing ballot issue gets brought up all the time by Coleman.  How exactly is NOT counting 133 voters who were clearly present on election day based upon the sign in sheets trying to count every vote?  Consistency again&#8230;  Give Franken credit.  He really did say keep counting every legal vote and never wavered even after he was ahead.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing this thing gets wrapped up next week as there is an insanely low chance that Coleman could win 85% or whatever of the new votes to be counted.</p>
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		<title>By: johnt</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>johnt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/?p=3#comment-3</guid>
		<description>be used to rectify this problem ?   This sounds something similar to Florida 2000.
If Franken is greased up and squeezes into the Senate, debased as that institution is already, we will have taken another step towards complete trivialization and self mockery of what was once upon a time a viable and honorable  republic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>be used to rectify this problem ?   This sounds something similar to Florida 2000.<br />
If Franken is greased up and squeezes into the Senate, debased as that institution is already, we will have taken another step towards complete trivialization and self mockery of what was once upon a time a viable and honorable  republic.</p>
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		<title>By: Swamp_Yankee</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/2009/04/01/court-ruling-is-inconsistent-with-minnesota-tradition-and-disenfranchises-thousands/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Swamp_Yankee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/ben_ginsberg/?p=3#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Never Surrender. This Senate seat is of vital importance to the Democratic process and the future of our Republic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never Surrender. This Senate seat is of vital importance to the Democratic process and the future of our Republic.</p>
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