Earlier today while checking up on teh twitter, I saw this tweet from Caleb Howe at 10:49 am Eastern:
Naturally I clicked the link to see just what Caleb was sharing. Upon doing so, in my Chrome browser, I was met with this:

[Click image for larger view]
Why would Google be marking BigGovernment.com as a page that has malware on it? I have never before received this warning from Google when going to BigGovernment. I suppose it is possible that BigGovernment did have malicious code on it. Of course, I would then also have to believe that in the following two hours BigGovernment isolated the malicious code and removed the code. Why? Well, how else would Google Chrome now be allowing you to go to BigGovernment.com without a warning? Is their product malfunctioning? Also, Safari uses the same system as Chrome for detecting malicious sites, why didn’t Safari give the same warning when I attempted to use it?
I think the the real reason is that Google didn’t like the bad publicity BigGovernment was putting out on their internet.
See, the article that was being flagged by Google Chrome was about Net Neutrality and the duplicitous stance that Google has taken as a proponent of the same. I assume this was the offending text that caused Chrome to flag this article as malware:
Last week, in a post on the official Google blog, the company’s senior vice president for product management, Jonathan Rosenberg, wrote that while Google’s “goal is to keep the Internet open,” it opposes the concept of “openness” where it would apply to its own search and ad products.
Ironically, the rationale behind Google’s opposition to “open internet” policy of this sort sounds remarkably similar to the rationale expressed by ISPs—which Google and other “open internet” advocates have targeted as the enemy in the current fight regarding FCC rules—for opposing net neutrality. According to Rosenberg, opening up Google’s code “would actually hurt users” and result in “reduced quality” for those who rely on the service in question.
That is an end result that net neutrality opponents say could equally well be assured by instituting that specific policy, though they allege that a key difference is that net-only neutrality would help, not hurt, Google, from a financial perspective. Broader openness, by contrast, would strike a major blow to Google—and open internet advocates and major voices in the tech sphere are now calling the company out for dressing up a public policy stance that appears to driven by a pure profit motive as philosophically principled and heartfelt.[Emphasis Added]
OUCH!
Now, I am not well versed on Net Neutrality. I have read the diaries produced by Neil here on RedState and some other blogs on the subject though, and I believe I know enough to see the hypocrisy and pettiness shown by Google in this debate.
All that said, I really think that this is a shame. I love the products that Google has produced, I use them everyday, but if they are making their products bias against dissent from their political beliefs that practice will soon end.
Aaron B. Gardner

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I've been using Bing.com
Mike (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 1:17PM EST (link)And it’s great. Seriously, it’s just as fast, and I’ve been getting noticeably better (more accurate) results. Especially when I search for stuff about Janet Napolitano
Me too.
Praying (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 2:09PM EST (link)I refuse to use Google anymore
No!!!11!1!!1!1! The Bilderbergers are coming
Totally agree.
Mayhem (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 2:42PM EST (link)I have completely converted over to Bing. Plus, they actually acknowledge all the patriotic and religious holidays, unlike Google.
James Madison, Jim DeMint, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan… You get the picture.
Yes, what Google does NOT do is very revealing (nt)
RedBeard Tuesday, December 29th at 3:12PM EST (link)Standard-bearer for grouchy curmudgeonry since, oh, 1975 or so.
I'm curious. Any other sites Google most "politely" advises (via chump advocacy) we not visit?/nt
Veronica (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 1:20PM EST (link)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wonder...
Duke Tuesday, December 29th at 1:23PM EST (link)is Google ‘too big to fail?’
Just this past week, in response to some of the things I’ve been reading about the politics of Google, I changed search engines all over to Bing.com and deleted the somewhat intrusive Google toolbar.
I hope they’ll continue to allow me to use their internet.
It’s not about a purge. It’s about an insurrection.
Other, non-politcal web-sites have been seeing the same page
BlueFalcon Tuesday, December 29th at 1:55PM EST (link)Including my favorite comic book website, which I can tell you is certainly no bastion of conservative activism. All of it is related to this statsistats.com, whatever that is.
After doing some digging...
BlueFalcon Tuesday, December 29th at 2:01PM EST (link)…it appears that sites that use Twitter for posting entries are sometimes having their links redirected through statsistats.com, which is a malware site. At least, that’s my understanding of it. BigGovernment is not the only one hit, and I can verify that Firefox also displays these warnings.
Why is google tied to firefox ?
oblio Tuesday, December 29th at 2:00PM EST (link)I tried to go to statsistats vis FF and got block due to my security settings, clicked on ‘Why was this site blocked’ button and was given a Google advisory page.
Because Mozilla is in bed with Google (nt)
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...which is why Google relies on Mozilla to make web browsers rather than competing with it?
Jeff Walden (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 12:20AM EST (link)Sorry, but that narrative never really held water except from the “curious coincidence” point of view. Chrome is the largest and clearest strike against the theory, but there are others, if you have the time and patience to look for them (which you might not, I can think of many things that are more fun and worthwhile to do
).
(Disclaimer: I work for Mozilla.)
Firefox, Chrome, Safari use the same bad-site lists from Google
Jeff Walden (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 12:41AM EST (link)Why is Google tied to Firefox? Simply put, they have the infrastructure to keep on top of malicious sites as they appear (the expected lifetime for the average phish is only a few hours, so this isn’t something you can just wish out of nothing), they publish the list using a protocol anyone can use, and the quality of the lists is sufficiently high that there isn’t reason to search for a provider that would give better results for sufficiently little extra cost. Chrome obviously would use it. Safari does as well for reasons similar to those of Mozilla (or so I assume). As far as I know, only Internet Explorer and Opera don’t use Google. IE doesn’t for obvious reasons (Microsoft is incredibly paranoid about relying on any third parties, so if they want something, they do it themselves or hire people to make it for them); I don’t know why Opera doesn’t, maybe they couldn’t negotiate something or got what they thought was a better deal elsewhere. (This sort of bad-site detection is at this point a required feature for any web browser that desires to be competitive in the marketplace, so foregoing offering the feature is not an option.)
You should get the same results from all three browsers — eventually. Since the bad-site lists are updated only periodically (I think maybe every half an hour or so, and that duration may vary between browsers or even browser versions), results in one browser may temporarily be more accurate than in another browser, but in a few hours they would even out.
Incidentally, if you want to disable this checking, open up Options from the Tools Menu (Preferences from the Firefox menu on Mac, Preferences from the Edit menu on Linux), select the Security panel, and uncheck the Block reported attack sites and Block reported web forgeries checkboxes.
Although it sounds like in this case, once we get past the initial knee-jerk reaction, there actually may have been a problem here that was merely coincidental with the Big Government post. It doesn’t appear blocked now, so the problem was fixed. Incidentally, Google’s had missteps before on this; for a period of a couple hours their blocklist once included example.com, a domain whose sole purpose is to be a placeholder domain for Internet documentation (as the site itself points out if you try to load it, with reference to an IETF RFC!) and which is in no way a malicious site. However, it generally works quite well.
It DID Have Malware On It
Tom_Holsinger Tuesday, December 29th at 2:09PM EST (link)Yesterday both Big Government and Breitbart set off alerts about malware by my Trend Micro Internet Security anti-virus program.
Like I said in the diary, I have never been warned before...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 2:17PM EST (link)and I visit BigGorvernment daily, multiple times in fact. I use Norton Internet Security, and it didn’t show any malware either.
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The problem is with redirection
BlueFalcon Tuesday, December 29th at 2:27PM EST (link)Biggovernment never hosted any malware to detect. Rather, some entries redirected through a malware site. Unless your AV product tests for “dirty” href’s, it won’t flag it. There may be an option in Norton to enable it, but I doubt it since Norton is notoriously terrible (made the switch to Kaspersky two years ago).
That still doesn't explain why Chrome never showed it before or since.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 2:38PM EST (link)And as far as Norton being notoriously terrible, well, I have never had a virus. Ever.
Of course I surf pretty safely.
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I said the same thing for my 5 years with Norton
BlueFalcon Tuesday, December 29th at 3:25PM EST (link)But when I installed Kaspersky, it dug up 4 pieces of malware I had no clue were on my system. This is even after a strict no-IE, no unsafe browsing policy I bragged to my friends about. As it turns out, one of my roommates had an infected PC that exploited holes in my Windows firewall to infect me, and neither Norton nor McAffee ever caught it. Since then I’ve sworn them off.
Why would you be using the Windows Firewall if you had NIS?
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 3:30PM EST (link)NIS is not just anti-virus.
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Alas, I had but the anti-virus package
BlueFalcon Tuesday, December 29th at 4:57PM EST (link)I falsely believed I didn’t need expensive software firewalls at the time because I had a rock-solid hardware firewall protecting my network. For everything else, there was Windows Firewall. What I didn’t know is that roommates on LimeWire behind the same router can render that completely moot, since Windows seemed perfectly happy to let ICMP packets through by default. Needless to say, I keep commercial software firewalls up on all of my home PC’s now and rigorously examine their settings.
But, I thought my system was perfect because my weekly deep scans showed no viruses.
Ah, I see BlueFalcon...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:00PM EST (link)I have the full suite. I don’t mess around.
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I got macs and never see this malware stuff
GregInFla (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 12:02AM EST (link)Life is good…
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Think about it.
– The sign outside the courthouse said no signs allowed. So I took it down.
– Atlas Shrugged is now on the non-fiction aisle at Amazon.
Is it malware at breitbart.tv
bk (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 2:35PM EST (link)that caused me to hear Sheila Jackson Lee say something about “brehaveral” tendencies here?
Embarrassing. Please read the warning.
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 3:23PM EST (link)Does Google really say anything bad about BigGovernment at all on that page? You posted the screenshot, you should read it. The warning refers to statistats.com, which is shown within biggovernment.com.
This is embarrassing. We just had that huge article about heightening the discourse yesterday, and today we get this technically illiterate persecution fantasy, with a bonus completely assumed motive by Google, which WILL be a source of more scorn and ridicule for our side. Rightly so, for it being on the front page. All based on imagined coincidental timing, a decision not to read the warning, and myopic browsing tendencies. This warning is neither new, nor restricted to BigGovernment.
You can learn what the warning ACTUALLY means, by reading this: http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://statsistats.com/&client=googlechrome&hl=en-US
The warning occurs on numerous other sites, BigGovernment is only one of them.. Not the first, not the last, not unique, and not idealogically based.
“Why would Google be marking BigGovernment.com as a page that has malware on it?” Because the underlying ad-serving domain, statsistats.com, HAS HAD malware on it.
Good grief.
So your proof that malware was on the site is that Google said malware was on the site.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 3:38PM EST (link)Open and shut. Well done.
/sarc
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Nope, you're right on that
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 4:27PM EST (link)I have no evidence that statsistats ever actually hosted malware. I should have said “Because the underlying ad-serving domain, statsistats.com, was reported to have had malware on it.” Less caps, more accuracy. My bad.
HOWEVER
I don’t really feel like I need to defend myself here. Your entire article’s proof is timing and distrust of Google. I think you’re the one with a heavier burden of proof, and I think you fail to make it. You are choosing to trust that a no-name website, hosted on Russian servers, was not the source of the alert as Google claimed, but that Google’s jihad for net neutrality caused them to warn against BigGovernment.com, and that they were willing to do the same to a bunch of other popular sites to get at them. I think that’s a ridiculous stance to take, with no real proof at all.
What has surfthechannel.com done to merit action in this net neutrality push? Do you understand my point here? Maybe I’m way off, but I don’t think this has anything to do with net neutrality.
Which, again, for the record, I am completely against.
What proof would you like me to provide? nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 4:33PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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It's funny how you think surfthechannel.com absolves them
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 4:36PM EST (link)The fact that they’ve also blocked other sites does not prove they don’t have a systemic bias in what they do block otherwise.
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It's called an example
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 5:02PM EST (link)I don’t remember all the sites that have the warning. I haven’t been preparing for this argument for the past two weeks. But it was not the only one.
What’s funny is how the insane claims in the original post apparently require no proof, but any disagreement does.
Original Post requires you to believe
- Google hates BG.com
- Google somehow knows BG article is forthcoming weeks ahead
- Uses statsistats as stooge for weeks to prepare battlefield against BG
- Warns visitors away from other sites in order to provide plausible deniability
All of this requires no proof other than Google’s net neutrality stance (which i disagree with)
Disagreement requires you to believe
- statsistats might have actually had malware
- BG was caught up in this for the same reason as a number of other sites
This requires proof
Once again, for Google to have done this deliberately, they would have had to have precognitive abilities or have been tipped off for weeks in advance. I think that’s a stance that requires serious proof. And I guess we’ll have ot just agree to disagree on where the burden lies here. My opinion is that the original claims in the article are pretty far out there.
This statement is so wrong it's not even wrong
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:09PM EST (link)I’d quote that line from some Adam Sandler movie but I dont’ like Adam Sandler movies and so never saw it.
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momac, you just don't understand how a story is told...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:18PM EST (link)Sometimes a writer will use events that happened which are coincidental with another event as the lead in to the meat of the story.
Sometimes they will use flare in their title, it’s called a “hook”.
Other than that, all I did was ask reasonable questions.
As far as the strawman conspiracy angle that you have latched onto…well, you assume many things that have to be true which really don’t.
1. “Google hate BG.com”
This was a title, a “hook”.
2. “Google somehow knows BG article is forthcoming weeks ahead”
Why assume that they needed foreknowledge of the article? Doesn’t Google crawl the actively crawl the internet?
3. “Uses statsistats as stooge for weeks to prepare battlefield against BG”
Why assume it was set up for BG.com. It is entirely plausible that the use of statsistats was just a matter opportunity and timing.
4. “Warns visitors away from other sites in order to provide plausible deniability
All of this requires no proof other than Google’s net neutrality stance ”
See point 3.
I don’t think you know how Google even works.
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Hey wait a minute, you're lying
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 4:10PM EST (link)It doesn’t say that “receiving content from statistats.com may harm your computer,” it says “VISITING THIS WEBSITE may harm your computer.”
Now apologize to Aaron for lashing out at him in error.
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Fair enough
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 4:35PM EST (link)And I suppose I can apologize for my tone, but I don’t think I’m lashing out.
But if part of a page on biggovernment.com is serving ads or stats tracking or cookies or whatever from statsistats.com, then just by visiting biggovernment.com you are receiving content from statsistats.com. So I don’t think that language means anything different than that.
I think the message is clear and accurate, and frankly I choose to believe the message rather than trust statsistats.com and chalk it up to a wide-ranging war for net-neutrality, with major pre-collateral damage on unrelated sites in the runup to the final attack on biggovernment.com. Somehow Google geared up for it, knew they’d be running an anti-net neutrality story and showing ocntent from statsistats, so Google got that going ahead of time to give them plausible deniability? I think that, as a position to believe, is insane.
Those warnings, with that domain (statsistats.com), have been going on for weeks. At other sites. The anti-Google article went up in the last day. So how did Google know ahead of time what BG was going to be writing about? Or are BG unjustly accused of displaying content from statsistats.com? I’m getting more and more curious what the actual belief in the order of events was hear, because it makes zero sense.
The message is entirely inaccurate
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 4:40PM EST (link)And I’ve still yet to see proof that broader claim is even true.
Because Google is secretive like that.
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Man, you used quote marks and STILL got it wrong
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 5:09PM EST (link)Here’s the entire thing, try and find your quote that proves I was ‘lying’. What a joke.
Here’s your quote:
“VISITING THIS WEBSITE may harm your computer.”
Here’s reality:
http://www.redstate.com/aarongardner/files/2009/12/google-biggovernment.jpg
I'm trying to find where I got the quote wrong
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:11PM EST (link)But I’m not seeing it.
It’s almost like you’re just playing stupid in order to give us some laughs.
Fess up, is that you, Leon?
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Wow momac, you aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer are you? nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:23PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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momac has a valid point here
Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 6:05PM EST (link)Even though it was expressed probably too harshly. After reading through everything posted, I’m thinking that it’s highly coincidental that Google flagged a page on biggovernment.com that criticized Google. Google could have just as easily flagged redstate.com in the same way if you happened to pull up a page here that had one of those malware ads that Erick mentioned in a frontpage post and Chrome noticed the malware. I’ve even gotten malware ads at foxnews.com before, but thankfully since I don’t use Windows, it didn’t do anything more than redirect my browser off to some bogus site.
There are enough valid reasons to criticize Google without flogging them for detecting third-party malware.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
The burden's on Google to prove it
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 6:11PM EST (link)Finrod, you’re asking us to give Google the benefit of the doubt. Why should we? Why do you?
Why do you work from the assumption that they are innocent, when they’re known to have an overt political bias (the corporation itself giving five figures against Prop. 8, for example).
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Because the evidence to my mind tilts that way.
Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 9:04PM EST (link)I’m not one to give Google any benefit of the doubt, but there are known issues with third-party sites being able to sneak malware in via ads, like I mentioned. To believe Aaron’s scenario, I have to believe that Google was aware of the biggovernment.com post and someone deliberately hacked their malware-detection code to flag it– which since it’s not repeatable, means that it would have to be random whether it blocks it or not, which would defeat their purpose of trying to shut down access to the site; or I can believe that biggovernment.com just like redstate.com has had issues with malware in ads, and Google’s malware detection picked up on that and flagged it for that purpose. One requires actual malice and effort and would be a crappy way to actually block anything, plus it would require them burying something in Chrome that they can activate remotely; the other is a natural outgrowth of automated malware detection. To me, Occam’s Razor points to the latter. I would think that if Google wanted something blocked, it would be blocked all the time and not 1 time in 20 or whatever the low percentage is.
There have been plenty of hostile articles written about Google out there on the Internet. If you can show me any kind of pattern of them being blocked by Google, then sure, I’ll believe that Google is putting in effort to block them. But a one-time occurrence like this? That’s much more likely to be a random coincidence, especially when other seemingly-innocent non-political sites are also ending up mysteriously blocked. I need more evidence than has been provided here before I can accept the “Google is maliciously blocking sites they don’t like” hypothesis. Do not ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, after all.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Finrod, what do you believe the point of this diary was?
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 9:27PM EST (link)I ask because I think you missed it, as did momac.
The whole point of this diary was Google’s duplicitous stance on Net Neutrality and the irony of that story being blocked by Google. The fact that we can only guess at why BG.com was blocked leads directly into the theme of the linked article at BG.com.
The irony is that if Google applied the rules it wants dictated on ISP’s, I could know beyond a shadow of a doubt why BG.com was blocked.
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Aaron, I want to let you that I'm not getting BG blocked on chrome
Richard Mullins (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 9:36PM EST (link)on my system but then again, I’m using an router/DSL modem(2Wire). I don’t doubt you but I’m not seeing the block or the malware. As for the Anti-virus I run is AVG 9.0 Free on Vista Ultimate 64. Maybe Google wants to play nice with AT&T, I don’t know.
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
Richard, thanks...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 9:40PM EST (link)But, it is not blocked for me anymore either. It was only doing that for a short time.
And let me say again, the blocking isn’t the real issue here. The issue is that Google will not open up their code, while they actively pursue legislation to force their competitors to do so.
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Google does that funny stuff a lot
Richard Mullins (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 9:58PM EST (link)and from time to time, I can gets some weird Trojan Horse stuff pop up after I use their website. Of course, it could be someone doesn’t like AVG. Anyways, Google has seemed to be a little hypocrisy over the years and not opening the code but then asking others to do what they won’t do. If you don’t want to open it up, stop advocating others to do so. At Microsoft isn’t being hypocritical when it doesn’t release there code because they aren’t asking others to open it up. Most people don’t like a Do as I say, Not as I do kind of attitude.
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
Well, gee, reading the article
Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 11:33PM EST (link)You spend the first two-thirds of the post talking about how Google has blocked biggovernment.com, then at the end you tie it into the whole net neutrality debate.
Either you think that Google deliberately blocked biggovernment.com, or you don’t. If you do, then my comments are completely relevant. If you don’t, then IMHO you’ve written a bad article, because you’re implying things that you don’t believe in an effort to discredit Google through something that isn’t a result of malicious action on their part.
You don’t need Google to open their code to find out if they’re doing something malicious; just look at the situation with Windows and DR DOS back in 1991– people were able to figure out with some digging that Microsoft was deliberately putting up a bogus error message in order to discredit DR DOS, without Microsoft ever opening their code. The handwaving you’re doing in your article only weakens the more general case against Google and net neutrality by introducing an irrelevant (though mildly amusing) distraction. If you’d written a paragraph or two about the blocking of biggovernment.com and made that the hook into a more substantial article about Google and net neutrality in general, that would be fine– but you didn’t; the proportions are the other way around.
That’s why I disapprove of your article and would disrecommend it if I could.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Trend Micro Identified the Malware at Big Government
Tom_Holsinger Wednesday, December 30th at 1:27AM EST (link)My Trend Micro anti-virus software identified the specific malware at Big Government, and it was the same malware it identified at Breitbart earlier in the day. I got to Breitbart by clicking on my bookmark of it. I got to Big Government by clicking on a link to a story there from another site. I don’t recall the site linking to the BG sttory – it might have been Lucianne.
I.e., it is highly likely that there was some malware at both sites, and the Google report about BG having malware was most likely correct at the time the report was written.
I mean there are examples right there
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 3:27PM EST (link)Laziness. Go to surfthechannel.com, or any of the other totally unrelated sites Google lists in the warning page. They have the same warning. 30 seconds and you could have saved yourself, this site, and this entire movement some embarrassment. 30 seconds.
How long did it take to write this, post screenshots, respond to comments, etc? Was it easier to assume than to read the details? This is nuts.
Momac, do you care to address Google's hypocritical stance on Net Neutrality...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 3:34PM EST (link)Or do you want to pick at me about the delivery method I used to share it?
This is a political blog, not a tech blog.
Think about that for a moment.
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Gee, looks like Aaron hit a sore spot
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 4:00PM EST (link)Why else would you be flailing like a maniac right now? Why be so defensive if there’s no story here?
This is clearly just another in a clear line of biased attacks on right wingers by Google. They make our stuff mysteriously unavailable on youtube, calling it spam. They deactivate our blogs on Blogger, calling it spam. And now they make our whole websites hard to access in Chrome.
Google is on a jihad against the right.
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Flailing and Defensive?
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 4:19PM EST (link)@Neil Both of my posts were up prior to any response to them, so I’m not sure at all what you mean by defensive. Besides which I think net neutrality is purest idiocy.
But if the point of the article is Google’s net neutrality stance, just make it about that. Make the points that can be legitimately made about it. Don’t make it about something that affects a number of other sites totally unrelated to BigGovernment. The headline is going to be what people see, not the underlying philosophical argument.
Which I AGREE WITH, by the way, I am just embarrassed that this is how the argument gets made. I don’t think, based on the comments, that the net neutrality in general is what is being discussed. I don’t think the headline will portray that that is your real point.
As a side note, corporations are amoral at best, whatever they might claim.. So I would expect nothing else from Google than to preserve their business, and to extract unfair advantage through legislation if possible. I totally, completely disagree with their stance. I think, as Glenn Reynolds put it, that the people who want to change a system that works should have a heavy burden of proof that their way will be better.
Spare us your embarrassment
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 4:35PM EST (link)Door’s over there if you don’t like to face the truth about Google.
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I really can't stand Google
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 4:39PM EST (link)But there’s no reason not to make honest arguments about their stances. I’m not embarrassed in the least. I just choose not to believe that Google can see into the future and prepare a cunning trap for an upcoming anti-Google BG article.
I suppose that ability is found somewhere in the same universe where I can be defensive _before_ I get a reply.
momac, I don't know how Google does their business...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 4:50PM EST (link)And I never will because they won’t open up their code or practices like they want the rest of the Net to do.
That is the point. You just don’t get it.
It is possible that statsistats.com was never even on BigGovernment. I don’t know, can you prove that it was? No you can’t. Only Google knows why BigGovernment got flagged today. And that’s how they intend to keep it.
As a side note, I looked up statsistats.com before I published this and apparently this “malware” that google claims to have found when crawling the web is fake. In other words, google flagged BigGovernment for having fake malicious code on it.
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Last note
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 5:28PM EST (link)“It is possible that statsistats.com was never even on BigGovernment. I don’t know, can you prove that it was?”
This is an example of why it _should_ have been difficult for you to make the leaps to attribute this attack to Google. But I suppose it’s a philosophical difference. I think it’s pretty nuts to chalk this up to that, without finding out yes BG did have it, no BG did not ever have it, etc. I think it’s a bold claim, I think it require a lot of proof, and it’s proof that wouldn’t have been hard to get. You can use something like ‘Live HTTP Headers’ in Firefox to see if anything gets requested from statsistats, or just ask someone at BG if any of their ads could have.
I think the simplest explanation is likely the correct one, that BG was affected by the same thing a number of other sites were affected by, even before the article. I suppose that might sound insane. And all the niggling peripheral points are distractions, in my opinion.
I’m really not as abrupt as I probably sound. I just don’t buy this premise at all. But that doesn’t mean I don’t get it. I am completely opposed to net neutrality. And I’d love to see it stay as it is now. But I just didn’t think this article served us well in pushing the fight.
Good luck guys, my comments are probably even less productive than I think this article is. But I still think this stuff could have been found out for certain, and dealt with in a manner free of assumptions of motive.
Later
Still waiting on you to prove I was dishonest as you implied momac. nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:32PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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Areyou calling Aaron dishonest?
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 4:52PM EST (link)If you’re saying we’re dishonest here at RS, you really should prove it, retract and apologize, or leave.
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Find where I called anyone dishonest
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 5:18PM EST (link)I said “there’s no reason not to make honest arguments” meaning there are plenty of arguments that can be made that don’t require such leaps as these. Such as strictly philosophical arguments. Google is totally wrong on the merits of net neutrality. I would prefer that was pointed out rather than this.
That was pointed out. You chose to ignore that part and focus on the lead.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:21PM EST (link)Try again.
And yes, you implied I was dishonest. I would like you to either prove, or retract and apologize.
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and now you're focusing on semantics
momac Tuesday, December 29th at 5:34PM EST (link)Nobody’s dishonest, the adjective ‘dishonest’ was never used, and the adjective ‘honest’ referred to the noun ‘arguments’. The sentence didn’t mention you, it spoke in generalities about how I’d like the argument to be made against net neutrality in general.
I don’t believe your arguments, and I don’t believe you’re that thin-skinned to think that requires a retraction as some matter of honor. And what’s worse is we probably agree on the actual philosophical issue wholeheartedly.
So now this is really my last bit on this subject, because it’s making it all worse to argue about these things. I agree with you on net neutrality, I disagree that the warning from Google was likely payback for their article.
momac, you are the one who decided to come in and attack me, don't play games at this point.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:44PM EST (link)You called my post an embarrassment, and you implied that I was dishonest in my argumentation. Those are facts. I didn’t search you out and ask you to comment here, you chose to. If you want to be seen as the guy calling me a liar, so be it.
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"no reason not to make honest arguments" implied....
penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:45PM EST (link)the poster was making a dishonest one, so it is not a question of semantics, but your view of Aaron and RS. Also, I’ll include the link to this comment by you, some serious implication on your part. Others are reading….
http://www.redstate.com/aarongardner/2009/12/29/google-hates-biggovernment/#comment-565
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I have to say that BigGovernment was awful yesterday at TYING UP my computer...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 3:58PM EST (link)to where I had to shut it down so perhaps that is malware I don’t know but it was a pain in the you know what! BTW I use bing too SCREW google!
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Interesting to know who is behind the attack on biggovernment.com? nt
Common_Cents (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 5:09PM EST (link)Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from,
behind, the Back Nine.Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.
My thoughts exactly
oblio Tuesday, December 29th at 6:40PM EST (link)Google (a known liberal operative) attacks a conservative site by placing malware on it through a third party. Damage done with no culpability. We are in a war and spies and saboteurs are everywhere.
Or google knowingly allowed itself to be used by lefty activists
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 6:42PM EST (link)I think that’s the most likely scenario: Unknown lefties attack sites through their ads, then turn around and use Google’s complaint systems to try to shut us down.
That’s the MO in Blogger and Youtube. Google allows it to happen because they approve, but they claim ‘algorithms’ are involved.
When it’s all human intervention.
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Well Google Crome isn't blocking Biggovernment.com on my system
Richard Mullins (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 6:26PM EST (link)but that might be due to my anti-virus software(AVG). I would get a screenshot of it but it might not be reflective of all things that google is doing.
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
And this Boys and Girls is why...
tsquare (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 6:30PM EST (link)I’m going to NOT upgrade to a Droid phone next month.
I’ll stick with the Blackberry
From anyone else, the coming Google phone would tempt me
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 6:43PM EST (link)But I’d no more use them than I’d watch CNN. I know they have an agenda, and it’s against me.
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What's the percentage in the Tech industry?
SteveLA (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 6:50PM EST (link)Neil,
Have you ever seen surveys from the Technology Industry on which way a majority of folks lean? I’d guess that by a very large margin Technology folks lean Left to Libertarian. I work in a subset of that industry, Defense, so most programmer/technology types I run into tend to lean Right.
You might be tilting at something that by the nature of the work force you are always going to be on the opposite side on most issues.
I’ve got no data to back the above supposition on, just wondered what your experience in the Tech Industry has been.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Well I'm mistrustful of a lot of polls
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 7:07PM EST (link)I suspect if you adjust for demographics there’s no change. This industry is just loaded with a lot of 20-something arrogant morons and overeducated idiots.
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I base my view on other than polls
SteveLA (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 7:14PM EST (link)Neil
Reading the usual crud and story comments on the Internet; Slash Dot and others, I get the sense that a large percentage of the Tech population is as you describe,
So your point that “they are out to get you”, probably has some traction, but it is the nature of the beast and those who build it, which is not going to be changing anytime soon.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
The programming industry is loaded with morons but ...
oblio Tuesday, December 29th at 7:41PM EST (link)hidden amongst the chaff are conservatives.
Hint: Look for Assembly language programmers, most young (and liberal) whippersnappers never heard of it, let alone know how to use it.
I suspect that the moron mainstream comes from programming being part engineering (conservative) and part art (liberal). Pretty much any idiot can program but the more vertical jobs require in depth engineering knowledge to make the bits fly.
5 on assembly
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 7:57PM EST (link)Been a while since I did any though: I wrote a little music player in 6502 assembly for the NES.
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w00t on my first 5 :)
oblio Tuesday, December 29th at 8:10PM EST (link)My current job is programming Z8 and Z8000 to control one of our ECM jamming pods. Some time ago I programmed the HCM-231 (Hughes Computing Machine bit/slice processor), otherwise known as the Radar Data Processor for the F-15 A/B/C/D.
Nice (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 8:44PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Neil, you programming on a 6502 might endear you to my uncle
Richard Mullins (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 9:03PM EST (link)Yes, my dad’s older brother was a programmer(I mean was because his any more) and has done some work Motorola’s 8 bit processors in Gas pumps when he worked for a company called AutoGas. Most of his programming stuff goes over my head but then again sometimes what dad told me in the stuff he when he still work as Medical Technologist. Oh well, that’s life. If you start talking about Airplanes I’ll really understand.
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
Congrats Aaron, your google post making waves....
penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, December 29th at 8:05PM EST (link)Not sure if that is quite the term, but sounds good.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/days-end-round-up/73853-days-end-roundup
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Jumping to conclusions?
jdkchem Wednesday, December 30th at 12:35AM EST (link)What most likely happened, and it is not the first time, is that enough libturd morons flood google with phishing/scam/attack site claims and google automagically blocked access. Somebody then comes along and emails google a wtf and a human looks at the site and calls bs and removes the block.
The panty-waste libturds have been doing this for more than a year now. They did the same crap to the American Spectator website in October of 2008.
Yup
Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 2:08AM EST (link)And google won’t lift a finger to fix the system. Which is why all the anti-Bush googlebombs stayed in effect, as well.
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Lib Organization
OccamsRazor (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 2:58AM EST (link)It’s been way more than a year. I lurked at the Greek blog for years before coming here (and lurking) and it was their MO to periodically instruct/remind newcomers to create those style of internet intrusions, such as overwhelming wikipedia. I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m merely trying to put into perspective what we’re up against.
I'm no techie, but... FYI
merryj1 Wednesday, December 30th at 6:30AM EST (link)Until a day or two following the “Big Sister is Watching” article on RedState, I was picking up tracking cookies on every visit to the site. I do understand that tracking cookies are a completely different breed of cat than malware, and these are described as “low threat level” by Norton Internet Security (which removes them with no problem). But perhaps due to some glitch in my own system, they do cause my computer to “freeze” and/or “hang,” which is why I started checking for the source(s) by cleaning my system, visiting ONLY a “suspect” site, then again running a full system scan.
The same or similar tracking cookies are/were also latching onto me at Big Gov. Now, I recently did a writing assignment on Behavioral Tracking (for a health communication pub), so I have decent familiarity with the tactic for advertising; and it is possible (but not necessarily probable) that these are of that type. If so, they don’t collect personal data; they tabulate types of sites visited for ad “targeting” so that, for example, if my computer surfs fashion sites, I’d likely get pop-up ads for chic clothing items, etc. But if these are from “Big Sis” on the other hand, my name has probably been run through FOID records or something.
Occam's Razor
Patrick Ruffini Wednesday, December 30th at 2:22PM EST (link)I have nothing to add beyond what Momac said above, but feel compelled to state that it doesn’t do RedState or any other conservative site any credit to front conspiracy theories that pay little heed to how the Internet and anti-spam systems actually work.
Full disclosure: I do consulting work for Google (opinions here my own), and have seen enough speculation about political motivation being behind things you may not like to merit a response.
As to my own experience with this, earlier yesterday I visited Tweetmeme and got the EXACT SAME Statsistats error flag in Chrome, suggesting this is a widespread issue with those embedding that bit of third party code on their sites. To cling to the belief that BigGovernment was somehow singled out is a pretty big leap.
Moreover, a few weeks ago, I tweeted a security error — retweeted by one of the contributors here — that appeared on the DNC’s contribution page that was flagged in Chrome and in no other browser.
http://twitter.com/presjpolk/status/6489656762
re: http://www.twitpic.com/sprqk
So, did we all suddenly leap to the conclusion that Google was out to get Obama and the DNC by depriving them of thousands of dollars in contributions, or was it simply a screwup by the DNC staff? Occam’s Razor.
Not long ago, a post was also frontpaged here claiming Google was suppressing the climategate scandal in the suggestions that appear when you type in the main search box. This was also debunked by a commenter pretty quickly (http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2009/12/03/google-fraud/#comment-3977), and “climategate” was clearly visible as soon as you typed “cl” — though it was intermittent for a few days. The evidence for this claim? “Climategate” happened to be a Google Hot Trend — which begs the question why a particularly determined employee would have suppressed it in the search box but not in a list of trends highlighted by Google itself! Again, Occam’s Razor.
Incidentally, Google also responded to this in its Search help forum, explaining why emerging trends on breaking news issues (often with political implications) appear intermittently in the suggest box:
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Web+Search/thread?hl=en&tid=25112ee0c29cbd01
That forum, and others (http://www.google.com/support/?hl=en) are actually a pretty good place to get a response to your questions and concerns. Or, you can feel free to e-mail me directly (patrick dot ruffini – at – that google email service dot com) to flag it, or find me on Twitter (@PatrickRuffini).
Ok Patrick, I have a few questions...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 3:02PM EST (link)First, tell me where I said Google singled out BigGovernment?
Second, tell me how the google phishing filter works. Maybe if Google opened up their practices to the public as they wish others to do, by force of government, I would have to speculate at all as to why BG.com got hit by this.
Third, are you saying that having a bad certificate and having google recognize that is that same as the error that caused sites with the tweetmeme applet embedded to be flagged as phishing?
Fourth, what of the reports that statsistats.com doesn’t actually host any malware of any kind? Is google’s product really that bad that you can’t even trust the software to do it’s job?
Lastly, what is your opinion on Google’s duplicitous stance wrt Net Neutrality?
After all, that was the entire purpose of writing this.
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Here are your responses...
Patrick Ruffini Wednesday, December 30th at 3:45PM EST (link)“First, tell me where I said Google singled out BigGovernment?”
Possibly when you said that “I think the the real reason is that Google didn’t like the bad publicity BigGovernment was putting out on their internet.”
“Second, tell me how the google phishing filter works. Maybe if Google opened up their practices to the public as they wish others to do, by force of government, I would have to speculate at all as to why BG.com got hit by this.”
Where does Google advocate that others disclose proprietary or confidential information by force of government? Link?
“Third, are you saying that having a bad certificate and having google recognize that is that same as the error that caused sites with the tweetmeme applet embedded to be flagged as phishing?”
That was a warning that appeared in Chrome and no other browser. This is a warning that appears in Chrome and no other browser. Since seeing things in Chrome only is reason enough to ascribe malicious intent to Google, it’s a valid comparison.
“Fourth, what of the reports that statsistats.com doesn’t actually host any malware of any kind? Is google’s product really that bad that you can’t even trust the software to do it’s job?”
So we’re going from Google censoring BigGovernment.com to its product not working? Which is it? If the product doesn’t work, doesn’t that pretty much rule out human censorship as an argument?
“Lastly, what is your opinion on Google’s duplicitous stance wrt Net Neutrality?”
I don’t see what an attempt to tie Google to political monkeying with its phishing filter has anything whatsoever to do with net neutrality.
Ok, so you never clicked on the link to BG.com.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 3:49PM EST (link)That’s all I needed to know really. You didn’t like my delivery method so you didn’t read what I linked to. Since you didn’t do that you don’t see the irony in the story I told. That’s cool.
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FYI
Patrick Ruffini Wednesday, December 30th at 7:12PM EST (link)This piece discusses the origins of the Tweetmeme attack, and why so many sites were spammed, and could have been related to ad server issue Erick blogged about earlier.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/spywaresucks/archive/2009/12/29/1748041.aspx
Thanks Patrick, that is interesting...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 7:28PM EST (link)So tweetmeme.com uses Openx which needs a patch in order to stop ads from being exploited. That makes total sense. But then, this part does create another question:
If only Google ads were on tweetmeme.com, does that mean that Google ads were the culprit that caused these multiple sites to end up being blocked by Google software?
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WOW 4 years and THIS is what brings you out?...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 3:53PM EST (link)WE Conservatives have watched with disgust at some of the issues that have arisen over at google and a contributor here QUESTIONS something that seems out of place and THIS DIARY out of the THOUSANDS of diaries on this site brings you out to speak? Does google PAY YOU?
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Jaded, actually Google does pay Patrick....
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 3:55PM EST (link)But he is just expressing his opinions on this, so that shouldn’t matter.
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That was a pretty good guess then wasn't it?....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 5:18PM EST (link)I was just being snarky but he does get paid by google that is too much because too me Aaron it does matter due to the fact that in 4 years time Patrick Ruffini has NOT found ANYTHING of interest on this site to add to? NEVER? REALLY? come on!
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Ummm....
Patrick Ruffini Wednesday, December 30th at 7:09PM EST (link)I particularly feel the need to defend my allegiance to the site or my friendship to its proprietors to you, save to say that I was among the first wave of front pagers here in 2005 and my activity log prior to the WordPress switch was wiped out.
D'oh...
Patrick Ruffini Wednesday, December 30th at 7:10PM EST (link)I *don’t* particularly feel the need… Getting late.
I know who you are Patrick....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 8:33PM EST (link)I am not asking you nor do I expect you to explain yourself however it is interesting STILL that you just now found something to discuss and you get paid by google….think about it.
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Google censorship?
ericathunderpaws (Diary) Wednesday, December 30th at 9:38PM EST (link)There have been a series of articles on RedState about Google shenanigans, which is why I’m asking for advice. If you don’t want to post my comments here, I hope you will consider emailing me a private reply.
I have a Blogspot website: http://jeffersonsrebels.blogspot.com. My website is conservative, so I focus a lot on Obama. When I search for my articles and graphic illustrations on Google, everything shows up in my results list, whether text or image, WITH THE EXCEPTION of one series of three graphics. When I search for those graphics, my keywords exactly match the images, but still they never appear in the results. They should appear at the top. The only way to get to the images is to follow a text link to the site. You can view the images here: (http://jeffersonsrebels.blogspot.com/2009/11/quo-warranto-to-remove-obama.html). If you do a test image search, you won’t find them.
All my other graphics regarding Obama appear on the search results page.
Is my imagination running away with me? This is beginning to seem suspicious. Is it possible that someone at Google has singled out these images for censorship in their search engine? If so, how do they do it? And if they do, is there anything I can do about it?
I fully understand that you may not approve of the ideas behind my graphics, but I sense that you certainly disapprove of censorship.
Can you advise me?