Comrade Obama, Hahvud, and Interest Based Bargaining


Whether it is his flaccid foreign policy, his constant attempts to curry favor by deprecating our Country, or his refusal to actually take a firm position on anything, Comrade Obama is being true to his makers: The Harvard School of Law.  It is ironclad dogma at Hahvud that any policy development or bargaining be based on identification of issues and commonalities rather than on taking firm positions on matters.  Hahvud calls this interest based bargaining and has developed an elaborate vocabulary for it that has crept into both business and government-speak.   There is also an elaborate system of ritual associated with any bargaining process, an understanding of which will explain some of the seemingly silly things this and other administrations do.  I’ll save you the $4 grand or so that Hahvud and MIT will charge you for the four day training on interest based bargaining and give you a crash course on IBB and the vocabulary of bargaining used by Comrade Obama and the elites.

Unlike Comrade Obama and his minions, I’ve actually bargained literally thousands of labor agreements.  I’ve been forced to try to use IBB by administrations that thought it was cool.  I’ve had unions try to coerce me into using it because it is so greatly to the union’s advantage.  I’ve taken Hahvud/MIT’s class and sent my staff and even my boss.  We saw it as a “know your enemy” course, Comrade Obama and his ilk see it as the revealed wisdom.  I will state categorically that IBB is only useful for a union-friendly government or management to work together with the union to make it look like they’re doing something while giving the union whatever it wants despite what the shareholders or taxpayers want.  It is simply a scam but it has penetrated the thinking of practically every business and government in the Country and is informing our foreign policy formulation today, a truly frightening thought.  Whenever you hear someone speak about identifying the stakeholders, identifying interests, identifying shared interests, finding concensus positions, getting buy-in from the stakeholders, and the like, you are listening to someone using the vocabulary of IBB – whether they know it or not.  Even the wildly popular “Getting to Yes” bargaining techniques aimed at business are just a deriviative of IBB, though some of that stuff is actually useful in pure commercial bargaining.

The unenlightened evil that Havud seeks to address is so-called positional bargaining, the kind of bargaining most of us would take for granted.  In positional bargaining whether you’re engaged in nuclear non-proliferation bargaining, collective bargaining, or trying to buy a house each party identifies its position and can take action ranging from complete acceptance of the other party’s position to staunch maintenance of its own position to any point between those extremes.  The watchwords in IBB are that you should never “become positional.”  Think about that for awhile.

Using IBB, parties to negotiations would hire someone familiar with IBB to jointly train each party’s negotiating team in the vocabulary and processes of IBB – that’s guaranteed and expensive work for anybody who’s had the training, and yes, I do have that certificate handy.  After getting to know each other as individuals, an important part of the process, and developing a shared process and vocabulary through training, the parties then separate to assess the interests they seek to serve in the upcoming negotiations.  An IBB’er would never crassly take a position such as “It is the United States’ postion that Iran should not have nuclear weapons” or “The US will guarantee the safety and sovereignty of the State of Israel.”  An IBB’er would say that “It is in the interest of the US and all the nations of the Middle East that there not be a nuclear threat to that region.”  See how that automatically establishes an equivalence between Iran and Israel?  This is, of course, completely in keeping with the “it’s not wrong, it’s just different” thinking of the elites about most anything except conservatives.  In the collective bargaining context as well, IBB establishes an equivalence between the management of the company or government’s desire to protect and enrich the shareholders or taxpayers and the union’s desire to protect and enrich its members.  This is why really stupid and expensive things get done in Blue states where the government and the union view themselves as partners.  Beware anyone who uses the word partner in government!  Then the parties come back together and exchange their views of the interests being served in the negotiations and try to achieve a consensus on shared interests from which they can develop an agreement that reflects those shared interests.  Throw in a dash of fairy dust and some unicorn farts and you can all live happily ever after.

So, when you see and hear Comrade Obama reaching out to talk with adversaries that reasonable people would conclude there is no basis for discussions, you are seeing him naively act on the IBB dogma that there are always some shared interests between parties and the only way to find those shared interests is to never be adversarial or become positional.  Thus, IBB, though cumbersome and expensive, will work where there really are some shared interests and where the parties have correctly identified their interests.  At the most elemental level whether one is dealing with an employer and a union or bargaining between two nations, there would seem to be a shared interest in survival and that both parties would accurately assess a threat to their survival.  However, history is replete with examples of companies and unions having destroyed themselves by sacrificing their future for a present benefit or of nations not accurately assessing that another nation posed an existential threat, see, e.g., “Peace in our time.”  It is a particularly common trait of leftwing elitists to not understand either the thinking or the power of anyone who does not accept their view of things.  I made a very good career out of left wing unions’ inability to accurately assess what the employer might do and deluding themselves about how much power they had to influence employer actions.  It was common enough and so much a part of the leftist dogma that I think it is a general rule in dealing with American leftists that they will not accurately assess their interests.  If I can figure that out, so can the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese, the NorKors, and any one of the entities out there who may not share the US’ interests.

It is one thing when a naive and inexperienced mayor or governor buys in on this stuff and hands the deed to his city or state to a union.  It’s only money and in the next election you toss him out and the next administration tries to get the money back.  It is quite another thing when a hopelessly naive and inexperienced POTUS’ has a worldview that casts his own nation and the most vile regimes in the World as equivalents in terms of interests.  Comrade Obama really does believe that Israel’s possession of nuclear weapons justifies Iran’s seeking nuclear weapons because in his worldview informed by Hahvud, they are at best equivalents and if you believe, as I do, that he is an open Communist, he would at heart believe that Israel is the evil in the Middle East and Iraq is merely struggling against Jewish and Colonialist oppression.  Be afraid!


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Sounds like a lot of the material that they taught back in my Student Government Association.

Xasteius (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 12:27PM EST (link)

Granted, I wasn’t on the receiving end of it; it was primarily for the RAs, but some of the seminars on ‘community building’ and ‘conflict resolution’ included similar principles.

Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!

The only poll that counts is the one at the ballot box.

I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be a Chance/Soros hybrid.

It's pervasive in academia and government.

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 12:34PM EST (link)

When I was still in government I routinely threatened to fire anyone who used words like customer, partner, stakeholder, buy-in, and consensus in my presence.

In Vino Veritas

Well Art, we stakeholders have reached a consensus,

The_Gadfly (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 1:55PM EST (link)

and you’ve got complete buy-in that we’ll need to partner with you on this. The only question you don’t seem to have answered is: How do we sell this to the customers who elected The Big 0 in the first place?

You're fired! Seriously, we just need to know

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 2:09PM EST (link)

what we’re dealing with and understand what is largely a coded vocabulary.

In Vino Veritas

I get that. Partly I figured you could use a laugh after writing that column,

The_Gadfly (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 2:37PM EST (link)

and partly I’m trying to figure out how to start deprogramming people who have been swilling the kool-aid. Most of my friends from college, who were generally reasonable people even 10 years ago (and the farthest left I’ve been politically was a SALT II proponent back in the 7th grade) have become Obamabots. I’m expected to show up at a Halloween party where one of them has already threatened to punch in my face when I responded to one of their asinine Obamabot comments.

Yeah, it is funny; I can speak it too. In fact,

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 2:51PM EST (link)

I’m fairly fluent in most Lefty bs-speak because I like to jab them with it. As to the fundamental question, I really don’t know how to address the true Kool-Aid addicts. I usually just avoid them. Other than a certain “peace of the water hole” in some of the nicer places, Juneau is almost completely segregated. Rs/conservatives have their hangouts and activities, Ds/liberals have theirs and rarely the twain do meet.

In Vino Veritas

 

To accomplish what you're proposing

bk (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 6:40AM EST (link)

don’t you first need to establish a vision statement?

Oh, I've endured "vision based" recruiting, bargaining

Achance (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 7:23AM EST (link)

and even missions and measures. Missions and measures are really fun with the vision based community. If you have real work to do, “vision based” is right in there with “reality base” for any connection with reality.

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 
 

That hurt.

Loren Heal (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 5:53PM EST (link)

In other words, 5.


Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.

 
 
 
 

One key sentence about left-wing elitists that could use highlighting

civil truth (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 1:01PM EST (link)

An excellent summary of IBB and its pitfalls and dangers.

The key sentence is this:

It is a particularly common trait of leftwing elitists to not understand either the thinking or the power of anyone who does not accept their view of things.

The corollary to this is that leftwing elitists also arrogantly believe that everyone else thinks like they do and share the same basic values

Hard-core Communists, of couse, know this is rubbish; they know perfectly well who are their enemies who don’t share their world-view and plot to destroy them.

But the more naive and idealist utopians think that the rest of the world is just like them and share the same basic interests – that the problem is lack of mutual understanding rather than a basic difference in world-view and values.

What is interesting is that Obama appears to have a foot in both camps, which creates as tentativeness that as you point out, our foreign enemies are exploiting – but is also gives a window of opportunity for us domestically to build up more opposition while Obama vacillates, before the competent Communists who have been his mentors are in a position to take charge of matters.

That is, so long as Obama is willing to try some IBB approaches to his domestic opponents, we have some space to buy time and regroup and perhaps even counterattack before the iron fist comes down unmistakably – so long as we don’t trade away our interests but only engage in a facade of negotiation to keep them going along fruitlessly.

Unfortuately, too many party leaders also buy in the IBB mindset and think it’s just business as usual with the Democrats, not seeing the Stalinists polishing their revolvers in the back room.

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

http://www.gmsplace.com/

I like some of the vocabulary because it is so soft

Achance (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 1:43PM EST (link)

and assuring. You can use the IBB vocabulary to disguise what you’re really doing, as in: “It is in your interest to accept my position so that maybe you’ll be able to survive.” In reality, there is almost no point in trying to point out what is in the other party’s interest; if they are deluded about their interests, they aren’t going to listen to you. They’ll more likely do just the opposite. A lefty’s capacity for self-deception is almost limitless. They almost never think about what you’ll do in response to their action or position because it is inconceivable to them that you’ll do anything but surrender to their enlightened position.

In Vino Veritas

Fundamentally, Art --

Loren Heal (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 5:56PM EST (link)

lefties don’t really understand consequences. They don’t think results matter, only intentions. They don’t think the punishment should fit the crime. They don’t believe in risk/reward, profit, or individual responsibility.

It’s why their way always fails.


Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.

Form over substance.

johnCV (Diary) Friday, October 2nd at 11:35PM EST (link)

It’s the common denominator of most every leftist program (war on poverty), principle (multi-culti, etc.), policy (clunkers), and politician (0bama).

The democrats are as solid as a chocolate Easter bunny.

 
 
 
 

Current issue of the American Spectator...

Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 2:59PM EST (link)

…has a feature article on the dangers of this “stakeholder” style of governing.

I attended a management workshop at Hahvahd some years back where one of the exercises was along these lines. It had to do with role playing a made-up issue involving the relocation or expansion of a port facility.

We were all assigned roles of the various “stakeholders” – the city & state governments, various commercial interests, and of course the labor unions and environmentalists. Each was assigned a different number of points based on, well, who knows what, but the exercise was to try to get all the stakeholders on board with Proposal X so a vote could be taken. There were various bargaining chits that could be throw around in side discussions to “persuade” the various groupd into backing the proposal.

Of course, none of the bargaining processes resulted in unanimity. What happens is, you wheel & deal until you reach some threshold of votes required for passage, call a vote, and throw the recalcitrant parties under the bus.

Recalcitrant parties know the game, so that induces them to go along.

Sound familiar?

The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.

Sounds like a Dilbert cartoon. nt

Xasteius (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 3:03PM EST (link)

Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!

The only poll that counts is the one at the ballot box.

I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be a Chance/Soros hybrid.

 

The bottom line of the Spectator article...

Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 3:18PM EST (link)

…is that this is precisely how things are run in Mexico, the EU & in Fascist Italy.

It’s an end run around democracy & representative government. The big competition is for a seat at the table, and there ends up being no one there to represent the consumer or the taxpayer.

Just interest groups.

The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.

There's Another Forgotten Man

revivefederalism (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 5:59AM EST (link)

the unemployed guy who would gladly work harder for less pay than the union thugs…

Art, is it legal to bring ravenously hungry unemployed guys to labor meetings? Our labor laws are a disaster and they’re still on track to get worse. Is some version of EFCA still set to emerge from the bowels of Congress?

I’ll also shamelessly plug the book, the Forgotten Man, by Amity Shlaes. I’d suggest reading it along with the temporally matched chapters of Liberal Facism as there is some overlap between key actors and events. History repeats itself, and Obama’s goons seem to be taking pages out of FDR’s playbook. Seriously, the NEA scandal stinks to high heaven in the same way as the Federal Arts Project, a part of the WPA did.

Hey, I like some of that Artists Project stuff.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 7:30AM EST (link)

Had my whole office decorated with WPA Artist’s Project posters about labor issues. It’s cool stuff if you like School of Soviet Realism.

I know the good stuff about unionization. I know the bad stuff about unionization. Frankly, in the public sector, were I a line level employee, I’d rather be union. Management is just too incompetent and political for your kids’ breakfast to depend on them. And I know the response is “well, don’t work in the public sector,’” but for lots of people, that is the only alternative.

In Vino Veritas

I especially like the posters

kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 8:39AM EST (link)

you could find in Russia, the USA, and Germany at the time. that all had some version of the idealized worker holding their tools and gazing stolidly into the sunrise.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 

I'm sure that looking at leftist art helped keep you vigilant.

revivefederalism (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 10:56AM EST (link)

If someone can’t negotiate desirable wages and job security on the free market, they’re going to want to be able to vote themselves more by any means possible. This is going to be a feature in any labor pool where the hypothetical median free market wage would be below the average free market wage.

Perhaps unions had a place in a time when factory conditions were truly unsafe and workers got no compensation for injuries sustained while working. The current legions of paper pushers are living higher on the hog than most people in the private sector. Given the shorter working hours, vacation time you’re actually allowed to take, student loan cancellation, job security, and the tax benefits of defined benefit pension plans, many risk averse people who aren’t corporate high fliers would rather be government employees.

With the recent downturn, Treasury, FDIC, SEC, NCUA, and the Federal Reserve have been flooded with applications from people who have been employed at major financial institutions. These people aren’t dumb. However disastrous their collective behavior, they have a keen sense of self-interest, and it’s indicating to them that short of playing with other people’s money, Uncle Sam is the best game in town. This clearly isn’t sustainable.

We do have a civil service for a reason. Can you imagine how unstable our governmental functions would be if every single government employee were a political appointee? Having dependable administration of our laws is valuable, but it isn’t of unlimited value. Government work can’t pay more on a risk-adjusted basis than work in the private sector, or else most people will have no incentive to do anything more than the bare minimum.

 
 
 
 
 

Recoed

aesthete (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 3:42PM EST (link)

IBB proponents annoy me to no end for several reasons, but probably the biggest sticking point for me is that, for it to work successfully, you must convince the opposing party that you are either acting in their best interests (essentially, that you’re their ally), or that you are a neutral observer (and not an opposing party), and that you are simply “stating the facts”, as it were. As you point out, that’s only tenable in situations where the two parties are not truly in opposition (e.g., US-Europe foreign and trade policy), because in that case, there is the chance that they can believe the claim that you are acting in their best interests. In essence, it’s very difficult to use IBB unless both side are willing to embrace it; otherwise, the party engaged in position-based bargaining will win almost by default.

Now that I think about it, many of Obama’s dealings as president have had this theme: whether you’re looking at his lacklustre tour of the Middle East and his speech in Egypt, or his initial attempts to seem “above the fray” on healthcare, to set himself up as a neutral observer. Obama has truly embraced IBB, leading to an interesting dichotomy between Obama’s IBB philosophy and his policy prescriptions.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

 

Is Havud paying Neville Chamberlain royalties?

David123 (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 6:48PM EST (link)

When dealing with evil this IBB is suicidal garbage.

David123

IBB = being a pussy cat - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, October 1st at 7:23PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 

This actually sounds like that interview with Brian F. on MSNBC the other day.

clowngirl (Diary) Friday, October 2nd at 8:29PM EST (link)

They kept trying to get the topic away from the criminality of ACORN and the need to defund it by pulling out the kitchen sink of companies that have vaguely “defrauded” the taxpayer. They kept saying instead of singling out ACORN why don’t we work together to crack down on ALL organizations that are defrauding taxpayers.

It was totally transparent, but does seem to reflect a habit of this sort of thinking.

Very insightful and informative as always Mr. Chance.

 

Want to have fun?

bking (Diary) Friday, October 2nd at 11:10PM EST (link)

And I’ve done this. Going along the lines of the Israel thing.

Sign up to Daily Kos or any liberal blog using Trashmail. Then proceed…

to be extremely polite and staunchly pro-Israel has the right to exist and defend itself. Simply saying that drives them UP A WALL. For two days straight the one time the top top diary (two seperate ones) were ones crying about a user because he was being so pro-Israeli. That user was me.

Time well spent. lol All I had to do was say “Israel has the right to exist and defend itself” in many different polite ways and the place went bananas. I even started doing it on unrelated diaries. Good times.

ht tp://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/

 

Art, how does this fit into the IBB picture?

bk (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 6:48AM EST (link)

In some recent speech, Obama said something to the effect of once Obamacare passes, unions can start negotiating for higher salaries instead of maintaining health care benefits. I don’t know whether the basis for that re recent negotiations is 5% true or 95% true, but it was clearly a signal to the unions that he’d be behind them 100% if they helped pass Obamacare and then immediately demanded huge pay increases to make up for their supposedly getting screwed by evil corporations under evil President Bush.

How does this fit into IBB vs traditional bargaining? I suppose he’s saying it’s a given that the corporation is evil and the union is good, so the corporations MUST give the unions whatever they demand just as soon as Obama gets what he wants.

OK, bk, it's 3 AM in Alaska, and there's no good explanation

Achance (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 7:18AM EST (link)

for my being up; took a nap on the sofa, got on this computer, still awake, and not particularly sober. So, the big damn deal in bargaining with unions for the last twenty years or so has been health insurance costs. If you’re a government or a company that actually thinks about this stuff, and not all do, you have some amount of money you’re willing to spend to keep them off the streets. You show them that money and then you tell them to tell you where they want to put it. The calculus is usually whether to put it in HI or wages.

Moving HI to the government/taxpayer’s dime takes HI out of the bargaining calculus; it’s just wages then, and that’s the whole idea. Doesn’t matter if it is scamming with IBB or traditional bargaining, ten percent on the personal services line is ten percent on the personal services line; doesn’t matter whether you paid it in wages or HI.

In Vino Veritas

The other thing it does eventually, is make the costs invisible.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 6:04PM EST (link)

Just like public employees NEVER think about all the benefit costs in their package; they just look at their on-check wages and want MORE. Last time I looked, my State’s average load was 39%, so an employee cost us 139% of his/her wage, some much more, e.g., cops.

So, with Gov’t. Healthcare and retirement, that’s next, you’re looking at about 40% of the compensation package “disappearing.” And, public employers are just shifting all that cost to taxpayers and businesses. That’s the real interest.

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 

The antithesis of IBB

Deskpilot (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 10:14AM EST (link)

was clearly Reagan and Gorbechov in Reykjavík. He came with a position and would accept nothing other than conformity. There was no negotiating, there was no appeasement, there was no bargaining. There was steeled determinationthat would eventually result in the peaceful destruction and collapse of the USSR.

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can still read it in English, You’re Welcome
Deskpilot, AM(H)1 (AW), USN (Ret)

 

Thanks for another lesson, AC.

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 10:42AM EST (link)

Allmost a golden rule is: … “dealing with American leftists that they will not accurately assess their interests. If I can figure that out, so can the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese, the NorKors, and any one of the entities out there who may not share the US’ interests.”

Also, I vote that every mention of BO’s “foreign policy” include the descriptor “flaccid.” I reco’ed your article based on that and only now had time to read the whole thing.

Hahvud and the collectivist dream – a strange brew.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 

Ah, you have nailed the essence of Barack Obama (D-Faculty Lounge)

streetwise (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 2:11PM EST (link)

although I don’t think he’s a Communist. Just a rather vain, empty suit.

I'm open to your assessment, street,

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, October 4th at 2:20PM EST (link)

but I have adopted the Chance stance, lately. I think he started out, as you hilariously allege D-Faculty Lounge LOL!, but then he brainwashed himself into actually believing in the tripe he blathered. If he’s not a true believing Communist, then apples don’t grow on apple trees.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 

Well, streetwise, I don't think he's the flinty-eyed apparatchnik

Achance (Diary) Monday, October 5th at 3:59AM EST (link)

version of a communist operative; he’s more the “clean and articulate” version that you can dress up and fool 52% of the electorate. There’s plenty of the flinty-eyed apparatchniks around him though.

In Vino Veritas