Friday in August: One Last Veep Speculation Thread


Who They Should Pick, Who They Shouldn't Pick, and Who They Will Pick (Maybe)

Well, now that Barack Obama is calling the unlucky ones, we’re running out of time to do the last fun speculation thing prior to the election, and I still haven’t thrown up a post of significance about all this. So here goes.

On Obama’s side, it seemed clear from the beginning that he was going to bollix this choice. It tends to prove the old dictum that As hire As and Bs hire Cs – his roster of potential choices, if accurate, is just not that impressive. The Mark Warners of the world took themselves out of the running early on, and the second tier of Jim Webbs did it later – either not confident that Obama will win, or more likely, unwilling to play second fiddle to The One for the foreseeable future. Others, like Wes Clark, took themselves out of the running just by opening their mouths and forming the shapes of their thoughts.

So instead, you ended up with a list of also-rans and secondary characters: the marvelously entertaining gaffe machine Joe Biden, a constituency-lacking mediocre governor in Tim Kaine (who, as Erick notes, is probably out), an uninspiring Kathleen Sebelius, and a rejected by the netroots pro-war Evan Bayh. Out of these, I think Biden is the likeliest choice.

None of these individuals are game changers, and the only remaining potential one who would change the game is Hillary.

I don’t buy Ruffini’s argument that this is all one massive headfake, but honestly, it’d make the most political sense if you want to win. Obama would have to be prepared with 4,383+ fanatical followers to serve as his taste testers, of course. And they’d have to have their wills in order. And she’d still want to run again.

Of course, I think the most obvious choice for Obama is to follow the Dick Cheney path – no, not the old white guy who’s been around politics forever, but to pick the head of your Veep Committee. In this case, that would be none other than Caroline Kennedy.

Yes, of course it opens him up to the celebrity, inexperienced attacks even more than he already does. But Kennedy would be the best possible choice in my view, better even than HRC herself, to win back the older women who’ve gone to McCain since the primary. She’s fantastically telegenic. She was instrumental in persuading Ted Kennedy to back Obama, and has carved out a neat little niche – an attorney and a best-selling author, half political Oprah, half Princess Di. She’s reportedly going to be Obama’s Ambassador to the Court of St. James’s – I thought it was illegal to announce choices like these, but I think it’s basically unenforceable – which she’s more than qualified for. It’s a choice that would fit Obama’s message of HopeChange while also reinspiring all the old Democrats who still have a soft spot for JFK, all while not saddling him with a politician whose resume will dwarf the lead guy on stage.

Of course, the only other person I’ve heard say this is a good idea is Michael Moore. So it won’t happen. But it’d be smart.

On McCain’s side, the roster of potential choices was better at the beginning – but then they, too, decided to stand on the sideline. Bobby Jindal is absolutely justified in his position – he’s been on his new job for less than a year, and Louisiana needs him – but I still think McCain would’ve liked to pick him most of all. Sarah Palin has the same too-new problem, though I think in an election focused on Energy, she’d have been a great choice. Nobody even called Don Carcieri. Mike Huckabee made it clear that he wanted the job, but I don’t feel like he gives McCain what he needs in this election (Huck would’ve been the perfect Veep for someone like Rudy, not McCain), and he’d have pissed off a lot of folks. And Mark Sanford basically made it clear that he wasn’t interested in this job when he chose not to endorse anyone – though he’d still arguably be McCain’s best choice on paper.

The roster was thus minimized to a number of B-team candidates. Tom Ridge? Please – the man hasn’t been doing anything for years. If he was from Kansas, his name wouldn’t even be on the list. Jon Huntsman and Rob Portman would be out of left field. Tim Pawlenty? He’s a fine governor, but he’s the ultra-safe choice, and as exciting as a tub of vanilla yogurt. I’d like him more if he still had the mullet. The previous sentence can be applied to anyone or anything ever.

So we come down to it, and everyone’s talking about Joe Lieberman and Mitt Romney. The Romney talk still surprises me, even though Time’s Mark Halperin reports it’s already decided. Romney doesn’t give you anything you need. You can’t have him spend his money – you already opted into the federal limits. He removes the ability to attack Obama as out of touch with economic needs. He removes the ability to attack Obama as an inconsistent flip-flopper. And really, he does nothing to heal the wounds of the GOP primary – he only makes Mitt Romney supporters happy. He doesn’t make Fred Thompson supporters happy, he doesn’t make John McCain supporters happy, and he absolutely doesn’t make Mike Huckabee supporters happy.

And those aren’t the wounds that need healing anyway. McCain’s winning 87% of Republicans right now to 84% of Democrats for Obama – there’s no need to lock up the party line people, they’re already on board. Perhaps if you think Romney can speak on economic issues in the midwest, it’s an advantage – but isn’t Pawlenty’s blue collar/Sam’s Club message a better one for this campaign than Romney’s technocrat spiel?

The other reason I just can’t see Romney as the choice: it’d be so out of character for McCain. If there’s one thing we know about John McCain at this point, it’s how the man makes decisions: he is primarily motivated by his uniquely harsh sense of personal honor, loyalty to his friends to the point of destruction, and enduring flames of spite.

None of these traits would lead to Romney as a logical choice. McCain still views Romney as having wronged his honor during the campaign; his friends despise Romney personally beyond any of the other potential candidates; and there’s no sign his everlasting personal spite meter has diminished since the days of the campaign. I just think McCain wants to win or lose on his own terms, and Romney would not be that. It would be the choice of a typical Republican, not a maverick.

The maverick choice, yes, would be Lieberman. But he too has manifold issues. While more acceptable to some than other pro-choice selections, Lieberman would still blunt the attack on Obama’s infanticide position – which could very well be the defining issue of this election according to some analysts. Lieberman is a doctrinaire liberal on all issues but foreign policy; this equips him to be an excellent Secretary of State in a McCain administration, but not to be one step from the presidency. Yet I suspect he would still offend the base less than some choices, since he’s obviously not a successor candidate – he’s not going to run for president in four or eight years.

Lieberman is a swing for the fences approach, however. He’d be a better choice if McCain was running 8-10 points behind. But he’s not – so why mess up a good thing by picking someone who might make the base reconsider their support?

Yet just as with Obama, there’s another excellent potential choice who isn’t getting his due: Eric Cantor. I highly doubt Cantor is the pick – McCain has no strong personal connection with him, and Cantor has been focused on setting himself up to run for Speaker or Majority Leader should the Republicans retake the House in 4-6 years. But he would be an excellent choice on many levels. Eloquent and bright, he’s a hardworking fundraiser, a capable attack dog, and has a unique appeal as a Jewish Republican with Southern roots. He’s from a swing state (and arguably has a larger constituency there than the lame duck Kaine), but he also can reach out to Florida and Pennsylvania in unique ways. He’s young, but he’s been in office twice as long as Barack Obama. He’s a boy scout, clean of any scandal talk, and he’s very good on TV.

Cantor would satisfy the business community and conservatives, while also giving you more ammo to reach out to many of the same constituencies you would with a Lieberman pick. He’s more of an organizer than a wonk, and frankly, that’s what I think McCain needs in a running mate: a hard working party man who’ll be great on the stump.

We’ll all see soon enough, of course. Whoever it is, someone’s going to be disappointed. Just get ready for it, and get used to it – in the end, Veep choices end up counting for very little anyway.


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McCain and Romney

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 11:28AM EST (link)

you stated that McCain wouldn’t pick Romney because “he is primarily motivated by his uniquely harsh sense of personal honor, loyalty to his friends to the point of destruction, and enduring flames of spite.”

Your wrong here. McCain ultimately is very pragmatic and very much a reconciliator. Think Vietnam.

If you think Romney attacked his honor or whatever, then you must not remember 2004. If McCain has “enduring flames of spite” as you claim, nothing Romney ever did garnered his ire more than what the extreme evangelical community did to him in SC in 2004. The black baby rumors and all actually caused some of his team to defect from the Rspublican ranks.

And if he did have “enduring flames of spite” don’t you think he may get some joy out of dismissing the Huckabee conservatives who defeated him in 2004.

As you noted, Huckabee wanted the two spot, but hasn’t recieved zilch attention from McCain. Says something, doesn’t it.

Strange

Ben Domenech (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 11:32AM EST (link)

I don’t recall John McCain running for president in 2004.

At rhe end of the day,

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 11:37AM EST (link)

Romney gracefully bowed out and took one for the team, when he could of pulled a Hillary. McCain has shown gratitude in return.

If all you got is one typo, then my point must be true. If any enduring flames of spite exist, it is most likely towards the “agents of intolerance” that he has never liked and defeated him in 2000

 
 
 

I like Mark Sanford

ZootSuit (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 11:52AM EST (link)

But think the choice will be Tim Pawlenty.

By the way, I agree with everything you write here, Ben Domenech. Especially about Mitt Romney.

Also, and I know I am going to be tagged as a “Mitt Romney-hater” for saying this but it did come up and I cannot easily refute it; with all the talk about Hillary Clinton being in a better position for 2012 if Obama loses now; wouldn’t Mitt Romney be in a better position in 2012 if McCain loses?

Think about it. If there is one thing both his detractors and supporters agree on is that Romney is very ambitious for the Presidency (just like Clinton). If people are saying that the Clintons would sabotage Obama if they think it is in their best interest, what makes you think Romney wouldn’t sabotage McCain if he thinks it’s in his best interest?

Seriously.

Although, having said all that, I would find an Obama/Clinton vs. McCain/Romney race extremely interesting.

***** Unrepentant African-American nationalist, Unapologetic African-American conservative!

 

I like the Cantor idea

RedFox84 Friday, August 22nd at 12:04PM EST (link)

If simply because Obama will not be able to keep himself from attacking Cantor for having “dual loyalties.”

 

Pawlenty

Brandon (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:06PM EST (link)

It really should be Pawlenty. As we saw yesterday, Obama will try and paint McCain as out of touch, and adding Romney and his collection of homes will only reinforce that argument.

We need someone with blue collar appeal, like Pawlenty.

- Brandon
McCain 08

 

Plus Romney opens up

Brandon (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:15PM EST (link)

Flip flopping attacks, attacks saying he laid off workers.

- Brandon
McCain 08

Fundamentally

RJD (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:25PM EST (link)

The Republican Party and the Democrat Party are different. The Clinton’s can get away with sabotaging Obama in the hopes it will set HR up for 2012. It’s just politics.

But, if Romney tries something like that against McCain, the voters in the GOP will shun Romney in 2012. He won’t sniff the nomination.

Flip flopping like McCain and off-shore drilling

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:30PM EST (link)

Yeah that’s really killing McCain. I sure do hope McCain “flip flops” on ANWAR.

“Flip flopping” is so 2004. I’m glad Romney and McCain are moving to the right. I wish McCain would do more of it.

you might be happy with it

Brandon (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:33PM EST (link)

But it is a stick for Obama to hit McCain with. Moderates don’t like flip flops, they like consistency.

I don’t have a problem with Romney, I’m just saying, he really doesn’t ad much when compared with Pawlenty, who doesn’t open the campaign up to those attacks.

- Brandon
McCain 08

 
 
 
 

By your terms, Fred has to be in the mix

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:35PM EST (link)

OK, setting aside my personal feelings (YES FRED YES), it has a form of logic. The personal connection with McCain, excellent appeal to the base and actually the potential as a sidekick to have LARGE appeal to the dummies in the center who can be swayed by a good argument for unadulterated conservatism.

But then there’s the ‘Grumpy Old Men’ ticket problem.

At the the end of the day, I’m with Zoot, and I hope it’s Sanford – in spite of the downside which I acknowledge.

My guess – Pawlenty.

@@@@@@@@@@@

Inre the Dem pick, I’ve already spoken my piece on that (see diaries), and even at this late date, I fear that I might help scare Obama away from the one who would be the IDEAL pick – for us.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

 

What passes for serious political analysis:

hazard Friday, August 22nd at 12:35PM EST (link)

Romney would be a bad choice. You can’t believe those silly polls that suggest that Mitt helps in battle ground states and energizes a good portion of the base. You have to rely on more substative evidence like that “icky” feeling you get when you hear his name. You can’t explain it, but Romney just sucks and while it’s great that he’s working his a@# off for McCian, he’s just ummm well, not good. I have a better idea! Lets go with some unknown congressman with zero national exposure or prominenece. Or how about a Democrat? The independents will love that! Besides, the McCain campaign CAN’T pick Romney because that would suggest that Mitt does help the ticket and well, that would mean I don’t know what I’m talking about!

but isn't Pawlenty just a mirror of McCain....

Attack Mode (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:36PM EST (link)

what does he add to the ticket that McCain does not already possess? I really don’t know so please don’t take this the wrong way.

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

 
 

Moderates don't like flip flops, they like consistency.

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:37PM EST (link)

Then we should have this one in the bank. No one has changed his positions more than the Obamessiah.

I’m still waiting for the compilation ad that displays them at one time for all to see.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

I don't seem to remember

The_Rebel (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:40PM EST (link)

too many attacks against any recent vice presidential candidates for flip flopping. The attention is paid to the top of the ticket, not the veep. Even that defining moment in the vice presidential debate for Dan Quayle in 1988 couldn’t stop Bush from winning. Let’s not overstate the importance of the VP. History shows otherwise.

No, Romney will be better with a McCain win

Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:44PM EST (link)

Because he’d have the VP on his resume and likely have a McCain who will either be defeated or will resign.

If he does run for a second term and lose then mitt comes back in 2016 and says “You should’ve picked me four years ago instead of McCain.”

********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts

he adds

Brandon (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:48PM EST (link)

he adds executive experience as governor. He’s the safer choice IMO. Plus I think he adds Minnesota.

- Brandon
McCain 08

I think you are being facetious

Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 12:50PM EST (link)

and couldn’t agree with you more.

The main thrust of the main article seemed to create a set of conditions that presuppossed not choosing Romney by its constraints.

********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts

Shouldn't, Should, and Will

Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 1:01PM EST (link)

Shouldn’t:
Leibermann — putting a moderate Dem one heartbeat (of a 72 year old) from the Presidency.
Huckabee — could lose the election for him.
Fiorina — The most incompetent woman on the planet. Most of you know my biases with Carly. Would love to have her run against Boxer or Feinstein.
Jindal — Needs experience.
Portman — Man doesn’t have a job so we’ll make him VP? I don’t get it. Run for governor or Senator and help the GOP out that way then we’ll talk.
Cantor — Uhh.. okay … don’t get it.
Palin — If it wasn’t for the trooper scandal, she would be IT .. I mean seriously. Energy, female.
Ridge — While I could live with Ridge, a lot of others couldn’t.

Should:
Rice — Yeah, yeah, I know “mildly pro-choice,” but she has never said that she embraced Roe so there is room to work there. Still loved by conservatives despite the mildly pro-choice thing.
Hutchinson — Wish she were pro-life but she may be the only choice to capture the pro-women women who aren’t complete raging liberals (and there are a lot who would just like to see a woman get SOMETHING).
Romney — can’t raise for McCain but has lots of rich friends who can give to 527s … could take michigan from Dems which means game over .. will solidify LDS turnout in Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona and help keep those red.
Non-existant being known as pro-life, female governor not involved in a scandal currently — home run ..
Sanford — Forget what he wants, he’s a solid conservative tax cutter who can excite the base.
Pawlenty — I think he could swing MN and/or WI … they were VERY close in 2004.

Will:

With the polls drifting back his way a bit, I think he goes with Romney. Michigan is ripe for the taking and his rich friends can toss money to the 527s in unlimited amounts even if they can’t talk about it with Mitt.
Mitt’s fundraisers are a matter of public record and if Mitt is the VP choice then those names go on the call list for all the 527s and those guys can help Mitt out.

********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts

Speculate on this:

AT8FATES Friday, August 22nd at 1:22PM EST (link)

“McCain/Clinton – 08″ !

Good Luck and Roses.

-AT8FATES

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Prediction: Obama announces pick in the 3PM Eastern hour

Brian Simpson (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 1:44PM EST (link)

After Rush et al are done broadcasting. Gives em less time to bash the pick before the convention.


| My RedState archive |
Important principles may and must be inflexible. ~ Abraham Lincoln

Rice or Hutchison?

Ben Domenech (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 2:00PM EST (link)

Wow. Those would be phenomenally unwise. Rice has spent the last year dropping the ball on everything (she’s supposed to be a Russia expert, and every time she comes to a podium these days, she looks as if she’s about to break down in tears). KBH has a ridiculously light resume for being in DC as long as she has, is about to go back home to Texas (a state McCain will win easily anyway) and run for governor, is extremely wealthy (read: another elitist attack) and is hardened pro-choice.

I agree with you about Sanford, but McCain has made clear that he has no interest in the guy. He wasn’t even vetted.

As for Mitt’s dollars going to 527′s instead: yeah. Not gonna happen.

Why won't Mitt's dollars go to 527s?

Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 2:24PM EST (link)

Ben — Other than it would hurt your argument for Mitt, why don’t you think this will happen :-)

Not Mitt’s dollars per se, but those of his previous doners.

********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts

Hmm: I was wrong

Brian Simpson (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 3:07PM EST (link)

Could he possibly be setting us up for a semi prank tomorrow.

Like, showing up in Springfield with ALL of the possible Veep picks. That way he can stick to the line that the Veep will be with him a Springfield.

It also keeps his name atop the news cycle as people continue to wonder.


| My RedState archive |
Important principles may and must be inflexible. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 
 
 
 

Who Should They Pick?

Sean (SIConservative) (Diary) Friday, August 22nd at 4:57PM EST (link)

Unlike most pundits, I’d say that the candidates would be wisest to choose running mates who accentuate their selling points rather than fill gaps on their resume. As I wrote here some time ago, I think McCain’s best choice would be retired Gen. Peter Pace. In addition to solidifying the base, to the extent that a running mate can, Pace would lend additional military experience and help McCain to run the adults vs. children campaign that could be extremely effective against the wet-behind-the-ears Obama. A Virginia native, he could also help to deliver a few votes in a state that could be decided by just that.

Obama, running on a campaign of change, would do well to choose Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear. Beshear replaced corrupt Republican Gov. Ernie Fletcher and could be considered the poster boy for Obama’s “new politics”. He would also give the Democrats a segue into the South. While carrying Kentucky may still be a stretch, the pick could put the state in play, as well as helping Obama in other, closer, Southern states, as well as Ohio, where corruption has been a major issue of late.

Who shouldn’t they pick? Well, abortion’s the big issue, and if either one chooses a running mate who doesn’t toe his party’s line on the life issue, that could easily end the election.

Who will they pick?

Obama – Jim Webb

McCain – Jim DeMint