Below, watch instantly infamous video of Michael Steele’s odious remarks on Afghanistan.
Here is my own transcription, as best as my deaf ear could produce.
Well the McChrystal incident um, to me was very telling. And I think it’s a reflection of frustration that a lot of our military leaders have with this administration and their prosecution of the war in Afghanistan.
Keep in mind, again, [inadudible] our federal candidates, this was a war of Obama’s choosing. This is not, this was not something the United States had actively prosecuted or wanted to engage in. It was one of those, one of those areas on the total board of of foreign policy of the middle east, that you would be in the background, sort of shaping the, the changes that were necessary in Afghanistan, as opposed to directly engaging troops. But it was the President, who tried to be cute by half, by flipping the script, demonizing Iraq while saying the battle really should be in Afghanistan. Well if, if he’s such a student of history, has he not understood that, you know, that’s the one thing you don’t do is engage in a land war in Afghanistan. Alright? Because everyone who has tried over a thousand years of history has failed. And there are reasons for that. There are other ways to engage in Afghanistan that do not [indaudible]
So now, for, for our candidates whether they’re running for Congress or United States Senate, um, there is a whole text of resources available to them through our office, the RNC, through uh, congressional committee, the senatorial and congressional committees, and even some of the think tanks that help to frame those arguments, uh, so that, um you know, you you don’t get stuck on the, well, George Bush, you know … fill in the blank. And I think that that’s gonna be very helpful. [inaudible] you can shoot them down with the facts. It’s amazing what facts can do. You know? So .. but that’s our reality.
Disgraceful and embarrassingly inaccurate. What really stands out to me is that it seems Steele wasn’t merely trying to make the ridiculous case that this was Obama’s war, that nobody wants the war to be prosecuted, and that we can’t possibly win the war. No, he was also making the case that our candidates in 2010 should be saying this on the trail. That the RNC would be pushing this as a talking point!! That’s not just grossly misinformed, out of touch, and divorced from reality, it’s dangerously inept and incompetent.
Obama did not “choose” this war. This war was brought to our shores on September 11th, 2001. America is fighting the war in Afghanistan. We did so under President Bush, we continue to do so under President Obama. Where others have failed, America succeeds.
Afghanistan is not lost. And Iraq was not lost when Democrats cried defeat. But defending these comments, Mr. Chairman? That’s an unwinnable war.
Moe Lane
Steve Maley
KnightsofMalta
Dan Spencer
Dan McLaughlin
It's not Obama's war, but he did make choices....
Cheetah772 (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 8:34PM EST (link)I agree wholeheartedly that Obama did not choose this war. But let me say a few things, which I think most of us can agree on:
1.) While Obama did not choose this war, he DID make choices in HOW to manage the war in Afghanistan. So far, I feel his choices and management of the war suck big time. I honesty don’t think he makes a good Commander-in-Chief.
2.) I don’t think the war is lost in Afghanistan….yet. However, it’s my personal opinion that sending 30,000 more troops over there and loosening up the rules of engagement (if that’s what Petraeus is planning to do) aren’t really enough to turn the tide of war into our favor. It’s my feeling that one way or another way, Afghanistan will forge its own destiny, which may not be favorable to our interests. Afghanistan is not Iraq, and in a certain way, it was already a failed state, and it’s more likely it will remain a cesspool long after our troops finally leave that country. Politically, I have no real interest in having our troops stationed there indefinitely, whereas I have real interest in making sure Iraq remains our strategic ally. Nonetheless, I am of a firm opinion that the war must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of our ability, because as long there is a slim chance of turning around the tide over there, then it should be pursued vigorously.
3.) Even so, what Michael Steele said does not make politically sense. So, yes, I agree that he should be let go. However, who would replace him? I’m just wondering aloud here…
Daniel 2:20 And he [God] changeth the times and seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
We are fighting to vindicate Obama's campaign rhetoric
briangoettl (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 10:42PM EST (link)For the past eighteen months, I have been arguing that we are fighting a second war in Afghanistan to vindicate Barack Obama’s campaign rhetoric. In case my fellow conservatives have short memories, let me refresh them.
We won the first war in Afghanistan. We deposed the Taliban and established a democratically elected government. Then, we left the peace keeping to NATO. But, Barack Obama and the democrats needed a campaign issue, so they began arguing that we took our eye off the ball in Afghanistan when we went into Iraq. The rhetoric was complete bs, but apparently even some conservatives now believe it.
The Taliban did not attack the U.S., and Al-Queada is not in that country. Our troops should come home immediately because they are fighting an unwinnable war as defined by Obama, and are dying to vindicate his campaign rhetoric.
Unfortunately, Obama and the GOP leadership are in a pissing contest to see who can pretend to be stronger on national defense. It’s a contest where the losers have no say in the outcome.
General McChrystal and his staff probably figured this out, Europe certainly has. We are virtually going it alone over there. None of our allies, save the British, heeded Obama’s call to send more troops for his “surge”. One european government was actually toppled because of its support for Obama’s war. Several are bringing their troops home in the very near future.
Conservatives need to get in the game. If we started demanding that our troops come home, like Michael Steele did today, we could help save their lives. And, if the Taliban returned to power, and again posed a threat, we could simply return and kick their behinds all over again. It would cost far less money, and take far less time.
So we leave, they regroup and get stronger, and then we go back.
gekster (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 10:54PM EST (link)Great plan you have there.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
and to kowalski;
gekster (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:02PM EST (link)The claim that they forced us out, the many Afgahns who sided with us that will die, the week look we have to our allies and the rest of the world, showing we wont adhear to our commitments, etc. etc. etc.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
They had a decade last time, and it took us six weeks to kick their behinds
briangoettl (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:15PM EST (link)Gekster: The Taliban was in power for a decade before we went in the first time. It took about six weeks, and cost a couple dozen lives the last time we had to kick them out of power. We are going to be fighting and dying for another decade under the conservative’s plan. So which plan makes more sense?
We are fighting a war to vindicate Obama’s campaign rhetoric, The only people in the world who don’t seem to get this are ultra conservatives with their monolithic midset and the GOP leadership that thinks that they need to look tough on national defense issues.
Last time, they didn't think we would be coming for them.
gekster (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:19PM EST (link)The next time they know we will.
And claiming that they “beat” us the first time we garner more recruits.
And they will be better prepared.
If you don’t see that, well then….
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
Actually, he has a good point
aesthete (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:36PM EST (link)On that limited issue: if we wanted to, the Taliban would be no sweat to remove from overt power if it retook it in the wake of our withdrawal. There are other considerations, though (massive regional destabilization, India/Pakistan, etc).
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
So how many innocent Afgahn civilians do we let die in the wake of out retreat.
gekster (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:47PM EST (link)And it will be declared a retreat brought upon by thier strong resistence and Allah’s might and will.
How many are acceptible to you.
Not pickin, just asking.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
Honestly?
aesthete (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 12:14AM EST (link)I can accept heavy Afghan civilian losses. That may be cruel, but it’s going to happen anyways when we leave 1-5 years from now (we’d need at least 20, IMO, to achieve our current aim of a pluralistic/secular democracy that functions well and respects human rights, if it even happens). I’d prefer to have a crappy govt/system that can contain the loonies, even if it’s not democratic, than shamble around for a couple more years for the American people to tire of it, and make us pull out.
Given the political constraints, how many American lives would you feel comfortable sacrificing for the unattainable goal of Afghani democracy?
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
I'd love to live in a world
aesthete (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 12:20AM EST (link)Where establishing a democracy in Afghanistan is as easy as establishing one in Iraq. Various real-world constraints make that impossible. Therefore, I am for realistic appraisals and goals, or getting out and stopping the blood hemorrhage.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
I agree. Afghanistan is not Iraq.
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 5:58PM EST (link)But limiting the choices to “Full nationing building” or “Get the heck out of Dodge” are not the only ones.
Do we have to watch our soldiers die with their hands tied behind their backs to “free” the Afghanistan people to live under the corruption of the Karzai government? In a vast “rural” country with the population sparely dispersed over a very large territory?
Or do we pursue the genuine American interest of why went there in the first place, to drain the swamp of terrorists in safe havens/training camps?
I don’t think we have to build a “free” Afghanistan to pursue the genuine American interest. But neither can we leave. Certainly not in July 2011.
I agree
aesthete (Diary) Sunday, July 4th at 12:36AM EST (link)My preferred option is to redefine the mission in Afghanistan as “contain the bad guys and kill the bad guys we came in for (i.e., the Taliban)”. Civilian casualties and tragic are unfortunate, but they are also inevitable in warfare. The way we’re doing counter-insurgency now is like disassembling a house piece by piece to flush out termites, painstakingly putting it back together, and doing it all over again for the next termite invasion. That’s expensive, difficult, and dangerous to do, and we should be in the interests of reducing our own costs, not those of the Afghanis. Conventional and “dumb” weapons, a change in objective (from birthing a democracy to slaying Afghani terrorism and insurgency), and less restrictive ROE can achieve our goals in Afghanistan, and for much less than what it costs now.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
I want no loss of life, from either.
gekster (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 12:21AM EST (link)But you would accept “heavy Afgahn civilian losses”.
I feel sorry for you.
I hope you don’t mean it.
I remember Viet Nam after the pull out.
And the casualties of Cambodia after the fact.
Would you still say that if yo were an Afgahni?
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
I'm not only willing to accept heavy civilian casualties
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 1:12AM EST (link)I would demand that the RoE insure them. One of the reasons the conflict in Afghanistan is because we’re going out of our way to provide safe harbor to terrorists in civilian areas. (Incidentally that’s why there are terrorist attacks coming into Israel from Southern Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank)
Significant parts of Afghanistan – and all of the areas bordering Israel – should be free fire zones. Then they should be secured with US forces who should only be phased out when Afghan forces are capable of securing the area.
Your analogy to VN and Cambodia are stretched well beyond the breaking point. We left VN and then stripped the South VN of their ability to defend themselves which led to slaughter. Cambodia had a free reign with their people because there was no opposition force. See Stalin, Josef for the lesson Pol Pot learned so well.
The civilian casualties due to collateral damage is one thing.
gekster (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 1:23AM EST (link)Leaving and letting a bloodbath accur is quite another.
I believe the VN analogy is some what correct.
I am probably wrong with the Cambodia thing.
In either case, the lose of any innocent life is, well….
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
When "civilians" let terrorists live freely and use their neighborhoods
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 11:55AM EST (link)as operating bases they are not “innocent” and killing them isn’t “collateral damage” it’s tactically the right thing to do.
Islamists have been carrying on a state of war against those they consider infidels for over a thousand years. They only stop – pause – when the price gets too high, when they are facing a superior force willing to rain down hell on them. Our RoE have been wimpy since day one under GWB and they’ve gotten progressively worse since then.
The “war on terror” will continue until we demonstrate and they know that we are more than willing and able to wipe them from the face of the earth if they keep messing with us.
Two recent examples would be Germany and Japan, both of whom were making war on their neighbors since there was Germans or Japanese. The total destruction they reaped in WWII magically turned them into “peace loving nations”. While I’m not convinced that Islamists can ever be “peace loving”, I do believe we can buy a couple of hundred years of peaceful coexistence.
And the civilians who resist them being in the nieghborhood,
gekster (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 12:10PM EST (link)what would the terrorist do with them.
The locals say,
“We don’t want you in our nieghborhood. Please leave.”
And the terrorist will say,
“Ok, we will just go then. See you later “
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
They have three options.
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 1:00PM EST (link)Resist. Move. Die.
I’m perfectly fine with any of the above.
Let me be clear. When people declare war on us, and then make war on us, I don’t give a tinkers dam about them, their families, their “innocent civilians”, or their dogs and cats. Well, maybe the dogs.
I will give you an example from Iraq. When the contractors bodies were hung burning from the bridge in Fallujah, had it been my decision, I would have pulled back US troops, sealed the city and dropped a fuel-air bomb on it. And then napalmed the remains.
Yes, I can see your point.
gekster (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 4:07PM EST (link)And lets just leave it at that.
Instead, lets remember the most holy of days for America and Americans
the 4th of July.
I hope you and yours have a safe and fun 4th,
and that goes for everyone who apreciates being an American,
and for those who truly understand what that means.
Happy 4th to all.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
sacred holiday,
kyle8 (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 4:27PM EST (link)Gonna get together with several friends and their families.
Gonna burn the required steak offering
Gonna pour the required libations (down my throat)
Gonna talk about football, (only a few months away)
Gonna talk about Obama, (well if we don’t who will?)
Gonna pop a lot of fireworks. (and teach the young uns how to have fun) It’s tradition.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
5 and a 5
gekster (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 4:33PM EST (link)and another 5 just for good measure.
And please, be safe,
Watch out for the kids.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
"Democratic government" my sweet keister
aesthete (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:32PM EST (link)That place is an absolute mess, and will remain that way for the time being. We should either establish a clear, tenable objective (mine would be, “stop Afghanistan from being a net exporter of terrorism”), recognize that Afghanistan is not going to become a Jeffersonian democracy in the next 5 years, and proceed from there. As long as we don’t have an endgame for Afghanistan, we’re wasting lives and cash though, that’s for sure.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Fire Steele and 90% of Those Below Him
Ron Robinson (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 9:25PM EST (link)Take Coldwarrior’s advice and become a GOP committeeman in your county. As soon as we take over the party precinct by precinct and county by county, RNC Chairmen like Steele will be merely an embarrassing memory.
________________________________________
Ron Robinson
Chair, AD 49 Republican Central Committee
California Republican Central Committee
PROCINCT Author/ Founder
The Precinct Project
Unified Patriots – How-To: Activists Taking Action!
Michael Steele Must Resign
partyof1 Friday, July 2nd at 9:26PM EST (link)about 6 months ago
Steele is a poster child for not using race as a criteria for important jobs. You don’t get the best person for the job, and if he screws up, you can’t remove him; or else you’re a racist.
Sound like anyone else you know?
It's not even worth debating
kowalski (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 9:26PM EST (link)It’s really not. The entirety of this statement even as a deaf ear could hear it is a travesty. I don’t care whether you’re a SoCon, DefCon, FiCon, RelCon or ConCon; an UltraConCon, GunCon, WealthCon (which is a wholly owned subsidiary of ConWealth), OilCon, MineralsCon, Pom-Pom-Waving UltraConCon, WreckCon, ShrekCon, JerkCon or AbsoluteBull***tcon, a NewCon or an OldCon, a HistoryCon or a HedonistCon, or even a NoCon, taken together this is the stupidest speech ever given by the Chair of the RNC. It’s a Big Zero.
As someone who supported Michael Steele in his Senate bid in Maryland, I can only say this: Wow was I wrong.
This speech reeks of something worse than amateurism. It’s amateurish, of course in everything it says, but to deliver it now, this way….
He wrote it, he crafted it, he said it, he planned it and it’s BUH-BYE.
It is illustrative, though, that he apparently thought it would go over well. That’s important. He wouldn’t have given the speech unless he thought that it would be received well. Doesn’t matter.
As someone who supported him I take full responsibility for helping to kick him out. GO! NOW! OUT! THE! DOOR! MICHAEL! STEELE!
Defend Liberty — Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
I mean, I have said some absolutely freakin' stupid stuff
kowalski (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 9:42PM EST (link)And I will probably say some absolutely freakin’ stupid stuff in the future.
But this …. this THING he said reminds me of a quote:
“That’s so stupid it isn’t even wrong.”
Defend Liberty — Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
Steele is right!
peterverkooijen Friday, July 2nd at 9:36PM EST (link)Why are clueless conservatives so eager to go down with the ship, when it was Obama who turned this irrelevant backwater into the main front of the war? What is Obama trying to achieve in Afghanistan? Nation-building? What is his objective?
Afghanistan only serves Obama’s domestic political goals. It will help him get reelected in 2012, as the president who got America out of a horrible quagmire against a Republican opposition that wanted to win at all costs.
Republicans are being set up! David Petraeus, Robert Gates and Hillary Clinton are put in place to take the fall. Why can’t you clueless conservatives see it?!
The daily kos is that way <----.
gekster (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 9:52PM EST (link)They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
Supporting the Afghan war = supporting Obama
peterverkooijen Friday, July 2nd at 10:13PM EST (link)GWB went into Afghanistan because Bin Laden and his camps were there. That is no longer the case. GWB rightly shifted focus to Iraq as the main front.
Obama took up Afghanistan as an opportunistic pet cause during the campaign, to sound tough against McCain. Explain to me, what are we trying to achieve in Afghanistan?
Why do you want us to line up behind president Obama?!
Obama in 2012 will be able to blame Republicans for the dead in Afghanistan and take credit for “bringing the troops home”. Obama is a very effective demagogue and you are playing right into his hands.
G'bye
Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 10:15PM EST (link)Been a while since I used any videos but you need them.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
A most excellent vid [nt]
Bill S (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:23PM EST (link)“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Wrong again homer,
gekster (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 10:16PM EST (link)like I said before, the daily kos is that way <—-.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
What is the deal with this
cactusjack Friday, July 2nd at 10:42PM EST (link)son of Lurch impersonates Robert Goulet?
This is the antidote.....
JamesonLewis3rd Friday, July 2nd at 11:04PM EST (link)…..for the worst YouTube video ever, past-present-future:
Hebrews 11:8
Jeremiah 33:3
I am not a clueless conservative and i do know
cactusjack Friday, July 2nd at 9:53PM EST (link)that Hillary is not a Republican and Gates stopped being a Republican or a conservative in my mind when he made that “I’m just not going to go there” statement about Jihadism at the time of the Fort Hood shootings hearings. That’s two out of your three. Obama just doesnt want to have the albatross around his neck of a lost war this far into his term, that he cant blame on anyone else (guess who?).
Lucky Star? Nicely Done.
Jake W (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 1:06PM EST (link)I love Gourmet Race, BTW. A lot of awesome videos based on it.
“I will not stand by and watch this great country destroy itself under mediocre leadership that drifts from one crisis to the next, eroding our national will and purpose.”
–Ronald Reagan
Jake Speaks.
Unlikely Voter.
My Facebook | My Flickr | My Twitter @Jake_W
Steele Partially Right
kipling (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 9:48PM EST (link)Steele and Republican candidates are right to point out that Mr. Obama declared Afghanistan the real war and accused Bush of ignoring that theater. They are also correct to point out that Mr. Obama is currently not winning the war in Afghanistan and his own indecision has led to fractions within the civil-military leadership designated to win the war and the peace that follows.
Steele however is not correct in his statement that Afghanistan was a war Obama choose to fight. He seems to want to make political hay out of the war much like the Democrats did in Iraq and that is unacceptable.
Another idiot remark by Steele.. FIRE HIM
Old_Crow (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 10:53PM EST (link)Steele is ruining Republican opportunities this November.
Gut him now, before he does more damage.
Is he an undercover democrat? He’s been helping them more than us.
He does damage to the Republicans on so many levels.
- expensive tastes are easily exploited by the dems.
- inarticulate delivery, cannot sum up Republican talking points with concise and clear delivery.
- out of touch with average Americans – again, plays to the dems.
- very poor fund raiser.
- no history of success – what has he ever done?
“Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm.” — James Madison
TBH, no one's had a vision or endgame
aesthete (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:41PM EST (link)much less a strategy, for “winning” in Afghanistan — not Republicans under GWB, and certainly not Democrats under Obama. I wish I could lay it all at Herr Obama’s feet, but them’s the facts.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Bush prioritized correctly and made the right big picture moves
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 1:16AM EST (link)Using the four quarters of a basketball game for the term of Bush’s Presidency as an analogy…
In the first quarter, immediately after 9/11, Bush made the only move he could make by invading Afghanistan for the requisite punch in the nose to the Taliban. The world needed to see that there was a price to pay for harboring terrorist training camps, and the Taliban.
In the second quarter, Bush invaded Iraq in the face of WMD intelligence, intelligence that was repeated on the Senate floor by the likes of Hillary Clinton. To me, it was the right move for the wrong reason. Once we were there, we deposed the dictator Saddam, and began the process of nation-building in a relatively well-educated country that’s also rich in oil reserves. In 25 years (or less), this move will be widely hailed as a significant humanitarian achievement.
In these second (and third) quarters, Afghanistan was the far lesser priority. It’s a poorly educated country that lives in a rocky, mountainous terrain. Not much strategic value there in and of itself, other than a presence to throw punches when necessary. And what more were we to do in Afghanistan in these 2nd and 3rd quarters when we were shooting “bricks” in Iraq? We struggled mightily in Iraq, but Bush perservered. Doing more in Afghanistan while Iraq was in doubt wasn’t a realistic option, IMO.
And then came the magnificiently executed surge in Bush’s fourth quarter. Petraeus was the star and Bush was the coach who stuck by his team. OK, Bush didn’t get around to focusing on the lesser war in Afghanistan. Or maybe, he got what he needed out of the Afghan effort for the level of investment he put into Afghanistan. We’ll never know because the situation on the ground never offered the opportunity to win decisively in Afghanistan, because we were focused on the more important Iraq. And obviously, Bush never announced that we were going home when the school bell rings in July 2011.
Again, don't disagree in the wide scope of things
aesthete (Diary) Sunday, July 4th at 12:37AM EST (link)I’ve come around to your opinion on Iraq, and it should be a national priority to limit nuclear proliferation. IMO, we should be working on a concerted effort with Israel and other regional partners threatened by Iranian hegemony to take military action against Iran, as well (Iran also has a decent opportunity to become a liberal democracy — Iraq’s not there yet, but it could get there, and could be another Lebanon, which would be a vast improvement on the status quo). Afghanistan, likewise, isn’t as important as Iraq — as a country whose main export to the world since at least the 80s has been terrorism and insurgency (they’ve been involved in the India-Pakistan, Chechen, Iranian, and Chinese terrorism, among others), it’s never going to function as a democracy. We should never have tried going in to set up a democracy, and really should have tried to simply establish a political order amenable to our goals of eradicating the Taliban and flushing out Al-Qaeda.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
foot in mouth syndrome
rdelbov Friday, July 2nd at 10:03PM EST (link)Steele is a handicap for the GOP–not sure what exactly his beliefs really are but once an RNC chairman does harm he needs to go.
An empty chair costs you no money and does no harm
And to think I wanted this guy as a Senator
Raven (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 10:34PM EST (link)Ugh.
The RNC will not get any of my money.
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
The difference between this particular comment and all of Steele's other doozies is
SoFiMil (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 10:34PM EST (link)at this even he was on friendly turf, in what appears to be a very relaxed, non-hostile atmosphere. All the other un-conservative things he’s said (that I know about) were on cable shows, where at best he was on neutral turf, and there was a “plausible” explanation that he was trying to “reach out” across the aisle, but just wasn’t articulate.
This time there’s absolutely no excuse..
www.suvstrategery.blogspot.com
What he actually meant was.....
JamesonLewis3rd Friday, July 2nd at 10:58PM EST (link)BHO is bored with Afghanistan and the USA should make the Afghanistan/Pakistan border a level playing field. It would be a great way to unload all the extra bombs we have laying about—we could invite the Russians to join in and they could unload all of their extra bombs, too. We could even make it a multi-lateral event and sing kumbayah and stuff!
The infamous terrain could become suitable for golf!
Hebrews 11:8
Jeremiah 33:3
Only conservatives seem to have bought Obama's campaing rhetoric
briangoettl (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:20PM EST (link)It’s astonishing to see ultra conservatives supporting Obama’s war in Afghanistan. Hey guys, go back and look at the news from say 2002-2005. We won in Afghanistan, then we left the peace keeping to NATO.
We are re-fighting the war to vindicate Obama’s campaign rhetoric. I mean, do you really think we can subjugate an indigenous people? Do you really think the Taliban poses a threat? Do you think Al-Queada is in that country? In February, 2009 Petraeus addmitted that Al-Queada leadership was not in that country.
It seems that the only people who have bought Obama’s rhetoric are the monolithic ultra conservatives, who, by their nature cannot think outside the box. Come on guys, you can do better than this. Bring our troops home now.
Your showing to be a Moby.
gekster (Diary) Friday, July 2nd at 11:28PM EST (link)Or are you a Paulite.
It’s got to be one or the other.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
Well gekster, there's always
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 1:14AM EST (link)brain dead jackass.
yes, there seems to be.
gekster (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 1:16AM EST (link)another nt
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
Nation building ........
holystone Saturday, July 3rd at 7:20AM EST (link)Afganistan needs a bully. In a nation of warlords that is ninety percent illiterate, democracy, which is dependent on some form of an educated electorate, will not survive and thus the success of the Taliban. Using Islam as its tool it bullied the warlords into compliance. That is the only effective form of government that we can expect to succeed. Once we kicked the Taliban out the warlords chose the weakest possible candidate, Kharzai, to pose as the leader of the country to appease the new “Taliban” on the block, the United States. This poseur provided them cover to keep their power in the local tribal areas. We want the “religion” of democracy to take hold and it will not. We are going to have to make a deal with a devil. Either a revised version of an Islamist dictator or a brutal warlord that can subdue the others. As distasteful as it may appear it is absolutely necessary to provide a stable government in Afghanistan to control the Pakistanis and the Iranians who want instability in the region for their own reasons. As much as General Petraeus may wish that he can repeat his success in Iraq of winning the hearts and minds of the people in a COIN operation, this population is massively less educated and sophisticated. We will probably spend another 10 years trying and in the end we will make a deal. One that says to the designated devil, you do the distasteful brutal work of bringing this population under control but we will be watching and the minute you begin to act in defiance of our regional and national interests you will be destroyed. Maybe in several generations, as occurred in Iraq under Sadam Hussein, the population will have enough time to mature and be ready for some form of representative government. I wish us luck. To date it has never been done.
You're right, holystone. Actually, we've already created an Islamic Republic,
avgjo (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 8:11AM EST (link)per the Constitution of Afghanistan, the second Article of which establishes Islam as the state religion, provides that no law contrary to Islam may stand and which limits the practice of other religions to the provisions of the law, which are clearly, per the same article, of Islam.
The Islamist dictator will come very shortly after we leave. And he’ll (yes, HE) use the Constitution as the basis for his strong theocracy.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
rephrase, we oversaw the creation of another Islamic Republic. n/t
avgjo (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 8:18AM EST (link)no coffee yet. sorry.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
I agree
aesthete (Diary) Sunday, July 4th at 12:40AM EST (link)Though I would prefer a secular dictator: he could probably hold together the Afghan National Army a lot better than a religious one, and might have less problems from an ethnic standpoint.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Source
avgjo (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 8:12AM EST (link)http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/APCITY/UNPAN015879.pdf
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
I'm ALL about party unity going into the fall...
reaganiterepublicanresistance Saturday, July 3rd at 11:16AM EST (link)- and preach it incessantly; but what’s up with his apologizing for being conservative? He needs to study the life and wisdom of The Gipper, man- you didn’t see HIM meekly apologizing for being right on every major issue of the day
Maybe that’s the worst part… Steele’s not a true believer AT ALL, maybe he’d have been a better fit in the Bush era.
He seems like a decent guy, really- but not focussed on what he should be, and we need a super-sharp guy in their who LOVES being a conservative, and wears that label proudly~
The Reaganite Republican
Is Steele out yet?
kyle8 (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 11:56AM EST (link)Someone told me he had resigned.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Over at Riehl's World
annas Saturday, July 3rd at 12:07PM EST (link)he makes a good point about Steele. Sometimes people “miss-speak.” If the Dems do it they just gloss over, forget it, and go on. If we do it, we start recriminations and eat our own. Are mistakes not allowed over here? It is not a good time to be changing leaders this close to election……
In case you (and Dan) haven't been paying attention...
Bill S (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 12:27PM EST (link)This is hardly the first “mistake” that Steele has made. Not by a long shot. We have been more than patient with Mr. Steele after his repeated gaffes, administrative screw ups and other missteps. It’s time for the RNC to cut their losses and get someone competent in leadership.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
My Thoughts...
cm12385 (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 2:32PM EST (link)I figured I should comment since I was in attendance, the feet in the lower left of the video.
I am by no means a fierce defender of Steele, although I did support him early on. I firmly agree that these statements where silly and I sat there scratching my head, but these were not previously prepard statements. This was in response to a question following his prepared remarks.
My thought after listening to this was that he very poorly articulated (as many of have seen him do before) what could have been a simple point to make. I think most of us here believe, as was said in a previous comment, that the US did not choose this war, it was brought to us by the Taliban on 09-11-2001. I think, at least as best as I ould tell, is that Steele was trying to say that Obama ‘chose’ this war over Iraq, as he constantly stated on the campaign trail that Iraq was wrong and Afghanistan should be our focus. I just think he very poorly articulated that point and ended up spinning it into this strange sounding statement that the US did not choose this war, etc, etc. I do not think the intent of this statement was meant to be quite as malignant as it came across as.
With the regards to not being able to win a land war in Afghanistan, I didn’t understand at all. We’ve been on the ground for a number of years now and casulties are much lower than other conflicts in our Nation’s history.
Long story short, I do not think, after watching these statements in person, that he meant to state that we do not belong in this war or it was not a war of our choosing. I just think it was very, very poorly articulated.
With regards to him resigning over this….. while I typically agree with Mr. Erickson (RedState is the only conservative site I visit on a regular basis), I do not think resigning now would accomplish much. November elections are only 4 months away, I do not think the turmoil in the party would be worth it. In addition, January 2011 is not that far off.
Chris
My distilled/simplified analysis after a few days of reflection
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Sunday, July 4th at 12:03PM EST (link)At the risk of oversimplification, let me group our options into three choices. From best to worst, IMO:
Obama’s stated course is #2 until July 2011, followed by #3. Let’s see, let’s try the most ambitious, then leave the Afghanis to fend for themselves in a year. I don’t think Obama will pull the trigger on #3, but how do I know?
Steele was clearly criticizing Obama’s choice of option 2, and by his choidce of words, sure seemed to imply that option 3 was Steele’s prescription, but for the sentence
But it sure came across as throwing the war effort/the troops under the bus to score some political points against Obama. At best, Steele’s the Guy Who Couldn’t Shoot Straight.
How to tell when Michael Steel is saying something stupid?....his lips are moving!!!!
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, July 3rd at 6:48PM EST (link)AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!
The Democrats elected an affirmative action President
Achance (Diary) Sunday, July 4th at 12:20PM EST (link)and we responded by appointing an affirmative action Party head. The root of this is the Party itself trying to position itself as just as cool as the Ds because we had a cool Black guy too. Steele has little in the way of qualification beyond having been a not very sucessful candidate. Well, all it takes to be a candidate is to put your name on a ballot and pay the filing fees or get a few signatatures. And, just as we’ve seen with Comrade Obama, managing a campaign really doesn’t give you much management experience.
That said, the Ds and their media running dogs would make a spectacularly ugly spectacle of Steele’s being fired, so as is so often the case with affirmative action hires, we’re stuck with him.
In Vino Veritas
We don't have to be stuck with Steele
texasgalt (Diary) Sunday, July 4th at 12:39PM EST (link)If he can’t be fired, he could do the right thing and resign. This afternoon would be a fine time- the media hype on a holiday Sunday afternoon would be greatly reduced.
There’s a good object lesson in the Steele mess. When hired help can get away with saying “fire me or shut-up” as he did a few months back, it is a sure thing the hired help will “act out” again. Managers of people, take note.
Affirmative Action is the truth. However, I say
Tbone (Diary) Sunday, July 4th at 12:42PM EST (link)fire the bum and let the media squeal. I think folks are sick and tired of being subjected to unqualified fools whether at the DMV, airport screeners or the White House.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.